Disturbing Changes in BBW Magazine
Lenore Levine
Yesterday, I received the latest issue of BBW Magazine.
Although it contained some worthwhile material, this
issue displayed an emphasis I found extremely disturbing.
In an editorial, they presented the new pubisher of this
magazine: a woman with two last names, the first of which
is Flynt. Presumably, she's the daughter of Larry Flynt, who
owns the company that owns BBW.
In this editorial, Ms. Flynt says that she knows where
we're coming from, because she's always wanted to be a
size 9 and finally realized that she'd have to settle
for staying a size 12. She also mentions that she's into
animal rights, and displays a large picture of herself
photographed with her pet. She also includes a picture
of the editor, Janey Milstead, with _her_ pet.
Further on in the magazine, there are articles endorsing
fake furs and humanely produced cosmetics. There are also
various homilies about animals, and an ad for PETA en-
dorsed by Ms. Flynt.
Now, I don't mind hearing about cruelty-free products.
Given a choice, I prefer them. But I do mind being
presented with an animals agenda so heavy-handed that
it appears to be the real purpose of the magazine. And I
particularly mind Ms. Flynt's endorsement of PETA. I
regard this organization as the antithesis of sensible
humane activism.
Similarly, I don't mind that Poppa got rich selling
wank mags. After all, he's never tried to sell SexyKitten,
or her sisters, through the pages of BBW. But I
do mind the boss's daughter shoehorning her neurotic
viewpoint into the magazine like a schoolyard bully.
And oh yes, I miss the meat recipies.
Lenore Levine
--
"...Zionist Conspirator... Holocaust denier... Lesbian...
Raper of vegetables... Dysfunctional menstruator... worst of all...
statistician.... Ooh and you fuck Bobbi too... Slut..." --
Mongrel has me figured out
Valerie Lynn Mills
In <61gpgp$ano$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> lev...@orion.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore
Levine) writes:
>
>Yesterday, I received the latest issue of BBW Magazine.
>Although it contained some worthwhile material, this
>issue displayed an emphasis I found extremely disturbing.
>
Did you also feel the magazine was thinner?
>In an editorial, they presented the new pubisher of this
>magazine: a woman with two last names, the first of which
>is Flynt. Presumably, she's the daughter of Larry Flynt, who
>owns the company that owns BBW.
>
YES - this is the daughter of the famous Larry Flynt!
[snip]
>
>Similarly, I don't mind that Poppa got rich selling
>wank mags. After all, he's never tried to sell SexyKitten,
>or her sisters, through the pages of BBW. But I
>do mind the boss's daughter shoehorning her neurotic
>viewpoint into the magazine like a schoolyard bully.
>
^^^^^^^^ FUNNY!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^
>And oh yes, I miss the meat recipies.
>
>Lenore Levine
I missed the recipies also in the magazine this month. There also
seemed to be a lot of other things missing, BUT the guy with the female
model about page 20 was nice looking....but I would prefer a bigger
female model. All the models in this issue seemed smaller then normal.
Valerie
Lee Martindale
Not sure what it means, but a few days ago I did an interview
with one of BBW's writers on weight discrimination. According
to Linda Cauthen, the Spring issue of _BBW_ is being devoted
to that issue.
She appears to have been doing some decent research, talking
to many of the serious players and gathering info. Beyond that,
I'll have to see what she turns out.
She *did* mentioned that the issue before the size
discrimination feature will focus on BBW love lives, dating
and such "for Valentine's Day".
--
Lee Martindale
National Coordinator - Project Legislation 2000
Publisher & Editor - Rump Parliament
"Working To Change The Way Society Treats Fat People"
email: lma...@airmail.net
http://web2.airmail.net/lmartin
KerriLynn
lev...@orion.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) wrote:
>Similarly, I don't mind that Poppa got rich selling
>wank mags. After all, he's never tried to sell SexyKitten,
>or her sisters, through the pages of BBW. But I
>do mind the boss's daughter shoehorning her neurotic
>viewpoint into the magazine like a schoolyard bully.
>Lenore Levine
Thanks ;-)
;-) <=== smile, I always do! KerriLynn
http://www.techline.com/~kitefvr/bbw.htm
BBW SeXyKiTTn
*Where BIG is Beautiful*
IRC, Arizona BBW Comfort Zone, Links, Fat Acceptance
http://www.techline.com/~kitefvr/adult.htm
http://www.techline.com/~kitefvr/over18.htm
((The BBW adult site & guestbook reviews))
YES, I'm Fat!so? I'm Fat!SeXy!so? I'm Fat!SeXy!Confident!So?
Avoiding spam:
You can Email: sexykitn at primenet dot com
Lenore Levine
SeX...@nospam.com (KerriLynn) writes:
>lev...@orion.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) wrote:
>>Similarly, I don't mind that Poppa got rich selling
>>wank mags. After all, he's never tried to sell SexyKitten,
>>or her sisters, through the pages of BBW...
>>Lenore Levine
>Thanks ;-)
For what it's worth, I do think your material is
reasonable for this group. However, I don't think
it would be appropriate for BBW.
You _are_ lovely, though...
Sandra Doyle
Lenore Levine (lev...@orion.math.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: various homilies about animals, and an ad for PETA en-
: dorsed by Ms. Flynt.
Lenore, are you telling me that "PETA" is an
animal *rights* group? Geeze, I always thought
that it stood for "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals"
^ ^ ^ ^
Where are those meat recipes???
;-) Sandra
Lee Martindale
Linda Cauthen wrote:
> Thanks for the mention, Lee. I'm doing the best I can!
And considerably better than my last experience with _BBW_.
Your questions were on-point and intelligent.
Last time around, all the reporter seemed interested in
was clothes, make-up and my love life.
Chrislegg
>>Not sure what it means, but a few days ago I did an interview
>with one of BBW's writers on weight discrimination. According
>to Linda Cauthen, the Spring issue of _BBW_ is being devoted
>to that issue.
>
>
This is a very interesting topic. I have one question that perhaps someone can
tell me if it is addressed in this magazine (or if you have any personal
experience to relate to us, I would love to hear about it).
My question is: does discrimination increase proportionately with weight gain?
By this I am not asking whether a heavy person is more discriminated against
than a thin person. Rather, I am asking if a supersize BBW would be
discriminated against more than a "moderate" BBW.
I have heard about how among blacks, the "lighter" blacks are discriminated
against less than "darker" blacks, and that there is discrimination against
the "darker" blacks by the "lighter" blacks.
\Anecdotally, this seems to be somewhat true among BBW's, though I have really
only heard about the type of comment from a moderate BBW to the effect of
"well, at least I am not THAT fat". I sort of figure that employers, for
example, would either accept a fat employee or would not, and that there would
not be a point at which they would become too fat (except perhaps where size
is an genuine issue for the employee's effectiveness - e.g., a flight
attendant has to be able to move easily about a plane, so someone too short
would not be accepted as they could not reach the overhead bins without
standing on a seat, and that may sound trivial until you think where all the
emergency equipment is located, and I could see there a genuine reason why a
supersize BBW/BHM could genuinely be refused employment due to their size as
plane aisles are not built to accomodate someone of their size).
On the other hand, I have also heard of men who like BBW's and don't like
SSBBW's, so that is "discrimination" of a sort, though I am not so sure that
we could really describe having a preference of one size woman over another as
"discrimination".
In any event, I would be interested in people's opinions on this subject.
Thanks a bunch!
Chris :-)
Lee Martindale
Chrislegg wrote:
> My question is: does discrimination increase proportionately with weight gain?
Based on reports from readers and others, as well as my own
experiences, not really. At least when we're talking discrimination
in the workplace. I've been told "you're too fat to work here"
at my "smallest" (around 150) and my "largest" - whatever I am
now and have been for the last 10 years. Can't tell you what that
is, since I haven't been on a scales in that aforementioned 10 years.
> \Anecdotally, this seems to be somewhat true among BBW's, though I have really
> only heard about the type of comment from a moderate BBW to the effect of
> "well, at least I am not THAT fat". I sort of figure that employers, for
> example, would either accept a fat employee or would not, and that there would
> not be a point at which they would become too fat (except perhaps where size
> is an genuine issue for the employee's effectiveness - e.g., a flight
> attendant has to be able to move easily about a plane, so someone too short
> would not be accepted as they could not reach the overhead bins without
> standing on a seat, and that may sound trivial until you think where all the
> emergency equipment is located, and I could see there a genuine reason why a
> supersize BBW/BHM could genuinely be refused employment due to their size as
> plane aisles are not built to accomodate someone of their size).
True in principle. Which is I would have absolutely no problem with
the "test" of being able to perform those tasks were whether or not
the flight attendant could perform those tasks. "Safety" (the
airlines' stated reason for weight limits) does not hinge on eight-
tenths of one pound, which is what one flight attendant was recently
fired for being over the limit.
> On the other hand, I have also heard of men who like BBW's and don't like
> SSBBW's, so that is "discrimination" of a sort, though I am not so sure that
> we could really describe having a preference of one size woman over another as
> "discrimination".
I don't. I tend to use "discrimination" in talking about employment,
medical care and insurance. Social preference is just that.
Robin Owen
chri...@aol.com (Chrislegg) wrote:
<snip>
>My question is: does discrimination increase proportionately with weight gain?
> than a thin person. Rather, I am asking if a supersize BBW would be
> discriminated against more than a "moderate" BBW.
I did some reading last year for a class dealing with racism, and was
struck by the distinction between "overt" and "systemic" racism--in the
context of interracial relations, overt racism is what we commonly refer
to as discrimination or harassment (name calling or denying employment
based on skin color, etc.), while systemic racism has more to do with
"built in" economic or social disadvantage (e.g., grocery stores charging
more and providing lower quality goods in some neighborhoods, which by
"coincidence" are the neighborhoods where people of color live).
Relating this to size discrimination... I think that all fat people in
our US culture face some degree of size discrimination, and often this is
"overt" discrimination (name calling, openly denying employment, etc.).
As warped as our American/Western culture is these days, people who are
not even truly fat face this kind of discrimination (consider the media
coverage given to any celebrity's gain of 5-10 lbs, or the constant
barrage of Bill Clinton fat jokes). And I do believe that, generally,
the larger one is the more overt discrimination one faces: a size 16-18
woman, for example, would be much less likely to be told to her face that
she was not being hired because of her weight than a size 30-32 woman. I
don't have any solid research to back this, of course; my belief is based
on anectdotal evidence. It would make an interesting study, though.
But I am convinced that the issue of systemic size discrimination
definitely increases as one increases in size. For me, the "magic
number" on the scale was about 275 lbs, although of course individual
experiences will vary--at the point at which one crosses from plus-size
to super-size, one begins to encounter what someone here recently
described as "geometrical" issues. Some examples: theater and airplane
seats become very problematic (and don't even get me started on those
chair-desk contraptions at schools!), turnstiles become real obstacles,
clothing selections become drastically limited, car seatbelts don't fit
comfortably (or at all), chair and/or desk configurations at work may not
be workable, public and private bathroom facilities go from annoyingly
small to nearly impossible to use, and access to medical/diagnostic
equipment (from properly sized BP cuffs and gowns to imaging equipment)
becomes problematic.
These are forms of systemic discrimination against the super-sized, which
I believe if not recognized as such and combatted, will increasingly
become forms of systemic discrimination against the mid-sized as well.
Contrary to what Fumento seems to believe, seats and other equipment are
not generally getting bigger! We've made progress in some areas: the
clothing situation, for instance, is much better for big men and women
than it was 15 years ago. But how many of us have problems with seat
belts now but didn't with our last car--and it wasn't us that changed
sizes? My husband and I were at Water Tower Place (a very upscale
shopping center in Chicago) a while back, and decided to take a coffee
break. There was literally no where we could sit in the restaurant area,
and as we started looking around, we noticed that even "normal" sized
people looked uncomfortable in the little round chairs with 12 inch seats
and side rails around 2/3 of the seat that were provided! And one of my
bosses, who is about 5'8" and 150 lbs, complains about how uncomfortable
the airline seating has become. The "standard" size for bathtubs and
shower stalls has also decreased over the past few decades, which is bad
news for tall people as well as fat people.
I could go on and on about this... anyway, Chris, the short answer to
your question, as I see it, is yes--discrimination does increase with
size.
--robin
Zenoink
In <EHuG...@midway.uchicago.edu> Robin Owen
<ro...@babies.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:
snip of a good but long message
>Contrary to what Fumento seems to believe, seats and other equipment
are
>not generally getting bigger! We've made progress in some areas: the
>clothing situation, for instance, is much better for big men and women
>than it was 15 years ago. But how many of us have problems with seat
>belts now but didn't with our last car--and it wasn't us that changed
>sizes? My husband and I were at Water Tower Place (a very upscale
>shopping center in Chicago) a while back, and decided to take a coffee
>break. There was literally no where we could sit in the restaurant
area,
>and as we started looking around, we noticed that even "normal" sized
>people looked uncomfortable in the little round chairs with 12 inch
seats
>and side rails around 2/3 of the seat that were provided! And one of
my
>bosses, who is about 5'8" and 150 lbs, complains about how
uncomfortable
>the airline seating has become. The "standard" size for bathtubs and
>shower stalls has also decreased over the past few decades, which is
bad
>news for tall people as well as fat people.
>
snip
>
>--robin
Robin,m this is a very valid set of observations and it would be great
if you passed them on to the kind of people who are apt to read Fumento
and do something with his "findings" and arguments...that is, policy
makers and legislators. You might write this up as a short letter,
citing the splash Fumento has made as a reason for writing, and forward
it to a few of the ones who think would be appropriate. And the rest
of us might do the same!
And then maybe we could do something SYSTEMATIC about looking at this!
Kay
Miss Ska
Valerie Lynn Mills (vmi...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: In <61gpgp$ano$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> lev...@orion.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore
: Levine) writes:
: >
: >Yesterday, I received the latest issue of BBW Magazine.
: >Although it contained some worthwhile material, this
: >issue displayed an emphasis I found extremely disturbing.
: >
: Did you also feel the magazine was thinner?
I almost flipped when I saw the cover model. She didn't look like a large
model. Not at all.. in fact, the cover coul;d have been easily mistaken
for Cosmo or Vogue. I saw maybe one or two larger sized models in the
whole mag. I left it where it belonged.... on the stand. And I was sad to
report that whilem the mag store *Did* carry BBW, the owner has never even
heard of Radiance. Looks like I'll be subscribing. I'm tired of going on
wild goose chases across Monttreal's magazine stores searching for copies
of Radiance, Yes, Belle and Burda Plus. I despise Mode. It's not a
large-sized fashion magazine.. it's just women who don't fit into a size 8
dress who've put on a few extra pounds. *groan*
Miss Ska
P. S. Did anyone see the Kellogg's Special K commercials? They're
hilarious!
--
Anuska Garcia "To live is like to love; all reason is
s...@alcor.concordia.ca against it, and all healthy instinct
http://alcor.concordia.ca for it." -- Samuel Butler, Life and love
Leanna Kennedy-Alvis
My only real problem with the issue was the choice of models. What were all
those average-sized women doing modeling clothes in BBW? Didn't they used to
have a policy, back during the good-old-Carole-Shaw days of not using
fashion photography depicting women under size (I think it was) 18? Made me
think I'd picked up a Lane Bryant catalog for a minute!
--
Leanna
Lenore Levine wrote in message <61gpgp$ano$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
Yesterday, I received the latest issue of BBW Magazine.
Although it contained some worthwhile material, this
issue displayed an emphasis I found extremely disturbing.
In an editorial, they presented the new pubisher of this
magazine: a woman with two last names, the first of which
is Flynt. Presumably, she's the daughter of Larry Flynt, who
owns the company that owns BBW.
In this editorial, Ms. Flynt says that she knows where
we're coming from, because she's always wanted to be a
size 9 and finally realized that she'd have to settle
for staying a size 12. She also mentions that she's into
animal rights, and displays a large picture of herself
photographed with her pet. She also includes a picture
of the editor, Janey Milstead, with _her_ pet.
Further on in the magazine, there are articles endorsing
fake furs and humanely produced cosmetics. There are also
various homilies about animals, and an ad for PETA en-
dorsed by Ms. Flynt.
Now, I don't mind hearing about cruelty-free products.
Given a choice, I prefer them. But I do mind being
presented with an animals agenda so heavy-handed that
it appears to be the real purpose of the magazine. And I
particularly mind Ms. Flynt's endorsement of PETA. I
regard this organization as the antithesis of sensible
humane activism.
Similarly, I don't mind that Poppa got rich selling
wank mags. After all, he's never tried to sell SexyKitten,
or her sisters, through the pages of BBW. But I
do mind the boss's daughter shoehorning her neurotic
viewpoint into the magazine like a schoolyard bully.
And oh yes, I miss the meat recipies.
Lenore Levine
dcusick
Miss Ska <s...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote in article
<6213kc$ref$1...@newsflash.concordia.ca>...
> report that whilem the mag store *Did* carry BBW, the owner has never
even
> heard of Radiance. Looks like I'll be subscribing. I'm tired of going on
> wild goose chases across Monttreal's magazine stores searching for copies
> of Radiance, Yes, Belle and Burda Plus. I despise Mode. It's not a
> large-sized fashion magazine.. it's just women who don't fit into a size
8
> dress who've put on a few extra pounds. *groan*
>
I've never even HEARD of any of these! Are they all magazines of some sort?
(then again I'm not much of a magazine reader except for Newsweek and
Smithsonian)
Debbie
Jo Ann Malina
Chrislegg (chri...@aol.com) wrote:
: My question is: does discrimination increase proportionately with weight gain?
: than a thin person. Rather, I am asking if a supersize BBW would be
: discriminated against more than a "moderate" BBW.
: I have heard about how among blacks, the "lighter" blacks are discriminated
: against less than "darker" blacks, and that there is discrimination against
: the "darker" blacks by the "lighter" blacks.
: \Anecdotally, this seems to be somewhat true among BBW's, though I have really
: only heard about the type of comment from a moderate BBW to the effect of
: "well, at least I am not THAT fat". I sort of figure that employers, for
: example, would either accept a fat employee or would not, and that there would
: not be a point at which they would become too fat (except perhaps where size
: is an genuine issue for the employee's effectiveness - e.g., a flight
: attendant has to be able to move easily about a plane, so someone too short
: would not be accepted as they could not reach the overhead bins without
: standing on a seat, and that may sound trivial until you think where all the
: emergency equipment is located, and I could see there a genuine reason why a
: supersize BBW/BHM could genuinely be refused employment due to their size as
: plane aisles are not built to accomodate someone of their size).
: On the other hand, I have also heard of men who like BBW's and don't like
: SSBBW's, so that is "discrimination" of a sort, though I am not so sure that
: we could really describe having a preference of one size woman over another as
: "discrimination".
: In any event, I would be interested in people's opinions on this subject.
Briefly, yes. I have been many sizes over the years as I dieted my way
down and regained plus (you all know the drill). I've never been thin,
but have been treated better as a mid-size than as a super-size woman.
I have to work harder as super-size to prove I'm a person, someone worth
talking to, and sometimes I just get tired of it. Of course, I'm getting
older too, and age discrimination may also be kicking in. In general I
don't mind it as much as I did when I was young, because I have a lot of
friends and care less about the opinion of the world in general. But
when it comes to medical personnel, getting a job, etc, then I DO care.
--
Jo Ann Malina, jma...@hooked.net
I like to write when I feel spiteful; it's like having a good sneeze.
-- D. H. Lawrence
Dee
=I despise Mode. It's not a
=large-sized fashion magazine.. it's just women who don't fit into a size 8
=dress who've put on a few extra pounds. *groan*
=
=Miss Ska
I've noticed that there are a few people who post here that seem to think
that women who are in the size 14-20 range are somehow "overweight thin
women" rather than "real fat women."
In fact, there are probably far more women who fall naturally in this size
range than in the next ten sizes up. Think about it. Set-range
distribution is probably a bell curve.
I get the feeling that when some people think about someone who wears a
size 16, they think it's just some skinny woman who got a desk job after
college, had a kid, and then put on thirty pounds. Well, no doubt that
woman could use the support of this group, too, but it's not fair to assume
that every small fat person fits that description.
I was noticably chubbier than my classmates starting in first grade, and
I've been somewhere in between a size 16 and a 20 since I was was eleven
years old, and like many people, got a lot of abuse for it. Unlike a lot
of others (including many people in my family), I never did the starvation
diet thing, and I never got temporarally smaller or permanently bigger.
So, although I apprieciate that there's are major differences between being
at the bottom and the top of the plus-sized range, and I've never
experienced a lot of what bigger women have, I've still got a lot of
emotional baggage related to my size.
Reading this group has been very helpful to me. It's helped motivate me to
take better care of myself, and I've gotten into really good shape and
dropped a couple of sizes (although I haven't lost much weight). So, I'm
60 pounds "overweight," and I'm smaller than usual. In all likelyhood, I'm
a thin fat woman and not a fat thin woman. I'm sure there are plenty more
like me out there. So, please try not to assume that everyone in my size
range is a thin person who's let her/himself go. :-D
-Dee
Linda Cauthen
dle...@aol.com (Dee) writes:
>I was noticably chubbier than my classmates starting in first grade, and
>I've been somewhere in between a size 16 and a 20 since I was was eleven
>years old, and like many people, got a lot of abuse for it.
lev...@orion.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine):
>>>>I've also been in that range all my adult life. Never dieted;
Size 16 in my 20's, size 20 now (age 48). Yes, I got lots of
weight abuse from my family, and as a young adult.<<<<
>I've still got a lot of
>emotional baggage related to my size.
>>>>Amen!>>>
>So, please try not to assume that everyone in my size
>range is a thin person who's let her/himself go. :-D
>>>Dee, you've said some very sensible and important things.
But why assume that:
1) A formerly thin person can't derive benefits from fat
acceptance?
2) A formerly thin person "let themselves go"? For example,
some people, like my mother, are so borderline that they
weren't fat when young, were barely fat when they were middle-
aged, and stopped being fat when they got old.
Lenore Levine<<<<
Well said, both of you.
Keep in mind that some of us live in areas like NY and LA, where any
woman over a size 6 will be told at some point by some idiot that she
needs to lose weight! A size 12 buddy was at the airport last week when
a jerk told her she had a "pretty face" and should lose 30 pounds. I
think I would have whacked him with my carry-on bag!
Also, a woman who has always worn a 12-14 or smaller and gains enough
weight to require a size larger than 14 is *not* going to be happy with
the diminished quantity and quality of the clothes available to her.
This problem may seem pretty small if you're a supersize who has to
search like crazy for *everything," but it's still annoying to be unable
to find the type of clothes you're accustomed to wearing just because
you need them a few sizes larger.
Us "borderline BBWs" need support, too!
Linda
Rachel
> : In <61gpgp$ano$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> lev...@orion.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore
> : Levine) writes:
> : >
> : >issue displayed an emphasis I found extremely disturbing.
> : Did you also feel the magazine was thinner?
>
At least you're getting your copy. I sent off a subscription back in
August, they happily took the money from my Mastercard in August but I
didn't receive the September edition.
Can someone tell me their website or email address, please?
Thanks
--
Rachel
(a.k.a. 'Supergoof')
and Murphy, the Mad Mutt!
________________
NO SPAM, PLEASE
dcusick
Cyn <c...@dont.want.spam> wrote in article >
> Yep. I've never worn more than a size 24 or 24/26 at my heaviest--but
> I've certainly experienced nastiness.
>
> I haven't said much as I figure things are even worse for supersized
> people--I've never had to deal with not fitting into a chair or seat
> or bathroom stall or whatever--but I do feel sometimes that those of
> us who are "just midsized" aren't completely welcome.
>
Well, I've never been larger than size 24/26 either (currently size 20/22).
When I was size 24/26 I had a terrible time fitting into seats in movie
theaters, got stuck going through turnstiles, could not fit into booths in
restaurants, was very cramped in bathroom stalls to the point where some
where almost unusable, would not even GET on an airplane as last time I
flew, at size 22, I could barely fit into the sit and was so cramped and
miserable (for 11 hours!) that I almost cried, so when I got larger I was
damned if I'd subject myself to that torture again. If you haven't
experienced these things you were lucky, but they were part of my every day
life at size 24.
Debbie
Wifluv
In article <01bcddba$458f3540$55daedcc@bcusick>, "dcusick"
<dcu...@prodigy.net> writes:
>> I haven't said much as I figure things are even worse for supersized
>> people--I've never had to deal with not fitting into a chair or seat
>> or bathroom stall or whatever--but I do feel sometimes that those of
>> us who are "just midsized" aren't completely welcome.
>>
>Well, I've never been larger than size 24/26 either (currently size 20/22).
>When I was size 24/26 I had a terrible time fitting into seats in movie
>theaters, got stuck going through turnstiles, could not fit into booths in
>restaurants, was very cramped in bathroom stalls to the point where some
>where almost unusable, would not even GET on an airplane as last time I
>flew, at size 22, I could barely fit into the sit and was so cramped and
>miserable (for 11 hours!) that I almost cried, so when I got larger I was
>damned if I'd subject myself to that torture again. If you haven't
>experienced these things you were lucky, but they were part of my every day
>life at size 24.
It sounds like you may be comparing apples to pears (just a fat
distribution joke).
I personally am an apple, and I wear anywhere between a 22 and a 28
currently. I have no trouble at most theatres, although some don't have
enough to slip my purse down beside me, which is what I prefer to do. I
was uncomfortable on my last plane trip, but I would have been
uncomfortable skinny too because of the lack of leg room. And Taco Bell is
the only place where the booth is almost too tight a fit. Point being, I
have heard women "smaller" than me, give legitimate complaints about not
being able to fit at places I seem to have no problem with, all because
they have huge thighs and hips, where as I look like the great pumpkin
stuck on stick legs.
AVRAMA GINGOLD
JS> When I was a 16 I longed to be a 12. When I was an 18 I longed to be a 14.
JS> Now that I'm 22/24 I long to be a 16/18. It is not the weight. It is the
JS> mind set, the trauma, the reality that no matter what size if you do not fi
JS> the norms as dictated by society you will feel outside of the herd. Outsid
JS> the desireable. And every time you see/hear fat jokes you too will
JS> cringe/hurt. I think our experiences are similar regardless of how large w
JS> are.
Not to mention that it is a great deal more difficult to find
attractive and stylish clothing as the size increases.
Avrama
... nfx v2.7 [C0000] Your dog is your only philosopher. -- Plato
julia
Jenny Lynne Semenza (seme...@isu.edu) wrote:
: Dee wrote:
: > =I despise Mode. It's not a
: > =large-sized fashion magazine.. it's just women who don't fit into a
: > =size 8
: > =dress who've put on a few extra pounds. *groan*
No, there are large women in it and lots of "love your large sexy self"
articles and such.
: I love Mode.
Whee, me too.
: second issue had fewer and the most recent issue has fewer still. Yes we're
: still mostly seeing women in the 12-24 size range. But the point is that it IS
: more than the size 3-8 we normally get in fashion magazines.
True, true. When you get over a 12, you're fat as far as clothing stores
go (and as far as many others treat you). Mode does say on the cover that
it focuses on size 12-16 women. Although I can sneak into more 'normal'
clothing, I am all over the frustration my super size aunts (for example)
have when they want pretty clothes and they don't come in their size.
j
Maya
Ummm hang on, I have the issue for Fall in front of me and it says:
"Simply the Best in Sizes 12, 14, 16 ... "
Those DOT DOT DOT's mean something, does anyone remember math?
That means and up, indefinately (simplest terms)... In no way does it say
its for sizes 12 14 and 16 only!
I can't wait for Mode to go monthly!!! Its funny, all of a sudden I am
realizing how these women all look a hell of a lot healthier than the ones
in Cosmo, guess I will tear up that renewal notice...
- Maya
whose closet holds size 10-22 - I want consistent sizing!!!
julia wrote in article <62l9h9$oal$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>...
**** SNIP *****.
>
>True, true. When you get over a 12, you're fat as far as clothing stores
>go (and as far as many others treat you).
--->
Mode does say on the cover that
>it focuses on size 12-16 women.
<----
Although I can sneak into more 'normal'
>clothing, I am all over the frustration my super size aunts (for example)
>have when they want pretty clothes and they don't come in their size.
>
>
>
>j
***** SNIP *****
Zenoink
In article <62l9h9$oal$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>,
When you get over a 12, you're fat as far as clothing stores
>go (and as far as many others treat you).
>
>
I recently went to a fashion seminar given by a local women's group at one of the
"nicer" department stores nearby and was very struck by one experience there.
The most attractively dressed woman of the three giving the seminar looked
"normal" to me sitting in the audience twenty feet away. But when I went up
to ask her something about shoe availability at her store I could not get
over how absolutely tiny she seemed, especially how very VERY thin.
She had made a point of demonstrating the advantages of shoulder pads and now I
couldcertainly see why. The gap between the images of her up close and on stage
was really dramatic.
Since I am quite heavy myself I mulled this over quite a bit.
It seems to me that the "standard" set in fashion magazines is hard to overcome
even when one is very conscious of being manipulated. All the more reason we
need to see the "real" world reflected in magazines and catalogs.
Kay
Karyl Bleddyn
I'm 5'9" and wear a size 24 or 26... it's a pain for me to find clothing
that is both long enough and big enough. Clothing manufacturers must think
all size 24 women are under 5'6". Are there places which sell clothing for
women my height and size?
to reply email merrypoo at odyline dot com
--
If this had been an actual emergency, the attention signal you just heard would have been followed by news or official information. This concludes this test of the emergency broadcast system.
Leanna Kennedy-Alvis
Me, too! 5'9" and in the size 32-36 range (depending on how it's cut). 32"
inseam minimum. My husband, who wears the same size t-shirts as I do, is
5'11" and needs his pants shortened to a 30" inseam. He's two inches taller,
but his legs are two inches shorter. Go figure.
--
Leanna
Karyl Bleddyn wrote in message ...
Gene and Mary Baker
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Leanna Kennedy-Alvis wrote:
> Me, too! 5'9" and in the size 32-36 range (depending on how it's cut). 32"
> inseam minimum. My husband, who wears the same size t-shirts as I do, is
> 5'11" and needs his pants shortened to a 30" inseam. He's two inches taller,
> but his legs are two inches shorter. Go figure.
I'm 5'11" and wear a 24/26. I found TALL jeans up to size 26 at *WalMart*. I
couldn't believe it. They have been wearing pretty well, too. Also, I go to plus
sizes secondhand stores and usually have good luck there.
BTW, my husband is 6'1", and his inseam is also 2-3" shorter than mine. Must be
a guy thing! : ^)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
)\ ( ) /( sS* s S Mary Block-Baker \
)-(0^^0)-( S*S*sS*s rad...@juno.com \ O
)/ \\// \( s*Ss*s*S _\| | }
(oo) s*Ss*s*SS* "Slaying the Dragon" M_/|\_|}
oOo ~~ oOo | }
Mary's Home Page of Fun and Excitement / \
www.geocities.com/capitolhill/2991/mbbpage.html _/ \_
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Adoption * Hep C * Music * Star Trek * Houston * & More!
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Danita Justice
On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:46:25 -0800, I.don't.l...@spam.yuk (Karyl
Bleddyn) wrote:
>I'm 5'9" and wear a size 24 or 26... it's a pain for me to find clothing
>that is both long enough and big enough. Clothing manufacturers must think
>all size 24 women are under 5'6". Are there places which sell clothing for
>women my height and size?
>
Sizes Unlimited (aka The Avenue and 16 Plus) is the only store I know
that carries pants up to size 32 in "true tall lengths". Hope there
is one near you.
Gene and Mary Baker
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Mary-Anne G. Wolf wrote:
> I get my pants at Big and Tall the Casual Male.
> I am female, about 5'7", and I get the shortest
> in my waste size. I feel pretty sure if you don't
> mind the unisex look, you can find big and tall
> at men's stores.
>
> Mary-Anne
> m...@world.std.com
>
> P.S. After you have experienced the service at a men's store,
> you won't want to go back to a women's store again.
I have to disagree here, Mary-Anne, it really depends on your body
*type* if you can wear men's clothing or not. An "apple" might be able
to wear men's pants... I don't think a "pear" could, because men's pants
are cut so that the waist and hip size are about the same... I have a
definite "hourglass with most of the sand at the bottom" shape, and can
never find men's pants that would fit me in the hips, that would also
fit me in the waist. Heck, I can't find *women's* pants that fit me well
in the waist!
BTW, my measurements are 44-38-50 on a 5'11", 250# frame!
I do buy men's shirts, though, because the sleeves are actually long
enough... especially men's sweaters! Yum!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
)\ ( ) /( sS* s S Mary Block-Baker \
)-(0^^0)-( S*S*sS*s rad...@juno.com \ O
)/ \\// \( s*Ss*s*S _\| | }
(oo) s*Ss*s*SS* "Slaying the Dragon" M_/|\_|}
oOo ~~ oOo | }
Mary's Home Page of Fun and Excitement / \
www.geocities.com/capitolhill/2991/mbbpage.html _/ \_
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Adoption * Hep C * Music * Star Trek * Houston * & More!
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Robin Owen
I.don't.l...@spam.yuk (Karyl Bleddyn) wrote:
>I'm 5'9" and wear a size 24 or 26... it's a pain for me to find clothing
>that is both long enough and big enough. Clothing manufacturers must think
>all size 24 women are under 5'6". Are there places which sell clothing for
>women my height and size?
>
>
>--
This concludes this test of the emergency broadcast system.
I'm on the shorter end of the spectrum (5'2") and guess what? Most plus
size clothes don't fit me right either!! I have no idea what sort of
body the manufacturers have in mind when they design plus size clothes :)
Anyway, I have had good luck in the past with Smart Size/Sizes/Sizes
Unlimited/The Avenue (all one chain, just with different names in
different parts of the country) for pants. They size their jersey pants
and stirrups in petite, average, and tall, and the petites actually fit
me without hemming. Perhaps the talls would fit you.
--robin
Jane A Matthew
I think it's got to do with our hips. My husband is taller than I am yet
has a shorter inseam, too.
Jane
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Gene and Mary Baker wrote:
> Leanna Kennedy-Alvis wrote:
>
> > Me, too! 5'9" and in the size 32-36 range (depending on how it's cut). 32"
> > inseam minimum. My husband, who wears the same size t-shirts as I do, is
> > 5'11" and needs his pants shortened to a 30" inseam. He's two inches taller,
> > but his legs are two inches shorter. Go figure.
>
>
> I'm 5'11" and wear a 24/26. I found TALL jeans up to size 26 at *WalMart*. I
> couldn't believe it. They have been wearing pretty well, too. Also, I go to plus
> sizes secondhand stores and usually have good luck there.
>
> BTW, my husband is 6'1", and his inseam is also 2-3" shorter than mine. Must be
> a guy thing! : ^)
>
>
P.Moravek
Hi, I make costumes alot, so I am often measuring adult bodies. In general
(like 95% of the time) women have about 7% longer legs as compared to men
of the same height. Men make up their height in their torsos.
Certainly there are exceptions, but they are infrequent.
Often you'll see a 6'1" guy with a 33" in-seam, and there will be many women
between 5'8 and 5'10 with a 33" in-seam. A female friend of mine is actually
5'5" tall and has a 33" in-seam! (VERY long legs!) I just measured two
different guys who were both 5'6" tall, and both had 29" in-seams. I'm
5'7" myself, and have 31.5" in-seam.
If you just sit in a mall and people-watch, this will be very apparent
(taking into account differences in shoe height, of course).
Cheers!
Dorothea M. Rovner
In article <637tcr$nnu$1...@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, pmor...@reno.WPI.EDU
(P.Moravek) wrote:
> Hi, I make costumes alot, so I am often measuring adult bodies. In general
> (like 95% of the time) women have about 7% longer legs as compared to men
> of the same height. Men make up their height in their torsos.
Heh. Cool. I'm not weird.
My fiance and I can wear the same jeans (as long as they're mine,
and not his -- I have a woman's hips; he doesn't, obviously). 30" waist,
32" inseam. I am 5'9"; he is 6'0".
Dorothea
--
Dorothea M. Rovner | "He querido mas vivir en mi peque~a
Gradual Student <*> | casa, exenta y se~ora, que no en sus
dmrovner(at)students.wisc.edu | ricos palacios, sojuzgada y cativa."
| -- _La Celestina_
Beth Garfinkel
>I think it's got to do with our hips. My husband is taller than I am yet
>has a shorter inseam, too.
Not necessarily. I think women tend to have legs that are
proportionally longer than men's legs. After all, on the average, a man
who is two inches taller than me will ride a bike that's about the same
frame size as mine.
Beth
--
"Under the green wood tree/Who loves to lie with me/And tune his merry
note/Unto the sweet bird's throat/Come hither, come hither, come hither/
Here he shall see/No enemy/But winter and rough weather."
--William Shakespeare
Monde
Cyn wrote:
>I count myself lucky for lots of things, Debbie. I think we may have
>one of those "different sizes mean different things to different
>people" issues here? Different people have different proportions. The
>point here isn't so much what anyone is experiencing when most of
>their clothes have a certain number on the tag, but that many of us
>who haven't experienced some of the worst discomfort have at times
>felt that our issues are trivialized here, or that we aren't as
>welcome as larger people.
what it is mostly for me is the sheer =amount= of weight i have gained in 3
years time...80 pounds...as a result of hepatitis C (which causes weight
gain) and being on methadone maintenance, which is a lifetime thing (better
than bein' a junkie, but it makes you gain lots of weight.)
it's about the fact that my normal weight from when i was 18-27 was 130
lbs. and now it is 209 lbs.
it hurts...i cannot find any clothes that fit me...and when i say 'fit me'
i don't just mean size, i mean style. i used to enjoy wearing 'gothic'
clothes, and they just don't make that style for anyone but stickwomen.
-Monde
anyone know where i can get Radiance in San Francisco?
Demi Monde: monde...@sirius.com <- Kill ZORCH to reply
Defenestration: http://www.sirius.com/~monde
Alt5 Web Page: http://www.sirius.com/~monde/alt5.html
Miche
In article <633601$89s$1...@newsflash.concordia.ca>
s...@alcor.concordia.ca (Miss Ska) writes:
> Oooohhh I hate that phrase... "letting onself go..." it sounds like the
> person has a recurring bowel problem.... :>
As someone with Irritable Bowel Syndrome, I can see that! The thought
astounds me.
(Hate that phrase too!)
Miche
------------
Miche Campbell <*>
Captain of the Starship Yentaprise
These are not necessarily the opinions of the University of Otago
You say Chaos like it's a *bad* thing!
"Beer is furrowed." -- Nigel Barley, _The Innocent Anthropologist_
Rachel
Gene and Mary Baker <gmb...@swbell.net> wrote in article
<34566C86...@swbell.net>...
> Mary-Anne G. Wolf wrote:
>
> > I get my pants at Big and Tall the Casual Male.
> > I am female, about 5'7", and I get the shortest
> > in my waste size. I feel pretty sure if you don't
> > mind the unisex look, you can find big and tall
> > at men's stores.
> >
> > Mary-Anne
> > m...@world.std.com
> >
> > P.S. After you have experienced the service at a men's store,
> > you won't want to go back to a women's store again.
>
> I have to disagree here, Mary-Anne, it really depends on your body
> *type* if you can wear men's clothing or not. An "apple" might be able
> to wear men's pants... I don't think a "pear" could, because men's pants
> are cut so that the waist and hip size are about the same... I have a
I have an 'apple' shape, but I still have to wear a belt with my men's
jeans or they fall down!
But the legs are so loooong ..... !!!!
Arnold & Jennifer Pomerance
Karyl Bleddyn wrote:
>
> I'm 5'9" and wear a size 24 or 26... it's a pain for me to find >clothing that is both long enough and big enough. Clothing manufacturers >must think all size 24 women are under 5'6".
I can sympathize; I'm 5'10" and wear 26W-28W! My worst problem right
now is finding a light-control full-body girdle (for those special times
one needs such a thing) that is long enough in the body! :-(
As for finding any one place to get the correctly porportioned clothing
for us tall BBWs, GOOD LUCK! I just pick and choose from those stores I
can afford to buy from! And from the occasional catalog.
Jennifer Pomerance
an...@mindspring.com
*There is nothing either good or bad except that thinking makes it
so.--Shakespeare*
Arnold & Jennifer Pomerance
Anna S wrote:
>
> Monde wrote in message ...
> >snip
>
> >it hurts...i cannot find any clothes that fit me...and when i say 'fit me'
> >i don't just mean size, i mean style. i used to enjoy wearing 'gothic'
> >clothes, and they just don't make that style for anyone but stickwomen.
> >
> >-Monde
> >
>
> there are. Far more big women Goths than any other sub-culture, in my
> experience.
>
> There's something about the style that really works for us. All those black
> clothes, layers, lace - and masses of dramatic hair and a full face of
> theatrical make up.
>
> No idea where Goth women get their threads, however - I always check >out clothes stalls at festivals etc and never see anything bigger than
> sticksize.
>
Now there's a thought! Are there any renaissance fair goers who might
be interested in making up a partnership with one or more sewers to sell
larger sized clothing at said events? I know a woman here in east
Tennessee who sews for other people; she herself is a large woman and
she has made clothes for me. (I'm a 26W-28W) Of course, I'd have to
ask Kenna if she'd be interested, but knowing what some of her past
plans were, I think she'd go for it!
Jennifer Pomerance
an...@mindspring.com
*Everytime I close the door on reality, it comes in the window!*
Miche
In article <3465AD...@mindspring.com>
Arnold & Jennifer Pomerance <an...@mindspring.com> writes:
> I can sympathize; I'm 5'10" and wear 26W-28W! My worst problem right
> now is finding a light-control full-body girdle (for those special times
> one needs such a thing) that is long enough in the body! :-(
If there is a specialist lingerie shop in your area, especially one
that carries large sizes, ask if they can point you in the direction of
a corsetier. There are still a few around, the garments will be
expensive but they will fit like a glove.
Good luck,
dcusick
I can never find anything that is truly long enough in the body, period.
I've bought sweatshirts mail order from Just My Size because they are cheap
and comfortable. On the models they come to hip level, but on me they come
barely past my waist. Several years ago they sold sweatshirts that were
very long, came to mid-thigh on the models. I bought one and adored it
because it actually came to my hips, just where I like it. Just when I was
about ready to order more in every color they carried they discontinued
carrying them.
Dresses, forget it, I NEVER buy dresses. Nothing I hate worse than being
sqeezed by a dress waist 4 inches higher than your own waist, and this is
just about where all dress waists hit me. Feels yucky.
--
Debbie
remove nospam when replying or emailing
Arnold & Jennifer Pomerance <an...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<3465AD...@mindspring.com>...
Robin Owen
"dcusick" <dcu...@prodigy.net.nospam> wrote:
>I can never find anything that is truly long enough in the body, period.
>I've bought sweatshirts mail order from Just My Size because they are cheap
>and comfortable. On the models they come to hip level, but on me they come
>barely past my waist. Several years ago they sold sweatshirts that were
>very long, came to mid-thigh on the models. I bought one and adored it
>because it actually came to my hips, just where I like it. Just when I was
>about ready to order more in every color they carried they discontinued
>carrying them.
>
I wear big mens' sweatshirts. Even though I am short, I have a
proportionately long torso (and stubby little legs!), and I like shirts,
sweaters and sweatshirts to be at least 30" long (most plus-size stuff
is 27"). Big mens' t-shirts and sweatshirts are often longer than big
womens' clothing. The only drawback is that the sleeves are long on my
equally stubby little arms. But I'd rather have longish sleeves than
short shirts.
There is a manufacturer called Just Big that makes very nice, affordable
sportswear in big sizes. I don't have their number with me, but it may
be in the FAQ or perhaps someone else has it and can post it here. They
are mostly a wholesale business, but they will sell to individuals. I
love their sweatshirts (light and heavy weights) and t-shirts, and they
are very affordable. My size 5X sweatshirts are about 31-32" long, and
the t-shirts are even longer.
--robin
Priscilla H Ballou
Priscilla H Ballou (p...@world.std.com) wrote:
: Coni (co...@pconline.com) wrote:
: : I remember reading or seeing something once about a place that made custom
: : jeans. You sent in your measurements (over a dozen not just waist, hips
: : and length) and you would get your very own, one of a kind pair of jeans.
: : They were expensive of course $150+, because they have to alter or make a
: : pattern for you, but I believe that each additional pair, when ordered at
: : the same time was $30. This isn't bad. Does anyone else know what I'm
: : talking about? I think I'm going to demand more access to my sewing
: : machine on my day's off and see if I can't custom make my OWN jeans.
: Yes, I remember this place, but not its name! It's on the Web, and it's
: not Levis. I'll dig around and see if I can find the URL again.
I found it! it's: http://www.ic3d.com/
Priscilla
Tracyarts
>Now there's a thought! Are there any renaissance fair goers who might
>be interested in making up a partnership with one or more sewers to sell
>larger sized clothing at said events?
There is a shop at the Texas Renaissance Festival called : "Heart's Delight".
The lady makes costume stuff like bodices, dresses, skirts, etc... up to
superplus. She also has a line of plus and superplus size clothing. She makes
a beautiful crushed velvet dress to a very ample 4X. I wear a 30-32, and I am
well within her fit range.
Maybe try posting on alt.fairs.renaissance to see if she has a brochure, or
what festivals she vends at. Sad to say I don't know her name, but she does
live in TX, Dallas I think.
B.T.W. Check out this homepage to see some costumes I have made for
superplus... http://members.aol.com/Tracyarts/index.html
Bye, and if you need sources for interesting and "gothy" plus/superplus stuff,
I can pass along some info.
Tracy
Perfection Store
> >https://bit.ly/easy_come is a strategy and simulation game in which in addition to being fun, you will find a very easy way to win real money for free