Gravity
YouGoFirst
there is a scene in the Phanom Menace where the R2 and his pals are on the
outside hull of the space ship. While I realize that they don't go flying
off due to wind, what keeps them on the hull? I ask this because unless
the ship is doing some sort of a loop, the droids would probably fall off.
Are the Star Wars gravity generators such that they effect things outside of
the ship, or does R2 and company have magnets on their wheels and the hull
of the ship is comprised of a substance that is magnetic? How does this
work?
Lord Edam de Fromage
benk...@BITEME.hotmail.com says...
It's superconducting electromagnetism
Tyralak
news:gclZc.540914$Gx4.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
I would think the droids would have some sort of magnetic clamping system.
--
I wouldn't be caught dead with a necrophiliac.
Tyralak,
Supreme Commander Of The Imperial Romulan Warbird, Psionax
Official ASVS Token Trekkie
Tyralak
news:MPG.1b9ff87b...@news.individual.net:
Magnetic buttock putty, perhaps?
YouGoFirst
make sense to me that in a universe where traveling from one star system to
another is possible would be using an iron based alloy for its hull, and
then to be using one that is magnetic? I guess that the only other way
would be if they are producing a magnetic on the hull using an electrical
current, but then I would ask, how is the current running through the hull.
As you can see in the movie, the hull is virtually a single piece, how would
you get electrons to flow? And even if you did, wouldn't you have to run a
lot of power throught he hull?
They didn't have a clamping system, because they had to be mobile and quick.
"Tyralak" <tyr...@SecureUndisclosedLocation.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9557627BFAA4Bty...@216.168.3.44...
The Baron
<benk...@BITEME.hotmail.com> wrote:
>Then that would imply that the hull of the ship is magnetic? It does not
>make sense to me that in a universe where traveling from one star system to
>another is possible would be using an iron based alloy for its hull, and
>then to be using one that is magnetic? I guess that the only other way
>would be if they are producing a magnetic on the hull using an electrical
>current, but then I would ask, how is the current running through the hull.
>As you can see in the movie, the hull is virtually a single piece, how would
>you get electrons to flow? And even if you did, wouldn't you have to run a
>lot of power throught he hull?
>
>They didn't have a clamping system, because they had to be mobile and quick.
>
In First Contact, the E-E is magnetic, as they use magnetic boots
which can be 'magnetised' or 'demagnetised'.
There's a 60's Spiderman episode where a mad scientist type makes a
gun that can magnetise anything.
Presumably sufficiently advanced civilisations can reproduce this
technology.
Ahahhaha
Tyralak
news:hmnZc.541329$Gx4.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> Then that would imply that the hull of the ship is magnetic? It does
> not make sense to me that in a universe where traveling from one star
> system to another is possible would be using an iron based alloy for
> its hull, and then to be using one that is magnetic? I guess that the
> only other way would be if they are producing a magnetic on the hull
> using an electrical current, but then I would ask, how is the current
> running through the hull. As you can see in the movie, the hull is
> virtually a single piece, how would you get electrons to flow? And
> even if you did, wouldn't you have to run a lot of power throught he
> hull?
>
> They didn't have a clamping system, because they had to be mobile and
> quick.
Perhaps they used some sort of superconducting material.
The Dude
>I would think the droids would have some sort of magnetic clamping system.
That, and the fact that there's no wind in space. ;)
Duder
Tyralak
SHAKKmaster
I'm pretty sure R2's have temporarily magnetic wheels.
DanielSBen
Probably similar to 'Magnetic boots' seen in Star Trek: First Contact.
R2's wheels probably have one or more electromagnets in them. Or,
maybe he can squirt a sticky substance on his wheels, although this is
less likely.
-DanielSBen
Alex Sutton
> R2's wheels probably have one or more electromagnets in them. Or,
> maybe he can squirt a sticky substance on his wheels, although this is
> less likely.
You are a pervert.
Jedinerd
This is a really crazy theory, but could it be something as simple as
that the ship presented the largest object the droids were close
enough to be affected by that object's gravity, and stayed close to or
on it for that simple reason.
Remember, astronauts doing EVA usually don't float away from the craft
unless they push off of it, and I didn't see any of the droids push
off of it or getp ushed off, except the ones that blasted.
This'd make movement on the hull itself a lot easier then use of
magnetic connections, too. Those don't allow movement very well, but
gravity does, in certain irections.
James Willmott
Jedinerd wrote:
> This is a really crazy theory, but could it be something as simple as
> that the ship presented the largest object the droids were close
> enough to be affected by that object's gravity, and stayed close to or
> on it for that simple reason.
>
> Remember, astronauts doing EVA usually don't float away from the craft
> unless they push off of it, and I didn't see any of the droids push
> off of it or getp ushed off, except the ones that blasted.
Astronauts don't move away from their craft because they both have the
same velocity, not because gravity holds them together. If the craft
suddenly took off the astronaut wouln't be dragged along with it.
> This'd make movement on the hull itself a lot easier then use of
> magnetic connections, too. Those don't allow movement very well, but
> gravity does, in certain irections.
The gravitational pull of the ship would be negligible, certainly not
enough to hold down a droid.
jw.
Jedinerd
Sure on that? That kinda raises a conflict with the entire
demonstration of what happens if you try using an electric screwdriver
in space.....
YouGoFirst
hold the droid to the ship. If you look at the eqation for gravitational
force, you will see that the gravitational constant is very small.
Astornauts don't fly away from the craft for several reasons:
1. They are trained not to push off.
2. The ship is in orbit, and not running away from the Trade federation,
while being shot at.
3. Unless it is a spacewalk, they are tethered to the ship.
4. They hold on to handholds, or are lifted into position by a mechanical
arm attached to the shuttle.
Does anybody have any idea that makes sense as to how R2 and friends can
stay on top of the ship as it is leaving orbit?
"James Willmott" <nos...@nospam.com.au> wrote in message
news:wMxZc.16410$D7....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>
James Willmott
Jedinerd wrote:
>>>This'd make movement on the hull itself a lot easier then use of
>>>magnetic connections, too. Those don't allow movement very well, but
>>>gravity does, in certain irections.
>>
>>The gravitational pull of the ship would be negligible, certainly not
>>enough to hold down a droid.
>>
>>jw.
>
>
>
> Sure on that? That kinda raises a conflict with the entire
> demonstration of what happens if you try using an electric screwdriver
> in space.....
I'm completely sure. But using an electric screwdriver in space? What
about it? Newton's law states the astronaut will spin in the opposite
direction to the spin of the screwdriver, but what does that have to do
with gravity?
jw.
Jedinerd
The reason the astronaut does so, is because the ship has more mass
then he does. The screw, which'd be connected to part of space craft
or satellite's frame, thus makes it so the easier object to turn
around is the astronaut. Thus, he gets rotated, not the screw Because
of it,the screwdriver is a lot more likely to turn him around, then
turn the screw. If however, he's against the hull of the ship, it's
supposed to work a lot better.
Fact of the matter is, an electric screwdriver only works well when in
gravity. That helps cancel out some of the rotational force.
It's a pretty similiar principle with the ship and the R2 unit. As
long as the droid doesn't try to push off of the frame, or get pushed
off by say, a laser cannon hit, it can stay on it, because no force is
being exerted to take it off of the frame of the craft.
Now here's where I see a problem with magnetic grappling: One,
according to the Episode 1 Incredible Cross sections, the exterior of
the Queen's craft is covered with Chrome, which explains why it's so
shiny. There's a problem there: Chrome is a non ferrous metal, meaning
it's not magnetic. While the covering may be thin enough more magnetic
elements underneath it could be taken advantage of, that represents
another problem:
Strong magnets being attracted to ferrous metals would definately
limit mobility. And, the various R2 droids are seen to quite easily
wheel around on the surface of the ship. About as easily as they do on
a planet. If the droid in question was a legged design, preferably a
quadruped one, then magnetic grappling would be the way to go. could
just advance, power up the magnet, advance, ect.
The problem is, as a wheeled design, that would not work to well.
Wheels, unlike legs, stay in near constant motion when going forwards,
backwards, ect. A stop and start way of going wouldn't work for them.
This leads me to conclude one of three possibilities: Either the ship
is somehow generating enough gravity on it's exterior to allow the
droids near normal mobility ( This'dinvolve making an assumption about
the Queen's craft never stated in canon or supplemental evidence, and
thus isn't very likely) The R2 droids are somehow keeping themselves
attached to the hull, probably by means of gravity manipulation. (To
the best of my knowledge, there has NEVER been a statement in the
entire Star Wars Universe, canon or non canonical that droids are made
equipped to generate their own gravity gravity)
Thus I've determined that the third option is most likely, since it's
both the simplest solution I can think of that'd allow for on screen
evidence, and also the most logical.
Namely, that the ship's massive enough to keep the R2 droids from
drifting away from it. This satisifies certain criteria a lot better
then the magnetic grapple theory.
BTW... You ever tried rolling one of the circular magnets you
occasionally find in speakers on a steel table? I've never got one of
those to do that for more then a quarter of a second. It's kinda why I
have a problem with the "magnetic wheels" theory.
Jedinerd
Gopt a theory on that: It's outer space, and since their somehow
connected to the hull well enough to move around on it but not drift
off, so there's not a whole lot to force them off of it, even
backwards as the ship leaps forward.
James Willmott
Jedinerd wrote:
> Namely, that the ship's massive enough to keep the R2 droids from
> drifting away from it. This satisifies certain criteria a lot better
> then the magnetic grapple theory.
Impossible. For the ship to have enough gravity to hold the droids down
it would need to be as massive as the Earth, at least. The people inside
would fall to the centre of gravity.
> BTW... You ever tried rolling one of the circular magnets you
> occasionally find in speakers on a steel table? I've never got one of
> those to do that for more then a quarter of a second. It's kinda why I
> have a problem with the "magnetic wheels" theory.
Maybe the magnet isn't in the wheel itself but mounted in the leg next
to it?
jw.
James Willmott
Jedinerd wrote:
>>>The gravitational pull of the ship would be negligible, certainly not
>>>enough to hold down a droid.
>>>
>>>jw.
>>>
>
>
>
> Gopt a theory on that: It's outer space, and since their somehow
> connected to the hull well enough to move around on it but not drift
> off, so there's not a whole lot to force them off of it, even
> backwards as the ship leaps forward.
Actually, there is something that will force them off the surface of the
ship. It's called inertia. As soon as the ship changes velocity the
droids will go flying off at their original velocity.
Unless something is really sticking them down good!
jw.
Dalton
> This leads me to conclude one of three possibilities: Either the ship
> is somehow generating enough gravity on it's exterior to allow the
> droids near normal mobility ( This'dinvolve making an assumption about
> the Queen's craft never stated in canon or supplemental evidence, and
> thus isn't very likely)
Why? We know that they can generate gravity on the inside and we know
that certain ships (the Millennium Falcon for one) can manipulate those
gravitational fields. It's entirely possible that gravity is the best
explanation.
--
Rob "Uncle Roby" Dalton
http://daltonator.net
"I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the
line is drawn and cross it deliberately." --George Carlin
YouGoFirst
able to stick onto the side of the ship as it is flying in space. I say
this because nobody here seems to have an answer. The best that I have seen
so far is that he is able to generate his own gravity. While that makes
things nice and simple, it ignores the fact that he had a pair of jet
engines in his legs. If you don't remember, he used them to go flying
around in Attack of the Clones.
The only remotely plausible possibility would be to have the gravity field
external to the ship, but that doens't hold up to the movie.
Anybody else smart enough to figure this out.
"Jedinerd" <amb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd040316.0409...@posting.google.com...
Lord Edam de Fromage
benk...@BITEME.hotmail.com says...
> It sounds like somebody needs to write to George Lucas and ask him how R2 is
> able to stick onto the side of the ship as it is flying in space. I say
> this because nobody here seems to have an answer.
You're talking about a people with technology to negate the forces
involved in travelling at highly relatavistic and even superluminal
speeds; can hold atmospheres in with forcefields; can suspend platforms
in mid air as multi-kilotonne ships land on them with no apparent
motion; can generate the appearance earth-typical gravity in an
arbitrary direction outside a ship - why is a handful of mech droids
being able to move along the surface of an accelerating starship such a
difficult thing to believe?
electromagnetics would work if the hull could be magnetised (note that
is electromagnetics - small magnets that are turned on and off to allow
movement, permanent magnets would act differently)
The known abilities of SW gravitic tech would work
Tractor beams would work.
Andrew Murray
what else?
"YouGoFirst" <benk...@BITEME.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gclZc.540914$Gx4.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
YouGoFirst
the ship does not exert a gravity field on the droids because as they are
being shot up, there appears to be no debris "sticking" to the hull, as
would be expected if a gravity field is being produced.
Your idea for running multiple small electromagnets would work, but that
would have to assume many more things. First of all, it would assume that
R2 produces a magnetic field that would attracted by the ship's field, or it
assumes that R2 has enough iron inside of him that he can be held down (I
doubt this because if you want to conserve energy R2 would have to be made
out of lightweight alloys or materials, I doubt that there is much iron in
him.) If it did have electromagnets near the surface of the ship, what
about the need for power to be run to the magnets? To create an
electromagnet you need power. If you assume that R2 weighs about 100 lbs,
you would still need a strong magnet to hold him down because he is not in
direct contact with the ship's hull, but the bulk of his mass is away from
the surface. The strong magnet is required because the magnetic field
weakens with the square of the distance that they are separated.
"Lord Edam de Fromage" <mi...@trek-wars.info> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ba295e32...@news.individual.net...
Dalton
> The only remotely plausible possibility would be to have the gravity field
> external to the ship, but that doens't hold up to the movie.
How so?
> Anybody else smart enough to figure this out.
:-\
Dalton
> Ok Mr. Smarty-pants, explain how R2 and his pals stay on the hull. I know
> the ship does not exert a gravity field on the droids because as they are
> being shot up, there appears to be no debris "sticking" to the hull, as
> would be expected if a gravity field is being produced.
Debris from what? Stuff blown off the ship?
YouGoFirst
"Dalton" <dalto...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2prj8sF...@uni-berlin.de...
Lord Edam de Fromage
benk...@BITEME.hotmail.com says...
> Ok Mr. Smarty-pants, explain how R2 and his pals stay on the hull.
Please see the post you have just responded to.
I know
> the ship does not exert a gravity field on the droids because as they are
> being shot up, there appears to be no debris "sticking" to the hull, as
> would be expected if a gravity field is being produced.
The droids got blown off the hull completely by the shots.
> Your idea for running multiple small electromagnets would work, but that
> would have to assume many more things. First of all, it would assume that
> R2 produces a magnetic field that would attracted by the ship's field,
It would make sense for the droids to be the ones generating the dynamic
field, whilst the ship just has a steady opposite field if this was the
case. The droids know where they need to move to best.
or it
> assumes that R2 has enough iron inside of him that he can be held down (I
> doubt this because if you want to conserve energy R2 would have to be made
> out of lightweight alloys or materials, I doubt that there is much iron in
> him.)
Lightweight magnetic alloys are used in the motor industry. Iron is not
the only magnetic element. And lets not forget the magnetic plastic from
the university of durham that works at room temperature.
> If it did have electromagnets near the surface of the ship, what
> about the need for power to be run to the magnets? To create an
> electromagnet you need power.
ships have power. Droids have power. Power generation is not a major
concern here.
If you assume that R2 weighs about 100 lbs,
> you would still need a strong magnet to hold him down because he is not in
> direct contact with the ship's hull, but the bulk of his mass is away from
> the surface. The strong magnet is required because the magnetic field
> weakens with the square of the distance that they are separated.
you've never strung nails together from a bar magnet as a kid then?
Without gravity you could stack nails from a bar magnet (I have some
success with this, but it tended to collapse after two or three -
gravity beats little magnets)
Despite his appearance, R2 is not particularly top heavy. He is not
prone to toppling over, so holding him down by his wheels as he rolls
over the ship shouldn't that hard.
You've missed some of the stuff I pointed out.
I notice you're using Outlook express. The cursor is placed at the top
of your post because that is the most logical place to start editing
your reply. The proper quote-response style of reply is preferable to
top posting as it ensures your comments are taken in the correct
context.
YouGoFirst
> > you would still need a strong magnet to hold him down because he is not
in
> > direct contact with the ship's hull, but the bulk of his mass is away
from
> > the surface. The strong magnet is required because the magnetic field
> > weakens with the square of the distance that they are separated.
>
> you've never strung nails together from a bar magnet as a kid then?
> Without gravity you could stack nails from a bar magnet (I have some
> success with this, but it tended to collapse after two or three -
> gravity beats little magnets)
>
> Despite his appearance, R2 is not particularly top heavy. He is not
> prone to toppling over, so holding him down by his wheels as he rolls
> over the ship shouldn't that hard.
Ok, lets go off the theory that the ship produces a magnetic field AND R2
produces a magnetic field. Doesn't logic dictate that that the ship
schematics would include some type of reference to a magnetic system under
the skin of the ship, or embedded into the skin? I am aware of the plastic
magnet. For the purposes of creating a functional system, there would have
to be a pair of electro magnets, one in the ship, and another in R2. Since
I don't have the schematics, or time to search them, does somebody have
them, and can they look up to see if there is any mention for ANY ship OR
droid in the Star Wars universe that has an electromagnet system to hold
repair droids to the hull during repairs?
I think that we are beginning to come up with a viable theory. Now we just
need some evidence to follow up.
Jedinerd
I'm not saying it'd have to be putting out near Naboo gravity. I'm
saying just enough to keep it from drifting onto the hull. You don't
hear of stuff just drifting off of asteroids for no reason, now do
you?
As to the question of putting a magnet to either side of the wheel...
Hadn't actually thought of that. It's definately worth trying to check
up on.
C.S.Strowbridge
> Anybody else smart enough to figure this out.
Blu-tak! It has to be Blu-tak.
C.S.Strowbridge
Jedinerd
> Jedinerd wrote:
>
> > This leads me to conclude one of three possibilities: Either the ship
> > is somehow generating enough gravity on it's exterior to allow the
> > droids near normal mobility ( This'dinvolve making an assumption about
> > the Queen's craft never stated in canon or supplemental evidence, and
> > thus isn't very likely)
>
> Why? We know that they can generate gravity on the inside and we know
> that certain ships (the Millennium Falcon for one) can manipulate those
> gravitational fields. It's entirely possible that gravity is the best
> explanation.
Remember the interdiction cruisers we see in various non canon
sources? Those appear to use a seperate system from the ship's own
gravity generation. It may be that most ship's gravitic systems are
designed specifically to allow for the comfort and safety of people
inside of the hull. The Naboo, being a pretty peaceful society, likely
may have not thought of the possibility of a damaged queen's ship
running through a bloackade at high speed while astromechs tried to
repair exterior damage, most of them being knocked off by laser fire.
This'd be an event on the scale of the evacuation of Dunkirk, or the
Shah fleeing to the US. Noone likely would've seen it coming clearly
enough to have already planned for it. The other possibility is that
the gravity emission device on the exterior of the Queen's ship can
reach to the outside or was modified for that, but that again involves
the likelyhood of foresight not likely to appear in Naboo society.
Jedinerd
Except their connected to the ship's surface. Inertia to that extent
would only become a problem if the ship suddenly turned or stopped,
and then, likely only outside of a vaccuum.
Dalton
> Debris from the R2's friends that are being picked off.
You mean being blown rather violently off the ship as it speeds forward?
Dalton
> Dalton <dalto...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2pqdjoF...@uni-berlin.de>...
>
>>Jedinerd wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This leads me to conclude one of three possibilities: Either the ship
>>>is somehow generating enough gravity on it's exterior to allow the
>>>droids near normal mobility ( This'dinvolve making an assumption about
>>>the Queen's craft never stated in canon or supplemental evidence, and
>>>thus isn't very likely)
>>
>>Why? We know that they can generate gravity on the inside and we know
>>that certain ships (the Millennium Falcon for one) can manipulate those
>>gravitational fields. It's entirely possible that gravity is the best
>>explanation.
>
>
> Remember the interdiction cruisers we see in various non canon
> sources? Those appear to use a seperate system from the ship's own
> gravity generation. It may be that most ship's gravitic systems are
> designed specifically to allow for the comfort and safety of people
> inside of the hull. The Naboo, being a pretty peaceful society, likely
> may have not thought of the possibility of a damaged queen's ship
> running through a bloackade at high speed while astromechs tried to
> repair exterior damage, most of them being knocked off by laser fire.
But they had enough foresight to provide external repair droids in case
of in-flight damage...
> This'd be an event on the scale of the evacuation of Dunkirk, or the
> Shah fleeing to the US. Noone likely would've seen it coming clearly
> enough to have already planned for it. The other possibility is that
> the gravity emission device on the exterior of the Queen's ship can
> reach to the outside or was modified for that, but that again involves
> the likelyhood of foresight not likely to appear in Naboo society.
Why do you say that? They had the foresight to form their own
starfighter units for defense, include external repair droids with their
ships and even form a cadre of lookalike handmaidens to take Amidala's
place.
DanielSBen
> > Probably similar to 'Magnetic boots' seen in Star Trek: First Contact.
> > R2's wheels probably have one or more electromagnets in them. Or,
> > maybe he can squirt a sticky substance on his wheels, although this is
> > less likely.
>
> You are a pervert.
WTF?
I was saying that R2D2 might squirt elmer's glue or some other sticky
glues (crazy glue? some of that gunk that the police are developing as
crowd-control?) on his wheels so he won't fly off in space.
What's so perverse about that?
-DanielSBEn
YouGoFirst
> would only become a problem if the ship suddenly turned or stopped,
> and then, likely only outside of a vaccuum.
How are they being held down or connected to the ship's surface? Even if
there are magnets holding R2 down, how do you stop him from sliding around?
His wheels don't look like they would have a high coefficient of friction.
You also run into the problem of if the ship is accelerating it is very easy
to have the ship fly out from under anything on the hull that is not firmly
attached.
YouGoFirst
the ship. I guess that I have done something that would make mike3 so green
with envy that he would make Greedo look white.
Dalton
No, no you haven't. There's sufficient explanation for it, but it's not
our fault that you chose to ignore it and consequently declared victory.
YouGoFirst
or any ship in the SW universe that would account for the way that R2
remains on the ship while it is flying around?
"Dalton" <dalto...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2qna1vF...@uni-berlin.de...
Dalton
> Now that I have your attention, is there anything in the schematics for R2,
> or any ship in the SW universe that would account for the way that R2
> remains on the ship while it is flying around?
Sure, the fact that even the smallest SW ships can easily manipulate
gravity (Millennium Falcon). Easiest and most likely explanation.
Unfortunately, no schematics proving it, but that doesn't necessarily
disprove it.
Aron Kerkhof
There is the "astromech field generator" clearly labeled, next to
their storage bay where Jar Jar first meets R2. How does it work?
Don't know. Electromagnetics or gravitational, take your pick. But
its there.
NEXT!
AK
YouGoFirst
debate over?
"Aron Kerkhof" <n...@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:kh8hk0dnq6cqjia9d...@4ax.com...
Aron Kerkhof
have the appearence of being waxed, yet we do not see any actual
waxing taking place, nor has there ever been waxing machines listed
among the equipment requisitioned to the various death stars. With a
120 (DS1) or 160 (DS2, of course) km diameter, you'd think they'd have
room! In fact, carefully pouring over the death star schematics
reveals not so much as a cleaning closet!
Clearly, such a glaring inconsistancy *must* be resolved!
AK
YouGoFirst
members, you would think that somewhere there would be a "public" restroom?
An explanation for the waxed floors is simple, super alloys of the future
that never need waxing.
"Aron Kerkhof" <n...@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:21fjk017h7s8c78cb...@4ax.com...
Aron Kerkhof
filthy. They might not scuff the super alloys, but they sure as heck
will leave unsightly tracks.
AK
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:47:16 GMT, "YouGoFirst"
Tim Tyler
> Yes! Also, what about toilets on the enterprise? With all of the crew
> members, you would think that somewhere there would be a "public"
restroom?
>
> An explanation for the waxed floors is simple, super alloys of the future
> that never need waxing.
>
far far away). And the death stars must of had maintenence droids that did
the cleaning.
YouGoFirst
"Tim Tyler" <ttyl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:eor2d.4261$bj2.1593@trnddc08...