I am back with questions
Len Ball
I have not written for a while as like all of you my hands are
very full. Just to remind you, my mother, who is very advanced
is living with my wife and myself. Things have been tolerable
for the last few months but, have been degrading quickly.
As it turns out, this was not revealed until lately, is my mother
has had 2 sisters and my Grand Mother all died with Alzheimers.
My mother is one of 18 children. She has 7 living brothers and sisters.
Her family lives in Montreal and are requesting that my mother come
live out her life there with them. She would has much better care then we
could ever offer. Her family is very well off and she is still covered under
the socialized medical plan, she would live in a large home with a personal
attendant, her brothers and sisters around all day etc....
Problem #1, she refuses to go. The reason being she is in love with her
old mailman in San Jose, where she used to live. Of course this is a
delusion, he is 38, married with 2 children. In her mind he used to
bring her presents everyday and leave them in their special place.
We have figured out the presents were the mail and the special place
was the mailbox. She believes he loves her and has delusions he calls her
and tells her things etc....She refuses to leave the house and even though
she will not say it, this is because she is awaiting a phone call from him.
How do we proceed? Any suggestions?
Our other option is day-care evolving into permanent placement. We have a
place
called Primrose who offers day care, we just can no longer afford to stay
home
with her, she refuses to go. She gets into this "I am a human too and you
treat me like
a child", "I have rights and these rights allow me to do what I want and
don't
want to do", when I get home in the evening she rants that she can not take
sitting
home any longer and wants things to do.......
I/we have read several books on being caretakers to someone with Alzheimer's
but, it doesn't address these types of issues....
Help?????
len...@cableone.net
len....@motionanalysis.com
Please respond to my e-mail addresses or CC them if responding to
the group. My net time is limited due to the time I have of my own.
Thanks all and happy holidays.
--
Leonard A. Ball
VP Operation
Motion Analysis Corp
707-579-6508 Direct
707-578-8473 Fax
800-317-7875 Pager
len....@motionanalysis.com
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www.motionanalysis.com
"We bring your thoughts to life"
Starword
Len Ball wrote in message ...
(clipping)
>Problem #1, she refuses to go. The reason being she is in love with her
>old mailman in San Jose, where she used to live. Of course this is a
>delusion, he is 38, married with 2 children. In her mind he used to
>bring her presents everyday and leave them in their special place.
>We have figured out the presents were the mail and the special place
>was the mailbox. She believes he loves her and has delusions he calls her
>and tells her things etc....She refuses to leave the house and even though
>she will not say it, this is because she is awaiting a phone call from him.
>How do we proceed? Any suggestions?
Excuse me, Len, but ROFLMAO!!!! So sorry...I honestly don't mean to make
light of your situation. I can see that it is troubling you greatly. But
when I read this I just couldn't contain myself...it's just so hysterical.
Their delusions can be so funny at times.
I'm reminded of an event that occurred a couple of years ago, before we got
dad into assisted living. He has this photo that was taken of him on the day
the end of the war (WWII) was announced. He was in active duty at the time
and the photo is of him in uniform, leaning up against the back of a jeep,
holding up a bottle of champagne, which was being distributed to the troops.
We had always loved that photo and I really wanted to get a copy of it. A
couple of years ago, we were visiting and I found that he had gotten a whole
stack of copies made of that photo...they were like xerox copies, but good
quality. I asked if I could have one and he said yes. When I got the photo
home, I took it in for professional framing and they really did a nice job
w/ it. When I got it back, I called to let him know about it, mistakenly
believing he would be pleased. Instead, he became irrate and began cussing
me out. I was completely shocked. Then he called everyone in the family and
told them I had "stolen" his favorite photo of himself,. sold it to Life
Magazine for $15,000 and was probably going to get rich from its sale.
How he got all that out of me telling him I'd paid someone to frame a copy
of the photo of him for me, I'll never know. What an imagination! Sure wish
it was true and not all a product of his deluded mind. We could use the
money!
But, back to your problem. Reading between the lines (which isn't hard since
you're feelings are pretty overt), it sounds like you'd like to take your
mother's family up on their offer and have her move there. I think that's
fine too...no reason she HAS to stay w/ you and you're not being a bad or
less dutiful son by allowing the move. They want her there and they are in
an even better position than you to provide well for her the rest of her
days and it would greatly ease the burden on you, then there's no way it can
be anything but good for all concerned. I think it's wonderful they even
want to do this and are offering.....they sound like really wonderful
people. Many on this ng are not nearly so fortunate to have caring family
members who VOLUNTEER to get involved, let alone take over the CGing.
If you're comfortable w/ accepting their help and the situation they offer,
than I think you ought to grab it up while it's on the table. Caring for an
AD person is about as stressful as anything can be (from what I've learned
reading posts here) and any help you can get is a godsend.
Now...the question is, how to get her to go when she vehemently refuses. I
am now about to introduce you to Karen L's philosophy crash course on how to
deal w/ a recalcitrant AD loved one. The crib notes break it down simply to
this:
1) AD is a nasty, vicious disease that knows no bounds or scruples and is
out to destroy your LO and all in his/her wake (which includes you,
naturally, and everyone in your life).
2) AD is the enemy; the enemy is not you or your loved one. You cannot fight
an enemy like AD w/o being prepared to resort to whatever tactics are
necesary and at hand to advance whatever purpose you are trying to achieve.
3) Because AD is an enemy knowing no bounds or scruples, you cannot
successfully fight it and do what you have to do to help your afflicted
loved one by remaining a principled and ethical person in your strategies
against it. Therefore, whatever you have to do to get your loved one in a
safe place, or to secure the situation, or to keep your own life from being
crushed and destroyed is completely, 100% permissable. I'm not talking
murder here, of course, but I am talking deceit, trickery, forgery, feeding
into and playing off their fantasies and delusions...whatever it takes.
On this battlefield, all the normal rules of ethical behavior and
appropriate conduct we've always learned do NOT apply. In this war, the good
guy will be crushed and destroyed....and AD is not the good guy. So you
can't be the good guy either.
I may get flamed big time for this, but here's my advice: set up everything
necessary for the move. Start, if it's easiest for you all, by telling Mom
you're going to "visit" the relatives. Have her stuff boxed up and shipped
there secretly, if you'll think she'll notice. If you think she's too
oblivious to such things, just pack them up and bring them along. She
probably doesn't have all that much to bring, I would guess anyway. You can
always arrange to ship other stuff later, if necessary.
Take her up there, stay as long as YOU plan to (a day, a week, an hour,
whatever) and then tell her goodbye when you're ready to go. If she acts
like she thinks she's going back w/ you, tell her very directly that she
will be living there now and make it clear to her that you have no idea why
she thinks she should be going back w/ you. Be nice, but firm. Tell her
goodbye and let her family who are taking over the situation deal w/ how she
handles it after you're gone.
You probably will feel pretty terrible doing this, but this is how it has to
be, and you just have to keep telling yourself that. My husband said he had
to get out of the car and throw up after they left his father off at the
assisted living facility. They tricked him into thinking he was just going
to "see" the place again. He and his brother brought their dad's suitcases
and misc. up in a separate car from the one the other brother was driving
dad in. They got there first w/ the stuff and unpacked things in his new
room. When dad arrived, his room was all set up w/ his things. They stayed a
while, then said goodbye and left. He was very confused and somewhat upset,
but he survived the transition, and my husband and his brothers survived
doing something that made them physcially and emotionally ill.
Tricking was the only way to get him to go. Had he not gone, he would have
met some horrible end in that house and that would have made all concerned
far more sick and ill.
Your mom will survive this transition too...as will you.
Suggestion #2 (the backup plan): If your mother absolutely refuses to visit
her family (and I'll lay wages you can talk her into the visit idea), I say
in total seriousness that the next step will be to use her delusion/fantasy
about the mailman to get her to go. Tell her he's going to be there or will
come to see her there....if it takes "writing" a letter from him, telling
her to go there to meet him, you have my permission to resort to what would
in other circumstances seem like a low and underhanded trick.
In fact, I will be happy to write the letter for you, if it will help.
Several people here recently told me I write good letters (I posted a
suggested one for another problem last week or so) and I will be happy to do
this for you, if it makes it easier for you. You just need to contact me
privately and send me your mom's name and snail mail address and I will get
out a heart-felt, hand-written love letter to your mom in short order,
pleading w/ her to make my dreams come true and meet me at __________ (you
supply destination).
I am dead serious about this. I absolutely will do it, if it will help.
The delusion makes no sense and is not likely to remain permanently. In
fact, she may forget about it in weeks or months...maybe even days. The
delusion is another dirty trick of the Enemey (AD) to make your life (and
your mother's) miserable, because it gets in the way of a plan that will be
to the better in the end, for both of you. So fight fire w/ fire, dirty
trick w/ dirty trick. Use the trick to your advantage by building on it to
help you get your mom to make this move cheerfully and
enthusiastically...which will be better for all concerned; better for her,
most certainly...also better for you. You will be giving her something to
look forward to and it's not cruel because she will forget it over
time...probably pretty quickly.
It's not like tricking your 9-yr-old into going to boarding school, which
will hurt him deeply when he discovers the truth and which he'll remember
all his life. This is your AD mom we're talking about and it's highly
unlikely she will retain this memory very long. Very soon, I have no doubt,
she will look for messages or wait for calls from her fantasy lover at her
new home and be just as convinced she will hear from him there as she is in
your home now.
The one "positve" aspect of all the confusion of the AD (if you can call it
a positive aspect) is that it makes it easier to trick them into things. You
may as well use that aspect to your advantage when you can...if you need to.
My recommendation is to try the "visit" strategy first....but be fully
prepared to put into action the Building on Delusion deception strategy if
necessary.
I just know I'm going to get flames for this, but I'm donning my asbestos
suit and am posting this as well as CCing it to you (per your request)
because I think others here may benefit from this hard-earned wisdom I've
come by.
You've already tried discussing openly and honestly w/ your mom about making
the move. That strategy didn't work. Now you have to resort to less straight
tactics. Sadly, this is what it takes a lot of the time in accomplishing
what you need or must w/ an AD person. You MUST learn to recognize this. The
moment you have a surge of guilt and shame over any of it, tell yourself
this: It's not Mom I'm lying to, deceiving, tricking...it's the AD I'm doing
it to. The AD is the enemy and this is how I must fight it. It's a
relentless, evil opponent and it deserves whatever arsenal I have to use
thrown at it.
Did you ever see the movie The Exorcist? The devil takes over/possesses this
little girl and the mother hires these priests to exorcise the devil from
the child's body. Sci-fi/horror yes, but I think AD is pretty well akin to
demonic possession. This evil force enters the mind of someone you love and
once knew and changes him/her into a totally different person...one that
poses a danger to himself and maybe others, too...destroying everything in
its wake.
Tragically, there is no exorcism ritual to rid our AD los of their demons.
The best we can do is "manage" the situation in whatever way is necessary to
protect the person we love and all who are around him/her. So if you have to
"trick" the AD demon into doing something, and you can do it, you must
remember that you are doing it for the ultimate good of your loved one.
>Our other option is day-care evolving into permanent placement. We have a
>place called Primrose who offers day care, we just can no longer afford to
stay
>home with her, she refuses to go. She gets into this "I am a human too and
you
>treat me like a child", "I have rights and these rights allow me to do what
I want and
>don't want to do", when I get home in the evening she rants that she can
not take
>sitting home any longer and wants things to do.......
Well, if she moves in w/ her other family, this won't be an issue anymore.
If you're really confident that these people can be trusted and will provide
a safe and compassionate environment for her, then I see this as
preferrable. I say this because it sounds like her presence in your home is
becoming an increasing and insurmountable burden and I am a firm believer in
people having a right not to have their lives wrecked out of some misplaced
sense of duty...at least when there are other, acceptable options.
My personal view is that it will be easier to trick her into the move to the
relatives than to attend a daily program, which will involve getting her out
of the house every day and maybe a big scene each time. That sounds pretty
nightmarish to me. OTOH, it's possible if you *could* convince her to go to
try it out, she just might like it and then you wouldn't have to fight her
each day...she may look forward to going. I guess you could try that first,
if you want. But her other family wants her and it sounds like you feel they
could provide a good environment for her.
If you really prefer to try the "Primrose" path, you could use the same
mailman fantasy strategy, I suppose. You could tell her he'll be going there
to visit her or is leaving messages there for her...or will call her there.
If she gets into going there and finds she likes it, maybe you won't have to
keep up the charade. But if she doesn't like it and becomes convinced her
"lover" won't call for her there, she may refuse to keep going and then
you'd be back where you started from.
Quite seriously, I would consider the move to the other family members. It's
easier to use the trick strategy to accomplish a one-time compliance to
something than an ongoing.
>I/we have read several books on being caretakers to someone with
Alzheimer's
>but, it doesn't address these types of issues....
That's because I haven't finished writing mine yet. <g> I'll be sure to let
you all know when it hits amazon.com. ;o)
>Help?????
I hear you, buddy! It really reeks sometimes, doesn't it?
Write me directly if you need any morale boosting to see your plan through
or if I can help as a co-conspirator, or in any other way. The purpose of
this ng, IMO, is to be there for each other and I'm happy to do what I can.
Karen L.
zuzu
Starword wrote in message <84923o$ro1$1...@eve.enteract.com>...
>>I/we have read several books on being caretakers to someone with
Alzheimer's but, it doesn't address these types of issues....
Karen is right, you'll probably have to lie. don't feel bad about it, just
be ready to do it. personally, my dad said he wouldn't move either, but when
it came time to, he helped me load the truck and then got in....lol
>That's because I haven't finished writing mine yet. <g> I'll be sure to let
you all know when it hits amazon.com. ;o)
well you sure got a good start on it, girl! ;-)
Karen S
> Len Ball wrote in message ...
>
Starword wrote ...
>
> ... In fact, I will be happy to write the letter for you, if it
will help.
> ... make my dreams come true and meet me at __________
LOL!!! Good one, Karen. Len, I think this is a fabulous idea.
Zuzu got her dad to stop driving by writing a letter for the
Motor Vehicle people. He got awards and certificates. It was
very creative and it worked. I've said it before and I say it
again. Thou may bear false witness FOR your neighbor! And
certainly for you AD loved one. No holds barred. You gotta do
it.
zuzu
Karen S wrote in message <84ammv$os1$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
>LOL!!! Good one, Karen. Len, I think this is a fabulous idea.
>Zuzu got her dad to stop driving by writing a letter for the
>Motor Vehicle people. He got awards and certificates. It was
>very creative and it worked. I've said it before and I say it
>again. Thou may bear false witness FOR your neighbor! And
>certainly for you AD loved one. No holds barred. You gotta do
>it.
yup, that's me, the "California Retired Driver's Association"
can't say it was the first time I lied to my dad (I was a rotten teenager,
boy) but it was the first time I ever did it and felt great about it and
bragged about pulling it off. and at my age.....lol....when we got ready to
move here, he did get in the truck when we were ready to go (God knows all
of us were holding our breath on THAT one) but if he'd have balked at all, I
would have told I needed him to help me drop this stuff off down the road a
bit and then driven as far and as fast as I could! I was actually prepared
for a fight to get him in the truck and that he might raise holy hell for
the next 714 miles. As it turned out, the retired truck driver in him kicked
in, and when I did have to stop for gas and to pee, he'd say, why are you
stopping, JUST DRIVE. made the best time I'd ever made on that trip, even
packing dad and my parents lifetime accumulation of stuff in the UHaul
truck. I still can't hardly believe it. the most bizarre road trip I've ever
done. people at both ends wondering how it was going, cos we all knew it
could go very bad. no way to call them and let them know, and they were all
sweating bullets. the Safe Return people had been called, and knew the old
address, the new address, and the route, in case he got loose on the way.
dad and I came down off the Grapevine, and a Bakersfield radio station
started to come in and they were playing Steppenwolf's "Born to be Wild" and
dad looked at me and said "this is FUN!" I headed up I-5 and JUST DROVE.
Starword
zuzu wrote:
>Karen S wrote:
>>Thou may bear false witness FOR your neighbor! And
>>certainly for you AD loved one. No holds barred. You gotta do
>>it.
>yup, that's me, the "California Retired Driver's Association"
>can't say it was the first time I lied to my dad (I was a rotten teenager,
>boy)
LOL! Yeah, you and me both, kiddo. But my husband and his brothers were
disgustingly good kids and didn't, as a rule, lie to their parents. They
were always very honest w/ each other. They are all extremely honorable and
moral men. The last thing they wanted to do was lie to their dad and trick
him into the move. But when push came to shove, they knew it was their only
option...things had to be done and he wasn't making it easy. We had to get
him to sign the residency agreement for the AL facility...it was just a
legality for that level of care. In AL setting, POA can't sign LO in as they
can into a NH. Once they get the signature, there's no problem keeping the
resident there even if they start to scream about wanting to leave.
I was talking to the administrator on the phone before the move happened and
we were discussing the problem. She said something very interesting, which
was, "He doesn't have to sign it in front of us...there doesn't have to be
witnesses. Any way you can get him to sign it is up to you. No questions
will be asked."
I understood her meaning completely and immediately. I relayed the
conversation to my husband and he discussed it w/ his brothers. They agreed
that if Keith refused to sign, they would trick him into signing it or
resort to one of them forging dad's sig. It was that simple. They really
didn't want to do that, though, and tried reasoning first. Peter came very
close to getting his dad to sign, but Keith hesitated at the last second and
asked for a little while longer to think about it. They set up a meeting for
Keith w/ his personal atty the next morning. They all attended, but the atty
suggested he and his client meet privately for a while and told the brothers
to go out and get some coffee. They returned in about an hour. Keith was
slumped down in the chair, looking absolutely spent. His eyes and face were
swollen and red from crying. The atty, who had known Keith and been a
personal friend for 20 yrs, looked extremely grim and also appeared to have
wept. Very little was said. The document lay on the desk, signed by Keith.
No one knows what was said in that meeting and no one wants to know. They
brought Keith home and he went straight to bed and slept many hours,
although it was early in the day. Peter now says he wonders if it was worth
putting dad through that and that maybe they should have lied to him about
what he was signing, or forged the sig. He claimed not to remember signing
it or agreeing to the move a couple of days later and it put all of them
through a lot of pain and suffering to get that stupid little sig. Also, the
atty later billed us for $500, having had to reschedule a court appearance
that morning for another client in order to accommodate the urgent nature of
our situation. LOL! Peter could have forged the thing for free! In fairness
to the atty, however, it was no doubt the hardest-earned $500 he ever made.
>would have told I needed him to help me drop this stuff off down the road a
>bit and then driven as far and as fast as I could! I was actually prepared
>for a fight to get him in the truck and that he might raise holy hell for
>the next 714 miles.
LOL! I hear ya sister!
>As it turned out, the retired truck driver in him kicked
>in, and when I did have to stop for gas and to pee, he'd say, why are you
>stopping, JUST DRIVE.
ROFLOL!!! So nice he got into the spirit of the thing.
>dad and I came down off the Grapevine, and a Bakersfield radio station
>started to come in and they were playing Steppenwolf's "Born to be Wild"
and
>dad looked at me and said "this is FUN!" I headed up I-5 and JUST DROVE.
LOL!!! Perfect! Nothing like the right background music to set the
mood....especially for a big highway trip.
Thanks for sharing this wonderful story w/ us Kim. Sure put a smile on my
face this afternoon, and Lord knows I can always use one of those. So great
to know the move came out much better than you anticipated it might and that
Louie had actual FUN doing it! Who can ask for more?
It's actually very cute and sweet....I think you're right about the retired
truck driver in him coming out in that trip and getting into the spirit of
his old life....when his mind was whole and he was doing what he did to make
a living. Even though he wasn't behind the wheel for that one, his old
instincts were there and he was able to access the experience vicariously on
the passenger side. I'm not surprised he found it fun.
Great story, Zu!
Karen L.
Starword
Starword
Mare
Marianne
Len Ball wrote in message ...
>
>
>I/we have read several books on being caretakers to someone with Alzheimer's
>but, it doesn't address these types of issues....
>