[100%-OT] What is Christianity
Chuck
Perhaps the most ironic thing about all this is that I come on this
newsgroup every day to discuss fun, unimportant stuff, rather than work
Today I come home and what do I see: three messages in my private e-mail on
a discussion of homosexuality, two threads dedicated to the discussion of
religion, and a thread proposing that God is an alien. Well well well,
anyone actually feel like talking about Star Wars?
Sorry, needed to get that out of my system. Okay, I'm writing this because
I want to clear the air on what EXACTLY Christianity is. I am bringing this
up ONLY because it is being discussed in so many threads that I feel I
should set the record straight. For those of you who aren't aware, I'm a
minister, ordained in an established church and officially recognized as
being such by the federal government of the United States. I have the
paperwork if necessary. I believe this establishes that I'm the most
qualified person to talk on this subject, and while I make no claims of
perfection, I hope that my authority on the subject will at least be
considered by anyone who wishes to disagree. This being established, let me
start at the beginning.
Man and woman were perfect; man and woman screwed up. This is how the whole
thing starts. Man and woman are now sinners: they do things that are wrong.
It's part of their nature now, they're always doing stuff they shouldn't.
So, because of this, they're no longer the perfect creatures they were.
What's more, like a genetic defect, this sin is passed from one generation
to the next: this is called "original sin". All people are born like this,
and this is the reason we do stuff that's wrong: we're sinners. Everybody's
like this, and for this reason, everyone's a sinner.
Now, God's stuck with a problem. On the one hand, he loves humanity;
they're his children. On the other, he is committed to justice, and he
knows that anyone who sins is deserving of punishment. In God's eyes all
sins are equal: murder and disrespect are all wrong and all deserving of
punishment. So, God's stuck in a rather awkward position: he needs to
punish for justice sake, but wants to spare his children out of love. This
is where Christ enters the picture.
Jesus Christ, true God (meaning he is God), becomes human. He never sins,
ever. You see, being conceived by the Holy Spirit (not in the sense of
having sex, please don't bring that into this), he doesn't have this
original sin. So for his entire life he resists temptation. He doesn't
need to pay for his sin because he has none. Before he dies, he takes the
punishment of everyone for himself, and then he dies. This is a bit like if
you were in a court and given a fine of $1 Million, and someone stands up
and offers to pay it for you: the sentence is given and the payment is made
in full; justice is served. Jesus returns to life again, and, well, that's
the end of that story.
Now we come back to us. Because Jesus already paid the price and served
justice we don't have to pay the tab anymore. We sin, we screw up, but we
have the comfort of knowing that it's already been paid for. There is no
action we need to take after this, it's all done. Like the man in the
courtroom, all we need to do is say "Yeah, um, he'll pay it for me," that's
where faith comes in. Faith means accepting that Jesus paid for your sin
and that you therefore don't need to pay for it. So, anyone who wants to
can go to heaven. Now, we all have free will, and therefore have the right
to say "No, I don't need you, I'll take care of it myself." In that case, a
person is choosing to not accept what's been done for them and would rather
pay the price themselves. The price, unfortunately is hell. I can't tell
you what hell is, because I don't know. It is sometimes described as a
fire, but regardless, it shouldn't be viewed as anything Dante ever visited.
Hell is the complete separation from God. In short, those who say "I want
nothing to do with God" get exactly what they ask for.
If you're still with me, good. Now, here's where things get hairy. All you
need to be saved is faith. This must not be forgotten. However, when a
person has faith but still goes right ahead sinning all the time, their
faith becomes in jeopardy. It's not that you MUST do what is right, but
rather that you should do what's right. Sin attacks and weakens faith; it
makes us forget why we need Jesus in the first place. Think of it like
this: A stranger offers you a car and says "This is your car, your only car.
And I've made a deal with the government that the traffic laws no longer
apply to you; you'll never get pulled over, never get a ticket. You're free
and clear. However, it'd really be a good idea if you didn't go banging
into things, that you change the oil regularly and get a tune up. Oh, and
if you can, try not to go banging into curbs too much, and don't shift into
reverse if you're going 80 mph." You don't HAVE to do what he says, but you
should at least try to. In the same way, you don't need to never ever sin
again, but you do need to try to avoid it; and when you do, you should ask
for forgiveness, both of the person you've harmed (if applicable) and God.
But again, just to emphasize, these things aren't what's necessary to be
saved; it is faith alone in Jesus that does that.
I hope this has set the record straight on this entire issue. As always,
anyone who wishes to further discuss this with me is welcome.
Oh, and here's the link to the FAQ: http://ttm.choam.org/faq.html
Chuck
"From there they continued on to Beer" (Number 21:16)
Spyda
So by entertaining the thought that God might be an alien you'd go
straight to hell whatever it is?
--
A time for change
__________________________________________________________________
http://spyda.itgo.com
ICQ#: 39921647
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ubiqt...@my-deja.com
meant to I am just telling you what I believe, which everyone has
a right to do.
To me what you've just said is a load of rubbish. Christianity started by a
man who was good at talking, a con man, he was so good that he got loads and
loads of people to believe what he was talking about so much so that they
still believe today. Now your going to ask what i am? well i am a satanist,
now before anyone starts saying things, most the stuff you probably think
that satanist do are complete and utter crap, we dont go round Sacrificing
goat babies or anything like that. Yes you do get people that do that, they
only think they are doing what satanist do( if you want to know more read the
Satanic Bible). Why do they think thats what satanist do?, because they have
been brought up in a place that says this is what they do, it has all been
made up by the church. Just because i am a satanist don't mean i am a bad
person, i don't go round murdering and doing what you would call Evil things.
But i am not limited by something that says you can't do this it eveil its
the work of the Devil. It is my choice in what I do nobody else's. If i
choose to kill someone, thats my choice and i deserve to be punished i.e.
executed for it. Nobody control me, this is what i see in religion, that you
think that god controls your actions. When i see on TV or read in the paper
about some disaster a survivor says I just thank God i survived, yet how many
peopled died the didnt do wrong did they they are just like the person who
survived why didnt god save them. Or when someone dies who say was in good
health etc. people say "it was gods will"or"God works in mistirous ways".
Why do people say this, simple god does not exist otherwise he would have
saved they person who was in good health from dying, he would have stoped the
disaster(Turkeys earthquake the other month) in which thousands of people
died, because as you say we are his children. Saying the above things is
just there way of trying to keep the illusion of there being a god.
Now I have said what I want to for now. Again if this offends you it is not
meant to, I am entitled to say what i believe just as much as what anyone
else is. I do respect that other people believe there is a god, if they
choose to, fair play to them, it's there choice, therefore i will ask you to
do the same, respect me, in that this is what i choose to believe, im not
asking you to believe what i said just that this is my choice. Thankyou.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rog
1. Can you define exactly what things are sins (eg the knights on the
crusades were killing people but doing so in the name of God were they
sinning)?
2. Is it true that you can do lots of sins but as long as you repent after
them and try to stop you go to heaven, is there a points were someone does
to many bad things for God to want them in heaven (eg if Hitler repented
before he died would he have gone to heaven even though he was one of the
most evil men in history - btw this point is hypothetical because he was an
atheist but it provides a good example)?
And just one semi OT question:
1. You are a minister but you work as a teacher so do you teach religious
stuff or do you do it seperately in your free time?
Thanks in advance.
--
Rog
"Everything is politics"
ASVS Mastermind Website: www.Slaanesh.Freeserve.co.uk/quiz.htm
Captain Gingerbeard
> 1. Can you define exactly what things are sins (eg the knights on the
> crusades were killing people but doing so in the name of God were they
> sinning)?
> 2. Is it true that you can do lots of sins but as long as you repent
after
> them and try to stop you go to heaven, is there a points were someone does
> to many bad things for God to want them in heaven (eg if Hitler repented
> before he died would he have gone to heaven even though he was one of the
> most evil men in history - btw this point is hypothetical because he was
an
> atheist but it provides a good example)?
>
> And just one semi OT question:
> 1. You are a minister but you work as a teacher so do you teach religious
> stuff or do you do it seperately in your free time?
The way I see Christianity, or the way the Bible intends us to see it,
is that governments shouldn't exist. The ideal existance for everyone
to follow those rules that God has set out for us in anarchy.
Rog
Captain Gingerbeard <captain.g...@dtn.ntl.com> wrote in message
news:87hbjm$t5u$1...@nclient3-gui.server.dtn.ntl.com...
up our own governments otherwise we will end up being ruled by the person
who has the biggest club and most followers to beat up anyone who opposed
him.
Captain Gingerbeard
> up our own governments otherwise we will end up being ruled by the person
> who has the biggest club and most followers to beat up anyone who opposed
> him.
Anarchy isn't the same as chaos, Rog.
Rog
communism it is a good idea in theory but in real life somebody will usually
be too ambitious than is good for him and see it as an optitunity for
pesonal power (ie Stalin in the USSR).
Captain Gingerbeard
Rog <ro...@slaanesh.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:87hda7$78a$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Captain Gingerbeard <captain.g...@dtn.ntl.com> wrote in message
> news:87hd0m$94$1...@nclient3-gui.server.dtn.ntl.com...
> > > Unfortunately if God doesn't wish to govern us himself then we have to
> set
> > > up our own governments otherwise we will end up being ruled by the
> person
> > > who has the biggest club and most followers to beat up anyone who
> opposed
> > > him.
> >
> > Anarchy isn't the same as chaos, Rog.
> >
> I know I have had to study it in politics. Pesonally I believe that like
> communism it is a good idea in theory but in real life somebody will
usually
> be too ambitious than is good for him and see it as an optitunity for
> pesonal power (ie Stalin in the USSR).
You're absolutely right. That's why it would have to be in ideal
circumstances
and the sort of people you would want there wouldn't be the ones who riot
to denounce capitalism.
Rog
Maybe one day ideal circumstances will exist but unfortunately I somehow
can't see it.
Captain Gingerbeard
> can't see it.
That's very true.
Chuck
Rog <ro...@slaanesh.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:87h9rl$4gv$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Two questions:
> 1. Can you define exactly what things are sins (eg the knights on the
> crusades were killing people but doing so in the name of God were they
> sinning)?
The knights used the crusades as an excuse to go around killing people. The
common soldiers were duped into believing what they were doing was God's
will.
A sin is any thought or action which is a violation of God's law. The basis
of this is the Ten Commandments, but the concepts are a bit more broad. For
example, while masturbation isn't specifically mentioned in the Ten
Commandments, it is considered an aspect of the Sixth Commandment
(adultery), because it involves lust. Sin however is more than a physical
act, it also matters what's in the heart. For example, suicide is a sin,
but throwing yourself on a grenade to save your friends isn't a sin because
of what's in your heart (you really don't want to die).
> 2. Is it true that you can do lots of sins but as long as you repent
after
> them and try to stop you go to heaven, is there a points were someone does
> to many bad things for God to want them in heaven (eg if Hitler repented
> before he died would he have gone to heaven even though he was one of the
> most evil men in history - btw this point is hypothetical because he was
an
> atheist but it provides a good example)?
Yes, you'll go to heaven. Hitler obviously was very evil, but even for one
such as him, if he'd realized in the end his error and was truly repentent
and trusted in God's forgiveness, even one such as he could be saved. This
may disgust some of you but for the Christian the comfort is "If he can save
scum like that than he can save me."
>
> And just one semi OT question:
> 1. You are a minister but you work as a teacher so do you teach religious
> stuff or do you do it seperately in your free time?
I teach in a religious school. I'm a minister who was specifically called
to serve as a teacher. The line between the two is very thin; sometimes
pastor's teach and sometimes teachers preach. Although I teach five days a
week, I've been trained to be a preacher and I do direct worship services
fairly regularly; I can perform the sacraments and marry people (any
requests?). When the preacher was unable to make it to the twins for the
baptism I just performed the service myself. It's kind of complicated but I
hope this helps make it a little clearer.
lordsh...@my-deja.com
least not today). My whole point of view can be summed up as "Nice
story. Evidence please." But anyway, we have another thread for that
already so I won't get into it here.
Allen W. McDonnell
>meant to, I am entitled to say what i believe just as much as what anyone
>else is. I do respect that other people believe there is a god, if they
>choose to, fair play to them, it's there choice, therefore i will ask you
to
>do the same, respect me, in that this is what i choose to believe, im not
>asking you to believe what i said just that this is my choice. Thankyou
>
is Satan?
--
Life is what YOU make of it, so why are you sitting there reading this?
Allen W. McDonnell
AIM Tanada1945
ICQ 44757320
Email Tan...@provide.spam.net
Chancellor D. Brooks
Jesus was not his real name.
Modern Christianity's ancestor was invented by Romans 300 years after
his death.
Lord Edam de Fromage
>To me what you've just said is a load of rubbish. Christianity started
by a
>man who was good at talking, a con man, he was so good that he got loads
and
>loads of people to believe what he was talking about so much so that they
>still believe today. Now your going to ask what i am? well i am a
satanist,
You are a christian who is too stupid to realise he is a christian.
Matthew Hyde
*insert bad joke abt you marrying people and taking requests here*
--
Darth Maul realized his power in
this situation. The power to fix the ship. And to acquire more
chocolate.
--"Darth Maul Takes a Holiday" (Jen)
Matt Hyde, math lab consultant
Michigan Tech math sciences
http://www.mathlab.mtu.edu/~mdoughy
Chuck
<lordsh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:87i0vk$gjd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I don't feel like slugging it out over original sin and whatnot (at
> least not today). My whole point of view can be summed up as "Nice
> story. Evidence please." But anyway, we have another thread for that
> already so I won't get into it here.
No pun intended, but thank God. ;-)
Rob Dalton
[snip]
This planet can only support so many people.
--
Dalton
AIM: RobPDalton
ICQ: 50342303
Most people are not particularly good at anything.
Rob Dalton
>
> ubiqt...@my-deja.com wrote in message <87h7h1$vrq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>
> by a
> >man who was good at talking, a con man, he was so good that he got loads
> and
> >loads of people to believe what he was talking about so much so that they
> >still believe today. Now your going to ask what i am? well i am a
> satanist,
>
LOL That's funny.
--
Dalton
AIM: RobPDalton
ICQ: 50342303
If we could just find out who's in charge, we could kill him.
Chuck
Matthew Hyde <mdo...@mtu.edu> wrote in message
news:87ij5h$3fr$1...@campus3.mtu.edu...
> > Stanists are anti-christians.
>
> Bow down before Stan!
"Yeah, I'm Stan. Yeah, I'm the one who bought your soul. Satan? Sorry,
I'm afraid I haven't met him. No, no I'm afraid I can't get Kate Moss to
have sex with you once, let alone every night. No, I have no special
powers. Why'd I buy your soul? Well, I'm looking to diversify my
portfolio."
Rob Dalton
>
> >> >To me what you've just said is a load of rubbish. Christianity
> started
> >> by a
> >> >man who was good at talking, a con man, he was so good that he got
> loads
> >> and
> >> >loads of people to believe what he was talking about so much so that
> they
> >> >still believe today. Now your going to ask what i am? well i am a
> >> satanist,
> >>
> >
> >LOL That's funny.
>
>
Yeah, I know LOL
> Stanists are anti-christians.
Yeah, if you're a Satanist, then you have to also believe in God.
--
Dalton
AIM: RobPDalton
ICQ: 50342303
After things go from bad to worse, the cycle will repeat itself.
Chuck
Matthew Hyde <mdo...@mtu.edu> wrote in message
news:87iktp$59j$2...@campus3.mtu.edu...
>
>
> LOL! Am I in Heck?
Yup. Better watch out or I'll start poking you with my pitchspoon.
> > > > Stanists are anti-christians.
> > >
> > > Bow down before Stan!
> > "Yeah, I'm Stan. Yeah, I'm the one who bought your soul. Satan?
Sorry,
> > I'm afraid I haven't met him. No, no I'm afraid I can't get Kate Moss
to
> > have sex with you once, let alone every night. No, I have no special
> > powers. Why'd I buy your soul? Well, I'm looking to diversify my
> > portfolio."
--
Chuck
"Harry, I want you to sell me a condom.... for I am a Protestant!'"
Rob Dalton
[snip]
> > Stanists are anti-christians.
>
> Bow down before Stan!
Uh-oh. Now Cyborg Stan will think he is a deity!
--
Dalton
AIM: RobPDalton
ICQ: 50342303
ALL HAIL BRAK
Lord Edam de Fromage
started
>> by a
>> >man who was good at talking, a con man, he was so good that he got
loads
>> and
>> >loads of people to believe what he was talking about so much so that
they
>> >still believe today. Now your going to ask what i am? well i am a
>> satanist,
>>
>
>LOL That's funny.
It's the truth man.
Stanists are anti-christians.
Matthew Hyde
> Rob Dalton wrote in message <389CC77C...@erols.com>...
> started
> >> by a
> >> >man who was good at talking, a con man, he was so good that he got
> loads
> >> and
> >> >loads of people to believe what he was talking about so much so that
> they
> >> >still believe today. Now your going to ask what i am? well i am a
> >> satanist,
> >>
> >
> >LOL That's funny.
> It's the truth man.
> Stanists are anti-christians.
Bow down before Stan!
--
Darth Maul realized his power in
this situation. The power to fix the ship. And to acquire more
chocolate.
--"Darth Maul Takes a Holiday"
Matt Hyde, math lab consultant
Matthew Hyde
LOL! Am I in Heck?
Chuck <CS...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Matthew Hyde <mdo...@mtu.edu> wrote in message
> news:87ij5h$3fr$1...@campus3.mtu.edu...
> > > Stanists are anti-christians.
> >
> > Bow down before Stan!
> "Yeah, I'm Stan. Yeah, I'm the one who bought your soul. Satan? Sorry,
> I'm afraid I haven't met him. No, no I'm afraid I can't get Kate Moss to
> have sex with you once, let alone every night. No, I have no special
> powers. Why'd I buy your soul? Well, I'm looking to diversify my
> portfolio."
--
Kynes
> Unfortunately if God doesn't wish to govern us himself then we have to set
> up our own governments otherwise we will end up being ruled by the person
> who has the biggest club and most followers to beat up anyone who opposed
> him.
Yes, it would be a shame if world government was reduced to military
might. ;)
--
-LK!
[ ky...@choam.org ] [ ICQ: 795238 ] [ AIM: Kynes23 ]
"Being an illiterate fuckwad = Admission of Defeat." - C.S. Strowbridge
Rog
about.
--
Rog
"A bat, a chicken what's the difference?"
ASVS Mastermind Website: www.Slaanesh.Freeserve.co.uk/quiz.htm
Rog
Kynes <ky...@choam.org> wrote in message
news:jX5n4.14724$Nv1.1...@news1.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> "Rog" <ro...@slaanesh.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:87hc2v$6br$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> > Unfortunately if God doesn't wish to govern us himself then we have to
set
> > up our own governments otherwise we will end up being ruled by the
person
> > who has the biggest club and most followers to beat up anyone who
opposed
> > him.
>
> Yes, it would be a shame if world government was reduced to military
> might. ;)
Of course such a thing could never happen with governments such as the USA
and Russia looking after us :)
WrmHrtdWlf
>such as him, if he'd realized in the end his error and was truly repentent
>and trusted in God's forgiveness, even one such as he could be saved. This
>may disgust some of you but for the Christian the comfort is "If he can save
>scum like that than he can save me."
>>
>> And just one semi OT question:
>> 1. You are a minister but you work as a teacher so do you teach religious
>> stuff or do you do it seperately in your free time?
>I teach in a religious school. I'm a minister who was specifically called
>to serve as a teacher. The line between the two is very thin; sometimes
>pastor's teach and sometimes teachers preach. Although I teach five days a
>week, I've been trained to be a preacher and I do direct worship services
>fairly regularly; I can perform the sacraments and marry people (any
>requests?). When the preacher was unable to make it to the twins for the
>baptism I just performed the service myself. It's kind of complicated but I
>hope this helps make it a little clearer.
>
>Chuck
Methodist?
Chuck
WrmHrtdWlf <wrmhr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000206143615...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> Methodist?
Lutheran
--
Chuck
Sci-Fi Debris: http://pages.prodigy.net/csonn/debris.html
Join the Star Wars vs. Star Trek Webring!
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LT.HIT-MAN
it is to do right to me it's the strugle to do the right thing, to have a
changed heart and to live by the word of God it's hard thing to do some
times, I know good and I know evil, lord knows that I have done some real
nasty things in my pst but he has given me though Jesus to ablity to feel
something towards other people then death and hate, I keep screwing up but
at lest I try to do the right thing, the right thing being some who cares
about other epople and tries to help out if I can but now adays I am finding
it harder to do so I have not been paying much attention to the big sky
daddy but I will aways try to to what's right after all God is the final
judge of all materes of heaven and earth.
--
" Dead heroes are a dime a dozen
It's the live ones you have to
Watch out for."
LT.Hit-Man