Book- ADD: A Different Perception...
Jim Greenhaw
I ran into a fairly recent (1993) book discussing ADD in a way I haven't
read before, and I have read quite a bit.
Even though I haven't finished reading it I wanted to post something
about it now. It is interesting to me that some of it fits in with
parts of the information in an old book called "The Naked Ape".
Anyway the subtitle of this book is "Hunter in a Farmer's World".
When I give it some thought it makes some sense and reflects more about
our culture than ADDer's. Basically in a more primitive culture
the people we call ADD would be the hunters, keen senses, quick
response, etc, and the people that we call normal would be the farmers.
That's it, and in a simple evaluation it works. The trouble is when
the society is forcing the hunters to act like farmers!
This makes me think of education, and the idea that all kids need to
know the same thing, and learn it the same way at the same pace.
In the tribal community the "ADD" girl could have been sent with the
men to "hunting school" instead of learning the resident chores.
How can we model this comparison in a modern society?
Anyway, it's food for thought, and maybe a more gentle way to think
some of the more typical ADD characteristics.
ISBN 0-88733-156-4
By Thom Hartmann
Back to the Happy Hour News.....
Jim Greenhaw
Bev Thornton
Jim Greenhaw (jjh...@TechRanch.com) wrote:
: Anyway the subtitle of this book is "Hunter in a Farmer's World".
: ISBN 0-88733-156-4
: By Thom Hartmann
What's the title?
I believe that 'attention-deficit' is not a disorder but a less-frequent
perceptual style. I get distracted easily, sure, but I notice things
others miss. In the military I was trained as a spotter and an observer,
something they selected for. I think everyone on the course (6) may have
been AD.
- Bev
--
. Kali _________________ aa...@fan.nb.ca .
________________________________________ every now is new
A. Campbell
What kinds of career/jobs do yall think are especially suited to
an ADDer? I was giving it some thought after reading the thread on
"A Different Perception". It must be interesting and challenging,
but not too chaotic. Like what? Do you think Engineering is a
good choice?
paul...@aol.com
I have been fairly succesful as a creative hardware engineer/ software
wiz.
I have had fun and made good $$.
However I still can have trouble dealing with the beurocratic (sp?)
parts of engineering.
I also have a daily chalange with the limits of slower engineers and
office politics.
If you are going to go for engineering go for a small company of , less
than
100 people.
Paul Breed (Engineer for 13 years/6 firms)
Robb Kiser
Yeah, I could see design engineering also as a good choice. Something
like standars engineering, on the other hand... I don't know (unless you
really got excited by nuts and bolts)
Robb
Chris Parsons
On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:48:58 -0500, pa...@connix.com (Pat McCotter)
wrote:
>On 23 Nov 1996 00:42:05 GMT, paul...@aol.com wrote:
>
>:>What kinds of career/jobs do yall think are especially suited to
>:>an ADDer? I was giving it some thought after reading the thread on
>:>"A Different Perception". It must be interesting and challenging,
>:>but not too chaotic. Like what? Do you think Engineering is a
>:>good choice?
>:
>:I have been fairly succesful as a creative hardware engineer/ software
>:wiz.
>:I have had fun and made good $$.
>:
>:However I still can have trouble dealing with the beurocratic (sp?)
>:parts of engineering.
>:
>:I also have a daily chalange with the limits of slower engineers and
>:office politics.
>:
>:If you are going to go for engineering go for a small company of , less
>:than
>:100 people.
>:
>:Paul Breed (Engineer for 13 years/6 firms)
>
>This is good advice. I would include here (I have seen the results in a
>couple of companies) that you, as a big-picture type (isn't this what
>ADD'ers are ;)?), should team up with a detail-oriented person in your
>field. This way, you keep the detail person on track toward the goal, and
>the detail person makes sure nothing falls through the cracks.
>
>Pat Mc.
Pat's comments on teaming up with a detail-oriented person are great.
I never thought of it that way! I've had most of my success as an
engineer in arrangements like that. I have lots of ideas, but am not
good at making them happen, particularly when dealing with the
bureaucracy. The detail people are great at dealing with the paper
work and endless rules.
My thoughts on large company versus small are different than Paul
Breed's though. I work as a systems engineer for a large company.
There is a wide variety of activities within the organization. I can
change jobs and even career without moving to another state or giving
up my benefits. There is a lot of flexibility for finding the right
job for me and I can move to something else easily if I burn out.
(Granted, this may not be true at all large companies)
BTW, I would recommend that anyone with ADD who is interested in
engineering consider system engineering. This can be a great job for
big-picture types. System design requires knowledge of a wide range
of scientific and engineering disciplines and the ability to
communicate with the detail technical types. I have never been able
to limit myself to a single discipline. I love being able to explore
new technologies and see how they might fit into the problem that I am
trying to solve.
Chris Parsons
A. Campbell
In <3297a8b0...@news.connix.com> pa...@connix.com (Pat McCotter)
writes:
track of who wrote what, I'm screwing this up all the time.
I always had a secret motto "Big Picture" and it helps me understand
things in perspective, very important in analysis of anything.
Ann
paul...@aol.com
>Pat's comments on teaming up with a detail-oriented person are great.
>Inever thought of it that way! I've had most of my success as an
>engineer in arrangements like that. I have lots of ideas, but am not
>good at making them happen, particularly when dealing with the
>bureaucracy. The detail people are great at dealing with the paper
>work and endless rules.
>My thoughts on large company versus small are different than Paul
>Breed's though. I work as a systems engineer for a large company.
>There is a wide variety of activities within the organization. I can
>change jobs and even career without moving to another state or giving
>up my benefits. There is a lot of flexibility for finding the right
>job for me and I can move to something else easily if I burn out.
>(Granted, this may not be true at all large companies)
I have worked for large > 5K and smal <60 and I prefer the small.
You get to do everything, and it is much more frantic.
I like to create new things and small organizations can respond faster.
I am currently battleing the low speed of response in a larger
organization and it
is very frustrating!!!!
Paul
Gretchen Kennedy
I have read several logical suggestions which all pretty much have a
commonality regarding change (scenery, interests, tasks, people), but
as I am only one of those listed, I can only attest to their accuracy
with one:
Police (don't freak out under pressure - do better, like adrenaline)
Sales " "
Actors "
Pilots
Writers/ Journalists
Artists
Emergency room doctors and nurses (don't freak out under pressure, do
better, like adrenaline)
Nevertheless, the point of primary consideration is more what are your
strengths and weaknesses?
If you are a lover of design and engineering, check it out thoroughly,
even follow an engineer around for a couple of days, being sure they
don't just schedule fun stuff but show you the true routine, then
decide if you'd be stimulated most of the day, every day. If so, go
for it. If not, don't pursue it. Boredom is our worst enemy, and who
wants an engineer who gets distracted when doing the mundane details,
like how much load this one beam has to be able to hold **grin**....
Good luck!
Gretchen
>What kinds of career/jobs do yall think are especially suited to
>an ADDer? I was giving it some thought after reading the thread on
>"A Different Perception". It must be interesting and challenging,
>but not too chaotic. Like what? Do you think Engineering is a
>good choice?
Forgive me, I only have so much time to make it all OUTRAGEOUS!
Steve Conley
Chris Parsons <pars...@parsonsc.seanet.com> wrote:
>BTW, I would recommend that anyone with ADD who is interested in
>engineering consider system engineering. This can be a great job for
>big-picture types. System design requires knowledge of a wide range
>of scientific and engineering disciplines and the ability to
>communicate with the detail technical types. I have never been able
>to limit myself to a single discipline. I love being able to explore
>new technologies and see how they might fit into the problem that I am
>trying to solve.
Well, synchronicity is at it again. Two nights ago I was working out what
to major in when I'm ready to go back to school (spent nearly four years
in college, switching majors so many times--Cinema, Japanese,
International Business, Engineering Physics--that I never got very far in
anything) and the two top contenders were Industrial and Systems
Engineering and Environmental Science. I may even end up doing both at
once to have some variety.
I'm not formally diagnosed ADD yet (hope to get that attended to this
week or next), but I figure even if I'm not ADD I certainly have enough
similarities to plan my education and career as if I am. Did you find
the Systems Engineering program sufficiently diverse to keep you
interested in pursuing the degree, or did you have to somehow "force
yourself" (for me, an impossible task) to make it through?
I've had trouble sticking with schoolwork and completing assignments since
I was in first grade. In college I actually made it through a full year
of intensive Japanese courses (equivalent to three years of regular
college Japanese) and got pretty decent grades, but that's only because I
had a full-time job as a security guard in which I was locked in an empty
building all night with absolutely nothing to do, and I always made it a
point to bring *only* my course materials. Best year of school ever,
everything else was a dismal failure.
Steve
--
Steve Conley It's now safe to turn off your television.
st...@coil.com http://www.coil.com/~steve
Chris Parsons
On 25 Nov 1996 12:12:33 -0500, st...@concourse.com (Steve Conley)
wrote:
>Chris Parsons <pars...@parsonsc.seanet.com> wrote:
>
>>BTW, I would recommend that anyone with ADD who is interested in
>>engineering consider system engineering. This can be a great job for
>>big-picture types. System design requires knowledge of a wide range
>>of scientific and engineering disciplines and the ability to
>>communicate with the detail technical types. I have never been able
>>to limit myself to a single discipline. I love being able to explore
>>new technologies and see how they might fit into the problem that I am
>>trying to solve.
>
>
>I'm not formally diagnosed ADD yet (hope to get that attended to this
>week or next), but I figure even if I'm not ADD I certainly have enough
>similarities to plan my education and career as if I am. Did you find
>the Systems Engineering program sufficiently diverse to keep you
>interested in pursuing the degree, or did you have to somehow "force
>yourself" (for me, an impossible task) to make it through?
>
Actually, back when I was in school, System Engineering was not yet a
separate engineering discipline. (That was 30 years ago) I don't
have any experience with formal System Engineering programs. My
degree was in Mechanical Engineering. And yes, it was a struggle. I
did OK but I was only a C student. I was lucky in one way though. I
knew exactly what I wanted to do. I had known that I wanted to be in
engineering since the 8th grade. I think that clear goal helped me to
get through. And I did like science and technology.
I stumbled into System Engineering when I hired on with my current
employer. That is where they needed help and it turned out to be a
good fit for me.
Wish I had some good advice to help you get through the class work.
As I mentioned above, I think a clear goal helps. Also, I am sure
that if I had been on meds back then, I would have done much better.
Good luck!
Chris Parsons
bat
Chris Parsons wrote:
<snip>
> >Pat Mc.
>
> Pat's comments on teaming up with a detail-oriented person are great.
> engineer in arrangements like that. I have lots of ideas, but am not
> good at making them happen, particularly when dealing with the
> bureaucracy. The detail people are great at dealing with the paper
> work and endless rules.
>
> Breed's though. I work as a systems engineer for a large company.
> There is a wide variety of activities within the organization. I can
> change jobs and even career without moving to another state or giving
> up my benefits. There is a lot of flexibility for finding the right
> job for me and I can move to something else easily if I burn out.
> (Granted, this may not be true at all large companies)
>
> engineering consider system engineering. This can be a great job for
> big-picture types. System design requires knowledge of a wide range
> of scientific and engineering disciplines and the ability to
> communicate with the detail technical types. I have never been able
> to limit myself to a single discipline. I love being able to explore
> new technologies and see how they might fit into the problem that I am
> trying to solve.
>
I would definitely agree with all of the above comments.
I have been studying computer science over the last year and things like
data structures or any of the abstract mathematical concepts are very
difficult for me, but the hardware and system configuration side of
things is just great! Unfortunately, we don't actually do much of that
in comp-sci. Most of what I have learned regarding hardware etc, I have
taught myself. I have come up with answers that have amazed technicians
that have been in the industry for years (I have only been into
computing for 18 months). Because of my strengths and weaknesses, I am
thinking about swapping over to a course that is more focussed on the
technical side of things (hardware, operating systems config, network
config, troubleshooting and reapairs). Hyperfocussing is great when
you're troubleshooting (any other techs' agree?).
Another interesting point concerns my part-time work making Baltic
furniture. Sometimes, I'm absolutely hopeless at understanding the
instructions on how to build a certain item, until I have worked it out
in my own head. Then I am fine. But evry time I learn a new item,
without fail, I develop a better system of construction than the guy who
runs the place and came up with all the ideas in the first place.
It's strange, because there are a lot of things I don't seem to have a
lot of aptitude in understanding how things go together, but I can see
the *overall* system much more clearly than most other people I know of.
Obviously that big picture thing again.
These things give you heart and increase your confidence.
I think we ADDers need this more than most people.
bat
Ned Kelly
Joe Parsons (j...@cyber-mall.com) wrote:
: I'll readily agree that success can be hard, but it is hard for
: EVERYONE--not just those of us who have ADD. Every field of
: endeavor--medicine, law, the arts, sales, relationships, you name
: it--is full of people who have had to struggle with one sort of
: disability or another to succeed. Try getting a law degree and
: passing the bar if you are dyslexic, for instance--or getting an
: MD when you are ADD. One of the common denominators of people who
: are successful in *any* endeavor is a refusal to give up.
A good question is when it is time to just give up. For example, me and
college. I tried it before I joined the Navy, and failed. I failed in
school as a kid with the same consistency as the Sun rising in the East.
It's really too bad that college is the checkpoint to all the really good
jobs. What do you do with the non-college-compatible people? Toss them
away like empty beer bottles or what?
While successful people are ones who don't just give up, there are many
others who are unsuccessful who havn't given up when they probably should
and try something else. I tried sales and proceeded to fall flat on my
face. My illustrious sales career lasted 8 days. As far as I can tell,
that's a pretty good indication of failure. I never did well in school,
which tells me that that's not an option.
--
Ned Kelly Lives!!!!!! http://www.suburbia.net/~nedkelly/Seppo_Navy.html
The Navy: It's Not Just A Job..... It's $cientology Lite!
Yes, there is hope at the bottom of a booze bottle.
Jaelle
On 28 Nov 1996 18:20:12 GMT, nedk...@ais.net (Ned Kelly) wrote:
>Joe Parsons (j...@cyber-mall.com) wrote:
>
>: I'll readily agree that success can be hard, but it is hard for
>: EVERYONE--not just those of us who have ADD. Every field of
>: endeavor--medicine, law, the arts, sales, relationships, you name
>: it--is full of people who have had to struggle with one sort of
>: disability or another to succeed. Try getting a law degree and
>: passing the bar if you are dyslexic, for instance--or getting an
>: MD when you are ADD. One of the common denominators of people who
>: are successful in *any* endeavor is a refusal to give up.
>
>A good question is when it is time to just give up. For example, me and
>college. I tried it before I joined the Navy, and failed. I failed in
>school as a kid with the same consistency as the Sun rising in the East.
>It's really too bad that college is the checkpoint to all the really good
>jobs. What do you do with the non-college-compatible people? Toss them
>away like empty beer bottles or what?
We start our own businesses alot. If you pick an area where there is a
need, you almost can't fail. You might not turn into Bill Gates, but
entrepreneurship is very compatible with ADD. You can do what you do
best, and hire accountants to do the stuff you're not good at.
>
>While successful people are ones who don't just give up, there are many
>others who are unsuccessful who havn't given up when they probably should
>and try something else. I tried sales and proceeded to fall flat on my
>face. My illustrious sales career lasted 8 days. As far as I can tell,
>that's a pretty good indication of failure. I never did well in school,
>which tells me that that's not an option.
What do you really do best? Can you turn it into a sideline?
Ned Kelly
Joe Parsons (j...@cyber-mall.com) wrote:
: I did sales for something over 25 years and I *never* really got
: it "right." Just as with other things (even acting), there's a
: craft that has to be learned. This is not to say that the
: profession of selling is for everyone--it's not. Writing
: *anything* off in such a short period of time because it doesn't
: come easily, however, is a predictable path to failure.
I daresay that 8 days and you get fired is quite an indication you
weren't selling well enough. Sales requires a talent and the ability to
put up with a lot of rejection. Of the few sales I did make, all of them
occured early on in the night. After about an hour, I was worn out from
trying and getting the rejection. I sure learned it's not for me quickly.
Basically, to learn something, it helps to have pre-existing aptitude for
it. You wouldn't expect a 5 foot tall person to play basketball and be
really good. He's too short. People low on social skills won't be too
good at sales, no matter how hard they may try.
T. Wadleigh
> Ned--
>
> On 26 Nov 1996 17:59:49 GMT, nedk...@ais.net (Ned Kelly) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >Except for "police" most if not all of those jobs listed are very hard to
> >get into and succeed. The ER doctor requires college up the arse, and
> >anything in the arts are VERY hard to break into, like any other industry
> >but worse. A sales person requires a talent AND a willingness to lie.
> >Let's face it. Success is very hard for us in this ADDer-hostile society.
>
> Hold on a minute.
>
> While there are plenty of salespeople who lie, lying is NOT a
> prerequisite for success in sales.
SNIP
Yep, that's true, remember Ned, in a previous e I mentioned that we
just came off of 3 years recruiting duty. My dude didn't want to get
guys into his beloved Corps by lying. He wanted fine young men. The
problems that stem in the field from letting just anyone in are not what
he wants to deal with so he put the emphasis on integrity. Was he
successful???? Yep, pretty much so. The last year he was SNCOIC for a
sub-station and increased the Depper pool over 200%.
>
> I'd suggest that society is not "hostile" toward ADDers
SNIP
> One of the common denominators of people who
> are successful in *any* endeavor is a refusal to give up.
>
> Joe Parsons
Here, Here! Perseverance... you can succeed, if not in the
conventional way, then make up your own way!!! BTW, Ned, what do you do
for a living now? and in case you don't think I am just way too
cheerful and don't yet want to slap me; I betcha you can name one
positive thing in your life today that has absolutely nothing to do with
the Navy...
C'mon, think about it...
T. Wadleigh
--
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Adversity causes struggle, struggle creates
strength, strength overcomes adversity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
twad...@onslowonline.net
Ned Kelly
T. Wadleigh (twad...@onslowonline.net) wrote:
: Here, Here! Perseverance... you can succeed, if not in the
: conventional way, then make up your own way!!! BTW, Ned, what do you do
: for a living now? and in case you don't think I am just way too
: cheerful and don't yet want to slap me; I betcha you can name one
: positive thing in your life today that has absolutely nothing to do with
: the Navy...
That's why I'm trying a real long shot in the form of acting. In case you
don't want to grep up a lot of rants on DejaNews, I work at the Post Office.
Chad C. Sines
Why do people assume that just because a person has ADD that he/she can
not lead a producitve and fulfilling life in any career. This goes back
to the self-esteem issue that many people have commented on. I
personally feel that many ADD people feel that they can not lead a life
in the career of their choosing and it's a bunch of hogwash. If you
want a certain career and are willing to work hard then you can achieve
it. As a senior in college with a double major in Biology and
Chemistry Pre-med, I know what it is to have to work hard. As an ADD
person, we have to work harder than others and many times force
ourselves to go on. I have felt pressure and I have experienced some
self doubt, but hasn't everyone. I am not about to let ADD ruin my
goals. I have worked hard to maintain a 3.2 throughtout college and a
GRE score of over 2200. Even non-ADD people have trouble achieving
that. People with ADD can achieve their goals and should never feel
like they should settle for anything.
Chad
che...@voy.net
Eric Zothner
Chris Parsons wrote:
> Pat's comments on teaming up with a detail-oriented person are great.
> I never thought of it that way! I've had most of my success as an
> engineer in arrangements like that. I have lots of ideas, but am not
> good at making them happen, particularly when dealing with the
> bureaucracy. The detail people are great at dealing with the paper
> work and endless rules.
I agree with Chris, and I have found that being a manager of technical
people is fun if there isn't too much politics. I lucked out because in
the 90's most good engineering firms wanted no-nonsense engineering
leaders, one part I guess because they realized how much money they were
wasting with the B.S. and secondly the teaming concept has finally taken
a hold in some of the companies that I wrote code for. Having a
technical mentor also helped me tremendously and they always seemed to
like it when I had the big picture in mind. It appeared to them that I
thought on their level.. but being an undiagnosed ADD'er usually wrecked
a good thing.
> BTW, I would recommend that anyone with ADD who is interested in
> engineering consider system engineering. This can be a great job for
> big-picture types. System design requires knowledge of a wide range
> of scientific and engineering disciplines and the ability to
> communicate with the detail technical types. I have never been able
> to limit myself to a single discipline. I love being able to explore
> new technologies and see how they might fit into the problem that I am
> trying to solve.
I also agree with that statement. I got so bored with the mundane
coding (after the problem was solved) that I would overly try to
complicate things to make it more interesting. Once I moved into
Business Design/Analysis and then shifted to a Senior SW Architecture
position I found the engineering and architecure aspects of system
engineering much more to my liking. If you follow any of Edward
Yourdon's writings, I love how he always mentions that there is never
enough time to read all the books on software engineering (over 200 must
read books to just be a competent software person!). Having this in
mind allows me to explore new technologies without the feeling that
everyone is technically superior to me. Vice-versa I know I am gifted to
work in this field even though I have a hard time brain dumping my
kernal code on everyone else around me.
Ned Kelly
Chad C. Sines (che...@voyageronline.net) wrote:
: Why do people assume that just because a person has ADD that he/she can
: not lead a producitve and fulfilling life in any career. This goes back
Just becuse you can do school doesn't mean every ADDer can do school. I
have tried. I failed miserably. :( I also failed socially as a kid.
That's why I have quite an emotional investment in my accent. The thing
with ADD is simply: Your Mileage May Vary(tm). My mileage is really bad.
Ned Kelly
Timothy L. (mirk...@tiac.net) wrote:
: In article <5846h1$o...@news2.ais.net>, nedk...@ais.net (Ned Kelly) wrote:
: :Just becuse you can do school doesn't mean every ADDer can do school. I
: :have tried. I failed miserably.
: That's because you're stupid Ned.
Oh, such nice language, you lame-arse piece of shit. If I was so stupid,
how could I be posting to this newsgroup?
: : :( I also failed socially as a kid.
: That's because you have no personality and you whine too much. Nobody
: likes a whiner, Ned.
Sorry, the other kids started it. You are just like a school child. Now,
run along back to your nuclear physics lab class and blow yourself to the
pieces of the shit that you are.
antU removed.
Steve Conley
Dear tiac.net Postmaster,
This individual's comments are entirely out of line for an alt.support.*
group. Please educate this user on proper news etiquette.
Thank you,
Steve Conley
System Administrator
Internet Concourse
In article <mirkwood-071...@p12.ts6.lowel.ma.tiac.com>,
Timothy L. <mirk...@tiac.net> wrote:
>In article <5846h1$o...@news2.ais.net>, nedk...@ais.net (Ned Kelly) wrote:
>
>:Just becuse you can do school doesn't mean every ADDer can do school. I
>:have tried. I failed miserably.
>
>That's because you're stupid Ned.
>
>: :( I also failed socially as a kid.
>
>That's because you have no personality and you whine too much. Nobody
>likes a whiner, Ned.
>
>
>
> http://www.tiac.net/users/mirkwood
Eisen Chao
Timothy L. (mirk...@tiac.net) wrote:
: In article <5846h1$o...@news2.ais.net>, nedk...@ais.net (Ned Kelly) wrote:
:
: :Just becuse you can do school doesn't mean every ADDer can do school. I
: :have tried. I failed miserably.
:
: That's because you're stupid Ned.
Hold on Tim, it's a little more complicated than
that. Even a 'stoopid' person can outperform Ned,
a 'stoopid' person (in America) potentially has what
it takes to better himself and everyone around him,
unlike a certain faux-Aussie social crank/critic:
Ned is an illustration of a more perverse side
to the unlimited and unparalleled freedoms that
we hold sacred in America.
Whereas some unfortunate people are afflicted
with ADDs and must struggle thru the simplest
tasks to make the best of life, Ned CHOSES to
make ADDs the 'reason' why he DOESN'T EVEN HAVE
TO MAKE THE SLIGHTEST EFFORT TO MAKE HIS LIFE
BETTER! Quite a difference there, wouldn't
you say ? Ned's afflictions are self-imposed
and are totally governed by his whims and wishes
whereas the others are the victims of circumstances.
Freedom of choice ... God Help America ...
And then Ned wonders why we have to import
immigrants into this country, forgetting the
massive shortfall in brainpower, productivity,
and national will caused by him and his ilk.
Ned has stated that he CANNOT find a job in
the high-tech area, that in AMERICA, with
a software business that employs hundreds of
thousands of people and did ONE HUNDRED
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of business world-wide last
year, that he cannot understand how people
such as himself can get jobs. This is after a
six-month period of training, references
provided, and job leads.
For the record, I would like to state that recently
an inexperienced white, male teenager, on medication
for manic/depression was able to get a help desk
job, with a little assistance on my part, in a
suburban Chicago hospital, and with a minimum of
training is now regarded as the most helpful and
competant person in his department.
Ned, OTOH, was categorically TURNED DOWN for this
position, even before an interview, based purely
on his reputation which precedes him. Ned has
deliberately turned his own life into a sad tale
of self-inflicted failure and self-pitying misery.
In short, Ned is his worse enemy, not anyone else.
Ned blaming ADDs is a piss-poor excuse and an insult
to REAL ADDs victims that actually have to go out and
TRY to make life better for themselves. It is THEY
who have no choice in defining their own lives, not Ned.
: : :( I also failed socially as a kid.
:
: That's because you have no personality and you whine too much. Nobody
: likes a whiner, Ned.
If Polio ever succeeded in getting a date, the unlucky
& unfortunate person would not be woo-ed with the
traditional "wining & dining" but more like a
case of "whining and dinn-ing" ....
nancy g.
Eisen Chao wrote:
(many, many unpleasant remarks snipped)
Umm ... guys? Regardless of whatever has caused this problem between
you and our regular group member Ned, and regardless of whatever your own
personal opinions about him might be, could you please keep one thing in
mind as you post?
The alt.support.attn-deficit newsgroup is exactly what its name says:
A group where the regular members try to provide *SUPPORT* for each other.
Your comments are, to say the least, NON-supportive -- not just of Ned,
but of many others of us who read this group and who do not have the
slightest connection at all with your newsgroup or with any of its regular
members.
We would really appreciate it if you could remove a.s.a-d from the
headers of your notes back and forth, so that our support group can
remain free to do just that -- offer SUPPORT to those who need it,
and not judgments about whether or not they deserve that support in
the first place.
Thanks for understanding. Some day you may have some kind of situation
that requires you to seek non-judgmental support from others who will
appreciate what you're going through -- I hope you find such support when
you need it, and I hope you find that it is free from flames.
Nancy G.
not here to judge, just to help when I can
P. Edward Murray
Hi friends,
Ok, I know it's Monday but let's give it a rest...Like Nancy said this is
a support group...so guys, whatever is the problem let's talk about it,
why waste energy and time beating our own peers with baseball bats? The
politicians do enough of that why do we have to be the same... Anyway it
really doesn't make things better.
Ed Murray
Ken Ehrett
P. Edward Murray wrote:
>
>
> Hi friends,
>
> Ok, I know it's Monday but let's give it a rest...Like Nancy said this is
> a support group...so guys, whatever is the problem let's talk about it,
> why waste energy and time beating our own peers with baseball bats? The
> politicians do enough of that why do we have to be the same... Anyway it
> really doesn't make things better.
>
> Ed Murray
Well gee Ed, "this" is a flame group but if you really want to solve the
problem then buy a gun. Ned doesn't catch on very fast and he's easy to
spot since from what I've heard he has a long flea infested scraggly
beard and generally looks like something that dropped out of a hobo's
ass. Your only other option is to drive him from your NG since he's
responsible for this in the first place.
Ken
Ken Ehrett
nancy g. wrote:
>
> Eisen Chao wrote:
>
> (many, many unpleasant remarks snipped)
>
> Umm ... guys? Regardless of whatever has caused this problem between
> you and our regular group member Ned, and regardless of whatever your own
> personal opinions about him might be, could you please keep one thing in
> mind as you post?
>
> The alt.support.attn-deficit newsgroup is exactly what its name says:
> A group where the regular members try to provide *SUPPORT* for each other.
> Your comments are, to say the least, NON-supportive -- not just of Ned,
> but of many others of us who read this group and who do not have the
> slightest connection at all with your newsgroup or with any of its regular
> members.
You can thank Ned for this one since he is the one who cross-posted the
thread in the first place. BTW, Ned even commented in a previous post
that that he was looking forward to seeing how it would develop. Yes,
that's right, one of your mutants caused all this and is now sitting
back and laughing at all the abuse you're taking. And guess what? It's
going to get worse.
>
> We would really appreciate it if you could remove a.s.a-d from the
> headers of your notes back and forth, so that our support group can
> remain free to do just that -- offer SUPPORT to those who need it,
> and not judgments about whether or not they deserve that support in
> the first place.
Sorry, but I'm afraid that you will have to learn the hard way what a
sneaky little instigator rat your boy Ned really is. REQUEST DENIED!
>
> Thanks for understanding. Some day you may have some kind of situation
> that requires you to seek non-judgmental support from others who will
> appreciate what you're going through -- I hope you find such support when
> you need it, and I hope you find that it is free from flames.
No, No. It is you who do not understand. The only peace offering
acceptable to us is Ned's total banishment from your NG. Drive him out
now or face our wrath.
>
Nessa
On 8 Dec 1996 23:36:07 GMT, nedk...@ais.net (Ned Kelly) commented:
>
>Timothy L. (mirk...@tiac.net) wrote:
>: In article <5846h1$o...@news2.ais.net>, nedk...@ais.net (Ned Kelly) wrote:
>
>: :Just becuse you can do school doesn't mean every ADDer can do school. I
>: :have tried. I failed miserably.
>
>: That's because you're stupid Ned.
>
>Oh, such nice language, you lame-arse piece of shit. If I was so stupid,
>how could I be posting to this newsgroup?
Hey Ned,
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to post to usenet. Or a
college grad. Or even a human being... I'm sure there are plenty of
uneducated Area 51 people hanging around.
>
>: : :( I also failed socially as a kid.
>
>: That's because you have no personality and you whine too much. Nobody
>: likes a whiner, Ned.
>
>Sorry, the other kids started it. You are just like a school child. Now,
>run along back to your nuclear physics lab class and blow yourself to the
>pieces of the shit that you are.
So? Be an adult and turn the other check. The truth is (and this
will hurt) you do whine and complain and make excuses. You don't go
to therapy or doctors and you use that lame excuse about not having
medical coverage to get help.
Face facts Ned. 1997 is coming up soon. Maybe it's time for a
resolution to clean up your act?
Nessa
-----
It's been said patience is a virtue, but I'm not a virtuous woman.
ne...@ix.netcom.com
Walt Twardus
Ned Kelly
Ken Ehrett (ehr...@mail.ameritel.net) wrote:
: You can thank Ned for this one since he is the one who cross-posted the
: thread in the first place. BTW, Ned even commented in a previous post
No, it was Timmy Leonhardt that started it, idiot.
: No, No. It is you who do not understand. The only peace offering
: acceptable to us is Ned's total banishment from your NG. Drive him out
: now or face our wrath.
Sorry, idiot, but You must leave. You idiots woke up a sleeping giant.
--
Ned Kelly Lives!!!!!! http://www.suburbia.net/~nedkelly/Seppo_Navy.html
The Navy: It's Not Just A Job..... It's $cientology Lite!
In an alternate universe, Rush Limbaugh posts as Ned Kelly.
Insectus Pentius
Steve Conley (st...@concourse.com) wrote:
: Actually, I think alt.nuke.the.USA is basically an alt.syntax.tactical/
: alt.bigfoot wannabe group (OOOOh, now THERE'S something to aspire to!)
: whose purpose is to "invade" other newsgroups and cause trouble. Their
: fun can be dampened by taking alt.nuke.the.USA out of the Newsgroups:
: header in your replies. Then they'd have to actually read this group,
: which will probably be too much work for the little bit of jollies they
: get out of harrassing Ned.
I advocate the same thing. That way, also they become easier to turn in to
their Admins. For those who have a need to reply, remove a.s.a-d from the
Newsgroups: header and replace it with antU's little brother, alt.nuke.the.usa
or alt.usa-sucks . I'm in the process of switching ISP's becuse my AIS account
is shut off! I complain about users on other systems to their Admins, but for
some lame reason I end up having to talk to MY Admin to get to use MY account
again! Talk about a LAME ISP. This is a free troll account I use in
emergencies, like this. I'm sending in my cheque to get full access and I'm
kissing AIS goodby.
Steve Conley
nancy g. <nan...@tiac.net> wrote:
>The alt.support.attn-deficit newsgroup is exactly what its name says:
>A group where the regular members try to provide *SUPPORT* for each other.
>Your comments are, to say the least, NON-supportive -- not just of Ned,
>but of many others of us who read this group and who do not have the
>slightest connection at all with your newsgroup or with any of its regular
>members.
Actually, I think alt.nuke.the.USA is basically an alt.syntax.tactical/
alt.bigfoot wannabe group (OOOOh, now THERE'S something to aspire to!)
whose purpose is to "invade" other newsgroups and cause trouble. Their
fun can be dampened by taking alt.nuke.the.USA out of the Newsgroups:
header in your replies. Then they'd have to actually read this group,
which will probably be too much work for the little bit of jollies they
get out of harrassing Ned.
Steve
--
Steve Conley It's now safe to turn off your television.
st...@coil.com http://www.coil.com/~steve
!! By sending me any unsolicited advertisments in email, you hereby consent
!! to having 5 days of articles from alt.tasteless sent back to you.
A. Campbell
In <32ACD9...@mail.ameritel.net> Ken Ehrett
<ehr...@mail.ameritel.net> writes:(Snip of dumb stuff)
"It's going to get worse?" Oh, how scary, you know
you really sound like children, this ng is for people over a certain
age you know, for instance I am a 43 year old woman and the mother
of a 10 year old boy. You have no business disrupting our group
]for some PETTY adolescent crap. No go play in your own yard.
And be good or I will tell on you.
>nancy g. wrote:
>>
>> Eisen Chao wrote:
>>
>>
Ken Ehrett
Ned Kelly wrote:
>
> Ken Ehrett (ehr...@mail.ameritel.net) wrote:
>
> : You can thank Ned for this one since he is the one who cross-posted the
> : thread in the first place. BTW, Ned even commented in a previous post
>
> No, it was Timmy Leonhardt that started it, idiot.
>
> : No, No. It is you who do not understand. The only peace offering
> : acceptable to us is Ned's total banishment from your NG. Drive him out
> : now or face our wrath.
>
> Sorry, idiot, but You must leave. You idiots woke up a sleeping giant.
>
Little Ned, throwing a fit, making pathetic threats and boring us with
his psycotic ramblings again. BTW, all you ADDers out there. Look at
where Ned continues to cross post this thread. You really should take
my advice and throw his sorry ass out of your NG. Just look at all the
trouble he's causing by keeping this thread going in a flame group.
Ken
Cynthia Danziger
Ned Kelly wrote:
>
> Timothy L. (mirk...@tiac.net) wrote:
> : In article <5846h1$o...@news2.ais.net>, nedk...@ais.net (Ned Kelly) wrote:
>
> : :Just becuse you can do school doesn't mean every ADDer can do school. I
> : :have tried. I failed miserably.
>
> : That's because you're stupid Ned.
>
> Oh, such nice language, you lame-arse piece of shit. If I was so stupid,
> how could I be posting to this newsgroup?
>
>
> : That's because you have no personality and you whine too much. Nobody
> : likes a whiner, Ned.
>
> Sorry, the other kids started it. You are just like a school child. Now,
> run along back to your nuclear physics lab class and blow yourself to the
> pieces of the shit that you are.
>
>
> --
> Ned Kelly Lives!!!!!! http://www.suburbia.net/~nedkelly/Seppo_Navy.html
> The Navy: It's Not Just A Job..... It's $cientology Lite!
>
Ned....
Just because you have ADD, does not give you a reason to wine, pout and
make everyone else feel sorry for you. Having ADD has been one of the
best things that has EVER happened to me. YES, I too had a shitty
childhood, and I was a terible student, But that has made me go the
extra mile to be the best person I possibly can. I am a 20 year old
professional and A Part time student studying a double major! I am
working my tail off to make sure my adult years dont end up like my
Childhood years! So, maybe this year you need to make a resolution,
Change your attitude, Then change your life!
- Cynthia -
Nessa
My husband's CGI conference is robomoterated. Weird...
On 11 Dec 1996 15:21:09 GMT, pen...@ripco.com (Insectus Pentius)
commented:
>
>gene...@aol.com wrote:
>
>: Possibly that would be a reason to convert to a moderated group. MSN
>: already has a moderated ADD group.
>
>I think a robomodreated group would be best. I'd be glad to help design the
>bot and put it on my Suburbia account. The "bot" would be to have a killfile
>to killfile trolls after a vote among us ADDers.
Insectus Pentius
P. Edward Murray
Nessa,
This sounds like a great idea! Gang, let's try to do something like
this... it might take care of "Doc Frager" & his pals at least for this
newsgroup!
Ed Murray
Susie
I'm in favor of a moderator...I tend to read their posts & sort of get
carried away myself...I'd rather not get embroiled in situations like
this, but it's tough - I get attracted to high-stimulus temptations...
- susie
GeneDoug
Unitarians have a robomoderated group. It is programmed to spot words
like MONEY, and $$ and FAST CASH and probably profanity or the names of
certain people. I suspect that a moderator decides this, to avoid taking
sides in a flame war, though there isn't much of that there. When
somebody is snide, others call attention to it, and after all, our purpose
is to be together.
Obviously, if one were marked by name, he could simply change his name.
But the businesses that are spamming might be identified as fast as their
name change is spotted by central servers like aol.
Gene Douglas
"We would spend less time worrying about what people think of us, if we realized how seldom they do." --Oscar Wilde
Jim Manson
Ken Ehrett <ehr...@mail.ameritel.net> wrote:
>
>No, No. It is you who do not understand. The only peace offering
>acceptable to us is Ned's total banishment from your NG. Drive him out
>now or face our wrath.
Face our wrath? Geez- where do they get these morons?
Just what we need- a 14 year old on their parents ID threatening
people.
Elvis Presley
look in the FAQ, there are good mailing lists which don't put up with
the crap that is posted here.
P. Edward Murray (edwa...@erols.com) wrote:
: Nessa,
Insectus Pentius
Jim Manson (jman...@skypoint.com) wrote:
: Ken Ehrett <ehr...@mail.ameritel.net> wrote:
I already complained to his Admin.... a SECOND time. Maybe he's going to
have to get another ISP. I'm also archiving his crosspostings to this
group and his antU group. Come to think of it, it's time to configure some
Procmail if he decides to email (f)lame me.
How this all started was a long time ago, I posted to alt.nuke.the.USA an
article thanking Saddam Hussein for his tantrum that caused Desert Storm,
and make me a war vet. Without Saddam, I could never have gotten into the
Post Office. Needless to say, he objected, and sent me an email (f)lame.
We flamed each other, until I got him out of my mailbox by telling him I
was going to make a shell script to auto-post his email lames to HIS
favourite newsgroup! He never tried his luck. :)
Procmail and shell scripts make a very effective email flame deterrent.
Tim Brown
"P. Edward Murray" <edwa...@erols.com> writes:
>This sounds like a great idea! Gang, let's try to do something like
>this... it might take care of "Doc Frager" & his pals at least for this
>newsgroup!
Right. It might take care of the people that you don't agree with. Which
is why you are for it: Because you can't stand anyone disagreeing with
you.
--
bath...@iglou.com http://members.iglou.com/bathroom
STOP PUBLIC SCHOOL UNIFORMS -- IT'S YOUR FIGHT, MASON COUNTY!
Fight the Leis/Moon conspiracy!
Nessa
On Wed, 11 Dec 1996 23:54:28 GMT, jman...@skypoint.com (Jim Manson)
commented:
>Ken Ehrett <ehr...@mail.ameritel.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>No, No. It is you who do not understand. The only peace offering
>>acceptable to us is Ned's total banishment from your NG. Drive him out
>>now or face our wrath.
>
>
>Face our wrath? Geez- where do they get these morons?
>
>
>Just what we need- a 14 year old on their parents ID threatening
>people.
>
>
Hey do you think they will be shocked to see OUR WRATH. Tell me Jim
when have you ever seen ASAD be KIND to Trolls. (except of course Tim
who we all PROMISED to be kind to in the never ending version of be
KIND to Tim Brown Week).
Hey I love to play word games with cretins who can't hold a candle to
me. I've won more arguements that way then we care to remember here.
The saying goes "DON'T mess with NESS!"
<VBG> Let the games begin
Sara Freeman
>
>"P. Edward Murray" <edwa...@erols.com> writes:
>
>>This sounds like a great idea! Gang, let's try to do something like
>>this... it might take care of "Doc Frager" & his pals at least for
this
>>newsgroup!
>
>Right. It might take care of the people that you don't agree with.
Which
>is why you are for it: Because you can't stand anyone disagreeing
with
>you.
DITTO
--
"If you think of reality as the software for the universe,
all it would take is for someone to change a comma in the
program, and the chair you are sitting on wouldn't be a
chair at all."--Jacques Vallee
Insectus Pentius
Nessa (ne...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: On Wed, 11 Dec 1996 23:54:28 GMT, jman...@skypoint.com (Jim Manson)
: commented:
: >Ken Ehrett <ehr...@mail.ameritel.net> wrote:
: >>No, No. It is you who do not understand. The only peace offering
: >>acceptable to us is Ned's total banishment from your NG. Drive him out
: >Face our wrath? Geez- where do they get these morons?
: Hey do you think they will be shocked to see OUR WRATH. Tell me Jim
: when have you ever seen ASAD be KIND to Trolls. (except of course Tim
: who we all PROMISED to be kind to in the never ending version of be
: KIND to Tim Brown Week).
This Ken Ehrett troll seems to already have met his Waterloo. I have his
crosspostings to a.s.a-d and antU archived. He already got his account
locked twice.
I have gotten email from an antU regular after I posted to antU and antu
warning them not to crosspost in here. It seems that many of the antU
regulars have occasional meets, and in one, it was discussed to near
unanimous agreement that alt.support.* was off limits to their alt.bigfoot
activities. Only a few of the most cretinous partook in the trolling and
flaming here.
Maybe once they see Ken Ehrett be made the example, they might respect
support groups more. :) To forward this aim, once I find out how to make a
web page on this account, I will put the archives of the a.s.a-d/antU
trolls for all to see the lamers, for the benefit of BOTH groups.
Amazingly, there is a "rules of engagement" in the flame "community". It's
just that some get carried away.
John Palmer
Tim Brown (bath...@iglou1.iglou.com) wrote:
: "P. Edward Murray" <edwa...@erols.com> writes:
: >This sounds like a great idea! Gang, let's try to do something like
: >this... it might take care of "Doc Frager" & his pals at least for this
: >newsgroup!
: Right. It might take care of the people that you don't agree with. Which
: is why you are for it: Because you can't stand anyone disagreeing with
: you.
Nod. I'm sure that Jack and Dave both consider me to be the one
person most in love with agreement, for example.
mspr...@aol.com
> >>No, No. It is you who do not understand. The only peace offering
>: >>acceptable to us is Ned's total banishment from your NG. Drive him
out
Haven't seen the twit who posted thisd. Guess he ran out of wrath. (Is
there an herb that perks up wrath?)
Mark S. Probert
Long Island, New York
Insectus Pentius
mspr...@aol.com wrote:
: Haven't seen the twit who posted thisd. Guess he ran out of wrath. (Is
: there an herb that perks up wrath?)
Mark, That Ken Ehrett was netcopped twice by yours truely, both as Ned
Kelly and Insectus Pentius. He was probably kicked off the system. He
underestimated MY wrath!
The antU idiots found their Waterloo. :)hehehe
Jaelle
On Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:02:59 -0800, "P. Edward Murray"
<edwa...@erols.com> wrote:
>Nessa,
>
>This sounds like a great idea! Gang, let's try to do something like
>this... it might take care of "Doc Frager" & his pals at least for this
>newsgroup!
>
>Ed Murray
Add me to the "in favor of" list. Looking through today's download, it
looks like more than half of the headers have "Frager" or "Aliens" in
them. Seriously off-topic. Not to mention a major waste of time.
mspr...@aol.com
In article <58kmu4$3...@colossus.holonet.net>, Cynthia Danziger
<Cyn...@Imagenet1.com> writes:
>Ned....
> Just because you have ADD, does not give you a reason to wine,
pout and
Hi Cynthia:
Ned is no longer with us. You will see no more posts from Ned Kelly. He
was hounded out of USENET by a concerted effort of flamers from some
weirdo newsgroup.
Insectus Pentius
mspr...@aol.com wrote:
: Ned is no longer with us. You will see no more posts from Ned Kelly. He
: was hounded out of USENET by a concerted effort of flamers from some
: weirdo newsgroup.
That's what I mean by an ADDer-hostile society. Please see my Manifesto I
posted. What's really sad is how people can't understand my misanthropic
feelings.
--
Microsoft is living proof that a sales talent is vastly more useful in a
capitalist society than intelligence. A person with an IQ of 1,000 could
die destitute, but a cretin with a sales talent can become a billionaire
A. Campbell
In <59mlva$9vl$1...@gail.ripco.com> pen...@ripco.com (Insectus Pentius)
writes:
Ned doesn't really "bug" me though, if you know what I mean.
Ann
poote...@aol.com
Any annoying personalities in this newsgroup are prime examples of
ADD.
i.e., bad attention is better than no attention at all ! ! ! !
The flamers will hopefully learn to get attention in a
constructive way, seek
professional help, learn behavior modification techniques, get
medicated,
get another life, or become distracted and hyper-focus on another
topic.
Think about it, ADDers lose interest when the pleasure is gone and
flamers
get their pleasure by getting you to respond with a flame. There
is a mature
difference between a heated debate and trying to pick a fight.
Sorting through
the garbage with the delete key may be annoying but does not
deserve my
attention to retalliate. No contest, you win, didn't hurt, not my
game, so.....
poof............your gone. I may be ADHD, but I'm not stupid. I
can tell when
I am dealing with a mature poster or not. Besides, taking out the
garbage is
just one of those unpleasant tasks that has to be done so do it
with a smile!
And for the "POSTING UNDER MY NAME GAME", well a simple personal
Email to the "AUTHOR" can verify authenticity and verasity. A
BOGUS Post
is an attempt to inspire a response, a rebutal, or a retraction
from the one
being impersonated. If you reply or acknowledge it by posting to
the group
then it worked, and therein lies the pleasure to the gamer. When
in doubt, I
respond on a personal level via direct Email to the "proclaimed"
author and
"Spoil all the Fun"! A BOGUS Post will not deliver properly and a
personal
Email note to the one being impersonated, stating that I didn't
fall for the
PHONY POST, gives us the pleasure and laughs instead. This
displaced
fun is the only way to defeat that game. No challenge, no contest,
no interest.
The games don't work when you don't participate!
TTFN,
Poote...@aol.com {8^)
WAPeabody
Pooterwhiz,
>> Think about it, ADDers lose interest when the pleasure is gone and
flamers get their pleasure by getting you to respond with a flame. There
is a mature difference between a heated debate and trying to pick a fight.
Sorting through the garbage with the delete key may be annoying but does
not
deserve my attention to retalliate. No contest, you win, didn't hurt,
not my
game, so.....poof............your gone. <<
Yep, I can relate. Too much energy to spend elsewhere, though I do read
the occasional odd post for amusement, I generally ignore them. It's
easier that way. <g>
Wendy