Advair side effects
glry2hm
This is my first post as I just found this site. I am asthmatic and
have been for most of my life. I have been on Advair 550/50 for awhile
now, along with Theophyllin. I recently went off Singulair.
I am weaning myself off tha Advair and have noticed that I am soooo
tired. Has anyone that has weaned themselves off this noticed this?
I also started having joint pain in my hands and arms a couple of years
ago. No doctor, not even a naturopath, could tell me why. After
reading some of the posts here, I'm wondering if it is the Advair. The
pain comes and goes, but seems to be more prevelant since starting the
weaning process.
Thanks in advance for any help!!
NorthShoreCEO
"glry2hm" <dkwa...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1148385886.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
You're probably not getting enough oxygen, which can cause
fatigue.
Why are you weaning yourself off Advair, and are you doing this
under the supervision of someone with a medical degree?
Jason Johnson
"glry2hm" <dkwa...@netzero.net> wrote:
Hello,
You should not stop taking Advair until you discuss this situation with
your doctor. Please request a blood and urine test and post any results
that are outside the nornal limits. Also, post the urine pH level. it's
difficult to help you unless we know more details. I am not a doctor but
did spend time working in a hospital. Do you have any other health
problems that you did not mention in your post?
Jason
NorthShoreCEO
"Jason Johnson" <ja...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-23050...@66-52-22-49.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
I would think the original poster's doctor would be capable of
ordering appropriate tests, and then interpretting the results.
Jason Johnson
<NorthS...@aol.com> wrote:
It's possible for patients to request blood tests. Of course, the original
poster should listen to the doctor as the doctor intreprets the results.
The original poster can also ask other people to give their opinions related
to the results. In medical newsgroups, people post the results of their
blood tests on a regular basis and ask for advice related to results that are
outside of normal. I am sure you have seen such posts.
Jason
NorthShoreCEO
I don't think it's wise for a patient, who doesn't appear to be
working with their doctor, to suddenly go in and request blood
tests. The poster should be working with their doctor and the
doctor will recommend what tests are needed.
Yes, I've seen such posts, but the problem with posting results
is then you have every idiot on the internet interpretting those
results and making recommendations, when none of them are fit to.
The best advice to give the poster is to work with their doctor,
who will recommend appropriate tests and go over the results and
what they mean.
aroberts
"Jason Johnson" <ja...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-23050...@66-52-22-49.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
The first sentence of your post made sense. Then you suggested requesting
and posting the results of a urine pH test. How about letting the doctor
decide what testing is appropriate? Why would he want to post his results
here? So you (or others) could make wild guesses about the significance?
This constant preoccupation with urine borders on urolagnia.
You spent time "working in a hospital"...did you stay at a Holiday Inn last
night as well?
miles
> The poster should be working with their doctor and the
> doctor will recommend what tests are needed.
I firmly believe the best way to improve ones health is to realize you
are the only one responsible for your own health, not anyone else
including your Dr. To me my Dr's are one of many resources I use in
solving health issues. Far too many people simply do whatever the Dr.
says without question. I do ask my Dr. a ton of questions and based on
what I find with him as well as other sources I often do request various
tests. I treat myself. My Dr. is only a resource to help me to do that.
NorthShoreCEO
"miles" <no...@nopers.com> wrote in message
news:9XPcg.20291$XV5.13488@fed1read10...
I'm a firm believer that everyone should read as much as they can
about their health and be their own advocate while working with
their doctor. If I didn't believe this, I wouldn't have been
asthma and asthma med free for three years.
However, the original poster is doing something that isn't safe,
apparently. You don't just cut your asthma meds on your own and
then wonder why you're fatigued. This is not the time to tell a
person, "You're responsible for your own health."
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
>NorthShoreCEO wrote:
>
>> The poster should be working with their doctor and the
>> doctor will recommend what tests are needed.
>
>I firmly believe the best way to improve ones health is to realize you
>are the only one responsible for your own health, not anyone else
>including your Dr.
He said to work *with* their doctor.
> To me my Dr's are one of many resources I use in
>solving health issues. Far too many people simply do whatever the Dr.
>says without question.
And other people think that they know better than the doctor and fail
to comply with a doctor's recommendation even though it is best for
them.
> I do ask my Dr. a ton of questions and based on
>what I find with him as well as other sources I often do request various
>tests. I treat myself. My Dr. is only a resource to help me to do that.
So how do you prescribe medications or order lab tests for yourself?
You cannot treat yourself unless you have an MD degree or you choose
to not take medication or get blood tests. A person who acts as his
own doctor has a fool for a patient.
Just because you ask for a medication or blood test does not mean that
the doctor will agree.
You may not like it but you are dependent on the doctor for a number
of things.
RC
00doc
"Jason Johnson" <ja...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-23050...@66-52-22-49.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
>
> You should not stop taking Advair until you discuss this situation with
> your doctor.
OK.
> Please request a blood and urine test and post any results
> that are outside the nornal limits.
Just ask for a test? When the doc asks what test you have in mind I'll bet
you are one of those people who says, "I want to be tested for everything."
> Also, post the urine pH level.
Why? If it is 5 what should she do? 6? 7? 8?
--
00doc
miles
>
> He said to work *with* their doctor.
He also said let the Dr. decide which tests are needed. I believe I am
the final say on my treatment. Not my Dr. Define *work* with? I
listen to my Dr.'s advice and expertise and then I decide the course of
action to take.
> And other people think that they know better than the doctor and fail
> to comply with a doctor's recommendation even though it is best for
> them.
How does one know what ever the Dr. says is whats best for them?
> You cannot treat yourself unless you have an MD degree or you choose
> to not take medication or get blood tests. A person who acts as his
> own doctor has a fool for a patient.
Bull. A person who simply goes to a Dr. and blindly does whatever the
Dr. says is a fool. People MUST take responsibility for themselves.
Take the time to understand their ailment and treatment. The Dr. is one
resource to do that. Different Dr.s will have different solutions to a
particular issue. Some solutions are wrong, some are right. It's the
patient who must find out what will work for them. The only area where
you and I agree is that a person should not make blind decisions.
> You may not like it but you are dependent on the doctor for a number
> of things.
True to an extent. But the Dr. is not and should not be the end voice
in my healthcare. I am.
00doc
> rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> He said to work *with* their doctor.
>
> He also said let the Dr. decide which tests are needed. I believe I am
> the final say on my treatment. Not my Dr.
That is only partially true. Basically you each have the power of veto over
each other. He can't make you take a test or med you don't want to take but
you can't get a med or test without his consent. Seems to me that to make
any progress you need to work together.
> Define *work* with? I listen to my Dr.'s advice and expertise and then I
> decide the course of action to take.
Only to a point. It is more accurate to say that you decide what action not
to take.
>> And other people think that they know better than the doctor and fail
>> to comply with a doctor's recommendation even though it is best for
>> them.
>
> How does one know what ever the Dr. says is whats best for them?
How does one know it is not?
>> You cannot treat yourself unless you have an MD degree or you choose
>> to not take medication or get blood tests. A person who acts as his
>> own doctor has a fool for a patient.
>
> Bull. A person who simply goes to a Dr. and blindly does whatever the Dr.
> says is a fool. People MUST take responsibility for themselves. Take the
> time to understand their ailment and treatment. The Dr. is one resource
> to do that. Different Dr.s will have different solutions to a particular
> issue.
All of that is true.
> Some solutions are wrong, some are right.
Sure, sometimes people get prescribed something that is just not right but
most often the options are different degrees of right.
> It's the patient who must find out what will work for them. The only area
> where you and I agree is that a person should not make blind decisions.
>
>> You may not like it but you are dependent on the doctor for a number
>> of things.
>
> True to an extent. But the Dr. is not and should not be the end voice in
> my healthcare. I am.
That attitude will get you nowhere fast. Sometimes there are several
reasonable options for treatment and in those cases the patient should have
a large say in the matter. Often there are not all that many reasonable
options and the correct course is fairly clear. In those situations people
taking the attitude you espouse end up hurting themselves.
--
00doc
miles
> Only to a point. It is more accurate to say that you decide what action not
> to take.
True to a point. If I decide the best course of action for me to take
is different than that of my Dr.'s I have the choice to go find another
Dr.
>> How does one know what ever the Dr. says is whats best for them?
>
> How does one know it is not?
My point exactly. It is the patient who must decide. They are the only
ones to benefit or suffer as a result of a course of action. The Dr.
won't. A persons health is their own responsibility, not the Dr.'s.
>> True to an extent. But the Dr. is not and should not be the end voice in
>> my healthcare. I am.
>
> That attitude will get you nowhere fast. Sometimes there are several
> reasonable options for treatment and in those cases the patient should have
> a large say in the matter. Often there are not all that many reasonable
> options and the correct course is fairly clear. In those situations people
> taking the attitude you espouse end up hurting themselves.
What attitude is that? I never said to simply disagree with a Dr.
without reason. What I am saying is that the Dr. is a resource to use
to help treat yourself. The responsibility lies with yourself in your
treatment and not the Dr. I use my Dr.s knowledge so that I can better
understand how to control my health issues.
Case in point. I came down with some sorta nasty bug thats going
around. After several weeks I finally went to the Dr. He told me I
just have to let it run its course. After 2 months of coughing I went
back. He gave me some cough syrup and was disinterested in why I had
been coughing for so long. Now if I did what some here say I would be
taking cough syrup and still coughing badly. Instead I went to another
Dr. who at first prescribed an antibiotic. When I told him that
particular antibiotic had never proved effective with me he changed it
to what I said has worked before. A few days later I'm done coughing.
Again, it is me that is responsible for my own health. Not my Dr.
Otherwise I would still be coughing or worse. My Dr. is a resource and
yes, one that can write prescriptions.
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
>> You may not like it but you are dependent on the doctor for a number
>> of things.
>
>True to an extent. But the Dr. is not and should not be the end voice
>in my healthcare. I am.
This is true. You can keep going to different doctors before you
finally find one who does what you want him/her to do even though it
may not be the best course of action.
Since an MD has had four years of medical school plus three or more
years residency it is likely that the doctor would be best to
determine what tests and what treatment should be implemented and not
you.
Can doctors make mistakes? Of course. That is why you get a second
opinion if you question the judgement of the first doctor.
RC
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
>
>> Only to a point. It is more accurate to say that you decide what action not
>> to take.
>
>True to a point. If I decide the best course of action for me to take
>is different than that of my Dr.'s I have the choice to go find another
>Dr.
Why is it that I think that you have gone to more than your fair share
of doctors as a result on not agreeing with their treatment plan?
I don't know if this is true but you are coming across as someone who
thinks he knows more than doctors about health care decisions and gets
into confrontations with doctors. Sounds like you have a control
problem.
RC
miles
> This is true. You can keep going to different doctors before you
> finally find one who does what you want him/her to do even though it
> may not be the best course of action.
So just what is the best course of action? Whatever Dr. #1 says taken
at face value?
> Since an MD has had four years of medical school plus three or more
> years residency it is likely that the doctor would be best to
> determine what tests and what treatment should be implemented and not
> you.
Would that be Dr. #1's treatment recommendations or Dr. #2's who is
completely different? Both have the same education. It is me that must
decide.
> Can doctors make mistakes? Of course. That is why you get a second
> opinion if you question the judgement of the first doctor.
Uhoh...2nd opinion? You just said the Dr. knows more than me so who am
I to question Dr. #1??? BINGO!! We have a winner. I question
everything when it comes to my health. I get 2nd and 3rd opinions if I
have to. It is me that takes it all in and decides the best course of
action for me. The Dr's are a valuable tool and resource for knowledge
and advice. But it is my health at stake, not theirs. I have to decide
whats best for me. The Dr.s help me to do that.
miles
> Why is it that I think that you have gone to more than your fair share
> of doctors as a result on not agreeing with their treatment plan?
Fair share? What the heck is that? Is there a limit and then its game
over?
> I don't know if this is true but you are coming across as someone who
> thinks he knows more than doctors about health care decisions and gets
> into confrontations with doctors. Sounds like you have a control
> problem.
ROFL, seems to me that its you who doesn't like taking responsibility
for your own issues. If I go to Dr.#1 for 4 years and follow his
treatment and advice with no results I then go looking elsewhere. When
Dr. #2 wants me to follow the exact same failed course of action then
yes, I go on to Dr. #3 who may have some other course to try and takes
the time to listen to me and find out what may work rather than go down
the same failed path. Ya, when it comes to my health I do take control
over it. It's my health after all. If I listened to you I would still
be on Dr. #1's failed plan indefinably or more likely its all just
psychological anyways.
NorthShoreCEO
> 00doc wrote:
> Case in point. I came down with some sorta nasty bug thats
> going around. After several weeks I finally went to the Dr.
> He told me I just have to let it run its course. After 2
> months of coughing I went back. He gave me some cough syrup
> and was disinterested in why I had been coughing for so long.
> Now if I did what some here say I would be taking cough syrup
> and still coughing badly. Instead I went to another Dr. who at
> first prescribed an antibiotic.
When you went to another doctor, you were being your own
advocate.
When I told him that
> particular antibiotic had never proved effective with me he
> changed it to what I said has worked before. A few days later
> I'm done coughing. Again, it is me that is responsible for my
> own health. Not my Dr. Otherwise I would still be coughing or
> worse. My Dr. is a resource and yes, one that can write
> prescriptions.
>
This is "working with" your doctor.
NorthShoreCEO
> rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
>
> ROFL, seems to me that its you who doesn't like taking
> responsibility for your own issues. If I go to Dr.#1 for 4
> years and follow his treatment and advice with no results I
> then go looking elsewhere.
Again, you are being your own advocate.
When
> Dr. #2 wants me to follow the exact same failed course of
> action then yes, I go on to Dr. #3 who may have some other
> course to try and takes the time to listen to me and find out
> what may work rather than go down the same failed path.
Being your own advocate and working with your doctor.
This is NOT the same as going into a doctor, TELLING him what
tests you want, and posting the results on the internet for every
weirdo to dissect and pontificate about.
NorthShoreCEO
"00doc" <00...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nvOdnYZhsMM...@comcast.com...
>
> "Jason Johnson" <ja...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:jason-23050...@66-52-22-49.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
>
>
> Why? If it is 5 what should she do? 6? 7? 8?
>
>
> --
> 00doc
>
Yeah, this is where I have a MAJOR problem with this. Too many
people who hop online want to play doctor.
Jason Johnson
Needless to say, I agree with you.
Jason Johnson
<NorthS...@aol.com> wrote:
It's possible for people to get bad advice when they request
information in medical related newsgroups--however, it's
also possible to get great advice when they request the answers
to their questions in newsgroup posts. As you may know, doctors
are so busy--they don't spend a lot of time with patients. As
a direct result, patients need a resource to find out the answers
to their questions. Newsgroups are a great place to find those
answers.
Jason
NorthShoreCEO
>
> It's possible for people to get bad advice when they request
> information in medical related newsgroups--however, it's
> also possible to get great advice when they request the answers
> to their questions in newsgroup posts. As you may know, doctors
> are so busy--they don't spend a lot of time with patients. As
> a direct result, patients need a resource to find out the
> answers
> to their questions. Newsgroups are a great place to find those
> answers.
> Jason
I just shake my head over the fact that people make choices for
their health that they wouldn't make for the maintenance and
repair of their car.
Jason Johnson
<00...@comcast.net> wrote:
doc,
You made some good points. I did not mention the type of blood and urine
tests since I felt that the doctor would know which was the best type of
blood and urine tests would be appropriate. If the person posted their
urine pH--it would help anyone in this newsgroup (including yourself) to
determine if the poster has a acid-base problems. As you know, acid-base
problems are the cause of various diseases. Several months ago, I read an
article which indicated that some researchers believe that osteoporosis is
a acid-base problem. Of couse, I realize that all cases of bone and muscle
problems are NOT the result of an acid-base problem. I seem to recall that
the original poster mentioned muscle or joint pains. It would have been
improper to have guessed that it was an acid-base problem without
considering other causes. In this case, the problem was more likely caused
when the poster stopped taking Advair and perhaps other medications that
were not mentioned in the post.
Jason
Jason Johnson
<a-rob...@comcast.net> wrote:
You must not be a regular subscriber to medical newsgroups. People post
their PSA levels and Cholesterol levels on a regular basis asking for
advice on the meaning of their test results. If you type "medical tests"
or "lab tests" into the google search engine--you will find many sites
that explain the meaning of test results. Believe it or not, doctors pay a
lot of attention to urine test results. Acid-base problems are the cause
of various diseases and the urine pH level is just one of the ways to
determine if patients do or do not have acid-base problems. I pay as much
attention to blood test results as I pay to urine test results.
Jason
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
>If the person posted their
>urine pH--it would help anyone in this newsgroup (including yourself) to
>determine if the poster has a acid-base problems. As you know, acid-base
>problems are the cause of various diseases.
Acid-base problems are the *cause* of what diseases in particular? Be
specific and post the proof that acid-base problems *caused* the
disease.
How is the urine pH going to help you diagnose acid-base problems?
You do realize that there is a very wide range of urine pHs that is
considered within the normal range.
Urine pH is a very crude indicator of acid-base balance in the body.
One can have a somewhat low or high urine pH and have no acid-base
problems in the body since the urine pH largely reflects the body's
attempt to maintain blood pH within an narrow range.
RC
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
>Believe it or not, doctors pay a
>lot of attention to urine test results. Acid-base problems are the cause
>of various diseases and the urine pH level is just one of the ways to
>determine if patients do or do not have acid-base problems.
I suggest that when people see their internists that they ask them if
urine pH is a useful way to diagnose acid-base problems. I predict
that over 99% will say no. Doctors rarely even look at urine pH unless
they know that a person has some kind of metabolic disorder like
metabolic acidosis and want to get some crude idea of acid-base
balance. But even then they would need to get blood pH for any kind of
accurate measure.
RC
Jason Johnson
rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
RC,
A blood pH test is superior to urine pH test in detecting acid-base
problems. You are correct, urine-pH is a crude indicator of the acid-base
balance of the body. However, it's still an indicator. I advise you to
read pages 901 to 902 in this book for an excellent discussion of the
urine pH test:
"Laboratory Test Handbook" by David S. Jacobs, MD and two other medical
doctors.
The following Conditions are associated with Acid and Alkaline Urine:
Metabolic acidosis and alkalosis
Respiratory acidosis and alkalosis
Emphysema
Various types of kidney problems
Renal Tubular Acidosis
Diabetes Mellitus
I copied the above conditions from the list on page 902.
Yes--I know that there is a very wide range of urine pHs that is
considered within normal limits. I don't advise people that do not have
health problems to waste their time conducting urine pH tests. However,
people that have acid-base problems or any of the conditions listed above
should test their urine pH levels on a regular basis. If anyone that reads
this post has an acid-base balance problem, they should read:
"The Acid-Alkaline Diet" by Christopher Vasey, N.D.
or visit this site:
http://www.naturalhealthschool.com/acid-alkaline.html
00doc
don't understand it. The first two are just restating the problem and
are not diseases in an of themselves. Kidney diseases can surely lead
to problems but has nothing to do with anything being discussed here
and the vast majority would be obvious on routine blood testing.
Diabetes is only an acid base issue if in DKA. Emphysema is only an
issue if it is decompensated and the person is breathing very rapidly
or has very low ventilation.
None of this has anything to do with the books or other nonsense you
have been espousing. If you understood any of it you would know that
you are comparing apples and oranges.
Lastly, the urine pH will tell you very little about any of it. It
tells you how much acid is in the urine. It does not tell you if there
is an abnormal amount of acid being produced that is being effectvely
cleared, if it is not being effectely cleared, or even if the person is
acidemic. The problem (rarely) could be that the kidneys are handling
things innappropriately.
--
00doc
NorthShoreCEO
Every time I read this, I have to laugh again. You "treat"
yourself and your doctor is "only a resource" to help you do
that? So you go into your doctors office, tell him your symptoms
and what your diagnosis is, tell him what tests you'd like him to
write an order for, and off you go. Then, you call your doctor
for the results from the lab or pathologist or what have you, and
you interpret them and diagnose yourself and then....what? Go
get herbs or homeopathic remedies to solve your health issues?
Medical newsgroups are great sources of information when people
share their experiences, give you the heads up on new medication
or treatment they've heard about, or post studies that may
pertain to the disease. Yes, sometimes people post results of
tests, and people may then say, "You know, that's out of the
normal range, you might want to ask your doctor about it". But I
always wonder - if people can get online to ask what the test
results mean - why the heck didn't they just ask their doctor?
Oh don't give me this nonsense that doctors are too busy to go
over results. That's their job and it's what they're paid to do.
Jason Johnson
<NorthS...@aol.com> wrote:
Perhaps some doctors have the extra time needed to spend about one
hour with each patient. However, most GP doctors only spend about
15 minutes (or less) with most patients answering questions. If
patients think of other questions after they have seen their doctors,
newsgroups are a resource that can be used to find answers to their
questions. Special websites like Medline Plus and webmd.com are also
great resources. Do you think that think that a person's doctor is
the only resource for finding answers to their questions? I have learned
much more about kidney disease from a book that was written by a
doctor that is a kidney specialist than I could ever learn from my
GP doctor.
Jason
NorthShoreCEO
Do you think that think that a person's doctor is
> the only resource for finding answers to their questions? I
> have learned
> much more about kidney disease from a book that was written by
> a
> doctor that is a kidney specialist than I could ever learn from
> my
> GP doctor.
> Jason
I think the doctor is usually the best resource with regard to
treatment and test results. You can pick up a lot of information
on newsgroups, but once people start saying, "post your results
and we'll help you", it becomes a dangerous game. There are far
too many people online who have their own personal pet theory
that they blame every ill on. Like ph levels, for example.
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
Thanx for the excellent response and saving me the time and effort in
doing the same. But it is likely to fall upon the deaf ears of those
who seem to delusionally believe in this acid-base theory of disease
and go on weird diets in an effort to control their acid-base balance
in their bodies. Trying to convince these pundits that the urine pH is
mostly useless except in rare and extreme cases is an exercise in
futility.
I think that believing that one could use diet to control what appears
to be a disease or incipient disease state comforts those who are
worried about getting ill and need reassurance that they could do
something to prevent the illness even when there really is no
objective evidence that diet does much of anything for acid-base
balance in the body.
RC
Jason Johnson
<NorthS...@aol.com> wrote:
I agree that a person's doctor is the best resource with regard
to treatment and test results. However, that does NOT mean there
are no other resources. Books, medical websites such as Medline
Plus and newsgroups are other resources. Many medical insurance
programs don't allow second opinions unless the GP refers the
patient. I once had a doctor that refuse to refer me to a specialist.
That means that newsgroups are the source for lots of other
opinions. That is especially true when real doctors are members
of various medical newsgroups. I have read the posts of some of
those wonderful doctors and have learned a lot from them. I should
note that I first learned about urine pH levels from a doctor
(kidney specialist) that wrote a book related to kidney disease.
I have NEVER stated that people that do not have health problems
should waste their time measuring their urine pH levels. I don't
know the reason why several people that have implied or stated
that I have done that. However, I do encourage everyone that has
acid-base balance problems to read the book that I have mentioned
in several posts.
Jason
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
> However, I do encourage everyone that has
>acid-base balance problems to read the book that I have mentioned
>in several posts.
Do you have an acid-base problem Jason?
If so what is causing the problem?
Have you discussed using urine pH with an MD to see if it is useful?
RC
Jason Johnson
rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
RC,
I developed some kidney problems as a result of taking statins.
However, I have great doctor and have done lots of research such as reading
an excellent book entitled, "Coping With Kidney Disease" by Doctor
Mackenzie Walser--he's a kidney specialist and a professor at Johns
Hopkins University School of Medicine. I do not have kidney disease
but know that if I did not eat the proper foods that I would develop
kidney disease. I use pH urine test strips and Multistix Reagent Urine
Test strips to check 10 other items in relation to urine such as
Blood, Protein and Leukocytes. I know that it's possible to control
my pH level by eating the proper foods since I do it every week. I
recently read an article related to Osteoporosis that was written
by a medical doctor. The article states that one of the causes of
Osteoporosis is "Prolonged lack of adequate calcium and protein
in the diet." It's possible to prevent many diseases by eating a
proper diet. That's why I am shocked when I see posts written by
people that appear to know lots about medical issues state that
it's impossible to control pH by diet. I know they are wrong.
Jason
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
> I do not have kidney disease
>but know that if I did not eat the proper foods that I would develop
>kidney disease.
What kind of kidney disease do you think you would get if you did not
eat the proper foods? Please be specific about the disease you think
you would get and what makes you think that you would get it.
If it comforts you to think that eating certain foods will prevent
you from getting kidney disease I say more power to you.
Unless it is a very bad diet from a nutritional standpoint it is
unlikely to harm you so just reducing your anxiety about getting
kidney disease might be a good thing.
RC
miles
> Every time I read this, I have to laugh again. You "treat"
> yourself and your doctor is "only a resource" to help you do
> that?
Oh geez. You just can't comprehend the concept of ones health being
their own responsibility. Well if you go to the Dr. and sit and do
whatever he/she says then you're a fool. But hey, if that works for ya
so be it.
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
You seem to think that there are only two possibilities.
The first is that you got to the doctor and do whatever he says
without question.
The second is that you treat your own medical conditions and use a
doctor as a "resource".
There is a middle ground. That middle ground is that the doctor treats
you and that you go along with the treatment if what he says makes
sense to you.
No one is suggesting that you do whatever any doctor tells you.
No one is suggesting that you not ask questions of the doctor to get
information about your condition and the treatment for it.
The only suggestion is that you work cooperatively with your doctor in
reaching agreement about treatment. If you don't like your doctor's
recommendation then you can seek another opinion/doctor.
RC
miles
> You seem to think that there are only two possibilities.
Not so. You seem to not understand the concept of taking responsibility
for your own health. Others do.
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
I understand that you think I don't understand the concept of taking
responsibility for your own health. I do understand it quite well and
nothing I said suggests otherwise. That is why you had to snip my
words.
Let me say it again a little differently.
I think it important that each person takes responsibility for their
own health. Toward that end they should eat a balanced diet, get
plenty of exercise, wear their seat belts and avoid unnecessary risks
including excessive alcohol and recreational drugs.
People should regularly see their doctor and work cooperatively with
that doctor to help maintain their health in times of health and to
work with the doctor in times of sickness by asking appropriate
questions and going along with the treatment plan if you feel it makes
sense. If you don't agree with the doctor then certainly you should
seek another doctor or second opinion.
But one should not act as their own doctor.
Hope that clears up my opinion about this matter.
RC
miles
> I understand that you think I don't understand the concept of taking
> responsibility for your own health. I do understand it quite well and
> nothing I said suggests otherwise.
Possibly but you look at health care from a different point of view than
I. When I'm sick it is me that decides to see a Dr. It is me that
decides which Dr. to see. It is me who decides whether I agree with the
Dr.s course of action. It is me who decides if a 2nd or 3rd opinion is
needed. It is me who who holds the final say over my own health. It is
NOT the Dr. The Dr. is a valuable resource but it is me who must decide
whats best for me.
> But one should not act as their own doctor.
Never said otherwise. I've only said that a Dr's opinion is just that.
An opinion. It is up to me to decide if its a valid one or not. If I
need more information to make that decision I will look where I need to,
medical journals (which I review with Dr's), 2nd or 3rd opinions etc.
Currently I see 3 different Dr's. One primary and two specialists.
Often they do not agree on a treatment. It is my responsibility to sort
out the answers and make decisions.
I suppose to you its just a matter of semantics. For me its a
fundamental way of thinking. I am the end solution to my health. A
particular Dr. is not.
Jason Johnson
Miles,
We are in complete agreement. I see my own doctor and a urologist. I
wanted to see a kidney specialist but my doctor told me that he will only
refer me if my kidney problems become more serious. Those doctors are
resources and I am total control of my health and see no reason to place
complete control in the hands of any doctor. I see nothing wrong with
reading books to learn as much as possible about various diseases.
Jason
Jason Johnson
rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
RC,
You would have to read "Coping With Kidney Disease" by Doctor Mackenzie
Walser in order to learn the answers to your question. In the book, he
explains in detail all of the things on urine tests and various types of
blood tests--esp. "hepatic function" and "Renal Panel" that indicate
kidney problems. He also explains in detail the symptoms of various kidney
deseases. I had many of those symptoms for over a year before my doctor
gave my a physical exam and told me that the blood and urine tests
indicated that I was having kidney problems. I started conducting research
on kidney diseases and learned the treatment program that I should follow
to keep from developing ESRD (End Stage Renal Disease).
Dr. Walser mentions a special diet plan for kidney patients in his book.
He states that kidney patients should not have a high protein diet. Read
the book if you don't believe me or conduct research on diet plans for
kidney patients.
Jason
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
>In article <vtp97296c7nlboqhd...@4ax.com>,
>rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
>
> On Wed, 24 May 2006 15:29:42 -0700, ja...@nospam.com (Jason Johnson)
> wrote:
>
> > I do not have kidney disease
> >but know that if I did not eat the proper foods that I would develop
> >kidney disease.
>
> What kind of kidney disease do you think you would get if you did not
> eat the proper foods? Please be specific about the disease you think
> you would get and what makes you think that you would get it.
>
> If it comforts you to think that eating certain foods will prevent
> you from getting kidney disease I say more power to you.
>
> Unless it is a very bad diet from a nutritional standpoint it is
> unlikely to harm you so just reducing your anxiety about getting
> kidney disease might be a good thing.
>
> RC
>
>RC,
>You would have to read "Coping With Kidney Disease" by Doctor Mackenzie
>Walser in order to learn the answers to your question.
How would reading that book answer my question to you of what specific
kidney disease do you think you will get if you don't follow the
dietary protocol? You say that you don't have kidney disease and yet
you think that if you don't follow the protocol for people with kidney
disease that you will develop kidney disease? Is that right? If you
don't have kidney disease why on earth do you think you would get it
if you don't follow the protocol?
> I had many of those symptoms for over a year before my doctor
>gave my a physical exam and told me that the blood and urine tests
>indicated that I was having kidney problems.
What specific kidney problem do you have? Did your doctor give you a
diagnosis?
> I started conducting research
>on kidney diseases and learned the treatment program that I should follow
>to keep from developing ESRD (End Stage Renal Disease).
So you think that you will end up with ESRD if you don't follow the
protocol but your doctor does not think that you need a referral to a
kidney specialist since your kidney problem is not that serious. Is
that right?
>Dr. Walser mentions a special diet plan for kidney patients in his book.
>He states that kidney patients should not have a high protein diet.
That is true. If your kidneys are not performing adequately you should
not eat a lot of protein.
> Read
>the book if you don't believe me or conduct research on diet plans for
>kidney patients.
Once again I ask you what is your diagnosis with respect to your
kidneys. Do you have acute glomerulonephritis, chronic
glomerulonephritis, acute renal failure, chronic renal failure,
pre-renal failure? What exactly is the nature of your kidney disorder?
And don't tell me to read the book since the book does not have the
answer to my question unless he wrote the book including you as a case
study.
RC
>Jason
miles
> Miles,
> We are in complete agreement. I see my own doctor and a urologist. I
> wanted to see a kidney specialist but my doctor told me that he will only
> refer me if my kidney problems become more serious. Those doctors are
> resources and I am total control of my health and see no reason to place
> complete control in the hands of any doctor. I see nothing wrong with
> reading books to learn as much as possible about various diseases.
Yep. People need to learn as much as they can about their health. So
many people take a lack of interest attitude. Instead they see one Dr.
and just do what he/she says without understanding any of it.
aroberts
You make many wrong assumptions; this is one of them.
People post
> their PSA levels and Cholesterol levels on a regular basis asking for
> advice on the meaning of their test results.
It's not the best way to diagnose health problems.
If you type "medical tests"
> or "lab tests" into the google search engine--you will find many sites
> that explain the meaning of test results. Believe it or not, doctors pay a
> lot of attention to urine test results. Acid-base problems are the cause
> of various diseases and the urine pH level is just one of the ways to
> determine if patients do or do not have acid-base problems. I pay as much
> attention to blood test results as I pay to urine test results.
> Jason
Urine pH test results, as others have repeatedly and patiently explained,
are not signifcant in most of the diseases at hand.
NorthShoreCEO
So the two of you are doing what I, and most others here, are
already doing. Big whoop. This wasn't the point. The point is
the poster was weaning him or herself off of an asthma
medication, and I said they should only be doing that under the
supervision of a doctor. To suggest otherwise is being reckless
and irresponsible.
Jason, you think disease can be forecasted by testing the ph of
one's urine. I don't know anything about that, so I won't
comment one way or the other about the validity of such a thing.
I will say, however, that you don't need to push your theory on
people who post here. This is an asthma board, not a kidney
board.
I'm probably one of the most open minded people you'll find with
regard to healthcare, so enough with your, "You do everything
your doctor tells you to do" nonsense. I don't have asthma
anymore, and if I was closed minded, I would still have it. .
Why don't you do yourself a favor and look at some asthma
research, since you're interested in posting in an asthma
newsgroup?
Oh, and by the way - I find it ridiculous that you ridicule
people for "blindly believing their doctor" - a person we have a
relationship with and know personally - but you expect people to
believe what you and others post on the internet. (insert
emoticon doing major eye-rolling here).
NorthShoreCEO
>> "Jason Johnson" <ja...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:jason-23050...@66-52-22-49.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
>> > In article
>> > <1148385886.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "glry2hm" <dkwa...@netzero.net> wrote:
>>
>> You must not be a regular subscriber to medical newsgroups.
Didn't you just start posting here? What do you know about
ARoberts that you're making this stupid statement?
It says more about you than it does about him.
Jason Johnson
You are 100% correct. I have a friend that has 100% trust in her doctors.
She is now taking about 7 different medications. Her problems (including
asthma) are getting worse each month. She has not done any research
related to any or her medical problems. We all know those sorts of people.
I guess doctors love to have those sorts of people as their patients. She
is obese.
Jason
Jason Johnson
rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
As a result of a routine yearly physical exam, my doctor told me that my
creatinine level was above normal. More detailed blood and urine tests
were done and the doctors determined that I had "Metabolic Acidosis".
Since I had kidney disease when I was an infant, the doctor concluded
that I had to make some major changes in my diet to reduce the high
acid levels. That's when I conducted research on Metabolic Acidosis
which lead to even more research related to kidney disease. When I
read Dr. Walser's kidney book, it became obvious that I had (and still
have) many of the top ten symptoms of kidney disease.
See these sites:
00doc
should waste their time measuring their urine pH levels. I don't
know the reason why several people that have implied or stated
that I have done that."
It is not that people say you are giving advice to healthy people. It
is just that nobody buys your qualifier about limiting it to people
with health issues.
For example, if a person has a health problems, say asthma for
instance, what will the urine pH tell you? Specifically what will it
suggest regarding the state of their asthma, its treatment, or
alternative diagnoses - assuming routine blood tests have already been
done?
--
00doc
00doc
is that it is largely irrelevant.
--
00doc
00doc
his bicarb it might be reasonable for him to watch his urine pH and
serum bicarb and keep them normal with diet or supplements.
That doesn't mean that he will go into ESRD if he doesn't follow the
diet (it is hard to say for sure but probably not the case) or that any
of this has anything to do with anything other than a person with
certain forms of RTA.
--
00doc
00doc
I've read several articles on patient compliance (or lack thereof) that
advocate not viewing it as a failure of the patient to follow
instructions, but rather, failure of the doctor to convince the patient
it is something they should do and help them accomplish it.
--
00doc
00doc
doctors.
She is now taking about 7 different medications. Her problems
(including
asthma) are getting worse each month. She has not done any research
related to any or her medical problems. We all know those sorts of
people.
I guess doctors love to have those sorts of people as their patients.
She
is obese. "
No, quite the opposite.
--
00doc
Jason Johnson
<00...@comcast.net> wrote:
Doc,
You made a good point. If a person has asthma, it's unlikely that
they also have a acid-base balance problem. Therefore, if I advised
such a person to test their urine pH levels on a regular basis--it would
be bad advice. This would also be true related to all medical problems
that are NOT related to a acid-base balance problem.
However, some people that request advice in medical newsgroups do not
always know the exact reasons why they are sick. If such a person mentions
symptoms that appear to be related to an acid-base problem, I see nothing
wrong with advising them to have blood tests and urine tests so their
doctors can figure out the exact causes of their medical problems.
Jason
Jason Johnson
"00doc" <00...@comcast.net> wrote:
Doc,
That is because you are a great doctor. Some doctors want to get as many
patients as possible in and out of their offices as quickly as possible.
They don't want to spend any extra time answering questions. I once had
such a doctor. She appeared to me to hate it when I asked her a question
since she had to waste her time answering it. I now have a great doctor
that does not mind taking extra time to answer my questions.
Jason
Jason Johnson
"00doc" <00...@comcast.net> wrote:
It is not that it is impossible to manipulate urine pH through diet. It
is that it is largely irrelevant.
Doc,
I disagree. "The urine pH crude indicator of the acid-base balance of the body."
I copied the above statement from a book "Laboratory Test Handbook" that
was written by three medical doctors. For example, if my urine pH was 5 or
below 24 hours a day for three months in a row--that would be an
indication that my blood pH was also lower (more acid) than normal. On the
other hand, if my urine pH was 7 or above 24 hours a day for three months
in a row--that would be an indication that my blood pH was also normal.
Even if urine pH is a crude indacator--it's still an indicator. I know
that blood pH is a far superior test than a urine pH test--however--since
I don't work in a medical lab--I can't do blood pH tests on a daily basis.
Do you believe that people that suffer from Metabolic Acidosis should or
should not eat "low acid" foods such as vegetables? I learned the hard way
that high acid foods such as coffee and soft drinks caused me to vomit
about once a week. My stomach was "upset" on many days before I changed my
diet. Since I now eat low acid foods, my stomach is never upset and I have
only vomited one time in the past 8 months.
Jason
Jason Johnson
<00...@comcast.net> wrote:
That's probably true--however, I don't know for sure--since my doctor has
to follow the rules of my insurance company. He can NOT refer me to a
kidney specialist to get a biophy (on my kidneys) unless he has test
results to
justify his decision. He did recently refer me to a urologist since a
recent urine test ("urinalysis W/MICRO") indicated that I had "Urine RBC's
RARE A"
which the doctor told me that it meant that I had blood in my urine. He
referred me to a urologist. I wish that he had referred me to a kidney
specialist but as you know--I can't tell him what to do. I realize that he
has to follow the rules of the insurance company. Can a urologist do a
kidney biopsy?
I should note that my creatinine level is now 1.1--mainly because I no
longer eat meat. If the creatinine level has been above normal--he
probably would have referred me to a kidney specialist instead of a
urologist.
Jason
00doc
or
should not eat "low acid" foods such as vegetables? I learned the hard
way
that high acid foods such as coffee and soft drinks caused me to vomit
about once a week. My stomach was "upset" on many days before I changed
my
diet. Since I now eat low acid foods, my stomach is never upset and I
have
only vomited one time in the past 8 months.
Jason "
Many people with certain specific problems should follow specific
dietary restrictions. That does not mean that any of it applies to
people who don;t have those problems.
--
00doc
00doc
kidney to the bladder, bladder, and prostate. They stop at the kidney
so it woul dbe unusual for one to do kidney biopsies. Blood can come
from anywhere along there so it is worth it for him to take a look. of
course, it could be comming from your kidneys as well.
I obviously don't know the "ins and outs" of your insurance but it
would be unusual for him not to be able to refer you if there are signs
of renal disease (metabolic acidosis would be one - blood in the urine
is another). Kidney biopsies are not done much in the US but there are
other things that a nephrologist could do like accurately diagnose the
type of acidosis.
--
00doc
Jason Johnson
<00...@comcast.net> wrote:
Based upon what I read in the book that was written by a nephrologist, you
are 100% correct related to the other things that a nephrologist could do
to diagnose the type of acidosis or kidney disease. For example, the
nephrologist are experts in determining the Glomerular Filtration Rate
(GFR). They also have special urine tests for potassium and calcium. I
just hope that urologist can determine the source of the blood in the
urine. It's only a trace amount of blood and there was no protein found in
the urine which was great news.
Jason
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
>Do you believe that people that suffer from Metabolic Acidosis should or
>should not eat "low acid" foods such as vegetables?
Do you now have metabolic acidosis? If not then why follow this diet?
Obviously if you are in a metabolic acidotic state you should avoid
anything that could make you more acidotic. But treating the
underlying cause of the acidosis makes the most sense.
> I learned the hard way
>that high acid foods such as coffee and soft drinks caused me to vomit
>about once a week. My stomach was "upset" on many days before I changed my
>diet.
What does an upset stomach from eating certain foods have to do with
metabolic acidosis secondary to kidney disease?
> Since I now eat low acid foods, my stomach is never upset and I have
>only vomited one time in the past 8 months.
Well it sounds like you are much happier eating low acid foods. You
probably should continue to do so. But whether this is going to
prevent you from getting kidney disease in the future is moot.
RC
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
> They also have special urine tests for potassium and calcium. I
>just hope that urologist can determine the source of the blood in the
>urine.
Did you have blood in your urine on repeated urinalyses or just a
single one. If a single on then it should be repeated.
Are you very physically active such as running, bicycling, etc?
You can get rare blood in your urine from trauma secondary to
excessive physical activity.
> It's only a trace amount of blood and there was no protein found in
>the urine which was great news.
A urologist can do a cystoscopy where he look up your urethra to see
if there is a visible source for the blood in your urine.
RC
miles
> The point is
> the poster was weaning him or herself off of an asthma
> medication, and I said they should only be doing that under the
> supervision of a doctor. To suggest otherwise is being reckless
> and irresponsible.
In all cases? What if a drug is doing nothing, causing problems, or the
patient doesn't like the side effects? What if the Dr. says stay on it
anyways? Should they simply because the Dr. says so? Might the patient
look elsewhere to help them make a decision about their health? Seems
to me you just go by what the Dr. says and his/her voice is final. Do
you make any decisions yourself pertaining to your health care or is it
100% whatever your Dr. says goes?
NorthShoreCEO
"miles" <no...@nopers.com> wrote in message
news:WNsdg.20812$XV5.12476@fed1read10...
I'm REALLY getting the impression that you don't like to
understand what someone is saying, you'd rather argue.
Jason Johnson
rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
RC,
You may or may not be correct. I may have "Acute Tubular Necrosis" since
my symptoms match up with the symptoms of that kidney disease. I asked my
doctor to refer me to a kidney specialist with hopes of getting a kidney
biopsy but my doctor refuses to refer me to a kidney specialist. My
insurance company will not allow my doctor to refer me to a specialist
unless there is a "medical reason" for doing so. An example would be high
creatinine levels. According to the information at this website, a special
diet should be followed by people that have abnormal kidney function such
as blood in the urine--which is one of my symptoms:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002442h.htm
Some of Dr. Walser's patients have delayed dialysis for over 6 years by
following a special diet.
Jason Johnson
rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
RC,
Thanks for your post. I was not aware that a urologist could do that sort
of thing--that is really good news.
Yes--I ride an exercise bike 4 miles per day--6 days per week--at the
local health fitness center.
Results of two separate urine tests in two different labs:
10/3/05 Red Blood Cells (/HPF) 2 reference range 0 to 4
5/11/05 Urine RBC's (W/MICRO) RARE A reference range NONE
My doctor told me that there should be NO red blood cells in the urine
which is the reason he referred me to a urologist.
It's my guess that he would have referred me to a kidney specialist if the
blood creatinine level (and other items on the Renal Panel) were outside
of the expected range. My creatinine level was 1.1--probably due to the
fact that I no longer eat meat. My doctor needs a medical reason to refer
me to a kidney specialist.
Jason
miles
> I'm REALLY getting the impression that you don't like to
> understand what someone is saying, you'd rather argue.
Funny, I see the same thing in you!
00doc
> RC,
> You may or may not be correct. I may have "Acute Tubular Necrosis" since
> my symptoms match up with the symptoms of that kidney disease. I asked my
> doctor to refer me to a kidney specialist with hopes of getting a kidney
> biopsy but my doctor refuses to refer me to a kidney specialist. My
> insurance company will not allow my doctor to refer me to a specialist
> unless there is a "medical reason" for doing so. An example would be high
> creatinine levels. According to the information at this website, a special
> diet should be followed by people that have abnormal kidney function such
> as blood in the urine--which is one of my symptoms:
ATN is acute. Unless something recently happened so I doubt you have that.
You are confusing me, though. Do you have a metabolic acidosis or not? If
so, why is this not considered a medical condition warranting a referral to
a nephrologist?
Usually renal biopsies are done for proteinuria or unexpected renal failure,
not renal tubular acidosis.
--
00doc
00doc
>
>> The point is the poster was weaning him or herself off of an asthma
>> medication, and I said they should only be doing that under the
>> supervision of a doctor. To suggest otherwise is being reckless and
>> irresponsible.
>
> In all cases?
Pretty much, yes. I have a hard time thinking of when the advise to just
wean yourself off, given between strangers on Usenet, might be prudent.
> What if a drug is doing nothing, causing problems, or the patient doesn't
> like the side effects?
Then it probably should be weaned off.
> What if the Dr. says stay on it anyways?
Then ask why. If the answer doesn't make sense go for a second opinion.
> Should they simply because the Dr. says so?
No, of course not. (Straw man)
> Might the patient look elsewhere to help them make a decision about their
> health?
Of course. The looking elsewhere should help to determine if the doc's
advise makes sense and if a second opinion should be obtained.
> Seems to me you just go by what the Dr. says and his/her voice is final.
> Do you make any decisions yourself pertaining to your health care or is it
> 100% whatever your Dr. says goes?
Boy do you not know her very well.
--
00doc
Jason Johnson
<00...@comcast.net> wrote:
Perhaps Renal Tubular Acidosis should have been the term I used. However,
the report that I downloaded from the Medline Plus website was entitled,
"Acute Tubular Necrosis" so that was the term I used. You are probably
correct related to renal biopsies not being done for patients that have
renal tubular acidosis since my doctor must not believe that it's a
serious problem since he will not refer me to a kidney specialist.
However, he did refer me to a urologist which I appreciated. I hope that
he can figure out the reason for the blood in the urine. I should note
that "blood in the urine" is one of the symptoms of Renal Tubular
Acidosis. I should note that I just re-read the report that I mentioned
above and noticed that these three terms are listed as alternative names
for Acute Tubular Necrosis:
Necrosis--Renal Tubular; ATN; Necrosis-Acute Tubular.
I have the symptoms of Metabolic Acidosis and Renal Tubular Acidosis. I
believe that a biopsy is the only way to determine for sure whether or not
I have Renal Tubular Acidosis so as long as a biopy is not done--I can
only make guesses.
Jason
miles
>> In all cases?
>
> Pretty much, yes. I have a hard time thinking of when the advise to just
> wean yourself off, given between strangers on Usenet, might be prudent.
I wouldn't take the advice of strangers on usenet at face value. At
best something someone said might cause me to research the issue more
but thats about it.
>> What if the Dr. says stay on it anyways?
>
> Then ask why. If the answer doesn't make sense go for a second opinion.
I've found too many Dr's uninterested in spending the time it takes to
explain their views. They write a prescription and run out in the
middle of me asking a question. As someone else said the current state
of health care in the USA is crank 'em in, crank 'em out. Once in a
rare while I've found a few great Dr's that do spend the time but it's
not the norm.
> Of course. The looking elsewhere should help to determine if the doc's
> advise makes sense and if a second opinion should be obtained.
That was my primary point. I believe in taking responsibility for my
own health. The Dr. becomes a very valuable resource but responsibility
for my health is mine and mine alone. I want to understand my health
issues.
> Boy do you not know her very well.
Usenet is not a good place to get to know someone!!
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
>RC,
>Thanks for your post. I was not aware that a urologist could do that sort
>of thing--that is really good news.
If you think cystoscopy is good news you are one optimistic guy:-)
>Yes--I ride an exercise bike 4 miles per day--6 days per week--at the
>local health fitness center.
I would stop all exercise for a week and then repeat the urinalysis.
It might come up clean and further tests unnecessary. Within a week
all blood secondary to exercise should have cleared out completely.
>Results of two separate urine tests in two different labs:
>10/3/05 Red Blood Cells (/HPF) 2 reference range 0 to 4
>5/11/05 Urine RBC's (W/MICRO) RARE A reference range NONE
>My doctor told me that there should be NO red blood cells in the urine
>which is the reason he referred me to a urologist.
It is true that any red blood cells in urine for a man can be
significant although rare blood cells may not be cause for concern.
Best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out.
It is funny that you had two tests with two different reference
ranges. Did you use a different lab for the two tests?
Good luck.
RC
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
> RC,
>You may or may not be correct. I may have "Acute Tubular Necrosis" since
>my symptoms match up with the symptoms of that kidney disease.
If you had ATN then your creatinine level would be very high. You said
it was normal.
Do you generally spend a lot of time worrying about your health?
> I asked my
>doctor to refer me to a kidney specialist with hopes of getting a kidney
>biopsy but my doctor refuses to refer me to a kidney specialist.
His evaluation obviously did not indicate suspicion of kidney disease.
Of course you could see another internist and get a second opinion.
>Some of Dr. Walser's patients have delayed dialysis for over 6 years by
>following a special diet.
Yes, but these were probably patients who had severe kidney disease
and were close to needing dialysis. It does not sound like you have
kidney disease so you are worrying unnecessarily.
RC
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
>> Then ask why. If the answer doesn't make sense go for a second opinion.
>
>I've found too many Dr's uninterested in spending the time it takes to
>explain their views.
I might be mistaken but I have the feeling that if the doctor spent as
much time with you as you would like he would not be able to see many
patients at all.
RC
NorthShoreCEO
> used. However,
> the report that I downloaded from the Medline Plus website was
> entitled,
> "Acute Tubular Necrosis" so that was the term I used.
When you're telling Doc what you have, are you telling him based
on a diagnosis given to you by your doctor? Or based on what
you've determined based on what you've read?
NorthShoreCEO
I've explained myself and you continue to pick things apart,
going off track. It's clear that for you, people either see it
you're way, or they're sheep, blindly following their doctor. I
suggest you do some homework here by reading past posts of mine
before you make incorrect assessments..
NorthShoreCEO
"00doc" <00...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:npGdndVld9X...@comcast.com...
Thanks, Doc, these are the same responses I would have given, but
I have two teenaged boys, as you know, and get really tired of
debating and repeating myself.
NorthShoreCEO
At this point, I'm DEFINITELY seeing real bias and an anti-doctor
agenda. Tell ya what. When you or someone you love is having a
heart attack, get online and find out what you should do.
miles
> I might be mistaken but I have the feeling that if the doctor spent as
> much time with you as you would like he would not be able to see many
> patients at all.
Thats exactly right. He sees way too many patients in a day to give
most of them proper care in my opinion. Barely 5 minutes each. If you
are lucky maybe 10. Thats not true of all Dr's. I see one that will
spend whatever time it takes. If it takes too long in his office then
he'll call later to discuss issues. That is VERY VERY rare to find a
Dr. that will do that.
Bob
Hang around awhile miles and you will. You'll get to know someone to
the degree you interact with them and read their posts.
miles
> I've explained myself and you continue to pick things apart,
> going off track. It's clear that for you, people either see it
> you're way, or they're sheep, blindly following their doctor. I
> suggest you do some homework here by reading past posts of mine
> before you make incorrect assessments..
I read what you have posted to me. Your views are different than mine
and you too pick apart whatever I say. Your assessments of me are
incorrect and you continue to wish to argue about it. Geez, your views
are different ok? Do what works for you.
miles
> At this point, I'm DEFINITELY seeing real bias and an anti-doctor
> agenda. Tell ya what. When you or someone you love is having a
> heart attack, get online and find out what you should do.
Oh geez. You just continue this rhetoric. My only comment that started
you off on this sort of BS was simply my stating that I take
responsibility for my health and a Dr. is one of many valuable resources
to use to do that. You disagreed with me. So be it. Now you spin what
I've said to mean Dr's aren't worth anything which I never ever once
said. Quit with the spin already!!
miles
> Hang around awhile miles and you will. You'll get to know someone to
> the degree you interact with them and read their posts.
When what I've said from the start is spun then I see no reason to do
so. It works both ways, not just one. Now I'm told I'm anti-Dr. Is
that getting to know me or is it spin from failing to do so?
00doc
I
believe that a biopsy is the only way to determine for sure whether or
not
I have Renal Tubular Acidosis so as long as a biopy is not done--I can
only make guesses. "
<DOH!>
--
00doc
00doc
Stop pushing for a biospy. It is not indicated.
--
00doc
00doc
by
>following a special diet.
Yes, but these were probably patients who had severe kidney disease
and were close to needing dialysis. It does not sound like you have
kidney disease so you are worrying unnecessarily."
I predict that his special diet allows Jason to delay dialysis for a
good 60 years or so.
--
00doc
00doc
lot of time. I'm sure I have spent 45 mintues in a 15 minute slot and
had the patient walk out unhappy that I didn't answer all of their
questions.
Unwilling to spend extra time answering questions and unreasonable
expectations of access may just be in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure
both happen.
00doc
Jason Johnson
rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
RC,
No, I had a insurance related mini-physical exam (blood pressure test,
blood test and urine test). The nurse sent the blood and urine to a
different lab than the local hospital lab. My doctor sends me to the local
hospital lab to get my blood and urine tests. That's the reason two
different labs were mentioned in my post. I gave my doctor a copy of the
blood and urine tests from the other lab. That's why he had similar tests
done at the local hospital lab.
You made this statement in your post:
>>If you think cystoscopy is good news you are one optimistic guy:-)
I am not looking forward to having the procedure done but do believe it's
good news that the procedure may determine the reason that I have blood in
my urine.
For the past year, I have been wondering and guessing as to the exact
reason for my symptoms. If I was rich, I would use my own money to pay for
a kidney biopsy to rule in or out kidney disease. If I do have kidney
disease, I would like to know which one that I have. I don't blame my
doctor--instead I blame the medical insurance company for having rules
that prohibit doctors from sending people like me for a biopsy even if
they are not 100% sure that I have kidney disease.
Jason
Jason Johnson
rchrdc...@NOTyahoo.com wrote:
RC,
I hope that you are right. However, the symptoms are a concern for me and
I can't help but wonder the exact reasons for the symptoms. A good example
is edema. I know that it's unrelated to medication but there is a cause
for the edema--I don't know the source (or cause) of the edema?
Do you see my point?
Jason
Jason Johnson
<00...@comcast.net> wrote:
I would be satisfied if I make it to the age of 64 which is the same age
that my sister died. I am now 55 years old.
Jason Johnson
<NorthS...@aol.com> wrote:
My doctor does not base his diagnosis on my opinions or guesses--
he bases his diagosis on medical tests. I usually don't even waste
time discussing my guesses with him.
Jaosn
Jason Johnson
"00doc" <00...@comcast.net> wrote:
IOW - you've made this whole thing up.
Stop pushing for a biospy. It is not indicated.
Thanks doc. I will follow your advice.
NorthShoreCEO
>>
>
> My doctor does not base his diagnosis on my opinions or
> guesses--
> he bases his diagosis on medical tests. I usually don't even
> waste
> time discussing my guesses with him.
> Jaosn
You know, if your doctor insists on diagnosing you based on
factual evidence, rather than your opinions or guesses, you
should probably not waste your time going to see him anymore.
NorthShoreCEO
> guesses--
> he bases his diagosis on medical tests. I usually don't even
> waste
> time discussing my guesses with him.
> Jaosn
In all seriousness, if you're doing research on your health
issues, why would you NOT discuss them with your doctor? I do.
I usually learn more that way because my doctor will provide
additional information I don't have, which makes sense. If it
doesn't make sense, I ask for more information or I do more
research based on what he's told me. If I get a pat on the head
or a rushed answer just to appease me, I find another doctor.
People complain about their doctors and say they're in charge of
their healthcare, but when I see posts like yours, I just shake
my head. If you were really taking control of your healthcare,
you would discuss things with your doctor so that he knows what
your concerns are and you learn more about your medical issues.
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
>If I was rich, I would use my own money to pay for
>a kidney biopsy to rule in or out kidney disease.
Good thing that you are not rich. Kidney biopsies are not completely
benign procedures. They should only be done if there is a reasonable
suspicion of kidney disease. It sounds like only you think that kidney
disease is a likely possibility. Your own doctor does not even think
it warranted to send you to a kidney specialist.
RC
rchrdc...@notyahoo.com
wrote:
>In article <1148651834.9...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
You are going to follow the advice of some anonymous internet poster?
Now that makes sense.
Note I am not saying that he is not giving good advice. He probably
is. I am suggesting that you are quick to believe some anonymous
poster instead of your own doctor who also does not think a kidney
biopsy is warranted. Maybe it is because this "doc" is spending more
time with you.
RC