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Official Diagnosis

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Kristal

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Oct 9, 2002, 5:43:40 PM10/9/02
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Who is legally qualified to diagnose autism in the United States? I
think a Ph. D. in psychology is required. Possibly an MD would do as
well although few MD's have that much experience with autism. Could a
psychiatrist do it? This came up in a thread I posted about my therapist
saying I probably had autism. He has a Master's degree but not a Ph. D.

Kristal

Vicky

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Oct 9, 2002, 6:55:50 PM10/9/02
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Kristal,
I PDH in psychology will do. Ask your therapist if he can recommend
someone who will dx you. If he can't think of anyone, try looking on
the Oasis site for someone in your area.

I doubt that you could get any kind of dx from a regular Dr.
(general practitioner)

Beware of Psychiatrists because most know very little about Aspergers
syndrome.

Vicky

Gareeth

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Oct 9, 2002, 8:40:31 PM10/9/02
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"Vicky" <eye-e...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3DA4B282...@attbi.com...

>
> Beware of Psychiatrists because most know very little about Aspergers
> syndrome.
>

But they are technically legally allowed to. Here (Canada) they like it to
be a multi-disiplinary thing with neuropsychs also weighing in. But the dx
of a psychiatrist if he feels competent to make the dx will hold up. There
are some competent ones. They are not all bad.

Gareeth


Vicky

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Oct 9, 2002, 10:05:31 PM10/9/02
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It's very difficult to find a multi disciplinary team to dx adults
in fact I know of none in California.

Yeah, a dx of a psychiatrist will do also, but they aren't really
trained in this. Believe me I called around to many different
psychiatrists and asked them if they had heard of Aspergers and all of
them said either no or asked me if that was a childhood disorder.

In fact I was asked by one Dr. If *I* knew what aspergers was when I
told him I had it and he said " So what is your genius in?"
I guess they think we are all Geniuses or something.

The Los Angeles area has BJ Freeman who dxes adults at the university
California Los Angles (UCLA) sometimes, I am not sure if she does this
very often though and I have heard it is very hard to get to see her as
she works primarily with children and their families.

There is only one multidisipinraly place here in the bay area who
use a variety of Drs on their staff to do a dx and that is for children
and adolecences only and that uesed to be affiliated with Stanford
University. At San Francisco there is Bryna Siegel Ph.D. a psychologist
at Langely porter hospital a part of San Francisco university hospital
and she used to do adult dxes occasionally but does not offer that
anymore unless it is a special case for the state I imagine. Her PDD
clinic is not multidisciplinary either and she is not a psychiatrist but
a psychologist who carries alot of weight with her dxes if you are
trying to get services although she rarely will dx a high functioning
Autistic as Autistic but PDD-NOS.

The psychiatrists that I have talked to think that if you have
children and are married you cannot be Aspergers. Unless you are a man
because I guess it is their thought that a man can get away with
ignoring their children and a woman cannot do this. Therefore if you are
a man and ignore your children you could be a aspie but if you are a
woman you can't be a Aspie.

Do You see what I mean?

Vicky/ AS adult

Gareeth

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Oct 9, 2002, 10:20:43 PM10/9/02
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"Vicky" <eye-e...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3DA4DEF8...@attbi.com...

>
>> The psychiatrists that I have talked to think that if you have
> children and are married you cannot be Aspergers. Unless you are a man
> because I guess it is their thought that a man can get away with
> ignoring their children and a woman cannot do this. Therefore if you are
> a man and ignore your children you could be a aspie but if you are a
> woman you can't be a Aspie.
>
Well I have seen professionals interpret the significant impairment in
social and occupational functioning to mean exactly that. Would get
frustrating for sure though. I am not married though and have a lousy job
for my intelligence and education so I am safe for now :p

Gareeth


Vicky

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Oct 9, 2002, 10:42:37 PM10/9/02
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Well I was fortunate to find a Lady Psychologist a few years back who
worked with kids on the spectrum who dxed me with Aspergers. She is no
longer in private practice now but is the Psychologist for a school that
is especially for aspie kids called Orion Academy.

I have a very weird intelligence profile that practically renders
me incapable of working not to mention anxiety issues that I have.

I hate to say it but my husband has done a good portion of raising my
kids. I am somewhat affectionate and this helps but it was very
difficult for me when they were babies as it became a sensory
overloading experience with to much contact. I had two failed marriages
before that and had kids from each marriage and didn't get to raise
those kids as circumstances played out and because I was/ am incapable
of living on my own.
My learning disabilities make it almost impossible for me to decode
what is asked of the kids homework and I could not even help my kids
with 1st grade math (that is age 7).

I sought help for depression from Psychiatrists a year or two after
my dx of aspergers and became very frustrated with the attitude of non
acceptance of my dx of aspergers from them, and I have been to a few.

Vicky

sggaB

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Oct 9, 2002, 11:06:44 PM10/9/02
to

My autism dx came primarily from a psychiatrist who specializes in ADD
(and has an ADD dx himself), and who had researched autism thoroughly
(including meeting people considered HFA) and gave me a lot of tests. A
bad neuropsychologist (I didn't know how bad he was until I stopped seeing
him and started hearing what he said about me behind my back, but my
friends already knew he was bad) did weigh in, but did so on the side of
"not labeling me" and only giving me an NOS diagnosis (not just for
autism, but for everything).

--
sggaB
Autistic Spectrum Code, v1.0
AA! dpu s-:+ a-- c+(++) p(+) t--- f--- S--(++)@ p?@ e-(+)@ h- r--@ n--
i++ P m--(++)@ M

sggaB

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Oct 9, 2002, 11:17:06 PM10/9/02
to
In article <3DA4DEF8...@attbi.com>, Vicky wrote:

> There is only one multidisipinraly place here in the bay area who
> use a variety of Drs on their staff to do a dx and that is for children
> and adolecences only and that uesed to be affiliated with Stanford
> University.

I've found Stanford University's medical place to be usually pretty bad at
diagnosis. They're one of the people who have either disbelieved me
because of my psych record or (when I was there as a psych patient)
declared me to be making stuff up in order to become a psych patient. (I
didn't *want* to be a psych patient, and they'd barely observed me. I
think they made this judgement based on the fact that behavior
modification -- of a kind that involved withholding my phone and visitor
"privileges" -- made me less likely to try to run out the door of their
children's hospital.)

In other departments, they've told my mother (a respiratory therapist)
that she didn't have asthma, and they ignored my pain complaints as
irrelevant. The only time they got anything right was when they saw me
for something completely unrelated and declared that I must have "some
kind of pervasive developmental disorder" in my report.

They're primarily a research/teaching hospital, and their dealings with
patients often leave a lot to be desired.

> At San Francisco there is Bryna Siegel Ph.D. a psychologist
> at Langely porter hospital a part of San Francisco university hospital
> and she used to do adult dxes occasionally but does not offer that
> anymore unless it is a special case for the state I imagine. Her PDD
> clinic is not multidisciplinary either and she is not a psychiatrist but
> a psychologist who carries alot of weight with her dxes if you are
> trying to get services although she rarely will dx a high functioning
> Autistic as Autistic but PDD-NOS.

Yeah. That's one of her more aggravating traits, and it's why I've never
gone to see her. (I want to someday get independent confirmation of my
dx, in case something ever happens to the psychiatrist who diagnosed me
and they want someone to provide evidence.)

> The psychiatrists that I have talked to think that if you have
> children and are married you cannot be Aspergers. Unless you are a man
> because I guess it is their thought that a man can get away with
> ignoring their children and a woman cannot do this. Therefore if you are
> a man and ignore your children you could be a aspie but if you are a
> woman you can't be a Aspie.

I'm sure that's news to Liane Holliday Willey and all the other
married-with-children female aspies.

There *is* someone in the Bay Area who diagnosed me with autism. He's a
child and adolescent psychiatrist, but he continued to see me as an adult
and I suspect he would see adults for something like this, since he
himself is an ADD adult. But he's not part of a team that diagnoses
autism as a matter of course, since his specialty is ADD. He's in
Belmont.

growi...@hotmail.com

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Oct 10, 2002, 12:20:08 AM10/10/02
to
Vicky <eye-e...@attbi.com> wrote:
> The psychiatrists that I have talked to think that if you have
> children and are married you cannot be Aspergers. Unless you are a man
> because I guess it is their thought that a man can get away with
> ignoring their children and a woman cannot do this. Therefore if you are
> a man and ignore your children you could be a aspie but if you are a
> woman you can't be a Aspie.

That seems backwards to me... After all, one of the problems I had
with dating was the requirement for the male to ask a female out. I
couldn't have done that (and, in fact, didn't with the one person I
went out with - she asked me). The famale just has to say "Yes, I'll
go out with you", which I would think would be easier for an autistic
similar to myself.

--
Joel

Vicky

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Oct 10, 2002, 12:48:24 AM10/10/02
to

Sorry Joel, I don't understand what you are saying in reference to
what I said.

But I can tell you that yes what I was told was not accurate and from
a unknowelgeable person.

Vicky

Vicky

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Oct 10, 2002, 1:25:01 AM10/10/02
to

sggaB wrote:
>
> In article <3DA4DEF8...@attbi.com>, Vicky wrote:
>
> > There is only one multidisipinraly place here in the bay area who
> > use a variety of Drs on their staff to do a dx and that is for children
> > and adolecences only and that uesed to be affiliated with Stanford
> > University.
>
> I've found Stanford University's medical place to be usually pretty bad at
> diagnosis. They're one of the people who have either disbelieved me
> because of my psych record or (when I was there as a psych patient)
> declared me to be making stuff up in order to become a psych patient.

The Dr that I know of that dxes people out of Stanford is on their
research team on Autism. Her name is Dr. Linda Lotspiech. The other
place that is multi disciplinary was called Children's Health council
and it was not part of the hospital any longer when I contacted them in
1998.

Did you get seen by Linda Lotspiech?


(I
> didn't *want* to be a psych patient, and they'd barely observed me. I
> think they made this judgement based on the fact that behavior
> modification -- of a kind that involved withholding my phone and visitor
> "privileges" -- made me less likely to try to run out the door of their
> children's hospital.)

Let me get this straight. You were a in patient at their hospital
but they declared that you were making things up to be a patient of
theirs? Sorry if I am not understanding this well.


> In other departments, they've told my mother (a respiratory therapist)
> that she didn't have asthma, and they ignored my pain complaints as
> irrelevant. The only time they got anything right was when they saw me
> for something completely unrelated and declared that I must have "some
> kind of pervasive developmental disorder" in my report.

Hmm that is strange sort of, but I can relate to not being taken
seriously and I always thought it was me. I thought I wasn't
communicating things in a way they could understand. Later I realized
or thought that I had to come up with a ready made dx of a physical
problem in order to get treatment. And a few times that was kind of
what happened. I have never been treated for anything at Stanford.



> They're primarily a research/teaching hospital, and their dealings with
> patients often leave a lot to be desired.

When I lived in Sacramento they had UCD medical hospital. At the time
I went it was like dealing with county services (which are bad) But I
have heard that their cardiac unit was the Best in town and Kaiser used
to send there Cardiac patients there at one time.



> > At San Francisco there is Bryna Siegel Ph.D. a psychologist
> > at Langely porter hospital a part of San Francisco university hospital
> > and she used to do adult dxes occasionally but does not offer that
> > anymore unless it is a special case for the state I imagine. Her PDD
> > clinic is not multidisciplinary either and she is not a psychiatrist but
> > a psychologist who carries alot of weight with her dxes if you are
> > trying to get services although she rarely will dx a high functioning
> > Autistic as Autistic but PDD-NOS.
>
> Yeah. That's one of her more aggravating traits, and it's why I've never
> gone to see her. (I want to someday get independent confirmation of my
> dx, in case something ever happens to the psychiatrist who diagnosed me
> and they want someone to provide evidence.)

Its very difficult to find Drs. who dx adults. I know of one Lady in
Berkeley who does dxes. Her name is Mary Ann Vigilanti PHD. But she had
a hard time figuring me out :) But she told me I had Brain damage, a
learning disorder, an anxiety disorder and said that I presented like
someone on the spectrum but didn't have the IQ profile of someone with a
Aspergers dx, she said that my visual processing was better than
auditory and that Aspies have the opposite processing style?

Well anyway she didn't rule Asperegers out, but she kept changing
her mind, first she said yes then she said no and then she said I don't
know :-) Well I already had a dx of aspergers but wanted a second
opinion from her and boy did I get one that confused me!

> There *is* someone in the Bay Area who diagnosed me with autism. He's a
> child and adolescent psychiatrist, but he continued to see me as an adult
> and I suspect he would see adults for something like this, since he
> himself is an ADD adult. But he's not part of a team that diagnoses
> autism as a matter of course, since his specialty is ADD. He's in
> Belmont.

Well sometimes that Dr Mary Ann Vigilanti will tell other potential
people on the spectrum to call me and she gives them my phone number for
references. There was a Dr I found for one Guy in the Palo Alto area, a
woman who does adult dxes but I would seriously have to dig though my
piles of stuff to find her name.

Vicky

growi...@hotmail.com

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Oct 10, 2002, 1:35:06 AM10/10/02
to
Vicky <eye-e...@attbi.com> wrote:
> Sorry Joel, I don't understand what you are saying in reference to
> what I said.

I was expressing agreement by saying that I think it would be more
likely for a female autistic to enter a romantic relationship then
for a male autistic to, although I could be missing some major
part of the whole relationship equation!

> But I can tell you that yes what I was told was not accurate and from
> a unknowelgeable person.

We agree, then. :)

--
Joel

sggaB

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Oct 10, 2002, 2:16:33 AM10/10/02
to
In article <3DA50DB7...@attbi.com>, Vicky wrote:

> sggaB wrote:

>> In article <3DA4DEF8...@attbi.com>, Vicky wrote:

>> > There is only one multidisipinraly place here in the bay area who
>> > use a variety of Drs on their staff to do a dx and that is for children
>> > and adolecences only and that uesed to be affiliated with Stanford
>> > University.

>> I've found Stanford University's medical place to be usually pretty bad at
>> diagnosis. They're one of the people who have either disbelieved me
>> because of my psych record or (when I was there as a psych patient)
>> declared me to be making stuff up in order to become a psych patient.

> The Dr that I know of that dxes people out of Stanford is on their
> research team on Autism. Her name is Dr. Linda Lotspiech. The other
> place that is multi disciplinary was called Children's Health council
> and it was not part of the hospital any longer when I contacted them in
> 1998.

I haven't seen their research team on autism. I've avoided Stanford ever
since I got off my parents' insurance (my dad worked at SLAC.)

> Did you get seen by Linda Lotspiech?

No, and I won't go near Stanford hospital unless it's necessary to save
my life.

> (I
>> didn't *want* to be a psych patient, and they'd barely observed me. I
>> think they made this judgement based on the fact that behavior
>> modification -- of a kind that involved withholding my phone and visitor
>> "privileges" -- made me less likely to try to run out the door of their
>> children's hospital.)

> Let me get this straight. You were a in patient at their hospital
> but they declared that you were making things up to be a patient of
> theirs? Sorry if I am not understanding this well.

I was a forced inpatient at their children's hospital (being held while
others were deciding whether to send me to a group home or a state
hospital) and they declared that I was faking psychiatric symptoms for the
sole purpose of being a patient (there's a diagnosis called factitious
disorder that means that -- if they thought I was making it up and had
*any* other reason, they would have diagnosed malingering). This
declaration was made by a student doctor I barely talked to. (What really
puzzles me is that they came up with hard evidence of neurological
problems during a thorough investigation while I was there, and they had
previous evidence from several other neurological tests.)

>> In other departments, they've told my mother (a respiratory therapist)
>> that she didn't have asthma, and they ignored my pain complaints as
>> irrelevant. The only time they got anything right was when they saw me
>> for something completely unrelated and declared that I must have "some
>> kind of pervasive developmental disorder" in my report.

> Hmm that is strange sort of, but I can relate to not being taken
> seriously and I always thought it was me. I thought I wasn't
> communicating things in a way they could understand. Later I realized
> or thought that I had to come up with a ready made dx of a physical
> problem in order to get treatment. And a few times that was kind of
> what happened. I have never been treated for anything at Stanford.

I've been to Stanford's children's hospital, my GP was at Stanford, I got
my weekly blood tests there, and I was at the genetics clinic once. None
of those experiences were positive, nor were most of the experiences of my
parents there.

>> They're primarily a research/teaching hospital, and their dealings with
>> patients often leave a lot to be desired.

> When I lived in Sacramento they had UCD medical hospital. At the time
> I went it was like dealing with county services (which are bad) But I
> have heard that their cardiac unit was the Best in town and Kaiser used
> to send there Cardiac patients there at one time.

Yeah, sometimes hospitals have one good department. I kept hearing about
Stanford "Don't worry, if you're going to a different department it will
be different," but for me it wasn't different. (Stanford is probably good
for some kinds of very obscure physical medical procedures. I don't know
that they're all that great for anything else, but if they are I haven't
seen it.)

>> > At San Francisco there is Bryna Siegel Ph.D. a psychologist
>> > at Langely porter hospital a part of San Francisco university hospital
>> > and she used to do adult dxes occasionally but does not offer that
>> > anymore unless it is a special case for the state I imagine. Her PDD
>> > clinic is not multidisciplinary either and she is not a psychiatrist but
>> > a psychologist who carries alot of weight with her dxes if you are
>> > trying to get services although she rarely will dx a high functioning
>> > Autistic as Autistic but PDD-NOS.

>> Yeah. That's one of her more aggravating traits, and it's why I've never
>> gone to see her. (I want to someday get independent confirmation of my
>> dx, in case something ever happens to the psychiatrist who diagnosed me
>> and they want someone to provide evidence.)

> Its very difficult to find Drs. who dx adults. I know of one Lady in
> Berkeley who does dxes. Her name is Mary Ann Vigilanti PHD. But she had
> a hard time figuring me out :) But she told me I had Brain damage, a
> learning disorder, an anxiety disorder and said that I presented like
> someone on the spectrum but didn't have the IQ profile of someone with a
> Aspergers dx, she said that my visual processing was better than
> auditory and that Aspies have the opposite processing style?

There's no proven difference between what professionals call HFA and AS in
adults -- it's all a matter of professional opinion. Simplistic things
like auditory vs. visual processing being better have nothing to do with
it; we all have different sensory configurations. (In fact, severe visual
processing problems have been shown in people who have never been
considered 'high functioning' at all.) There is no specific IQ profile
for any of the DSM subtypes of autism, and research on such things has
been contradictory.

> Well anyway she didn't rule Asperegers out, but she kept changing
> her mind, first she said yes then she said no and then she said I don't
> know :-) Well I already had a dx of aspergers but wanted a second
> opinion from her and boy did I get one that confused me!

Yeah, it sounds confusing.

>> There *is* someone in the Bay Area who diagnosed me with autism. He's a
>> child and adolescent psychiatrist, but he continued to see me as an adult
>> and I suspect he would see adults for something like this, since he
>> himself is an ADD adult. But he's not part of a team that diagnoses
>> autism as a matter of course, since his specialty is ADD. He's in
>> Belmont.

> Well sometimes that Dr Mary Ann Vigilanti will tell other potential
> people on the spectrum to call me and she gives them my phone number for
> references. There was a Dr I found for one Guy in the Palo Alto area, a
> woman who does adult dxes but I would seriously have to dig though my
> piles of stuff to find her name.

Interesting. (Then of course there's the question of payment, which I
keep forgetting.)

Kalen

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Oct 10, 2002, 4:08:22 AM10/10/02
to
Gareeth wrote:
> "Vicky" <eye-e...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:3DA4DEF8...@attbi.com...
>
>>> The psychiatrists that I have talked to think that if you have
>>
>>children and are married you cannot be Aspergers. Unless you are a man
>>because I guess it is their thought that a man can get away with
>>ignoring their children and a woman cannot do this. Therefore if you are
>>a man and ignore your children you could be a aspie but if you are a
>>woman you can't be a Aspie.
>
> Well I have seen professionals interpret the significant impairment in
> social and occupational functioning to mean exactly that.

Which is rather stupid considering even some of the aspies diagnosed *by
Hans Asperger himself* are married and have children.

Kalen

dickinson

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Oct 10, 2002, 6:08:52 AM10/10/02
to

<growi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:top.poster.2....@bigsky.antelope.net...
> Vicky <eye-e...@attbi.com> wrote:
<snip>

>I think it would be more
> likely for a female autistic to enter a romantic relationship then
> for a male autistic to, although I could be missing some major
> part of the whole relationship equation!
<snip>

The only time that I have tried to strike up a relationship with a female is
when I was drunk, and even then, I could count on one hand how many times
I've attempted.

I've not been short of relationships though........nearly all of them
instigated by the female. On some occasions I've got involved purely because
I didn't want to hurt the other parties feelings by rejecting her......it'd
be funny, if it hadn't been so tragic on a few occasions.

kev........now playing Richard & Linda Thompson - A Sad Affair

Gareeth

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Oct 10, 2002, 6:58:58 AM10/10/02
to

"Kalen" <ne...@paradox.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3DA53576...@paradox.freeserve.co.uk...
:

>Which is rather stupid considering even some of the aspies diagnosed *by
> Hans Asperger himself* are married and have children.
>
Yeah but Hans didn't have to abide by the criteria in the DSM.
It is stupid although often the aspies I have the most trouble relating too
are those that have been successful socially and occupationally. Especially
opcupationally I guess.

Gareeth


Gareeth

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Oct 10, 2002, 7:07:08 AM10/10/02
to

<growi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:top.poster.2....@bigsky.antelope.net...
> Vicky <eye-e...@attbi.com> wrote:
> I was expressing agreement by saying that I think it would be more
> likely for a female autistic to enter a romantic relationship then
> for a male autistic to, although I could be missing some major
> part of the whole relationship equation!
>
>
I think you are probably right about the thing about having to do the
asking. A few years back a guy asked me out while I was in the hockey card
store I go to. (Okay technically it sells other cards too but this is Canada
eh) I went out and we had a reasonably good evening despite all my anxiety
about it. He then lost my number. When I didn't hear from him in the week
after the date I assumed I had missed some cue that it was not going as well
from his end. About three weeks after the initial date I came down from work
to find a note on the window of my door that said he had lost my number but
had had a really good time and could I please call him. I hate using phines
with someone I barely know. I couldn't call him. I tried to guilt myself
into it thinking that he probably would think he had done somthing wrong or
wasn't enough of something. If every date I ever had the onus had been on me
to initiate I would be even more of a hermit than I have been. Usually I
think it is easier to be the male but in the courtship dept being a female
is easier.
If you are an autistic female though there are still some pretty significant
social hurdles that come after the whole someone has to do the asking part
of the process.

Gareeth


Kalen

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Oct 12, 2002, 4:59:38 PM10/12/02
to

Me too. Although those who have had much experience (not necessarily
"success") with dating also /tend/ to be those I am less likely to
relate to in other ways as well. I think my apparent social success
(partner, kids) may be different from many of those who have gone about
those things through more conventional routes. Basically, it hardly
takes the usual social skills to catch an aspie man on the internet the
way it does to even meet one (let alone "settle down with") by almost
any other means.

Kalen

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