Looking info's about Jerrahi Helveti - Jerrahiya Khalwatiya
M.A.
I found in internet some web sites about Jerrahi Helveti Sufi Way, I would
like know something about history of this tariqa, because seem that there is
two line, how come?
I am interested to know what happened at death of Shaikh Muzaffer Effendi,
r.a., with khilafa of this Tariqa.
Abdullatif
--
"Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are."
Masravi, Sayydina Shaikh Jalauluddin Rumi
Obo Vajrin
Friend Abdullatif, Is this one of the sites you are talking about:
I not too long ago had the opportunity of partaking in Zhikr conducted by
Shaykha Fariha, head of this order. My understanding is that she traces her
lineage thru Lex Hixon (Nur Al- Jerrahi) who was appointed by Muzaffer Ozak of
Istanbul. This order is in North America, so perhaps of no use to you. A
fellow Friend who sometimes is present here at alt.sufi has taken initiation
with her. If information about this order is of any use to you we can maybe
get David to speak with you. As to the rest of your questions, I should say
nothing.
All my best, obo
George
group zikr at a Jerrahi group here in Ontario about a month ago,
www.jerrahi.ca I don't have the scoop either but I don't think they are
exactly the same group but both were descended from Muzzafer Ozak Effendi,
the Nur Askhi branch was maybe started (?) by Lex Hixon. I would like to
hear more about this myself...
"Obo Vajrin" <obov...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030205131833...@mb-mm.aol.com...
Obo Vajrin
group zikr at a Jerrahi group here in Ontario about a month ago, >>
So, George, you are a Canadaian? Cool. Funny, today I learned that two people
who I read frequently on the Web are both Canadaians. Small world. Besides
Shaykha Fariha, I've met Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan, and of course, Idries Shah.
The Zhikr was last August in Lansing, Mi.. The circle is lead there by Muhammad
Ichlas. I have a bit of time tonight, so if you don't mind I'll spin a rather
long yarn about the experience, FWIW. First let me say I was tuned into the
event by David Fideler who has taken initiation. He is at
http://www.sufistudies.net/
Shaykha Fariha was wrapping up her anual summer tour of all the centers through
out the USA and Mexico. Lansing was last on their stop before retuning to NYC.
She was accompanied by her husband (who played a very mean tar) and I think
two other Dervishes. The rest were locals and there were five or six
outsiders-newbies like myself (about twenty-five participants total).
It was a hot night in August and we were meeting in a vacant store front and
even with the air conditioning going full blast, because the sun was pouring in
thru the plate glass windows, you broke into a full sweat standing still. It
was about 7:30 when I and my friend arrived (he is involved with Fourth Way
Work), the Gig was to start at 8:00. There was some joking about changing the
orbit of the sun to make conditions more bearable and I said it would be easier
to just pray for some clouds. A few of the locals put there heads togeather
and abracadraba tarps began to be hung on the windows. It didn't look pretty
but the temprature dropped 20 degrees F. in about ten minutes. Positive
impression #1. I mention this because there is a (teaching/demonstration?)
story on the web were a living Shaikh and his followers go out to clear dead
trees from the center's property with a dull chain saw. It was a real circus,
Holy is not stupid.
Shaykha Fariha arrives and she greets each of us with a hand shake (embraces
with the regulars) and a few words of greeting. I honestly don't remember what
she said to me, but from the look in her eye, I know, that she knows, that I am
going to be a tough customer. She shakes the hand of my friend Ralph standing
behind me and says, "You have the most beautiful green eyes." I almost go weak
in the knees. I've known Ralph for thirty years and never noticed his green
eyes. Positive impression #2, if someone can tell you something new about one
of your oldest friends, that is something.
The evening began with a bit of discourse. To me nothing new (I have read a
bit of this stuff) and nothing spectacular in her delivery. And then the
"party" began. I mean this in the highest regard, these people know how to
rock and roll. In the center was Fariha, her husband who had the most
incredibal Tar (frame drum) I have ever seen. It was about thirty inches in
dia. with hundreds of tiny brass rings mounted on it. They gave the sound of
the sea breaking on sand between the drum beats. Muhammad Ichlas was also in
the center playing Tar (he is a professional musician) There was a circle of
some seven or eight around them and then an outer circle made up of the rest of
us folks. There was some singing from books of songs of the order in the
begining and a lot of solo singing (chanting) by the center, which from time to
time brought in someone from the second circle. There was some movements with
the arms and at one point some bowing from the waste. The tempos would
increase and then slow down. To me it was like fine tuning something akin to a
watch mechanism. The "climax" had the inner circle going in one direction and
the outer circle going in the opposite direction using a pecular side crossing
step. We (the circles) mostly chanted Allah at this time, while the center
would wail out a spectacular singing of some verse or other which was as good
as anything I have heard on recording. Fariha would walk the circle in the
opposite direction fine tuning a hand or arm movement or correcting what was
being chanted. Re- adjusting the syncopation we were providing at certain
times. Like I said she had me pegged from the beggining, so when she stood in
front of me adjusting an arm movement she said, "TRY to feel it in your heart."
Oh yea, at one point one of the locals whirled (ala mevleviye) for about ten
minutes. And then it was over. Next was lots of food (tons) and questions and
answers for about an hour, till I and my friend considered it time to go home.
I got the impression that the group was getting ready to go to Ichlas's house
for the rest of the night. When we got into our car for the drive back home
more than four hours had elapsed, we both though only about two hours had
passed.
Two more things. I've worked as house manager for twenty years at the
University of Michigan's main concert hall and back stage for a few more years
as house technician. I have attended thousands of concerts in my life. I have
seen most of the worlds great orchestra's being conducted by all the Masters.
Shaykha Fariha was as good a "conductor" of this group of people as any I have
seen (positive impression #3). And during the question and answer period one
yound woman of about twenty (a newbie) was being "reached" by Fariha's words
and Fariha's speach got into a pecular cadance or rhythm with an almost gasping
sort of breath (like some black baptist preachers I've seen as they get
"possesed by the spirt.") breaking into the short phrases of words.
It was a great experience, but I am not really quallified to judge it's
spiritual dimensions. I hope my discriptions were not too lacking in perception
of what spirituality was being manifested. I tried to participate and remain
objective at the same time, perhaps this was a mistake. I hope to get to
Lansing again for one of Muhammad Ichlas's weekly Zhikr. And would love to
attend next years zikhr when Shaykha Fariha is in town again. I do not plan to
join the order.
I hope this has been of some interest.
Take care, obo
Janice
obov...@aol.com says...
>Besides
>Shaykha Fariha, I've met Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan, and of course, Idries Shah.
One of my nephews hung out with Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan's son upon a
time. As I recall, the son (I don't know his name) claimed that his
father was the acknowledged head of Sufism in the West. As Jay was then
a dedicated student of Idries Shah, whom he considered to be the head of
Sufism in the West, he did not buy it. :)
Molting Serpent
http://members.cruzio.com/~quanta/backsideD.htm
"The Sufism of Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan and Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan is a
highly diluted form of Sufism introduced in the West to New Agers, with
little specific content. I have known about them for 20 years. They are nice
people but they are not real Sufis."
Janice
bronze...@lycos.com says...
Don't tell them that! :)
Obo Vajrin
"The Sufism of Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan and Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan is a
highly diluted form of Sufism introduced in the West to New Agers, with
little specific content. I have known about them for 20 years. They are nice
people but they are not real Sufis."
About a year and a half ago (maybe) I made a post here at alt. sufi from a
request by Azo about my first meeting with Inayat Khan. It is/was a real hoot!
IMHO and from a number of pupils whom I met at Omega, the real deal in that
organization was Murshid Sam Lewis, "Sufi Sam" of San Franscio. I think that
had I gotten started in this business a few years earlier I might have gotten
hooked up with him, but speculation based on imagined instinct has its
limitations. The son's name is Pir Zia Inayat Khan (he has now taken over the
club). I was at Omega in I think 1979 or 80. I took lots of photos and have
this really great shot of Father, Mother, and about 10 year old son sitting on
his lap while we were listening to a concert. "Nice people." And some tapes of
Khan playing cello and some other incredible music. Shri Chimoney was also
there (at the time Guru to Carlos Santana). But the heavy dude was Pandit Pran
Nath, a master singer from India. I do believe he could have "walked on water"
if there was a need to.
I had been in a real "funk" the last few days, but all this sharing has brough
out the sun light again. My thanks to all.
Take care, obo
>>
George
> So, George, you are a Canadaian? Cool. Funny, today I learned that two
people
> who I read frequently on the Web are both Canadaians.
Actually my name is Mark, I put the name George in awhile ago for some
paranoid reason and am not sure how/too lazy to change it.
> I've met Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan,
How did that go? Kinda neat reading someones stuff and then actually meeting
them, my only brush with sufi fame was writing an email to the threshold
society of Kabir Helminski's and having him writing back directly which I
didn't expect and appreciated.
>First let me say I was tuned into the
> event by David Fideler who has taken initiation. He is at
> http://www.sufistudies.net/
Yes I have talked to David a little bit on the Yahoo groups. I would like to
eventually go to one of the events at his Concord Grove center, probally the
midwest sufi gathering that's scheduled for this year
I have been having a tough time getting into it myself, I think it needs
alot of prepapretory work, which i'm lacking for all my talk, to be
experienced properly.
> Oh yea, at one point one of the locals whirled (ala mevleviye) for about
ten
> minutes. And then it was over. Next was lots of food (tons) and
questions and
> answers for about an hour, till I and my friend considered it time to go
home.
> I got the impression that the group was getting ready to go to Ichlas's
house
> for the rest of the night. When we got into our car for the drive back
home
> more than four hours had elapsed, we both though only about two hours had
> passed.
Sounds like a nice group.
> Two more things. I've worked as house manager for twenty years at the
> University of Michigan's main concert hall and back stage for a few more
years
> as house technician. I have attended thousands of concerts in my life. I
have
> seen most of the worlds great orchestra's being conducted by all the
Masters.
> Shaykha Fariha was as good a "conductor" of this group of people as any I
have
> seen
That certainly sounds like sign of a Murshid, personally I would find it a
bit odd with a woman Shaykh, I realize that is just my own immaturity
talking, I have read Ibn Arabi's first spiritual teachers were women.
. And during the question and answer period one
> yound woman of about twenty (a newbie) was being "reached" by Fariha's
words
> and Fariha's speach got into a pecular cadance or rhythm with an almost
gasping
> sort of breath (like some black baptist preachers I've seen as they get
> "possesed by the spirt.") breaking into the short phrases of words.
Could you elaborate on this a little, how did the young women act did she
start crying? I don't think I have seen preachers do that per se, just start
raising their voices and bringing down the holy spirit and laying on hands.
> It was a great experience, but I am not really quallified to judge it's
> spiritual dimensions. I hope my discriptions were not too lacking in
perception
> of what spirituality was being manifested. I tried to participate and
remain
> objective at the same time, perhaps this was a mistake.
I don't know a better way to about it for an outsider, unless you want to go
native and become muslim or whatever.
I hope to get to
> Lansing again for one of Muhammad Ichlas's weekly Zhikr. And would love
to
> attend next years zikhr when Shaykha Fariha is in town again. I do not
plan to
> join the order.
I think people should do what they relate to the most to get closer to
God/Reality, no point in joining a religion when it doesn't resonate with
you. I.S. had some great points about this, taking on foriegn customs. If I
did not have such an affinity for Islam and traditional sufi culture then I
would probally be studying yoga and zen meditation, it would be much less of
a headache.
> I hope this has been of some interest.
It was a great description, I love reading about this stuff, thanks
George
"Molting Serpent" <bronze...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:IPj0a.3669$io.1...@iad-read.news.verio.net...
M.A.
"Obo Vajrin" <obov...@aol.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:20030205193251...@mb-ma.aol.com...
M.A.
"Obo Vajrin" <obov...@aol.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:20030205231811...@mb-ma.aol.com...
Obo Vajrin
Dear Abdullatif,
First let me appoligize for the briefness of this post. Thursday, Friday,
Saturday are busy work days for me. If your interest is not satisfied, ask me
again on Sunday.
I think the story was told once before here, but I am not good at retrieving
from the archives or past posts.
I traveled to England in the fall of 1969 and spent 6 weeks attempting to make
contact with Shah's endeavors. Today 34 years later, I am still gaining
benifit from that effort.
On the one hand my experience was a little like the Nasrudin story "The King
Spoke To Me." Do you know this story?
On the other hand it was a lot like the usual stories in a "religious" context
about "heart to heart" contact. In my case it was more a sensation in the
"solar plexis" accompaning the implanted thought.
A while back a chap named Bruce Main-Smith who worked under Shah for years told
us his story.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=JP+George+group:alt.sufi&start=90&hl=en&
lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=aellpo%24222%241%40slb4.atl.mindspring.net&rnum=92
this may be a link to some of that story.
Later, obo
JP George
news:0gm0a.280811$pDv....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Thats quite an article, enough said about Stephen Shwartz.
Contrary to what some "Sufis" may think about using the Internet as a tool
to further the Work, I find that you can tell a lot about someone's supposed
"Sufihood" by how they interact on the net.
> "Molting Serpent" <bronze...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:IPj0a.3669$io.1...@iad-read.news.verio.net...
> > Alleged quote of Stephen Schwartz
> > http://members.cruzio.com/~quanta/backsideD.htm
As far as the rest of the players go in this little transcript go, I can say
that I read Nick Herbert's books "Faster Than Light" and "Quantum Reality"
and I highly recommend them to any one interested in the subject matter.
In "Quantum Reality" in particular, he does an excellent job of framing the
questions that need to be asked about what quantum physics can tell us about
our perception of reality within the context of the relevant research, and
in a fairly easy to read manner. He has also done some impressive work in
proving Bell's Non-locality Theorem. I can't speak for all his later work,
but I have also perused his website before, and found his thoughts and ideas
there to be very interesting.
http://members.cruzio.com/~quanta/
-JP
Janice
jpge...@mindspring.com says...
>As far as the rest of the players go in this little transcript go, I can say
>that I read Nick Herbert's books "Faster Than Light" and "Quantum Reality"
>and I highly recommend them to any one interested in the subject matter.
Jay has, or maybe had at this point, the first one. I'll have to let him
know about the second one.
By the way, Jay once tried to broach the subject of consciousness and
physics at alt.out-of-body and made some interesting commentary, if
anyone cares to do a search at
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en for posts by <Jay
Vogelsong (nob...@nowhere.org)> at that group. Unfortunately he was not
able to withstand the skepti-rays so it didn't go on very long. :)
Concentrate on threads from January and February 2002.
Janice
JayAVo...@netscape.net says...
>In article <b1uqpi$22k$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>,
>jpge...@mindspring.com says...
>
>>As far as the rest of the players go in this little transcript go, I can say
>>that I read Nick Herbert's books "Faster Than Light" and "Quantum Reality"
>>and I highly recommend them to any one interested in the subject matter.
>
>Jay has, or maybe had at this point, the first one. I'll have to let him
>know about the second one.
While rummaging through Jay's books I did spot a third Herbert title,
"Elemental Mind," which is about consciousness and physics.
Steve
"Janice" <JayAVo...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.18aced953...@news.cis.dfn.de...
Some good quality skepti-rays. You could get a tan off of those.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.441 / Virus Database: 247 - Release Date: 1/9/03
Janice
kok...@wotmania.com says...
>> By the way, Jay once tried to broach the subject of consciousness and
>> physics at alt.out-of-body and made some interesting commentary, if
>> anyone cares to do a search at
>> http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en for posts by <Jay
>> Vogelsong (nob...@nowhere.org)> at that group. Unfortunately he was
>not
>> able to withstand the skepti-rays so it didn't go on very long. :)
>
>Some good quality skepti-rays. You could get a tan off of those.
Many have been burned! Jeffrey would have to apply a couble coat of
sunblock before running any ideas from that treatise he's been working on
by those fellas, but if he took care he might get some useful feedback.
Janice
JayAVo...@netscape.net says...
>Jeffrey would have to apply a couble coat of sunblock
Or a double one, at least.
Steve
> >
> >Some good quality skepti-rays. You could get a tan off of those.
>
> Many have been burned!
Probably due to taking it all to seriously or personally. There's no harm
in skeptics even when they're trying real hard. At least you seem to have
some dedicated and intelligent ones.
> Jeffrey would have to apply a couble coat of
> sunblock before running any ideas from that treatise he's been working
on
> by those fellas, but if he took care he might get some useful feedback.
I'm sure Jeffrey's tough enough.
M.A.
don't you find strange that there are more shaiks of Jerrahi?
Abdul
"Obo Vajrin" <obov...@aol.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:20030206080505...@mb-bj.aol.com...
Obo Vajrin
Hi
don't you find strange that there are more shaiks of Jerrahi?
Abdul >>
Dear Abdul, if I understand your question, no more strange than a man would
want more than one wife (a Shaik is a "bride" to God?). God may have His own
motives. All things are permitted to God. I am less famiiar with Jerrahi,
more familiar with Naqshbandi. The qualifications of a teacher is that he/she
possesses what the student needs. The needs of the student are many (more than
many, almost infinate), therefore teachers come in many forms. Long ago, a
very famous Sufi (I think it was Ansari) said that a cat was his teacher. He
learned dedication, singleness of purpose and concentration from watching a cat
watch a mouse hole. Idries Shah said a rock can be your teacher, if when you
trip over it on the road, you truely learn something. I find it strange that
there are not MORE Shaiks. Please take this not as an insult. I think you are
confussing politics with true spirituality. The Roman Catholics have one Pope
as the leader of many many Bishops. That is politics, just politics. Every
real Sufi is a "Pope", and there are many thousands of them. Prase be to God,
for our needs are many. Again please take this as no insult, because English
is probably your second or third language. Do you understand what I am saying,
am I making myself clear enough?
Take care, obo
Obo Vajrin
>from obo: I've met Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan,
From mark: How did that go? Kinda neat reading someones stuff and then actually
meeting
them, >>
Dear Mark, as I said in my other post, I worked at a major concert hall in a
position of some authority. And so I "hob nobbed" with lots of famous
musicians and celebrities from Lenny Bernstein to Michael Hedges, from Tommy
Smothers to the Dali Lama. My one rule was never ask for an autograph, that
would make me just a fan. I was there to SERVE, so I had to be "an equal" if
that makes any sence. The wonderful thing about the "posture of service" is
that the server and the thing being served must make contact, be on the same
plane so to speak.
I agree with most of what has been said here recently about Inayat Khan, very
nice person, warm and open, radiating peace and love, all the usuall BS. His
organization may just be a club, better than some other clubs maybe. A real
school? That I can not say for sure, not being a member, not my experience.
The time I heard him speak in Detroit (early 70's) of which I wrote at some
length here once before (I should get my act togeather and use the archives)
left three major impressions. First, as he sat down to begin his discourse, he
bonked his head on the microphone with such a loud bang that I thought he was
going to loose consciousness before he had a chance to explane consciousness.
After the talk, those of us that wanted could remain and have a private
"audiance." I was there with the same friend who went with me to the Zhikr, I
was best man at his wedding, we have been friends most of our lives. So we
waited our turn, most people had about five minutes with Pir Vilayat. My turn
came, I sat down before him and he asked me if I had any questions. I asked
something to the effect that I was having trouble dealing with my "commanding
self", what advise could he give. He didn't know what I was talking about,
"Commanding Self", so I explained in about thirty words and mentioned that I
had learned the term from Idries Shah. He said yes, yes,(a little irratated it
seemed to me at the time) the mantra he had given during the public talk would
work just fine and sent me on my way in just over a minute. My friend was next
and spent 15 minutes with him and considered the experience to have been of
great value. I should also say that my friend has had to carry some real
baggage in his life. His father was an acoholic and when my friend was 12, he
walked into their garage and found that his mother had hanged herself.
<< I would find it a
bit odd with a woman Shaykh,>>
Any more odd than a woman seeker would have with a male Shaykh?
;-)
<<
Could you elaborate on this a little, how did the young women act did she
start crying? >>
I don't really know more what I could say about the moment, it lasted for a few
minutes. I am a trained musician so my attention was drawn to the change in
the sound and rhythm of Shaykha Fariha's voice, not so much what she was saying
to the young woman. I do not "Know" that she was possesed at that moment by
"the spirit", like I said it was similar to the short burst of words punctuated
by a short inhalation of breath I've heard from some black preachers inspired
by the moment, or maybe a learnd part of the act. The young woman did not cry,
but was "hypnotised" by the experience. Being "hypnotised" by an experience is
not necessarily a bad thing. I have heard that the power of music is such that
if you listen to a piece of music twice in a row, you will be hypnotised by it.
I am beat and tomorrow will be a long work day so I bid you all a good night.
obo, over and out
Molting Serpent
I betcha that there is a Sufic defense for this apparently dubious,
haphazard encounter with this "Sufi". Betcha Shah would have said
that you walked away from (having failed) a deflection test by being
given an answer appropriate to the perceived condition you
demonstrated.
Ironically, according to classical sufi defenses, this deflection test
business doesn't necessarily mean that he was a fake. You'd have to
experience his club to know if he was for real... but you haven't,
hence you don't know any better his authenticity (after your meeting
with) Khan than before.
EVIL DIABIOLICAL PLAN (for you to audioize)...
Now, all I have to do is open a club up, and call myself a Sufi.
Then I'd quickly bounce intelligent people out of my club saying they
failed my deflection test (because their commanding self over values
intelligence)... and give tickets to people that prove to me are
gullible saps and vulnerable emotionally. I could quickly establish
them as my loyal disciples and get them to hook me up with anything I
could wish for (all the while pilfering & regurgitating "wisdom" from
books). Muhahahahahaha
Tiffy
>
> The needs of the student are many (more than
> many, almost infinate), therefore teachers come in many forms. Long ago,
a
> very famous Sufi (I think it was Ansari) said that a cat was his teacher.
He
> learned dedication, singleness of purpose and concentration from watching
a cat
> watch a mouse hole. Idries Shah said a rock can be your teacher, if when
you
> trip over it on the road, you truely learn something.
This brings to mind a story I heard from Sherif Baba, a Rifai-Marufi shaik.
Once there was a scholar, who sought to impress his friend (a dervish) by
training his cats. In fact, he trained his cats to sit in a circle, and stay
there all during dinner. Amazing! The dervish was properly impressed. The
next visit, the scholar upted the ante by training the cats, sitting all in
a circle, to hold candles in their paws. However, this time his friend was
ready, and entering the room, he let go the mouse from his pocket, whereupon
all the cats dropped their candles and pursued the mouse out the door.
-/-
Not to dispute the wisdom of cats, of course!
-t-
Obo Vajrin
Not to dispute the wisdom of cats, of course!
>>
Many thanks t,
I would also not dispute the wisdom of scholars (form?)
nor would I dispute the wisdom of dervishes (substance?), and try still to
appreciate the wisdom of cats (instinct?). It's all a matter of which method
for which "mouse"?
Take care, obo
Pearlmkelly999
From: "Tiffy" ti...@spamqwest.net
Date: Tue, Feb 11, 2003 7:56 PM
Message-id: <RUg2a.1613$4F5.1...@news.uswest.net>
-/-
-t-
Au Contrare,
This seems to *illustate* the wisdom of cats, at least with respect to setting
priorities.
Meow,
Pearl
>>
Martin Edwards
resident. I think he was just cracking a joke about English
schooldchildren.
******Martin Edwards.******
Come on! Nobody's gonna drive that lousy freeway
when you can take the Red Car for a nickel.
-Eddy Valiant