This guy is talking about it -
http://www.adhdnews.com/testforum/test5114.htm
But I have a feeling that it will not be safe!?!??!!
For me, Dexedrine and Ritalin help in different ways.. It would be
awesome to try them together
I have done extensive searches on www.pubmed.com for Medical Articles
and on Google. I cant find ANY dicussion of taking both together.
Hi Cris,
I emailed you back.
RL
QUOTE FROM THE SITE:
START QUOTE:
I wish I owned or started my own pharmaceutical company since I
have so many ideas on how to improve the somewhat dissapointing array
of psychiatric medications available out there.
Doctors never prescribe Ritalin & Dex/Adderall together, it is
never even mentioned as a possibility in medical literature. Also this
combo is never prescribed because these are Schedule II medications
tracked/recorded by the DEA & a prescription for two Schedule II ADD
drugs to the same person looks suspicious, & also perhaps because the
combination might cause an unpredictable rise in blood pressure- in
other words the doctor is afraid of liability/malpractice & the DEA.
But, since they act by different mechanisms, if you combined one of
the amphetamines- either Dexedrine/Dextrostat or Adderall- AND/WITH
RITALIN, taking into account their time to peak blood level (tmax) &
duration of action the Dex or Adderall + Ritalin combo would create a
"super double whammy" affect on dopamine potentiation!
The reason is that in low to normal dosages the amphetamines
Dexedrine/Dextrostat & Adderall primarily RELEASE newly
stored/synthesized Dopamine & Norepinphrine into the neuronal space.
Ritalin on the other hand, is a dopamine & norepinephrine REUPUTAKE
BLOCKER, & fairly similar in its actions to Cocaine (devoid of local
anasthetic activity) but superior in that it is much longer lasting,
less reinforcing, & is "remarkably non-toxic."
When dopamine & norepinephrine are subject to 'reuputake' into
nerve terminals, they are both are destroyed or inactivated by the
'janitorial' enzymes MAO, COM-T, & even the process of reuputake
itself.
So if you add Dex & Ritalin together, it is not 1 + 1= 2 but a more
potent dopaminergic combination.
Note: if the above explanation is confusing, here is a simple
analogy. Imagine you are looking at a reservoir with a dam at the
bottom and a stream up top.
Dex/Adderall cause the dopamine/norepinphrine 'stream' to flood,
filling the reservoir (the neuronal space) with more 'active' dopamine
& norepinephrine.
Ritalin & Cocaine lock all the dam overflow gates & fortify the dam
preventing any 'active' "reservoir water" (=dopamine & norepinephrine)
from escaping/overflowing the reservoir. When the Ritalin or Cocaine
wear off, excess or aged dopamine or norepinephrine escape the resevoir
& are killed downstream by evil knife wielding gang-member bandits of
the notorious MAO or COMT krews.
The city council might step in & say its time to rid our streets of
these evil gangs MAO & COMT.
To do that they bring in one of the big bad super cop anti-gang
units called "Parnate, Nardil, or Selegeline/L-Deprenyl". These three
anti-gang units wipe out the MAO & COMT gangs quick but then the
norepinephrine & dopamine blocks of the city go 'wild in the streets'
on their dangerously potentiated Dex/Adderall/Ritalin & form a truce in
order to create a bigger, badder, more lethal gang called
"hypertension" that attacks the heart of the City causing the power to
go out (for good).
3 Beers...........
END QUOTE
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020525/msgs/108207.html
>
> QUOTE FROM THE SITE:
>
> START QUOTE:
> I wish I owned or started my own pharmaceutical company since I
> have so many ideas on how to improve the somewhat dissapointing array
> of psychiatric medications available out there.
>
> Doctors never prescribe Ritalin & Dex/Adderall together, it is
> never even mentioned as a possibility in medical literature. Also this
> combo is never prescribed because these are Schedule II medications
> tracked/recorded by the DEA & a prescription for two Schedule II ADD
> drugs to the same person looks suspicious, & also perhaps because the
> combination might cause an unpredictable rise in blood pressure- in
> other words the doctor is afraid of liability/malpractice & the DEA.
If that were really the case then they would not prescribe Adderall either,
as it is a mixture of _four_ different stimulants. Adding methylphenidate
to the mix and adjusting the dosage accordingly would not change much from
a liability viewpoint. I suspect that it either (a) it has just never
occurred to anybody to try it or (b) when they tried it that rise in blood
pressure was sufficiently unpredictable and sufficiently severe to make it
seem a Really Bad Idea.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
I am 35 and was recently diagnosed with severe tempral ADD. I now take
concerta and an SSRI called lexapro.
Concerta is for the normal ADD symptoms and the Lexapro is for a very mild
depression. Seems to work well for me.
I AM ABSOLUTELY STUNNED.
un-believable!!
I took my normal dose of Ritalin with a LOW dose of dexedrine
THIS WAS SO BENEFICIAL IT IS BEYOND BELIEF!!!!
(please note: this was not approved by a doctor and could be VERY
dangerous)
Interesting, so what you are telling me is that the potentiation of the
drugs ritalin and dexedrine is not A + B, but A * B.
Where A is the effect of ritalin and...
B is the effect of dexedrine?
Also, the high blood pressure problem is probably caused by adrenaline
(epinephrine) release from the ANS.
Adderall does NOT contain methylphenidate, so it's not the same as this
combination.
Sounds interesting...
O.K. I am NOT a physician.
... Nor, do I suggest that you should try this at home
... or any other nonsense
Notwithstanding these disclaimers ...
InMyOwnExperience, the effects of Ritalin, Dexedrine, Nadolol, caffine,
nicotine, SSRI's and lot's of other stuff are individual, specific and
different.
Yes, some drugs can have a multiplicative effect on one or several of
the compounds in the 'mix'. This may even be so in the
Ritalin-Dexadrine mix.
Nevertheless, InMyOwnHonest and personal experience; each stimulant is
quite different in it's action.
As I experience it, the amplified experience is a result of synergy
rather than re-enforcement of any single specific component. It is NOT
like taking 3 times as much Ritalin ... or 3 times as much Dexadrine
... or 3 times as much of both.
It is a different experience, in and of itself.
Consult with your prescribing physician!
A + B
And not by
A * B
either, but rather:
((A+X) * (B+X) / X) - X
Where X is a constant value.
So, if X=100 and A = 10 and B = 10
the potentiation effect is:
((10+50) * (10 + 50) / 100) - 100
22
So for X = 100 the effect is the same as 21.
So if you took 10 mg of ritalin and 5 of dexedrine the effects would be
the same as 22 mg of ritalin. I think... You get it?
Ok my theory is:
Suppost there is 100 dopamine in your brain... And you take 5 mg of
ritalin and 2.5 of dexedrine. 5 mg of ritalin adds 40 dopamine to the
100 already there.... So... And 2.5 mg of dexedrine also adds 40
dopamine. This is just a simple theory!
For X = 100 and A = 40 and B = 40
the effect together is calculated with:
((X + A) * (X + B)) / X - X = (140*140) / 100 - 100 = 96
So the effect is not 80, but 96. So the amount you took is just as
potent as 12 mg of ritalin and not 10 mg. I am not sure thought.... I
am not a scientist. end disclaimer.
Yes. Agreed. Understood and allllll that ...
My own experience tells me that each stimulant is rather different in
it's psychotropic effect.
The cheap and nasty impression that comes across to the public from the
medical community is of the format ...
'Use a stimulant and the problem of ADD goes bye-bye's ...'
Personally, I think that this is most unfair on those who have ADD.
"Hey ~ ! Ms.
Joan Didion?"
~ Folly
"My own experience tells me
That each stimulant is rather different
In it's psychotropic effect."
~ Raving
"O, yes, I know ~ You, too, took
Amphetamines,
Before
AD[Hi!]D became a common diagnosis.
Before
All that ..."
~ Twittering
"The cheap and nasty impression
That comes across to the public
>From the medical community
Is of the format ...
'Use a stimulant and the problem of ADD
Goes bye-bye's ...'"
~ Raving
"... to all that."
~ Folly
"Personally,
I think this is most unfair
On those who have ADD."
~ Raving
"Heck, yeah."
~ Folly
"So, what's
Next? Slouch to Bethelehem?"
~ Twittering
> I tried this today.
>
> I AM ABSOLUTELY STUNNED.
>
> un-believable!!
>
> I took my normal dose of Ritalin with a LOW dose of dexedrine
>
> THIS WAS SO BENEFICIAL IT IS BEYOND BELIEF!!!!
>
This post worries me a bit. The normal reaction to a good meds combo is
relief and even happiness, but not all caps and several exclamation
points. Is it possible you could triggering a bipolar reaction here?
I think winning the lottery would most definately trigger a bipolar
reaction, but I never win the lottery so I don't have to worry about
that.
> it's psychotropic effect.
Can you explain that more? What is exactly the difference? Is it how
you feel?
No. He did it before. Look at the topic (subject) text.
Interesting observation. I notice this in myself.
Even more interesting ....
The emotional excess which is overtly expressed is an accurate
representation of who I inherently "am" with/without stimulants.
I also notice that the people that I know who have ADD are very much
animated and larger than life people.
In Usenet, people who are supposedly have ADD often come across as very
flat and ordinary. ... very different from real life.
So if you were a policeman, then ritalin is your aiming guide and
dexedrine is your gun?
Yep. ...
Now that I think of it, by way of refinement; the Ritalin acts to
pan/swivel/tilt the aiming guide. The dexedrine serves to 'reduce' the
field of view of the aiming sight ... and lighten up the squeeze on the
trigger.
On the down side, the Ritalin serves to make one 'distractable' and the
Dexedrine serve to weaken the finger muscle pulling the trigger.
Both serve considerably to slow things down by condensing reality.
There is a contradiction. With stimulants, I can be far more
deliberate, focussed and self directed.
Yet the improvement in sensitivity to 'acting' is met by a
sensitization of 're-acting'. If it is DIFFICULT to 'act' then I get
locked up in paralysis and stress. It cuts both ways! It can also be
exhausting because one spins one's wheels thinking too much depleting
neurotransmitters (?).
As for SSRI's? ... given my moderate experience with 'em, I HATE them.
For me they seem to work by introducing 'pink-noise'. They blot out the
ability to focus on anything.
"Cursory consderation" is what results. ... A genuine 'I don't give a
fuck about anything, anymore ...' type of bloody mindedness.
'Impulsivity' goes through the roof.
Contrary to popular opinion, my ADD makes it very difficult for me to
be impulsive. By that I mean, to close off awareness and LET GO
HEADLESS.
I come across as incredibly 'impulsive' to others ... and myself in
'retrospect' ... because I make CONTEXTUAL DECISIONS.
Example: ... If I have money in my pocket then it is money earmarked to
'spend'. End of thought. At the first opportunity I spend it. ... I
had written the money off before I began consideration of should I or
shouldn't I?
It's a contexual decision. .. the money is pre-spent. 'Spending it for
real' is after the fact.
... in the "Close off awareness and LET GO HEADLESS", I am making
decisions on the fly whilst holding a narrow, restricted field of
awareness. ... very goal oriented. ... very blinkered. ... very
RECKLESS and DIFFICULT for me.
Hope this helps rather than confuses
RL
Now I take 30mg of Ritalin a day WITH 15mg of dexedrine.
Kind of a EUREKA !
So, I did mean to convey relief and even happiness, but also EUREKA
as no-one has ever suggested it to me before.
Disclaimer: again, I am not a doctor or physician. Do NOT try a drug
combo just because someone suggests it to you or because you are
curious. (I have been taught pharmacology at university level, I'll
soon be able to prescribe.....)
> hehe I did the CAPITALS and !!!! just for emphasis.
>
> Kind of a EUREKA !
>
> So, I did mean to convey relief and even happiness, but also EUREKA
> as no-one has ever suggested it to me before.
>
OK, cool.
Thanks Cris, after 4 months, somebody finally noticed.
At least that ...
It is unbelievable - the effect.
(maybe no-one listens because you call yourself a Raving-Loony... just
kidding lol..)
i actually didn't realize raving was taking them together. it does
sound neat to try. did some one mention taking adderall and rit
together? i'm feeling a little guinea piggish. :)
kate
He said that taking Ritalin and Dexedrine together would kill me - it
is very unsafe!!!
I haven't told thim that I have already done this.
I really need to know if other doctors approve of it. I spoke to a
pharmacist today. He said that there is a small amout of interaction
between the two drugs - if it was done it would be done under
CONTROLLED conditions (I guess that means very low doses of both drugs
very closely supervised by a doctor). [I understand the real danger is
taking too much which could be fatal!]
Also I'm an adult. Don't even think about doing this in children!!
or click
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/Interaction/ChooseDrugs/1,4109,,00.html
and select "Ritalin" and "Dexedrine"
- Also I now know there ARE doctors who say it is perfectly SAFE to
take Ritalin and Dexedrine together.
Why in inconsistency? ANY IDEAS ANYONE?
Guys - I am sorry to keep talking about this -- but this is HUGE. I am
taking a very small dose of ritalin with a very small dose of dexedrine
and the effects are FAR FAR better than taking together, kind of a
1+1=3 effect.
I need to speak to the psychiastrists in the UK/US who are experts in
the field. I need a definitive answer: is this drug combination safe or
not?
Statistically or individually? As an individual you should monitor
your BP and for symptoms of irritability, paranoia, depression,
anxiety etc. If the drugs haven't been tested together no doctor can
give you a definitive answer on safety.
_g
The short-acting works much better for my son. The long-acting is expensive
and doesn't produce good results for him, but acts longer so it keeps him up
late at night. I have used both and haven't noticed much if any difference.
"p fogg" <pf...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gHgle.289$Bk3.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
As I said, I have personally, being an adult, used both, and I don't notice
a difference between the long-acting and the short-acting, but the LA
version costs a great deal more.