1984 comparrisons unfair
Deimos Anomaly
in 1984. I believe this is unfair.
For a start, one of the most basic rights, Free Speech, is garanteed in
the Federation. Unlike 1984, where not only free speech, but free
THOUGHT, is prohibited. (The thought police).
In 1984, it is not enough to obey big brother, you have to LOVE him. In
the Federation, you can hate the government as much as you like, but
you won't be locked up as long as you don't actually commit crimes.
(And if they wanted to, they certainly could make wrong thoughts
criminal, since they have access to telepaths which could be used for
enforcement. But the fact is - they don't)
In 1984, huge posters of "Big Brother" appear everywhere as an
indoctrination to the citezens. You don't get huge poster of the
federation president everywhere, however.
Torture is illegal in the Federation. Whether section 31 would use it I
don't know, I hope not, but in 1984 it is blatantly done, by the
ironically named Ministy of Love.
Also, in 1984 there is a "2 minutes hate" every day (or is it every
week - I forget) in which people are enticed and manipulated into
states of utter rage and fury at a demonised figure who is actually
telling the truth. Such would be unheard of in the Federation.
In 1984, opening a diary is punishable by death, for some reason.
Obviouly the Feds don't do that.
There is a telescreen in everybody's home, which cannot be turned off,
and blasts propaganda all of the time. It can also be used by the
thought police to view the inhabitants of the home. The Feds have
nothing like that. (They could, but they don't)
In war (in 1984), captured enemy prisoners are summarily executed
(often publicly), even though they were only sodiers doing their job.
Such a thing would be revolting to the Federation.
A language called newspeak exists to NARROW THE RANGE OF THOUGHT. The
Federation has nothing like that, such a monstrous thing couldn't
happen in it. (Some people will probably say that technobabble is the
Federations newspeak, but it's cause and effect are nothing like that
of newspeak.)
There are many other ways in which the Feds are better than the 1984
society.
--
Inspired, he focused on the teenager's throat, narrowed his eyes in an
attempt to take hold of the power he was used to wielding with ease.
Wesley began to cough uncontrollably, but *alas*, he did not choke.
(From Darth takes a holiday, a fanfic by Jen)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Xtreme Psycho
:Some people (I'm not naming names) have compared the UFP to the society
:in 1984. I believe this is unfair.
:
:For a start, one of the most basic rights, Free Speech, is garanteed in
:the Federation. Unlike 1984, where not only free speech, but free
:THOUGHT, is prohibited. (The thought police).
:
:In 1984, it is not enough to obey big brother, you have to LOVE him. In
:the Federation, you can hate the government as much as you like, but
:you won't be locked up as long as you don't actually commit crimes.
:(And if they wanted to, they certainly could make wrong thoughts
:criminal, since they have access to telepaths which could be used for
:enforcement. But the fact is - they don't)
The Feds can arrest you if you've yet to commit a crime as was shown in a
Voy. ep. The Feds from the 29th century on a time ship arrested their
captain after, during and before he committed a crime. They don't just
prevent you from committing a crime but they also arrest you for the crimes
you've yet to commit.
--
"A lot of people ask me.. am I afraid of death..
Hell yeah I'm afraid of death
I don't want to die yet
A lot of people think.. that I worship the devil..
that I do all types of.. retarded shit
Look, I can't change the way I think
And I can't change the way I am
But if I offended you? Good
Cause I still don't give a fuck"
For all the weed that I've smoked - yo this blunt's for you
To all the people I've offended - yeah fuck you too!
To all the friends I used to have - yo I miss my past
But the rest of you assholes can KISS MY ASS
For all the drugs that I've done - yo I'm still gon' do
To all the people I've offended - yeah fuck you too!
For everytime I reminisce - yo I miss my past
But I still don't give a fuck, y'all can KISS MY ASS
Ashen-Shugar
<sam...@jamieson-03.freeserve.co.uk> :
>Some people (I'm not naming names) have compared the UFP to the society
>in 1984. I believe this is unfair.
>
>For a start, one of the most basic rights, Free Speech, is garanteed in
>the Federation. Unlike 1984, where not only free speech, but free
>THOUGHT, is prohibited. (The thought police).
means nothing if the populace is conditioned from birth.
>
>In 1984, it is not enough to obey big brother, you have to LOVE him. In
>the Federation, you can hate the government as much as you like, but
>you won't be locked up as long as you don't actually commit crimes.
>(And if they wanted to, they certainly could make wrong thoughts
>criminal, since they have access to telepaths which could be used for
>enforcement. But the fact is - they don't)
And I suppose the reason they assign a telepath to each ship as
"counsellor" has got nothing to do with this?
>
>In 1984, huge posters of "Big Brother" appear everywhere as an
>indoctrination to the citezens. You don't get huge poster of the
>federation president everywhere, however.
>
>Torture is illegal in the Federation. Whether section 31 would use it I
>don't know, I hope not, but in 1984 it is blatantly done, by the
>ironically named Ministy of Love.
With societal conditioning from birth and telepaths roaming everywhere
who needs to torture people?
>
>Also, in 1984 there is a "2 minutes hate" every day (or is it every
>week - I forget) in which people are enticed and manipulated into
>states of utter rage and fury at a demonised figure who is actually
>telling the truth. Such would be unheard of in the Federation.
Holodecks?
>
>In 1984, opening a diary is punishable by death, for some reason.
>Obviouly the Feds don't do that.
No they all keep their diaries in one big central computer on the
starship, and believe their innermost secrets are safe from snoopers.
>
>There is a telescreen in everybody's home, which cannot be turned off,
>and blasts propaganda all of the time. It can also be used by the
>thought police to view the inhabitants of the home. The Feds have
>nothing like that. (They could, but they don't)
Telepaths, logs kept in central computers, transporters that keep
records of who goes where, and all shuttles piloted by starfleet
personnel. Sure they don't keep track of people.
>
>In war (in 1984), captured enemy prisoners are summarily executed
>(often publicly), even though they were only sodiers doing their job.
>Such a thing would be revolting to the Federation.
New Zealand? Some passive mental 'suggestions', nothing violent of
course.
>
>A language called newspeak exists to NARROW THE RANGE OF THOUGHT. The
>Federation has nothing like that, such a monstrous thing couldn't
>happen in it. (Some people will probably say that technobabble is the
>Federations newspeak, but it's cause and effect are nothing like that
>of newspeak.)
I notice a particular lack of offensive terminology in the 'english'
spoken by starfleet personnel. How do you know the language hasn't
been 'adjusted' over the centuries. Same goes for the music and for
other art forms. There seems to be a definite bias towards
'acceptable' art.
>
>There are many other ways in which the Feds are better than the 1984
>society.
Of course. They are better at pacifying their citizens because they
don't have to use overtly brutal methods. It is much easier to revolt
against overt oppression than it is if the oppression is subliminal
and there is food on the table and a roof over your head.
------------------
Ashen-Shugar
------------------
Last of the Dragon Lords,
Greatest of the Valheru.
Eframepilot
>Deimos Anomaly wrote in message <86s4pa$3cu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>:in 1984. I believe this is unfair.
>:
>:For a start, one of the most basic rights, Free Speech, is garanteed in
>:the Federation. Unlike 1984, where not only free speech, but free
>:THOUGHT, is prohibited. (The thought police).
>:In 1984, it is not enough to obey big brother, you have to LOVE him. In
>:the Federation, you can hate the government as much as you like, but
>:you won't be locked up as long as you don't actually commit crimes.
>:(And if they wanted to, they certainly could make wrong thoughts
>:criminal, since they have access to telepaths which could be used for
>:enforcement. But the fact is - they don't)
>The Feds can arrest you if you've yet to commit a crime as was shown in a
>Voy. ep. The Feds from the 29th century on a time ship arrested their
>captain after, during and before he committed a crime. They don't just
>prevent you from committing a crime but they also arrest you for the crimes
>you've yet to commit.
>
just hadn't yet. When he was re-integrated, he was 2/3 guilty. Moral: Don't
judge something you can't possibly understand.
Xtreme Psycho
:>The Feds can arrest you if you've yet to commit a crime as was shown in a
:>Voy. ep. The Feds from the 29th century on a time ship arrested their
:>captain after, during and before he committed a crime. They don't just
:>prevent you from committing a crime but they also arrest you for the
crimes
:>you've yet to commit.
:>
:That's the 29th century. Besides, Braxton had already committed the crime,
he
:just hadn't yet. When he was re-integrated, he was 2/3 guilty. Moral: Don't
:judge something you can't possibly understand.
Yeah but the Feds still have the Temporal Prime Directive the basis for any
future temporal events. We know that the Feds WILL arrest anyone they know
that one day would commit a crime.
Chuck
Ashen-Shugar <xr...@nospam.iafrica.com> wrote in message
news:3891eb07...@news.iafrica.com...
> >There is a telescreen in everybody's home, which cannot be turned off,
> >and blasts propaganda all of the time. It can also be used by the
> >thought police to view the inhabitants of the home. The Feds have
> >nothing like that. (They could, but they don't)
> Telepaths, logs kept in central computers, transporters that keep
> records of who goes where, and all shuttles piloted by starfleet
> personnel. Sure they don't keep track of people.
In Voyager: Drone, we see that viewscreens are even in the shower, where
anyone can access and see what's going on.
--
Chuck
"A million monkeys at a million typewriters given enough
time will eventually reproduce all my works. And then I'll
win millions for copyright infringement." - Shakespeare
Commander Thelea
<CS...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Ashen-Shugar <xr...@nospam.iafrica.com> wrote in message
> news:3891eb07...@news.iafrica.com...
> > >There is a telescreen in everybody's home, which cannot be
> turned off,
> > >and blasts propaganda all of the time. It can also be used by
> the
> > >thought police to view the inhabitants of the home. The Feds
> have
> > >nothing like that. (They could, but they don't)
> > Telepaths, logs kept in central computers, transporters that keep
> > records of who goes where, and all shuttles piloted by starfleet
> > personnel. Sure they don't keep track of people.
> In Voyager: Drone, we see that viewscreens are even in the shower,
> where
> anyone can access and see what's going on.
Unless that was a joke, Chuck, I believe it proves my point.
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Ashen-Shugar
<Lusankya...@Aol.com.invalid> :
>In article <86tcst$2mk4$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, "Chuck"
><CS...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> Ashen-Shugar <xr...@nospam.iafrica.com> wrote in message
>> news:3891eb07...@news.iafrica.com...
>> > >There is a telescreen in everybody's home, which cannot be
>> turned off,
>> > >and blasts propaganda all of the time. It can also be used by
>> the
>> > >thought police to view the inhabitants of the home. The Feds
>> have
>> > >nothing like that. (They could, but they don't)
>> > Telepaths, logs kept in central computers, transporters that keep
>> > records of who goes where, and all shuttles piloted by starfleet
>> > personnel. Sure they don't keep track of people.
>> In Voyager: Drone, we see that viewscreens are even in the shower,
>> where
>> anyone can access and see what's going on.
>
> Unless that was a joke, Chuck, I believe it proves my point.
>
Not to mention that everybody carries a communicator which is
permanently hooked into the central computer, and in ST Fiction the
communicators later become a brain implant done at birth. How is that
for tracking individuals and listening in to them, possibly even their
thoughts.
Rob Dalton
How about an episode of Voyager where the Universal Translators go down?
That'd be a scream.
--
Dalton
AIM: RobPDalton
ICQ: 50342303
A conclusion is the place where you get tired of thinking. (Arthur
Bloch)
Chuck
Commander Thelea <Lusankya...@Aol.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:06284168...@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com...
> > In Voyager: Drone, we see that viewscreens are even in the shower,
> > where
> > anyone can access and see what's going on.
>
> Unless that was a joke, Chuck, I believe it proves my point.
It's not a joke. Yes ladies and gentlemen, the Federation is filled with
peeping toms.
--
We don't serve their kind here.
We do not serve them here or there,
We do not serve them anywhere.
We do not like gold droids like tham.
We do not like them, Obi-wam.