PROGESTERONE VS ESTROGEN (more)
Jim Draper
FREEDOM CREAM
There are many important reasons why women of all ages will want to use our
natural progesterone cream. Young women, as well as pre and post menopause
aged women will appreciate the many benefits of natural progesterone that
one can get from our Freedom Cream; protection agains breast cancer; the
rebuilding of bone tissue; losing weight more easily; increased energy
level; increased libido; anti-wrinkle skin care, and many others,
and...with
no side effects!
In the next 20 years, approximately forty million women will enter
menopause. Approximately 90% of all women in the United States have some
type of menstrual complaint. One in three women suffer from osteoporosis,
and one in four will have a fractured bone sometime in their lifetime.
Ladies, how do you like those odds?..And things are getting worse-not
better! Higher Ideals has a product that is needed, and once educated
about,
will be preferred by millions of these women. Why?
Dr. Betty Kamen cites over 400 reasons why women would want to use natural
progesterone, and why the most desirable way to get it is transdermally
(through skin absorption) in a cream like our Freedom Cream. "I am an
advocate of using transdermally-applied natural progesterone-along with
specific food supplements-as an alternative to more traditional hormone
treatments", Dr. Kamen says in her book "Hormone Replacement Therapy-Yes or
No". Women have traditionally used estrogen supplements to protect against
osteoporosis and heart disease.
Estrogen and synthetic progesterone called progestins, are prescribed by
millions. The most popular drug prescribed for women is Premarin. As the
name indicates, Premarin comes from pregnant mare urine. How many women do
you think realize the source of their estrogen supplement? Because estrogen
supplements or Estrogen Replacement Therapy (ERT) have been shown to have a
potential for cancer, and progesterone tends to prevent cancer, many
doctors, like Dr. John Lee says, "It is malpractice if progesterone is not
used with ERT." Provera is another drug that is frequently prescribed, but
it is made of synthetic progesterone or progestins. "All progestins are
synthetic hormones", Dr. Kamen says in her book, "and your body knows the
difference."
Why not take a much more natural course and use a natural progesterone
cream
like Higher Ideals' Freedom Cream? This course of action makes a lot more
sense, especially knowing that natural progesterone cream has been
clinically proven by Dr. John Lee and many other doctors to be safe, with
no
side effects. Of paramount importance is the fact that our cream has been
developed based on the research done in Dr. Kamen's book and contains
exclusive ingredients like Emu Oil and Ginkgo Biloba to enhance absorption
and circulation. Our special formulation of ingredients provides a broader
range of protection for you and it stands above the rest, making Freedom
Cream the premier cream of its class.
Ingredients: Aloe Vera, Emu Oil, Natural Progesterone, Soybean Oil, Wild
Yam, Siberian Ginseng, Black Cohosh, Ginkgo Biloba, Chamomile, Phenoxyethyl
Paraben, Undeclyenolyl PEG-5 Paraben.
#1190-Freedom Cream
2 Ounce Jar
Higher Ideals Member Wholesale Price-$12.00
Suggested Use: Apply daily to the body on sensitive areas of the skin
(inner
thighs, chest, face, etc.) for better absorption.
To order and automatically become a member of HIGHER IDEALS call:
1-800-636-8644
JIM DRAPER
Higher Ideals
Wal-Mart of nutritional MLM companies
Watkins
Jim Draper <ji...@ziplink.net> wrote in article
<01bbf590$8413b380$ae930fce@708661617>...
Gloria snipped to get to this issue:
Provera:
> it is made of synthetic progesterone or progestins. "All proges
tins are synthetic hormones", Dr. Kamen says in her book, "and
your body knows the difference."
> Why not take a much more natural course and use a natural
progesterone cream like Higher Ideals' Freedom Cream? >
Gloria: But "Natural Progesterone" is pharmaceutical synthetic
progesterone probably made from stigmasterol, inexpensive soy
-bean oil constituents. It's just a lower dose to be allowed by the
FDA to be sold over the counter. It does bypass the liver. But I've
noticed the women on alt.support.menopause who get lasting re
sults are using the higher % creams which require a prescription.
Like 7 to 10 %. Any comments?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOve and later, glOria (LOve is like a circle, eternal in effects.)
Ellen Mizzell
Bob Tyndall (bob...@ultranet.ca) wrote:
: Ellen Mizzel
:
: Where are you now ???
:
Now then, little Bobby-T, let's see if we can interpret this inarticulate cry.
Here is my guess: now that Della has encouraged this particular insect to
expand his ad, so that he is no longer simply murdering the English language
but has moved on to claiming that his cream can protect women against
breast cancer, "rebuild bone", et cetera, you're calling my attention to
the fact in the hope that I will do to him as I did unto you, i.e., report him
to the FDA for health fraud.
Is that why you posted your message, little Bobby-T? Worried lest the
competition might get away with it?
You really are a squirt, aren't you?
Ellen Mizzell
Bob Tyndall
Ellen Mizzel
Where are you now ???
>it is made of synthetic progesterone or progestins. "All progestins are
>synthetic hormones", Dr. Kamen says in her book, "and your body knows the
>difference."
>
>Why not take a much more natural course and use a natural progesterone
>cream
>like Higher Ideals' Freedom Cream? This course of action makes a lot more
>sense, especially knowing that natural progesterone cream has been
>clinically proven by Dr. John Lee and many other doctors to be safe, with
>no
>side effects. Of paramount importance is the fact that our cream has been
>developed based on the research done in Dr. Kamen's book and contains
>exclusive ingredients like Emu Oil and Ginkgo Biloba to enhance absorption
>and circulation. Our special formulation of ingredients provides a broader
>range of protection for you and it stands above the rest, making Freedom
>Cream the premier cream of its class.
>
>Ingredients: Aloe Vera, Emu Oil, Natural Progesterone, Soybean Oil, Wild
>Yam, Siberian Ginseng, Black Cohosh, Ginkgo Biloba, Chamomile, Phenoxyethyl
>Paraben, Undeclyenolyl PEG-5 Paraben.
>
>#1190-Freedom Cream
>2 Ounce Jar
>
>Higher Ideals Member Wholesale Price-$12.00
>
>Suggested Use: Apply daily to the body on sensitive areas of the skin
>(inner
>thighs, chest, face, etc.) for better absorption.
>
>
>To order and automatically become a member of HIGHER IDEALS call:
> 1-800-636-8644
>
>JIM DRAPER
>Higher Ideals
>Wal-Mart of nutritional MLM companies
Http://www.ultranet.ca/neways/endau.htm
Bob Tyndall
Fax on demand 714-635-2000 Doc. #6355
Listen to a conference call
Mondays , 7,8,9,10 & 11 Eastern time
1-800-626-9343
ni...@aol.com
In article <01bbf590$8413b380$ae930fce@708661617>, "Jim Draper"
<ji...@ziplink.net> writes:
--Snip--
> The most popular drug prescribed for women is Premarin. As the
>name indicates, Premarin comes from pregnant mare urine. How many women
do
>you think realize the source of their estrogen supplement? ---Snip--- Of
paramount >importance is the fact that our cream has been
>developed based on the research done in Dr. Kamen's book
Really ?? The research was done in her book??
> and contains
>exclusive ingredients like Emu Oil
ROFL LOL Emu Oil??? An emu is an ostrich-like bird. Do you have to
kill the birds to get the oil? How many birds do you squeeze to get a
quart of oil? I love emus. Give me premarin!
>Ingredients: Aloe Vera, Emu Oil, Natural Progesterone, Soybean Oil, Wild
>Yam, Siberian Ginseng, Black Cohosh, Ginkgo Biloba, Chamomile,
Phenoxyethyl
>Paraben, Undeclyenolyl PEG-5 Paraben.
How much progesterone is in an ounce of your cream??? Pro-Gest has 400 mg
per ounce. So do many of the others. How much does yours have?
>#1190-Freedom Cream
>2 Ounce Jar
>Higher Ideals Member Wholesale Price-$12.00
Very good price - but is it a good deal? How much progesterone per ounce?
>To order and automatically become a member of HIGHER IDEALS call:
> 1-800-636-8644
What's this member business about? Does it cost anything to be a member?
Is there a contract? See I left your phone number in.
Cheryl.
Ni...@AOL.com (Cheryl A. Snider)
Joe Lastoria
Hi Ellen,
Is putting people down your strong point? Why would you report
Bobby-T, or even that other person to the FDA? People on this list
sometimes make exaggerated claims, however, their sources for the
information are readily available.
I agree that this is NOT the place for 'hype' and 'exaggeration',
however to each their own. Sometimes even these types of information
will get people to research it further and allow them to decide for
themselves what IS or ISN'T worth trying.
You'd be surprised what works for some people.
Take Care,
Joe :)
On 29 Dec 1996 22:21:58 -0000, el...@tictac.demon.co.uk (Ellen
Mizzell) wrote:
>Bob Tyndall (bob...@ultranet.ca) wrote:
>: Ellen Mizzel
>:
>: Where are you now ???
>:
>
>Now then, little Bobby-T, let's see if we can interpret this inarticulate cry.
>
>Here is my guess: now that Della has encouraged this particular insect to
>expand his ad, so that he is no longer simply murdering the English language
>but has moved on to claiming that his cream can protect women against
>breast cancer, "rebuild bone", et cetera, you're calling my attention to
>the fact in the hope that I will do to him as I did unto you, i.e., report him
>to the FDA for health fraud.
>
>Is that why you posted your message, little Bobby-T? Worried lest the
>competition might get away with it?
>
>You really are a squirt, aren't you?
>
>Ellen Mizzell
>
=================================================================
The Original HEALTH & VITALITY ONLINE has returned
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ultranet.ca/HealthWAVES
=================================================================
Bob Tyndall
>Bob Tyndall (bob...@ultranet.ca) wrote:
>: Ellen Mizzel
>:
>: Where are you now ???
>:
>
>Now then, little Bobby-T, let's see if we can interpret this inarticulate cry.
>
>Here is my guess: now that Della has encouraged this particular insect to
>expand his ad, so that he is no longer simply murdering the English language
>but has moved on to claiming that his cream can protect women against
>breast cancer, "rebuild bone", et cetera, you're calling my attention to
>the fact in the hope that I will do to him as I did unto you, i.e., report him
>to the FDA for health fraud.
>
>Is that why you posted your message, little Bobby-T? Worried lest the
>competition might get away with it?
>
>You really are a squirt, aren't you?
>
>Ellen Mizzell
>
Dear Ellen
The difference between me and you is that I have references to back up
my product. If you look back a few days you'll find them. I notice you
conveniently failed to mention that.
I've come across others like you on mailing lists and forums. You have
absolutly nothing to say of any value. Your only goal seems to be to
slander and cririsize any one with an idea that you don't agree with.
I don't know what your problem is and I really don't care. What you
need to do is grow up.
Bob
Morley
Ellen's only "problem" is with people who try to push their wares on ngs
and pretend they're doing everyone a favour, when the claims for that
product verge on hyperbole. I sympathise with her dislike of this method
of selling. If you really believe Ellen has nothing to say of any value,
I can only believe you haven't spent much time reading this ng. I can
absolutely assure you her background is more informed than you suggest.
At the very most post an url, at the very least, admit you've been
sussed, fold your tent and steal quietly away into the night. Morley.
nor...@mindspring.com
Okay, if Jim Draper is going to insist on posting his advertising here,
let's get some facts. Exactly how many milligrams of progesterone are in
the 2 ounce jar of Freedom Cream? Draper's post was long, but less than
fully informative. The milligram dosage is critical information without
which no woman should be buying this stuff.
Norris
> #1190-Freedom Cream
> 2 Ounce Jar
>
> Higher Ideals Member Wholesale Price-$12.00
>
> Suggested Use: Apply daily to the body on sensitive areas of the skin
> (inner
> thighs, chest, face, etc.) for better absorption.
>
>
> To order and automatically become a member of HIGHER IDEALS call:
> 1-800-636-8644
>
mro...@wwdc.com
bob...@ultranet.ca (Bob Tyndall) wrote:
>The difference between me and you is that I have references to back up
>my product. If you look back a few days you'll find them. I notice you
>conveniently failed to mention that.
I am interested in your information, and references. But not the gd
advertising.
What I have seen under your name is, to my understanding, highly
questionable.
There is a very limited body of evidience that I am aware of which
suggests that Provera, an oral synthetic progestin, may be useful in
alleviating hot-flashes and maintaining bone density in women
unwilling or unable to take estrogen. The dose used is very high,
20mg/day. Limited means a few dozen patients under relatively
uncontrolled circumstances. This against the many thousands of women
followed on estrogen under just about every protocol imaginable.
I have seen nothing credible with regards to OTC progesterone creams.
One presecription product does deliver a progestin, norethindrone,
transdermally. In amounts sufficient for endometrial protection in
women using an estrogen. So it is certainly plausible that a progestin
creame may offer some benefit.
On the other hand.......
Where hot flashes are concerned, observed placebo effects can be
large. Up to 30% of women given placebo in randomized double blind
protocols report some impact on their flushing. So, regardless of the
efficacy of your product, you will have a few satisfied customers, at
least initially.
But you can't fool bones. The placebo group always loses some over
time.
Women interested in trying progesterone creames ought to do so with a
little professional help. Your local pharmacist is a good place to
start, if you dont need the script.
>I've come across others like you on mailing lists and forums. You have
>absolutly nothing to say of any value. Your only goal seems to be to
>slander and cririsize any one with an idea that you don't agree with.
>I don't know what your problem is and I really don't care. What you
>need to do is grow up.
You have not been around here long enough to say this. And, you are
wrong.
SPAM=SCAM. Got something to say then say it. Keep the propaganda to
yourself.
Mark.
>Bob
Bob;
what would be nice is if you got your spamming ass the hell out of
here.
Bob Tyndall
On Wed, 01 Jan 1997 11:37:16 GMT, mro...@wwdc.com wrote:
>bob...@ultranet.ca (Bob Tyndall) wrote:
>
>>The difference between me and you is that I have references to back up
>>my product. If you look back a few days you'll find them. I notice you
>>conveniently failed to mention that.
>
>I am interested in your information, and references. But not the gd
>advertising.
>
Hi Mark
Here are the references you asked for.
References
1.John R. Lee, MD. Warner Books, May, 1996.
2.Johnson, Blankenschtein and Langer, 1995, "Permeation of Steroids
Through Human Skin." Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Vol. 84, No.
9, Sept. 1995. Pages 1144-1146.
3.Albright, F. 1936. Studies in ovarian function III: the menopause.
Endocrinology 20:24
4.Reyes, F.L., J.S. Winter, and C. Paiman. 1977. Pituitary ovarian
relationships preceding the menopause: a cross-sectional study of
serum follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, prolactin,
estradiol and progesterone levels. American Journal of Obstetrics and
Gynecology 129:557-64
5.Prior, J.C. 1990. Progesterone as a bone-trophic hormone. Endocr Rev
11:386-98
6.Coronary Drug Project Research Group. 1973. Coronary drug project:
findings leading to the discontinuation of the 2.5 mg/day estrogen
group. Journal of the American Medical Association 226:652-57
7.Lipsett, M.P. Steroid hormones, in Reproductive Endocrinology,
Physiology, and Clinical Management. Yen, S.S.C., and R.B. Jaffe, eds.
Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Co., 1978:80
8.Hileman, Beth. 1994. Reproductive estrogens linked to reproductive
abnormalities, cancer. Chemical and Engineering News, January 31:
19-23.
9.Weiss, Rick. 1994. Estrogen in the environment. The Washington Post,
January 25: 10-13.
10.Raloff, J. 1994. The gender benders. Science News 145, January 8:
24-27.
11.History of progesterone as described by Goodman & Gilman. The
Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. 6th edition, 1980: chapter 61
(Estrogens and Progestins: 1420), 1085-1171
12.Campbell, B.C., and P.T. Ellison. 1992. Menstrual variation in
salivary testosterone among regularly cycling women. Horm Res
37:132-36.
13.Hargrove, J.T., W.S. Maxson, A.C. Wentz, and L.S. Burnett. 1989.
Menopausal hormone replacement therapy with continuous daily oral
micronized estradiol and progesterone. Obstetrics & Gynecology
71:606-12
14.Stevenson, J.C., K.F. Ganger, et al. 1990. Effects of transdermal
versus oral hormone replacement therapy on bone density in spine and
proximal femur in postmenopausal women. Lancet 336:265-26.
15.Ottoson, U.B., B.G. Johansson, and B. von Schoultz. 1985.
Subtractions of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol during estrogen
replacement therapy: a comparison between progestogens and natural
progesterone. American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology
151:746-50.
16.Gambrell, R.D. 1982. The menopause: benefits and risks of
estrogen-progestogen replacement therapy. Fertil Steril 37: 457-74.
17.Scientific American Medicine, updated 1992. New York: Scientific
American, chapter 15 (X):9.
18.Bergkvist, L., H.O. Adami, I. Persson, R. Hoover, and C. Schairer.
1989. The risk of breast cancer after estrogen and estrogen-progestin
replacement. New England Journal of Medicine 321:293-97.
19.Leary, Warren E. 1995. Progesterone may play major role in the
prevention of nerve disease. New York Times, June 27, C3.
20.Braverman, Eric. 1991. Natural estrogen and progesterone research
indicates health benefits of natural vs. Synthetic hormones. Total
Health 13, no. 5 (October): 55.
21.Prior, J.C., Y. M. Vigna, and N. Alojado. 1991. Progesterone and
the prevention of osteoporosis, Canadian Journal of
Obstetrics/Gynecology & Women's Health Care 3:178-84.
22.Hammond, C.B., F.R. Jelvsek, K.L. Lee, W.T. Creasman, and R.T.
Parker. 1979. Effects of long-term estrogen replacement therapy. I.
Metabolic effects. American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology
133:525-36.
23.Lee, J.R. M.D., 1990. Osteoporosis reversal: the role of
progesterone. Intern Clin Nutr Rev 10:384-91.
24.Lee, J.R. M.D., 1990. Osteoporosis reversal with transdermal
progesterone (letter). Lancet 336:1327.
25.Lee, J.R. M.D., 1991. Is natural progesterone the missing link in
osteoporosis prevention and treatment? Medical Hypotheses 35:316-18.
26.Lee, John R., M.D., 1994, Slowing the Aging Process with Natural
Progesterone, BLL Publishing, California, USA, p. 12.
27.Nolan, Charles R., M.D. et al. 1994. Aluminum and lead absorption
from dietary sources in women ingesting calcium citrate. Southern
Medical Journal. September, 87(9):894-98.
28.Lees, B., T. Molleson, T.R. Arnett, and J.C. Stevenson. 1993.
Differences in proximal femur density over two centuries. Lancet
341:673-75.
29.Wilson, P.W.F., R. J. Garrison, and W.P. Castelli. 1985.
Post-menopausal estrogen use, cigarette smoking, and cardiovascular
morbidity in women over 50. New England Journal of Medicine
313:1038-43.
30.Tribble, D.L., and E. Frank. 1994. Dietary antioxidants, cancer,
and atherosclerotic heart disease. W J Med161:605-12.
31.Henderson, B.E., R.K. Ross, M.C. Pike, and J.T. Casagrande. 1982.
Endogenous hormones as a major factor in human cancer. Cancer Research
42:3232-39.
Bob Tyndall
Bob Tyndall
Happy New Year
With respect to all of the people who have taken offence with one ad
that I posted , I apologize. With respect to Progesterone itself , I
do not apologize. The product works. There are numerous references to
support that fact.
For Progesterone to be effective, it needs to be at least 2% per
ounce, which is the equivalent about 450mg.
From what I've seen there are a few that meet that criteria.
Della Noche
Hi, Mark! I'm not sure why you're discussing progestins alone rather
than progesterone USP as compared to progestins.
I see that you are aware of that these are different substances.
However, problems do arise in some discussions re progesterone USP v.
progestins as many doctors, text books and journals use the words
"progesterone" and "progestin" interchangeably! I tend to use USP after
"progesterone" to indicate that I'm speaking of progesterone
specifically. However, since USP refers to the United States
Pharmaceopia (sp?), this is awkward in international forums.
I guess you are aware that in the United States progesterone USP cream
can be sold without a prescription up to a strength of 3%. For stronger
creams a prescription is required, with the most common prescriptions
apparently being for a 10% strength.
There have several studies in the last two years that indicate 200 mgs.
of oral progesterone USP are as or more effective than the compared
progestin (most likely Provera, don't remember exactly) for uterine
protection.
As I understand it, progesterone USP transdermal doses have an equivalent
effect at one-tenth of the oral doses due to the liver metabolizing of
the oral doses. So about 20 mgs. transdermally should have the same
effect, I believe, as the 200 oral mgs. used in the studies.
I'm being cautious because I know this is a new area for all of us and
we're still learning.
Many of us are being prescribed 200 *transdermal* mgs. daily of
progesterone cream. This is way too high for me and I find 25 to 50
transdermal mgs. far more comfortable. As I noticed this before reading
about the difference in oral and transdermal doses, I tend to believe the
one-tenth estimate re equivalencies.
I believe that 25 mgs. a day is provided by some OTC creams if one
follows the manufacturers' directions.
As studies so far seem to indicate that progesterone USP does NOT have
the many dangerous side-effects of the progestins and does have so many
other benefits emotionally and physically, it's really hard to justify
the use of a progestin these days.
How many women go to doctors *hoping to get a Provera prescription? In
contrast many are going to doctors hoping to get progesterone USP
prescriptions. I believe that we will over time find a few drawbacks
associated with higher doses of progesterone USP - cramping has already
been noted by many women - but I doubt that we'll see anything like the
problems associated with Provera. The emotional improvements (as
contrasted to the well-known Provera depression), the increased libido,
etc. have already made progesterone USP a popular choice with many women.
mro...@wwdc.com wrote:
>bob...@ultranet.ca (Bob Tyndall) wrote:
snip
>There is a very limited body of evidience that I am aware of which
>suggests that Provera, an oral synthetic progestin, may be useful in
>alleviating hot-flashes and maintaining bone density in women
>unwilling or unable to take estrogen. The dose used is very high,
>20mg/day.
Yikes!
>Limited means a few dozen patients under relatively
>uncontrolled circumstances. This against the many thousands of women
>followed on estrogen under just about every protocol imaginable.
>
>I have seen nothing credible with regards to OTC progesterone creams.
The only difference between prescription and OTC progesterone USP
creams is the concentration of the progesterone USP. One could obtain
fairly high levels of progesterone USP with the OTC creams if money is no
object (the prescription creams are far less expensive per milligram
right now) and one is willing to use a lot of the OTC cream.
>
>One presecription product does deliver a progestin, norethindrone,
>transdermally. In amounts sufficient for endometrial protection in
>women using an estrogen. So it is certainly plausible that a progestin
>creame may offer some benefit.
I'll try to find some citations for you re transdermal progesterone
administration v. oral.
>
>On the other hand.......
>
>Where hot flashes are concerned, observed placebo effects can be
>large. Up to 30% of women given placebo in randomized double blind
>protocols report some impact on their flushing.
I'd be interested in reading these if you have the citations handy. I
read some old (as in 1935, 1936!!) studies saying that placebos were as
almost as effective as conjugated equine estrogens. Turned out the
"placebo" in both studies was Vitamin E!! Isn't that wild?!?
There was one study done in the '50's where the "placebo" had truly
dramatic effects. I *really* want to know what this substance is. I'm
trying to find the original text rather than the summary I found in one
of Utian's books, but it was a British study and I'm having trouble
finding it.
> So, regardless of the
>efficacy of your product, you will have a few satisfied customers, at
>least initially.
>
>But you can't fool bones. The placebo group always loses some over
>time.
Bone mass was gained by women athletes using a combination of some
estrogen and progesterone USP. I believe that most estrogens studied
maintain bone mass but do not increase it. This is an area that needs
more study.
>
>Women interested in trying progesterone creames ought to do so with a
>little professional help. Your local pharmacist is a good place to
>start, if you dont need the script.
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting that women ask their
local pharmacists make a cream for them at the 3% OTC level? This is a
very interesting idea. Hmm. I think I like this idea. Yes, I do.
snip
>Mark.
Mark, progesterone USP is of the best developments in meno and PMS
treatments to come along in a long, long time. I think if you read the
studies re progesterone USP you'll find that we are at the beginning of a
revolutionary change that will improve the lives of millions of women
(and their families ;-) ).
These are truly exciting times in this field!
dn
doh...@aol.com
In article <19961230013...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ni...@aol.com
writes:
>ROFL LOL Emu Oil??? An emu is an ostrich-like bird. Do you have to
>kill the birds to get the oil? How many birds do you squeeze to get a
>quart of oil? I love emus. Give me premarin!
You love birds but hate horses??? These pregnant mares have to stand in
their own stall all day - throughout their pregnancy and be "hooked-up" so
you can receive their precious urine. ( you thought maybe someone ran
around beside them all day long with a bag?) Their health is shoddy and of
course when the foals are born they are not in the best of health so they
"do away" with their offsprings. If the mare is in good enough health she
is immediately impregnated so she can continue her ungodly cycle. When the
farmer receives his "loaner" mare back she is usually in such bad shape
they have to do away with them.
There are a lot of "natural " herbs and foods out there that are much
better for you and don't offer the side-effects that many chemical drugs
do...and they're cheaper too.
Watkins
Dear Della,
I rarely print out posts but this one of yours I am! THANKS!
Sadly though I just ran out of computer printer paper.
I also apologize for thinking you have very long posts. Those
were evil thoughts. You are a real asset to this ng.
Does anyone know the source(s) for USP progesterone? I
either forgot or never knew the source for my Cycrin=Provera.
Do you know either of these?