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Quantum Suicide Groundhog Day Paradoxical Dilemma

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Pontifex Maximus

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Sep 9, 2001, 9:29:22 PM9/9/01

Okay, here's my dilemma... In the "Many Worlds"
theory of quantum physics, popularized by David Deutsch
and others, (<http://www.qubit.org/>), our conscious selves inhabit
an infinite realm of parallel universes: a "multiverse." Now, over
the many years wherein I've contemplated suicide, and the countless
times I've decided to *finally* end my life, what if I actually did?
What if there is a seamless continuity to sentience, so that no
matter how many times you commit suicide and actually "die," your
multiversal "self" continues uninterrupted. Seems like a cruel fate
for consciousness to have no escape... but what if it's true?!
Who-are-we to suffer such an endless fate? And what does
it mean?!! http://www.stormfax.com/ghogday.htm#Movie
http://www.qubit.org/people/david/Articles/PhilosophyNow.html

Is Quantum Evolution The New Science Of Life?
http://unisci.com/stories/20001/0204006.htm

"In quantum mechanics, everything that can happen will
happen. When an electron or proton is placed at a
crossroads where it can travel to the right or to the left,
it goes both ways.

"In quantum systems, fundamental particles exist as
ghostly 'superpositions' where they can be in a billion
different places at once or in a billion different states
at once.

"Physicists don't understand quantum mechanics.
Nobody can agree on what it really means for
our view of reality. In some interpretations,
observations by conscious beings make the world
'real.' In others, signals travel backward in time to
connect every particle in the universe.

"Today, one of the most popular interpretations,
and one that has the backing of Nobel prize-winning
physicists, is that there exists a multiverse in which
everything that can happen really does happen -- but
in parallel universes. Although our conscious self
inhabits only one branch of the multiverse -- our
own universe -- fundamental particles inhabit the entire
multiverse. It is this property that allows them to
occupy multiple places or states simultaneously:
Each place or state is in a parallel universe.

"Quantum mechanics rules the dynamics of electrons,
protons and other fundamental particles.
But it has come as a surprise to many scientists
that it also holds sway over bigger systems.

"German scientists have recently demonstrated
that a single fullerene molecule, composed of a
sphere of 60 carbon atoms (the famous 'buckyball'),
can be in two places at once.

"Few physicists doubt that as the technology
advances, bigger and more complex systems will
be shown to inhabit the quantum world.
Fullerene molecules have a diameter similar to
that of the DNA double helix. If fullerenes can
enter the quantum multiverse, then DNA can
manage the same trick." <snip>
http://unisci.com/stories/20001/0204006.htm

NEC Research Institute - Physical Science Research Activities
http://www.neci.nj.nec.com/neci-website/research-ps.html#Optics

***

Quantum Physics, abstract quant-ph/9805040
Optical Tachyons in Parametric Amplifiers:
How Fast Can Quantum Information Travel?
http://arXiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9805040

Transhuman/Posthuman Web Report:
http://www.google.com/search?q=transhuman

D E L U SI O N A L E P I L E P T I C S U P D A T E !

"...[Don't] let these guys
get behind you. They are tricky. And their
elfin humor may not be your idea of a good
time. http://deoxy.org/timemind.htm

[] [] P L O N K
[]
[] <<<http://www.infowars.com/bg7.html>>>
[]
[] Haven't the delusional epileptics amongs us suffered enough
[] at the hands of the relentless confused chaotic forces
[] of distraught Find Mucking pseudo-sentient Owl Worshipping
[] tripartisan janitorial bookkeepers all hell bent on
[] implimenting the dreaded Plan 9 from Outer Space?!
[] It's ALL THERE in that insidious, trashy Ed Wood movie!!
[] I shit you NOT! http://www.4rie.com/rie%207.html
[]
[] T H E D A N G E R L I E S W I T H I N
[]
[] Yes. The delusional epileptics,
[] by current medical definition, must
[] never support the long-term presence
[] or inhabitation of non-Aliens.
[] The delusional epileptics are clearly
[] willing to disassociate for their beliefs.
[] They will not change this stance in the
[] forseeable future. Therefore, it is probably
[] incumbent upon all non-epileptics to study their
[] mindset, their beliefs and behaviors, as objectively
[] as possible. One can only presume that if any ETs are
[] in the neighborhood, they will likewise be engaged in
[] similar careful study of.............................?

If the density of the universe exceeds a certain threshold known as
the critical density, this gravitational attraction is strong enough
to stop and later reverse the expansion of the universe, causing it
eventually to recollapse in what is known as the "Big Crunch."
/.../
For quite some time it has been known
that the mean density of our universe
agrees with the critical density to
within better than a factor of ten.
Even with such large margin of error
this agreement is remarkable.
Establishing initial conditions so
that the mean density remains close
to the critical density for more than
a fleeting moment is much like trying
to balance a pencil on its point.
A universe initially with slightly
subcritical density rapidly becomes
increasingly subcritical and soon
virtually indistinguishable from
an empty universe. Similarly, an ever
so slightly supercritical universe
rapidly collapses into a Big Crunch,
never reaching the old age of our
universe---somewhere around twelve
billion years. To obtain a universe
like ours seems to require fine
tuning of the initial density to
agree with the critical density to
an accuracy around one part in 10^60!
[That's a "ten" with sixty zeros]
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/inf_lowden.html

C U B E
http://cubethemovie.com/CBSeal.html

Verily... A Ten with Sixty Zeros "chance" for
the initial density to "agree" with the critical
density, to inflate a life-nurturing universe
versus an empty universe, seems to suggest a
specific fine-tuning of the original conditions...
(a 1 in 10 to the power of 60 chance): Eternity
has nothing but Time to impliment such myriad
varieties. On the other hand, perhaps an advanced
technology from a previous successful universe
has found a way to perform these precise calculations
for fine tuning many universes for scientific
study and maybe even entertainment or motives
entirely incomprehensible to us clever primates?

Will we do likewise?

Brookhaven National Laboratory
http://www.rhic.bnl.gov/

Time Travel Research Center
http://www.time-travel.com/links.htm

D E L U S I O N A L E P I L E P T I C S U P D A T E !

http://www.stormfax.com/ghogday.htm#Movie
http://www.generalsemantics.org/
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/specularium/images/binder.gif
http://deoxy.org/timemind.htm
http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/soma.html
http://www.sokaren.se/INDEX9.HTML
http://www.koryaks.net/biblio-siberia.html
http://www.booklist.com/DMT.html
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_info2.shtml
http://www.osmond.com/marie/images/marie-purple-bg2.jpg
http://www.sirius.com/~holy/mushroom.html
http://www.primenet.com/~subru/Ancient_wisdom.html
http://www.tradeport.org/ts/countries/egypt/isa/isar0013.html
http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/tors/
http://planetary.org
http://mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/lander
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews
http://marslander.jpl.nasa.gov
http://www.quest.arc.nasa.gov/ltc/mars/polar.html
http://www.biospherics.com/mars/spie/spiehtml.htm
http://www.enn.com/enn-news-archive/1999/12/123099/bug_8637.asp
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast14dec99_1.htm
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20000410S0057
http://www.heise.de/tp/english/special/glob/6556/1.html
http://www.space.com/news/snakebots_000504.html
ftp://ftp.sas.com/pub/neural/FAQ3.html#A_bayes
http://www-poleia.lip6.fr/ANIMATLAB/SAB2000/
http://www.egroups.com/messages/machine-learning/
http://www.cgjung.com/
http://www.levity.com/techgnosis/techgnosis.html
http://www.egroups.com/group/Robot-for-President
http://www.oreilly.com/people/staff/stevet/netfuture/
http://www.iijnet.or.jp/iriz/irizhtml/zenart/10ox.htm
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/May00/DNAseparator.ws.html
http://www.sandia.gov/media/NewsRel/NR2000/canals.htm
http://www.sigmaxi.org/amsci/articles/00articles/Goodsell.html
http://www.foresight.org/Conferences/MNT8
http://www.foresight.org/FI/2000Feynman.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/nyu-ncd052200.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/nyu-ncd052200.html
http://www.boston.com/globe/offbeat/daily/12/amphibians_declining.shtml
http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research/chiao/research.html
http://www.neci.nj.nec.com/neci-website/research-ps.html#Optics
http://arXiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9805040
http://hubble.stsci.edu
http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/2000/06/pr-photos.html
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal.shtml
http://deoxy.org/omega.htm
http://www.doctechnical.com/fst/img/itnw/itnw-b-l.jpg
http://www.trufax.org/w3.html
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/index.htm
http://www.zolatimes.com/JparArt/JackParsons.html
http://www.forteantimes.com/artic/132/parsons.html
http://www.subgenius.com/
http://www.rawilson.com/main.html
http://www.otohq.org/
http://otohq.org/oto/otohq.html
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~realoto/nclr.html
http://faust.irb.hr/~tust/Penta/BookOfLies.html
http://www.xeper.org
http://www.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/saturn.htm
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/1970-present.html
http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/discordians.html
http://w3.one.net/~browe/
http://www.nro.gov/
http://www.conspire.com/val.html
http://www.kerygma101.com/text/torture.html
http://www.savethechildren.org
http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/index.shtml
http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/answers/articles/X0030_I_Was_Abducted_By_Al.html

"Eat of this fruit and you will
become as God."
http://www.viewzone.com/aging.html

Bill Yeakel

unread,

Sep 9, 2001, 10:49:46 PM9/9/01

In alt.suicide.recovery Pontifex Maximus <maxpo...@yahoo.it> wrote:
> Okay, here's my dilemma... In the "Many Worlds"
> theory of quantum physics, popularized by David Deutsch
> and others, (<http://www.qubit.org/>), our conscious selves inhabit
> an infinite realm of parallel universes: a "multiverse." Now, over
> the many years wherein I've contemplated suicide, and the countless
> times I've decided to *finally* end my life, what if I actually did?
> What if there is a seamless continuity to sentience, so that no
> matter how many times you commit suicide and actually "die," your
> multiversal "self" continues uninterrupted. Seems like a cruel fate
> for consciousness to have no escape... but what if it's true?!
> Who-are-we to suffer such an endless fate? And what does
> it mean?!! http://www.stormfax.com/ghogday.htm#Movie
> http://www.qubit.org/people/david/Articles/PhilosophyNow.html
>

It is not true. Kill yourself and you will not see...

Scooter

unread,

Sep 10, 2001, 6:14:10 AM9/10/01

Your multitude of links aside, the many worlds theory is hardly a
popular one. Don't Sweat the Small Stuff.

Scootër

maxpo...@yahoo.it (Pontifex Maximus) wrote in message news:<d1eb8c80.01090...@posting.google.com>...

Tritt Mich

unread,

Sep 10, 2001, 7:15:50 AM9/10/01

maxpo...@yahoo.it (Pontifex Maximus) wrote in message news:<d1eb8c80.01090...@posting.google.com>...

Kill yourself! Life can't get worse! <very cynical>

Colin Winfrey

unread,

Sep 10, 2001, 3:44:12 PM9/10/01

tritt...@arschloch.de (Tritt Mich) wrote in message news:
<snip>

http://www.well.com/user/jct/index.html
"If you have the courage to touch life
for the first time, you will never know
what hit you. Everything man has
thought, felt and experienced is gone,
and nothing is put in its place."
http://www.well.com/user/jct/index.html

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Miguel+Newcastle+Jack+Sarfatti
<mailto:sarf...@well.com> once wrote:

[] 1. HANGING
[] 2 methods
[] 1. asphyxiation (dangle on end of rope for 10 minutes)
[] Time:5 to 10 minutes
[] Available: Rope, solid support 10 foot above ground
[] Certainty: Fairly certain (discovery, rope/support snapping)
[] Notes: Brain damage likely if rescued. Very painful
[] depending on rope. Most common EFFECTIVE form
[] of suicide. See later "Asphyxiation" section.
[] Someone did this about 10 meters from where I
[] was sleeping once. Worked perfectly.
[]
[] 2. breaking neck
[] Time:Should be instant if it does break. See previous if not
[] Available: Rope, solid support, 10 foot space below, several above
[] Certainty: Very certain if the rope/support doesn't break
[] Notes: Minimal danger of discovery (depends on location).
[] Painless if you drop far enough (8 foot is optimum).
[] Make sure that the rope is tied securely to something
[] STRONG!! It has to support your weight MULTIPLIED by
[] the force of the drop(in g). Use a hangman's knot
[] (with the knot at the back of your neck).
[]
[] 2. POISON
[] Availability of effective poisons restricted.
[] Normally painless, but depends on drug.
[] Large danger of discovery because slow.
[] Available compounds dangerous, have side effect if survived.
[] Fairly common, usually ineffective (depends on drug, dose and luck).
[] Takes from 10 seconds to fortnight or more.
[] In general, you need to stay away from medical help until you
[] actually die, but there are exceptions to this (that have been
[] pointed out in the text).
[]
[] Common drugs:
[]
[] Cyanide (HCN?)
[] Dosage: 50 mg Hydrogen Cyanide gas, 200-300 mg Cyanide salts
[] Time:seconds for HC, minutes Cs (empty stomach) hours
[] (full s)
[] Available: very difficult to get hold of
[] Certainty: very certain
[] Notes: It helps to have an empty stomach (since the
[] salts react with the stomach acids to form H.C.).
[] A full stomach can delay death for up to four
[] hours with the salts. Antidotes to cyanide
[] poisoning exist, but they have serious side
[] effects (they precipitate cyanide and similarly
[] shaped molecules from the blood stream.
[] This frequently blocks blood supply into toes,
[] ears... so you could lose one or two if you
[] are "rescued"). What you can do, is
[] instead of taking the salts directly, drop 500mg or so
[] into a strong acid, and inhale the fumes. This will be
[] pure Hydrogen Cyanide, and you should die in 10 to 20
[] seconds.
[] The following is something I saw on the net:
[] "Hydrocyanic acid is one of the most poisonous substances
[] known; the inhalation of its fumes in high concentration
[] will cause almost immediate death. Hydrogen cyanide acts
[] by preventing the normal process of tissue oxidation
[] and paralyzing the respiratory center in the brain. Most
[] of the accidental cases are due to inhaling the fumes
[] during a fumigating process. In the pure state it kills
[] with great rapidity. Crystalline cyanides, such as
[] potassium or sodium cyanide are equally poisonous, since
[] they interact with the hydrochloric acid in the stomach
[] to liberate hydrocyanic acid. This poison has been used
[] for both homicide and suicide; in recent history, a
[] number of European Political figures carried vials of
[] cyanide salt for emergency self-destruction aand some
[] used them. Death resulted from amounts of only a
[] fraction of a gram. A concentration of 1 part in 500 of
[] hydrogen cyanide gas is fatal. Allowable working concen-
[] tration in most of the United States is 20 ppm. Two and
[] one-half grains of liquid acid has killed. The acid acts
[] fatally in about 15 minutes. The cyanide salts kill in
[] several hours. The average dose of the solution is 0.1 cc.
[] Since this is an extremely rapid poison, rapid action is
[] necessary. Occasionally the victim may make a few voluntary
[] actions before death results or alarming symptoms set in.
[] Death results from paralysis of the respiration. When a
[] smaller dose is taken the symptoms are diziness, headache,
[] and shortness of breath followed by convulsions, coma,
[] and collapse.
[] If amyl nitrate is available, have the victim inhale it
[] immediately for 20 seconds. Have the victim swallow 2
[] tablespoonfuls of hydrogen peroxide. Have the victim
[] inhale ammonia. Administer oxygen."
[] [ed - cure sounds pretty bad.. drink bleach?? yuk]
[]
[] Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid?)
[] Dosage: 20-30+ grammes (too many cause vomitting)
[] Time:hours to days, variable
[] Available: easy to get hold of (get soluble ones, & dissolve them)
[] Certainty: unreliable
[] Notes: Not recommended, fatal dose varies wildly, could cause
[] liver & kidney damage instead of death. OD causes strange
[] noises in your ears (like a video arcade) & projectile
[] vomiting after about 10 hours. Medical help generally
[] effective, so stay out of hospital for a couple of days.
[] May cause bleeding in your stomach/upper intestines.
[] Take with sodium bicarbinate (eg, bicarb. of soda), which
[] speeds up the absorbtion (sp?) significantly.
[]
[] Paracetamol (aka acet[a|yl]minopren / tylenol)
[] Dosage: 15+ grammes, 20+ is better
[] Time:10 hours fatal damage, but 2 weeks to actually die
[] Available: easy to get hold of
[] Certainty: fairly reliable
[] Notes: Once 10-12 hours is up, you've had it, but you still live
[] for a week or two after that. Probably better to wait 15
[] hours just to make sure. Horrible side effects
[] during this time (some of which are: acute toxic hepatitis,
[] renal failure, cerebral oedema, intra-abdominal bleeding,
[] aspiration pneumonia, haemophilia). Too small dose causes
[] severe liver damage. Accidental deaths are very common.
[]
[] Sleeping tablets (don't know what kinds)
[] Dosage: 50+???
[] Time:unconsious in minutes, coma for hours or day,
[] death day or two. May survive coma.
[] Available: needs to be prescribed (in UK at any rate)
[] Certainty: semi-reliable, need to get dosage right
[] very reliable with plastic bag and rubber band
[] Notes: I don't have enough information about these. Combine
[] with an airtight plastic bag, and a rubber band to
[] get a very effective method. Also combine with half a
[] bottle of whisky, it helps.
[] May be quicker if you open up the capsules, and dissolve
[] the contents in water. May also mean that you won't puke
[] and lose the drug.
[] One of the teachers at my old school used barbiturates &
[] alcohol, they found her body in the morning.
[]
[] Alcohol (spirits preferably, your choice)
[] Dosage: 1/2 litre vodka?, similar. Varies from person to person.
[] Time:about 8 hours
[] Available: good
[] Certainty: unreliable
[] Notes: will cause liver and kidney damage if 'rescued'
[] before death. Drink it all at the same time, quickly
[] as possible. Dosage is questionable, I don't have
[] any figures. Taking the spirits as an enema is supposed
[] to be a very quick way of absorbing alcohol, but a less
[] unpleasant way is to inject it. The dosage it takes to
[] kill you depends on whether you drink normally, the
[] state of your liver, whether you pass out on your back
[] or not (and probably also the phase of the moon!).
[] The following is from sci.med (on USENET):
[] "The fatal dose of pure alcohol in an average adult is
[] 300-400 mL (750-1000 mL of 40% alcohol) if consumed in
[] less than one hour. Apart from the effects of overdosage,
[] death after alcohol consumption can occur as a result of
[] choking on vomit while unconscious. I don't believe any
[] permanent damage occured in the above case [ed - the poster
[] was talking about a specific case of a single very heavy
[] drinking session]. Consequences such as liver damage occur
[] after chronic consumption."
[]
[] Water
[] Dosage: gallons of the stuff (14 litres mentioned)
[] Time:12 hours or so?
[] Available: always available unless you're in Kuwait.
[] Certainty: so-so (not certain about this)
[] Notes: works by washing out the salts in your body, until
[] the cells fail (osmotic balance buggered up). You need
[] to keep drinking continually until you collapse. Unusual
[] method. Someone suggested it would also cause cramps.
[] The following is something from A.S.H., Dec. 1990.
[] "About a year ago a local newspaper carried a story about
[] a woman who had drunk herself to death. Apparently she
[] had injested something mildly poisonous, and when she
[] called her doctor asking him what to do, he told her to
[] drink lots of water and see him in the morning. She
[] got to it and managed to drink no less than 14 litres of
[] water before the osmotic balance in her body was so upset
[] it could no longer function and she died (don't know how
[] quickly)".
[]
[] Bleach and other corrosives
[] Dosage: A bottle (litre or half litre)
[] Time:Hours/days
[] Available: Easily available
[] Certainty: Uncertain
[] Notes: Bloody painful - depends on your stomach getting
[] corroded, the stomach acids escaping, and doing their
[] dirty work in your vital organs. Not really my cup of
[] tea...
[]
[] Insulin (injected)
[] Dosage: No idea
[] Time:Probably quite quickly into coma
[] Available: Difficult to get hold of unless you're a diabetic
[] or a vet
[] Certainty: Very certain if dose is high enough & not discovered
[] Notes: Supposed to be quite pleasant (eg insulin shock
[] treatments used for some psychiatric condition).
[]
[] Petrol (in lungs/injected)
[] Dosage: "A Thimble-full" -20 ml?
[] Time:Seconds/minutes
[] Available: Common
[] Certainty: I'm not sure of the dosage, but fairly certain if
[] correct
[] Notes: Can also use LPG (propane/butane) on skin surface (since
[] these are light enough to go through the skin). Stick your
[] hand in a bucket of propane and see how many seconds you
[] last...
[]
[] Oil of Wintergreen/Methyl Salicylate (in lungs/injected)
[] Dosage: Probably similar to petrol (20 ml)
[] Time:Don't know
[] Available: Not available in concentration
[] Certainty: Don't know
[] Notes: Don't have enough information on this one to be able
[] to say anything about it.
[]
[] Carbon Monoxide
[] Dosage: 5% concentration or so?
[] Time:Minutes to hours depending on concentration
[] Available: You get it out of a car exhaust, you used to be able
[] to use "town gas" (eg, stick your head in the cooker)
[] but this is no longer available
[] Certainty: Fairly certain, as long as you aren't "rescued"
[] Notes: Causes brain damage.
[]
[] Malathon (insecticide)
[] Dosage: A bottle (?)
[] Time:2 to 3 hours
[] Available: From a large garden centre or DIY shop
[] Certainty: probable, given correct dosage
[] Notes: Drink undiluted, shake bottle first since it settles.
[] it causes diarhoea after about half an hour.
[]
[] Caffiene
[] Dosage: 20 grammes
[] Time:not known
[] Available: Caffiene tablets available in Chemist shops
[] Certainty: don't know
[] Notes: I don't know very much about this.
[]
[] Nitrogen gas (or other inert gas)
[] Dosage: Several litres uncompressed is minimum
[] Time:Minutes
[] Available: Try plumber, or welding supplies company
[] Certainty: Certain
[] Notes: This is really a form of asphyxiation, (see later),
[] but is particularly good since you don't experience
[] the lack of oxygen (what people really experience is
[] the EXCESS of carbon dioxide).
[]
[] Potassium Chloride (injected in solution) / KCl
[] Dosage: not known (try 20cc injection of strong solution)
[] Time:Seconds to minutes
[] Available: Widely available
[] Certainty: Certain given correct dosage
[] Notes: Causes heart attack (which is painful). May be difficult
[] for coroner to realise it was suicide rather than a
[] natural heart attack. An excess of K+ in the blood
[] interferes with nerve signals, and stops muscles and
[] nerves from working. So when it reaches your heart, the
[] heart stops. Interesting to see what happens if you inject
[] it into your carotid artery, if it stops nervous tissue
[] from working.
[]
[] Rat poison (Warfarin)
[] Dosage: not known
[] Time:Hours to terminal damage, days to actual death
[] Available: Available
[] Certainty: Certain given suffient dosage
[] Notes: This is one of the truly unpleasant poisons, along with
[] Paracetamol/Acetylminopren. I think it causes cerebral
[] haemorage (rat poison works by giving the unfortunate rat
[] haemophillia). Doctors can't do anything about it, they
[] just leave you to die in agony on an intensive care ward.
[]
[] Chlorine gas
[] Dosage: not known - but probably sufficient generated in suggested
[] method
[] Time:not known
[] Available: Get about 4 litres of concentrated bleach, and the same
[] of ammonia
[] Certainty: Good
[] Notes: This was used in the first world war in the trenches, so
[] it's got to be effective. You go into a small room, block
[] off all the ventilation, and pour the bleach and ammonia
[] into a bucket. This produces chlorine, you breath it in,
[] and hey presto! I suspect that this is quite painful,
[] if you are "rescued" there is a danger of either lung
[] damage, or a slow lingering death.
[]
[] Digitalis (Foxglove extract?)
[] Dosage: not known
[] Time:Probably minutes
[] Available: Do foxgloves grow in your area?
[] Certainty: probably good given sufficient dosage
[] Notes: Gives you a heart-attack. UNDETECTABLE after death, so
[] if you don't want to let your friends/relatives to know
[] that your death was a suicide use this. I don't know
[] how to extract digitalis from foxglove, nor do I know
[] what the dosage is. Heart attacks are painful, but the
[] advantages in using an undetectable method make this
[] very attractive.
[]
[] Colchicine (Acetyltrimethylcolchicinic acid)
[] Dosage: 7 mg to 60 mg
[] Time:symptoms in about 4 hours, death in about 4 days
[] Available: Easily available (from large garden centre)
[] Certainty: certain
[] Notes: From the Autumn crocus (Colchicum Autumnale) /
[] royal lily (Gloriosa Superba). One flower of CA is
[] about 12 mg, so take at least five of them. 20g tuber
[] of GS provides 60mg, single seed of CA provides 3.5mg
[] (so take 18). Damages blood vessels and nerves, and
[] stops cell division. Don't know whether its painful or
[] not, but that bit about damaging nerves is worrying.
[] Best thing about this one is the name of the acid!
[]
[] Nicotine (yep - distilled fags!)
[] Dosage: extract from 100g tabacco(possibly 150mg pure)
[] Time:not known (possibly several seconds for 150mg pure)
[] Available: Easily available
[] Certainty: not known
[] Notes: Soak 100 grammes of tabacco for a few days. You get a
[] brown mess. Strain off the tabacco, then simmer slowly
[] until most of the liquid has gone, leaving about 2
[] teaspoons of brown treacle-like stuff. Add it to your
[] night-time drink, and never wake up. Someone said the
[] other day that 150mg of pure nicotine would be fatal in
[] seconds.
[]
[] Hydrazine
[] Dosage: As produced by reaction
[] Time:Not known, fortnight?
[] Available: Bottle of bleach & bottle of ammonia
[] Certainty: not known
[] Notes: Something quoted verbatim from the net:
[] "This is no joke, Dale. Several years ago at my high
[] school, one of the janitors innocently mixed together
[] half a bottle of bleach with half a bottle of of ammonia
[] in a small closet where the cleaning fluids were kept.
[] He passed out due to the hydrazine (not chlorine) gas
[] released in the reaction between the two chemicals. This
[] man was in agony for two weeks in an intensive care unit
[] in a local hospital with the majority of the inside
[] surface of his lungs damaged and untreatable before
[] he got lucky and died."
[] [ed - one of the more nasty methods]
[]
[] Cocaine
[] Dosage: 1 ounce (don't know what that is in real weights..)
[] Time:2 to 3 hours?
[] Available: Difficult
[] Certainty: not known
[] Notes: Read something in a newspaper... a coke dealer died
[] after eating an ounce of it, when the police raided
[] his house. Cause of death was a cardiac arrest 2 1/2
[] hours after the overdose.
[]
[] 3. JUMPING OFF BUILDINGS
[] Time:Instantanious if you are lucky, minutes/hours otherwise
[] Available: You need ten stories or higher, and access to the top floor
[] windows/roof. Bring a bolt cutter to get onto the roof
[] Certainty: 90% for 6 stories, increasing after that
[] Notes: Difficult to overcome fear of heights, many people can't do it.
[] Totally painless if high enough, but very frightening.
[] Easily discovered if seen on/near roof/windows. Access fairly
[] easy in a city, otherwise difficult. Risk of spending the
[] rest of your life in a wheelchair. Ever tried killing yourself
[] if you are paralysed from the neck down? Email conversations
[] suggest 10+ stories works ALMOST all of the time. Try to land
[] on concrete. Quote - "9 out of 10 people who fall 6 stories
[] will die"
[]
[] 4. SLITTING WRISTS OR OTHER (pathetic)
[] Time:Minutes if major artery cut, eternity otherwise
[] Available: You really need a razor sharp knife. Razors are pretty tricky
[]
[] to hold when they are covered with blood
[] Certainty: Uncertain if you cut an artery, highly improbable otherwise
[] Notes: Painful at first. Danger of discovery. This is a very common
[] suicide 'gesture' and hardly ever results in anything other
[] than a scar. A lot of will power required to cut deeply into
[] groin or carotid arteries, which are the only ones likely to
[] kill you. Don't bother with this method. Cutting your throat
[] is difficult due to the fact that the carotid arteries
[] are protected by your windpipe (feel where your arteries are
[] with your fingertips, & slice from the side). I've seen photos
[] of people who have used this method - the depth of the cut
[] required is amazing. If you want to cut your wrists, cut along
[] the blue line (vein) on the underside of your wrist, but cut
[] deeply so that the artery underneath is exposed. Cut this
[] lengthways with a razor or similar.
[]
[] 5. BULLET
[] Time:Microseconds unless you are unlucky (mins/hours)
[] Available: Difficult in UK, easier in USA (get a shotgun)
[] Certainty: Certain
[] Notes: Painless if worked, otherwise painful & brain damage.
[] Danger of discovery of weapon or ammunition.
[] Not at all common in UK, more common in USA where guns
[] available. Brain damage & other effects if you survive.
[] Death either instantaneous, or prolonged.
[] Lots of will power needed to fire gun ('hesitation marks'
[] are bullets/pellets embedded in the wall, when you jerk
[] the gun as you fire). Bullet can miss vital parts in skull,
[] deflect off skull.
[] NOTE, fill mouth with water, aim about 45 degrees from
[] vertical, this is reliable* since shockwave from water will
[] kill instantly.
[] *NOTE, several people have suggested that this is unreliable.
[] See "Shotgun" below (since much more effective).
[] Ammunition to use is: .458 Winchester Magnum, or soft-point
[] slugs with .44 Magnum. Also you could use a sabot round, which
[] is a plastic wedge with a smaller thing in it. These rounds are
[] rather overkill, the phrase "elephant gun" has been used about
[] the .458 Winchester, but if you're going to go, do it with
[] a bang
[]
[] 6. ASPHYXIATION
[] Time:5 mins to unconciousness, 10+ mins to brain death
[] Available: Anywhere there's a rope and something solid to tie it to
[] Certainty: Certain, if yoou don't get "rescued"
[] Notes: Panic reaction is very likely (unless inert gasses used).
[] One of the most effective and most used methods of suicide.
[] Probable brain damage if you are "rescued".
[] NOTE, this can only really be done in two ways: firstly,
[] when you are unconsious (eg, sleeping pills), or secondly,
[] by hanging. Combining with pure inert gasses is a very good
[] suggestion. See "Nitrogen" in the poisons section
[]
[] 7. AIR IN VEINS (basically just a myth)
[] Time:Eternity
[] Available: Plenty of air about... Need a hypodermic & syringe
[] Certainty: Almost zero (you might catch something from the needle)
[] Notes: This doesn't work, unless you inject absolutely massive
[] amounts of air (it all goes out of the lungs). Myth caused
[] by the way that doctors squirt a syringe before using it to
[] get rid of contaminants. If you have to try it, go for the
[] carotid artery, since this goes to the brain. If you want
[] a heart attack, you will have to inject something on the order
[] of 20-50ml every heart-beat (these are ball-park figures) for
[] several heart beats. Good luck
[]
[] 8. DECAPITATION
[] Time:Couple of seconds before conciousness fades
[] Available: Happen to have a train line nearby? Or a guillotine perhaps?
[] Certainty: Very certain, unless you pull away just before
[] Notes: See "jumping in front of trains". May be difficult to stop
[] pulling your head out of the way - OD on sleeping tablets
[] first
[]
[] 9. DISEMBOWELMENT (aka seppuku/hara kiri)
[] Time:Minutes
[] Available: Got a nice razor-sharp sword?
[] Certainty: Fairly certain, assuming that you managed to gut yourself
[] properly before passing out with the agony
[] Notes: Painful, even the Samurai used a 'second' to decapitate them
[] at the appropriate point, so don't expect to do much more than
[] give yourself peritonitis. Trendy for insane martial arts
[] fanatics and gay Japanese poets called Mishima.
[]
[] 10. DROWNING
[] Time:Minutes (usually 5 mins, but up to 20 mins in cold water)
[] Available: Anywhere there's deep water in a remote spot
[] Certainty: Good, just make sure you sink & can't swim
[] Notes: Put stones in your pockets, tie your legs & hands together,
[] and hop into the lake.. bit of a shock to the fisherman who
[] finds your rotting corpse stuck in his brand new net.
[]
[] 11. ELECTROCUTION
[] Time:Seconds / minutes
[] Available: Anywhere with high-tension, high-current lines & a good earth
[]
[] Certainty: Somewhat dependant on luck & how much power goes through you
[] Notes: Don't bother with 110 or 240 volt mains, its just not enough.
[] Some people do get killed with household electricity, but only
[] after several minutes. Use high tension lines, stand in bare
[] feet on waterlogged ground (better still, but a piece of THICK
[] copper cable into the nearest river). Works best if current
[] path travels through your head, or through the heart. Just
[] burns you badly otherwise.
[]
[] 12. EXPLOSIVES
[] Time:10 milliseconds, or similar (!)
[] Available: Difficult to get hold of detonator & good explosives
[] Certainty: Certain if detonator works properly
[] Notes: DON'T USE GUNPOWDER or other 'slow' explosives (eg,
[] homemade explosives). Use dynamite or 'Plastique', strap
[] it to your forehead with the detonator, and BOOM! The main
[] problem is with getting hold of high explosives (I know the
[] recipe for Nitro-Glycerine, but home manufacture is extremely
[] risky, and the product is unstable). If you can get a grenade,
[] use it, it's probably the best way of doing this one.
[]
[] 13. FREEZING TO DEATH
[] Time:several hours (15 minutes in very cold water)
[] Available: Got a large chest freezer? Is the outside temp < -10 degrees?
[]
[] Certainty: good if you don't get found
[] Notes: Soak your cloths in water, get into freezer / outside
[] somewhere where you won't be found. Helps to get pissed
[] first - drink yourself silly. If you are near a very
[] cold supply of water (eg, the North Sea, or similar) which is
[] close to zero degrees, this is particularly good, since the
[] average lifespan of someone in the water is 15 minutes.
[]
[] 14. JUMPING IN FRONT OF TRAINS
[] Time:Seconds (or hours if unlucky)
[] Available: Anywhere near a HIGH-SPEED railway line
[] Certainty: Depends on your timing & speed of train. Go for decapitation
[] Notes: Probably better to put your neck on the line, since a glancing
[] blow would probably break your spine (& cripple you). High
[] speed trains need a kilometer to stop, so find a blind corner.
[] A friend's cousin did this, worked well.
[]
[] 15. SELF-IMMOLATION
[] Time:Seconds to days
[] Available: Anywhere you can get petrol & a match
[] Certainty: good as long as you are far away from medical help
[] Notes: bloody painful - one of the most agonising ways to die.
[] If you do survive, you will be disfigured for the rest
[] of your life.
[] Try mixing the petrol with an explosive like TNT or NG,
[] this will make it burn MUCH quicker, even if the explosive
[] is very dilute. My Dad worked at a dynamite factory, and knew
[] someone who used to put TNT into his car (1 teaspoon per
[] gallon). It burned out the engine in a couple of months.
[]
[] 16. STARVING TO DEATH
[] Time:Typically a month, although depends on your health to
[] start with, and how much fat is available
[] Available: Anywhere where you can't be force-fed
[] Certainty: Certain as long as you never get any medical help (this is
[] trickier than it sounds)
[] Notes: Supposed to be easier after the first couple of days, since
[] your appetite goes. In a UK prison, you can't be force-fed
[] unless you give permission first, or are diagnosed insane,
[] but I don't know whether this is the same in other countries.
[] Beware - relatives might give permission on your behalf if you
[] are unconsious.
[]
[] 17. DRIVING INTO BRIDGE SUPPORT AT 100 MPH
[] Time:Hopefully instantanious
[] Available: Fast car, motorway, unprotected bridge....
[] Certainty: So-so, put a couple of cans of petrol on the passenger seat
[] to make it certain, & USE YOUR SEATBELT
[] Notes: Bridges are usually protected in the UK, don't know about USA.
[] Avoid being thrown out of the car by using the seatbelt, and
[] put petrol (in cans or just splashed about) near to the driver's
[] seat just to make certain.
[]
[] 18. SHOTGUN
[] Time:Instantanious if you are lucky
[] Available: Difficult in UK, easier in USA (due to gun laws)
[] Certainty: Fairly certain
[] Notes: 12-gauge shotgun with 3 inch Magnum shells with #2 to #000
[] buckshot. See "Bullet" for other points. This is the recommended
[] way to die by firearm. Apparently the shells suggested here
[] are "extreme overkill", but thats the point really...
[]
[] 19. ENLIST (silly)
[] Time:Jan 15 or later
[] Available: Just pop down to the local army office & sign on as a
[] squaddie
[] Certainty: Be a "hero". Life expectancy in a battle is 20 minutes
[] Notes: I don't think this is an entirely serious suggestion,
[] particularly since only 10% ever see the front line, and only
[] a few of those ever see combat.
[]
[] 20. PENCILS UP YOUR NOSE, BANG DOWN ONTO TABLE
[] Time:Seconds or never
[] Available: All you need is a couple of sharp pencils and a table
[] Certainty: Very uncertain
[] Notes: This is a myth, I think, since the pencils would go into your
[] frontal lobes, which are basically optional! This is the
[] legendary "exam suicide". Fine if you want a DIY frontal-
[] lobotomy rather than death!
[]
[] 21. GETTING SOMEONE TO MURDER YOU
[] Time:Depends on method used
[] Available: Know any murderous psychopaths? No, not the tax people...
[] Certainty: Depends on method used, & dedication of murderer
[] Notes: Forget it. Unless you contract someone to do it, the chances
[] are that you are going to wake up in hospital without your
[] wallet. If you do contract someone, how are you going to pay
[] them? Can't take them to court for running off with your
[] money and not doing the job.
[]
[] 22. MAKE YOURSELF INTO AN H-BOMB (another silly one)
[] Time:Speed of light over 1/2 metre (couple of nanoseconds)
[] Available: Nuke (fission OR fusion), 10 litres of heavy water
[] Certainty: 100%
[] Notes: Drink the heavy water for several days, strap yourself to
[] the nuke, and press the button. If you retained a couple of
[] litres of the heavy water, the additional yield should be
[] .02 * c^2 (joules?). The problem here is getting hold of the
[] nuke without anyone noticing. If you are discovered before you
[] trigger the gadget, the city authorities are liable to be
[] somewhat irate. Also heavy water is a poison, so you might not
[] survive that long anyway.
[]
[] 23. MICROMACHINES/NANOCOMPUTERS (science fiction)
[] Time:years or a fraction of a second - depends how you look at it
[] Available: in 50 years time?
[] Certainty: Good assuming that the technology is developed
[] Notes: Basically, this involves a 'replicator' panel. You program it
[] to replicate yourself, simplifying very slightly, with the
[] exception of the urge to use this technique. After a while, you
[] turn into a mindless zombie, trudging around from the exit of
[] the machine to the entrance, for eternity. Strange philosophical
[] implications.
[]
[] 24. SCUBA-DIVING (various fatal 'accidents')
[] Time:see notes -most are minutes/hours
[] Available: scuba diving gear, nobody around
[] Certainty: see notes
[] Notes: The first method is to rise 30 metres or so without releasing
[] your breath. Assuming that you can do it, it should cause your
[] lungs to burst. The second is the bends - stay under long enough
[] for the nitrogen to dissolve (30 metres for 30 minutes). go up
[] rapidly without decompression time. This is unreliable, and
[] may cause brain / joint damage. The third way is Carbon Monoxide
[] poisoning - fill your tank with it, and stay away from other
[] divers. You will fall asleep fairly quickly. See CO in poisons
[] section. The final way is oxygen narcosis - however, this means
[] that you have to go very deep with an oxygen-rich mix, and
[] there are problems associated with that. The advantage of these
[] methods is that insurance companies / relatives will assume that
[] it was an accident ('misadventure'), with the possible exception
[] of the CO poisoning.
[] The source of this follows: (from the net)
[] "Rising 30m without exhaling will usually result in an over
[] pressured lung, possible subcuteaneous emphazema, collapsed
[] lung, death usually from drowning in your own blood. Rather
[] painful and usually curable if you are rescued, but fair chance
[] of dying if you aren't.
[] Building up a high residual nitrogen time (say 30m for 30 min)
[] then coming up without decompressing will get you bent fairly
[] nicely. You don't feel much, but your joints tend to start
[] stiffening up after half an hour. Death is very uncertain,
[] coming from a stroke. Brain damage, joint damage etc are most
[] likely. Pobably can be recued but some damage certain.
[] Oxygen poisoning, going down 50+m until the partial pressure of
[] the oxygen reaches a toxic level. Difficult to accomplish, very
[] painful to get down that deep, cold pressure etc, possibility
[] of nitrogen narcosis and forgetting what you are doing. Probably
[] get bent, good chance of rescue.
[] CO poisoning, mix a healthy batch of carbon monoxide in your
[] tank as you dive, you tend to go to sleep under water, when
[] combined with the above methods you have a pretty good winner,
[] don't forget to forget your BCD."
[] [ed - whats a BCD?]
[]
[] 25. SUCKING YOUR BRAINS OUT
[] Time:Minutes
[] Available: You'd need a Puma (TM) robot, & some other bits
[] Certainty: certain, given proper programming
[] Notes: You would need an industrial robot to do this properly. Give
[] it a saw attachment, a sucking tube attachment, and program
[] it. Make a head restraint. When you are fixed securely into
[] the restraint, start the robot's program. It will drill a hole
[] in your head, and stick the tube into the hole. Program it to
[] wiggle the tube back and forth so that it doesn't miss anything.
[] This might work better if you put a stream of water into the
[] hole as well, so that the sucking attachment doesn't just suck
[] air all the time. Debugging the program could be amusing.
[]
[] 26. MICROWAVES
[] Time:?
[] Available: Source of strong microwave emissions
[] Certainty: ?
[] Notes: ?
[]
[] 27. DEHYDRATION
[] Time:a week or so.
[] Available: you need to be able to stop medical help.
[] Certainty: certain if your will-power stands up to it.
[] Notes: Don't eat or drink. Remember that food contains a high
[] proportion of water. Avoiding medical help can be difficult.
[]
[] 28. SKYDIVING 'ACCIDENT'
[] Time:pretty damn quick.
[] Available: need to join a skydiving club.
[] Certainty: certain.
[] Notes: Join a skydiving club, continue to practise it for a while to
[] clear off all suspicions and then once pack your parachute in
[] a real mess (preferably knotted up, but not too clearly) and
[] then jump. The para will not open and you will reach a terminal
[] velocity of 220 km/h (160 mph/120 kn). Death is instant in the
[] impact with the Planet Earth.
[] This has the advantages of being 'accidental', and your family/
[] friends do not have the additional pain and guilt associated
[] with suicides.
[]
[] 29. DEATH BY A THOUSAND CUTS; MODERN VERSION
[] Time:variable
[] Available: a heck of a lot of razor-wire.. maybe a high-voltage supply
[] Certainty: not very good
[] Notes: This is a modern variant of the Arabic 'Death of a thousand
[] cuts'. Basically, jump onto a stack of unravelled razor wire,
[] and roll around till you die.. it may help to connect a high-
[] voltage, low current power supply to the wire, so that you have
[] spasms, which should keep you getting cut even when you are
[] unconscious. Also, you should make sure that you can't roll off
[] the wire.
[]
[] 30. CRUSHING
[] Time:seconds to minutes, depends on car press
[] Available: a car press.. any good junkyard
[] Certainty: certain as long as you can't escape
[] Notes: This is an elegantly simple one.. get into a car, in a car
[] press, and shortly afterwards be squashed to death as your
[] body is converted into a red pulp. It may be tricky getting
[] the press to trigger, but if you hide in the car someone
[] may come along and activate it. There are other ways of
[] getting crushed, this just happens to be the most effective
[] I can think up on the spur of the moment. Getting yourself
[] run over by a fully loaded articulated lorry is quite good.
[] You should remember that people quite often survive the actual
[] crushing; they die when the weight is taken OFF them.
[]
[] 31. WORLD WAR THREE
[] Time:moments if you are near a militarilly significant site
[] Available: happen to be one of the 'key-holders'? president maybe?
[] Certainty: pretty certain
[] Notes: All you have to do is trigger world war three. Fire an ICBM
[] or three at the Chinese and the Russians... This method has
[] the advantage that you take everyone else with you! Trouble
[] is, the number of people with the requisite access is minimal,
[] and I sort of doubt that any readers of ASH can do this.
[]
[] 32. HEATSTROKE
[] Time:4 hours or more
[] Available: Very hot day; no disturbance from neighbours etc
[] Certainty: depends on the weather
[] Notes: Basically, the point is to give yourself extreme heatstroke.
[] You should pass out after a few hours. Use some aluminium foil
[] to direct the sun's heat onto you, to speed up the process
[] a bit. Try to reduce the chance of being interuppted, take off
[] the phone etc. Obviously, start in the morning! Helps if the
[] outside temperature is [] 100F. <mailto:sarf...@well.com>
[] http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Miguel+Newcastle+Jack+Sarfatti

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Dirk Bruere

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Sep 10, 2001, 4:32:46 PM9/10/01

"Colin Winfrey" <colin_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e0d33c8e.01091...@posting.google.com...

> tritt...@arschloch.de (Tritt Mich) wrote in message news:
> <snip>
> > > Okay, here's my dilemma... In the "Many Worlds"
> > > theory of quantum physics, popularized by David Deutsch
> > > and others, (<http://www.qubit.org/>), our conscious selves inhabit
> > > an infinite realm of parallel universes: a "multiverse." Now, over
> > > the many years wherein I've contemplated suicide, and the countless
> > > times I've decided to *finally* end my life, what if I actually did?
> > > What if there is a seamless continuity to sentience, so that no
> > > matter how many times you commit suicide and actually "die," your
> > > multiversal "self" continues uninterrupted. Seems like a cruel fate
> > > for consciousness to have no escape... but what if it's true?!

If its true we all get to find out.
If you are going to commit suicide, make it's an all or nothing job.
The MWI doesn't have anything to say about the kind of physical state you
survive in. Quadraplegic, blind, deaf, dumb and in agony will do just fine.

Dirk

ks

unread,

Sep 10, 2001, 6:13:52 PM9/10/01

The multiverse theory states that there are an infinite number of universes
with infinite copies of ourselves. All
possible events that could have occured in this universe but didn't have
occured in other universes e.g in some universes
Hitler won the war. So in another universe a person posting on this board,
in this universe, will have made all the
right choices in life and will be living a happy and fulfilling life. Just
unfortunate that some of us living in our present universe have fucked up
big time and are on the verge of suicide! However, if we die in our present
universe then conciousness will cease, however, we will still have copies of
ourselves still alive in
other realities but we just won't know about it.
"Pontifex Maximus" <maxpo...@yahoo.it> wrote in message
news:d1eb8c80.01090...@posting.google.com...

greysky

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Sep 10, 2001, 6:18:35 PM9/10/01

"Dirk Bruere" <art...@kbnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Vl9n7.9655$iD.16...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

Or you could even come back as a cow amd have to be milked every day.

Rory Baker

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Sep 10, 2001, 8:46:20 PM9/10/01

maxpo...@yahoo.it (Pontifex Maximus) wrote in message news:<d1eb8c80.01090...@posting.google.com>...

Ok, first, NEVER POST THAT MANY LINKS AGAIN. Second, to answer your
question abotu the multiverse theory, it is related to the uncertainy
principle, which, in it's most basic form, states that you cannot
determine a particle's position and spin at the same time. And when
you try to observe one or the other (at least, directly) it changes.
For the layman, Einstein once stated that if you take a live cat, and
place it in a box, and flood that box with electrons, before you open
the box, you have a 1/2 chance of the cat being alive or dead. When
you open the box (and therefore directly observe it) all possible
states of existence dissapear - except one. So do whatever you want,
the other ones will never know ;-)

Bill Yeakel

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Sep 10, 2001, 9:19:00 PM9/10/01

In alt.suicide.recovery Dirk Bruere <art...@kbnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> If its true we all get to find out.
> If you are going to commit suicide, make it's an all or nothing job.
> The MWI doesn't have anything to say about the kind of physical state you
> survive in. Quadraplegic, blind, deaf, dumb and in agony will do just fine.
>

Quadraplegics don't have a leg to stand on...

> Dirk
>
>

Bill Yeakel

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Sep 10, 2001, 9:22:08 PM9/10/01

Flooding a cat with gasoline is more fun.