the ophelia update...(long)
Ophelia86
he talked to NYC today because the secretary told me. But he's so damn busy
and I'm cranky with him anyway. This connection is the last one with him.
Apres lui, I bail.
Listen to what he did. Remember my counselor search? Well I met with this
woman once in his office and decided that I didn't want to work with her. She
was way more an 'insider' than I was comfortable with, plus, she wouldn't
assure me that she would be available to me post relinquishment as a regular
client. She wouldn't tell me her fee schedule, etc., and I had made it clear
to the both of them that I was looking for long term... Anyway, I decided to
go back to my nifty counselor at loyola, who I *really* liked, a sensible
woman. They decided I was technically still a student, so my first appt's next
week. (same day as my birthday party at the howlin' wolf for the frank black
show--ya'll come down!) Anyway, I left that be, thought it was done... I told
the lawya why I didn't like her... ANYWAY, he let this woman talk to the apap
in NYC before she talked to me! I mean told her all the dirt on me about my
dead cat and shit. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT? I treated it as a pre-therapy
session-I told her about what my issues were, recent losses, etc... She
totally betrayed patient-client confidentiality. She said that it would be
partly her role to prepare a med info sheet on me for apaps and I told her
directly at that point that I was *not* comfortable with her doing that because
I wasn't sure that I would work with her. Anyway, relevant med info *wasn't
shared...* Pamom said her dad had died of skin cancer and I said, "we have
melanoma on my side too" nothing like that was even asked of me! Ugh. So I
have yet to talk to him, but I'm going to read him the riot act.
I don't know what's going on with the woman herself, I presume that she's
backing out and he's too chicken shit to call me right away and just deal with
it. Or maybe not, she is interested, but he's too busy.
And the truth is, much as I liked her, she isn't an ideal situation. If it
were just me, I'd feel alot better about it, but I have to present a lovely
little situation to Joe that he'd be an ass to fight. The single thing gives
him that...
So my lawya had these people, cousins of people he worked with before. They
had contacted him, he told them about me... So I talked to the woman yesterday
on the phone to arrange a meeting. They live out of town but not too far.
Know what she told me? That she didn't have long to talk on the phone because
her husband was out of town so she's going to spend the night at a friend's
house... I was nice, but in my head I was screaming...."you're THIRTY-EIGHT
YEARS OLD. sleep in YOUR OWN house!"
And I'm beating my head against the wall, why are these my choices? The NY
woman wasn't some *feminazi* lunatic, she was a strong woman, though. My other
choice is a mouse? squeak? What are you gonna do, lady, when the kid's pissed
off and yells at you? Hide? Cower? ugh. So I was so nice, I'm having
coffee with them on Thursday, unless I can get out of it. Maybe it's time for
a pregnancy illness or something.
ugh.
So today, at my lawya's urging, I went to see another apap lawya. To "keep my
options open." I brought my mom. It was about time she saw how bizarre this
process is. We had fun dissing people, but it did get to her. I said, "see
why I'm at your house twitching after seeing a lawyer?" She got it. It's so
surreal, looking at these people's lives on display.
So she says, "you like goofy intellectuals?" I said, " I LOVE goofy
intellectuals!"
Man, are they goofy. Law professors, have a 7 yo adopted daughter, were here,
moved, but looked like just the kind of warm and silly and smart and insightful
kinda people I think my kid would thrive with. Kinda hippy, except they got
good art, you know? Grounded. Like I picture Marley, 'cept liking sprogs.
So they git bumped to the top of the list. It'll take a day or so to hunt them
down and see what's up. The lawya was friends with them when they were in
town, and her eyes lit up when she saw we really liked them.
(This lawya, BTW, kinda looks like a nun, bowl cut, no makeup, drab suit...
maybe she was a nun. I'm used to dealing with them so it doesn't bother me. I
liked her. She didn't hover at all. And adoption is part of her practice but
not her specialty--another plus. She does family mediations and stuff too.
I'd love to do this sans folk whose bread and butter is adoption.)
So I called my lawya. Everytime we talk now he listens to me forever and
chuckles. He really likes me, I entertain him. Know what he told me? He said
that if I were a 'ditzy babe' he wouldn't have time for me. He doesn't do
adoptions really anymore, he makes alot of money doing vague lawya stuff.
'Cept now he lets me call him at home on his lunch so he can chuckle at my
rants and character assessments... Not just an advocate, a friend. I lucked
out.
Anyway, that's where it stands. I sure am glad I have you guys to bounce this
all off of, and I really do appreciate the insights I get. It's like a world
o' triad-folk pulling for me and the kids. It's great.
So thanks. I keep saying that but I mean it.
ophelia
trying not to get emotionally involved, or hover over the phone...
Jackie C
wrote:
> ANYWAY, he let this woman talk to the apap
>in NYC before she talked to me! I mean told her all the dirt on me about my
>dead cat and shit.
I find this horrible.. I find this just plain horrible..
> CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT? I treated it as a pre-therapy
>session-I told her about what my issues were, recent losses, etc... She
>totally betrayed patient-client confidentiality.
This must be stressing you no end..
> She said that it would be
>partly her role to prepare a med info sheet on me for apaps and I told her
>directly at that point that I was *not* comfortable with her doing that because
>I wasn't sure that I would work with her.
So this woman is working in the adoption triangle..
She is not into being your therapist..
And you are smart you sorted this.. What I worry and wonder about is..
How many potential bmoms and dads.. do not..
Thank you for sharing this.. Ophelia..
Food for thought..
Jackie C
Morra
>
> Ok, It's Tuesday, and the damn apap lawya hasn't called me back anyway. I know
> he talked to NYC today because the secretary told me. But he's so damn busy
> and I'm cranky with him anyway. This connection is the last one with him.
> Apres lui, I bail.
>
> Listen to what he did. Remember my counselor search? Well I met with this
> woman once in his office and decided that I didn't want to work with her. She
> was way more an 'insider' than I was comfortable with, plus, she wouldn't
> assure me that she would be available to me post relinquishment as a regular
> client. She wouldn't tell me her fee schedule, etc., and I had made it clear
> to the both of them that I was looking for long term... Anyway, I decided to
> go back to my nifty counselor at loyola, who I *really* liked, a sensible
> woman. They decided I was technically still a student, so my first appt's next
> week. (same day as my birthday party at the howlin' wolf for the frank black
> show--ya'll come down!)
happy b'day and i'm so glad to hear that you are going to be seeing
someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the outcome of this birth.
Anyway, I left that be, thought it was done... I told
> the lawya why I didn't like her... ANYWAY, he let this woman talk to the apap
> in NYC before she talked to me! I mean told her all the dirt on me about my
> dead cat and shit. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?
ophelia, the lawyer and his shrink for hire are not working for you.
they are working for the client who pays them, the NYC woman.
they are, however, working ON you.
you have something they really really want, something they stand to
make a big profit from.
don't you see, the minute you sign, it's OVER.
you're outta there, and so is lily, and for good..
run, ophelia....run.
I treated it as a pre-therapy
> session-I told her about what my issues were, recent losses, etc... She
> totally betrayed patient-client confidentiality.
you are not her client. the apap is the client. can't you see they are
using you??
ophelia, i am sorry to be so harsh. what i am saying is harsh, i know
it. i am not angry with you. i am terrified for you and your daughter.
please try to understand.
i would hate to witness a disaster.
thinking of you,
barbara
Lainie
As long as someone else is paying the bills, nobody in this situation is
going to be working for you. Period. Nobody is working for your kid either.
I would like to make a radical proposition here, one for which I might
likely get flamed, but here goes:
If you REALLY want to relinquish this kid, wouldn't it be wiser to ask your
friends, people that you trust, to help you find a family for your baby?
Perhaps some of the ladies here on this group might know of someone willing
to adopt your baby. For the love of Christ, Ophelia, find someone who is
not going to profit from your adoption, and ask them to help.
I mean it.
Lainie
Ophelia86
>>I agree with Barb, Ophelia.<<
I agree with Barb too! And I agree with Jackie, my concern is that other
pbparents wouldn't know better! That's why I'm gonna tell them about it in no
uncertain terms. I am also considering filing a formal complaint, but I have
to find out exactly what lisence she has first.
I mean it.
Lainie<<
Lainie, I did look around here. Alot. I put the word out. What I got was a
good lawyer.
Also, Barb, this was the last contact through that lawya I was pursuing, the
NYC woman. And I'm telling everyone what happened, so they won't get
recommended.
But a really wonderful thing happened tonight.
We met the amom and her 8yo adaughter at Chuck E cheese. I suggested it in
jest but it was great! The kids got along famously, my mom and sis showed up,
I don't think I'm going to find a better family. There are so many reasons...
The daughter's adoption is semi-closed by the bmom's choice. Terry (pamom)
said she wishes it were more open, she wished she could answer her daughter's
questions. And what a great kid! She had a hair wrap Terry (a law professor,
mind you) had done. It was just so obvious that she was wholly accepted and
loved. She goes to the *best* most progressive school in the metro area.
We talked about openness and she was really receptive, encouraging. I said, 'I
would want to update you guys on our momentous occasions--when I finally
graduate, I want you all to be happy for me too..." She was in total
agreement. She said I could call, I said I'd email. (yes, Jeanette, they're
online but through school so they don't have browsers--no newsgroups.)
Know what she told my mom? that she believed that the more people around who
loved the child, the better off the child. That's when my mom cried, she was
so touched.
Anyway, there are two 'catches.' One is that they live back in town. I'd have
to work around that with Joe.
The other is that they are already in an adoption plan with a woman in the
northwest, who's due almost at the same time. She said that they talked it
over, and would do "twins." I thought that was funny. But she said they could
do that, they were prepared (even financially.) She said her husband is a
hands-on kinda paw. I meet him Friday.
Anyway, the other pbmom has a biracial baby, and made the plan with them when
they were living in Denver. The mom adamently didn't want to place her child
in the south.... They were only supposed to be back in NO 6 months, but decided
to stay just this past week. They both have tenure here. So anyway, they
called the agency Monday and haven't heard back. So we'll all have to see how
that pans out anyway.
Oh, I forgot to say that the adaughter's bmom had worked with the same agency I
started with--the VOA-- and wouldn't give her ANY openness or even assurances
that the child would be placed immediately. So she decided to leave them like
*at* the birth, and called this other lawyer. The bmom choose this couple but
didn't want to meet them, they had one phone conversation. Anyway, that was
just 8 years ago. I felt validated in leaving them.
I talked to the NYC woman today. It doesn't look like I'll be placing with
her, but I still love her. She said that she didn't know that she could handle
openness, at least at first, that she would feel so protective. I thanked her
for her honesty! I also told her that her situation wasn't logistically ideal,
and I'd hate to have Joe use the single thing against her--none of us need to
go through that. And I told her about this couple I was meeting. She got very
serious and said, 'Amy, listen to your heart. Please find what is best for you
and that baby." She knew ultimately that it wasn't a perfect match, but really
does care that I'm okay. I'm glad I met her.
So that's where it's at. I'm meeting with the lawyas and the apaps friday. I
have a doctor's appointment tomorrow, and I have to remember to get out of that
other meeting.
You know, the kid has strange movement patterns. Andy was regular as rain,
just like his earth-sign self. Maybe this one won't wait to be a taurus.
Anyway, I was sitting next to Terry and it was ever so gently turning, pushing
down.... It doesn't usually when I'm out and about, it usually saves that for
when Frank's purring on it.
I think it was a good sign.
Andy used to do that in my belly when I called him Andersen--but when I called
him Emerson (my other top choice) he'd ignore me. So Andersen it was, and he's
a perfect Andersen. He gets really mad when someone calls him Andrew!
Ok, I'm rambling now. I just feel like you all are part of the process and
wanted to share...
ophelia
experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.
mair...@hexatron.com
lists--because you don't really "know" us either--but someone in your real
life, whom you trust and know in a real way, not from a resume that can be
faked up, or from a few meetings where the prospective adoptors are playing a
part to look like what you want. You seem to be a very bright woman, Ophelia,
but in the shark-riddden world of white infant adoption, you are in way over
your head trusting lawyers and anyone offering to pay your bills. I am not
the least bit fond of adoption agencies, but I think that you would stand a
better chance of getting treated ethically at one of the very few good ones
that do open adoptions ( and have a high prooportion of clients who end up
keeping their babies) than in thinking you have any control at all with
lawyers and their clients and their resumes. Even with a very good, agency,
you ultimately would have to trust the persons you were dealing with. No
doubt the best alternative, if you finally decide after the birth not to
raise the child, would be to go with someone with whom you already have
relationship, whom you trust. The rest is smoke and mirrors, no matter how
attractive it seems at the moment.
In article <01be3f5c$8fdfc2e0$2753...@lainie.interaccess.com>,
"Lainie" <lai...@interaccess.com> wrote:
> I agree with Barb, Ophelia.
>
> As long as someone else is paying the bills, nobody in this situation is
> going to be working for you. Period. Nobody is working for your kid either.
>
> I would like to make a radical proposition here, one for which I might
> likely get flamed, but here goes:
>
> If you REALLY want to relinquish this kid, wouldn't it be wiser to ask your
> friends, people that you trust, to help you find a family for your baby?
> Perhaps some of the ladies here on this group might know of someone willing
> to adopt your baby. For the love of Christ, Ophelia, find someone who is
> not going to profit from your adoption, and ask them to help.
>
> I mean it.
>
> Lainie
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jennifer
found my aparents? My friend told someone who knew of paparents. It is the
best way IMHO. Protect yourself, none of these people are *truly* trying to
help you. They all stand to gain in one way or another. Also I wanted to
remind you of something. I cannot remember who wrote it, but someone on
this ng got certain things in writing from a contract with a lawyer and the
aparents and it still didn't help. The aparents dropped communication with
her and there was nothing she could do. The *law* has a way of working
against the bp's.
Jen
Lainie wrote in message
<01be3f5c$8fdfc2e0$2753...@lainie.interaccess.com>...
JudithR2
ophe...@aol.comspamyuck wrote:
<snip>
>But a really wonderful thing happened tonight.
<snipped details>
Very positive compared to yesterday's news Ophelia.
You sound much more encouraged :-)
Keep us posted as this one unravels.
Judy
Jrobnett1
>If you REALLY want to relinquish this kid, wouldn't it be wiser to ask your
>friends, people that you trust, to help you find a family for your baby?
>Perhaps some of the ladies here on this group might know of someone willing
>to adopt your baby. For the love of Christ, Ophelia, find someone who is
>not going to profit from your adoption, and ask them to help.
Veronica has already offered to adopt the lot of them- Ophelia, Andy and Baby.
She even bought a pony and a canopy bed! Unfortunately, Ophelia would have to
move to Texas, and ahhhh that's the rub.
Jeannette, bmom
Only with a true friend's input can we hope to see our world clearly,
for our own perception always seems the truth.
Dr. Richard Fritz
Lainie
Lainie
Jrobnett1 <jrob...@aol.comcan.it.> wrote in article
Vicki Lawson
wrote:
>
>Veronica has already offered to adopt the lot of them- Ophelia, Andy and Baby.
>She even bought a pony and a canopy bed! Unfortunately, Ophelia would have to
>move to Texas, and ahhhh that's the rub.
>
>
Or we will adopt them all (and my husband can overhaul the mercedes -
he did my dad's old one and it ran like crazy :0
Or maybe we can move to NO
Vicki
Jrobnett1
In article <369ebab8...@news.earthlink.net>, zmama5...@earthlink.net
(Vicki Lawson) writes:
>Or we will adopt them all (and my husband can overhaul the mercedes -
>he did my dad's old one and it ran like crazy :0
>
>Or maybe we can move to NO
>
>
*I'd* move to NO if I lived in California. But that's me.
Veronica22
Vicki
>
******
I'm considering this myself!
V
Veronica22
Lainie
>
****
Deal! I'm deermined to get some of the peanut butter fudge ...
V
Vicki Lawson
wrote:
>>
>
>*I'd* move to NO if I lived in California. But that's me.
>
>
>Jeannette, bmom
>
I'm guffawing here... I tried to leave. We moved to Washington State.
I loved it. too wet and chilly and gray for my husband and kids,
though. I miss the *green*.
We live in a semi-rural area - like we are out in the wilderness - but
close enough to the city to do what we need/want to do. I was raised
a city girl. I would miss it.
California'[s not such a bad place - ya just have to get used to it
:-)
vicki
glad to be home
Lainie
will make sure you have all the fudge you can eat!
Lainie
Veronica22 <veron...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990114232908...@ng09.aol.com>...
Morra
> Keep us posted as this one unravels.
>
> Judy
judith...."unravels"?
unfolds.
;D
the CLAW ;;;DDD
JudithR2
>JudithR2 wrote:
>
>> Keep us posted as this one unravels.
>>
>> Judy
>
>judith...."unravels"?
>
>
>unfolds.
>
LOL! See Barb, there are three degrees...unfolding,
unraveling and untangling -- with untangling being, of
course, by far the messiest! Surely the breach of that
social worker (or whatever she was) escalated O's
unfolding story.
>
>;D
>
>the CLAW ;;;DDD
>
Judy (Off to practice her Origami)
Morra
> >
> Judy (Off to practice her Origami)
the folding.
b