Four Studies posted
Jan Drew
By....
>New York State Psychiatric Institute
>Pediatric Psychopharmacology Unit of the Psychiatry Department
>Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences
> Child Adolesc Psychiatry
Sad that.
mark.p...@gmail.com
What is sad about it? If I were you, I would rejoice in that you
finally learned how to count to four.
tracey3121
Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
Isn't there enough grief and suffering in the world already?
Its upsetting to see this constant bickering between you when there are
people without food let alone a computer to argue on.
Sorry !!!! but I want support and advice from you not an added burden. You
may get a 'buzz' from it but it really upsets me after an already upsetting
day.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the 'bickering' but the racist and personal
abuse is very unpleasant.
I know that I don't need to read any of it, but I am looking for new ideas
so must read all of it.
Come On You Guys
Be Nice ????
"markp...@lumbercartel.com" <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146271903.8...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
tracey3121 wrote:
> I'm sure it has been said before but here goes ....
>
> Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
> Come On You Guys
>
> Be Nice ????
Most of us would love it if they would just killfile each other. But
they're each on a mission.
Jan finds everything she can related to issues she's taken up, one of
which is ADHD. She posts all articles found, whether they are valid or
not.
Mark takes it upon himself to point out if posted articles contain
invalid and/or harmful data. He is extremely blunt in posting his
opinions, especially if the articles contain data that can harm kids
with ADHD in any way whatsoever.
Jan takes exception to Mark pointing out the problems with the articles
she posts.
Mark takes exception to Jan posting articles that contain material that
could cause harm to kids with challenges.
So they go back and forth with the insults.
It doesn't help matters any that the archives show that Jan has indeed
made comments re: anyone who isn't of her particular faith. That's
just fuel for the fire.
It doesn't help matters that the archives show that Mark is extremely
harsh in his opinions toward *ANYONE* who posts material that can pose
any sort of difficulty for any kid with challenges. That also adds
fuel to the fire.
And of course, anyone who asks for it to stop is called a "liar."
Kitten
Jan Drew
"Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe" <st_brigids...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:1146351681.5...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> tracey3121 wrote:
>> I'm sure it has been said before but here goes ....
>>
>> Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
> <snipped>
>> Come On You Guys
>>
>> Be Nice ????
>
>
> Most of us would love it if they would just killfile each other. But
> they're each on a mission.
>
> Jan finds everything she can related to issues she's taken up, one of
> which is ADHD. She posts all articles found, whether they are valid or
> not.
No, I do not. You have no idea of what I find.
Which are not valid?
>
> Mark takes it upon himself to point out if posted articles contain
> invalid and/or harmful data. He is extremely blunt in posting his
> opinions, especially if the articles contain data that can harm kids
> with ADHD in any way whatsoever.
Mark in fact calls names and insults, just as he did here in his remark.
If I were you, I would rejoice in that you
finally learned how to count to four.
You didn't mentioned that!
>
> Jan takes exception to Mark pointing out the problems with the articles
> she posts.
I take exception to his disruption and his twisting of the articles..YOU
chose to call them *problems*.
>
> Mark takes exception to Jan posting articles that contain material that
> could cause harm to kids with challenges.
Such as, please be specify.
To my knowledge I have posted NO articles that have contained anything that
would cause harm to
kids with challenges.
>
> So they go back and forth with the insults.
Oh?
Do show us who it is that give the majority of these insults.
>
> It doesn't help matters any that the archives show that Jan has indeed
> made comments re: anyone who isn't of her particular faith. That's
> just fuel for the fire.
Was anyone speaking of the archives in this newsgroup?
What is my particular faith?
It is INDEED YOU who is added fuel to the fire.
>
> It doesn't help matters that the archives show that Mark is extremely
> harsh in his opinions toward *ANYONE* who posts material that can pose
> any sort of difficulty for any kid with challenges. That also adds
> fuel to the fire.
FACT:
Nobody was speaking of ANY archives!
Further FACT:
Mark Probert it not exteremely *harsh*.
FACT: He is indeed a proven liar as well as a proven insulter, name caller
and trouble maker.
>
> And of course, anyone who asks for it to stop is called a "liar."
Oh?
Show us your proof.
[watch for no reply from Kitten, who has no proof for any of her
accusations]
FACT: No one is called a liar, unless they in fact have LIED!
Which has been proven right here!
>
> Kitten
>
Mark Probert
> I'm sure it has been said before but here goes ....
>
> Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
Tracey, Jan does not accept that. I would, but, I know I would be
wasting my time, and be subjected to more stalking and harassment by her.
Mark Probert
You do make some good points. I do feel that many of Jan's postings are
extermely harmful to children. In the alternative health group she
exclusively posts articles showing that vaccination is harmful, causes,
autism, etc. There was a recent post where someone posted a case report
showing that a mother developed chicken pox from her unvaccinated kids,
and then as a complication, developed necrotizing pneumonia and died.
When I pointed out that the mother was a moron and now has left three
motherless kids, Jan jumped all over that to attempt to minimize the point.
Simply put, chicken pox is not always a benign disease.
Jan Drew
"Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote :
> tracey3121 wrote:
>> I'm sure it has been said before but here goes ....
>>
>> Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
>
> Tracey, Jan does not accept that.
Oh, Yes I do.
Mark Probert
> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote :
>> tracey3121 wrote:
>>> I'm sure it has been said before but here goes ....
>>>
>>> Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
>> Tracey, Jan does not accept that.
>
> Oh, Yes I do.
OK...here goes....
I will end the name calling, etc. so long as you refrain from the same.
You will not call me a liar, etc. under any circumstances, but post why
you disagree with me, and use your own words.
I will abide by it, so long as you do.
Your choice. After this post, which is at 10:03 PM EDT, I will abide by it.
Jan Drew
"Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:9LU4g.99$pP6...@fe12.lga...
Notice how the story changes.
Diversion snipped.
>
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
Mark Probert wrote:
> <snipped>
> You do make some good points.
Gracias.
> I do feel that many of Jan's postings are
> extermely harmful to children. In the alternative health group she
> exclusively posts articles showing that vaccination is harmful, causes,
> autism, etc. There was a recent post where someone posted a case report
> showing that a mother developed chicken pox from her unvaccinated kids,
> and then as a complication, developed necrotizing pneumonia and died.
> When I pointed out that the mother was a moron and now has left three
> motherless kids, Jan jumped all over that to attempt to minimize the point.
>
> Simply put, chicken pox is not always a benign disease.
True, it is not always benign. But to call the mother a moron was,
IMO, unjustified. I know many people who struggle long and hard with
the decision of whether or not to vaccinate their children.
Some struggle with it based solely on the possibility of complications
that can (and on occasion do) arise from vaccinations. Some struggle
with the issue due to religious and/or ethical conflicts they may have
with vaccinations. To insult those who struggle with this issues does
a grave injustice, IMO.
In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD. My
family is one such family. All the children in my family received/are
receiving the full round of antibiotics. So far, only one has been
diagnosed with ASD. One has been dx'd with ADHD-C. We all show
varying degrees of the symptomology.
One of my nieces was born within 6 months of my niece dx'd with ASD.
Both had all their vaccinations on schedule, but at the time, they
lived about 200 miles apart. Did the vaccinations have any influence
on the development of ASD? Perhaps differing batches of vaccines made
a difference? Or perhaps the vaccines had absolutely nothing to do
with it. But there was enough question that the preservatives were
changed, to minimize that possibility.
There are too many questions and not enough answers.
Kitten
Jan Drew
> Jan Drew wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote :
>>> tracey3121 wrote:
>>>> I'm sure it has been said before but here goes ....
>>>>
>>>> Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
>>> Tracey, Jan does not accept that.
>>
>> Oh, Yes I do.
>
> OK...here goes....
>
> I will end the name calling, etc. so long as you refrain from the same.
I have not started the same *moron* *idiot* *stupid* facist* *asshole*
*ignorant* illiterate*
and vulgarity that I don't use.
> You will not call me a liar, etc. under any circumstances,
Poor Mark, you would like to have a free pass to lie.
That in fact does not classify as name calling it is a FACT.
I never call you a liar, unless you lie.
Nor will I change that. I will be most happy to never use the word again.
That is strictly up to you.
but post why you disagree with me, and use your own words.
I always do, and will continue, as well as tell you if you lie.
>
> I will abide by it, so long as you do.
I will abide not to call you a liar, as long as you do not lie.
>
> Your choice. After this post, which is at 10:03 PM EDT, I will abide by
> it.
Your choice not to lie.
That would be fantastic.
Jan Drew
It was off topic, by...
Mark calls so many names he can't remember, in fact he called this
dead mother an idiot.
From the website posted:
I posted this:
*the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) has received reports of
encephalitis, ataxia, pneumonia, thrombocytopenia, arthropathy and erythema
multiforme occurring after vaccination*.
JD Just might be she read that and make the decision NOT to vaccinate!!
JD Which is her RIGHT!
JD And does NOT make her an idiot.
JD It does make YOU...a despicable person for calling her one!
Furthermore, I have posted the risks of vaccinations and thimerosal.
Mark tells it twisted, as is his habit.
Ann
As you can see, Tracey, it'll never happen. Jan is the nutjob. I
just really, sincerely wish Mark would refrain from dragging her dreck
into ASAD. He thinks he's performing a public service, but isn't. You
can't make Jan see how ridiculous her position is, and constantly
dragging it back in here is just....tiring.
Mark, please, no one wants her here. I don't use killfiles, and even
if I did, it would mean killfiling you, and I would never do that.
Please??!? Stop dragging the crossposts into ASAD?
--
Ann
e-mail address is not checked
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
Ann wrote:
> <snipped>
> As you can see, Tracey, it'll never happen. Jan is the nutjob. I
> just really, sincerely wish Mark would refrain from dragging her dreck
> into ASAD. He thinks he's performing a public service, but isn't. You
> can't make Jan see how ridiculous her position is, and constantly
> dragging it back in here is just....tiring.
>
> Mark, please, no one wants her here. I don't use killfiles, and even
> if I did, it would mean killfiling you, and I would never do that.
> Please??!? Stop dragging the crossposts into ASAD?
On this most recent foray, she's done it all on her own. She even
dropped the xpst'ing on this thread,
Path:
g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!6c044f75!not-for-mail
From: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net>
Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
Subject: Four Studies posted
Mark Probert
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> <snipped>
>> You do make some good points.
>
> Gracias.
>
>> I do feel that many of Jan's postings are
>> extermely harmful to children. In the alternative health group she
>> exclusively posts articles showing that vaccination is harmful, causes,
>> autism, etc. There was a recent post where someone posted a case report
>> showing that a mother developed chicken pox from her unvaccinated kids,
>> and then as a complication, developed necrotizing pneumonia and died.
>> When I pointed out that the mother was a moron and now has left three
>> motherless kids, Jan jumped all over that to attempt to minimize the point.
>>
>> Simply put, chicken pox is not always a benign disease.
>
>
> True, it is not always benign. But to call the mother a moron was,
> IMO, unjustified. I know many people who struggle long and hard with
> the decision of whether or not to vaccinate their children.
Well, for those of us who have seen the ravages of vaccine preventable
diseases, it was a slam dunk. I recall the polio epidemics of the
1950's, and seeing kids who were damaged for life by meningitis,
measles, varicella, etc.
> Some struggle with it based solely on the possibility of complications
> that can (and on occasion do) arise from vaccinations. Some struggle
> with the issue due to religious and/or ethical conflicts they may have
> with vaccinations. To insult those who struggle with this issues does
> a grave injustice, IMO.
Perhaps. However, AFAIAC, the issue of complications is way overblown
and the issue is poisoned with intentional dysinformation. Others make
the claim that they have a ethical/religious right, and, some truly do.
However, I have also seen those people whom I graciously call
anti-vaccination liars advocate that parents use the religious/ethical,
and many people do, even though their religion and ethics says otherwise.
As for the idea of 'ethics', I consider it to be wholly unethical to
avoid vaccination for any reason except two 1) a clear medical reason,
e.g. past adverse reactions, or 2) a clearly religious one, where the
religion teaches against vaccination.
Otherwise, I do not see a valid excuse.
> In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
> well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
> towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
> yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD.
Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is, so
far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination crowd.
My
> family is one such family. All the children in my family received/are
> receiving the full round of antibiotics. So far, only one has been
> diagnosed with ASD. One has been dx'd with ADHD-C. We all show
> varying degrees of the symptomology.
However, when the unique combination of genes gets together, you can get
something.
> One of my nieces was born within 6 months of my niece dx'd with ASD.
> Both had all their vaccinations on schedule, but at the time, they
> lived about 200 miles apart. Did the vaccinations have any influence
> on the development of ASD? Perhaps differing batches of vaccines made
> a difference? Or perhaps the vaccines had absolutely nothing to do
> with it. But there was enough question that the preservatives were
> changed, to minimize that possibility.
I followed the removal of Thimerosal issue. The FDA recommendation was
based solely on the concern that the fearmongering surrounding it would
cause a decrease in the uptake of vaccination, thus adversely affecting
the herd effect, causing an increase in disease. This was happening at
the time in the Pacific Northwest with regard to outbreaks of Pertussis.
> There are too many questions and not enough answers.
Disagree. Most of the questions have been answered.
Mark Probert
It also received a report of a child turning into the Incredible Hulk,
and posted it to the system before it was questioned as being so
outrageous.
The VAERS system was also slanted by the legal profession when they
recommended that all of their clients report anything that the parents
though could have been caused by vaccines, but was not definitively linked.
> JD Just might be she read that and make the decision NOT to vaccinate!!
>
>
> JD Which is her RIGHT!
Yes, it is her right, and I never said otherwise. However, it was a poor
choice that had horrid consequences.
> JD And does NOT make her an idiot.
>
>
> JD It does make YOU...a despicable person for calling her one!
>
> Furthermore, I have posted the risks of vaccinations and thimerosal.
Yes you have. I have no recollection of you ever posting the benefits.
You do acknowledge that there are benefits, don't you?
Mark Probert
> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:sWU4g.106$pP6...@fe12.lga...
I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
>>>>> Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
>>>> Tracey, Jan does not accept that.
>>> Oh, Yes I do.
>> OK...here goes....
>>
>> I will end the name calling, etc. so long as you refrain from the same.
>
> I have not started the same *moron* *idiot* *stupid* facist* *asshole*
> *ignorant* illiterate* and vulgarity that I don't use.
>
>> You will not call me a liar, etc. under any circumstances,
>
> Poor Mark, you would like to have a free pass to lie.
Incorrect. Like I said, if I say something that you disagree with, you
are absolutely free to explain why I am wrong.
> That in fact does not classify as name calling it is a FACT.
It constitutes a major stimulus to the bickering.
> I never call you a liar, unless you lie.
You know my opinion on that.
> Nor will I change that. I will be most happy to never use the word again.
> That is strictly up to you.
>
>> but post why you disagree with me, and use your own words.
>
> I always do, and will continue, as well as tell you if you lie.
So, you do not want to have a true live and let live situation. Too bad,
for you.
I will, however, adopt that, and, when your actions are something that,
in my opinion, do not fall within 'live and let live' I will post:
Jan, doing XYZ, in my opinion, does not constitute "live and let live"
and I will explain why, if I am so inclined.
>> I will abide by it, so long as you do.
>
> I will abide not to call you a liar, as long as you do not lie.
AFAIAC, that is giving you a free pass to continue the past. Let it go.
>> Your choice. After this post, which is at 10:03 PM EDT, I will abide by
>> it.
>
> Your choice not to lie.
>
> That would be fantastic.
What would be fantastic is for you to see what just happened.
Mark Probert
I will never crosspost to asad unless there is a damn good reason to do so.
> He thinks he's performing a public service, but isn't. You
> can't make Jan see how ridiculous her position is, and constantly
> dragging it back in here is just....tiring.
>
> Mark, please, no one wants her here. I don't use killfiles, and even
> if I did, it would mean killfiling you, and I would never do that.
> Please??!? Stop dragging the crossposts into ASAD?
See above. I have even tried to eliminate asad from my responses, only
to have Jan restore them.
Short of never responding to her on AD/HD related topics, I do not have
a solution. Some of her postings cannot go unresponded to.
Ann
>Short of never responding to her on AD/HD related topics, I do not have
>a solution. Some of her postings cannot go unresponded to.
:::sigh::: I guess not. I can dream, though, can't I?
Jan Drew
"Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
>
> I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
And I am posting what was said...originally... without your added comments:
Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:sWU4g.106$pP6...@fe12.lga...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote :
>>> tracey3121 wrote:
>>>> I'm sure it has been said before but here goes ....
>>>> Couldn't you guys learn to 'live and let live'
>>> Tracey, Jan does not accept that.
>> Oh, Yes I do.
> OK...here goes....
> I will end the name calling, etc. so long as you refrain from the same.
I have not started the same *moron* *idiot* *stupid* fascist* *asshole*
*ignorant* illiterate*
and vulgarity that I don't use.
> You will not call me a liar, etc. under any circumstances,
Poor Mark, you would like to have a free pass to lie.
That in fact does not classify as name calling it is a FACT.
I never call you a liar, unless you lie.
Nor will I change that. I will be most happy to never use the word again.
That is strictly up to you.
>but post why you disagree with me, and use your own words.
I always do, and will continue, as well as tell you if you lie.
> I will abide by it, so long as you do.
I will abide not to call you a liar, as long as you do not lie.
Jan Drew
"Ann" <ann...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:6a59529u9fm83e4e2...@4ax.com...
Ann must like to hear lies and name calling.
Jan Drew
>
> Ann wrote:
>> <snipped>
>> As you can see, Tracey, it'll never happen. Jan is the nutjob. I
>> just really, sincerely wish Mark would refrain from dragging her dreck
>> into ASAD. He thinks he's performing a public service, but isn't. You
>> can't make Jan see how ridiculous her position is, and constantly
>> dragging it back in here is just....tiring.
>>
>> Mark, please, no one wants her here. I don't use killfiles, and even
>> if I did, it would mean killfiling you, and I would never do that.
>> Please??!? Stop dragging the crossposts into ASAD?
>
>
> On this most recent foray, she's done it all on her own. She even
> dropped the xpst'ing on this thread,
My..my how TERRIBLE!
Kitten seems to be looking all over for such terrible things I do.
However she refuses to answer questions..and OVERLOOKS,, Mark LIES...
While making all kinds of FALSE accusations.
> Jan finds everything she can related to issues she's taken up, one of
> which is ADHD. She posts all articles found, whether they are valid or
> not.
No, I do not. You have no idea of what I find.
Which are not valid?
> Mark takes it upon himself to point out if posted articles contain
> invalid and/or harmful data. He is extremely blunt in posting his
> opinions, especially if the articles contain data that can harm kids
> with ADHD in any way whatsoever.
Mark in fact calls names and insults, just as he did here in his remark.
If I were you, I would rejoice in that you
finally learned how to count to four.
You didn't mentioned that!
> Jan takes exception to Mark pointing out the problems with the articles
> she posts.
I take exception to his disruption and his twisting of the articles..YOU
chose to call them *problems*.
> Mark takes exception to Jan posting articles that contain material that
> could cause harm to kids with challenges.
Such as, please be specify.
To my knowledge I have posted NO articles that have contained anything that
would cause harm to
kids with challenges.
> So they go back and forth with the insults.
Oh?
Do show us who it is that give the majority of these insults.
> It doesn't help matters any that the archives show that Jan has indeed
> made comments re: anyone who isn't of her particular faith. That's
> just fuel for the fire.
Was anyone speaking of the archives in this newsgroup?
What is my particular faith?
It is INDEED YOU who is added fuel to the fire.
> It doesn't help matters that the archives show that Mark is extremely
> harsh in his opinions toward *ANYONE* who posts material that can pose
> any sort of difficulty for any kid with challenges. That also adds
> fuel to the fire.
FACT:
Nobody was speaking of ANY archives!
Further FACT:
Mark Probert it not extremely *harsh*.
FACT: He is indeed a proven liar as well as a proven insulter, name caller
and trouble maker.
> And of course, anyone who asks for it to stop is called a "liar."
Oh?
Show us your proof.
[watch for no reply from Kitten, who has no proof for any of her
accusations]
FACT: No one is called a liar, unless they in fact have LIED!
Which has been proven right here!
==
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:W6U4g.18652$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> "Coleah" wrote:
> I'm still a practicing Christian.
> Nuff said.
"Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:WSU4g.105$pP6...@fe12.lga...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>> I'm still a practicing Christian.
> Keep practicing. One day you will get it right.
===
AND
For the asad readers.
Mark Probert just posted he did not want me to call him a liar under any
circumstances....
====
What do you have to say, Kitten????????
Jan Drew
> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> <snipped>
>>> You do make some good points.
>>
>> Gracias.
>>
>>> I do feel that many of Jan's postings are
>>> extermely harmful to children. In the alternative health group she
>>> exclusively posts articles showing that vaccination is harmful, causes,
>>> autism, etc. There was a recent post where someone posted a case report
>>> showing that a mother developed chicken pox from her unvaccinated kids,
>>> and then as a complication, developed necrotizing pneumonia and died.
>>> When I pointed out that the mother was a moron and now has left three
>>> motherless kids, Jan jumped all over that to attempt to minimize the
>>> point.
>>>
>>> Simply put, chicken pox is not always a benign disease.
>>
>>
>> True, it is not always benign. But to call the mother a moron was,
>> IMO, unjustified. I know many people who struggle long and hard with
>> the decision of whether or not to vaccinate their children.
>
> Well, for those of us who have seen the ravages of vaccine preventable
> diseases, it was a slam dunk. I recall the polio epidemics of the 1950's,
> and seeing kids who were damaged for life by meningitis, measles,
> varicella, etc.
FACT: Anyone who call a dead mother an *idiot* is heartless and despicable.
>
>> Some struggle with it based solely on the possibility of complications
>> that can (and on occasion do) arise from vaccinations. Some struggle
>> with the issue due to religious and/or ethical conflicts they may have
>> with vaccinations. To insult those who struggle with this issues does
>> a grave injustice, IMO.
>
> Perhaps. However, AFAIAC,
As far as the Parents of the kids damaged for life the risks are REAL!
the issue of complications is way overblown
> and the issue is poisoned with intentional dysinformation.
Poisoning is poisoning is poisoning and is NOT
disinformation, and nothing is intentional.
Others make
> the claim that they have a ethical/religious right, and, some truly do.
> However, I have also seen those people whom I graciously call
> anti-vaccination liars
He calls them that,,,because Peter Bowditch coined the termed, actually
he is a vaccinations liar.
advocate that parents use the religious/ethical,
> and many people do, even though their religion and ethics says otherwise.
*In your opinion*
>
> As for the idea of 'ethics', I consider it to be wholly unethical to avoid
> vaccination for any reason except two 1) a clear medical reason, e.g. past
> adverse reactions, or 2) a clearly religious one, where the religion
> teaches against vaccination.
>
> Otherwise, I do not see a valid excuse.
>
>> In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
>> well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
>> towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
>> yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD.
>
> Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is, so
> far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination crowd.
Prove it.
>
> My
>> family is one such family. All the children in my family received/are
>> receiving the full round of antibiotics. So far, only one has been
>> diagnosed with ASD. One has been dx'd with ADHD-C. We all show
>> varying degrees of the symptomology.
>
> However, when the unique combination of genes gets together, you can get
> something.
You can get something no mattet what...did you have a point?
>
>> One of my nieces was born within 6 months of my niece dx'd with ASD.
>> Both had all their vaccinations on schedule, but at the time, they
>> lived about 200 miles apart. Did the vaccinations have any influence
>> on the development of ASD? Perhaps differing batches of vaccines made
>> a difference? Or perhaps the vaccines had absolutely nothing to do
>> with it. But there was enough question that the preservatives were
>> changed, to minimize that possibility.
>
> I followed the removal of Thimerosal issue. The FDA recommendation was
> based solely on the concern that the fearmongering surrounding it would
> cause a decrease in the uptake of vaccination, thus adversely affecting
> the herd effect, causing an increase in disease.
Mark has lied and lied about this for years.
The FACTS of the FDA's recommendations are well documented.
This was happening at
> the time in the Pacific Northwest with regard to outbreaks of Pertussis.
>
>> There are too many questions and not enough answers.
>
> Disagree. Most of the questions have been answered.
Many of them lies.
Mark Thorson
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20040308232333.10197.00001082%40mb-m03.aol.com
> I hate no one.
>
> The hatred shown here just happens to come from those who are Jews and
> atheists.
>
> Jan
Oh? Your use of slurs against Jews and people you believe
to be gay is not evidence of your hatred and bigotry?
------- begin examples of Jan's hatred and bigotry -------
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20020505002125.00763.00008303%40mb-bg.aol.com
What's the big deal? Calling you a jew boy was
exactly because you are a jew. The same as you
calling me a methodist or baptist girl.
It doesn't even come close to all the names
you have called and your constant trash talk.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20020504003536.28298.00007240%40mb-fe.aol.com
Little do you know anything about the
*10 Commandments* Jew Boy.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20040303001549.02894.00000796%40mb-m15.aol.com
I think you homo experience has screwed up your brain.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20031117003007.12215.00000318%40mb-m25.aol.com
In your queer mind.
In fact NOTHING you said was true.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20031112010030.13980.00000058%40mb-m15.aol.com
Killfile them both is the only answer.
They are both quite *queer*.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030322221641.09630.00000041%40mb-mf.aol.com
How sad.
And STUPID.
And QUEER.
Mark Thorson
such as the following:
To see Jan's ORIGINAL POSTING, go here:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20040310000815.25804.00001173%40mb-m01.aol.com
Jan wrote:
> >From: Mark Thorson nos...@sonic.net
> >
> >Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to discredit
> >you by making insinuations about who you are or what your
> >motives may be.
> >
> >Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the
> >pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works.
>
> That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have NEVER accused
> anyone of any such thing.
>
> So do prove your claim Mark!!!!!
>
> You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!!
----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid shills -----
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-fn.aol.com
Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing starts. Mostly
comes from paid shill Mark Probert.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-fw.aol.com
Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives off his wife.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-ct.aol.com
As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-mn.aol.com
As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names when in fact
he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his own people.
Jan Drew
Your point?
>
> The VAERS system was also slanted by the legal profession when they
> recommended that all of their clients report anything that the parents
> though could have been caused by vaccines, but was not definitively
> linked.
Changes NOT the FACT...
*the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) has received reports of
encephalitis, ataxia, pneumonia, thrombocytopenia, arthropathy and erythema
multiforme occurring after vaccination*.
These things were NOT outrageous nor made up!
>
>> JD Just might be she read that and make the decision NOT to vaccinate!!
>>
>>
>> JD Which is her RIGHT!
>
> Yes, it is her right, and I never said otherwise. However, it was a poor
> choice that had horrid consequences.
It is NOT your right to decide if it was a poor choice.
>
>> JD And does NOT make her an idiot.
>>
>>
>> JD It does make YOU...a despicable person for calling her one!
>>
>> Furthermore, I have posted the risks of vaccinations and thimerosal.
>
> Yes you have. I have no recollection of you ever posting the benefits. You
> do acknowledge that there are benefits, don't you?
My thoughts on vaccinations are clearly posted.
Jan Drew
Mark is also famous for LYING.
Mark Probert has quite a history!
Here is an example:
>Return-Path: <marla_map...@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [24.184.88.114]
>From: "Marla Maples" <marla_map...@hotmail.com> To: i...@san.rr.com
>Subject: Listserv? Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 06:50:44 -0800
>Good morning!
>I am a woman who was harmed by breast implants. I had them removed, but I
>am still sick with FM and CFS.
>I read the newsgroup where you are medciless atacked. I feel so sorry for
>you.
>I see that you have a support listserv. Can I sign up? That way, I can
>avoid reading all that horrible stuff.
>Marla Maples Medford, OR
>[24.184.88.114] Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems Corporation)
>(NETBLK-OOL-2BLK) 1111 Stewart Avenue Bethpage, NY 11797 US
>~~~~~~~~
>Return-Path: <marla_map...@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [24.184.88.114]
>From: "Marla Maples" <marla_map...@hotmail.com> To: i...@san.rr.com
>Subject: Need support! Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 05:27:43 -0800
>Dear Ilena:
>I need help dealing with my day to day problems of CFS and FM. I had
>impants, which were fortunately removed. I was sick every day for two years
>before that surgery.
>Even today, I and ill. I have CFS and FM, and I am in constant pain. How do
>women cope with this?
>I would like to join your support group and get your email messages. Please
>tell me how.
>Marla
"Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:rc55g.26$kY...@fe08.lga...
Jan Drew
Sad that.
"Ann" <ann...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:s0ga525sdvfginmad...@4ax.com...
Coleah
Because the good Christian Jan would never post crap about other people
(that would be JUDGING). Then there is the "Confused and Self Righteous"
Jan (who calls many people LIARS, but doesn't know what's really going on).
I am convinced she has multiple personalities, who are all named *Jan*.
"Mark Thorson" <nos...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44556883...@sonic.net...
Ann
>You are easily fooled..
>
Uh, no, honey, I see right through you.
>Sad that.
You're the sad one. No, actually, you aren't sad, you're pathetic.
Now, can you call me a liar, please? I don't want to be left out.
Mark Probert
> You are easily fooled..
>
> Sad that.
This post is not in the spirit of "live and let live."
Mark Probert
> Mark Probert is famous for cross posting to stirr up trouble.
>
> Mark is also famous for LYING.
>
> Mark Probert has quite a history!
This post is not in the spirit of "Live and Let Live."
Mark Probert
> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
>> I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
>
> And I am posting what was said...originally... without your added comments:
Such a post is not within the concept of 'live and let live.'
Mark Probert
That was a comment I made in response to a thread initiated by you
subject: Four Studies posted. The only content of that post was to list
the journals that published them. Those studies are right on topic for
asad, and provide information that parents and patients need to have.
One of the studies was the basis for an article you posted about
diverting medications. Interestingly, at least to me, the journalist who
wrote the article took the slant highlighting the diversion, and not the
final conclusion "that the majority of ADHD individuals, particularly
those without conduct or substance use disorders, use their medications
appropriately."
The countless articles that you post about the issue of diversion seem
to imply that diversion is endemic and so widespread that everyone who
is prescribed medication diverts it for use. Such is not the case, and
this study shows it.
>> Jan takes exception to Mark pointing out the problems with the articles
>> she posts.
>
> I take exception to his disruption and his twisting of the articles..YOU
> chose to call them *problems*.
I suspect that what you call "disruption" is my practice of posting
comments in-line to discuss various parts of the articles. Many people
do that, and I will continue it as it has been my practice for years.
Further, I find it an effective means to demonstrate bias, illogic and
incorrect information.
As for "twisting" I also disagree. What I do is to place the article in
a different perspective, as many of the journalist written articles ARE
slanted, as I pointed out above wrt to diversion of medications.
>> Mark takes exception to Jan posting articles that contain material that
>> could cause harm to kids with challenges.
>
> Such as, please be specify.
>
> To my knowledge I have posted NO articles that have contained anything that
> would cause harm to kids with challenges.
Au contraire...
You have continuously posted anti-medication articles which highlight
rare circumstances surround the use of medications to treat AD/HD. You
also post articles denying the existence of AD/HD, and, of course, the
articles you post from the CCHR, a front group for the business known as
$cientology.
I consider that all of them are articles which could cause harm to kids
with challenges.
>> So they go back and forth with the insults.
>
> Oh?
>
> Do show us who it is that give the majority of these insults.
Being constantly called a liar by you when you merely disagree with me
is insulting. I know you will claim that you do not call me a liar
unless I lie, but, in spite of my asking you to demonstrate exactly what
"lie" you are referring to, you often do not. In some cases, I explain
my statements, or show how you have taken them out of context, and you
persist in calling me a liar.
That, Mrs. Drew, is insulting.
>> It doesn't help matters any that the archives show that Jan has indeed
>> made comments re: anyone who isn't of her particular faith. That's
>> just fuel for the fire.
>
> Was anyone speaking of the archives in this newsgroup?
>
> What is my particular faith?
As best as can be determine, a branch of Christianity. You have never
been too specific.
> It is INDEED YOU who is added fuel to the fire.
No, Kitten is clarifying what she believes. If you are fueled by that,
then it is your problem.
>> It doesn't help matters that the archives show that Mark is extremely
>> harsh in his opinions toward *ANYONE* who posts material that can pose
>> any sort of difficulty for any kid with challenges. That also adds
>> fuel to the fire.
>
> FACT:
>
> Nobody was speaking of ANY archives!
>
>
> Further FACT:
>
>
> Mark Probert it not extremely *harsh*.
I agree. I am merely a pussy cat in Newsgroups.
My "extremely harsh" is not pretty.
> FACT: He is indeed a proven liar as well as a proven insulter, name caller
> and trouble maker.
That is your OPINION, and you are entitled to it. I believe that you
base it on the fact that I disagree with you, and use tough language
when you do something I consider despicable.
>> And of course, anyone who asks for it to stop is called a "liar."
>
> Oh?
>
> Show us your proof.
>
>
> [watch for no reply from Kitten, who has no proof for any of her
> accusations]
>
>
> FACT: No one is called a liar, unless they in fact have LIED!
>
>
> Which has been proven right here!
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/jofbd
>
>
> ==
>
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
>
> news:W6U4g.18652$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>> "Coleah" wrote:
>
>
>> I'm still a practicing Christian.
>
>
>> Nuff said.
> "Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>
>
>
> news:WSU4g.105$pP6...@fe12.lga...
>
>
>> Jan Drew wrote:
>
>>> I'm still a practicing Christian.
>
>
>> Keep practicing. One day you will get it right.
>
>
>
> ===
>
> AND
>
>
> For the asad readers.
>
>
> Mark Probert just posted he did not want me to call him a liar under any
> circumstances....
You obviously do not see how disruptive such behavior is. You have taken
it upon yourself to be the ultimate arbiter of who is telling the truth
and who is not.
However, in MHA, your pattern is that anyone who supports fact based
medicine is subject to your indictment, and those who support
alternative medicine are often given free passes. I personally do not
recall if you have ever called an alternative supported a liar, and it
would surprise me if you did.
> What do you have to say, Kitten????????
Kitten already pointed out that she is not responding to you. Your
asking her this question is disingenuous and is designed to make it
appear that Kitten is not being forthright.
Now, can you make an effort to live and let live?
Mark Probert
The VAERS system is so flawed that drawing any conclusions from its data
is specious.
>> The VAERS system was also slanted by the legal profession when they
>> recommended that all of their clients report anything that the parents
>> though could have been caused by vaccines, but was not definitively
>> linked.
>
> Changes NOT the FACT...
Yes, it does change the "facts" since the "facts" are based on reports
which are questionable.
>
> *the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) has received reports of
> encephalitis, ataxia, pneumonia, thrombocytopenia, arthropathy and erythema
> multiforme occurring after vaccination*.
>
> These things were NOT outrageous nor made up!
They could very well have been made up. However, that is NOT the point.
They may have happened after a vaccination, but, that may be purely
coincidental. There is NO proof of causation.
>>> JD Just might be she read that and make the decision NOT to vaccinate!!
>>>
>>>
>>> JD Which is her RIGHT!
>> Yes, it is her right, and I never said otherwise. However, it was a poor
>> choice that had horrid consequences.
>
> It is NOT your right to decide if it was a poor choice.
I disagree. I can comment on anyone's choice and they are still free to
make it themselves.
>>> JD And does NOT make her an idiot.
>>>
>>>
>>> JD It does make YOU...a despicable person for calling her one!
>>>
>>> Furthermore, I have posted the risks of vaccinations and thimerosal.
>> Yes you have. I have no recollection of you ever posting the benefits. You
>> do acknowledge that there are benefits, don't you?
>
> My thoughts on vaccinations are clearly posted.
Yes, and you do appear to be anti-vaccination, as I pointed out in the
paragraph. It is not only your words, but your practices, that count in
my reaching my opinion.
Mark Probert
My concern is for the children who will grow up without a mother who, in
a sense, chose her death. You can think that this is heartless and
despicable, but my concern is for the living.
>>> Some struggle with it based solely on the possibility of complications
>>> that can (and on occasion do) arise from vaccinations. Some struggle
>>> with the issue due to religious and/or ethical conflicts they may have
>>> with vaccinations. To insult those who struggle with this issues does
>>> a grave injustice, IMO.
>> Perhaps. However, AFAIAC,
>
> As far as the Parents of the kids damaged for life the risks are REAL!
Only if vaccination truly caused the problem.
> the issue of complications is way overblown
>> and the issue is poisoned with intentional dysinformation.
>
> Poisoning is poisoning is poisoning and is NOT
> disinformation, and nothing is intentional.
I disagree. The use of the term poisoning is intentionally inflammatory
and constitutes scaremongering.
>
> Others make
>> the claim that they have a ethical/religious right, and, some truly do.
>> However, I have also seen those people whom I graciously call
>> anti-vaccination liars
>
> He calls them that,,,because Peter Bowditch coined the termed, actually
> he is a vaccinations liar.
I do not need anyone to coin a phrase. I am quest adept at it, myself.
And, I do call them anti-vac liars because, IMNSHO, they ARE anti-vac liars.
> advocate that parents use the religious/ethical,
>> and many people do, even though their religion and ethics says otherwise.
>
> *In your opinion*
No. I have read postings in other groups and on several Yahoo lists
where that has been advocated. No opinion.
>> As for the idea of 'ethics', I consider it to be wholly unethical to avoid
>> vaccination for any reason except two 1) a clear medical reason, e.g. past
>> adverse reactions, or 2) a clearly religious one, where the religion
>> teaches against vaccination.
>>
>> Otherwise, I do not see a valid excuse.
>>
>>> In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
>>> well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
>>> towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
>>> yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD.
>> Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is, so
>> far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination crowd.
>
> Prove it.
I do not have to prove that they do not exist. Those claiming that they
exist have the burden of proof.
>> My
>>> family is one such family. All the children in my family received/are
>>> receiving the full round of antibiotics. So far, only one has been
>>> diagnosed with ASD. One has been dx'd with ADHD-C. We all show
>>> varying degrees of the symptomology.
>> However, when the unique combination of genes gets together, you can get
>> something.
>
> You can get something no mattet what...did you have a point?
Yes.
>>> One of my nieces was born within 6 months of my niece dx'd with ASD.
>>> Both had all their vaccinations on schedule, but at the time, they
>>> lived about 200 miles apart. Did the vaccinations have any influence
>>> on the development of ASD? Perhaps differing batches of vaccines made
>>> a difference? Or perhaps the vaccines had absolutely nothing to do
>>> with it. But there was enough question that the preservatives were
>>> changed, to minimize that possibility.
>> I followed the removal of Thimerosal issue. The FDA recommendation was
>> based solely on the concern that the fearmongering surrounding it would
>> cause a decrease in the uptake of vaccination, thus adversely affecting
>> the herd effect, causing an increase in disease.
>
> Mark has lied and lied about this for years.
This comment is not in the spirit of "live and let live."
> The FACTS of the FDA's recommendations are well documented.
That does not change the reasoning.
> This was happening at
>> the time in the Pacific Northwest with regard to outbreaks of Pertussis.
>>
>>> There are too many questions and not enough answers.
>> Disagree. Most of the questions have been answered.
>
> Many of them lies.
No. Well designed and well done studies.
MothWrangler
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>> news:0055g.21$kY6...@fe08.lga...
>>
>>> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
>>>> In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
>>>> well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
>>>> towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
>>>> yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD.
>>>
>>> Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is,
>>> so far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination
>>> crowd.
>>
>>
>> Prove it.
>
>
> I do not have to prove that they do not exist. Those claiming that they
> exist have the burden of proof.
And the reason for that is that a negative proposition cannot be proven.
It's impossible to offer valid proof of something that doesn't exist.
That's an elementary rule of logic, but of course, those of us familiar
with Jan's posts know that Jan and logic have never met.
Nancy
Unique, like everyone else
Mark Probert
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> Jan Drew wrote:
>>
>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0055g.21$kY6...@fe08.lga...
>>>
>>>> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
>
>>>>> In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
>>>>> well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
>>>>> towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
>>>>> yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist
>>>> is, so far, non-existent, except in the claims of the
>>>> anti-vaccination crowd.
>>>
>>>
>>> Prove it.
>>
>>
>> I do not have to prove that they do not exist. Those claiming that
>> they exist have the burden of proof.
>
> And the reason for that is that a negative proposition cannot be proven.
> It's impossible to offer valid proof of something that doesn't exist.
Correct.
> That's an elementary rule of logic, but of course, those of us familiar
> with Jan's posts know that Jan and logic have never met.
That is not in the spirit of "live and let live."
Jan Drew
>Return-Path: <marla_map...@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [24.184.88.114]
Jan Drew
Posting the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:sWU4g.106$pP6...@fe12.lga...
Jan Drew
"Mark Probert' does not speak for Kitten.
This is an example of how the *gang* tries to cover for each other.....
Barnesdale
Jan Drew <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:bJu5g.20302$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Jan Drew
They are ONLY questioned when they have information YOU don't like.....
>
>>
>> *the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) has received reports
>> of
>> encephalitis, ataxia, pneumonia, thrombocytopenia, arthropathy and
>> erythema
>> multiforme occurring after vaccination*.
>>
>> These things were NOT outrageous nor made up!
>
> They could very well have been made up.
NO, these things are NOT made up. These things are NOT known to the normal
person...
However, that is NOT the point.
> They may have happened after a vaccination, but, that may be purely
> coincidental. There is NO proof of causation.
This list above is NOT coincidental.
YOU are grasping at straws......
>
>>>> JD Just might be she read that and make the decision NOT to vaccinate!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JD Which is her RIGHT!
>>> Yes, it is her right, and I never said otherwise. However, it was a poor
>>> choice that had horrid consequences.
>>
>> It is NOT your right to decide if it was a poor choice.
>
> I disagree. I can comment on anyone's choice and they are still free to
> make it themselves.
Oh what a tangle web we weave, when we first practice to deceive...
You wrote:
As for the idea of 'ethics', I consider it to be wholly unethical to
avoid vaccination for any reason except two 1) a clear medical reason,
e.g. past adverse reactions, or 2) a clearly religious one, where the
religion teaches against vaccination.
The FACT is...you did NOT know any of the above information about this dead
mother...
Yet, you called her an *idiot*.
>
>>>> JD And does NOT make her an idiot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JD It does make YOU...a despicable person for calling her one!
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, I have posted the risks of vaccinations and thimerosal.
>>> Yes you have. I have no recollection of you ever posting the benefits.
>>> You do acknowledge that there are benefits, don't you?
>>
>> My thoughts on vaccinations are clearly posted.
>
> Yes, and you do appear to be anti-vaccination, as I pointed out in the
> paragraph. It is not only your words, but your practices, that count in my
> reaching my opinion.
I just posted an EXCELLENT example of your opinion above!
Fuck Google
Mark Probert
> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:ALn5g.3$%F4...@fe10.lga...
>> Jan Drew wrote:
>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
>>>> I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
>>> And I am posting what was said...originally... without your added
>>> comments:
>> Such a post is not within the concept of 'live and let live.'
>
> Posting the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
When you claim that anyone lies, it is necessary to show that they
knowingly posted something that they know to be untrue for the purpose
of deception.
Otherwise, it is not a lie.
Mark Probert
No, the reports are questionable in themselves, as they are self-reports
from people who already believe in the mercury<->link.
>>> *the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) has received reports
>>> of
>>> encephalitis, ataxia, pneumonia, thrombocytopenia, arthropathy and
>>> erythema
>>> multiforme occurring after vaccination*.
>>>
>>> These things were NOT outrageous nor made up!
>> They could very well have been made up.
>
> NO, these things are NOT made up. These things are NOT known to the normal
> person...
Many of the reports were made by people instructed to do so by their
attorneys who are litigating the thimerosal issue. Do I need to explain
to you haw this skews the database?
> However, that is NOT the point.
>> They may have happened after a vaccination, but, that may be purely
>> coincidental. There is NO proof of causation.
>
> This list above is NOT coincidental.
How do you know that? There is not one shred of evidence either way.
> YOU are grasping at straws......
No, I am pointing out the basis of the fallacies you used.
>>>>> JD Just might be she read that and make the decision NOT to vaccinate!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> JD Which is her RIGHT!
>>>> Yes, it is her right, and I never said otherwise. However, it was a poor
>>>> choice that had horrid consequences.
>>> It is NOT your right to decide if it was a poor choice.
>> I disagree. I can comment on anyone's choice and they are still free to
>> make it themselves.
>
> Oh what a tangle web we weave, when we first practice to deceive...
There is no deception.
> You wrote:
>
> As for the idea of 'ethics', I consider it to be wholly unethical to
> avoid vaccination for any reason except two 1) a clear medical reason,
> e.g. past adverse reactions, or 2) a clearly religious one, where the
> religion teaches against vaccination.
>
> The FACT is...you did NOT know any of the above information about this dead
> mother...
I do know that three kids were not vaccinated. If her refusal to
vaccinate was based on those two points, then it was a fair decision.
However, I have my doubts.
> Yet, you called her an *idiot*.
Last year I called the parents of a 17 year old young man, a straight A
student worse than that. They are Jehovah Witnesses and they refused to
allow him to get transfusions to save his life. His pelvis was crushed
in an accident, and, by the time the court order arrived, he was dead.
>>>>> JD And does NOT make her an idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> JD It does make YOU...a despicable person for calling her one!
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, I have posted the risks of vaccinations and thimerosal.
>>>> Yes you have. I have no recollection of you ever posting the benefits.
>>>> You do acknowledge that there are benefits, don't you?
>>> My thoughts on vaccinations are clearly posted.
>> Yes, and you do appear to be anti-vaccination, as I pointed out in the
>> paragraph. It is not only your words, but your practices, that count in my
>> reaching my opinion.
>
> I just posted an EXCELLENT example of your opinion above!
Correct. My opinions are all excellent.
Jan Drew
That is absolutely ABSURD!
You can think that this is heartless and despicable, but my concern is for
the living.
Your concern is posting the entire thing HERE was off topic and all about
trying to trash *me*.
Your concern was it *pissed you off*.
>
>>>> Some struggle with it based solely on the possibility of complications
>>>> that can (and on occasion do) arise from vaccinations. Some struggle
>>>> with the issue due to religious and/or ethical conflicts they may have
>>>> with vaccinations. To insult those who struggle with this issues does
>>>> a grave injustice, IMO.
>>> Perhaps. However, AFAIAC,
>>
>> As far as the Parents of the kids damaged for life the risks are REAL!
>
> Only if vaccination truly caused the problem.
FACT...they do!
About*1700* out of 11,000 each year.
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
>
>> the issue of complications is way overblown
>>> and the issue is poisoned with intentional dysinformation.
>>
>> Poisoning is poisoning is poisoning and is NOT
>> disinformation, and nothing is intentional.
>
> I disagree. The use of the term poisoning is intentionally inflammatory
> and constitutes scaremongering.
You would not disagree if you had been mercury poisoned...
You are one of those liars who keeps people suffering..needlessly
while speaking of caring...
>
>>
>> Others make
>>> the claim that they have a ethical/religious right, and, some truly do.
>>> However, I have also seen those people whom I graciously call
>>> anti-vaccination liars
>>
>> He calls them that,,,because Peter Bowditch coined the termed, actually
>> he is a vaccinations liar.
>
> I do not need anyone to coin a phrase. I am quest adept at it, myself.
> And, I do call them anti-vac liars because, IMNSHO, they ARE anti-vac
> liars.
I do call you a LIAR, and it is NOT my opinion, it is a FACT..proven OVER
and OVER
and OVER.
>
>> advocate that parents use the religious/ethical,
>>> and many people do, even though their religion and ethics says
>>> otherwise.
>>
>> *In your opinion*
>
> No. I have read postings in other groups and on several Yahoo lists where
> that has been advocated. No opinion.
Prove it.
>
>>> As for the idea of 'ethics', I consider it to be wholly unethical to
>>> avoid vaccination for any reason except two 1) a clear medical reason,
>>> e.g. past adverse reactions, or 2) a clearly religious one, where the
>>> religion teaches against vaccination.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, I do not see a valid excuse.
>>>
>>>> In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
>>>> well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
>>>> towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
>>>> yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD.
>>> Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is, so
>>> far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination crowd.
>>
>> Prove it.
>
> I do not have to prove that they do not exist. Those claiming that they
> exist have the burden of proof.
YOU made a claim, YOU prove it!
*Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is, so
far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination crowd.*
WHERE are these claims?
Prove it!
>
>>> My
>>>> family is one such family. All the children in my family received/are
>>>> receiving the full round of antibiotics. So far, only one has been
>>>> diagnosed with ASD. One has been dx'd with ADHD-C. We all show
>>>> varying degrees of the symptomology.
>>> However, when the unique combination of genes gets together, you can get
>>> something.
>>
>> You can get something no mattet what...did you have a point?
>
> Yes.
Well?
>
>>>> One of my nieces was born within 6 months of my niece dx'd with ASD.
>>>> Both had all their vaccinations on schedule, but at the time, they
>>>> lived about 200 miles apart. Did the vaccinations have any influence
>>>> on the development of ASD? Perhaps differing batches of vaccines made
>>>> a difference? Or perhaps the vaccines had absolutely nothing to do
>>>> with it. But there was enough question that the preservatives were
>>>> changed, to minimize that possibility.
>>> I followed the removal of Thimerosal issue. The FDA recommendation was
>>> based solely on the concern that the fearmongering surrounding it would
>>> cause a decrease in the uptake of vaccination, thus adversely affecting
>>> the herd effect, causing an increase in disease.
>>
>> Mark has lied and lied about this for years.
>
> This comment is not in the spirit of "live and let live."
The TRUTH is always in the spirit of *live and let live.*
>
>> The FACTS of the FDA's recommendations are well documented.
>
> That does not change the reasoning.
It does change your LIES...
>
>> This was happening at
>>> the time in the Pacific Northwest with regard to outbreaks of Pertussis.
>>>
>>>> There are too many questions and not enough answers.
>>> Disagree. Most of the questions have been answered.
>>
>> Many of them lies.
>
> No. Well designed and well done studies.
Prove it.
Mark Probert
> "Mark Probert' does not speak for Kitten.
True. However, I never claimed I did.
> This is an example of how the *gang* tries to cover for each other.....
I am not covering for anyone. I am addressing points you raised about me.
Mark Probert
Jan, you are still attacking me, although I am trying to live and let live.
Mark Probert
No it isn't. She chose to forego vaccinations for her children and she
knew she had never had chickenpox. She had an obligation to understand
the consequences of her choices.
> You can think that this is heartless and despicable, but my concern is for
> the living.
>
> Your concern is posting the entire thing HERE was off topic and all about
> trying to trash *me*.
Not at all.
> Your concern was it *pissed you off*.
Needles preventable death always pisses me off.
>>>>> Some struggle with it based solely on the possibility of complications
>>>>> that can (and on occasion do) arise from vaccinations. Some struggle
>>>>> with the issue due to religious and/or ethical conflicts they may have
>>>>> with vaccinations. To insult those who struggle with this issues does
>>>>> a grave injustice, IMO.
>>>> Perhaps. However, AFAIAC,
>>> As far as the Parents of the kids damaged for life the risks are REAL!
>> Only if vaccination truly caused the problem.
>
> FACT...they do!
Not necessarily.
> About*1700* out of 11,000 each year.
>
> National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
>
> http://www.909shot.com/
You know my opinion of that cesspool of misinformation.
>>> the issue of complications is way overblown
>>>> and the issue is poisoned with intentional dysinformation.
>>> Poisoning is poisoning is poisoning and is NOT
>>> disinformation, and nothing is intentional.
>> I disagree. The use of the term poisoning is intentionally inflammatory
>> and constitutes scaremongering.
>
> You would not disagree if you had been mercury poisoned...
I would disagree regardless.
> You are one of those liars who keeps people suffering..needlessly
> while speaking of caring...
No, I am not. I want safe, effective treatment.
>>> Others make
>>>> the claim that they have a ethical/religious right, and, some truly do.
>>>> However, I have also seen those people whom I graciously call
>>>> anti-vaccination liars
>>> He calls them that,,,because Peter Bowditch coined the termed, actually
>>> he is a vaccinations liar.
>> I do not need anyone to coin a phrase. I am quest adept at it, myself.
>
>> And, I do call them anti-vac liars because, IMNSHO, they ARE anti-vac
>> liars.
>
> I do call you a LIAR, and it is NOT my opinion, it is a FACT..proven OVER
> and OVER
> and OVER.
No, it is not. And, you are not posting to "live and let live".
>>> advocate that parents use the religious/ethical,
>>>> and many people do, even though their religion and ethics says
>>>> otherwise.
>>> *In your opinion*
>> No. I have read postings in other groups and on several Yahoo lists where
>> that has been advocated. No opinion.
>
> Prove it.
Look them up, they are in the archives.
>>>> As for the idea of 'ethics', I consider it to be wholly unethical to
>>>> avoid vaccination for any reason except two 1) a clear medical reason,
>>>> e.g. past adverse reactions, or 2) a clearly religious one, where the
>>>> religion teaches against vaccination.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, I do not see a valid excuse.
>>>>
>>>>> In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
>>>>> well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
>>>>> towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
>>>>> yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD.
>>>> Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is, so
>>>> far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination crowd.
>>> Prove it.
>> I do not have to prove that they do not exist. Those claiming that they
>> exist have the burden of proof.
>
> YOU made a claim, YOU prove it!
It is impossible to prove a negative.
> *Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is, so
> far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination crowd.*
>
> WHERE are these claims?
Look them up.
> Prove it!
I am sorry that you are not well read.
>>>> My
>>>>> family is one such family. All the children in my family received/are
>>>>> receiving the full round of antibiotics. So far, only one has been
>>>>> diagnosed with ASD. One has been dx'd with ADHD-C. We all show
>>>>> varying degrees of the symptomology.
>>>> However, when the unique combination of genes gets together, you can get
>>>> something.
>>> You can get something no mattet what...did you have a point?
>> Yes.
>
> Well?
You asked if I had a point. I answered.
>>>>> One of my nieces was born within 6 months of my niece dx'd with ASD.
>>>>> Both had all their vaccinations on schedule, but at the time, they
>>>>> lived about 200 miles apart. Did the vaccinations have any influence
>>>>> on the development of ASD? Perhaps differing batches of vaccines made
>>>>> a difference? Or perhaps the vaccines had absolutely nothing to do
>>>>> with it. But there was enough question that the preservatives were
>>>>> changed, to minimize that possibility.
>>>> I followed the removal of Thimerosal issue. The FDA recommendation was
>>>> based solely on the concern that the fearmongering surrounding it would
>>>> cause a decrease in the uptake of vaccination, thus adversely affecting
>>>> the herd effect, causing an increase in disease.
>>> Mark has lied and lied about this for years.
>> This comment is not in the spirit of "live and let live."
>
> The TRUTH is always in the spirit of *live and let live.*
Your incessantly calling me a liar when you disagree with me is not in
the spirit of "live and let live."
>>> The FACTS of the FDA's recommendations are well documented.
>> That does not change the reasoning.
>
> It does change your LIES...
Your incessantly calling me a liar when you disagree with me is not in
the spirit of "live and let live."
>>> This was happening at
>>>> the time in the Pacific Northwest with regard to outbreaks of Pertussis.
>>>>
>>>>> There are too many questions and not enough answers.
>>>> Disagree. Most of the questions have been answered.
>>> Many of them lies.
>> No. Well designed and well done studies.
>
> Prove it.
Have done so dozens of times. You can go look them up.
Rich
"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:bJu5g.20302$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>
> news:ALn5g.3$%F4...@fe10.lga...
>> Jan Drew wrote:
>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
>>>> I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
>>>
>>> And I am posting what was said...originally... without your added
>>> comments:
>>
>> Such a post is not within the concept of 'live and let live.'
>
> Posting the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
>
What an absurd statement! When a child says, "You have an ugly wart on your
nose!" to a stranger, that may be the truth, but it's not "live and let
live," and we teach the child to refrain from such commentary. But then you
may have missed such fundamental training in manners.
--
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/
Jan Drew
"MothWrangler" <mothwr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4bmtbdF...@individual.net...
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> Jan Drew wrote:
>>
>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0055g.21$kY6...@fe08.lga...
>>>
>>>> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
>
>>>>> In the case of autism, some feel the jury is still out. It may very
>>>>> well be that in families where there is a genetic predisposition
>>>>> towards ADHD/AS/ASD, certain preservatives or other factors we are not
>>>>> yet aware of could increase the chances for development of ASD.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps, however, the evidence to suggest that those people exist is,
>>>> so far, non-existent, except in the claims of the anti-vaccination
>>>> crowd.
>>>
>>>
>>> Prove it.
>>
>>
>> I do not have to prove that they do not exist. Those claiming that they
>> exist have the burden of proof.
>
> And the reason for that is that a negative proposition cannot be proven.
> It's impossible to offer valid proof of something that doesn't exist.
No, Mark claimed it did not exist, and further claimed a certain crowd
clamed it didn't exist.
Therefore, he made two claims and has proved neither.
>
> That's an elementary rule of logic, but of course, those of us familiar
> with Jan's posts know that Jan and logic have never met.
Nancy would like to take the focus off Mark and insult, me as usual.
Again..Mark claimed it did not exist, and further claimed a certain crowd
clamed it didn't exist.
Therefore, he made two claims and has proved neither.
Nancy's logic is flawed....her aim...as usual is to agree with Mark and
insult me.
Jan Drew
"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Wvw5g.11123$MP2....@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:bJu5g.20302$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>> news:ALn5g.3$%F4...@fe10.lga...
>>> Jan Drew wrote:
>>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
>>>>> I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
>>>>
>>>> And I am posting what was said...originally... without your added
>>>> comments:
>>>
>>> Such a post is not within the concept of 'live and let live.'
>>
>> Posting the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
>>
>
> What an absurd statement! When a child says,
Poor Rich..
Reading comprehension 101
*Posting* the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
Rich
>
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Wvw5g.11123$MP2....@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:bJu5g.20302$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ALn5g.3$%F4...@fe10.lga...
>>>> Jan Drew wrote:
>>>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
>>>>>> I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I am posting what was said...originally... without your added
>>>>> comments:
>>>>
>>>> Such a post is not within the concept of 'live and let live.'
>>>
>>> Posting the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
>>>
>>
>> What an absurd statement! When a child says,
>
> Poor Rich..
>
> Reading comprehension 101
>
> *Posting* the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
Oh, I see. You have a double standard. It's okay to be as ill-mannered as
you like so long as you are protected by the distance of the internet. You
remind me of those bad drivers who would never cut in a line at the movies,
but will push into a line of cars when protected by the semianonymity of the
metal surrounding themselves.
Fuck Google
Fuck Google
Coleah
>
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Wvw5g.11123$MP2....@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> >
> > "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:bJu5g.20302$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> >>
> >> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> >> news:ALn5g.3$%F4...@fe10.lga...
> >>> Jan Drew wrote:
> >>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
> >>>>> I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
> >>>>
> >>>> And I am posting what was said...originally... without your added
> >>>> comments:
> >>>
> >>> Such a post is not within the concept of 'live and let live.'
> >>
> >> Posting the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
> >>
> >
> > What an absurd statement! When a child says,
>
> Poor Rich..
>
> Reading comprehension 101
>
> *Posting* the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
Like when someone says that Jan Drew is a tactless picky, picky person......
http://www.onlinerummaging.com/asbi/47.jpg
Jan Drew
Done that plenty of times:
You wrote:
*A study was posted in ASAD which Jan never responded to, but was in the
thread, that just the opposite is true. I posted several studies showing
that treatment prevents abuse.
Jan does not want to hear that, and sticks her head in her rectum*.
See below For my response:
==
Also right here in this very thread.
Dragon's Girl
Good Lord.
I really did picture her completely differently.
More....sinister.
She actually looks halfway normal, in a Spockish kind of way.
"Coleah" <col...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:125d8bt...@corp.supernews.com...
Jan Drew
Yesterday's newspaper..................I told you
I removed that "webPAGE" last week.
People are on earth to express their love and acceptance of
one another. With some folks we have a harder time accepting
even one cell about them that is lovable, so our communication
with them is.....ah, at a pretty low level. It's a waste of time
to dwell too long with our 'low-level loved ones', for we also
appear as such.
I hope you don't get stuck in that muck, as I have in the past.
Coleah
Coleah
[If you can't take the waves, get the hell off the boat. Kiss, kiss.]
Mark Probert
Assuming that I was wrong, you still have not proven that I knowingly
posted something that I knew to be false. To do this, you must prove
that I knew it to be false when I posted it. At the time I posted it, I
believed it to be true. Thus, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be a lie, and
it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to PROVE that I did not believe it to be true.
Therefore, calling it a lie is incorrect.
Fuck Google
Fuck Google
Fuck Google
news:7pz5g.20416$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Fuck Google
Fuck Google
Fuck Google
Fuck Google
Mark Probert <markprobert@From Stuart Hyderman who also claims to be a
chiropractor wrote in message:
Stuart hydernan hyderman stuart
Fuck Google
Fuck Google <jam...@sksck.org> wrote in message
news:phx5g.60$W6.50@edtnps89...
Fuck Google
Fuck Google <jam...@sksck.org> wrote in message
news:ghx5g.59$W6.27@edtnps89...
Fuck Google
Mark Probert <marFrom Stuart Hyderman who also claims to be a chiropractor
wrote in message:
Stuart hydernan hyderman stuart
> Jan Drew wrote:
> > "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> > news:ALn5g.3$%F4...@fe10.lga...
> >> Jan Drew wrote:
> >>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
> >>>> I am crossposting this to mha and asbi, where Jan and I also post.
> >>> And I am posting what was said...originally... without your added
> >>> comments:
> >> Such a post is not within the concept of 'live and let live.'
> >
> > Posting the TRUTH is always within the concept of *live and let live*
>
MothWrangler
> MothWrangler wrote:
<snip>
>> those of us
>> familiar with Jan's posts know that Jan and logic have never met.
>
>
> That is not in the spirit of "live and let live."
Hey!
First of all, I didn't sign on to the L & LL deal. But in general, I do
think it's a good idea. The best way to extinguish unwanted behavior is
to ignore it.
Second, that post was actually my nicer version. I originally had
another couple of sentences there that I deleted because I deemed them
meaner than warranted, and I try not to let everything in my head out in
public.
Jan Drew
Wrong.
You knew both were false when you posted both.
All one needs to do is look at the dates.
In addition all will see you are LYING ....AGAIN!
Which is your REPEATED HABIT!
My response date was posted:
Wed, Mar 15 2006 9:28 pm
Your lie was posted:
Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:56 am
"Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:t3gTf.9$wg...@fe10.lga...
The Alpha lie was also proven by dates.
You are a proven LIAR, over and over and over and over.
Mark Probert
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> MothWrangler wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> those of us familiar with Jan's posts know that Jan and logic have
>>> never met.
>>
>>
>> That is not in the spirit of "live and let live."
>
> Hey!
>
> First of all, I didn't sign on to the L & LL deal.
I know... :)
But in general, I do
> think it's a good idea. The best way to extinguish unwanted behavior is
> to ignore it.
>
> Second, that post was actually my nicer version. I originally had
> another couple of sentences there that I deleted because I deemed them
> meaner than warranted, and I try not to let everything in my head out in
> public.
That is a good idea. I adopted L&LL (nice shorthand, BTW, thanks, no
check in the mail) because I felt that I was getting too nasty and was
letting her get to me.
Doing L&LL is empowering, as if I needed any more power!
Mark Probert
You need to prove that I recalled what happened in the past. Merely
claiming it does not prove it.
> All one needs to do is look at the dates.
>
> In addition all will see you are LYING ....AGAIN!
>
> Which is your REPEATED HABIT!
>
> My response date was posted:
>
> Wed, Mar 15 2006 9:28 pm
>
> Your lie was posted:
>
> Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:56 am
I am not going to play go to the archives any longer. You can to your
hearts content. It only makes my Google stock go up.
> "Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>
>
> news:t3gTf.9$wg...@fe10.lga...
>
> The Alpha lie was also proven by dates.
As for Alpha, he was pro-Palestinian suicide murderer.
Jan Drew
No, I do not, everyone knows you never miss one of my posts.
>
>> All one needs to do is look at the dates.
>>
>> In addition all will see you are LYING ....AGAIN!
>>
>> Which is your REPEATED HABIT!
>>
>> My response date was posted:
>>
>> Wed, Mar 15 2006 9:28 pm
>>
>> Your lie was posted:
>>
>> Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:56 am
>
> I am not going to play go to the archives any longer. You can to your
> hearts content. It only makes my Google stock go up.
Can't deal with FACTS..Ah?
>
>> "Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
>> news:t3gTf.9$wg...@fe10.lga...
>>
>> The Alpha lie was also proven by dates.
>
> As for Alpha, he was pro-Palestinian suicide murderer.
*Anecdotes are bullshit*. Mark Probert
Does NOT change the FACT you lied!
This posts shows you are a REPEATED PROVEN LIAR....
AND..
Don't have the sense to know when to shut up....
In fact you criticize others for saying it, while you are the hypocrite...
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine, alt.support.breast-implant,
misc.health.alternative, alt.support.attn-deficit
From: Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> - Find messages by this
author
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:24:08 -0400
Local: Tues, Jul 19 2005 6:24 pm
Subject: Re: Mark Probert LIES & Vashti LIES (was God Bless Dr Breggin)
So, either post some real proof that I intended to disrupt, or shut the
fuck up.
Mark Probert
Can you prove that everyone knows? Can you prove that I never miss one
of your posts (which, BTW, is untrue, as I skip subthreads where it is
merely a back-and-forth between you and someone else)?
>>> All one needs to do is look at the dates.
>>>
>>> In addition all will see you are LYING ....AGAIN!
>>>
>>> Which is your REPEATED HABIT!
>>>
>>> My response date was posted:
>>>
>>> Wed, Mar 15 2006 9:28 pm
>>>
>>> Your lie was posted:
>>>
>>> Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:56 am
>> I am not going to play go to the archives any longer. You can to your
>> hearts content. It only makes my Google stock go up.
>
> Can't deal with FACTS..Ah?
No, I do not want to play games any longer. To do so would, IMNSHO,
violate the true spirit of L&LL.
>>> "Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>> news:t3gTf.9$wg...@fe10.lga...
>>>
>>> The Alpha lie was also proven by dates.
>> As for Alpha, he was pro-Palestinian suicide murderer.
>
> *Anecdotes are bullshit*. Mark Probert
In this case, it is well documented.
> Does NOT change the FACT you lied!
Not at all. I merely forgot that I had previously commented on Alpha's
group.
Yesterday(?) I read one of your posts where you quoted me about
gardening. I did not think I had said that...but, decided, in that one
case, to check on Google. I did, and found that I was wrong. This did
not change anything, though.
> This posts shows you are a REPEATED PROVEN LIAR....
No, it merely proves that I am living L&LL, and that, sadly, you are not.
> AND..
>
> Don't have the sense to know when to shut up....
There you go again...not wanting to L&LL. Saddens me to no end.
Jan Drew
I don't have to...you do that yourelf....
Can you prove that I never miss one
> of your posts (which, BTW, is untrue, as I skip subthreads where it is
> merely a back-and-forth between you and someone else)?
>
>>>> All one needs to do is look at the dates.
>>>>
>>>> In addition all will see you are LYING ....AGAIN!
>>>>
>>>> Which is your REPEATED HABIT!
>>>>
>>>> My response date was posted:
>>>>
>>>> Wed, Mar 15 2006 9:28 pm
>>>>
>>>> Your lie was posted:
>>>>
>>>> Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:56 am
>>> I am not going to play go to the archives any longer. You can to your
>>> hearts content. It only makes my Google stock go up.
>>
>> Can't deal with FACTS..Ah?
>
> No, I do not want to play games any longer.
Sad that you classify your lies as a game.
To do so would, IMNSHO,
> violate the true spirit of L&LL.
Poor, fake Feddie Farkas.
I know all about your vows of peace and your breaking them
by using fake addies..
Your lies are rampant and between you and G0d.
Frankly, you are not worth my time.
MothWrangler
> MothWrangler wrote:
>
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>
>>> MothWrangler wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> those of us familiar with Jan's posts know that Jan and logic have
>>>> never met.
>>>
>>> That is not in the spirit of "live and let live."
>>
>> Hey!
>>
>> First of all, I didn't sign on to the L & LL deal.
>
> I know... :)
>
> But in general, I do
>
>> think it's a good idea. The best way to extinguish unwanted behavior
>> is to ignore it.
>>
>> Second, that post was actually my nicer version. I originally had
>> another couple of sentences there that I deleted because I deemed them
>> meaner than warranted, and I try not to let everything in my head out
>> in public.
>
>
> That is a good idea.
So, you've heard the saying that "Sometimes what happens in Nancy's
brain, should stay in Nancy's brain"? LOL.
It's so true. I don't know how many times, after consideration, I've
deleted parts of posts or dumped the entire post into the trash.
That's one benefit of usenet over RL conversations.
> I adopted L&LL (nice shorthand, BTW, thanks, no
> check in the mail)
"L & LL" is copyrighted, Probert, but perhaps we can work out some kind
of licensing arrangement. My people will be in touch with your people.
> because I felt that I was getting too nasty and was
> letting her get to me.
>
> Doing L&LL is empowering, as if I needed any more power!
I can understand that. Disengaging can be a mentally and emotionally
liberating experience.
Mark Probert
I will take that as an implied admission that you realize that you
cannot prove what you said.
> Can you prove that I never miss one
>> of your posts (which, BTW, is untrue, as I skip subthreads where it is
>> merely a back-and-forth between you and someone else)?
>>
>>>>> All one needs to do is look at the dates.
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition all will see you are LYING ....AGAIN!
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is your REPEATED HABIT!
>>>>>
>>>>> My response date was posted:
>>>>>
>>>>> Wed, Mar 15 2006 9:28 pm
>>>>>
>>>>> Your lie was posted:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sun, Mar 19 2006 11:56 am
>>>> I am not going to play go to the archives any longer. You can to your
>>>> hearts content. It only makes my Google stock go up.
>>> Can't deal with FACTS..Ah?
>> No, I do not want to play games any longer.
>
> Sad that you classify your lies as a game.
No, I classify your constantly calling me, and others, a liar as a game
called Liar! Liar!
> To do so would, IMNSHO,
>> violate the true spirit of L&LL.
>
> Poor, fake Feddie Farkas.
Like I said, I was not Freddie Farkas and you cannot possibly prove
otherwise.
> I know all about your vows of peace and your breaking them
> by using fake addies..
No. I did not do that.
> Your lies are rampant and between you and G0d.
>
> Frankly, you are not worth my time.
Then why do you post a response to every post of mine?
Emma Anne
> It's so true. I don't know how many times, after consideration, I've
> deleted parts of posts or dumped the entire post into the trash.
There is a reason I use an off-line reader, and it's not a slow
connection. :-)
MothWrangler
It must work well for you. I've never seen you post anything stupid,
mean, or outrageous.
Emma Anne
Oh, thanks. :-) I'm sure I have, but I really try not to.