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nanotech@trollretrovirusau

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Mar 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/27/00

dho...@iol.ie (David Hobbs)
tom_n...@my-deja.com (Tom Newton)

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: I am trying a new homeophatic med. for asthma..!
Date: 26 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:50:12 -0500, "CBI"
> <c_ish...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> Then you must be *very* concerned that only 10-20% of
> >> conventional
> >medicine
> >> is estimated to be backed by placebo controlled studies.
> >>
> >
> >People keep making this claim but I'm really not sure what it is
> >based upon. Perhaps you could give us some examples of unproven
> >therapies used by medicine. Remember that even if it is used for
> >"off label'' uses it still has to pass FDA approval to be
> >released. Also, "off label" just means not approved by the FDA for
> >that purpose. It does not mean that there are no studies. It will
> >also have to be a substantial list to suggest that the 10-20%
> >figure may be accurate.
>
> The figure is not accurate. It is based on a comment made something
> like 20 years ago - and disproven when people actually started
> checking.
>
> But, it is still taken as gospel by people who don't check the
> accuracy of what they say.

I think you're the one who needs to check the accuracy of what you
say.

The figure is not based on "a comment". It is based on a report by
the Office
of Technology Assessment (a branch of the US Congress) entitled
"Assessing
the Efficacy and Safety of Medical Technologies".

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Health in China
Date: 25 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> >The FDA approval would be an excellent
> >suggestion if they would be a little more
> >efficient in putting their approval on new drug applications.
>
> And then they would be criticized for 'rushing' the approval
> process and allowing questionable drugs to reach the market.

Well, it hasn't stopped them in the past.

For example, the FDA rushed through one of the most dangerous and
toxic drugs
ever approved--AZT, the AIDS drug. It was approved even though there
was no
proof that it was safe or effective.

Many scientists claim that the drug actually made people sicker and
accelerated death.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Is Modern Medicine Causing Asthma?
Date: 16 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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In article <00cc81c0...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com>,
Jo Firey <jofirey...@my-deja.com.invalid> wrote:

> When I was a child in the 1940's our family doctor did not
> believe in immunizations. I had Measles and Chicken Pox.
> Probably had a mild case Mumps since I never caught it when I
> was exposed when I was older. And by the time I was eight years
> old I had full blown Asthma.

> The idea that immunizations cause Asthma is too absurd.

No one said that if you're not immunized that you won't get asthma
and that
if you are immunized that you will get it. Rather, childhood
immunization may
significantly increase the chances of developing asthma.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Terrible Responsibility
Date: 16 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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In article <8ao9vl$2eo$1...@sun-cc204.lboro.ac.uk>,
(Visit 45) wrote:
> >It's a terrible responsibility - but somebody has to be the
> >Americans.
>
> OK, what's the responsiblity and what's terrible about it?
>

Americans are responsible for having a truly overinflated sense of
their own
importance on the planet we call Earth, and it really is terrible.
Might this
be it?

Viva America!

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Is Modern Medicine Causing Asthma?
Date: 16 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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In article <38D060DB...@flash.net>,
ik...@flash.net wrote:
> OK OK OK, the reason there are more cases of asthma as a result of
> the modern practice of vaccinating children against "harmless"
> childhood diseases (such as whooping cough, diphtheria, polio,
> tetanus, pertussis, hemophilus influenze, hepetitis B) is that
> before vaccines, children who would have had asthma died early from
> the nasty diseases that we didn't know how to prevent or treat, so
> naturally the incidence would be lower. Tom probably needs words of
> one syllable so, if there were 10 children (before vaccines) and
> four would have gotten asthma and all ten got six or seven nasty
> childhood diseases, then five died, of which three were the ones
> who would have had asthma later on, ergo, only 5 living children of
> whom only 1 has asthma, which is an incidence of only 10% compared
> to an incidence of 20% of the kids had all been vaccinated and
> lived.

You are assuming that vaccines were responsible for the decline in
death
rates from infectious diseases.

The fact is that 90% of the decline occurred BEFORE vaccination even
commenced.

The numbers you are using to try to illustrate your point are totally
ludicrous. 40% get asthma and 50% die of childhood diseases! It's a
wonder
the human race didn't become extinct long ago.

I don't think you have a firm grip on reality.

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Americans are responsible for having a truly overinflated sense of
their own
importance on the planet we call Earth, and it really is terrible.
Might this
be it?

Viva America!

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In article <00cc81c0...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com>,
Jo Firey <jofirey...@my-deja.com.invalid> wrote:

> The idea that immunizations cause Asthma is too absurd.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Is Modern Medicine Causing Asthma?
Date: 14 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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I
"CBI" <c_ish...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> > > <tom_n...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > Measles does kill this many, mostly in third world countries, and
> > the
> reason
> > is because of severe malnutrition. A weakened immune system from
> malnutrition
> > is not able to fight off what would otherwise be a very mild,
> > harmless disease. The way to wipe out deaths from measles and
> > other infectious diseases is improved nutrition and sanitation,
> > not vaccines.
>
> This is a half truth. True the malnurished are more vulnerable but
> it also strikes healthy children. The reason it is common in third
> world countries is because they do not vaccinate.

There is no proof that measles is more common in third world
countries
because of lack of vaccination.

In the US and England, between 1915 and 1958, there was a 95% decline
in the
measles death rate. The measles vaccine didn't arrive until the
1960s. The
decline was due to improved sanitation/nutrition.

> > The measles vaccine isn't even very good at stopping the spread
> > of the disease. Lots of people who get measles have already been
> > vaccinated
> against
> > it. The same is true of other vaccines.
>
> Again, half true. While no vaccine gives 100% immunity, in recent
> outbreaks in the US and in Europe unvaccinated people were
> overwhelmingly more likely to get measles than vaccinated ones.

In 1985 the US government reported that 80% of notified cases of
measles had
been vaccinated.

> > As the years go by children's immune systems are getting less and
> > less stimulation because of the increasing number of diseases
> > that they are
> being
> > vaccinated against.
>
> Pure BS. Children are exposed to hundreds if not thousands of
> viruses every year. There is no evidence that immunizing against
> the few organisms that we do immunize against (which also
> stimulates the immune system by the way) makes and significant
> difference in the number of infections the kids are exposed to.

Maybe the thousands of viruses that they are exposed to are not
enough of a
challenge to their immune systems, and exposure to some of the mild
disease-causing viruses that they are currenly being vaccinated
against would
pose more of a challenge and result in stronger immune systems.

> The body of evidence showing that vaccines work would argue against
> this. Infections post vaccination tend to be milder and have fewer
> complications even when they do occur. Besides, there is nothing
> about these statements that provides any logical arguement against
> vaccinating.

The body of evidence shows that vaccines don't work. They haven't
been
responsible for disease decline, they can be unsafe, the principles
on how
they're supposed to work are unsound, and they may cause long-term
damage to
the immune system. Apart from that, they're fine.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Is Modern Medicine Causing Asthma?
Date: 14 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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"CBI" <c_ish...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> <tom_n...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > Most of the infectious diseases (e.g. measles,mumps,rubella) that
> > infants
> are
> > vaccinated against are, the vast majority of the time, mild and
> > harmless.
>
> Measles kills one million children per year according to Unicef
> data. Authors since William Osler in the 1890's have described it
> as one of the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among
> children. Rubella is mild in the child but causes "fetal rubella
> syndrome" (several birth defects) if pregant mother catch it. Mumps
> causes a series of perment problems including infertility in men.
> "Mild and harmless" indeed.

Measles does kill this many, mostly in third world countries, and the
reason
is because of severe malnutrition. A weakened immune system from
malnutrition
is not able to fight off what would otherwise be a very mild,
harmless
disease. The way to wipe out deaths from measles and other infectious
diseases is improved nutrition and sanitation, not vaccines.

The measles vaccine isn't even very good at stopping the spread of
the
disease. Lots of people who get measles have already been vaccinated
against
it. The same is true of other vaccines.

If mumps and rubella are mild diseases in childhood, why are their
vaccines
being given to infants whose immune systems are still immature and
developing?

> > Infectious diseases contracted at an appropriate age and allowed
> > to run
> their
> > course can be beneficial because they serve to prime and mature
> > the
> child's
> > immune system. They play a vital role in the development of a
> > strong,
> healthy
> > immune system.
>
> Again, frequently hypothesized but never proven.
>
> This theory suffers from the flaw that it assumes that the few
> diseases that are immunized against repesent a significan
> proportion of the different infections a child will face growing
> up. The immune system gets plent of stimulation without seeing
> these infections. It also assumes that the immune stimulation is
> fundamentally different than the stimulation recieved by the
> vaccine. While they certainly are not the same they are similar and
> there is not reason to suspect that one is good and needed and the
> other is harmful.

As the years go by children's immune systems are getting less and
less
stimulation because of the increasing number of diseases that they
are being
vaccinated against.

There is a fundamental difference between the immune stimulation
received
from a vaccine and that received naturally. There's more to immune
stimulation than just antibody production, which is all that vaccines
replicate. Natural immunization is a complex process and involves
many organs
and systems. Naturally acquired immunity is far more powerful than
the
"immunity" received from vaccines. Reinfection with a disease is very
rare
after having had the disease, whereas it can be quite easy to catch
it after
being vaccinated against it. Epidemics breaking out in fully
vaccinated
populations are not uncommon.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Is Modern Medicine Causing Asth- ma?
Date: 12 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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Over the past few decades there has been a dramatic increase in the
incidence
of asth- ma and other autoimmune diseases.

One plausible explanation is that the medical industry itself is
responsible
for the rise. The long-term effects of multiple vaccinations on
certain
people's immune systems can be detrimental.

Most of the infectious diseases (e.g. measles,mumps,rubella) that
infants are
vaccinated against are, the vast majority of the time, mild and
harmless.
Infectious diseases contracted at an appropriate age and allowed to
run their
course can be beneficial because they serve to prime and mature the
child's
immune system. They play a vital role in the development of a strong,
healthy
immune system.

Messing around with an immature, developing immune system by
simultaneously
vaccinating against multiple diseases denies it the opportunity to
learn and
grow stronger, as nature intended. It can only strengthen by
overcoming
challenges, not by avoiding them. In later years this avoidance may
result in
conditions like asth- ma, where the immune system starts to act in a
totally
exaggerated and inappropriate manner.

Several studies have shown that vaccinated children have a higher
incidence
of asth- ma than unvaccinated children, and that infection with
childhood
disease can lower the risk of getting asth- ma later on:

http://www.909shot.com/dimedia.htm

The myths that vaccines are safe and effective are addressed here:

http://www.unc.edu/~aphillip/www/vaccine/dvm1.htm

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Life span enhancement via medicine
Date: 09 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <8a7b1u$q6d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <894170$6ra$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
<38B5D466...@mediaone.net>
<01bf81ce$740b31c0$36654f0c@oemcomputer>
<38BB0ED3...@mediaone.net>
<01bf85c0$ac579820$14664f0c@oemcomputer>
<38C19B42...@mediaone.net>
<01bf872c$f2e26fa0$a0c04f0c@oemcomputer>
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In article <38C5D348...@ieee.org>,
Daniel Hicks <danh...@ieee.org> wrote:
> Don Elton wrote:
> >
> > Availability of food and sanitation are nice and are certainly
> > cheap effective ways of improving longevity but there are other
> > very important contributions from medicine that have very
> > significant effects on average or even median life span. For
> > example...
>
> Compared to public sanitation, all those other things are noise
> level.

This is true. Researchers in the 1970s estimated that medical
intervention
only accounted for between 1 and 3.5 per cent of the increase in the
average
lifespan in the U.S. since 1900.

The primary factors are improvements in nutrition and in public
sanitation.

Of course, the medical industry likes to take most of the credit.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Energy work
Date: 25 Feb 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <894t5p$t3i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <88t3v2$830$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
<20000222222701...@ng-ce1.aol.com>
<hackyx-2202...@cdsl230.sttl.uswest.net>
<38B4D1AA...@last.dircon.co.uk>
<1u4t4.1931$i_1....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>
<v9gabskn5g7gpbp34...@4ax.com>
<FIct4.199$9z3....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>
<qnqbbs449hq50bqld...@4ax.com>
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> It's a terrible responsibility - but somebody has to be the
> Americans.

Hey, don't feel too bad about it! You can't help the fact that you
are
American. You were born there so you'll just have to accept it.

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From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Chinese Medicine for asth- ma
Date: 18 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf4908$a49298a0$4829...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
References: <0788c3d7...@usw-ex0109-066.remarq.com>
<bjev4skrtcbsnr58n...@4ax.com>
<01bf4509$71b3e360$0c7b4f0c@oemcomputer>
<Pine.LNX.4.10.991213...@cbbs.cts.com>
<2234bf46...@usw-ex0109-066.remarq.com>
<uanb5s44as5sahnta...@4ax.com>
<hacky-14129...@jdsl145.sttl.uswest.net>
<1ce58b52...@usw-ex0109-066.remarq.com>
<o58f5sghb0g3e3up3...@4ax.com>
<00844d40...@usw-ex0109-066.remarq.com>
<ioig5sosrp3j2q1uf...@4ax.com>
<01bf4784$03118c00$88c14f0c@oemcomputer>
<3859A5D1...@last.dircon.co.uk>
<01bf4827$e5eb7100$ce664f0c@oemcomputer>
<385A136B...@last.dircon.co.uk> <3859BB19...@yahoo.com>
<hacky-16129...@hdsl106.sttl.uswest.net>
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hacky <ha...@Xearthlink.net> wrote in article
<hacky-16129...@hdsl106.sttl.uswest.net>...

> It would be relatively easy to design placebo or sham-controlled
> studies of acupuncture. It has even been done for chiropractic. If
> something is not testable it is really in the realm of religion
> etc...
(snip)

> Again, not true. Placebos are just another name for "controls".
> Every field of scientific study must utilize controls.

I hate to burst your little bubble but only a small proportion of
medical
interventions are evidence based.

For example, in 1983, the U.S. Office of Technology Assessment
reported
that "only 10 to 20% of all procedures currently used in medical
practice
have been shown to be efficacious by controlled trial."

I guess the other 80 to 90% must be "in the realm of religion". So,
most of
what passes for modern medicine hasn't been proven and is pure
quackery.
Well, knock me down with a feather.

http://whale.to/Gastaldo.htm

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Early morning problems
Date: 13 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf450d$cdba6720$3629...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
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00:40:42 GMT)
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:40:42 GMT
Newsgroups: a.s.a

Howard Belasco <bela...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<MPG.12bd97562...@news.flashcom.com>...
>
> My asth- ma has decided to flair up and it is not the usual
> problems I have

> had. I an 59 and have had asth- ma for 5 years now. I control it
> with azmacort (4 puffs twice a day) and albutrol as needed. In the
> last few months I have been waking up between 2:30am and 4:00am
> with chest rattles, constriction, and a general feeling of not
> being able to catch my breath. Sitting up in bed eases things, 2
> puffs of albutrol eases it a

> little more but I can not lie down again. I need to get up and
> remain sitting for several hours. Once up for a few hours I can
> then lie down in

> the bed again for several more hours of sleep and I wake up without
> rails

> or heavy breathing.
>
> The bedding is brand new, wrapped in dust mite proof covers as are
> the pillows. No carpets, the pets are never in the room.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem with breathing problems just in
> the early morning hours? My doctor was convinced it was sleep
> apnea but I tested fine for that.
>

There is a theory that, for the majority of people, asth- ma is a
physiological adaptation of their bodies to prolonged dehydration and
salt
shortage.

Dehydration can cause bronchospasm and can cause excess mucus to be
secreted so that the lungs don't dry out.

The problem may simply be that you are not drinking enough water
every day.
The average adult needs to drink at least 10 glasses per day.

An extra half teaspoon of salt should be added to the daily diet to
compensate for any lost due to the increased water intake. Salt is an
antihistamine and helps break up mucus.

If you wake up in the middle of the night drink a couple of glasses
of
water and put a pinch of salt on your tongue. This should lessen the
symptoms.

http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Chronic disease or chronic excuse?
Date: 07 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf4051$cc91d060$6129...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
References: <Y8x24.15178$ZZ2.1...@news4.mia>
<01bf3f88$529100c0$5429...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
<384B12D1...@hinsbarlabs.com>
<01bf403b$ce4a7ee0$6129...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
<384C30B3...@hinsbarlabs.com>
X-Complaints-To: ab...@iol.ie
X-Trace: news.iol.ie 944525093 194.125.41.97 (Tue, 07 Dec 1999
00:04:53 GMT)
Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 00:04:53 GMT
Newsgroups: a.s.a

Lisa DeSavage <l...@hinsbarlabs.com> wrote in article
<384C30B3...@hinsbarlabs.com>...
> Sounds like a vicious cycle to me. Eat salt, drink water. Eat
> salt, drink water. What about water retention? I am told this can
> add to breathing problems. I hate to say it, but Howard, I think
> you are really out in left field on this one. As Colin said, more
> crazy that the butyko group. Sorry if I offended you. However,
> this is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I don't know what vicious circle you're talking about. Water and salt
are
the second and third most important substances for the survival of
the
human body. You have to consume a certain amount of each for good
health.
If you drink a lot of water more salt will be excreted from the body
and if
it is not replaced by more in the diet, salt-deficiency can result,
which
is not good for asth- matics.

Water retention normally comes about when a person is dehydrated. The
body
begins to retain salt in order to hold on to what little water it
has.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Chronic disease or chronic excuse?
Date: 06 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf4043$8fdd6160$6129...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
References: <Y8x24.15178$ZZ2.1...@news4.mia>
<Pine.LNX.4.10.991206...@cbbs.cts.com>
X-Complaints-To: ab...@iol.ie
X-Trace: news.iol.ie 944518978 194.125.41.97 (Mon, 06 Dec 1999
22:22:58 GMT)
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Newsgroups: a.s.a

Don Elton <del...@cbbs.cts.com> wrote in article
<Pine.LNX.4.10.991206...@cbbs.cts.com>...

> Why do
> you suppose life expectancy is better now than it was 10, 20, or
> 100 years ago if not for advances in medicine and science? It will
> probably be better 100 years from now than it is now yet people
> will still find ways to die and thus medical research will still
> have projects to work on.

Improved life expectancy over the last 100 years has had very little
to do
with medical science and more to do with improved nutrition and
better
sanitation.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Chronic disease or chronic excuse?
Date: 06 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf4041$2a624b40$6129...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
References: <Y8x24.15178$ZZ2.1...@news4.mia>
<82f40r$q...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
<hackyx-0612...@hdsl222.sttl.uswest.net>
X-Complaints-To: ab...@iol.ie
X-Trace: news.iol.ie 944517949 194.125.41.97 (Mon, 06 Dec 1999
22:05:49 GMT)
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Newsgroups: a.s.a

hacky <hac...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
> Very insightful, I totally agree that the human genome project is
> laying the foundation for cures of many diseases, potentially all
> of them in the distant future. Gene therapy is the future and it
> will bring some
> difficult problems withit such as what will society be like if
> lifespans run around a 100 yrs or so. We are also heading toward a
> time when in essence modern medicine will be really screwing with
> human evolution (an argument can be made that this is already
> happening but we ain't seen nothing yet). It is difficult for the
> alternatives crwod to comprehend this as they do not understand the
> ulitmate genetic basis / predisposition of probably every disease
> and how abnormal gene leads to abnormal protein leads to abnormal
> biochemical pathway leads to disease. Even who gets certain
> infections and how sick they get from these infections has a
> genetic basis. Perhaps traumatic injury will become the most common
> means of dying for all age groups.

When medical science, after many years of research, hasn't a clue as
to
what causes a particular disease and when their drugs don't seem very
effective at treating it, they can always fall back on the old "it's
almost
certainly genetic" line. It's quite handy really. They're off the
hook.

BTW, did you know that 98% of people who drown in the River Seine are
French. This had baffled scientists for some time but they now
believe that
French people are genetically predisposed to drowning in this river.
Work
is currently underway to identify the "Drown-in-the-Seine" gene and
the
results look very promising. No, really.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Chronic disease or chronic excuse?
Date: 06 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf403c$4763c700$6129...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
References: <Y8x24.15178$ZZ2.1...@news4.mia>
<01bf3f88$529100c0$5429...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
<hackyx-0612...@hdsl222.sttl.uswest.net>
X-Complaints-To: ab...@iol.ie
X-Trace: news.iol.ie 944515850 194.125.41.97 (Mon, 06 Dec 1999
21:30:50 GMT)
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:30:50 GMT
Newsgroups: a.s.a

hacky <hac...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
> You are as mad as a hatter.
>

You are as cracked as a goat.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Chronic disease or chronic excuse?
Date: 06 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf403b$ce4a7ee0$6129...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
References: <Y8x24.15178$ZZ2.1...@news4.mia>
<01bf3f88$529100c0$5429...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
<384B12D1...@hinsbarlabs.com>
X-Complaints-To: ab...@iol.ie
X-Trace: news.iol.ie 944515647 194.125.41.97 (Mon, 06 Dec 1999
21:27:27 GMT)
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:27:27 GMT
Newsgroups: a.s.a

Lisa DeSavage <l...@hinsbarlabs.com> wrote in article
<384B12D1...@hinsbarlabs.com>...
> Howard,
>
> Numerous times I have mentioned in response to your posts that I
> drink at least 100 ounces of water a day, exercise, and don't
> monitor my salt intake. (I almost never add extra salt, but don't
> practice a low sodium diet.) I eat a well round diet and take a
> multi vitamin daily just because. I still have severe asth- ma.
> Just where does this craziness come from? How much water is one
> suppose to consume to "cure" their asth- ma? Shall I move to one
> of the coasts and drink nothing but ocean water? Get real.

Maybe you should think about increasing your salt intake.

Salt is an antihistamine and also helps break up mucus.

For every 2 quarts of water consumed, an extra half teaspoon of salt
should
be added to the daily diet.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Chronic disease or chronic excuse?
Date: 06 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf3f8c$b7f94040$5429...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
References: <Y8x24.15178$ZZ2.1...@news4.mia>
<u4tl4soqfv2dkoq6s...@4ax.com>
X-Complaints-To: ab...@iol.ie
X-Trace: news.iol.ie 944440458 194.125.41.84 (Mon, 06 Dec 1999
00:34:18 GMT)
Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 00:34:18 GMT
Newsgroups: a.s.a

Colin Campbell <col...@linkline.com> wrote in article
<u4tl4soqfv2dkoq6s...@4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:18:53 -0500, "Alvin D. Hofer"
> <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >I wonder how many diseases have been cured in the past forty
> >years; I mean omitting those that have been quelled by
> >antibiotics?
>
> Smallpox?

The elimination of smallpox has been primarily due to improved
sanitation
and not to vaccination.

http://whale.to/Vaccines/smallpox.html

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Chronic disease or chronic excuse?
Date: 06 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf3f88$529100c0$5429...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
References: <Y8x24.15178$ZZ2.1...@news4.mia>
X-Complaints-To: ab...@iol.ie
X-Trace: news.iol.ie 944438570 194.125.41.84 (Mon, 06 Dec 1999
00:02:50 GMT)
Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 00:02:50 GMT
Newsgroups: a.s.a

Alvin D. Hofer <al...@bellsouth.net> wrote in article
<Y8x24.15178$ZZ2.1...@news4.mia>...
> I wonder how many diseases have been cured in the past forty years;
> I mean omitting those that have been quelled by antibiotics? I
> don't think more than a few, if indeed any. The label "chronic
> disease" is a clever invention: it really means a disease that no
> one yet knows how to cure. Thus the disease gets demonized and the
> embarrassing ingnorance is not made explicit.
>
> Do our research establishments really direct their efforts at
> cures? Where are the incentives? If a pharmaceutical company were
> to find a cure for asth- ma, a wonder-drug, it would certainly
> sell; but it would sell just once to each customer. Certainly, it
> is more profitable to "manage" asth- ma than to cure it. If NIH
> found a cure for asth- ma, would the discovery prompt the drug
> lobbyists to push for increased funding by Congress for NIH to
> enable the finding of cures for other diseases that are now at best
> "managed"?

Actually, there is a cure for asth- ma and it is purely through
nutritional
means. There is no money to be made from it, which is why so little
is
heard about it. In fact, efforts have been made to prevent it from
becoming
more widely known to the general public.

For the vast majority of people, asth- ma is a physiological
adaptation of
their bodies to prolonged dehydration and salt shortage. If enough
attention is paid to regular water and salt intake asth- ma can be
cured or
greatly improved.

It is a sad state of affairs that doctors are not taught in medical
school
what can happen to the human body if it does not receive, on a
regular
basis, an adequate amount of its most vital nutrient--water. They
spend
about three hours learning about nutrition and several hundred
learning
about pharmaceuticals.

http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Asth- ma in adult life
Date: 02 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <826l6p$qq7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <384599F1...@pop.net.ntl.com>
<pjlb4skn8kikk37mf...@4ax.com>
X-Http-Proxy: NetC...@cache.iol.ie: Version 3.3.1, 1.0
x30.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 194.125.2.129
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Dec 02 20:36:08 1999 GMT
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Newsgroups: a.s.a
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> Your doctor is wrong. You never grow out of asth- ma. What
> happens is that you stop having symptoms for several years. You
> can expect it to return during or after his late 20's.
>
> The idea that you can grow out of asth- ma is a myth.

Did you just make this up yourself? Some people can and do outgrow
asth- ma.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: The Water & Salt Cure
Date: 21 Nov 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <819oak$neb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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Newsgroups: alt.med.allergy

Chronic dehydration, in a vast majority of people, is the primary
cause of
allergies and asth- ma. An increase in daily water (and salt) intake
can cure,
or at least greatly alleviate, these conditions. This is the view of
Dr F
Batmanghelidj: http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

It has been discovered that histamine is the body's water metabolism
regulator. In a properly hydrated body it is less active but in a
dehydrated
body its rate of production increases and it becomes more active.

Water has powerful antihistamine properties. The same is true of
salt; when
water intake is increased, a little extra salt should be added to the
diet
to
prevent salt-deficiency.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: smelly people
Date: 20 Nov 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <8170v0$v78$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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> Gamboling's net effect
> exacts a more egregious burdon upon society than all other
> controversial personal habits combined, including illegal drugs.

I don't agree. A good lively frolic in the fresh air never hurt
anyone.

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From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Shallow breathing technique
Date: 11 Nov 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf2c93$d76fb460$0329...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> On Tue, 09 Nov 1999 23:08:18 GMT, "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
> wrote:
>
>
> >In many cases the underlying cause of an asth- ma attack is
> >dehydration. There is a severe shortage of water in the body and,
> >as a crisis measure, the bronchioles constrict to limit any
> >further moisture from being lost in the form of water vapor in the
> >exhaled air.
>
> Huh??? Every reference I have read indicates that dehydration is
> a result of asth- ma symptoms, rather than a cause.
>
> Do you have any scientific references?

I already gave a link to a study where the authors noted that
dehydration
can cause bronchospasm and can lead to a decline in lung function:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/health/daily/june99/dehydration4.
htm

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Shallow breathing technique
Date: 09 Nov 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf2b12$368a4420$2129...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> The case for some form of breathing modification is strengthened
> by the finding that EIA and nocturnal asth- ma is due to drying of
> the lung [1]. Other forms ie. "dry cough asth- ma" and COPD are
> also likely candidates for moisture deficient triggering of
> symptoms.
> EIA and nocturnal symptoms occur in as many as 80 - 90% of
> asth- matics according to various published statistics and so It
> is an important underlying factor.
>

In many cases the underlying cause of an asth- ma attack is
dehydration.
There is a severe shortage of water in the body and, as a crisis
measure,
the bronchioles constrict to limit any further moisture from being
lost in
the form of water vapor in the exhaled air.

A slow, shallow breathing technique might lessen symptons because it
reduces the rate at which moisture is lost from the lungs.

However, it makes more sense for all asth- matics to ensure that they
are
well hydrated at all times.

"Dehydration Complicates Asth- ma":
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/health/daily/june99/dehydration4.
htm

From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: please help me:need information
Date: 30 Oct 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <7vfisq$q7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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> First sorry because my english is terrible but i need an
> information about asth- ma and iwant to be sur of asking most
> members of that discussion group
> my question is : i have heard about "vaccination" (in
> french it called like this)aigaint asth- ma it can reduce des
> symthomes by 30 per 100
> if you have any information about that please contact me

A vaccine gives immunity to a bacterial or viral disease by
stimulating the
body to produce antibodies to a specific bacterium or virus. Since
asth- ma is
not a bacterial or viral disease there cannot be a vaccine for asth-
ma.

Anyway, there is evidence that vaccines themselves can increase an
individual's suseptibility to develop asth- ma.

"....the human immune system has evolved over tens of thousands of
years to
respond to and be strengthened by attacks from viruses and bacteria.
Depriving the developing immune system of naturally occurring
infections in
childhood may cause the immune system to eventually attack itself,
which is
what happens in autoimmune diseases like asth- ma and diabetes."

http://www.909shot.com/dimedia.htm

http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/odent.html

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Vitamin "O" aka "Stabilized Oxygen" - Has any one tried
it?
Date: 30 Oct 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <7vfp3r$4nt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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> I never professed any such thing (of course you may feel free to
> infer what you will), do you see any fancy-schmancy pretentious
> rankings attached to my name?
> You are a non-entity, you have no name.

The above is very sloppy. It contains at least five or six errors.
For
example, you've used commas when you should have used periods, and
the word
'nonentity' isn't hyphenated. So there.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Is there a definitive cure?
Date: 12 Oct 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <7u06c0$cds$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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> I wonder if there is a cure. I have tried with almost everything,
> including acupuncture. I am allergic to my cat (is my partner's
> cat, what can I do?) and the only thing it works more or less is
> homeopathy, but I do not know if I have to take it forever or if
> there is something better. Any help?

Some people have been CURED of asth- ma and allergies simply by
increasing
their daily water intake and adding a little extra salt to their
diet.

Chronic dehydration often plays a major role in the emergence and
continuation of these conditions. Unfortunately, medical students
aren't
taught what can happen to the human body if enough water is not
consumed on a
regular basis.

An adequate daily water intake is probably the most important factor
in
maintaining good health and remaining disease free. How many doctors
ask
their patients about their water intake? Enough said.

http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Thought that came to me...
Date: 22 Aug 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <7pprki$s7k$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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> :It's related to the book "1986".
> :
> :I just thought about this.
> :
> :Anarchy is peace.
> :Government is chaos.
> :
>
> I believe you mean "1984".
>
> DA

Actually, it's called "Nineteen Eighty-Four".

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: my goodness, my guinness
Date: 21 Aug 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <7pmh14$ns9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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yes

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From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: In favor of spacers.
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bec8b9$9007fc60$2829...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> >Skepticism has little to do with the scientific method.
> >Skepticism approaches everything from the negative, which is not
> >the least bit scientific. Or perhaps only half scientific.
>
> Scepticism approaches everything from the standpoint that something
> is either 'proven' or it is not. Until something is proven to
> objective criteria then it remains unproven.
>
> If you do not do this then you are considering an assumption to
> carry more weight that it should. Sceptics are very good at
> separating
> assumptions from facts.

22 symptoms of pathological skepticism:

http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/pathsk2.txt

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: FTC Tips on Internet Health Claims (info)
Date: 26 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01bebff4$a5415400$2029...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> No doubt another example of the vast conspiracy involving thousands
> of researchers, doctors, politicians and businessmen to keep
> "traditional" medicine and science in power. All I have to say is
> FIGHT THE MAN! If it's natural, ancient, or produces ozone, it just
> gots to be good and good for you.

The Pharmaceutical Drug Racket:
http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/drug.html

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Buteyko and Dehydration
Date: 17 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb8f2$cc7a0de0$4e29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

The practise of the Buteyko breathing technique seems to provide
relief of
symptoms and results in less reliance on medication, at least for
some
people.

However, the theory used to explain why it works is fairly suspect.
It says
that asth- matics overbreathe, leading to reduced CO2 levels which
affects
the metabolism.

A more plausible explanation of why it works may be provided by the
theory
that asth- ma is an adaptation of the body to dehydration and salt
shortage.

During breathing water is lost from the lungs in the form of water
vapor in
the exhaled air. Bronchial constriction is a natural maneuver by a
dehydrated body to limit any further loss of water from the lungs.
Any
increase in the depth and frequency of respiration will result in
more
water vapor being lost and will, in asth- matics, increase the
likelihood of
bronchial constriction. Conversely, shallower and slower breathing
will
decrease the rate of water vapor loss and reduce the chances of
bronchial
constriction. Any technique that successfully brings the latter type
of
breathing about on a long term basis may result in a reduction in
symptoms.

Although Buteyko may provide relief of symptoms it doesn't get to the
root
cause of the problem--dehydration/salt shortage.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 12 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb4f8$00ed66c0$2b29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

David Hobbs wrote:
> >The only reason there is fluid retention in the body is because it
> >is dehydrated
>
> sheesh!! this is going past incedulous and into hysterics!!
> Anyone have David Letterman's phone number?? I think he has some
> good material here!

"You cannot by reasoning correct a man of ill opinion which by
reasoning he
never acquired."
Francis Bacon

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 10 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb38d$0ae51ae0$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> Too much salt makes the body retain too much water. Simple
> biology.

Do you not realise that water and salt levels are closely related?
You are
failing to take into account an individual's level of hydration. You
can't
just look at salt intake in isolation.

The same salt intake will have a different effect on a dehydrated
body than
it will on a well hydrated body. In a dehydrated body the salt will
tend to
be retained in order to keep water in the body. In a well hydrated
body
there is less need for its retention and most of it will be excreted,
hence
the need to increase salt intake.

> >The way hypertension is treated is ridiculous. The body is
> >attempting to hold onto water but the patient is given a diuretic
> >which forces more water out of the body.
>
> That is not the way hypertension is treated. You are ridiculously
> in error.
>
> Salt intake reduction is one of the ways to keep blood pressure
> down.
>
> Basic biology.

The use of diuretics is one of the ways that hypertension is treated.

Salt is not the culprit. Dehydration is. Salt retention is a natural
mechanism to keep water in the body. People with high blood pressure
should
increase their water intake.

> >As I stated before, anyone with damaged kidneys has to be careful
> >of fluid retention and should increase water intake gradually and
> >under the supervision of their doctor.
> >
>
> High blood pressure is not caused by damaged kidneys. Neither is
> congestive heart failure.

I never said they were. I said people with damaged kidneys and with
heart
failure problems should increase their water intake gradually and
under the
supervision of a doctor.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 10 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb391$4559dea0$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> After reading this thread, I was wondering how much water am I
> suppose to drink? I already drink over eight glasses a day.(Not
> soda, juice, etc...I drink water.) I have a feeling that now I am
> going to be told to add salt. Once again, how much of that am I
> suppose to have. Most diets, already have more than enough. ( I
> am thinking that I must take in enough salt.) I would like to see
> some numbers, on how much
> water/salt I am suppose to be in taking, because I find it hard to
> believe that I don't get enough.

For every 10 glasses of water you should add an extra half teaspoon
of salt
to the diet.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 10 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb398$5eb6ed00$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> All right, twit: I eat AT LEAST 35 GRAMS of salt each and every
> day. I know this because I line up 35 one-gram tablets every
> morning to take. I also drink TWO GALLONS of water, in addition to
> anything else I may have to drink during the day. Fill two gallon
> jugs with water every morning, and drink them dry by bedtime. And
> guess what? I
> still have asth- ma, and still need to take asth- ma medications.
> There goes your brilliant theory -- killed by an ugly fact.

The theory hasn't been killed by an ugly fact.

People should drink enough water to be properly hydrated and should
add
some extra salt to their diet to ensure that they don't become salt
deficient.

It doesn't necessarily follow that because adequate water/salt intake
is
good for asth- ma that massive quantities will be even better.In
fact, it
might make it worse. There is a delicate balance between water and
salt
levels and they should be at an optimum level. Too much water and/or
too
much salt can throw it off balance.

Why, if you don't mind me asking, are you consuming such huge amounts
of
water and salt on a daily basis?

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: The Cure for Asth- ma !!!
Date: 10 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb39c$71319ee0$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> Yes, here it is! At long last. The cure for asth- ma.
>
> Corn Flakes!
>
> That's right.
>
> This miracle cure, long supressed by a conspiracy involving the
> AMA, the pharmaceutical companies, and the Bacon and Eggs Lobby,
> has at last been revealed by Yours Truly.

Increased cornflake consumption is good for asth- ma. This is common
knowledge among health care professionals

Now, you would think that they would not do so, as it might eat into
the
profits of the drug companies. But they do!

So why would they ALL--and this is what you are actually saying--why
would
they ALL hide this miracle cornflake cure from us?

You would think there would be enough honest health care
professionals,
that the information would leak out, get on 60 Minutes, and we'd all
know
about it.

YES! Eat cornflakes. Absolutely. But don't expect them to cure your
asth- ma.
Instead of milk put water on your cornflakes and sprinkle some salt
on
them. This might do the trick.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 09 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb2bf$993a8740$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> In article <01beb200$dbd3fd80$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>,
> "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie> wrote:

> >You have stated that a person who increases their water intake and
> >who adds some extra salt to their diet can be putting themselves
> >in great danger.

> If they have certain kinds of health problems, yes, they can. For
> instance, obviously you don't know that increased salt intake can
> cause blood pressure to rise. And can also cause retention of
> water in the body, thus aggrevating a variety of heart ailments.

> Any moron can find out the above information in a few minutes of
> research.

Hypertension is another condition that is caused by dehydration. The
retention of salt during dehydration is a natural mechanism to keep
water
in the body. To assume that salt retention to be the cause of
hypertension
is inaccurate. The rise in blood pressure builds the filtration force
necessary to force water into the cells from the water/salt solution
outside the cells.

The way hypertension is treated is ridiculous. The body is attempting
to
hold onto water but the patient is given a diuretic which forces more
water
out of the body. He ends up even more dehydrated and his blood
pressure
rises yet further. Anyone with hypertension should increase their
daily
water intake. If long term hypertension has caused heart failure
complications water intake should be increased more gradually (and
under
the guidance of a doctor) until the heart regains its strength.

As I stated before, anyone with damaged kidneys has to be careful of
fluid
retention and should increase water intake gradually and under the
supervision of their doctor.

The following book explains the connection between dehydration and
various
diseases and conditions:
"Your Body's Many Cries For Water" by Dr F Batmanghelidj.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 09 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb2c5$5054f8c0$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> hi,i think we all know it will take a bit more than salt and water
> to cure asth- ma. So really i dont think that most people on this
> group will listen to this.
>
> But if it turns out to be true( i say with a -:))) i will be first
> in line to give our Chantelle it, or any other miracle cure,, no
> matter what it costs i think everyone will line up (or maybe fight
> to get at it) for a cure if it was real.

You don't have to wait for proof that it works before giving it a go.
I
know you don't believe it will work but what have you got to loose by
trying it out? It's simple, harmless, and will cost you nothing. From
tomorrow you should get your daughter to increase her daily water
intake
and get her to add a little extra salt to her food.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 08 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb1dd$bdde3de0$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> >From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
> >How is drinking more water
> >and adding some salt to the diet going to kill anybody? I advised
> >people not to reduce their medication without the approval of
> >their doctor. If it's going to have any effect it'll be in helping
> >people.
>
> once again your lack of clinical education and experience (ie
> training and licensure and practice) show through. You do not have
> the faintest insight into pathophysiology and sequelae of asth- ma
> and other Respiratory illnesses not to mention cardiac disease.
> Perhaps while you read up on such subjects as cor pulmonale,
> pulmonary hypertension, congestive heart failure; you might add a
> few months worth of study in pharmacology and the effectrs and
> side-effects of required medication to treat these disease
> entities....since you are busy trying to cover yourself by saying
> speak to your doctor, and don't stop your medications.

> I believe that you have meant no harm by your post, but to continue
> defending it is irresponsible and, as I stated before, may well be
> instrumental in the death of a patient.

Never mind the potentially harmful side effects of the cocktail of
toxic
pharmaceuticals taken to mask the symptons of asth- ma. They're fine.
It's
drinking the required amount of water necessary for good health that
can be
lethal! Same with salt!

In order to save people from inadvertently killing themselves you'd
better
explain what "cor pulmonale, pulmonary hypertension, congestive heart
failure" are and how drinking a proper amount of water and adding
some
extra salt to the diet can bring them about. I bet you can explain it
no
more than a cat.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 08 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb1f2$68f8f260$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> So why would they ALL -- and this is what you are actually saying
> -- why would they ALL hide this miracle water cure from us?
>
> You would think that there would be enough honest health care
> professionals, that the information would leak out, get on 60
> Minutes, and then we'd all know about it!

Most doctors have only the best interests of their patients at heart.
The
reason they don't advise them about their water/salt intake is that
they
are unaware that asth- ma is a result of dehydration/salt shortage.
They
trust what they have been taught in medical school, what they read in
medical journals and what they are told by the professional bodies
that
control medicine. This simple cure has been fraudulently concealed
from
doctors and the public.

Doctors are taught to treat asth- ma with synthetic drugs. The
pharmaceutical
industry exerts a great deal of influence over the way medicine is
taught
and practised. It gives massive funding and research grants to
medical
schools. Without advertising revenue from drug companies many medical
journals couldn't survive. These journals can carry full color
advertisments for the very drugs they are meant to be evaluating the
efficiency of. The journals might be reluctant to bite the hand that
feeds
by accepting papers on alternative treatments that might threaten the
profits of the drug companies. Pure medical science and capitalism
don't
always mix very well.

The American Medical Association were made aware of the scientific
basis of
the fact that dehydration is the root cause of many diseases but they
have
chosen to ignore it. The National Institute of Health have made
attempts to
block the spread of information to other scientists about the true
cause of
asth- ma.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 08 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb200$dbd3fd80$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> >Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
> >From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
> >Ha! I knew you wouldn't give an explanation. Let's face it--you're
> >not able
> to.
>
> As I said Mr. Hobbs......the facts are avaiable in any standard
> medical textbook. The pathophysiology exists and each entity has
> had tons of scientific research and clinical trials performed in
> order to come up with treatment options. Take a trip to your local
> medical school.

You have stated that a person who increases their water intake and
who adds
some extra salt to their diet can be putting themselves in great
danger.

For the benefit of anyone who has already increased their water/salt
intake
and who may be concerned about your remarks would you outline
precisely
what the dangers are and how they come about?

You say you have medical training. What are you afraid of? Will you
stop
messing about and specify the dangers.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 08 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb1f4$2974a740$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> >Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
> >From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
> >In order to save people from inadvertently killing themselves
> >you'd better explain what "cor pulmonale, pulmonary hypertension,
> >congestive heart failure" are and how drinking a proper amount of
> >water and adding some extra salt to the diet can bring them about.
> >I bet you can explain it no more than a cat.
>
> Gee David.....since you aren't aware of these medical conditions I
> am not going to waste my time with you.

Ha! I knew you wouldn't give an explanation. Let's face it--you're
not able
to.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 08 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb1f6$21852e40$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> >There is a lot of clinical evidence that proper water/salt intake
> >can cure or at least vastly improve asth- ma and allergies.
>
> That is bull. When I was a child, before there was albuterol, the
> doctors used to make me drink water until I vomited. Guess what -
> it didnt do squat. I have always eaten a lot of salt so that aint
> it either. It never occurred to you that someone WOULD HAVE
> THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE AND SAVED SO MANY PEOPLE FROM
> DYING??????????

What is your present average daily water intake? Just curious.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 07 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb080$2709aac0$1d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> Can you provide some citation references that support your theory?
> Or is this simply something that some quack made up?

I have cited references elsewhere in this thread.

My dictionary defines a quack as following:

"Someone who practises medicine or who claims to have medical
knowledge, but
who has no formal training in the subject"

The main proponent of the idea that asth- ma is caused by prolonged
dehydration/salt shortage is F Batmanghelidj. He is a medical doctor
and
has published papers in scientific journals. So, under the above
definition, he is not a quack.

I suspect you have a different definition of a quack. Do you call
someone a
quack if they have appropriate medical training but their views do
not
strictly conform to that of mainstream medicine? How about if they
claim
that a so called incureable disease is cureable? Are they then, by
definition, a quack? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that a
"quack"'s
theory is eventually accepted by mainstream medicine. Is it at this
point
they cease to be a quack or were they never really a quack in the
first
place? When is a quack not a quack? Put me in the picture.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 07 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb100$8040cf80$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> On 6 Jun 1999 22:04:33 GMT, "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie> wrote:

> >Inhalation of various airborne substances can cause everybody's
> >lungs to release a certain amount of histamine. This is a normal,
> >healthy reaction by the immune system.
>
> And those substances are regulated (in the US) as hazardous
> workplace chemicals.

I was talking about things like dust, pollen, smoke etc.

> >The question is why do some of these harmless substances cause
> >certain people's immune systems to react in a totally exaggerated
> >manner. It is abnormal and there must be some reason behind it.
>
> I suggest that you read a book on asth- ma. This has been known
> for over 20 years.

Has it? What is this difference between asth- matics and "normal"
people that
makes asth- matic's immune systems so hypersensitive and causes
airway
inflammation and bronchial constriction. Reading a book on asth- ma
won't
help. It will tell you that the cause of asth- ma is unknown.

> Actually, histamine is released by Mast cells. Mast cells burst
> (and release mediator chemicals, such as histamine) when they come
> in
> contact with activated IgE.

Yes, this is part of the immune system response. Histamine is also
released
by mast cells and basophil white cells during dehydration.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 07 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb139$813774a0$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> >Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
> >From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>

> >>There have been no placebo-controlled, double blind trials
> >>conducted. But
> >these are extremely expensive to carry out and who is going to put
> >up the money? There is little incentive to do trials if there is
> >not a patentable drug at the end that will recoup the costs.

> As for the money.....well, guess you haven't been around the
> research scene very much. There are MANY way in which a gung ho,
> go-getem physician or scientist can get a research grant bypassing
> drug companies. There are MANY humanitarian organizations whi
> EXIST totally to help researchers in their UNBIASED quest for the
> truth. Guess your great doctor isn't tuned into the scientific
> research community al that well........and the information on
> reearch support is GLOBAL. If the good doc wanted to support his
> original research he could....AND WOULD...be doing follow-up
> studies and leave NO chance for errors or questions in the process.

You make it sound like, with a bit of determination, anybody can just
go
out there and get funding for a multi-million dollar clinical trial.
It's
not that easy. There's a very limited amount of money available and a
lot
of competition for it.

> Bottom line is that you are touting a philosophy that ultimately
> can kill people. That's right...if they follow YOUR lead or that
> of this unsupported "study" in attempting to treat their asth- ma
> they could very well end up dead for their efforts. Until you have
> the knowlege and training to make your clinical claims I would
> suggest you stick to something you know. Your posting of this crap
> is grossly irresponsible in my opinion........but that's just MY
> opinion based upon my education and 2 decades of clinical practice.
>

Now you're just getting totally carried away. How is drinking more
water
and adding some salt to the diet going to kill anybody? I advised
people
not to reduce their medication without the approval of their doctor.
If
it's going to have any effect it'll be in helping people.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 07 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb109$e2f854a0$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> Mr Hobbs....once again I ask YOU to submit YOUR credentials and/or
> medicalt training. I AM NOT interested in YOUR interpretation of
> supposed scientific data, not am I interested in your half-baked
> ideas. I am however interested with what authority you speak. Any
> child can reference a scientific work, but that does not qualify
> him or her to defend it's position.

No, I don't have any medical training. However, it is not my theory
or my
interpretation of the scientific data. It is that of Dr F
Batmanghelidj and
I am just passing it on. (Anyhow, you're only a glorified nurse or
something, aren't you. The way you go on you'd think you had about
ten
PhDs.)

> As for the Great omnipotent "Doctor" you speak so highly
> of.......here's a thought.......why have there NOT BEEN any other
> duplicated and published works to SUPPORT this "theory"??? The
> hallmark of scientific research is REPRODUCEABILITY....without it
> you have nothing but useless bits of information which CANNOT
> reliably be used to make ANY scientific conclusions.

There is a lot of clinical evidence that proper water/salt intake can
cure
or at least vastly improve asth- ma and allergies.

There have been no placebo-controlled, double blind trials conducted.
But
these are extremely expensive to carry out and who is going to put up
the
money? There is little incentive to do trials if there is not a
patentable
drug at the end that will recoup the costs.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 06 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beb06b$28951240$1d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> On 5 Jun 1999 19:04:49 GMT, "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >It demonstrates that histamine is THE regulator of water
> >metabolism
>
> No. That would be angoitensin.

No. That would be histamine.

> No. You, however, are assuming that it is dehydration-induced
> histamine release that is the cause of asth- ma. It has been
> repeatedly demonstrated that histamine release in the lungs can be
> stimulated by a wide variety of substances and conditions.
> Dehydration is only ONE, and the least likely in an asth- matic who
> is taking care of
> him/herself, as part of a proper asth- ma management program is the
> consumption of adequate amounts of water.

Inhalation of various airborne substances can cause everybody's lungs
to
release a certain amount of histamine. This is a normal, healthy
reaction
by the immune system.

The question is why do some of these harmless substances cause
certain
people's immune systems to react in a totally exaggerated manner. It
is
abnormal and there must be some reason behind it.

The answer lies in the multiple roles of histamine in the body. It
has
roles in drought management and in defense against foreign
substances. The
histamine release brought about by persistent dehydration/salt
shortage
will tend to stimulate exaggerated histamine release by the immune
system
after the inhalation of different substances.

> You are ignoring all the other demonstrated causes of asth- ma in
> your love-affair with this theory.

If by causes you mean allergens, smoke, exercise etc then the whole
population should be asth- matic! These things only trigger asth- ma
attacks.
The cause is prolonged dehydration/salt shortage.

> 1. We know what causes ulcers, too. It isn't dehydration, but
> infection with H. pylori. Dehydration can exacerbate the symptoms.

The bacteria that have been blamed for causing ulcers actually live
in the
intestines. Everybody has these bacteria but not everyone has ulcers.
If
there isn't prolonged dehydration there won't be ulcer formation.

> 2. Deliberately deprivation does not have to be externally
> induced.

Eh?

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 05 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beaf88$dfc698a0$3729...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> >> >ASTH- MA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO CHRONIC
> >> >DEHYDRATION
> >AND
> >> >SALT SHORTAGE.
> >>
> >> Care to post your research data?
> >>
> >
> >The role of histamine as the body's water metabolism regulator:
> >
> >Batmanghelidj, F; Neurotransmitter Histamine:An Alternative
> >Viewpoint; Third Interscience World Conference on Inflammation,
> >Antiheumatics, Analgesics, Immunomodulators; Book of Abstracts,
> >page 37(A137), Monte Carlo 15-18 March 1989.
>
> Actually, this article demonstrates that histamine is A regulator
> of water metabolism. It doesn't address the issue of causes of
> asth- ma at all.

It demonstrates that histamine is THE regulator of water metabolism
and
that it directs the subordinate systems that promote water intake and
redistribute the available water around the body, and that it becomes
increasingly active during dehydration.

It's the excessive histamine release in the lungs that causes the
symptoms
of asth- ma. I don't think anyone will disagree with that.

The excessive histamine release is part of the body's drought
management
program and is primarily brought about by dehydration/salt shortage.
It has
been demonstrated in animal studies that when well hydrated histamine
reserves and their rate of production are at minimal levels but when
dehydrated there is a rise in histamine generation.

> >An analysis of how dehydration(and salt shortage) is the root
> >cause of many diseases:
> >
> >Batmanghelidj,F; Pain:A Need for Paradigm Change; Anticancer
> >Research, Vol. 7, No 5B, pages 971-990, September/October 1987.
>
> This article discusses how dehydration is perceived as pain. Once
> again, not a discussion of asth- ma.

It doesn't deal exclusively with asth- ma. It discusses how various
diseases
and pains of the human body are caused by dehydration.

> This research is very controversial, particularly since it studied
> people who were deliberately deprived of water; not ones who had
> access to as much water as they wanted. It in no way makes the
> claim that asth- ma is caused by dehydration. You really need to
> learn how to read scientific papers.

The author of the article was previously the medical officer at a
prison in
Iran. (He, himself, was also a prisoner.) While there, he was amazed
at the
medicinal effects of water on peptic ulcer disease. The patients
hadn't
been deliberately deprived of water, as you say! They had access to
as much
water as they wanted; it's just that they weren't drinking enough of
it and
that's what had caused their ulcers.

After escaping from Iran the author continued his research and
literature
review on the effects of dehydration, and this paper, and others, are
the
result.

What was that you said about learning how to read scientific papers?

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 04 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beaee3$d6bd6c20$1b29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> On 3 Jun 1999 21:09:33 GMT, "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie> wrote:
>
> >There is only one way to cure any disease and that is to find the
> >underlying cause and take steps to eliminate it.
> >
> >The treatment of disease by the suppression of symptons with
> >synthetic drugs rather than the removal of the underlying cause is
> >certain, in time, to generate additional complications.
> >
> >It is to the benefit of Western capitalist medicine to "treat" all
> >the chronic diseases at great cost, while studiously avoiding the
> >simple cures that may exist. If an advance in medicine represents
> >a significant threat to the profits of the medical establishment
> >that advance will be ignored, downplayed or attacked by them.
> >
> >ASTH- MA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO CHRONIC
> >DEHYDRATION AND SALT SHORTAGE.
>
> Care to post your research data?
>

The role of histamine as the body's water metabolism regulator:

Batmanghelidj, F; Neurotransmitter Histamine:An Alternative
Viewpoint;
Third Interscience World Conference on Inflammation, Antiheumatics,
Analgesics, Immunomodulators; Book of Abstracts, page 37(A137), Monte
Carlo
15-18 March 1989.

An analysis of how dehydration(and salt shortage) is the root cause
of many
diseases:

Batmanghelidj,F; Pain:A Need for Paradigm Change; Anticancer
Research, Vol.
7, No 5B, pages 971-990, September/October 1987.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: How To Cure Asth- ma
Date: 03 Jun 1999
Message-ID: <01beae08$45995280$3929...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

There is only one way to cure any disease and that is to find the
underlying cause and take steps to eliminate it.

The treatment of disease by the suppression of symptons with
synthetic
drugs rather than the removal of the underlying cause is certain, in
time,
to generate additional complications.

It is to the benefit of Western capitalist medicine to "treat" all
the
chronic diseases at great cost, while studiously avoiding the simple
cures
that may exist. If an advance in medicine represents a significant
threat
to the profits of the medical establishment that advance will be
ignored,
downplayed or attacked by them.

ASTH- MA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO CHRONIC
DEHYDRATION AND
SALT SHORTAGE.

There is no money to be made in selling water and salt, which is why
you
don't hear much about it.

WATER
Adequate daily water intake is essential for the correct functioning
of the
lungs. Efficient respiration depends on there being enough moisture
present
in the alveoli (air sacs at the end of the bronchioles) so that they
can
contract and push out the air. Under normal circumstances the lungs
expel
about a quart of water a day in the form of water vapor in the
exhaled air.

Many people are chronically dehydrated. They drink lots of coffee,
tea,
sodas, juices, alcohol but very little water. These other fluids will
never
fully satisfy the body's water requirements and many will make you
even
more dehydrated.

HISTAMINE
It has recently become scientifically clear that histamine is the
body's
water metabolism regulator. It will become increasingly active and
its rate
of production will increase when the body is dehydrated. Excessive
histamine release in the lung tissue also happens to be the primary
agent
that brings about inflammation of the airways and causes the
bronchioles to
constrict. Bronchial constriction is a natural manouver to limit any
further loss of water so that what little water the body has can be
rationed and made available for more critical functions.

SALT
Salt is the third most vital substance for the survival of the human
body
(after oxygen and water). Salt and water are closely linked. There is
a
very critical balance between the water held inside the cells of the
body
and the water held outside the cells. Salt helps regulate these
amounts by
the process of osmosis.

Salt shortage will upset the osmotic balance and can be very symptom
producing for asth- matics because it can lead to excessive histamine
release
in the lungs. Salt also helps break up any mucus that develops--this
is why
phlegm tastes salty. If a person is salt-deficient the mucus will
tend to
stay put and hamper breathing.

TRIGGERS
Why do allergens, irritants and viral infections appear to be
triggers for
asth- ma? Because histamine, apart from its role as water metabolism
regulator, also has responsibilities in the defense of the body
against
foreign matter and viruses. Normally these actions of the immune
system are
held at unexaggerated or imperceptive levels but during prolonged
dehydration/salt shortage the increased histamine production for
water
regulation will tend to stimulate the immune system to release
histamine
that has been held in storage for its own purposes. It is really the
prolonged dehydration/salt shortage which causes the immune system to
become hypersensitive to normally harmless substances like pollen or
dust.

Attacks when exercising are triggered to limit excess water loss
during
increased respiration.

Stress will accelerate dehydration and can trigger attacks.

There may be a genetic predisposition to asth- ma but that's all it
is--a
predisposition. If these other factors (persistent dehydration/salt
shortage) do not come into play the person with the predisposition
will not
develop the disease.

RECOMMENDATIONS
The average person should drink at least ten 8-oz glasses of water
per day
and continue this every day of their lives. Caffeine and alcohol
intake
should be limited, particularly in the initial stages but if they are
consumed extra water should be taken to compensate. (Orange juice, if
consumed, should be limited to one glass per day. It is loaded with
potassium which can increase histamine release in the lungs.)

More water needs to be consumed when it's hot, when exercising and
when
under stress.

The best times to drink water are a half hour before meals and two
and a
half hours after meals.

It can take a few weeks before a chronically dehydrated body becomes
properly hydrated.

A half a teaspoon of salt should be added to the daily diet for every
10
glasses of water consumed. This is essential. If you increase your
water
intake but not you salt intake your asth- ma might not go away.

A pinch of salt on the tongue after drinking two glasses of water
will help
stop any mild wheezing from developing into an asth- ma attack.

PRECAUTIONS
You should continue taking your medication as normal while at the
same time
increasing your water/salt intake. Only reduce medication if and when
symptoms subside and under the supervision of your doctor.

Older people with damaged kidneys need to be a little more careful
about
increasing water intake and may need to consult their doctor first.

http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: testttttttt
Date: 30 May 1999
Message-ID: <01beaaf4$28b14180$7b29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: alabama.test

yes

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: testtt
Date: 30 May 1999
Message-ID: <01beaaf4$615bc960$7b29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: uk.test

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: test2
Date: 30 May 1999
Message-ID: <01beaaf7$c0aa8fc0$7b29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: uk.test

Has anyone seen my washboard?

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: The Water & Salt Cure
Date: 23 Apr 1999
Message-ID: <01be8de0$f6e758e0$0b29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

Asth- ma is a physiological adaptation of the body to dehydration and
salt
shortage.

This is the view of Dr F Batmanghelidj. He has written a book called
"Your
Body's Many Cries For Water".

Here is a review of the book:
http://www.borderlands.com/yourbody.htm

Here is a link to the doctor's website:
http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Summary of Y2K failures for April 1
Date: 02 Apr 1999
Message-ID: <01be7d1f$cc9f4240$5129...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: comp.software.year-2000

Elevators have started falling from the sky in Tokoyo and New York.

> Can anyone point me to a list of Y2K related failures that occurred
> today, April 1, 1999?
>
> How serious are the failures thus far?
>
> Michael P. McCutcheon

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: British Bleach?
Date: 24 Mar 1999
Message-ID: <01be764c$4abf5dc0$7829...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism

Does anyone in Britain know of a brand of bleach suitable for the
purification of water?

Most bleaches are fragranced and/or contain detergents,soaps etc. I
did
find one with just sodium hypochlorite listed on the bottle (Parozone
Power
Bleach) but when I wrote to the manufacturers they said it wasn't
suitable.

Anyone know?

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: How to Cure Asth- ma
Date: 22 Oct 1998
Message-ID: <01bdfdfa$474e3140$7729...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

All asth- ma medication only treats symptoms.

If you want to cure asth- ma you have to address the root cause of
the
problem.

ASTH- MA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND
SALT
SHORTAGE.

The lungs need an adequate and regular supply of water to function
correctly. If they don't get it problems can arise. Water is needed
to keep
the airways moist so that they won't dry out during the act of
breathing.
The equivalent of a few glasses of water is used up by the lungs over
the
course of a day. When the body becomes dehydrated it will attempt to
preserve and ration what little water it has. Since a lot of water is
lost
from the lungs in the form of water vapour in the exhaled air it will
limit
this loss by causing bronchial constriction. The agent which brings
this
about is histamine, which is the body's water metabolism regulator.
(Histamine also has other functions but the medical community is
largely
ignorant of its water regulatory role.)

Salt shortage is equally symptom-producing for asth- matics. Salt
shortage
can cause increased histamine production in the lung tissue, leading
to
bronchial constriction. Salt is also needed to break up the mucus
which
develops to protect the lungs from drying out. Salt makes the mucus
more
watery so that it can be more easily expelled from the lungs--this is
why
phlegm tastes salty. The mucus tends to stay put if there are
insufficient
reserves of salt to break it up. This mucus build-up will lead to
congestion and increased difficulty in breathing.

All asth- matics should ensure that they consume adequate quantities
of water
and salt. At least 2 litres (quarts) of water should be consumed per
day
(coffee, tea, sodas, alcohol etc don't count). The best times to
drink
water are half an hour before meals and a couple of hours after them,
as
well as first thing in the morning and last thing at night. For every
2
litres of water consumed, 3 grams of salt (about half a teaspoon)
should be
added to the diet.

The following is a link to Dr F Batmanghelidj's website:
http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Water & Salt--not drugs
Date: 02 Sep 1998
Message-ID: <01bdd6b0$596632e0$4d29...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> Can you provide supporting references (ie. peer reviewed medical
> research)?
>
> What you are saying is so far out of line with what has been
> scientifically demonstrated to be the disease process of asth- ma
> that I find it hard to give it credibility.
>
> Do you have any source materials that I can reference?
>

The main proponent of the link between dehydration and disease states
is
Dr. F. Batmanghelidj. In 1983 he set up the Foundation for the Simple
in
Medicine to foster research on the topic and evaluate recent
scientific
literature. In 1989, 1990 and 1991 the results were published in
annual
volumes entitled "Science in Medicine Simplified". He has also
written a
book called "Your Body's Many Cries For Water", which is probably the
best
starting point. Try one of the following addresses to get hold of
"Science
in Medicine Simplified":

Global Health Solutions
P.O. Box 3189
Falls Church, VA 22043

F. Batmanghelidj, M.D.
2146 Kings Garden Way
Falls Church, VA 22043

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Water & Salt--not drugs
Date: 01 Sep 1998
Message-ID: <01bdd5f6$dd0b0540$6829...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> The statments made below are making huge suppositions some of
> which could be dangerous. While I am not an opponent of holistic
> medications, I caution anyone who is contemplating their use. I
> have seen at least one incident that comes to mind where the use of
> a
> herbal medicine "Carly Duck Root" was the direct contributor to the
> death of the individual.

I don't know how you can call water and salt "medications", holistic
or
otherwise. They are the second and third most important elements to
the
survival of the human body.

> To propose that the medical community doesn't fully understand
> the vital roles of water and salt in the human body is sheer
> idiocy. Especially by prosposing that you do. If you wander
> through a
> hospital supply room you will oft see things like N/S (normal
> saline) in many different forms.

It's sad but true. Dehydration plays a large part in the emergence of
many
conditions and diseases including peptic ulcers, high blood pressure,
rheumatoid arthritis, high cholestorel levels.

>
> BULLPUCKIES!!!! I drink on average 2-5 litres of Gatorade
> each and everyday (no crap here ppl, I love the stuff, and it's
> great in the gym). I know many other asth- ma sufferes who would
> say the same thing. My asth- ma has gotten worse, not better, but
> according to you I should have the lungs of a teenager not a
> middleaged man (I'm 32).

In general, drinking manufactured beverages cannot fully satisfy the
water
needs of the body. Maybe if you switched to water your asth- ma might
improve.

> Now we get into the dangerous advice. I have never heard of a
> "salt-free" diet, however if someone who's physcian has them on a
> low-salt diet reads this tripe and follows it you could kill them.
> Are you forgetting Mr. Hobbs, that there are things in the
> body besides the lungs? Important things, like, let's say THE
> HEART? Many ppl are on low sodium diets because of their blood
> pressure and the associated risks of cardiac disease that follows
> suit. What about ppl on prednisore (which causes a retention of
> salt in the tissue (and an increase in blood pressure).

Salt does not cause high blood pressure. Dehydration does. When the
body is
dehydrated it begins to retain salt. Salt retention occurs so that
water
can be kept in the body. The salt helps filter the available water
and
flush it back into the cells. High blood pressure should be primarily
treated with an increase in daily water intake(provided the kidneys
are
functioning correctly). What do doctors do? They give people with
high
blood pressure diuretics which causes further water/salt loss. The
patient
ends up even more dehydrated and his blood pressure rises even more.

> >Precautions
> >Long term dehydration can cause kidney damage. You have to make
> >sure an increase in water intake will produce an increase in
> >urine. Monitor for a few days how much water you normally drink
> >and the resultant urine output. Then for a few days add a couple
> >of glasses a day and see if urine output increases. If it does
> >your kidneys are ok and you can drink the required amount of
> >water.
>
> You're talking here as if the ppl you're hoping follow your
> advice have been dehydrated for years!!

Many people are permanently in a state of semi-dehydration and have
been
for many years. They drink coffee, tea, sodas, alcohol but very
little
water. The comment about making sure the kidneys are functioning
correctly
is mainly directly at older people.

> >You should continue taking your medication as normal, while at the
> >same time increasing your water and salt intake, as necessary. It
> >can take weeks before the body becomes properly hydrated. Only
> >start reducing medication if and when the symptoms start
> >subsiding.
>
> That's a HUGE if, and advising someone to cease medication
> (especially oral steroids) without consulting their physcian
> borders on the criminal.

It's not a huge if or a tiny if. It's just an if. If you see no
improvement
in your condition you carry on with your medication as normal and
you're no
worse off than you were before.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Water & Salt--not drugs
Date: 31 Aug 1998
Message-ID: <01bdd52f$d7b6c2e0$2729...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> > A minimum of 2 litres(quarts) of water should be consumed per
> > day(of course coffee,tea,colas,alcohol etc don't count)
>
> Why don't they count?
>

Although these beverages contain water, they also contain dehydrating
agents(caffeine/alcohol). You end up more dehydrated after drinking
them.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Water & Salt--not drugs
Date: 31 Aug 1998
Message-ID: <01bdd47e$14e8a280$012d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

I would like to repeat some of the things I have posted previously
and add
a few extra comments.
* * * *

The medical community of today happen to be totally ignorant of the
true
causes of asth- ma. They do not fully understand the vital roles
water and
salt play in the human body.

All asth- ma medication only treats the symptoms without getting to
the root
cause of the problem. Hence, asth- ma is never "cured". It is only
"managed".

ASTH- MA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND
SALT
SHORTAGE.

Asth- ma is characterised by bronchial constriction and excessive
mucus
production. Bronchial constriction is caused by histamine release in
the
lung tissue which is primarily caused by dehydration and/or salt
shortage.
Mucus forms when there is not enough water present in the lungs to
keep the
airways moist. The mucus will tend to stay put if there is not enough
salt
to break it up so that it can be more easily expelled from the lungs.

Recommendations
A minimum of 2 litres(quarts) of water should be consumed per day(of
course
coffee,tea,colas,alcohol etc don't count).This quantity should be
increased
if it is hot/humid, if you are engaged in above average physical
activity
or if you are under stress. However, don't overdo it and drown
yourself in
water. The best times to drink water are half an hour before meals
and a
couple of hours after them.

For every 2 litres of water you drink per day you should add 3 grams
of
salt to your diet. Salt-free diets are ridiculous. (Salt(sodium) is
the
third most important element to the human body.)

Precautions
Long term dehydration can cause kidney damage. You have to make sure
an
increase in water intake will produce an increase in urine. Monitor
for a
few days how much water you normally drink and the resultant urine
output.
Then for a few days add a couple of glasses a day and see if urine
output
increases. If it does your kidneys are ok and you can drink the
required
amount of water.

You should continue taking your medication as normal, while at the
same
time increasing your water and salt intake, as necessary. It can take
weeks
before the body becomes properly hydrated. Only start reducing
medication
if and when the symptoms start subsiding.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Re: Asth- ma and Dehydration
Date: 24 Aug 1998
Message-ID: <01bdcf08$eb7f04e0$022d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

> I suggest that you review some better sources. His post was not
> 'informative' since it contained basic factual errors (for example
> he thinks that hisstamine is a nuerotransmitter). He also thinks
> that histamine reduces water loss, when in fact it increases the
> loss of water.

Actually, histamine is a neurotransmitter. Histamine release does
reduce
water loss from the lungs. It is a simple natural manoeuver to
preserve the
body's water in times of dehydration.

> In fact dehydration is considered to be _caused_ by asth- ma.
>

What? The only thing that causes dehydration is not drinking enough
water!
You have a tendency to get everything backwards.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Asth- ma and Dehydration
Date: 23 Aug 1998
Message-ID: <01bdced7$d5066ae0$ee13...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

A few days ago I posted about the link between dehydration and asth-
ma. Most
who responded dismissed it and thought it was a crackpot idea. There
follows some further details on the link.

Connection Between Asth- ma and Dehydration
Water is needed in the lungs to keep the air passages moist and
prevent
them from drying up when air goes in and comes out. The
neurotransmitter
histamine, which causes the bronchioles in the lungs to constrict, is
the
main trigger for asth- ma. Histamine release in the lungs is the
body's
primary mechanism for stopping water loss from that area and occurs
when
the body becomes dehydrated. It has been shown that hisamine
production
will decrease with an increase in daily water intake. At least 2
litres of
water should be consumed a day.

There is a very delicate balance between the water and salt levels in
and
around the cells of the body, and salt intake also needs to be
addressed.

Salt Shortage
Salt shortage in the body can also be a major contributing factor to
asth- ma
attacks. Salt is not only a natural antihistamine but it is also
secreted
to break up the mucus that develops in the lungs during the initial
stages
of asth- ma. The salt makes the mucus more watery so that it can
easily be
expelled from the lungs. If there are low salt levels present the
mucus
tends to stay put and makes breathing difficult.The situation becomes
worse
during dehydration, when the body begins to retain salt and there is
even
less of it present to break up the mucus. Hence, a few grams of salt
should
be added to the daily diet. (This level of salt intake is perfectly
safe in
a well hydrated body.)

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Asth- ma--the REAL cause
Date: 20 Aug 1998
Message-ID: <01bdcc84$efe2a7c0$0f2d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: a.s.a

I have just read a book called "Your Body's Many Cries For Water" by
Dr. F.
Batmanghelidj. According to him, medical professionals of today do
not
understand the vital roles of water in the human body.

The root cause of asth- ma (and many other conditions) is
DEHYDRATION. Asth- ma
is not a "disease" that gets "cured". It is a physiological
adaptation of
the body to dehydration. An increase in daily water intake will
eliminate
asth- ma.

The doctor recommends the following:
-- Drink at least eight 8-oz glasses of water a day (tea, coffee,
alcohol,
colas don't count because they cause further dehydration of the
body).
--Increase salt intake to a few grams a day (about half a teaspoon).
--Don't drink more than one glass of orange juice a day (it has high
potassium levels).

I hope this information is of benefit to some of you out there.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: morbidelli
Date: 13 Aug 1998
Message-ID: <01bdc6f6$480e67c0$262d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: aus.test

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Who is the bull goose looney?
Date: 13 Aug 1998
Message-ID: <01bdc6f5$dd1267a0$262d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: alt.just.testing

gggggg

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: FS:Live Video
Date: 19 Jul 1998
Message-ID: <01bdb337$95cc2880$312d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: alabama.test

Recorded 31 May 1998 at the Olympia Theatre, Dublin, Ireland.
Only broadcast on Irish tv.
65 minutes + a 20 minute pre-concert interview with Billy.
Videos only available in PAL (European tv standard).

Songs:
c

Europe:UK#15 inc postage
USA :$30 inc shipping
Cash only.

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: horray!
Date: 19 Jul 1998
Message-ID: <01bdb33d$6ada24a0$312d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: uk.test

wwww

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: dddddddddddddddddd
Date: 19 Jul 1998
Message-ID: <01bdb33f$e2aad540$312d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: iol.test

dddddddd

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Yes
Date: 13 Jul 1997
Message-ID: <01bc9004$4f70e940$072d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: uk.test

Yes

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: F.S. Stong Concert Video
Date: 03 Jul 1997
Message-ID: <01bc8836$0d301e00$172d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: uk.test

The concert was recorded in Oslo, Norway in 1993 for television
broadcast.
Total Running Time: 1 hour and 43 minutes.

Stong plays the following:Case Studies, Field Support, Please, Is It
Really,
Hickey, Hey Mister, Mouse.

This video is currently only available in PAL (Europe+Australia).

If you would like to order a copy please send cash or an IMO for UK17
to:

Tim Poole
345 jilop PL
Tidley

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>
Subject: Have you seen my washboard?
Date: 03 Jul 1997
Message-ID: <01bc87af$cf6ec160$072d...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
Organization: Ireland On-Line
Newsgroups: alt.alt.test

If so, where is it?

nanotech@trollretrovirusau

unread,

May 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/18/00

dho...@iol.ie (David Hobbs)
tom_n...@my-deja.com (Tom Newton)

ab...@iol.ie Ireland On-Line
ab...@deja.com

"there is a cure for asthma"

"The Water & Salt Cure"

"How To Cure Asthma"
David Hobbs Tom Newton

"The theory hasn't been killed by an ugly fact."

David Hobbs Tom Newton

______________________________________________________________________
_____
dho...@iol.ie tom_n...@my-deja.com dho...@iol.ie
tom_n...@my-deja.com
tom_n...@my-deja.com dho...@iol.ie tom_n...@my-deja.com
dho...@iol.ie

Buteyko BUTEYKO Buteyko BUTEYKO Buteyko BUTEYKO Buteyko BUTEYKO
Buteyko

dho...@iol.ie tom_n...@my-deja.com dho...@iol.ie
tom_n...@my-deja.com
tom_n...@my-deja.com dho...@iol.ie tom_n...@my-deja.com
dho...@iol.ie
______________________________________________________________________
_____

From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Thanks to y'all I knew enough to turn down Alpine offer
Date: 04 May 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <8er0g9$san$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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In article <8eqsh5$q3k$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>,
"cyeats" wrote:

> Bullocks in the UK means BS in the US.

No, it doesn't. You're talking utter bollocks.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: asth- ma and chronic candida syndrome
Date: 03 May 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <8eo27l$j17$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> On Mon, 01 May 2000 21:30:19 GMT, tom_n...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >I assume you agree that in some individuals dehydration can cause
> >bronchospasm and excess mucus production. If you say that these
> >don't have anything to do with reality, then I don't know what
> >does.
>
> Citations please.

A study last year on the effects of dehydration on exercise-induced
asth- ma
found that dehydration can cause bronchospasm and loss of lung
function:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/health/daily/june99/dehydration4.
htm

> By who? Do you even know what the functions of histamine are?

Histamine has several functions in the body. It is excess histamine
release
in the lungs that causes bronchospasm. Several animal studies have
shown that
dehydration can raise the rate of production and activity of
histamine, while
rehydration lowers them.

> Wrong. Both the early phase and the late phase allergic responses
> operate concurrently.

So, the early phase response doesn't precede the late phase one? They
were
just given those names for fun, were they?

> It is generally recommended that you learn something about the
> disease in question before you start announcing 'cures.'

You really need to learn about the effects of dehydration on the
lungs and
respiration. You can't go around calling something quackery when you
know
nothing about it.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: asth- ma and chronic candida syndrome
Date: 01 May 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> Wrong. We are hostile to quack theories.
>
> All you have to do is demonstrate that your theory has anything at
> all to do with reality. Can you do this?

I assume you agree that in some individuals dehydration can cause
bronchospasm and excess mucus production. If you say that these don't
have
anything to do with reality, then I don't know what does.

> >Histamine is one of the chemicals responsible for airway
> >inflammation.
>
> Wrong. Histamine is associated with the 'early phase' allergic
> response and inflammation is caused by the 'late phase' allergic
> response. Inflammation is caused by different mediator chemicals
> altogether.

Histamine is classified as one of the the inflammatory mediators.

It is true that it is part of the early phase response, but there
won't be a
late phase response unless an early phase response has already
occurred. The
mediators released in the early phase cause further ones to be
released later
on, eventually leading to inflammation.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re:asth- ma and chronic candida syndrome
Date: 01 May 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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hacky wrote:
>Most asth- ma and asth- ma symptoms have absolutely nothing to do
>with dehydration.

It's strange the way some people are so hostile to the idea that
dehydration
can have anything to do with asth- ma.

The airways have to remain moist in order to function properly. To
stop them
from drying out during dehydration extra mucus is secreted, too much
of which
tends to clog up the lungs.

Dehydration can cause bronchospasm. Water shortage in the body can
result in
excess histamine to be released in the lungs, which leads to
bronchial
constriction. This is a natural manoeuver by a dehydrated body to
limit any
further loss of water from the lungs, in the form of water vapor in
the
exhaled air.

Histamine is one of the chemicals responsible for airway
inflammation. Excess
histamine release from chronic dehydration can play a part in the
emergence
of this inflammation.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: asth- ma and chronic candida syndrome
Date: 29 Apr 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <8edis4$ep9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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<LIDN4.25637$MB.5...@news6.giganews.com>
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Eric Jarvis wrote:

> tom_n...@my-deja.com wrote:

> > It is not altogether correct to state that there is no cure for
> > asth- ma.
> >
> > Some people have been cured of asth- ma by the simple act of
> > increasing their daily water (and salt) intake.
> >
> > For many people chronic dehydration can be the root cause of
> > their breathing difficulties.
> >
> > http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm
> >
>
> for a start that wouldn't be a cure for asth- ma...it is a cure for
> dehydration that can reduce breathing difficulties

If, after increased daily water intake, an individual's asth- ma
disappears and
never returns, then that person's asth- ma has been cured.

> difficulty in breathing is a SYMPTOM of asth- ma...it may be the
> thing that makes you realise you have the condition...but it is
> only a symptom...fixing a symptom does not get rid of the cause

For some of those with a predisposition to asth- ma, chronic
dehydration can be
the factor that actually causes the disease to manifest itself. It
follows
that correcting the dehydration can, in some cases, reverse the
disease
process.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: asth- ma and chronic candida syndrome
Date: 27 Apr 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <8e8fg0$pt7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <2XvN4.24795$MB.5...@news6.giganews.com>
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> Basically this is because There Is No Cure For Asth- ma. Anybody
> who claims that they can cure asth- ma is a quack.

It is not altogether correct to state that there is no cure for asth-
ma.

Some people have been cured of asth- ma by the simple act of
increasing their
daily water (and salt) intake.

For many people chronic dehydration can be the root cause of their
breathing
difficulties.

http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Live Chat Event with Kathryn Shafer
Date: 15 Apr 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <8d8mb5$uul$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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<8d0lc0$3eh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
<auv7fs0bed2qvm5k5...@4ax.com>
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> Again, as I have already stated that anything that demonstrates a
> measurable physiological effect is a drug and cannot be considered
> a placebo.

A typical drug trial would disprove your notion that placebos can't
cause
physiological changes. The group getting the placebo almost always
show an
objective improvement i.e. physically measurable and completely
independent
of their perceptions.

> Actually, you really do need to read up on this.

If it's the sort of stuff you seem to be reading up on it, I think
I'll give
it a miss.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Live Chat Event with Kathryn Shafer
Date: 13 Apr 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> Actually, the placebo effect has more to do with altering patient's
> perceptions of disease severity than it does actual disease
> severity. The placebo effect does not affect disease processes.
> (If it did then - by definition - it cannot be the placebo effect).
> If you really want to understand what the placebo effect is I can
> point you to some actual scientific references.

I don't know where you got the idea that the placebo effect is purely
subjective and only relates to a person's perception of disease
severity. The
reality is that the placebo effect can cause objective improvements
and can
"affect disease processes", sometimes quite dramatically. This is
very basic
stuff. I'm surprised you don't know about it.

> And your comment about the effects of drugs is completely wrong.
> When the drugs are tested they are compared against placebo in
> order to ensure that this does not occur.

If, in a study, the group getting the drug shows an (objective)
improvement
of 40% and the placebo group one of 20%, it can be assumed that half
the
improvement from the drug was not due to the drug itself but to the
belief
the receipients had in it.

This just goes to show the effect the mind can have on the course of
a
disease.

> If you are going to try to discuss the placebo effect, I would
> advise that you learned something about it first.

ditto

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Live Chat Event with Kathryn Shafer
Date: 12 Apr 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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"Randy Cameron" wrote:

> PRxCommunity wrote in message <8cteha$pb5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >Kathryn Shafer, Ph.D.
> >Healing Asth- ma with the Mind
>
> It just never stops does it. The sad thing is that this person
> will probably never take another look at this NG, probably never
> read a single post, just spending their time imagining how they'll
> retire to the Caribbean with their newfound wealth. Is this the
> kind of crap I'm supposed to be tolerant of?

What's wrong with trying to use the mind to heal the body? The mind
can be a
very powerful weapon against illness. It is well known that attitudes
about a
disease, belief in a treatment, emotional states, stress levels etc
can
affect the course of a disease.

The placebo effect shows that thought processes alone can have a very
real
physiological effect on the body. A significant proportion of the
effects of
drugs has nothing to do with their pharmacological action but to the
belief
the patient has in them. As someone once said: "According to your
faith be it
done unto you."

Because the connections between mind and body aren't very well
understood,
medical science tends to look down its nose at the placebo effect.
Even
though there might be an objective improvement in a person's
condition it is
discounted because "it's only the placebo effect".

Any techniques that allow a person to harness the power of their own
mind to
help heal themselves can only be a good thing.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: I am trying a new homeophatic med. for asth- ma..!
Date: 26 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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Colin Campbell wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:50:12 -0500, "CBI"

Colin Campbell wrote:

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In article <38D060DB...@flash.net>,
iklel wrote:
> OK OK OK, the reason there are more cases of asth- ma as a result

> of the modern practice of vaccinating children against "harmless"
> childhood diseases (such as whooping cough, diphtheria, polio,
> tetanus, pertussis, hemophilus influenze, hepetitis B) is that

> before vaccines, children who would have had asth- ma died early

> from the nasty diseases that we didn't know how to prevent or
> treat, so naturally the incidence would be lower. Tom probably
> needs words of one syllable so, if there were 10 children (before

> vaccines) and four would have gotten asth- ma and all ten got six

> or seven nasty childhood diseases, then five died, of which three

> were the ones who would have had asth- ma later on, ergo, only 5
> living children of whom only 1 has asth- ma, which is an incidence

> of only 10% compared to an incidence of 20% of the kids had all
> been vaccinated and lived.

You are assuming that vaccines were responsible for the decline in
death
rates from infectious diseases.

The fact is that 90% of the decline occurred BEFORE vaccination even
commenced.

The numbers you are using to try to illustrate your point are totally

ludicrous. 40% get asth- ma and 50% die of childhood diseases! It's a

wonder
the human race didn't become extinct long ago.

I don't think you have a firm grip on reality.

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In article <8ao9vl$2eo$1...@sun-cc204.lboro.ac.uk>,

Viva America!

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In article <00cc81c0...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com>,
Jo Firey wrote:

> old I had full blown Asth- ma.

> The idea that immunizations cause Asth- ma is too absurd.

No one said that if you're not immunized that you won't get asth- ma

and that
if you are immunized that you will get it. Rather, childhood
immunization may

significantly increase the chances of developing asth- ma.

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From: tom_n...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Is Modern Medicine Causing Asth- ma?
Date: 14 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <8akl9b$4kd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
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I
"CBI" wrote:

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"CBI" wrote:

http://www.909shot.com/dimedia.htm

http://www.unc.edu/~aphillip/www/vaccine/dvm1.htm

In article <38C5D348...@ieee.org>,

Colin Campbell wrote:

hacky wrote in article
<hacky-16129...@hdsl106.sttl.uswest.net>...

http://whale.to/Gastaldo.htm

Howard Belasco wrote in article

http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

Lisa DeSavage wrote in article

Don Elton wrote in article
<Pine.LNX.4.10.991206...@cbbs.cts.com>...

Lisa DeSavage wrote in article

hacky wrote:
>
> You are as mad as a hatter.
>

You are as cracked as a goat.

Alvin D. Hofer wrote in article

http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm

From: "David Hobbs" <dho...@iol.ie>

Subject: Re: Chronic disease or chronic excuse?
Date: 06 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bf3f8c$b7f94040$5429...@dhobbs.iol.ie>
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Colin Campbell wrote in article

<u4tl4soqfv2dkoq6s...@4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:18:53 -0500, "Alvin D. Hofer"

> wrote:
>
> >I wonder how many diseases have been cured in the past forty
> >years; I mean omitting those that have been quelled by
> >antibiotics?
>
> Smallpox?