your pain is caused form what yoou eat
sharon garland
and yes even medication is your major problem. The chemicals to modify food
starch is the same chemical other countries use to kill rodents, no wonder
we are a country of killers.
2/3 of the food in stores wasn't even invented til the 70's an since the
disabilities have gone up 25-30%. So, I have tried many times to get you to
listen, God gave me a miracle an I will share it with whoever WANTS to feel
better, I am off to the beach after I mow an yes I have RA an have had
since 1985, but I am in control not my disease.
Sharon
KrissyJo
>disabilities have gone up 25-30%
SO my grandma that got RA in the 50's was just lucky??????
>So, I have tried many times to get you to
>listen,
No SHaron, you have tried to SELL us something.
>I am off to the beach
See ya!
Keep Smilin'
~krissy
Vist my web page at:
http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html
"The most thoroughly wasted of all days is that
in which one has not laughed." Nicolas Chamfort
MuckEpup
<s...@wfeca.net> writes:
> Why doesn't anyone listen????????? The toxic additives in food , drinks
>and yes even medication is your major problem.
I kept a diary once for about a year writing down exactly what I ate, drank,
how much exercise I had managed, how much sleep I had had, what day of my
monthly cycle it was AND how I felt pain-wise. There was no link between my
pain and anything!
I'm glad you have found something that works for you - but it may not be right
for everybody.
charlotte le fleur
information away. Post it here, and I guarantee that the majority of people on
the NG WILL read it.
Char Le Fleur
denen...@mwci.net
it sound like it's a post- 1970 {when you think 2/3 of the food was
invented}disease. You really do need to read some history of arthritis.
jane
PEDSEC
Persistent isn't she? And yet, she won't post this wonderful information she
has to share with all of us here. Hmmmmm.....wonder why??
Bonnie
Never enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent :o)
Livid101
Christine
>>>The first rule of intergalactic travel:
>>>Never get a cat.
Lynda Gottschalk
always be our own faults ,huh?
Off to the beach...stay there! If you really cared you would post your
wonderful i
news.
Lynmari
Susan N. Dunbar
Sharon:
Have you ever wondered if you might be listened to if you listened to
others?
We are happy for you that you are in control of your RA.
Please let the rest of us be ignorant and control our own selves and
diseases as we choose. You have made your choice. Please allow the
rest of us to make our own choices.
Shanti
Susan
Drijer
No one that is "into" their suffering wants to hear how to get rid of it, they
got the "doubting Thomas" disease too!!
I too avoid the chemicalized foods and my pains have gone away, until I dine
with "friends" and give in to eating regular foods.
We just have to shut up about it, its a waste of time and energy to tell the
"hard core" pain lovers here!
Im happy for you, your happy for me, isnt that enough?
love
bob
> Why doesn't anyone listen????????? The toxic additives in food , drinks
>and yes even medication is your major problem. The chemicals to modify food
>starch is the same chemical other countries use to kill rodents, no wonder
>we are a country of killers.
>2/3 of the food in stores wasn't even invented til the 70's an since the
>disabilities have gone up 25-30%. So, I have tried many times to get you to
>listen, God gave me a miracle an I will share it with whoever WANTS to feel
>better, I am off to the beach after I mow an yes I have RA an have had
>since 1985, but I am in control not my disease.
>Sharon
>
>------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>P
Lynda Gottschalk
I did the no meds, natural route...fetal position in bed for a year. No
thank you.
How dare you act so insufferable as to accuse us of enjoying all this.
We struggle each and every day and most of us I will wager have tried
everything out there to help ourselves. You gotta cure for genetics now
brainchild?
It's not worth my time to continue this. You are simply insulting to say
the least.
Lynmari
John_popovich
As I've said in the past .Just ignore BOB. If what we said didn't
light him up he wouldn't be posting here. It's sad really that a person can
go through life looking for ways to put others down. Thanks for nothing BOB.
Lynda Gottschalk wrote in message
<14340-35...@newsd-213.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Harvey R. Stone
would say not to respond becose well you know why.
Harv
K Stueve
although thats easier said than done. Bob or Robert McFerran was on
another arthritis medical support board and he took it over to the point
that almost everyone left. A shame for those of us who found the
information and support of great help. In any case, he feeds on the
attention by responding to his nonsense; it is a shame that new people
searching for help could possibly get tangled in his jargon, instead of
getting the help that they need.
Kris
"John_popovich" <john_p...@paralynx.com> wrote:"John_popovich"
Lady Andy2
>another arthritis medical support board and he took it over to the point
>that almost everyone left.
Hey, I remember that one! Was on prodigy... sheesh, another good group killed
off. Like you say, ignoring is the best medicine.
Best regards,
LadyAndy2
charlotte le fleur
on the internet. You know "Watch out, you run into some real weirdos on the
Internet!" Well he fits the bill admirably. Char
Denise
Read my previous post as to improvement in my condition. Cleaning up my
diet was one of the things I have done to get relief and I appreciate the
encouragement and information I got from Bob about that.
To deny that attitude plays a part in pain management is not realistic.
There are many things people can learn to do in order to manage pain. Note
here I say "manage".
I am grateful there are some people on this list who encourage me to do
everything I can do to promote a healthier immune system.
I have been held up to ridicule by the "good" doctor who writes to this list
because I didn't just roll over and jeopardize my liver by taking
chemotherapy. I haven't had to use steroids and I pray to G-d I never have
to take them because I am all too aware of their horrible side affects. I
am off NSAIDS because when I used aspirin and then ibuprofen I ended up in
the hospital because of bleeding ulcers and had to get transfusions.
What I have done is to eliminate from my diet every food that is known to
contribute to inflammation. I also take many nutritional supplements--I
sell nothing and I didn't have to put my liver at risk with what I am doing.
My health has improved over the last month and I am feeling good. My most
recent flare affected one finger joint instead of both hands, wrists and
knees. This is exactly what my homeopathic physician predicted would
happen. I took some Orudus for it and was able to use my hands just fine
after I washed my dishes.
My tests show great improvement in that my sed rate is down and my
rheumatoid factor dropped from 349 to 237. My tests are done at Kaiser and
my Kaiser doctor is very impressed with my progress.
Had Bob AKA Drijer not posted to this list I might have waffled and gone a
different route because I was very frightened. Instead I made some drastic
changes in my lifestyle and I am thankful they have so far paid off.
Those of you who enjoy hating Bob are welcome to dwell in a negative mire
but the opinion you hold of him is NOT unanimous and frankly, I'd bet your
attitude doesn't make you feel good either.
I had a whole battery of lab work done and my liver and other organs are
working great because the things I am using to promote my health don't ruin
my organs.
Bob's condition has improved and so has mine. How are you doing?
Denise j.
Lady Andy2
your success will continue and am sure the diet is indeed helping.
That doesn't mean it will help everybody.
The problem with that person is his posts are inconsistant and often
meanspirited and accusatory. Perhaps you haven't been here long enough to see
him at his worst, but we have been, and we won't be fooled into thinking he's a
great guy after seeing him turn so many times.
I'm glad you got the good part... we choose to reject the messenger, but not
the message. Healthy eating is basic good sense for anybody, with or without a
disease.
Now please have the good sense to realize that not everybody will have your
good luck following this regime. We know not every treatment works for every
person, and that includes diet.
Best regards,
LadyAndy2
Denise
I didn't say that it would but then we can't be sure about that, maybe it
would. There are many scientific studies available on the internet
describing the side affects of chemotherapy as well as steroids.
<<The problem with that person is his posts are inconsistant and often
meanspirited and accusatory.>>
Not nearly as mean spirited and accusatory as the responses to his posts.
<<Perhaps you haven't been here long enough to see him at his worst, but we
have been, and we won't be fooled into thinking he's a great guy after
seeing him turn so many times.>>
I have seen many people on this list at what I hope is their worst, in fact
some of them have been rude and boorish towards me in private email.
<<I'm glad you got the good part... >>
Me too since I'm getting better--pretty good for a progressive disease.
<<we choose to reject the messenger, but not the message. >>
It doesn't seem emotionally healthy for people to take so much enjoyment
from trashing another person.
<<Healthy eating is basic good sense for anybody, with or without a
disease.>>
One could hardly know that from reading this list. Almost every post about
diet or nutritional supplementation as treatment for rheumatoid arthritis
gets piled on.
<<Now please have the good sense to realize that not everybody will have
your good luck following this regime. We know not every treatment works for
every person, and that includes diet.>>
I beg your pardon, I had good sense before I found this list. I am doing
far more than just changing my diet. I have learned a lot about nutritional
supplements, thanks, Cush. I was treated by a homeopathic doctor and have
gotten advice from a naturopath also.
I came to this list because it is a support list for people with arthritis.
I was not looking for sympathy for being sick. I am seeking solutions and
apparently some of them are helping my body heal.
I will continue to post my experience to this list. I am not here to fight
with anyone. I have no need to convince people to do what I'm doing. I
will merely report what is happening with me as it relates to rheumatoid
arthritis and the other arthritic problems I have.
Regards,
Denise J.
Ps. It is my new policy to report all private hate mail to the sender's
ISP.
Lynda Gottschalk
into the sunset toether. Just don't tell me that I am causing my own
illness. And I can print GOD, because he is there for me every single
day of my life, and is far more important in the course of my disease,
no matter how it goes, than what I put in my mouth. As a matter of fact
to quote Jesus, it is not a matter of what a man puts into his mouth
that makes him unclean, but what comes out of it.It is NOT that you hold
a different theory of treatment that I do , it is that you persist in
putting me down for mine. I have had ups and downs, right now is a down.
Which may account for my sensitivity in responding to the attack. How
can you support a man who attacks others?
Lynmari
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars."
Oscar Wilde
http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari
DCCDGriggs
and only recently deciding to post some things right now, have found that the
only ones that are attacking is the ones who don't want to hear anything about
diet.
What bob and denise and sharon are saying to you is not attacking you or your
arthritis. Granted, they have said some things that they shouldn't have, but
that was said in retaliation to your attack.
Please, lets stop the attacks right now, both sides, and keep an open mind
about what is being said.
These people are not just saying to eat sensably, but to omit certain things
from your diet, adding supplements, changing everything, and not just for a few
weeks.
for those of you that say you have tried this, take an honest look at what you
have done and if you can say that during the time you tried this nutrition
approach you did not eat any form of sugar, canned foods, packaged foods, diet
foods, diary, and you did this for at least a year, then maybe this approach
doesn't work for you.
But then again, maybe Denise is right in that the drugs might be hindering the
healing process of changing your diet.
Rusty
KrissyJo
>>I thank G-d that Bob was on this list when I came looking for answers.
I thanked God the day Bob said he was leaving. But I think he lied.
>To deny that attitude plays a part in pain management is not realistic.
Atittude is major part of pain management!
>
>I have been held up to ridicule by the "good" doctor who writes to this list
>because I didn't just roll over and jeopardize my liver by taking
>chemotherapy.
And I have been held to ridicule by your friend Bob for not choosing his way of
treatment.
>I
>am off NSAIDS because when I used aspirin and then ibuprofen I ended up in
>the hospital because of bleeding ulcers and had to get transfusions.
Me too.
>My health has improved over the last month and I am feeling good.
So has mine, and I am feeling good!
>My tests show great improvement in that my sed rate is down
My sed rate is not only down, but it is normal!
>Those of you who enjoy hating Bob are welcome to dwell in a negative mire
>but the opinion you hold of him is NOT unanimous and frankly, I'd bet your
>attitude doesn't make you feel good either.
>
>
After the things Bob has said to this group a negative mire is too good for
him! My attitude makes me feel great!
>I had a whole battery of lab work done and my liver and other organs are
>working great because the things I am using to promote my health don't ruin
>my organs.
>
Well, gosh. I take all those "organ ruining things" and I just had a bunch of
lab work two weeks ago. Ya know what? My levels are all perfect.
>
>Bob's condition has improved and so has mine. How are you doing?
>
Great, thanks for asking!
So, Denise, I am not sure how you can say that your treatment is better than
mine. They both work for us. Thats all that counts.
Kitty Kelly
We can be sure diet doesn't work for everyone because I TRIED IT AND I
GOT WORSE!!!!!
I would never push my treatment on anyone or insist that 'my way' was
the 'right way'. Everyones body is different and reacts differently to
drugs, supplements and foods. If I ever find something that works for
me I will share the information and leave it at that.
At this point it appears your problem might be a LACK of drugs as in
tranquilzers so you can calm down and stop being so defensive. Enjoy
your good fortune.
Kitty
Denise
It is difficult to see how someone mentioning a television show that
addressed the emotional and psychological component of chronic illness and
pain as being a direct attack on anyone. Just because someone threatens an
idea you have doesn't mean they are are attacking you. The center of the
solar system is the sun and not any one person on this list.
As the venom and attacks spewed forth against Bob I was surprised he was as
polite as he was.
I write G-d out of respect for my G-d. It is not because of any lack of
respect for your version of G-d. It is none of your business what my
religious affiliation is. It is rude and boorish to attack other peoples
religious practices. I would be absolutely lost with out the love and
protection of a Power Greater than myself. This is not something I will
debate.
I will, however, pray for you and hope that your pain and hyper-sensitivity
will abate.
Regards,
Denise J.
KrissyJo
>Just because someone threatens an
>idea you have doesn't mean they are are attacking you.
No, but saying that we are all addicted to pain killers was an attack. Saying I
sounded like a dirty whore was an attack. He has attacked us many times, maybe
you just didnt read those posts?
>As the venom and attacks spewed forth against Bob I was surprised he was as
>polite as he was.
He was just getting back what he spewed. (is that a respew?)
Keep Smilin'
~Krissy
Denise
GOT WORSE!!!!!>>
No you didn't. I have read your posts. Giving up this food or that food
and taking this or that supplement for a month or two is not the same thing
I am doing. I am doing ALL of the following.
I got homeopathic treatment, eliminated all foods connected with
contributing to inflammation and I am taking glucosamine sulfate,
chondroitin sulfate, cat's claw, mullein, bromelain, evening primrose oil,
cod liver oil, gamma linolenic acid and mixed tocopherols, multi-vitamins,
calcium magnesium, multi-vitamins and minerals, iron complex and a number of
other supplements.
I have eliminated nightshade vegetables, coffee, soda pop, aspartame, citrus
fruits, meat, dairy, soy, wheat, saturated fats, all refined carbohydrates
including bread and pasta. I buy organic whenever available and eat raw
foods as much as possible.
I am willing to go to any lengths to promote my health. Of course what I am
doing may not work for you. It may be that once a person starts on the
chemotherapy or long-term anti-biotics they are trapped. The purpose of the
chemotherapy is to knock out the immune system in order to stop it from
attacking the host. I've also read up on long-term use of anti-biotics and
the studies weren't that encouraging to me. Besides that, my immune system
is nuts enough without adding to the problem.
I chose not to attack my immune system because it doesn't make sense to me.
Instead I have chosen to do everything I can to promote a healthy immune
system that had run riot and resulted in rheumatoid arthritis. My goal has
been to get my immune system calmed down in the hope that it will again work
as wonderfully as it did before.
It may well be that the destruction caused by drugs, such as MTX or
long-term use of antibiotics, may assault the body in ways that make it too
late to do what I am doing. MTX sure as heck causes a lot of damage
according to studies I read on the National Institute of Health site. I am
glad I have access to the internet so I could research the chemicals the
arthritis specialist recommended.
It is irresponsible to discourage people from taking steps to promote a
healthier immune system and to attack people like me who are getting
improvement by doing this.
My lab results confirm the improvement I am experiencing in alleviation of
pain and swelling.
Regards,
Denise
Kitty Kelly
Apparently you DIDN'T read my posts. I tried the diet route BEFORE I
ever saw a doctor and BEFORE I ever took any drugs for it as well as
AFTER I started the drugs. I gave it a year and a half.
How interesting that you've been secretly living in my house to 'know'
what I have or have not done! I would like you to move out immediately!
It's amazing how you 'know' whether any of us are leading healthy lives
or not. You're making huge assumptions without any facts. Perhaps you
would be happier if you formed an "all natural' group.
No one else in this group espouses that their way is the only way or
that others are not doing everything they can to help themselves except
you and a few other diet zealots. They simply support each other
whatever their endeavors might be. Don't you find that interesting?
Personally I couldn't care less what crusade you're on but there are
people in this group who are very ill and in a lot of pain as well as
emotionally fragile at times. When you get on your soapbox it's like
kicking them when they are down.
We get the message - diet works for you. When others have questions
about that aspect, fine, fill them in on it. My request is STOP SHOVING
IT DOWN OUR THROATS!!! Frankly, your attitude would make me NOT want to
try it if I hadn't already.
Kitty
charlotte le fleur
Char
Christy
all of this pain...... some days the only enjoyent is the sodas, coffee,
hot tea, and fattening desserts.... I do enough therapy to earn
it.....Dear God, please don't take away the few pleasures we have left!
;-)
Christy
"Reality is for people who can't handle drugs."
Lynda Gottschalk
Lynda Gottschalk
swear word.I may be rude at times, but boorish? I would call boorish
exactly what you do when you constantly push your theories on the rest
of us.
ANNETTE GARRISON
First let me say that I am happy for you that what you are doing for
your health works but I worked in dietary of a local hospital for 7
years and I eat a well balanced nutritional diet and I am a lot worse
off than people I know that just eat junk.
Secondly, I sense a little sarcasm when you say the "good doctor" and I
am assuming you are talking about Dr. Susan. Let me tell you she is
better than the "good doctor" she is the greatest doctor. I was going
to wait to make this testimonial but after reading your post I feel the
need to do it now.
As I have told the group before I was only diagnosed with RA in May and
was referred to a very good Rheumatologist. After several visits with
blood tests and x-rays I was also diagnosed with FMS and osteoporosis.
My rheumatologist prescribed plaquenil, relafen, and pamelor.
Everytime my PCP (primary care provider) did blood tests on me for the
past 10 years he would always say that my liver enzymes were very high
and ask me if my gall bladder bothered me and I would remind him that it
was removed years ago. He said that since I had high cholesterol that I
probably had a fatty liver. Until I found this group I never questioned
my doctors and always took what they said as the gospel. When I read
the information on the meds I take now I noticed that the relafen is
toxic to the liver. I went to the liver support group on Saturday and I
posted a note directly to Dr. Susan and asked her should I bring it to
my Rheumatologist attention since I was scheduled to see him on
Thursday. I have had a lot of abdominal pain in the past month and I
was concerned. Dr. Susan sent me a lot of information which I wish I
could post to you but I don't know how with this web tv if I only had my
computer at work. Anyway she advised me to contact my rheumatologist
and let him know this information and told me some tests that maybe he
would want to do. I called my PCP on Monday morning and had them make
copies of all blood tests for the past 5 years and I called my
rheumatologist to see if he would like for me to bring them on Monday
for him to review before my appointment this Thursday. My
rheumatologist wanted me to bring him the information that afternoon.
When I went to my rheumatologist he was very impressed with everything
Dr. Susan said and he was upset that my PCP had not provided him with
this information. As of Monday I had blood work taken for hepatitis B
and hepatitis C and some vitamin D levels. I should learn the results
by Friday and if they are negative my rheumatologist wants me to see a
liver specialist because my enzyme levels are extremely high. He also
had me stop taking the relafin.
So when you say that Dr. Susan is not worried about our livers you are
dead wrong and she possibly has saved mine. I have also learned from my
rheumtologist that my liver may be part of the RA problem.
DR. Susan if you are lurking you are my hero!
ANNETTE GARRISON
Thank you for your post. I was wandering why GOD was not being spelled
out. I know that the only miracle with this disease I will receive will
come from GOD.
I am sending healing prayers your way.
Annette
ANNETTE GARRISON
That does it you definetly get the Arthritis Warrior of the Month Award.
Annette
Lynda Gottschalk
If it works for you , thats great. But you
DO push and as you put it, in a very boorish manner. You come off as a
very angry and rude person. Please stop. This is not what this board is
for, is it? You are personally attacking someone, that is not
civilized behavior.
Lynda Gottschalk
to read it and post here? I am sure there are other
places more ameniable to your point of view. And if the reason you do
post here is to change peoples minds, then you ARE on a soap box.
Lynda Gottschalk
my use of God.I have never heard that using the term God was
blasphemous. I am sorry, but if that offends some I will continue to
offend in that manner, because I refer to God often. He is the source of
all my inspiration and in that I cannot be silenced. I agree tho, it is
not a subject to be discussed here.I do not get offended when someone
REFERS
to Buddha, etc. and I expect others to understand that a simple
referral to God is
not intended to persuade or be offensive in any manner.
Kitty Kelly
Denise - I had a nice long post written in response to your 8/20, 12:51
am posting, but then I realized that you are no longer rational at this
point.
I don't know if you have a problem with depression, unresolved anger or
the dreaded disease Lackanookie, but I won't be debating you under this
subject heading anymore. It's only fun if you can keep up with me
without resorting to anger and absurdities. You can't.
Do I hear an amen out there -g- ?
Kitty
Steve Ratliff
wrote:
><<That doesn't mean it will help everybody.>>
>
>I didn't say that it would but then we can't be sure about that, maybe it
>would. There are many scientific studies available on the internet
>describing the side affects of chemotherapy as well as steroids.
I don't know, seems to me that I've read posts by people here who have
tried the diet, and it didn't work. One thing I can think that makes
it difficult to know if diet, or for that matter medication, is
working is the cyclical nature of the disease. It first hit me about 6
years ago then went away for almost 4 years. If I had changed diets
when it struck (or started MTX or some such) I would probably have
been convinced that that was the cause for the remission. I'm on MTX
right now, if I start to get better I still couldn't say that I'm 100%
sure that the MTX is the reason.
>
>I have seen many people on this list at what I hope is their worst, in fact
>some of them have been rude and boorish towards me in private email.
>
Tell us who they were and we'll cyber whack them. I for one don't care
for anyone that would attack someone in private e-mail. After all it
was when bob called Krissy a whore via e-mail, that I finally gave up
on him. Up until that point I had been trying my best to like him.
Unfortunately for him, people in cyber land have to live by their
post.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Denise J.
>
>Ps. It is my new policy to report all private hate mail to the sender's
>ISP.
>
>
Regards,
Steve
http://www.zoomnet.net/~steve
Dave Morrison
AABO...@webtv.net (Kitty Kelly) wrote:
>Denise -
>snipped
>We get the message - diet works for you. When others have questions
>about that aspect, fine, fill them in on it. My request is STOP SHOVING
>IT DOWN OUR THROATS!!! Frankly, your attitude would make me NOT want to
>try it if I hadn't already.
>
>Kitty
>
as well.
Regards,Dave.
Denise
not just using diet, I get PT, use specific supplementation, as well as
homeopathy and you have not posted that you did all of those things at the
same time. I have had the opinion of two RD's as well as my PCP, a
Homeopath, and Naturopath, and they are involved in my decisions and
cooperate with the protocol I am using.
In so far as being on a soap box goes I would say the soap boxes on this
list are dominated by the people who are pushing the use of MTX and
paquinal. Never does anyone rush to post to the list that those drugs
didn't work for them though they have little benefit when weighed against
the side affects they produce.
I am making improvement using alternatives to the drugs that would harm my
liver and you and a couple others get all in a hissy fit over my progress.
I would suggest you examine your own motives for being so defensive.
Perhaps it is because you may know, at a deep level, that YOU have made the
wrong decision? I would further suggest that some of the drugs encouraged
on this list, steroids, ultrum, marijuana, and opiates have as side effects,
for many people, the inability to tell the true from the false as well as
extreme mood swings.
I'm getting better. I got great numbers on liver function tests and I'm not
taking any mind altering drugs.
Why are you so threatened by my improved health? Do you own stock in the
pharmaceutical companies?
You try to speak as an authority and insist everyone fall into line behind
allopathic medicine. I am not impressed by your anger or your determination
to dominate this list. I've never considered being able to write rude
letters to be a character asset and do not applaud your ability to do so.
I came here looking for solutions. I have no stake at all in what course of
treatment you use.
In fact, many of the main-stream drugs used for RA will so damage the human
body that the option of emulating what I am doing will be lost.
I am doing what works for me and it doesn't have to work for you or anyone
else. It is working for me and you and a few others just seem madder than
hell that my choices are having a better outcome than the choices you have
made.
And in so far as my attitude goes, Kitty, yours, is nothing I'd be proud of.
I haven't shoved any of my ideas down your throat or any one else's throat.
I have merely posted my choices and the progress I am making. You are not
the center of my universe. I have just as much right to post in this venue
as anyone else and I will continue to do so whether you like it or not.
So back down, sweetie, you are taking yourself way too seriously.
<<How interesting that you've been secretly living in my house to 'know'
what I have or have not done! >>
ROTFL, yup, you're right, I just have to go by what you post, but judging
from what I've read, I'm grateful not to be there. It must be hell.
Regards,
Denise
Lady Andy2
>swear word.I may be rude at times, but boorish?
Sorry, Lynmari... but to some people it is blasphemous to use the name. You
should respect that. Has nothing whatsoever to do with arthritis or diet
though.
I agree about some of the tone of the posts regarding diet in this newsgroup,
but we are all individuals looking for what works and I am open to hearing
about things that help people.
We have a poster on the psoriasis newsgroup named Terry who has been posting of
his success in using diet to treat psoriasis for a long time now. Somehow even
though he sometimes sounds like a broken record, he doesn't antagonize people
the way some do here. Same for Lisanorth on that group... wish tempers would
just cool off a little and people would decide to live and let live. <sigh>
Best regards,
LadyAndy2
Lady Andy2
>out. I know that the only miracle with this disease I will receive will
In some religions, it is blasphemous to spell out or say openly the name. It
is considered too holy for common speech.
I know you didn't mean it that way, and I personally am not religious, but I
know that orthodox Jews believe this, and perhaps others as well (I don't
know). A little respect goes a long way...
Best regards,
LadyAndy2
Livid101
Christine
>>>The first rule of intergalactic travel:
>>>Never get a cat.
KrissyJo
ROFL! Or at least first cousins!!!!!!
Keep Smilin'
~krissy
charlotte le fleur
Livid101 wrote:
> I think Denise and Bob are the same person.
>
charlotte le fleur
very lucky to have her here. Char
KrissyJo
ROFL!! Stop making me spit on my monitor!!!!!
>Do I hear an amen out there
AMEN!
Denise
intended to persuade or be offensive in any manner.>>
Well, Lynmari, I agree you can refer to G-d however you choose. I do object
to you attacking me for how I refer to
G-d. Please be assured that the manner in which I refer to G-d is not with
the intention of offending you or anyone else; it is simply the way I show
respect for G-d. Now let it drop, please.
Denise
duck out. If it upsets you that I am doing better don't read what I write.
In so far as you bullying me --in your dreams. You have my best wishes and
prayers, dear, but not my obedience.
<<By the way, if you disagree so vehemently with this board, why continue
to read it and post here? I am sure there are other
places more ameniable to your point of view. And if the reason you do
post here is to change peoples minds, then you ARE on a soap box.>>
Lynmari
Denise
Not really. Read and compare. My diet is much more strict than his and I
also use Homeopathy.
KrissyJo
>also use Homeopathy.
>
>
Denise,
As someone who loves food, I gotta ask, do you enjoy your diet????
I eat what I like within reason. I dont eat what I know will cause me major
problems.....well sometimes I do, then I just live with the consenquences. It's
worth it on occasion.
If I ate what you ate, I would be a very unhappy person. And if I aint happy,
aint nobody gonna be happy!!!!!
I learned the hard way a few years ago, that life is too damn short and can end
too damn early. I may get hit by a truck getting my paper in the morning, but I
will die with a smile knowing the last morsel of food that hit my lips was a
peice of choclate peanut butter cheesecake!!!!!!
Keep Smilin'
~Krissy
Denise
couple years. Now I eat lots of fruit, berries, melons, and vegetables. I
am hoping to love beans and rice. I cooked some garbonzo soup a few days
ago and had to wait until I was really hungry to enjoy it. I do miss coffee
but I had one cup last Saturday night and got a flush response and a feeling
of overall tightness, like my skin was too small. I never noticed that
before because I was always drinking way too much coffee. I drive by the
coffee huts one hut at a time all the while reminding myself that nothing
tastes as good as health. I do drink a little tea but it's just not the
same thing.
Denise J.
Jewelliete
<snip>
>but I
>will die with a smile knowing the last morsel of food that hit my lips was a
>peice of choclate peanut butter cheesecake!!!!!!
Yaaaaahh Krissy. My sentiments exactly. lol
Barb
Steve Ratliff
wrote:
><<How can you support a man who attacks others?>>
>
>It is difficult to see how someone mentioning a television show that
>addressed the emotional and psychological component of chronic illness and
>pain as being a direct attack on anyone. Just because someone threatens an
>idea you have doesn't mean they are are attacking you. The center of the
>solar system is the sun and not any one person on this list.
I take MTX. He said anyone taking prescription drugs is a drug addict.
How is that NOT an insult. I didn't insult him because he uses a diet
to do the same thing I'm doing. He chose to use the inflammatory words
not us. Also he called KJ a whore. How is that NOT an attack? I don't
recall her attacking him before that. He was the one who chose the
negative path and I truly feel for him for that.
Steve
Rick
It
>is considered too holy for common speech.
Usually this meant the personal name of God, not the reference. In the case
of Judaism it was Jehovah, or more closer was, Yahweh. (There are other
variations though)
He was refered to as JHWH in ancient Jewish writings. The scribes when they
came to His name would stop, wash and then write the name. EVERYTIME they
came to the name!!!! Oooooooh talk about getting shower wrinkles!
However, when I first saw some people writing "G-D", I thought it was
Blasphemous, thinking it was refering to God D-md. Ooops was I wrong...
;-) Glad I stay silent on that! :-D
OK History lesson over, lets get back to our pain!
Rick
Shandster
with food causing some arthritis pain, which has been proven in some patients
and you people go nuts and expect a person not to defend themselves. They were
merely sharing a natural approach that may help some people. Those who go the
drug route are going to say its a bunch of bologney just as the naturalist are
going to say don't pollute your body. I would rather not pollute mine with
drugs I didn't have to take if I knew a diet staple was the cause. In some
cases this is true. As a youngin in this group I think you adults need to c
hills out and accept others beliefs and therapies. YEESH.
PS. Tomatos make me flair big time!
Shandi
Shandster
Dr Graham Chiu
Kelly <AABO...@webtv.net> writes
>I would never push my treatment on anyone or insist that 'my way' was
>the 'right way'. Everyones body is different and reacts differently to
>drugs, supplements and foods. If I ever find something that works for
>me I will share the information and leave it at that.
It is very natural for someone who has found an effective remedy to want
to tell everyone else about it. With magnets, it's called selling. In
religion, it is called preaching. I note the number of references to
God on this newsgroup. Curiously, I don't see any complaints about that.
--
Dr G Chiu
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/7472
Deebee 3
>I personally think you are all being silly. One person shares their
>experience
>with food causing some arthritis pain, which has been proven in some patients
>and you people go nuts and expect a person not to defend themselves.
Shandi,
Thanks for such a succinct summary of the 39 (?!) posts of this thread.
>As a youngin in this group I think you adults need to chills out and accept
others beliefs and therapies. YEESH.
Please let me know when *that* happens, Shandi! Double YEESH!
Denise
Connie Davis
:>Denise J.
:>
:>Ps. It is my new policy to report all private hate mail to the sender's
This is from someone who ignored my request NOT to email me, however, I am sure that she has NOT
been eating organic carrots recently,<BG> the reason I say this, is that she was unable to "see" the
word NOT, which was the bit you found dificulty with, the N or the T, I returned her unsolicited
mailing to her and have kept a copy of them on file for future referral if she does insist on
contaminating my screen, in the future.
I beleive she signed off with something like ,
Good Health,
returned a thousand fold Denise J.
ConnieD.
:>ISP.
:>
:>
:
:Regards,
:Steve
:http://www.zoomnet.net/~steve
Harvey R. Stone
way, did you see on the news that geocities is being sued for selling
lists of its customers?? Are you being used without your permission??
Harv
Lynda Gottschalk
For some religions it is considered blasphemous for they themselves to
speak the name of God.
Regardless, I am truly sorry for offending anyone in that matter due to
religious preference. It was certainly not intended that way.
However, if you continue to read my posts you will see reference to
God. If it
offends you, you have been forewarned.
Please accept my apology for an unintentional, ignorant comment.
Lynda Gottschalk
that I didn't mean it in that way. Why start an argument over something
that was not
there? Please see my previous post re the apology. You say this is not
the place for it, then please let it go now. I have apologized four
times.
Lady Andy2
>to tell everyone else about it. With magnets, it's called selling. In
>religion, it is called preaching. I note the number of references to
>God on this newsgroup. Curiously, I don't see any complaints about that.
>
or others and it is not an effort to evangelize here, most of us do not feel it
is improper.
But if someone were to come in (as they did in another group I participate in,
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis) with a post stating blatantly that Jesus
heals arthritis and going on for paragraphs about this weird theory and how our
sins cause our disease, you'd better believe there would be complaints!
Best regards,
LadyAndy2
S. Barrett
> How is that NOT an insult. I didn't insult him because he uses a diet
> to do the same thing I'm doing. He chose to use the inflammatory words
> not us. Also he called KJ a whore. How is that NOT an attack? I don't
> recall her attacking him before that. He was the one who chose the
> negative path and I truly feel for him for that.
Addiction is only a problem when it becomes detrimental to your life. I
for one am addicted to air, water and baseball (in reverse order of
importance), and I like it.
Sean
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.zoomnet.net/~steve
>
>
Carol Granger
>
> In article <28532-35...@newsd-144.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, Kitty
> Kelly <AABO...@webtv.net> writes
> >I would never push my treatment on anyone or insist that 'my way' was
> >the 'right way'. Everyones body is different and reacts differently to
> >drugs, supplements and foods. If I ever find something that works for
> >me I will share the information and leave it at that.
>
> to tell everyone else about it. With magnets, it's called selling. In
Trying to tell a poster what worked for her (referring
to Denise) is one thing, doc. That's fine. I'm glad
her vegetarian approach seemed to work for her.
But for her to sit back and CONDESCENDINGLY state those
who treat their arthritis via other methods are wrong, I,
as I am sure others do, vehemently RESENT.
And no matter how much she tries to deny it, she *IS*
on a soap box.
Denise
I wasn't referring to the fall out. Bob posted about a television show he
saw where the doctor speaking suggested other doctors ask their patients
what benefits they get from their arthritis. Many people took this as a
direct attack against them in particular and acted accordingly. At the
latter part of the mutual attacks none of them looked good to me.
Had others not reacted so defensively in the first place there would have
been a much different outcome. However the strident little group responded
like a pack of dogs each urging the others on. It was a pitiful sight to
observe.
However, the original point that doctor on the television show was making in
regard to the emotional benefits of being a victim are valid. It was not to
say that the pain was not real but rather to look at the whole picture.
I am far more than just my arthritis. I have in addition to a physical an
emotional and spiritual being as well and allopathic medical delivery
generally over looks that.
This list is available to all people and not the private domain of a few
strident voices. Though I'd like to point out that the people complaining
about their pain and attacking anyone using alternatives to allopathic
medicine are generally very sick people, as they are so quick to point out.
When someone posts about the degree of their pain on this list there are
always two or three people who immediately post how their pain is so much
worse than that of the original poster's.
Then this same group jumps forward and volunteers to the rest of us that
they are arthritis warriors and all sorts of rude behavior is endorsed. I
will not involve myself further with them for several reasons.
1. Name calling is childish and not conducive to good mental health.
2. If one can judge from their posts, the people in the strident group are
doing things that are not solving their difficulties.
3. I came here seeking solutions not to co-miserate about pain.
4. It is impossible to have an authentic conversation with people who are
under the influence of some mood altering substance.
5. I am able to validate myself and do not need the approval of a small
group of people whom I do not know or have much in common with.
6. I have a life.
I am getting relief by methods which do not threaten my liver, make me throw
up, lose my hair, get Cushing's Syndrome or the host of other horrible side
effects which have been mentioned on this list and are posted in studies at
the National Institute of Health site.
I have been able to transition off indocin and omeprazole to natural
anti-inflammatories. I do not need prescription pain medications now.
I will continue to do what works for me, whatever that may be.
Regards,
Denise J
On Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:51:52 GMT, "Denise" <den...@teleport.com>
wrote:
><<How can you support a man who attacks others?>>
>
>It is difficult to see how someone mentioning a television show that
>addressed the emotional and psychological component of chronic illness and
>pain as being a direct attack on anyone. Just because someone threatens an
>idea you have doesn't mean they are are attacking you. The center of the
>solar system is the sun and not any one person on this list.
I take MTX. He said anyone taking prescription drugs is a drug addict.
How is that NOT an insult. I didn't insult him because he uses a diet
to do the same thing I'm doing. He chose to use the inflammatory words
not us. Also he called KJ a whore. How is that NOT an attack? I don't
recall her attacking him before that. He was the one who chose the
negative path and I truly feel for him for that.
Steve
Denise
to forward them to anyone who requests them.
Denise J
Denise
:o)
I did my research, so as not to be rude and boorish, or ill-mannered.
For some religions it is considered blasphemous for they themselves to
speak the name of God.
Regardless, I am truly sorry for offending anyone in that matter due to
religious preference. It was certainly not intended that way.
However, if you continue to read my posts you will see reference to
God. If it
offends you, you have been forewarned.
Please accept my apology for an unintentional, ignorant comment.
Lynmari
KrissyJo
>1. Name calling is childish and not conducive to good mental health.
Tell that to your buddy Bob.
>2. If one can judge from their posts, the people in the strident group are
>doing things that are not solving their difficulties.
>
>
Many of us are much better than we were pre-drugs. And are doing what *we*
think is right as far as our disease goes.
>3. I came here seeking solutions not to co-miserate about pain
See the SUPPORT in the name?? Support often means co-miserateing. We are here
to find SUPPORT from people who know how we feel. Not to be told that we are
killing our organs.......blah blah blah.
>4. It is impossible to have an authentic conversation with people who are
>under the influence of some mood altering substance.
That Denise, was a low blow! And you have the nerve to say we put you down.
>5. I am able to validate myself and do not need the approval of a small
>group of people whom I do not know or have much in common with.
>
>
Peachy fine with me. Validate all you want, just dont tell me my choice is
wrong. I have not told you that your choice is wrong. Whatever works.
>6. I have a life.
Judging from the number of posts from you lately, I am beginning to wonder!
>I am getting relief by methods which do not threaten my liver, make me throw
>up, lose my hair, get Cushing's Syndrome or the host of other horrible side
>effects which have been mentioned on this list and are posted in studies at
>the National Institute of Health site.
>
>
And I am perfectly happy with my choice to live with the side effects of the
drugs I choose.
I watched my grandmother die a horrible death of RA. Yes RA can be fatal. So
can the drugs. I made a choice. She did not have access to all the treatment
options I have. DONT tell me my choice is wrong. You have not been thru what I
have. You do not know what will or wont work for me. I made my choice, you made
yours.
>I will continue to do what works for me, whatever that may be.
>
>
And I will continue to do what works best for me.
Jewelliete
group and usually just sit back and wait for them to fizzle out but I have
watched this long enough and can not let it pass without comment. I consider
myself one of those "Arthritis Warriors" you put down. We each have chosen the
path we were most comfortable with for the treatment of our diseases. You have
chosen the "all natural homeopathic route" and I have chosen the "meds" route.
Your way works for you and yet I remember not so long ago seeing a post by Dr.
Sue about seeing a patient who had done as you. She also felt great for years
but the disease itself was still causing severe damage in the background. I
too have weighed the pros and cons of each treatment and decided to go the
route of medication. When I was at my worst, I could barely walk and often
wondered if I would "make it" to the bathroom in time in the middle of the
night. I couldn't drive anymore and would cry gallons of tears over the pain
and wondering what was going to become of my life. I am now back to school,
taking care of two young children on my own and actively looking for work.
Meds has worked for me and I know that although I need to be careful of things
such as my liver, I can function in a normal very full life. I come here for
the support that this ng offers. Yes we all have bad days and days of
frustration and fear and we share that to help give each other strength. And
it also works for me. In return I try to offer support to others who also come
here for the same thing. I truely RESENT your implication that I am under the
influence of mood altering substances. I behave no differently now than I did
a year ago before diagnosis and meds. For the record, my RA came on suddenly
and severly. There was no build up that made me wonder what might be going on.
My hair is not falling out, my liver levels are normal and I have none of the
dreaded side effects you keep holding up as testimony to the awful choices we
have made for ourselves.
I do not have a problem with your sharing what works for you. We each make our
decisions on our own research and what we feel is right for us. Where I do
have a problem is when you don't get off that soap box and start running down
the other people in this group and the choices we have made.
Barb (who is proud to call her herself....)
Arthritis Warrior
because to me that means I am fighting this disease and not letting it control
me or my life
charlotte le fleur
,to my knowledge, ever attribute any of his pronouncements to a television show
that he had watched.
Now as for your evangelical zeal about your diet and supplements, perhaps you
didnt read my post politely asking for information on this diet. Perhaps if I
post the question again, you will answer it. So here goes---
Why is eating a well balanced diet detrimental to your health, but taking
supplements with no standard of purity or quality is good for you? I am asking
an honest question out of real confusion.
Char Le Fleur
charlotte le fleur
you not to send E mail to her and you did. You have asked me to never e mail
you again or you would report me to my isp for harrasment. I have not E mailed
you. Perhaps you have a double standard here?
Char
charlotte le fleur
PEDSEC
>will die with a smile knowing the last morsel of food that hit my lips was a
>peice of choclate peanut butter cheesecake!!!!!!
Ummm, Krissy, you got a recipe for that? Those are my three favorite sweets:
chocolate, peanut butter and cheesecake!!! All 3 combined in one, I have died
and gone to heaven!!!
Bonnie
Never enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent :o)
charlotte le fleur
favorite flavors. Told him about it and he moaned "OOOOOH, KRISSY!" So you
better come up with it girl friend. LOL
Char
Kenny
>>In so far as being on a soap box goes I
>>would say the soap boxes on this list are
>>dominated by the people who are pushing
>>the use of MTX and paquinal. Never does
>>anyone rush to post to the list that those
>>drugs didn't work for them though they
>>have little benefit when weighed against
>>the side affects they produce.
>>I am making improvement using
>>alternatives to the drugs that would harm
>>my liver and you and a couple others get
>>all in a hissy fit over my progress.
>>I would suggest you examine your own
>>motives for being so defensive. Perhaps it
>>is because you may know, at a deep level,
>>that YOU have made the wrong decision?
>>I would further suggest that some of the
>>drugs encouraged on this list, steroids,
>>ultrum, marijuana, and opiates have as
>>side effects, for many people, the inability
>>to tell the true from the false as well as
>>extreme mood swings.
Denise
How nice that what your doing is woring for you. I do apreciate you
sharing that information with us. Now as for ayone pushing MTX down
anybodies throat-I've not seen that in here. I personally have taken 20
mgs of MTX a week by injection and have yet to have a liver function
test show up bad. I've also taken 5 mgs of predisone a day for 7 years
and bone density scans show almost normal bones for a 50 year old. I do
take vitamines and minerals and a few other things. I haven't had to
take over 5 naprosyn this whole year and 8 years ago i was eating them
like candy......Now would I suggest to you or anyone else this is what
they should do? I think not. What got me at my point would surely not
work for everyone. After all, we are not all the same. As for as love
hisself bob goes. He ruined himself when he e-mailed Krissy Jo and
talked to her in the manner he did. I don't feel sorry for him nor do I
like him and I could care less what he thinks of me. Hope your having a
good day.
~~~Kenny~~~
Lynda Gottschalk
Denise, no one has ever attacked you for your choice of therapies. Just
for your methods of "playing well with others".
Lynmari
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars."
Oscar Wilde
http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari
Carol Granger
>
> >
> >1. Name calling is childish and not conducive to good mental health.
>
> Tell that to your buddy Bob.
>
> >2. If one can judge from their posts, the people in the strident group are
> >doing things that are not solving their difficulties.
>
>
> Many of us are much better than we were pre-drugs. And are doing what *we*
> think is right as far as our disease goes.
>
> >3. I came here seeking solutions not to co-miserate about pain
>
> See the SUPPORT in the name?? Support often means co-miserateing. We are here
> to find SUPPORT from people who know how we feel. Not to be told that we are
> killing our organs.......blah blah blah.
>
> >4. It is impossible to have an authentic conversation with people who are
> >under the influence of some mood altering substance.
>
> That Denise, was a low blow! And you have the nerve to say we put you down.
>
>
> >5. I am able to validate myself and do not need the approval of a small
> >group of people whom I do not know or have much in common with.
>
>
> Peachy fine with me. Validate all you want, just dont tell me my choice is
> wrong. I have not told you that your choice is wrong. Whatever works.
Yep. Denise's tone sure sounds CONDESCENDING to me.
Steve Ratliff
<sba...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Addiction is only a problem when it becomes detrimental to your life. I
>for one am addicted to air, water and baseball (in reverse order of
>importance), and I like it.
>
>Sean
>
>
>
>
This is America in the 90s, calling someone a drug addict is a pretty
big insult.
Steve Ratliff
>I think Denise and Bob are the same person.
>
>
>Christine
>>>>The first rule of intergalactic travel:
>>>>Never get a cat.
OUCH ! what a mean thing to say! Seriously comparing someone to bob is
a pretty mean thing to do.
Steve Ratliff
Gottschalk) wrote:
>By the way, if you disagree so vehemently with this board, why continue
>to read it and post here? I am sure there are other
>places more ameniable to your point of view. And if the reason you do
>post here is to change peoples minds, then you ARE on a soap box.
>
>Lynmari
>
>"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars."
>Oscar Wilde
>http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari
Hi, Lynmari,
I may not agree with Denise, but I have to say that she has as much
right to be heard as any of us. I would hate to see anyone run off
ASA. I think we're bigger than that.
Steve
Kelly English
(Solgonal) and prednisone. When I first began this journey, I too wondered if I
could make it to the bathroom, could not dress myself, and was in great pain.
Although I can use and do use a lot of alternative methods and can control my pain
99% of the time, the prednisone has given me back my life. It does alter my mood -
I can now smile, function fully and enjoy life. That is mood altering. One day I
will get off of them but for now - quality means a lot to my family. Do you have a
family Denise? I have 2 wonderful boys and they were very pained to see their mom
as bad as I was the first year of no prednisone. I am well monitored and am slowly
coming off pred. but will try to keep on the gold as long as it works.
I eat organic vegetables, exercise, don't smoke, don't drink, don't eat tomatoes,
peppers due to another condition I have and rarely drink coffee or tea due to the
same condition. I researched my choices very well and have NEVER suggested anyone
should do the same as I. It works for me - everything else so far did not. We are
all individuals.
I am not criticising you - what you are doing is working for you. I am glad - the
last thing I would wish on anyone is this disease. However, yes I am taking a mood
taking disease. Being under control changes my mood - to happiness.
Kelly who is also fighting this disease in the best way I can and not letting it
control me or my life. (What a powerful statement Barb)
KrissyJo
>
>chocolate, peanut butter and cheesecake!!! All 3 combined in one, I have
>died
>and gone to heaven!!!
No recipe! My parents got it when they went out to dinner. Saw it on the
menu...and knowing my three loves.......they brought it home for me.
Ahhhhhhhh.......gotta love em! It was marvy!!!!!
Keep Smilin'
~krissy
KrissyJo
ROFL! I have that effect on some men! <beg> But I am afraid I dont have the
recipe......sorry Myron!!!!
Keep Smilin'
~Krissy
Dr Graham Chiu
<h.r....@att.net> writes
>Dr, Feel free to complaine about anything that you feel about. By the
>way, did you see on the news that geocities is being sued for selling
>lists of its customers?? Are you being used without your permission??
>Harv
I get so much unsolicited e-mail ( mostly requests for information/help
regarding arthritis ), that I probably wouldn't notice.
I *do* have this great freeware program which scans my pop3 mailbox and
deletes spam *before* I download it.
Dr Graham Chiu
<cgra...@earthlink.net> writes
>
> And no matter how much she tries to deny it, she *IS*
> on a soap box.
Well part is clear, I was just trying to explain why she is there.
charlotte le fleur
butter, cheese cake lover salivate. Just what are you going to do about it?
Krissy-dont tell me you dont have the recipe!!!!! When I get my kitchen up and
running again, I may have to do a little kitchen chemistry and see what I can
do. Diets be damned. (for one day anyway). Which reminds me, I have to crow a
little. I have lost about 30 lbs so far. But unfortunately that is only a drop
in the bucket. But I will get there (or at least a good bit closer).
When I iron out the recipe, I will share it with everyone. Even you Krissy.
<BEG>
Char
KrissyJo wrote:
PS-It wont be right away, we are still in the throes of remodeling. Myrons job
has been interfering with his honey dews. LOL
nocki
our diets, getting off of your meds etc. for a short period of time looking for
alternatives. And this has been said...over and over and over again. What works for
some does not work for others. As (whats his name again?) keeps telling me (us) to
stay off artificial colors, flavors etc. only eat fresh vegetables and fruits....a
large majority in this group has already tried. I have been doing that for longer
than he had RA (if he has it), and I still do it. I hardly eat red meat, only and
mostly chicken and fish.... I also grew up in Europe, nothing but only fresh fruit
and vegetable around when I was a kid and teenager...so tell me, how did I get RA?
None in my family ever had it. But I be damn if I will risk my bones to
deteriorate by neglecting to take meds which could prevent that and suffer later
on. I just don't have the time to experiment with my live....there are things to
do, to accomplish outside of stuffing my theory that might has worked for me down
somebody else's throat. I believe there are more constructive areas to pursue and
follow up on. Toughen it out? ...Sure...go right ahead all of you veggie worshipers
and "whatever" followers. I am personally not into enjoying pain nor am I into
selfpunishment...when ever I get by with it...give me a God damn Pill.
You know I just as well don't respond to this guy...but as others said...there are
choices to make and there are other options newcomers need to be informed about.
Nocki
DCCDGriggs wrote:
> From my point of view, and I've been reading all the posts for quite some time
> and only recently deciding to post some things right now, have found that the
> only ones that are attacking is the ones who don't want to hear anything about
> diet.
>
> What bob and denise and sharon are saying to you is not attacking you or your
> arthritis. Granted, they have said some things that they shouldn't have, but
> that was said in retaliation to your attack.
>
> Please, lets stop the attacks right now, both sides, and keep an open mind
> about what is being said.
>
> These people are not just saying to eat sensably, but to omit certain things
> from your diet, adding supplements, changing everything, and not just for a few
> weeks.
>
> for those of you that say you have tried this, take an honest look at what you
> have done and if you can say that during the time you tried this nutrition
> approach you did not eat any form of sugar, canned foods, packaged foods, diet
> foods, diary, and you did this for at least a year, then maybe this approach
> doesn't work for you.
>
> But then again, maybe Denise is right in that the drugs might be hindering the
> healing process of changing your diet.
>
> Rusty
--
We thought that we had the answers; it was the questions we had lost. -U2
nocki
I know I am a little corky today.
To Denise: What a live you have...sure sounds complicated and absolutely
boring...but what ever tickles your fancy......
Nocki
Denise wrote:
> <<We can be sure diet doesn't work for everyone because I TRIED IT AND I
> GOT WORSE!!!!!>>
>
> No you didn't. I have read your posts. Giving up this food or that food
> and taking this or that supplement for a month or two is not the same thing
> I am doing. I am doing ALL of the following.
>
> I got homeopathic treatment, eliminated all foods connected with
> contributing to inflammation and I am taking glucosamine sulfate,
> chondroitin sulfate, cat's claw, mullein, bromelain, evening primrose oil,
> cod liver oil, gamma linolenic acid and mixed tocopherols, multi-vitamins,
> calcium magnesium, multi-vitamins and minerals, iron complex and a number of
> other supplements.
>
> I have eliminated nightshade vegetables, coffee, soda pop, aspartame, citrus
> fruits, meat, dairy, soy, wheat, saturated fats, all refined carbohydrates
> including bread and pasta. I buy organic whenever available and eat raw
> foods as much as possible.
>
> I am willing to go to any lengths to promote my health. Of course what I am
> doing may not work for you. It may be that once a person starts on the
> chemotherapy or long-term anti-biotics they are trapped. The purpose of the
> chemotherapy is to knock out the immune system in order to stop it from
> attacking the host. I've also read up on long-term use of anti-biotics and
> the studies weren't that encouraging to me. Besides that, my immune system
> is nuts enough without adding to the problem.
>
> I chose not to attack my immune system because it doesn't make sense to me.
> Instead I have chosen to do everything I can to promote a healthy immune
> system that had run riot and resulted in rheumatoid arthritis. My goal has
> been to get my immune system calmed down in the hope that it will again work
> as wonderfully as it did before.
>
> It may well be that the destruction caused by drugs, such as MTX or
> long-term use of antibiotics, may assault the body in ways that make it too
> late to do what I am doing. MTX sure as heck causes a lot of damage
> according to studies I read on the National Institute of Health site. I am
> glad I have access to the internet so I could research the chemicals the
> arthritis specialist recommended.
>
> It is irresponsible to discourage people from taking steps to promote a
> healthier immune system and to attack people like me who are getting
> improvement by doing this.
>
> My lab results confirm the improvement I am experiencing in alleviation of
> pain and swelling.
>
> Regards,
>
> Denise
nocki
Sure looks like I got myself into big trouble....(see later post)......but
to explain things a little better....it has all to do with English being my
second language,...and I am awfully short on "swear" Vocabulary.......
honestly.
Nocki
Lynda Gottschalk wrote:
> I agree with all that you said...except(isn't there always an except?)
> my use of God.I have never heard that using the term God was
> blasphemous. I am sorry, but if that offends some I will continue to
> offend in that manner, because I refer to God often. He is the source of
> all my inspiration and in that I cannot be silenced. I agree tho, it is
> not a subject to be discussed here.I do not get offended when someone
> REFERS
> to Buddha, etc. and I expect others to understand that a simple
> referral to God is
> not intended to persuade or be offensive in any manner.
>
> Lynmari
>
> "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars."
> Oscar Wilde
> http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari
--
Lynda Gottschalk
have to be. I am not offended in the least. Now it can be done in a
derogatory manner, or if referring to illegal substances I suppose, and
that may be an insult. But in my case
the shoe fits and I gladly wear it to give me relief.
Lynda Gottschalk
a soap box,as she states. And she disagrees with
the group so vehemently, then it seems she would be happier elsewhere. I
personally like to see differences in opinion. I just don't want them
rammed down my throat. Geeeeeesh....mellow out,it was a sincere
question. I am interested in her motivation, thats all.
Shandster
I have been reading this thread just recently and I find something extremely
ODD. A LOT of people seem so unwilling to give up their favorite foods. I
cannot believe that if it meant tremendous help in pain relief that you
wouldn't do it. I actually find it very sad. I take all the RA staples, MTX,
Plaquenil etc but when I had cut out tomatos in my diet it helped greatly but
not totally. I always thought those who had it bad enough would try anything
to just decrease the effects. I know its not a cure all, nothing is, but why
not help yourself if you can? To me if you know your having a problem with a
certain food be it your favorite or not you are really harming your body. You
would be in essense killing yourself and keeping yourself in greater pain. I
would assume live on brown rice and fish than to be in pain.
Sorry, just had to rant a little bit...
Shandi
lei...@duke.edu
> not totally. I always thought those who had it bad enough would try anything
> to just decrease the effects. I know its not a cure all, nothing is, but why
> not help yourself if you can?
Hey, Shandi;
I'm glad cutting out tomatoes helped you, and we should probably all try it, as they seem to be a
fairly common trigger. But, as usual, it doesn't work for everyone. If fresh tomatoes made me
flare, I'd be comatose by now...
Leslie
Carol Granger
> Gottschalk) wrote:
> >By the way, if you disagree so vehemently with this board, why continue
> >to read it and post here? I am sure there are other
> >places more ameniable to your point of view. And if the reason you do
> >post here is to change peoples minds, then you ARE on a soap box.
> >Lynmari
>
>
> I may not agree with Denise, but I have to say that she has as much
> right to be heard as any of us. I would hate to see anyone run off
> ASA. I think we're bigger than that.
> Steve
Steve, I will agree that Denise has a right to be heard.
I'd hate to see her "run off" as well. Many of us are
glad that her diet seemed to work for HER. But the prob-
lem started with her APPROACH.
What the posters of this newsgroup were resenting was her
condescending insinuation that her method of treatment
was the only valid one. Now although I can't speak for
the others, I take that as a slap in the face. And I don't
even have RA. (I suffer from OA.) At least lately, I
remember seeing one of her post where she has somewhat
modified her statements, saying she was/is trying to inform
people what worked for HER.
Kay Wells
Shandster wrote:
> For all the FELLOW druggies out there :)...
>
> I have been reading this thread just recently and I find something extremely
> ODD. A LOT of people seem so unwilling to give up their favorite foods. I
> cannot believe that if it meant tremendous help in pain relief that you
> wouldn't do it. I actually find it very sad. I would assume live on brown
> rice and fish than to be in pain.
>
> Sorry, just had to rant a little bit...
>
> Shandi
Good Point Shandi...........I for one would have no problem with brown rice and
fish :) like them both! I think the sticker is HOW do we know WHAT is
affecting us and WHEN. Very few meds even give instant relief.....except for
the temporay pain meds. It is usually 6 weeks or 6 months to see any improvement
in our condition. I have just finished 30 days of GS/C. (Cush finally made me
curious). Now I need to decide whether to try some more......can't see as it has
done a thing so far. Now if I had to give up say, potatoes or red meat for a
month and could not tell for sure if it had made a difference......
Kay
KrissyJo
I have found that potatoes flare me, so I dont eat em. But I think for most of
us,,,,,,there are no food triggers.
Keep Smilin'
~krissy
Shelwood
>enough would try anything to just decrease
>the effects.
yes, but some of us *do* try and find that foods have no effect on our RA. why
cut things out if they don't make you flare? i have indeed tried elimination
diet, keeping a journal, etc., but my RA has no correllation to my diet (my IBS
is another story). i can eat tomatoes till the cows come home, and my joints
aren't any more swollen than they were before.
my RA is influenced by weather (low pressure systems), exercise (too much, too
little) and stress. oh, and not taking my meds. can't do much about the
weather, trying to find the balance with the exercise, doing my best about the
stress, and taking my meds faithfully. if anything i eat is worsening my RA,
it's so minute a change it's like a raindrop in the ocean.
but, as always, that's just me. i have severe, aggressive RA. YMMV :)
Shelley