UPDATED Joseph Tsiyoni FAQ
Ron's Inspector's Inspector
"joetov backward is vote oj" -- Robin Muskett
Executive Summary
Joe Tsiyoni, who has used the alias "Pat Carroll," is an individual who
makes inappropriate commercial posts to the Usenet newsgroup
alt.support.asthma. These commercial posts are made in support of sales for
a book detailing a potentially risky asthma "treatment." [33] Joe has lost
accounts at America On-Line [6] and Prodigy [23] for spamming and
inappropriate conduct. He has admitted abusing free trial accounts to spam
Usenet [36]. Joe has made numerous threats which he has never carried out
[47], and has insulted people who disagreed with him[49], in one case
calling someone a bad parent for not purchasing the product he advertised
[22]. He has done all of this despite inviting others to ask critical
questions of him [27]. Joe believes that he should be hailed as a savior by
the group and cannot (or will not) understand why he is not profusely
thanked for his commercial activity on the group. [49].
Table of Contents
Executive Summary
0.0 Purpose
0.1 Authorship
0.2 Why This FAQ?
0.3 Frequency of Posting
0.4 Updates and Corrections
0.5 Update History
0.6 Mirrors
1.0 Who Is Joe Tsiyoni?
1.1 What names has Joe used?
1.2 What accounts has Joe posted from?
1.2.1 Joe Tsiyoni's DejaNews Profile
1.2.2 Pat Carroll (Prodigy) DejaNews Profile
1.2.3 joetov's DejaNews Profile
1.2.4 Pat Carroll (Primenet) DejaNews Profile
1.2.5 josephaz (Primenet) DejaNews Profile
1.3 Why did Joe lose his Prodigy accounts?
1.4 Why did Joe get in trouble with AOL?
1.5 Joe and Primenet
1.6 Joe's Additional Usenet Activity
2.0 What is Joe's product?
2.1 Who is Dr. Koder?
2.2 Does this treatment "process" work?
2.2.1 Special concerns regarding aspirin-sensitive asthma
2.3 What claims has Joe made?
2.4 What is Joe's medical background?
2.5 Does Joe offer other products?
3.0 Why is Joe such a problem?
3.1 Why doesn't he run afoul of the automated spam detectors?
3.1.1 Are they really spam, then?
3.2 What happens when you complain to or about Joe?
3.2.1 Examples of threats
3.2.1.1 Threat against Paul Boven
3.2.1.2 Threat against Richard Schrader
3.2.1.3 Threats of lawsuits and other demands
3.2.1.4 Explicit threat of legal action
3.2.1.5 Another threat of legal and other action
3.2.2 Examples of defamation
3.2.2.1 Defamation of Julie Thornton
3.2.2.2 Defamation and Harassment of Kristy Kunz
3.2.2.3 Defamation of Michael Lim
3.2.3 Examples of insults
3.2.3.1 Insults in Yiddish
3.2.3.2 Accusations of racism
3.2.3.3 More insults
3.3 Why did people ask critical questions in the first place?
3.4 What Internet recognition has Joe earned?
3.5 What does Joe think of this FAQ?
3.6 What does Joe think about himself?
3.7 Has Joe abused Internet service?
4.0 The Other Pat Carroll
5.0 What is the best way to handle Joe?
5.1 Should I contact Joe directly?
5.2 What are other users doing about it?
5.3 How can I report his abuse of Usenet?
6.0 More References
7.0 Credits
7.1 Legalese
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0.0 Purpose
The purpose of this FAQ is to provide readers of the Usenet newsgroup
alt.support.asthma with background and information regarding Joseph Tsiyoni,
aliases "Pat Carroll," "Joetov," "Josephaz," and "Joseph Goodman." It can be
used to provide corroboration if needed should this individual threaten them
or their ISPs.
This document is NOT intended to harm the businesses or damage the
reputations of anyone named herein.
0.1 Authorship
This document written and maintained by David R. Kendrick. See the copyright
and disclaimers below.
0.2 Why This FAQ?
Joe answers this in his own words [46]:
no abusive message can stop anything, Those who are abusine must be
condem.
Let's condem abusine people. Thank you.
0.3 Frequency of Posting
The FAQ will reside on the World Wide Web at
http://www.kendrick.org/joetov.htm with additional mirrors.
This FAQ will be reposted whenever a spam attack of advertisements for the
product described herein to alt.support.asthma is in progress. It will be
updated as events warrant.
0.4 Updates and Corrections
Because of the difficulty in maintaining separate flat-text and HTML
versions of this FAQ, the posted Usenet version and the Web version may be
slightly out of sync from time to time. If this happens, please let me know
and I will fix the problem.
Please report any factual errors in this document to its author, David
Kendrick. I regret any factual errors and will correct them when reported.
0.5 Update History
Version Comment Posting Date
1.0 First Edition 30 Dec 1996
1.1 Added Usenet activity in 1/98; reformatted HTML 29 Jan 1998
1.2 Added Joe's threat via e-mail 05 Mar 1998
1.3 Added March-April Usenet activity and mirrors 07 Apr 1998
1.3.1 Added new mirror and more reader opinion 10 Apr 1998
1.4 Added new Primenet account, mailbombings, and latest Usenet activity 1
Jun 1998
1.5 Added MSTies, new mirror, Yiddish exchanges, latest Usenet activity 12
Jul 1998
Current: 1.6 Added latest Usenet activity and medical warning 02 May 1999
0.6 Mirrors
This page is mirrored by Chris King in the United Kingdom at
http://www.csking.demon.co.uk/kooks/joetov.htm.
This page is mirrored by Colin Campbell in the United States at
http://home.pacbell.net/colin/joetov.htm.
This page is mirrored by Michael J. Lim in the United States at
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/6249/joetov.htm.
1.0 Who Is Joe Tsiyoni?
The individual's real name is "Joseph Tsiyoni." He has posted under this
name, under the name of "Pat Carroll," and as "joetov" from America Online,
Prodigy, and Primenet. There is a Joseph Tsiyoni listed in the telephone
directory for Tempe, Arizona, at the same address at which Joseph's business
is based. There is also a "Pat Carroll" listed at this address [42].
Joe is based in Arizona. Through his company, Shairon International Trade
Company [12] he offers a food-based remedy "process" for asthma which is
described in a "press release." Joe's first language is not English, which
is evidenced by the many grammatical and spelling mistakes in his posts.
Shairon International Trade Company was apparently not listed with the
Arizona Better Business Bureau as of July 10, 1998 [29]. He has stated that
he is not a member of the Arizona Better Business Bureau [50].
I will not publish as part of this document his full real name, or any
address or phone number. I am not interested in even indirectly advertising
his business or violating his privacy nor in helping anyone else to do so,
even though Joe has published to Usenet the home addresses of his detractors
including mine [45].
Joe has claimed to be, at various times in his life [50], one or more of the
following:
A professional investigator
An employee of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service
An auditor
President of three professional organizations
An employee of a foreign government
He has also claimed to have initiated and won legal claims in four U.S.
states [50].
1.1 What names has Joe used?
Names used, in approximate chronological order:
"Joseph Goodwill" (in signature of article) [19]
"Joe Tsiyoni" (July 1, 1996 through July 20, 1996)
"Pat Carroll" (July 30, 1996 through August 14, 1996)
"Joseph Goodman" (as author of book) [20]
"joetov" (October 31, 1996 through December 30, 1996)
"pat Carroll" (January 17, 1998 through April 7, 1998)
"joseph" (May 5, 1998 through most recent posts)
1.2 What accounts has Joe posted from?
The following accounts have been used:
Joe posted as "Joe Tsiyoni" from BKL...@prodigy.com
The first group of postings as "Pat Carroll" were made from
LKW...@prodigy.com
The "joetov" postings were from joe...@aol.com
The January-April 1998 "pat Carroll" postings were made from
pcar...@primenet.com and car...@primenet.com. This account now appears to
be connected to an auto-responder.
The May 1998 "joseph" postings were made from jose...@primenet.com.
June-July 1998 posts have been made from both jose...@primenet.com and
pcar...@primenet.com.
May 1999 posts were made from jose...@primenet.com.
1.2.1 Joe Tsiyoni's DejaNews Profile
Profile obtained January 29, 1998.
23 unique articles posted.
Number of articles posted to individual newsgroups (slightly skewed by
cross-postings):
20 alt.support.asthma
3 misc.kids.health
1.2.2 Pat Carroll (Prodigy) DejaNews Profile
Profile obtained January 29, 1998.
51 unique articles posted.
Number of articles posted to individual newsgroups (slightly skewed by
cross-postings):
51 alt.support.asthma
1.2.3 joetov's DejaNews Profile
Profile obtained January 29, 1998.
128 unique articles posted.
Number of articles posted to individual newsgroups (slightly skewed by
cross-postings):
113 alt.support.asthma
8 alt.gambling
4 alt.las-vegas.gambling
3 rec.gambling.lottery
1.2.4 Pat Carroll (Primenet) DejaNews Profile
Profile obtained April 30, 1999.
There are 107 unique messages by "P. Carroll" <pcar...@primenet.com>:
Number of Messages * Forum
107 alt.support.asthma
* numbers may be slightly skewed by cross-postings
One additional article was posted to alt.support asthma by the
pcar...@primenet.com account on January 19, 1998 [33]. It was not, however,
catalogued at DejaNews as of January 29, 1998.
1.2.5 josephaz (Primenet) DejaNews Profile
Profile obtained April 30, 1999.
There are 113 unique messages by joseph <jose...@primenet.com>:
Number of Messages * Forum
111 alt.support.asthma
1 alt.support
1 relcom.penpals
* numbers may be slightly skewed by cross-postings
1.3 Why did Joe lose his Prodigy accounts?
Joe has used, and apparently lost, two Prodigy accounts. He used both
accounts to spam the advertisement to alt.support.asthma and to attack his
critics.
On July 30, 1996, Joe posted a statement from the "Pat Carroll" Prodigy
account which asked "usenet officials" to assist him [9]. That statement
itself was a genuine Usenet "cats and coffee" moment:
>Dear Usenet officials: Plesae send me your Email, fax
>and phone number for an urgent matter. Prodigy has
>advised me to contact you this way.
>Thnks.
The response from alt.support.asthma readers, aside from laughter, was much
derision.
The last post from the Joe Tsiyoni Prodigy account was July 20, 1996. The
Pat Carroll Prodigy account appeared ten days later and its last posting was
August 14, 1996. Pat Carroll's Prodigy postings were mass cancelled by
Prodigy because they did not "fit Prodigy 'Terms of Use'." [23]
1.4 What got Joe in trouble with AOL?
Joe's commercial postings and usenet spam, along with threatening e-mail,
were the subject of complaints to AOL's usenet abuse desk, ab...@aol.com.
These complaints came from a number of different users [7].
The "joe...@aol.com" account was listed on AOL's Usenet abuse bulletin,
posted to news.admin.net-abuse.announce on November 8, 1996, as a Usenet
abuser [6]. AOL's policies do not permit the service to describe what course
of action was taken against a user. AOL issued mass cancels for his
commercial postings on November 7, 1996 [4].
The joe...@aol.com account was still active as of November 15, 1996, but a
message sent to "joe...@aol.com" on January 29, 1998 was returned as
undeliverable because the mailbox did not exist [31].
1.5 Joe and Primenet
Joe is now using at least two accounts at Primenet. Interestingly, his
original advertisement in alt.support.asthma, which was posted on or about
January 17, 1998 and given message-ID <01bd255c$91762560$4715a5ce@default>,
is not archived at DejaNews.
The first Primenet account Joe used was pcar...@primenet.com. This account
was apparently attached to an autoresponder, as e-mail sent to it was
answered by a copy of the pitch "information" for Joe's asthma process.
[51].
Joe is now posting to Usenet from jose...@primenet.com. He has attempted
mailbombings from this account [48] as well as spamming Usenet.
Joe returned to alt.support.asthma on April 27, 1999 after more than a
year's absence, inappropriately posting nearly-identical copies of his pitch
as followups to two completely unrelated threads, one on a discussion of two
different prescription drugs [60], the other a question about an inhaler
[61]. Once again, newsgroup regulars made it plain to Joe that he was not
forgotten [62].
1.6 Joe's Additional Usenet Activity
As part of his return to Usenet in April 1999, Joseph (using the
jose...@primenet.com account) also tried his hand at the Usenet dating game
in this post to relcom.penpals [63]:
Hi, do you remember Joseph?
I do.
Call me. Thanks
Joe
olga wrote:
> Attractive Ukrainian woman 56/164/65, caring, warm,
> romantic seeks sincere, faithful man for marriage.
> I'll be very thankful if you answer me.
2.0 What is Joe's product?
Joe has promoted a food-based "process" for asthma and/orthe symptoms of
asthma based on omega-oil fatty acid. This"process" was allegedly given to
Joe by a doctor who treated his son for asthma. Originally, Joe claimed
that, through Dr. Koder, he "learned" the process [19]. He initially stated
that the materials for the treatment of his son cost $30, but later said $35
[22]. Joe has also claimed that unspecified "doctors" and "professionals"
have "urged" him to promote the treatment "process."
He posted this description of the process to Usenet as an attachment to an
advertisement [33]:
DR. KODER'S ASTHMA PROCESS NOW AVAILABLE
Dr. J. Julien Koder's asthma process is now available to the public. An
Israeli
physician, Dr. J. Koder, developed the process and helped hundreds of
people. The process
is based on preparing and consuming a natural grain.
I personally learned and used this process for my son and my brother. Within
six months,
my son no longer had any asthma symptoms, and my brother's asthmatic cough
disappeared. The process is simple and easy to administer. For more
information, please
send me an Email request. Thank you.
Joseph Tsiyoni, author of "AsthmaCare and Why My Son No Longer Suffers From
Asthma".
2.1 Who is Dr. Koder?
Joe gave the full name of Dr. Koder as "Dr. J. Julien Koder," an Israeli
physician [33]. According to Joe, Dr. Koder is deceased [40]. Joe's Usenet
posts have stated that Dr. Koder was Indian [57].
2.2 Does this treatment "process" work?
Some research has suggested that the use of certain oils, which contain
compounds that block the effect of leukotrienes, may be effective against
asthma symptoms. A new drug called Accolate (the trade name for zafirlukast)
contains these compounds.
You can find more information on Accolate on the World Wide Web at
www.pslgroup.com/dg/d9d2.htm [16]. This does not constitute an endorsement
of Accolate nor a reference for its effectiveness. Please consult your
doctor about any medications or processes.
2.2.1 Special concerns regarding aspirin-sensitive asthma
Recent medical research indicates that diets containing omega-oil fatty
acids presents a special risk to patients with aspirin-sensitive asthma
[64]:
Effects of a fish oil enriched diet on aspirin intolerant asthmatic
patients: a pilot study. Picado C, Castillo JA, Schinca N, Pujades M,
Ordinas A, Coronas A, Agusti-Vidal A
Servei de Pneumologia, Hospital Clinic, Facultad de Medicina, Barcelona,
Spain.
The effect of a fish oil enriched diet containing about 3 g of
eicosapentaenoic acid was studied in 10 patients with aspirin intolerant
asthma. Subjects were studied during six weeks on a control diet followed by
six weeks on the fish oil diet in a single blind study design. They were
asked to record their peak expiratory flow (PEF) twice daily, bronchodilator
and steroid doses, and subjective ratings of pulmonary symptoms on diary
cards. There were no significant changes in symptom scores over the six
weeks of either the control diet or the fish oil diet. PEF values, however,
were significantly lower during the fifth and sixth week of the fish oil
diet than during the control diet (308 v 262 l/min week 5 and 306 v 256
l/min week 6). Bronchodilator usage was also greater during the fifth and
sixth week of the fish oil diet than during the control period (12.0 v 7.4
and 13.0 v 7.4 puffs a day in weeks 5 and 6). This pilot study suggests that
fish diets may have a deleterious effect on patients with aspirin intolerant
asthma.
2.3 What claims has Joe made?
Joe has never explicitly claimed that the process promoted in his "press
release" and detailed in his book cures asthma. In fact he has stated
explicitly that there is no known cure for asthma [3]. However, he has
stated repeatedly that his son is free of asthma symptoms.
2.4 What is Joe's medical background?
Joe has explicitly stated that he has no medical background. He claims to
have a son who suffered severely from asthma. He also claims to have a
brother who has been helped by this "process" [20].
2.5 Does Joe offer other products?
He has posted ads for books on casino gaming to gambling-related newsgroups.
The ads for the gambling and asthma books are very similar, with bad English
grammar and spelling [5].
3.0 Why is Joe such a problem?
Joe's unique sales and promotion methods, combined with his spam approach to
publicity, cause the problems. Joe's method is as follows:
First, he will post come-ons for his press release and/or book to many
threads in alt.support.asthma. Typically, these will read something like,
"Check out my press release under subject. You may be happy." Typically, the
subject was "ASTHMA: BIG NEWS!" [1]
Joe invites people to "ask any questions" and "check credibility" [27].
That's when the problems begin.
Initially, Joe just posted an ad for his book and press release to be sent
by physical mail. He solicited addresses from readers for this purpose [2].
Later, Joe posted his press release and a direct ordering address for the
book along with a solicitation to purchase the book [8].
Most recently, Joe has begun promoting a Web site which contains some
details of his "process" as well as direct ordering information (including
pricing) of his book. Unfortunately, he has continued to promote his
materials by spamming the ads for the book and Web site to inappropriate
threads in alt.support.asthma [41].
The sheer volume of the come-ons are problematic, as is the possible
irrelevance of the thread to which they are appended. For example, Joe
posted his come-on to a thread on the topic of finding brassieres which
provide adequate support [13].
Joe has posted notes stating that complaints against him are based on "lies"
[26] and calls his detractors liars [24]. When asked specifically what lies
were told, Joe was curiously silent [25].
3.1 Why doesn't he run afoul of the automated spam detectors?
Joe's responses are individually different enough to avoid automated
cancellation as vertical spam; he posts them to few enough newsgroups so as
to avoid automatic horizontal-spam cancellation [28].
3.1.1 Are they really spam, then?
By most definitions, yes [28]. Inappropriate, unsolicited and repetitive
commercial posts to a Usenet newsgroup meet the definition of Usenet spam.
3.2 What happens when you complain to or about Joe?
Joe's method of handling criticism is to hurl insults [22], threaten legal
action [26], and impugn the character of his critics [24]. He has also begun
to accuse those who criticize him of attempting to dominate or otherwise
control the newsgroup itself [59].
He posts these threats to the newsgroups and sends them through private
e-mail. Joe will also accuse you of attempting to censor him [14], of
damaging his business by dissuading potential customers from contacting him
[18], or other nefarious aims such as endangering the public health [18].
3.2.1 Examples of threats
The following are examples of Joe's threats.
3.2.1.1 Threat against Paul Boven
Paul Boven posted a note stating that he was lodging a complaint regarding
Joe's spamming of alt.support.asthma with the AOL Usenet abuse desk [7].
Joe's response was posted to alt.support.asthma and addressed to the AOL
Usenet abuse administrator. In this response, Joe stated that Paul was
abusive, and demanded that a complaint be filed against Paul Boven for
making false statements, slander, e-mail harassment, and falsifying his
e-mail return address [17]. (Incidentally, the reason Joe thought Paul had
falsified his e-mail address was that Paul's return address, being on a
server based in the Netherlands, had a ".nl" suffix; Joe apparently thought
that anything that didn't end in ".com" was a fake.)
3.2.1.2 Threat against Richard Schrader
Richard Schrader posted a note asking for background information on Joe's
process [30].
Joe, on the Pat Carroll account, responded with an open threat of legal
action: "You are advised to immediately stop any and all comments, messages
and information you have been posting regarding me, my company, my release
and anything concerning my release. A personal message was forward to you,
and legal actions are considered. You are wrong, you misled the american
people, you may cause them damage and misunderstanding the nature of this
matter. You are playing with people health. Be careful." (Reformatting
mine.) [18]
3.2.1.3 Threats of Lawsuits and Other Demands
Joe responded to a challenge for proof of the effectiveness of his process
with the following: "We are a serious company conducting business in Arizona
and other countries.... We don't use the this venue to advertise, but to
bring the news about sthma to the public. ... Instead of using bad language
and deragatories comments, and by the way taking the rist of being sued, you
should have come up with some questions ... You should never publically
condem any sort of information ... Doing so you cause damage to business,
and prevent help to thousands people....Shairon Int'l. Trade Co is a
legitimate arizona company doing business in and out of the USA. ... I also
believe you owe me an appology." [15]
3.2.1.4 Explicit threat of legal action
Joe admitted abusing throwaway accounts in early spam episodes and made a
very specific threat of legal action [36].
Dear group:
There are a few people, such David kendrick and Chris King who have never
read the process, do not know what the "grain" or "natural food" is, are not
familiar with the international research result, and thus misleading you.
Please note that my name is Joseph, and the entire information is given to
anyone who request Email. In respecting the usenet rules, only a short
message has been posted, and only people who request the information
receive
t.
David kendrick is a person who launched personal attach with lies and pieces
of information, thus giving you a wrong idea. If and when it is possible,
David kendrick will be sued for defamation and other violation.
It is suggested that you, the person with asthma, ignore personal attach
from someone like David kendrick, and pay attention to the facts:
a. In this group, no business is proposed, only information. The message
is short, and there was only one message.
b. I have been using an mail under Pcarroll, and that is fine.
c. personal information, even in length, was given to everyone who
requested.
d. Previous Email addresses, as tests, were given under 50 free hours,
and at the time that the first version of the message was tested.
e. The process is well prepared, and very professional personnel,
including doctors ae involved. There are more details that can't be posted
here, and which people like Kendrick never tried to read or understand.
Anyone who need information, is welcome to contact my Email at
PCAR...@PRIMENET.COM
Take care of yourself, and please don't be fooled by irresponsible persons
like david Kendrick. Note also that another person, Colin Campble, has
posted not less than 33 subjects!!!!! How can one person has so much to say
just about everything?
You be the judge.
Sincerely
Joseph
3.2.1.5 Another explict threat of legal and other action
Chris King challenged Joe on a number of counts, including the different
names Joe has used. Joe's response, which included a lot of namecalling,
ended with this threat [47]:
Idios, until i get you.
Joseph
When the times comes, i will legally get you too, it is just a matter of
time.
Joseph
The statement that he will "legally get you too" makes the first "until I
get you" appear to be a threat of extra-legal action.
3.2.2 Examples of defamation
Personal attacks and defamation have also been used.
3.2.2.1 Defamation of Julie Thornton
Julie Thornton posted to alt.support.asthma an "open letter" to Joe asking
for more information.
Joe's response stated that her reaction would be appropriate in a
"dictatorship," that she "had a problem," might be guilty of "defamation,
slander, etc.", and that she had no "right to express your own opinion." Joe
accused her of "trying to turn people against [him]," and that she had no
"courage" to seek out new treatment possibilities [14].
3.2.2.2 Defamation and Harassment of Kristy Kunz
Kristy Kunz posted a note to alt.support.asthma in which she expressed some
frustration with Joe's approach: "If I was interetsed in your info you had,
I would have emailed you! But I wasnt so I didnt! If you were a GOOD
businessman, you would respect my wishes at that!" (reformatting mine) [21]
Joe's response (which was posted and e-mailed): "As far as your child, I
don't think you care much for your child. You have not read the information,
you have not asked any questions, you have not asked if there is money back
if not satisfied, and more important: YOU HAVE NOT THOUGHT OF THE HUNDREDS
DOLLARS you spend on your child health...." (reformatting mine) [22]
3.2.2.3 Defamation of Michael Lim
Michael Lim posted to alt.support.asthma a large compilation of a number of
Joe's posts including threats, insults, advertisements, and other documents
available from sources including the DejaNews archive and this FAQ [37].
Michael posted this compilation more than once to the group. Joe's
responses, also posted to alt.support.asthma, included a threat of legal
action to Michael for posting to Usenet information which was already
available on the Web, an accusation that Michael was "misleading" others
[38], and had this to say about Michael's character: "This is an idiot
person, this michael Lin." [39]
3.2.3 Examples of insults
Joe issued a number of ad hominem attacks and insults on the newsgroup. Many
of them have backfired on him by causing the people he insults to become
even less receptive to his message of his "process."
3.2.3.1 Insults in Yiddish
Joe posted to alt.support.asthma an attack on the maintainer of this FAQ,
containing a rather simplistic play on my name in Yiddish [52]:
Please ignore this negative lire kendrick shmendrick.
thanks
joseph
Unfortunately, Joe did not realize that I understand Yiddish. My response
indicated to Joe that I figured he was a Yiddish and Hebrew speaker, was
Jewish as I am, and included a Yiddish obscenity back at him [53].
Joe's response was described by another user as an attempt to play "the race
card" on Usenet [54]. After listing a number of reasons why he had not yet
carried out his threat of legal action, he wrote [55]:
And, if you are jewish, I am sure that many jewish people are ashamed that
you even
claim you are jewish. Shame on you.
Joseph
3.2.3.2 Accusations of racism
Joe made a post to Usenet which appeared to suggest that racism was a
motivation in the criticism he has received for his on-line conduct [57]:
three stooges:
p.s. would it have been strange of COLIN SPELLED KOOLIN? If so, I would
have written about three initials of three people: KKK: Kendrick, King,
and the third one
3.2.3.3 More insults
Joe is especially fond of namecalling. Here are some of his favorite words:
"Stupid" [49]
"Schmendrick" (Yiddish for "jerk") [52]
"Idiot" [39]
"SOB" (abbreviation for "Son of a b----") [58]
"Stupid guy" [57]
3.3 Why did people ask critical questions in the first place?
Because Joe invited them to [27].
3.4 What Internet recognition has Joe earned?
He has been nominated for Usenet Kook of the Month [11].
3.5 What does Joe think of this FAQ?
Joe wrote an e-mail to the maintainer of this FAQ containing namecalling and
vague threats [35]:
Well, you are looking for trouble. Your lies will not bring you
anywhere, and the matter is under consideration. Defamation is your
problem, and that is big, very big. See you.
Joseph
It is therefore safe to assume that Joe is not pleased that there is
documentation available on his history of spamming, and will resort to
intimidation to have it removed. (It ain't gonna work, Joe.)
3.6 What does Joe think of himself?
The following quotation sums up Joe's self-image [49]:
Only a stupid man like you can spend tremendous amount of time to
attach someone noble like me who tried to help the american people.
3.7 Has Joe abused Internet service?
By his own admission, yes [36]. He has admitted abusing "throwaway" trial
accounts to spam Usenet.
4.0 The Other Pat Carroll
The "other" Pat Carroll, a registered nurse who posts frequently to Usenet,
is absolutely not related to the Joe Tsiyoni/Pat Carroll who spams
advertisements to alt.support.asthma. When asked if she was connected to the
spammer, Pat gave this response [34]:
I have never been in the asthma support group. I am a RN RRT.
Great! Now I have a spammer with the same name ;-( Thanks for the warning.
Patricia Carroll RN,C, CEN, RRT, MS
ed...@nai.net
5.0 What is the best way to handle Joe?
There are several ways to answer that question.
When Joe, as "pat Carroll," made an appearance in alt.support.asthma, a
number of veteran readers recognized him despite over a year's absence and
laughed him off the newsgroup after two posts [32]. He returned to the
newsgroup some weeks later, this time promoting a Web site which contained
his "process," but so far has yet to receive anything other than suggestions
that his welcome was completely worn out and his credence irretrievably lost
[43]. This description was borne out by Joseph's April 1999 return [60] and
welcome [62].
If you are interested in new or alternative treatments for asthma and its
symptoms, discuss them with your doctor as you would any treatment or
method. If you think that Joe's or any other new or alternative treatment
might benefit you, you should consult your doctor about it, especially if
you have aspirin-sensitive asthma or are using another treatment regimen.
Joe's posts themselves are amusing to read but often contain nothing but
threats or pitches. If your newsreader supports it, you may want to consider
killfiling him.
Most importantly, you can complain to Joe's ISP about abuse of Usenet
through posting commercial solicitations to a non-commercial, non-moderated
group such as alt.support.asthma.
5.1 Should I contact Joe directly?
Despite his invitation to do so, you may not want to e-mail Joe with
critical questions or concerns about his process since past communications
of a critical nature have been answered with threats, abuse and invective.
5.2 What are other users doing about it?
The general consensus of regular alt.support.asthma contributors is that the
best way to handle Joe is to killfile his postings, since he seems to thrive
on the negative attention.
That has not, however, kept some users from indicating to Joe that he is an
unwelcome laughing stock, as in the following [44]:
You may consider adding this to your FAQ....
Seen at a Post Office:
WANTED -- DEAD or ALIVE
JOE TOV aka: The Imbecile
/\
/^^\
/^^^^\
/^^^^^^\
/^^^^^^^^\
/ ô ô \
| ¿ |
|___ ¤ ___|
| |
Armed and Extremely Dangerous
Approach with Caution
Joe's posts have also been subjected to the Mystery Science Theater 3000
riffing treatment [56]:
I call all of you to assess the
information, to ask questions,
Crow: Why is the sky blue?
Tom Servo: What's Vietnam?
Joel: What's a spammer/troll? Oh wait, we already have an example of that
5.3 How can I report his abuse of Usenet?
Forward any abusive e-mail to the postmaster or abuse reporting mailbox of
whatever site or domain he's posting from.
In addition, you can post copies of Joe's material, or set follow-ups, to
newsgroups like news.admin.net-abuse.usenet to bring it to the attention of
veteran spamfighters.
6.0 More References
Michael J. Lim maintains a chronological archive of Joe's Usenet activity at
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/6249/.
In addition, the DejaNews Usenet archive service catalogs almost every post
made to alt.support.asthma. It is a searchable database; queries there can
produce entire in-context threads and author profiles. DejaNews was a major
source of reference materials for this document.
Colin Campbell maintains a site devoted to debunking quack medical
approaches to asthma at http://home.pacbell.net/colin/.
Chris King maintains a site with asthma resources and a section devoted to
exposing spammers and other wastes of Internet bandwidth at
http://www.csking.demon.co.uk/; Joseph is featured prominently.
7.0 Credits
Thanks to Chris King for information and for hosting a mirror of this page.
Thanks to Paul Boven for information.
Thanks to Colin Campbell for research and hosting a mirror of this page.
Thanks to Grant Getz for research on anti-leukotriene therapy.
Thanks to the real Pat Carroll for denouncing the spammer and responding to
my request for information.
Mystery Science Theater 3000, its characters and situations are copyrights
of Best Brains, Inc.
DejaNews provided invaluable reference.
Thanks to the authors of the First Amendment for giving us the freedom to
tell the truth in the face of foolishness.
Thanks to Woodinat for taking Joseph into the not-too-distant future.
Thanks to Michael J. Lim for his chronological compilation of Joe's posts
and for hosting a mirror of this page.
And thanks to PENMART10 for the "artistry."
7.1 Legalese
Opinions expressed in this FAQ are solely those of its author, except for
those opinions expressed in the quotations throughout which are the
responsibility of their original authors. You may copy this FAQ freely as
long as it remains intact and unchanged with this notice and all footnotes
attached.
Original portions Copyright ©1996, 1998, 1999 by David R. Kendrick. All
Rights Reserved under U.S. and international law.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Footnotes
1. See Message-ID <4sp7ic$1k...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> of July 20, 1996
and Message-ID <4r82rm$3m...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>of July 1, 1996 for
examples.
2. See Message-ID <4sp855$u...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> of July 20,1996.
The mailing address for information requests is given.
3. See Message-ID <4rqhk3$p...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> of July 8,1996. Joe
states that there is no cure for asthma, but that his son is free of
symptoms.
4. See Message-ID <-55b4bk$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> of November 11, 1996
for an example of these cancellations.
5. One of his solicitations for a gambling book was contained in Message-ID
<55sinp$n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> of November 7, 1996. It was posted to
alt.gambling.
6. Message-ID <55upa2.0$2...@ngsoap01.news.aol.com> of November 8, 1996.
7. Message-ID <slrn57u3u...@wit387304.student.utwente.nl> of November
5, 1996.
8. Message-ID <55gsi9$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> of November 2, 1996
contains part of the "press release" and a solicitation for sale of the
book.
9. Message-ID <4tllaa$17...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> of July 30, 1996:
10. Message-ID <19961107221...@ladder01.news.aol.com> ofNovember 7,
1996, from iwe...@aol.com.
11. Nominated by Deterior8 on 1996/07/20 in Message-ID
<4srl86$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>. Nomination seconded by Richard R.
Schrader on 1996/07/21 in Message-ID <4ssce5$g...@tofu.alt.net>.
12. Message-ID <4tk5j6$r...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> of July 30, 1996.
13. Message-ID <55nint$6...@news.fsu.edu>, referencing Message-ID
<55gv3v$k...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> of November 5, 1996.
14. Message-ID < 19961106071...@ladder01.news.aol.com> of November
6, 1996
15. Message-ID <4tk5j6$r...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> of July 30,
1996,referencing <4sp68n$j...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>,
<4t08ks$28...@mule0.mindspring.com>.
16. Message-ID <328903...@asu.edu> of November 12, 1996.
17. Message-ID <19961109034...@ladder01.news.aol.com> of November
9, 1996.
18. Message-ID <4tk7v8$1k...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com > of July 30, 1996,
referencing Message-IDs <0000313b...@msn.com>,
<4sp6qq$o...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>, and <4spkkk$k...@tofu.alt.net>.
19. Message-ID <4r9g56$2o...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> of July 1, 1996.
20. Message-ID <55b44h$e...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> of October 31, 1996.
21. Message-ID <3287AF...@internetwis.com> of November 11, 1996,
referencing <55rdh4$h...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> and
<19961107184...@ladder01.news.aol.com>.
22. Message-ID <19961113235...@ladder01.news.aol.com> of November
13, 1996, referencing <3287AF...@internetwis.com>.
23. An example of these cancellations is Message-ID
<Can_4u2rlo$r...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> of August 4, 1996.
24. Message-ID <19961115222...@ladder01.news.aol.com> of November
15, 1996.
25. Follow-up Message-ID <01bbd3f5$911e7040$c1ad79a8@davidk> of November 16,
1996 did not receive response.
26. Message-ID <19961113074...@ladder01.news.aol.com> of November
13, 1996; contained a threat of lawsuit for "slander and other illegal
issues."
27. Message-ID <55k76c$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> of November 4, 1996.
28. Refer to the FAQs for news.admin.net-abuse.misc for a full definition of
spam and spamming.
29. Refer to the Phoenix, Arizona Better Business Bureau's site on the World
Wide Web at http://www.phoenix.bbb.org/. A search of their database for
"shairon" on July 10, 1998 produced no hits. A search of a predecessor site,
http://www.azcentral.com/depts/work/bbb.html, for "Shairon," "Sharon,"
"SIT", "SITC," and "Tsiyoni" produced no hits on November 19, 1996. This URL
is no longer valid.
30. Message-ID <4tlvef$p...@tofu.alt.net> of July 30, 1996.
31. Mail message text:
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:58:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem
To:
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
The original message was received at Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:58:56 -0500 (EST)
from gatekeeper.******.com [***.***.***.***]Your mail is being returned due
to
one or more non-delivery conditions listed below:
(Refer to the " ----- Transcript of session follows ----- " section)
1: SMTP 550 .... User Unknown
Your recipient no longer exists on AOL.
2: SMTP 550 .... Mailbox Full
Your recipient's mailbox is full.
3: SMTP 550 .... is not accepting mail from this sender
Your recipient has blocked mail from you.
4: SMTP 550 ... Delivery not authorized
Your site has been blocked from sending mail to AOL.
-AOL Postmaster
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to air03.mail.aol.com.:>>>
RCPT To:
<<< 550 Mailbox not found550 ... User unknown
----- Original message follows -----
Return-Path:
Received: from gatekeeper.******.com (gatekeeper.******.com
[***.***.***.***])
by relay02a.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id JAA27380 for ;
Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:58:56 -0500 (EST)
Received: from [***.***.***.***] by gatekeeper.******.com for
id JAA28040; Thu Jan 29 09:58:54 1998
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.1998012...@pop.atl.mindspring.com>
X-Sender: dke...@pop.atl.mindspring.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:01:30 -0800
Subject: Bounce test
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: joe...@aol.com
From: David Kendrick
This is a test of the validity of the recipient account.
32. Joe was told where to get off by Colin Campbell in Message-ID
<34C44872...@pacbell.net> on January 19, 1998.
33. Message-ID <01bd255c$91762560$4715a5ce@default> of January 19, 1998.
Posted to Usenet with a UUencoded ASCII attachment.
34. E-mail sent on January 29 and 30, 1998. Included in this document with
permission of author. Quote is from Message-ID
<01BD2CC0...@Southington-Usr1-41.nai.net> of January 29, 1998.
35. E-mail sent on March 5, 1998. Addressed to d...@kendrick.org. Message-ID
<34FE6216...@primenet.com>
36. Message-ID <34FE6956...@primenet.com> of March 5, 1998. Posted
with subject "Re:statement from joseph" from: "P. Carroll" to
alt.support.asthma
37. Message-ID <351F76EE...@pixi.com> of March 30, 1998. Posted with
subject "Re: NEW ASTHMA PROCESS NOW AVAILABLE" to alt.support.asthma.
38. Message-ID <352801B3...@primenet.com> of April 4, 1998. Posted to
alt.support.asthma.
39. Message-ID <352803E4...@primenet.com> of April 5, 1998. Posted to
alt.support.asthma.
40. From Joe's Web site, http://www.inneroutpost.com/asthma/product.htm,
April 8, 1998.
41. Message-ID <3527FCDE...@primenet.com> of April 5, 1998, posted to
alt.support.asthma, is an example of an inappropriately placed
advertisement.
42. Searches performed using the phone number directory at
http://www.four11.com for "Joseph Tsiyoni" and "Pat Carroll," both of Tempe,
Arizona, returned hits showing different telephone numbers but the same
street address listed for Joe's business on the business' Web site at
http://www.inneroutpost.com/asthma on April 10, 1998.
43. An example of this immediate derision can be found in Message-ID
<35285012...@pacbell.net>, posted to alt.support.asthma on April 5,
1998.
44. "Wanted" poster by penm...@aol.com, posted to alt.support.asthma April
7, 1998 with Message-ID <199804071420...@ladder03.news.aol.com>.
45. Message-ID <34FF884A...@primenet.com> of March 5, 1998, posted to
alt.support.asthma.
46. Message-ID <19961115222...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, posted to
alt.support.asthma on November 15, 1996.
47. Message-ID <352A0171...@primenet.com> of April 7, 1998.
48. Two messages, each 70Kb, were sent to d...@kendrick.org by
jose...@primenet.com on May 29, 1998.
49. Message-ID <356DDA95...@primenet.com> of May 28, 1998, e-mailed to
d...@kendrick.org by jose...@primenet.com.
50. Message-ID <356C8B5B...@primenet.com> of May 27, 1998, e-mailed to
d...@kendrick.org by jose...@primenet.com.
51. Two messages sent to pcar...@primenet.com on May 23, 1998 with "Bounce
test" in the subject line received replies totalling 213Kb in size,
Message-IDs <356712BA...@primenet.com> and
<3567131D...@primenet.com> containing the asthma "press release"
52. Message=ID <359AC6C4...@primenet.com>, posted to
alt.support.asthma on July 1, 1998.
53. Message-ID <6nekp5$ddm$1...@camel19.mindspring.com>, posted to
alt.support.asthma on July 1, 1998.
54. Message-ID <ug4b6WAy...@csking.demon.co.uk> posted to
alt.support.asthma on July 3, 1998.
55. Message-ID <359C4D00...@primenet.com>, posted to
alt.support.asthma on July 2, 1998.
56. A number of Joe's posts have been MSTied in alt.support.asthma; the
sample is from Message-ID <199807100118...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
of July 10, 1998.
57. Message-ID <35A53338...@primenet.com>, posted to
alt.support.asthma on July 9, 1998.
58. Message-ID <359AC7E4...@primenet.com>, posted to
alt.support.asthma on July 1, 1998.
59. Message-ID <35A72107...@primenet.com>, posted to
alt.support.asthma on July 11, 1998.
60. Message-ID <37261633...@primenet.com>, referencing message-id
<37233F80...@columbus.rr.com>, posted to alt.support.asthma on April
27, 1999.
61. Message-ID <37261596...@primenet.com>, referencing message-id
<371cf1c2...@usenet.umr.edu>, posted to alt.support.asthma April 27,
1999.
62. Another example of instant derision was Message-ID
<3726ebb9....@news.eznet.net>, posted to alt.support.asthma on April
28, 1999.
63. Message-ID <372612EC...@primenet.com> crossposted to a number of
groups
(relcom.penpals,alt.support.divorce,alt.support,shyness,alt.woman,alt.love,s
oc.penpals) on April 27, 1999.
64. Thorax 1988 Feb;43(2):93-7
End of Joseph Tsiyoni/Pat Carroll FAQ