Back to Square One for real this time
MightyJoe36
started two years ago, and were being managed with .5 mg of Klonopin
3x a day (later weaned to 1x a day), then back to twice a day on the
days I had to drive to work, things have gone from bad to worse.
In June I went to my doctor because of depression symptoms that had
lasted over a month. He prescribed 30 mg of Cymbalta (and kept me on
the Klonopin) and told me to go see a Psychiatrist.
During this time, the panic attacks came back in spite of the
Klonopin. Now it wasn't just driving home from work anymore, now it's
almost every time I drive anywhere on the highway.
After months of trying to get an appointment with a decent psych, I
finally had one two weeks ago. We talked, he took my history, and we
determined that at this point, the depression is not really a problem
(I'm managing it well) but the anxiety/panic is what's causing me
problems. A gave him the whole story, and he seemed to feel that the
Klonopin - since it's not a fast-acting drug, was not working and that
the reason it had worked in the beginning was, I went to the doctor
for panic attacks, he gave me something, I expected it to work, and it
did (for a while).
So, I weaned off the Klonopin, and now I'm more anxious then ever.
Also not sleeping well and obssessing over trivial stuff.
I've decided to go back to .5 mg 3x a day until I go back to see the
doctor, or at least until I get myself "right" again.
Any thoughts?
Joe
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Philip Peters
You are right. When you take Klonopin two or three times a day every day
you build it up and there will be a constant amount in your blood which
should keep you on an even keel. This should work as a maintenance med
and you have to find the dose that's right for you by trial and error.
Apart from that there may be breakthrough attacks or other emergencies
in which case it's handy to have a short- and fast acting benzo ready
like Xanax IR or Ativan (Klonopin, like Xanax XR, is a long and slower
working benzo, tried and true in the treatment of anxiety disorders).
Being more anxious than ever after weaning off Klonopin may be partly
the original anxiety and partly a consequence of the tapering process.
Benzos are very real meds and there is no chance that what you felt when
Klonopin worked was a placebo effect like your doctor seems to feel (who
may well be a benzophobe, ask him). Moreover, when starting an
antidepressant like Cymbalta anxiety symptoms will get worse in the
beginning and this may last for a few weeks (up to 8-12 weeks for some)
and then stopping an AD (like stopping a benzo) should be done very
slowly because of potential withdrawal symptoms. All this may play a
role in how bad you feel now. If you take the Klonopin for a while you
will probaby feel better.
Should you feel depressed again you might want to switch from K to Xanax
XR to which some ascribe a slight antidepressant effect while Klonopin
is known to sometimes exacerbate existing depression or even cause some
as a side effect of its own although most people don't have problems
with it. Of course if necessary an AD can be added then for depression,
espeically as ADs are also used for the treatment of anxiety-panic but
the AD should be started at a very low dose and the dose should be upped
slowly (*start low, go slow*) to minimize initial side effects.
Philip
MightyJoe36
pretty much gone back to what was working. It's only day 2, but so far
it seems to be working again.
Joe
V*nessa
"MightyJoe36" <might...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7ede69f0-29b2-4602...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Doctors often don't know what's best for you. If it's been working stick to
it. As Phillip said Klonipin is a great med to have to keep your anxiety
levels down on an even keel. However I don't think there's any med that's
going to stop some panic attacks sneaking through. Learning how to manage
your thinking leading up, during and after an attack is what helps me in the
long term. I've never had depression so I can't comment on that side of
things but you may want to look into cognitive behavioural therapy as you
can learn strategies for dealing with your driving. It's not unusual for
situational anxiety (i.e. anxiety only related to certain situations) to
then start spreading to other situations. Finding out what is triggering the
anxiety in those situations can be helpful.
All the best
V
MightyJoe36
wrote:
> "MightyJoe36" <mightyjo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Thanks for your support. It's been almost a week now, and I can tell
that things are getting much better. The general anxiety I felt almost
all the time is gone, and I am sleeping better. Having dealt with
depression for 10+ years, and anxiety/panic for two, I have a pretty
good idea of what works for me and what doesn't. I agree with you
about Doctors not always knowing what's best for you. I plan to
discuss this with my psych on our next visit which is in two weeks. If
he turns out to be a "benzophobe" like Phillip suggested, then I may
look elsewhere for treatment. My Primary Care physician has no
problems refilling my Klonopin when I need it so I'm not too worried
where that's concerned.
Again, thanks for your support.
Joe
V*nessa
Great to hear things have improved so quickly for you Joe. Don't be
surprised if you still experience some ebbs and flows as your body
re-adjusts. Klonopin is great for managing that overall anxiety feeling.
V
MightyJoe36
back to Klonopin 3x a day and Cymbalta at night. His response - "if
it's working keep on doing it." He did warn me that my body would
develop a tolerance to Klonopin after a while and I may start
experiencing the anxiety again,but it's working now so I'll cross that
bridge if and when I come to it.
Joe
Philip Peters
> Went to see my psychiatrist today. Told him about switching my meds
> back to Klonopin 3x a day and Cymbalta at night. His response - "if
> it's working keep on doing it." He did warn me that my body would
> develop a tolerance to Klonopin after a while and I may start
> experiencing the anxiety again,but it's working now so I'll cross that
> bridge if and when I come to it.
>
> Joe
>
And you'll probably never get there. I don't know why benzophobes keep
on saying that while there is overwhelming evidence that this is most
unusual among anxiety sufferers. Don't worry about it.
Philip
Marie
> During this time, the panic attacks came back in spite of the
> Klonopin. Now it wasn't just driving home from work anymore, now it's
> almost every time I drive anywhere on the highway.
This seems to be situational panic, not true panic disorder.
I remember many moons ago that I had almost developed panic attacks
while
driving. I never had those before. I told myself that no matter what,
I wasn't going
to go home. It was a battle, but I managed until OCD took over and I
drove back
home from work--25 miles--to make sure the coffeepot was unplugged
about 10 times before
going back to work.
I have a question: When I almost developed panic while driving (I was
on no meds),
I noticed that I was tired. Lack of sleep and trying to do too much
had wiped me out
and I was developing anxiety symptoms, especially OCD checking rituals
and the almost developed
panic while driving.
Is there a possibility that your body is tired? Exercise is great but
you mentioned "vigorous"?
Are you working your mind or body too much? I tried exercise during
those early days but noticed
that I was more anxious. Initially exercise can raise anxiety. Is this
a new thing for you?
Just curious. Vigorous exercise, contrary to popular belief, is not
easy on the body.
One has to wean onto it gradually, especially if they haven't done it
that hard before.
MightyJoe36
> On Nov 2, 3:14锟絧m, MightyJoe36 <mightyjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > During this time, the panic attacks came back in spite of the
> > Klonopin. Now it wasn't just driving home from work anymore, now it's
> > almost every time I drive anywhere on the highway.
>
> This seems to be situational panic, not true panic disorder.
> I remember many moons ago that I had almost developed panic attacks
> while
> driving. I never had those before. I told myself that no matter what,
> I wasn't going
> to go home. It was a battle, but I managed until OCD took over and I
> drove back
> home from work--25 miles--to make sure the coffeepot was unplugged
> about 10 times before
> going back to work.
>
> I have a question: When I almost developed panic while driving (I was
> on no meds),
> I noticed that I was tired. Lack of sleep and trying to do too much
> had wiped me out
> and I was developing anxiety symptoms, especially OCD checking rituals
> and the almost developed
> panic while driving.
Well, I with this cycle started again, I was depressed. When I'm
depressed I was probably not thinking straight and not able to use my
coping skills. I'm sure that had a lot to do with it.
> Is there a possibility that your body is tired? 锟紼xercise is great but
> you mentioned "vigorous"?
> Are you working your mind or body too much? 锟絀 tried exercise during
> those early days but noticed
> that I was more anxious. Initially exercise can raise anxiety. Is this
> a new thing for you?
> Just curious. Vigorous exercise, contrary to popular belief, is not
> easy on the body.
> One has to wean onto it gradually, especially if they haven't done it
> that hard before.
I've been exercising vigorously for over 25 years. I was in the Army
for 20 and did it almost every day. Kept it up after I retired. I find
it great for stress relief and managing depression. I'm not an
"overtrainer" - I rest when I need to.
MightyJoe36
> MightyJoe36 schreef:
>
> > Went to see my psychiatrist today. Told him about switching my meds
> > back to Klonopin 3x a day and Cymbalta at night. His response - "if
> > it's working keep on doing it." He did warn me that my body would
> > develop a tolerance to Klonopin after a while and I may start
> > experiencing the anxiety again,but it's working now so I'll cross that
> > bridge if and when I come to it.
>
> > Joe
>
> And you'll probably never get there. I don't know why benzophobes keep
> on saying that while there is overwhelming evidence that this is most
> unusual among anxiety sufferers. Don't worry about it.
>
> Philip
Probably just trying to cover their asses. I'm not worrying about it.
This is the best I've felt in months, anxiety and stress-wise.
Thanks,
Joe
Gloria Wolfe
much the better. We just have "today"; the future will take care of
itself. Nanny
On 11/18/2009 12:32 PM, might...@gmail.com wrote to All:
-> Went to see my psychiatrist today. Told him about switching my meds
-> back to Klonopin 3x a day and Cymbalta at night. His response - "if
-> it's working keep on doing it." He did warn me that my body would
-> develop a tolerance to Klonopin after a while and I may start
-> experiencing the anxiety again,but it's working now so I'll cross that
-> bridge if and when I come to it.
->
-> Joe
->
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-> ========== Please DELETE this text block when replying! ==========
-> Contact the moderators at: asapm...@stump.algebra.com
-> The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
-> ========= This notice is added to each approved article ==========
->
V*nessa
"Marie" <ane...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ef47f3f0-6a37-4a0c...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 2, 3:14 pm, MightyJoe36 <mightyjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> During this time, the panic attacks came back in spite of the
>> Klonopin. Now it wasn't just driving home from work anymore, now it's
>> almost every time I drive anywhere on the highway.
>
> This seems to be situational panic, not true panic disorder.
>From my experience situational panic can quickly develop into an anxiety
and/or panic disorder. Avoiding situations can lead to general feelings of
anxiety which then develop into out of the blue panic attacks.
V
MightyJoe36
wrote:
> "Marie" <ane...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:ef47f3f0-6a37-4a0c...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 2, 3:14 pm, MightyJoe36 <mightyjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> During this time, the panic attacks came back in spite of the
> >> Klonopin. Now it wasn't just driving home from work anymore, now it's
> >> almost every time I drive anywhere on the highway.
>
> > This seems to be situational panic, not true panic disorder.
> >From my experience situational panic can quickly develop into an anxiety
>
> and/or panic disorder. Avoiding situations can lead to general feelings of
> anxiety which then develop into out of the blue panic attacks.
>
Happy Thanksgiving all. Had a great long weekend. Drove up to
Cleveland and back (a 3-hour highway trip each way) with almost no
anxiety whatsoever. Either the meds are working again, or I'm getting
a handle on this thing again, or both.
Thanks again to all for your continued support.
Joe
weeks
I am very happy for you with the drive. Driving is my worst situation with
anxiety and I know how important it it.
Keep up the terrific job!!!
smiles,
Elise
"MightyJoe36" <might...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0cd2221d-8b49-4dff...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
V*nessa
"MightyJoe36" <might...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0cd2221d-8b49-4dff...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> wrote:
>> "Marie" <ane...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:ef47f3f0-6a37-4a0c...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Nov 2, 3:14 pm, MightyJoe36 <mightyjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> During this time, the panic attacks came back in spite of the
>> >> Klonopin. Now it wasn't just driving home from work anymore, now it's
>> >> almost every time I drive anywhere on the highway.
>>
>> > This seems to be situational panic, not true panic disorder.
>> >From my experience situational panic can quickly develop into an anxiety
>>
>> and/or panic disorder. Avoiding situations can lead to general feelings
>> of
>> anxiety which then develop into out of the blue panic attacks.
>>
>
> Happy Thanksgiving all. Had a great long weekend. Drove up to
> Cleveland and back (a 3-hour highway trip each way) with almost no
> anxiety whatsoever. Either the meds are working again, or I'm getting
> a handle on this thing again, or both.
>
> Thanks again to all for your continued support.
>
> Joe
Way to go Joe :)