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Death Star vs. Dyson Sphere

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Kromeboy

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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This should be the be all and end all of the Great Death Star debate. If
the Empire were to invade the Federation all the federation would have to do
is send ALL its members to a Dyson Sphere, they have found one and know how
to enter it. For those of you who don't know what a Dyson Sphere is i'll
explain, A Dyson Sphere is a large globe with the interior surface area
equvilant to 10,000 earth size planets built around a sun with the hull
composed of neutronium (a metal that i have never heard mentioned in the SW
universe and in the ST universe unable to be made by any of the known races,
and nothing with the exception of a PURE anti-proton weapon can even scratch
the surface). Now with the sun showing on all sides you now have an
unlimited power supply so the Feds now have all the time in the world to
either wait out the Empire and/or design new weapons and technologies to
take out the Empire when the mood hits them (and as for that great Death
Star weapon, it won't scratch the surface either because as Bigba stated its
a type of plasma weapon).

Rog

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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Neutronium, sorry mate SW has heard of it and ISD's hull armour are
partially composed of it. I imagine that Mon Cal cruisers would have
equivalent armour and we see the DS II take them down in RotJ so Bye Bye
Dyson Sphere.

--
Rog

Quote of the week:
"Be a captain Picard, boldly go where no MAN has gone before" (take the
implied meaning)
- SMG (aka Buffy) in Cruel Intentions (I really think she should have said
Kirk).

Kromeboy <ama...@mnic.net> wrote in message
news:37899...@Oak.Internet-Connections.net...

Wedge Antilles

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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neutronium is in SW, and is a major component in the armour of capital
warships, including the various types of Star Destroyers. So, if it's immune
to all weapons in Trek except PURE anti-proton weapons, Trek don't stand a
chance in hell of even defeating a single Imperial strike fleet.

later,
Wedge

Kromeboy wrote in message <37899...@Oak.Internet-Connections.net>...

equat...@my-deja.com

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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In article <37899...@Oak.Internet-Connections.net>,
"Kromeboy" <ama...@mnic.net> wrote:

big snip...

actually, star wars fans... the dyson sphere depicted in sttng is
probably one thing that neither ds, either alone or teamed up, could
make much of a dent in, even over prolonged periods. Mike Wong and I
had a correspondence concerning a match up between the neutronium hulled
planet killer from st:tos and the ds, and finally came to the conclusion
that the fight would probably go to whichever superweapon got the first
shot off... the planet killer (hereafter referred to as the pk) could
shrug off pretty much anything short of a full power direct hit from the
ds due to the fact that pure neutronium is completely superconductive,
and would radiate the energy from the hit away almost as fast as it came
in... the ds, otoh, being less than 1000 km in diameter, wouldnt last
long at all against the pk's antiproton beam, which was designed to
carve up earth-type planets thousands of times bigger like so much rump
roast...

anyway, im digressing... to get back on topic, the dyson sphere is a
sphere totally encompassing a sol-type star, with an INNER radius of
approximately 148 MILLION km... and composed primarily of a
carbon-neutronium matrix... it would be logical to assume that the
neutronium is there so that the sphere can effectively radiate excess
heat from its' inner surface (remember we are talking about a construct
capable of collecting ALL of the radiated energy of a star... of course
there will be waste to dump!)... the carbon is probably mixed in due to
the fact that neutronium is fairly rare, but the structure is probably
still superconductive... on top of this, it has a surface area in
excess of 2.81E17km^2 - equal to 140 MILLION earths!!! - and is at least
several hundred, if not several hundred THOUSAND km thick! I wont even
hazard a guess at how much mass that is, and most of it superconducts!
if the death star fired on it, the energy would be dissipated thru the
rest of the structure and radiated back to open space so quickly that
there wouldnt be enough energy left at the point of impact to boil a cup
of water, much less destroy even a small portion of the structure! otoh,
the dyson sphere has no weapons afaik, and would just sit there... after
all, it cant move!

my verdict, the ds takes one scan of it, realizes that shooting at it is
a waste of time, and moves on... or does so after a few thousand shots
hit with no apparent effect... either way, dyson is champ!


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

PAUL JACQUES H.JR

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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Rog (ro...@slaanesh.freeserve.co.uk) wrote:
: Neutronium, sorry mate SW has heard of it and ISD's hull armour are

: partially composed of it. I imagine that Mon Cal cruisers would have
: equivalent armour and we see the DS II take them down in RotJ so Bye Bye
: Dyson Sphere.
:

Based on Edam and Johnatan's calcs. ISD's hull are not compose of enough
neutronium to even make it worth the effort to put them there in the
first place. The hull of SSD didn't stop Chewie to cut a hole inside
it. As for the Dyson Sphere, if instead of neutronium its hull was
Iron. Then it would take 10,000 shots of the DS. It takes one day to
charge the DS in order to destroy a planet. Then it would take
10,000 days to destroy the entire Dyson Sphere. That means 27 years.


PAUL JACQUES H.JR

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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Wedge Antilles (we...@tauniverse.com) wrote:
: neutronium is in SW, and is a major component in the armour of capital

: warships, including the various types of Star Destroyers. So, if it's immune
: to all weapons in Trek except PURE anti-proton weapons, Trek don't stand a
: chance in hell of even defeating a single Imperial strike fleet.
:

If that was true then how come, ISDs were deafeated against the rebels
in ROTJ?

Michael January

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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The neutronium in SW hulls obviously serves some purpose, or they
wouldn't have bothered. The amount of neutronium is in contention
because the basis for the calcs was not an un-official diagram of a
non-existing vessel.

Who needs the DS for this, sun-crusher to supernova the star at the
centre of the sphere (DS or ISD can punch a hole in the sphere if
necessary for the sun-crushers torpedoes). If not sun-crusher, then
galaxy gun or centrepoint station.

Lastly, maybe it would be better to haul out the world-devastators,
all that readily refined material that went into the sphere, hmmm, how
many ISD's, SSDs, and even DS's can we get out of that. MWA HA HA

Michael January

For some entertainment, check out:-
galactec.com/timothy

Phong Nguyen

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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In article <378a12f2...@ct-news.iafrica.com>,
Well, it depends on the timeframe here - the SC might not be
available for usage.

> Lastly, maybe it would be better to haul out the world-devastators,
> all that readily refined material that went into the sphere, hmmm, how
> many ISD's, SSDs, and even DS's can we get out of that. MWA HA HA
>

Oh yeah - just send a few in and you'll have a fully operational
shipyard churning out ships like there's not tomarrow. And even
if only part of the shipbuilding went to the civilians, you know
how much *money* could be made? It could help kickstart the newly
conquered galaxy's economy up by quite a bit.

> Michael January
>
> For some entertainment, check out:-
> galactec.com/timothy
>

--
phong nguyen ack...@baka.iname.com / remove baka

Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it.

Phong Nguyen

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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In article <Lzli3.3784$8v6.2...@carnaval.risq.qc.ca>,

he79...@merlin.uqam.ca (PAUL JACQUES H.JR) wrote:
Because the Alliance fleet had the advantage of the confusion when
the DSII exploded, and they had comparably armed ships to bring
to the fray.

Robert Williams

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...

>Wedge Antilles (we...@tauniverse.com) wrote:
>: neutronium is in SW, and is a major component in the armour of capital
>: warships, including the various types of Star Destroyers. So, if it's immune
>: to all weapons in Trek except PURE anti-proton weapons, Trek don't stand a
>: chance in hell of even defeating a single Imperial strike fleet.
>:
>
>If that was true then how come, ISDs were deafeated against the rebels
>in ROTJ?

Becuase they are not from the trek universe, and mount similar weapons to
imperial ships, and as such can damage them.

Rob


Robert Williams

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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>Based on Edam and Johnatan's calcs. ISD's hull are not compose of enough
>neutronium to even make it worth the effort to put them there in the
>first place. The hull of SSD didn't stop Chewie to cut a hole inside
>it.

He didn't cut his way through a main piece of hull armour. This should be
obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence.

Oh i forgot, you are stupid.

In conclusion, if faced with a DS, the dyson sphere would soon become the dead
sphere.

Rob


Rob Dalton

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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>
> In conclusion, if faced with a DS, the dyson sphere would soon become
the dead
> sphere.
>
> Rob

Isn't it already dead??

--
Rob Dalton
Making lives miserable since 1980

LordSh...@webtv.net

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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So Kromeboy is saying that the only chance the Federation has against
the Empire is to find this thing and hide in it? For how long? Until
the Empire has their galaxy in it's grasp? Or maybe just until the
Centrepoint Station tosses it into a black hole.

"Where is your God when you need him? Where is your merciful loving
faggot now?"


Paul J Oh

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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Wedge Antilles wrote:

> neutronium is in SW, and is a major component in the armour of capital
> warships, including the various types of Star Destroyers. So, if it's immune
> to all weapons in Trek except PURE anti-proton weapons, Trek don't stand a
> chance in hell of even defeating a single Imperial strike fleet.
>

> later,
> Wedge
>

Okay, how about this:

The planet killer from TOS had a hull of pure neutronium. I truly doubt that
the Empire's ISDs have pure neutronium hulls, but just out of the sake of
arguement, let's pretend that they do. The pk is several klicks long, while the
avg ISD II is 1600 m. It took Kirk an impulse engine overload of the U.S.S.
Constellation to destroy the pk. Such an explosion racked up about 97.835
megatons of destruction to kiss that sucker goodbye.

Using deductive logic, the ISD is less stronger armored than the pk, smaller
than the pk, and would take less than 97.835 megatons to destroy. Of course
this rough calculation doesn't take into account that the ISD will have its
shields up and that the pk was destroyed from within, but it's something to
think about.


Paul


--
"Who says life is sacred-God? Hey, if you read your history,
God is one of the leading causes of death."
-George Carlin

Jonathan Pierce

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Jul 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/12/99
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Paul J Oh <Paul.Bug...@m.cc.utah.edu> wrote in message
news:378A8EAD...@m.cc.utah.edu...

>
>
> Wedge Antilles wrote:
>
> > neutronium is in SW, and is a major component in the armour of capital
> > warships, including the various types of Star Destroyers. So, if it's
immune
> > to all weapons in Trek except PURE anti-proton weapons, Trek don't stand
a
> > chance in hell of even defeating a single Imperial strike fleet.
> >
> > later,
> > Wedge
> >
>
> Okay, how about this:
>
> The planet killer from TOS had a hull of pure neutronium. I truly doubt
that
> the Empire's ISDs have pure neutronium hulls, but just out of the sake of
> arguement, let's pretend that they do. The pk is several klicks long,
while the
> avg ISD II is 1600 m. It took Kirk an impulse engine overload of the
U.S.S.
> Constellation to destroy the pk. Such an explosion racked up about 97.835
> megatons of destruction to kiss that sucker goodbye.
>

Actually it did not destroy the pk. When the Constellation blew up it just
shut the pk down (the insides ie engin, power cells, etc) the outside hull
was left floating in space.

dura...@my-deja.com

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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In article <7mcn5e$ls7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

Is this supposed to be a victory for Trek? How? Just because the thing sits
there? Besides, the DS could go close enough and when the door on the Dyson
Sphere opens, shoot a superlaser blast into the star. I don't know if this'll
destroy a star, but I wonder what effect pumping 7000 years worth of solar
fusion energy into a start would do... As for the Federation taking refuge
there... Let them. They'll sit by and watch the Empire take over the whole
galaxy? Sorry, but the Feds wouldn't do that, it wouldn't be moral. So, they
wouldn't go into hiding, they'd fight until the last intelligent man, in that
case, the intelligent man would run away or defect.

Wedge Antilles

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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it's a simple answer. SW weapons are capable of damaging even neutronium.

later,
Wedge

PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...

>Wedge Antilles (we...@tauniverse.com) wrote:
>: neutronium is in SW, and is a major component in the armour of capital
>: warships, including the various types of Star Destroyers. So, if it's
immune
>: to all weapons in Trek except PURE anti-proton weapons, Trek don't stand
a
>: chance in hell of even defeating a single Imperial strike fleet.

Wedge Antilles

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
to

PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...
>Rog (ro...@slaanesh.freeserve.co.uk) wrote:
>: Neutronium, sorry mate SW has heard of it and ISD's hull armour are
>: partially composed of it. I imagine that Mon Cal cruisers would have
>: equivalent armour and we see the DS II take them down in RotJ so Bye Bye
>: Dyson Sphere.
>:
>
>Based on Edam and Johnatan's calcs. ISD's hull are not compose of enough
>neutronium to even make it worth the effort to put them there in the
>first place. The hull of SSD didn't stop Chewie to cut a hole inside
>it. As for the Dyson Sphere, if instead of neutronium its hull was
>Iron. Then it would take 0.0001 shots of the DS. It takes five minutes to

>charge the DS in order to destroy a planet. Then it would take
>0.0001 minutes to destroy the entire Dyson Sphere. That means
26.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
years less than 27 years (approx).
>

Wedge Antilles

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Or even just until some loonatic decides it'd be fun to fly through the
thing with, say, the sun crusher, and supenova this supposed sun inside the
thing.

later,
Wedge

LordSh...@webtv.net wrote in message
<531-378...@newsd-143.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...

Wedge Antilles

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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No, that way, it's a draw. Dyson sphere is not champ, because the DS is not
damaged, let alone destroyed, and neither is the Dyson Sphere. Anyway, ram a
Sun Crusher through the damn Dyson Sphere, supernova the star inside, and be
done with it

later,
Wedge

>my verdict, the ds takes one scan of it, realizes that shooting at it is
>a waste of time, and moves on... or does so after a few thousand shots
>hit with no apparent effect... either way, dyson is champ!
>
>

equat...@my-deja.com

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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did I say anything about it being a victory for the federation????
i dont think so... as for the idea of firing the ds superlaser into the
star, it wouldnt do anything, because the plasma that any star is made
of is also superconductive... the energy you pump into it would come
right back out again, manifesting itself as a momentary increase in the
radiation flux... a stellar 'hiccup' if you will... as for getting in
the door in the 1st place, we dont know wether the ds would be affected
by the tractor beams in the same manner as was the enterprise - if you
remember, they caused the E-D's engines to go offline... if that were to
happen to the ds, it would potentially be in BIG trouble!

In article <7me9nd$6h3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

> > my verdict, the ds takes one scan of it, realizes that shooting at
it is
> > a waste of time, and moves on... or does so after a few thousand
shots
> > hit with no apparent effect... either way, dyson is champ!
>

> Is this supposed to be a victory for Trek? How? Just because the thing
sits
> there? Besides, the DS could go close enough and when the door on the
Dyson
> Sphere opens, shoot a superlaser blast into the star. I don't know if
this'll
> destroy a star, but I wonder what effect pumping 7000 years worth of
solar
> fusion energy into a start would do... As for the Federation taking
refuge
> there... Let them. They'll sit by and watch the Empire take over the
whole
> galaxy? Sorry, but the Feds wouldn't do that, it wouldn't be moral.
So, they
> wouldn't go into hiding, they'd fight until the last intelligent man,
in that
> case, the intelligent man would run away or defect.
>

equat...@my-deja.com

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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hmmm... is there any evidence that the sun crusher could survive a
ramming attempt thru a structure made primarily of neutronium? I know
that it is capable of ramming thru an ISD, but they only use chunks of
neutronium disbursed throughout their structure as a means of
attenuating impact forces... the sun crusher wouldnt so much fly
through them as thru the normal (much weaker) hullmetal structure (which
is itself mostly composed of empty spaces, after all an ISD is _not_ a
solid piece of metal), bumping the neutronium nodules aside as it
went... like bumpercars... the primary structure of the dyson sphere is
a SOLID composite of carbon and neutronium... sort of like the US army's
cermet composites used on tanks, only a whole lot tougher and naturally
superconductive... I doubt that the suncrusher could survive ramming
thru that material for several hundred to hundred thousand km... its
tough... but not _that_ tough.

In article <7meo8i$hs0$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,


"Wedge Antilles" <we...@tauniverse.com> wrote:
> No, that way, it's a draw. Dyson sphere is not champ, because the DS
is not
> damaged, let alone destroyed, and neither is the Dyson Sphere. Anyway,
ram a
> Sun Crusher through the damn Dyson Sphere, supernova the star inside,
and be
> done with it

Rog

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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I agree that an ISD doesn't have much Nuetronium in its hull armour but I
was trying to point out that SW has encountered and learned to use it.
apart form that though how do you figure that the Dyson sphere will take
10000 shots to destroy?

--
Rog

Quote of the week:
"Be a captain Picard, boldly go where no MAN has gone before" (take the
implied meaning)
- SMG (aka Buffy) in Cruel Intentions (I really think she should have said
Kirk).

PAUL JACQUES H.JR <he79...@merlin.uqam.ca> wrote in message
news:Lwli3.3783$8v6.2...@carnaval.risq.qc.ca...


> Rog (ro...@slaanesh.freeserve.co.uk) wrote:
> : Neutronium, sorry mate SW has heard of it and ISD's hull armour are
> : partially composed of it. I imagine that Mon Cal cruisers would have
> : equivalent armour and we see the DS II take them down in RotJ so Bye Bye
> : Dyson Sphere.
> :
>
> Based on Edam and Johnatan's calcs. ISD's hull are not compose of enough
> neutronium to even make it worth the effort to put them there in the
> first place. The hull of SSD didn't stop Chewie to cut a hole inside
> it. As for the Dyson Sphere, if instead of neutronium its hull was

> Iron. Then it would take 10,000 shots of the DS. It takes one day to


> charge the DS in order to destroy a planet. Then it would take

> 10,000 days to destroy the entire Dyson Sphere. That means 27 years.
>

Wedge Antilles

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
to
You said the Dyson wins. I quote "either way, dyson is champ!". So you can't
even remember what you said when it's written in front of you. Also, not all
types of energy can be 'superconducted' by a star, I don't think. Blast it
with the Sun Crusher. bye-bye Dyson Sphere.

later,
Wedge

equat...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7mer73$coq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...


> did I say anything about it being a victory for the federation????
>i dont think so... as for the idea of firing the ds superlaser into the
>star, it wouldnt do anything, because the plasma that any star is made
>of is also superconductive... the energy you pump into it would come
>right back out again, manifesting itself as a momentary increase in the
>radiation flux... a stellar 'hiccup' if you will... as for getting in
>the door in the 1st place, we dont know wether the ds would be affected
>by the tractor beams in the same manner as was the enterprise - if you
>remember, they caused the E-D's engines to go offline... if that were to
>happen to the ds, it would potentially be in BIG trouble!
>
>In article <7me9nd$6h3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,


SNIPPED! Read other posts if you wanna read the start.

Wedge Antilles

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
to
The creator of the Sun Crusher, kevin J. Adnerson, when interviewed, has
several times said it is invincible, and that it was not destroyed when it
was sucked into the black hole beacsue it cannot be destroyed. I'll try to
find a copy of and point you to one of the interviews where he said this.
Also, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Qui Xux saying it was
indestructible in..... ummmm... srry, forgot whihc of the 4 books it is, but
either of of the Jedi Academy Trilogy or Darksaber, but I think it's JA2.
Could be wrong, I'll have a look sometime.

later,
Wedge


equat...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7mes37$d0u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...

PAUL JACQUES H.JR

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Michael January (xr...@iafrica.com) wrote:
: >
: >Based on Edam and Johnatan's calcs. ISD's hull are not compose of enough

: >neutronium to even make it worth the effort to put them there in the
: >first place. The hull of SSD didn't stop Chewie to cut a hole inside
: >it. As for the Dyson Sphere, if instead of neutronium its hull was
: >Iron. Then it would take 10,000 shots of the DS. It takes one day to
: >charge the DS in order to destroy a planet. Then it would take
: >10,000 days to destroy the entire Dyson Sphere. That means 27 years.
: >
:
: The neutronium in SW hulls obviously serves some purpose, or they

: wouldn't have bothered. The amount of neutronium is in contention
: because the basis for the calcs was not an un-official diagram of a
: non-existing vessel.

I'm surprise at this logic!

a) Please name the source claiming that ISD's hull have neutronium?

b) The question is not about the diagram! It is about the mass of an ISD.
Name any source about the mass of ISD. Give us a mass.
Now we know the density of neutronium: 5.968*10^16 Kg/m^3
We can find the percentage anytime. You will see it is not
enough to make a difference.

: Who needs the DS for this, sun-crusher to supernova the star at the


: centre of the sphere (DS or ISD can punch a hole in the sphere if
: necessary for the sun-crushers torpedoes). If not sun-crusher, then
: galaxy gun or centrepoint station.

You will need a lot of time. I've learn the radius of the Dyson
Sphere. It is the radius from Earth to our sun. Which is: 149.6*10^9m
The sphere has an area of: 2.81*10^23 m^2 Earth's area is: 5.1*10^14 m^2
This means you have about 5.52*10^8 times Earth. It will take the DS
1,512,329 years to destroy that sphere. Only the Empire is dumb enough
to do that!

: Lastly, maybe it would be better to haul out the world-devastators,


: all that readily refined material that went into the sphere, hmmm, how
: many ISD's, SSDs, and even DS's can we get out of that. MWA HA HA

None! Because the world-devastators were destroyed.


PAUL JACQUES H.JR

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Robert Williams (rs...@tesco.net) wrote:
: >Based on Edam and Johnatan's calcs. ISD's hull are not compose of enough
: >neutronium to even make it worth the effort to put them there in the
: >first place. The hull of SSD didn't stop Chewie to cut a hole inside
: >it.
:
: He didn't cut his way through a main piece of hull armour. This should be

: obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence.

You mean that the Empire is DUMB enough to have a weakness in its hull?

: Oh i forgot, you are stupid.

You should not talk to yourself that way Barro!

: In conclusion, if faced with a DS, the dyson sphere


: would soon become the dead
: sphere.

Yeah right! In 1,512,329 years.


PAUL JACQUES H.JR

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Robert Williams (rs...@tesco.net) wrote:
:
: PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...
: >
: >If that was true then how come, ISDs were deafeated against the rebels
: >in ROTJ?
:
: Becuase they are not from the trek universe, and mount similar weapons to

: imperial ships, and as such can damage them.

You're right! The EWOK's weapons were much weaker and they manage to
defeat Imperial troops on the ground. So Starfleet troops would have
a party!


Robert Williams

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
to

PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...
>Robert Williams (rs...@tesco.net) wrote:
>: >Based on Edam and Johnatan's calcs. ISD's hull are not compose of enough
>: >neutronium to even make it worth the effort to put them there in the
>: >first place. The hull of SSD didn't stop Chewie to cut a hole inside
>: >it.
>:
>: He didn't cut his way through a main piece of hull armour. This should be
>: obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence.
>
>You mean that the Empire is DUMB enough to have a weakness in its hull?

It has to have airlocks and docking parts, that are inherently tiny(man sized)
weak points in the hull.


>
>: Oh i forgot, you are stupid.
>
>You should not talk to yourself that way Barro!

Whats barro got to do with anything?

>
>: In conclusion, if faced with a DS, the dyson sphere
>: would soon become the dead
>: sphere.
>
>Yeah right! In 1,512,329 years.
>

Well, i don't when it would happen, although it would only take a few seconds.

HAHA!

Rob


Robert Williams

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...
>Robert Williams (rs...@tesco.net) wrote:
>:
>: PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...
>: >
>: >If that was true then how come, ISDs were deafeated against the rebels
>: >in ROTJ?
>:
>: Becuase they are not from the trek universe, and mount similar weapons to
>: imperial ships, and as such can damage them.
>
>You're right! The EWOK's weapons were much weaker and they manage to
>defeat Imperial troops on the ground.

Thats nothing to do with it. The ewoks didn't ahve any anti-ship weapons.
However, by your evasion of the point i accept your concesion.

So Starfleet troops would have
>a party!

Actually they would die as well, due to the fact they have no armour and trashy
weapons.

Rob


>


veg...@jps.net

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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In article <7mf2ep$ett$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,

"Wedge Antilles" <we...@tauniverse.com> wrote:
> You said the Dyson wins. I quote "either way, dyson is champ!". So you
can't
> even remember what you said when it's written in front of you. Also,
not all
> types of energy can be 'superconducted' by a star, I don't think.
Blast it
> with the Sun Crusher. bye-bye Dyson Sphere.
>
> later,
> Wedge
>
>
right. liek the imperials have any more sun crushers. also they need to
get inside the sphere which they can't so yoru point is moot.
peace,
ali

Fortunato

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Wedge Antilles wrote:
>
> The creator of the Sun Crusher, kevin J. Adnerson, when interviewed, has
> several times said it is invincible, and that it was not destroyed when it
> was sucked into the black hole beacsue it cannot be destroyed. I'll try to
> find a copy of and point you to one of the interviews where he said this.
> Also, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Qui Xux saying it was
> indestructible in..... ummmm... srry, forgot whihc of the 4 books it is, but
> either of of the Jedi Academy Trilogy or Darksaber, but I think it's JA2.
> Could be wrong, I'll have a look sometime.
>
> later,
> Wedge

The Sun Crusher would probably survive crashing into the Dyson Sphere.
This does not mean that it would be able to crash all the way through
the Sphere. Most likely it would crash into the Sphere, form a crater
and eventually get deep enough inside to get stuck. From what I
remember, the Sun Crusher didn't have engines that would allow it to ram
it's way through something this big.

It doesn't matter if the SC in indestructible or not in this case. It
will eventually not be able to push it's way any deeper into the Sphere.

If it could get in however, bye bye Dyson Sphere.

Michael January

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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On Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:52:05 GMT, equat...@my-deja.com wrote:

> did I say anything about it being a victory for the federation????
>i dont think so... as for the idea of firing the ds superlaser into the
>star, it wouldnt do anything, because the plasma that any star is made
>of is also superconductive... the energy you pump into it would come
>right back out again, manifesting itself as a momentary increase in the
>radiation flux... a stellar 'hiccup' if you will...

I doubt the equivalent of 7000 years of stellar radiation hitting it
in less than a second will be a 'stellar hiccup'. A fair amount of
that energy might be radiated 'inwards' as well as 'outwards', thus
cooking everybody inside the sphere.

Federation still ends up being toast.

Talon Karrde

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Everyone seems to be forgeting that the sun inside the Dyson was unstable,
that is why they abandoned it in the first place. The Enterprise with it's
so called sheilds could only survive for a few hours inside it before
Geordie and Scottie came to the rescue. So how could the Federation hide
there, eveyone woould be fried or irradiated to death.


Just thought I'd mention that.


--
Talon Karrde

======================================================
"Space Corp directive 34142"
"No officer with false teeth should attempt oral sex in zero gravity."
Kryten: Red Dwarf
======================================================

Paul J Oh

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Jonathan Pierce wrote:

>
> Actually it did not destroy the pk. When the Constellation blew up it just
> shut the pk down (the insides ie engin, power cells, etc) the outside hull
> was left floating in space.
>

Really? I haven't seen the ep in YEARS. Like 11 years ago or so. Anyhow, the
Star Trek Encyclopedia says

"The ancient weapon was finally destroyed when Kirk sent the hulk of the U.S.S.
Constellation to explode in the planet killer's interior, destroying it." (p
243)

Of course when they said "destroy" it could be remotely possible that they meant
disable, but that seems odd enough. In either case, it's still something to
think about. :)

Paul J Oh

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Wedge Antilles wrote:

> The creator of the Sun Crusher, kevin J. Adnerson, when interviewed, has
> several times said it is invincible, and that it was not destroyed when it
> was sucked into the black hole beacsue it cannot be destroyed. I'll try to
> find a copy of and point you to one of the interviews where he said this.
> Also, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Qui Xux saying it was
> indestructible in..... ummmm... srry, forgot whihc of the 4 books it is, but
> either of of the Jedi Academy Trilogy or Darksaber, but I think it's JA2.
> Could be wrong, I'll have a look sometime.
>
> later,
> Wedge
>

Wedge, do you have any idea of what you are saying? Saying that the Sun Crusher
is *invincible* is exactly the same thing as saying the Ent-D's shields are
*totally impervious* to laser fire, whether it's from a laser pointer pen from
Walmart or the DS's superlaser. Do you not see the ridiculousness of your
statement? And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought K Anderson was considered
the Anti-Christ of SW authors. Haven't read his stuff, and from recommendations
I've read over the last year, I don't think I'm missing out on much
literary-wise.

Baroo

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Jul 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/13/99
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Exactly. Why does thjis guy bring up technology from st:tng without thinking
about it. The Dyson Sphere was a failure. The Enterprise was almost toasted in
the structure and werte unable to leave. It was only through LaForge's and
Scotty's help that the Enterprise could escape. So I say go ahead, let the Feds
enter and get trapped in the sphere. The Imperials will just wait outside and
laugh as the Federation boils inside...actually that would be quite funny.
Also, by stating that the Feds would take refuge in the sphere, you're
indicating that the Imperials are superior...I mean why else whould they hide
in the sphere.

Chong Sin Lim's News

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...
>You're right! The EWOK's weapons were much weaker and they manage to
>defeat Imperial troops on the ground. So Starfleet troops would have
>a party!


Wrong! Ewok rocks and spears are Unique...;P Super! even...;P Why else do
you think they could attack supposedly well armored Storm Troopers with just
rocks and spears and arrows? I don't think Starfleet are that special at
all...;P

P.S. By the way, that scene with the Ewoks in ROTJ despite being o.k.ish...
was still not very good at all...;P

equat...@my-deja.com

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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wedge, wedge, wedge... you just confirmed exactly what I said... dyson
is champ... if you were to go up against thomas hearns and try to beat
the crap out of him, he would probably just stand there and laugh at you
, because you wouldnt have a chance in hell... he could just stand there
and not respond at all... the same thing goes for the sphere... even if
it has no defensive weaponry - something I find unlikely, but possible
given that we never saw any evidence of any - it would be an excercise
in futility for the ds to even try to hurt it... thus dyson wins by
being effectively invulnerable to the ds... it doesnt need to shoot
back, because that would be like bothering to kill a dust mite that cant
possibly bother you, except to maybe clean off any interstellar dust
that might have collected on you over the past few million years... you
obviously have no idea of the mind-boggling scale of such a construct.

In article <7mf2ep$ett$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,
"Wedge Antilles" <we...@tauniverse.com> wrote:
> You said the Dyson wins. I quote "either way, dyson is champ!". So you
can't
> even remember what you said when it's written in front of you. Also,
not all
> types of energy can be 'superconducted' by a star, I don't think.
Blast it
> with the Sun Crusher. bye-bye Dyson Sphere.
>
> later,
> Wedge
>

> equat...@my-deja.com wrote in message
<7mer73$coq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...

> > did I say anything about it being a victory for the
federation????
> >i dont think so... as for the idea of firing the ds superlaser into
the
> >star, it wouldnt do anything, because the plasma that any star is
made
> >of is also superconductive... the energy you pump into it would come
> >right back out again, manifesting itself as a momentary increase in
the

> >radiation flux... a stellar 'hiccup' if you will... as for getting
in
> >the door in the 1st place, we dont know wether the ds would be
affected
> >by the tractor beams in the same manner as was the enterprise - if
you
> >remember, they caused the E-D's engines to go offline... if that were
to
> >happen to the ds, it would potentially be in BIG trouble!
> >
> >In article <7me9nd$6h3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>
> SNIPPED! Read other posts if you wanna read the start.
>
>

equat...@my-deja.com

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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btw, you also make the erroneous assumption that the energy the ds pumps
out is in a form that is incompatible with the physical processes going
on in the star... from what I have gathered from being on this group as
long as i have, all forms of turbolaser, including the ds superlaser,
are a form of plasma weapon... a star is composed of plasma, and has a
mass of several million earth size planets itself... the ds couldnt hope
to pump enough energy into a star to cause anything remotely interesting
to happen... the suncrusher otoh, could cause a supernova, but it would
have to go thru several thousand km of near solid carbon-neutronium
composite just to get in firing range... a feat for which there is no
evidence that the sc can perform... remember that dyson's shell's
thickness is on average egual to the diameter of an earth size planet,
and is solid to boot (the people live on the inner SURFACE! otoh, the
only evidence we have for the sc's ability to fly thru objects is
limited to the time it flew thru an ISD, which does NOT, contrary to
your mistaken belief, have neutronium alloyed into its' hull... it uses
nodules of neutronium scattered throught the hull to attenuate
(translation: reduce/diminish) impact forces caused by hits from enemy
weapons fire...

as for the sc torps... sure, if it got thru, and used them, the star
would go bye bye... but the sphere would still be there... only the
inner surface would be cooked by the nova... the structure would still
remain... the construct is still champ!

equat...@my-deja.com

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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a perfect example of what happens when authors run amok with physics...
if what he apparently said is true, then the suncrusher would be able to
survive beyond the end of the universe, when all matter, including
neutronium, will revert back to subatomic particles... remember that all
matter has a half life, and that some elements are just more stable
than others... what anderson and you are saying is that the suncrusher's
armor has no half-life! on top of this, it can survive the tidal forces
present at the event horizon of a black hole - a phenomenon
that literally shreds matter at the atomic level?????

fine... lets say it can do that... it still has to somehow penetrate
thru thousands of km of solid carbon-neutronium... it would probably
have to ram the sphere at ftl speeds (in normal space) to do so, which
is patently impossible...

In article <7mf2il$f5f$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,


"Wedge Antilles" <we...@tauniverse.com> wrote:
> The creator of the Sun Crusher, kevin J. Adnerson, when interviewed,
has
> several times said it is invincible, and that it was not destroyed
when it
> was sucked into the black hole beacsue it cannot be destroyed. I'll
try to
> find a copy of and point you to one of the interviews where he said
this.
> Also, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Qui Xux saying it was
> indestructible in..... ummmm... srry, forgot whihc of the 4 books it
is, but
> either of of the Jedi Academy Trilogy or Darksaber, but I think it's
JA2.
> Could be wrong, I'll have a look sometime.
>

> later,
> Wedge
>
> equat...@my-deja.com wrote in message

<7mes37$d0u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >hmmm... is there any evidence that the sun crusher could survive a
> >ramming attempt thru a structure made primarily of neutronium? I
know
> >that it is capable of ramming thru an ISD, but they only use chunks
of
> >neutronium disbursed throughout their structure as a means of
> >attenuating impact forces... the sun crusher wouldnt so much fly
> >through them as thru the normal (much weaker) hullmetal structure
(which
> >is itself mostly composed of empty spaces, after all an ISD is _not_
a
> >solid piece of metal), bumping the neutronium nodules aside as it
> >went... like bumpercars... the primary structure of the dyson sphere
is
> >a SOLID composite of carbon and neutronium... sort of like the US
army's
> >cermet composites used on tanks, only a whole lot tougher and
naturally
> >superconductive... I doubt that the suncrusher could survive ramming
> >thru that material for several hundred to hundred thousand km... its
> >tough... but not _that_ tough.
> >

> >In article <7meo8i$hs0$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,


> > "Wedge Antilles" <we...@tauniverse.com> wrote:
> >> No, that way, it's a draw. Dyson sphere is not champ, because the
DS
> >is not
> >> damaged, let alone destroyed, and neither is the Dyson Sphere.
Anyway,
> >ram a
> >> Sun Crusher through the damn Dyson Sphere, supernova the star
inside,
> >and be
> >> done with it
> >
> >

Michael January

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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On Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:07:04 -0600, Paul J Oh
<Paul.Bug...@m.cc.utah.edu> wrote:

>
>
>Wedge Antilles wrote:
>
>> The creator of the Sun Crusher, kevin J. Adnerson, when interviewed, has
>> several times said it is invincible, and that it was not destroyed when it
>> was sucked into the black hole beacsue it cannot be destroyed. I'll try to
>> find a copy of and point you to one of the interviews where he said this.
>> Also, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Qui Xux saying it was
>> indestructible in..... ummmm... srry, forgot whihc of the 4 books it is, but
>> either of of the Jedi Academy Trilogy or Darksaber, but I think it's JA2.
>> Could be wrong, I'll have a look sometime.
>>
>> later,
>> Wedge
>>
>

>Wedge, do you have any idea of what you are saying? Saying that the Sun Crusher
>is *invincible* is exactly the same thing as saying the Ent-D's shields are
>*totally impervious* to laser fire, whether it's from a laser pointer pen from
>Walmart or the DS's superlaser. Do you not see the ridiculousness of your
>statement? And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought K Anderson was considered
>the Anti-Christ of SW authors. Haven't read his stuff, and from recommendations
>I've read over the last year, I don't think I'm missing out on much
>literary-wise.
>
>
>Paul
>

I agree with paul, absolutely.

Rog

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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I think that Paul belives you are Barro.

--
Rog

Quote of the week:
"Be a captain Picard, boldly go where no MAN has gone before" (take the
implied meaning)
- SMG (aka Buffy) in Cruel Intentions (I really think she should have said
Kirk).

Robert Williams <rs...@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:7mfjuv$l47$1...@barcode.tesco.net...


>
> PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...

Rog

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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The Ewoks didn't defeat the Stormtroopers. If you watch the battle you will
find that the Imperial troops drove the Ewoks off into the forest and would
have captured Han and Leia if Chewie hadn't had that AT-ST. I imagine that
many Ewoks will killed that day and a lot of Imperials probably escaped into
the forest and were rounded up after the rebels had destroyed the DS.

--
Rog

Quote of the week:
"Be a captain Picard, boldly go where no MAN has gone before" (take the
implied meaning)
- SMG (aka Buffy) in Cruel Intentions (I really think she should have said
Kirk).

PAUL JACQUES H.JR <he79...@merlin.uqam.ca> wrote in message
news:pAHi3.4752$8v6.3...@carnaval.risq.qc.ca...


> Robert Williams (rs...@tesco.net) wrote:
> :
> : PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...
> : >
> : >If that was true then how come, ISDs were deafeated against the rebels
> : >in ROTJ?
> :
> : Becuase they are not from the trek universe, and mount similar weapons
to
> : imperial ships, and as such can damage them.
>

Phong Nguyen

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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In article <LvHi3.4720$8v6.3...@carnaval.risq.qc.ca>,
he79...@merlin.uqam.ca (PAUL JACQUES H.JR) wrote:
> Michael January (xr...@iafrica.com) wrote:
> : >

<snip>

> : Lastly, maybe it would be better to haul out the world-devastators,
> : all that readily refined material that went into the sphere, hmmm,
how
> : many ISD's, SSDs, and even DS's can we get out of that. MWA HA HA
>
> None! Because the world-devastators were destroyed.
>

The World Devestators were simply large-scale applications of
existing technology, which are present in the massive construction
droids often seen on Coruscant.

It doesn't matter if they're destroyed or not. The technology
is still there.

--
phong nguyen ack...@baka.iname.com / remove baka

Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it.

Phong Nguyen

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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It is not known if the Superlaser is plasma, just that it is based
on turbolaser tech, abliet on a vastly larger scale.

The DS outputs far more power than Sol. It's a requirement for the
power required to kill a planet. I doubt the superlaser could
affect a star.

The SC, while long gone, can create a self-destructive chain
reaction in matter. The more mass, the more destuction. A
Galaxy Gun missile probably could engage it as well.

The GG missile seems to work like the phaser's NDF, though on
a *much* more massive scale.

> In article <7mf2ep$ett$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,


> "Wedge Antilles" <we...@tauniverse.com> wrote:
> > You said the Dyson wins. I quote "either way, dyson is champ!". So
you
> can't
> > even remember what you said when it's written in front of you. Also,
> not all
> > types of energy can be 'superconducted' by a star, I don't think.
> Blast it
> > with the Sun Crusher. bye-bye Dyson Sphere.
> >

> > later,
> > Wedge
> >
> > equat...@my-deja.com wrote in message

> <7mer73$coq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > > did I say anything about it being a victory for the
> federation????
> > >i dont think so... as for the idea of firing the ds superlaser into
> the
> > >star, it wouldnt do anything, because the plasma that any star is
> made
> > >of is also superconductive... the energy you pump into it would
come
> > >right back out again, manifesting itself as a momentary increase in
> the
> > >radiation flux... a stellar 'hiccup' if you will... as for getting
> in
> > >the door in the 1st place, we dont know wether the ds would be
> affected
> > >by the tractor beams in the same manner as was the enterprise - if
> you
> > >remember, they caused the E-D's engines to go offline... if that
were
> to
> > >happen to the ds, it would potentially be in BIG trouble!
> > >
> > >In article <7me9nd$6h3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> >
> > SNIPPED! Read other posts if you wanna read the start.
> >
> >
>

Robert Williams

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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Rog wrote in message <7mi7dm$n6j$2...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...

>I think that Paul belives you are Barro.

Further showing that he is not in touch with reality, and is completely
incorrect.

Rob

>
>--
>Rog
>
>Quote of the week:
>"Be a captain Picard, boldly go where no MAN has gone before" (take the
>implied meaning)
>- SMG (aka Buffy) in Cruel Intentions (I really think she should have said
>Kirk).
>

>Robert Williams <rs...@tesco.net> wrote in message
>news:7mfjuv$l47$1...@barcode.tesco.net...
>>

>> PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ...

Nonsuch

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99