Could the Enterprise blow-up the DeathStar???
Weyoun the Dancing Borg
> Enterprise would be able to withstand attacks from the Death Star for a
> while.
a couple of heavy laser shots and the enterprise -e is dead. if it is hit by
the planet buster ray, it's dead
Starfleet ships have more sensors, scanners, computers, and ever
> special people such as Spock, Data, Bashir, etc.)
why do they have more sensors and scanners and computers?
not every ships has a spock or data or bashir
So Starfleet is able to
> know that the Death Star have a super powerful laser
it's not a laser
capable of destroying a
> planet, and they are ever able to see that the Death Star is about to fire
> in order to dodge the beam.
you can't dodge somethign that's moving at the speed of light.
<snip crap story>
>
> The Enterprise in offensive mode is a little tricky. The Death Star must
be
> as big as more than a dozen of Borg Cubes,
a few thousand borg cubes...
so the Enterprise would have a
> hard time attacking the Death Star on her own. However the Rebel Alliance
> had send in a squadron of Y-Wing and X-Wing fighters to fire a torpedo
into
> the thermal exhaust port in order to destroy the Death Star, so if the
> Enterprise use the same idea, all she had to do was to fire a homing
torpedo
> into the exhaust port from high orbit.
Luke's torpeo compelted a 72000+ G turn. When have we seen a Star Trek
torpedo do that?
It is quite possible however for the
> Enterprise to just beam a torpedo into the main reactors and boom!
shields...
>
> I think yes, the Enterprise can take out the Death Star as well as the
Death
> Star take out the Enterprise, either way just with a bit of effort.
There is no way in hell that the enterprise (e) could destroy the Death Star
Crayz9000
<wey...@ntlworld.com.despam> found
<sAAS7.66$pU3....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com> on Sat, 15 Dec 2001
04:47:00 -0000...
>> The Enterprise in offensive mode is a little tricky. The Death Star must
>be
>> as big as more than a dozen of Borg Cubes,
>
>a few thousand borg cubes...
And to think that when I was a newbie that I had the impression that every
Cube was as large as a Death Star.
--
Crayz9000 - - - - - - - - mhm28x12
UT: {AGUT}Freak'o'Nature
http://asvsaa.8m.net/index2.html (ASVS Auxiliary Archive)
Starfleet Fan
the planet buster ray, it's dead”
How do you know that Star Wars’ lasers are the same stuff as Star Trek’s
lasers? I thought by Star Trek’s standards a phaser is more powerful than a
laser so if the Enterprise can withstand a few shots from a Borg phaser then
it should be able to withstand one or two hits from Death Star’s laser?
“why do they have more sensors and scanners and computers? not every ships
has a spock or data or bashir”
You must know that well. Every Starfleet starships have an assortment of
sensors built in. Sub-space sensors, EM sensors, infer-red sensors, back up
sensors, various sensors for different type of jobs, and there usually is at
least one crew member who could be a Vulcan or a Betazoid or whatever.
“it's not a laser”
Okay, but according to some books on Star Wars which I have, it is laser.
“you can't dodge somethign that's moving at the speed of light.”
You can’t dodge a laser beam when it had been fired, but you can dodge a
laser beam long before it had been fired. I am talking about “line of fire”.
The Death Star’s weapons officer press the firing button and the Enterprise’
s sensors would spot the build up changes of the weapon’s energy and the
Enterprise would move out of the line of fire before the actual firing.
After that, any ships still in line of fire…boom!
“<snip crap story>”
Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of agreeing
and disagreeing with each other’s theory, not to call someone else’s theory
as crap?
“a few thousand borg cubes...”
Very well then, let’s agree on the Death Star equals about a few thousand
Borg Cubes.
“Luke's torpeo compelted a 72000+ G turn. When have we seen a Star Trek
torpedo do that?”
Luke’s flight path was close to the surface of the Death Star so when he
fired his torpedo, it had to do a 90 degree turn to get into the port. The
Enterprise just stay far away from the Death Star, and fire a torpedo right
towards the port. Either would take out the Death Star.
“shields...”
Death Star II from “Return of the Jedi” had shields. I am taking about the
first Death Star which as far as I know, did not have any. How do you know
that Star Wars shields are made of the same stuff as Star Trek shields?
“There is no way in hell that the enterprise (e) could destroy the Death
Star”
If a single X-Wing could take out the Death Star then why can’t the
Enterprise do the same thing?
I like both Star Trek and Star Wars. I am not trying to say the Enterprise
is better than Death Star or things like that.
Paradox
>How do you know
> that Star Wars shields are made of the same stuff as Star Trek shields?
>
Well gee how do we know that the ST universe doesn't exists in the nucleus
of an atom that's part of a molecule that makes up a flea that Chewbacca is
scratching on his ass?
Stuart Mackey
"Starfleet Fan" <starfl...@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:9vgthr$cfr$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
> "a couple of heavy laser shots and the enterprise-e is dead. if it is hit
by
> the planet buster ray, it's dead"
> How do you know that Star Wars' lasers are the same stuff as Star Trek's
> lasers? I thought by Star Trek's standards a phaser is more powerful than
a
> laser so if the Enterprise can withstand a few shots from a Borg phaser
then
> it should be able to withstand one or two hits from Death Star's laser?
Oh dear.
Hello and welcome to ASVS. {alt.startrek.vs.starwars}. This is where people
can debate who would beat who in a millitary conflict between the two.
If you plan to stay I strongly suggest you read the following.
http://www.sfdebris.com/faq.html
and
www.asvs.org
Thank you and enjoy your stay.
Dalton should be along to repeat this soon enough
Eleas
> “a couple of heavy laser shots and the enterprise-e is dead. if it is
> hit by the planet buster ray, it's dead”
> How do you know that Star Wars’ lasers are the same stuff as Star
> Trek’s lasers? I thought by Star Trek’s standards a phaser is more
> powerful than a laser so if the Enterprise can withstand a few shots
> from a Borg phaser then it should be able to withstand one or two hits
> from Death Star’s laser?
Gee, I don't even have to contribute to anything here. It's already been
said after all:
"It was this statement which indicated his utter lack of intelligence.
Anyone who thinks that a starship could survive a superlaser direct hit is
an idiot."
--Michael Wong
To clarify, three points.
1. We know that SW "lasers" are NOT true lasers by the very definition of
the word laser.
2. The Borg don't use phasers, they use an unknown type of beam with some of
the characteristics of a laser.
3. The rest of the statement doesn't make even the tiniest bit of sense.
You're basically saying that the *type* of the weapon is all that determines
its power. That's like saying a lady's Derringer and a Desert Eagle have the
same power, because they're both handguns. In other words, moronic.
> “why do they have more sensors and scanners and computers? not every
> ships has a spock or data or bashir”
> You must know that well. Every Starfleet starships have an assortment
> of sensors built in. Sub-space sensors, EM sensors, infer-red sensors,
> back up sensors, various sensors for different type of jobs, and there
> usually is at least one crew member who could be a Vulcan or a Betazoid
> or whatever.
Really? Then prove that these sensors are superior to Star Wars sensors, and
while you're at it, explain what good these Vulcans or Betazoids will do.
> “it's not a laser”
> Okay, but according to some books on Star Wars which I have, it is
> laser.
It's just a name. There are numerous examples of names having their meaning
changed and expanded. The important thing is that it is not a beam of
coherent light.
> “you can't dodge somethign that's moving at the speed of light.”
> You can’t dodge a laser beam when it had been fired, but you can dodge
> a laser beam long before it had been fired. I am talking about “line of
> fire”. The Death Star’s weapons officer press the firing button and the
> Enterprise’ s sensors would spot the build up changes of the weapon’s
> energy and the Enterprise would move out of the line of fire before the
> actual firing. After that, any ships still in line of fire…boom!
True. That is, of course, because the DS was designed to attack *planets*,
not starships. The second DS could fire off - axis, and its beam had a
fairly good propagation time. I bet even money that it could hit larger
Federation ships, assuming anyone was stupid enough to expend the Superlaser
on such trivialities.
> “<snip crap story>”
> Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of
> agreeing and disagreeing with each other’s theory, not to call someone
> else’s theory as crap?
Oh that's Kaz. He's... zealous. :)
> “a few thousand borg cubes...”
> Very well then, let’s agree on the Death Star equals about a few
> thousand Borg Cubes.
Depends on which DS. The DS1, with a diameter of 160 km, has an equivalent
volume of about 80,000 Borg Cubes. The second one, with a diameter of 900
km, or 14 million Borg Cubes.
(All of this is assuming the standard 27 km^3 cubes)
> “Luke's torpeo compelted a 72000+ G turn. When have we seen a Star Trek
> torpedo do that?”
> Luke’s flight path was close to the surface of the Death Star so when
> he fired his torpedo, it had to do a 90 degree turn to get into the
> port. The Enterprise just stay far away from the Death Star, and fire a
> torpedo right towards the port. Either would take out the Death Star.
Really? Well, sadly there are a few problems with that.
1. "The target area is only two meters wide". How are you going to avoid
smacking the ~1 m wide torpedo into the side of the shaft, in the face of
jamming heavy enough to distort the fabric of space-time?
2. The magnetic field that protected the DS repelled an unholy amount of
energy in the form of the Alderaan debris. It would do the same to any
Starfleet ship.
3. The rebels knew of this weakness from careful study of the Death Star
construction plans. Who gave the Federation these plans?
4. Disregarding the Superlaser, some five hundred thousand Turbolaser Towers
(at the very least) would be firing at the enemy at the same time.
5. The second Death Star had no exhaust port. Completed, it had no known
achilles heel at all.
> “shields...”
> Death Star II from “Return of the Jedi” had shields. I am taking about
> the first Death Star which as far as I know, did not have any.
Oh. That's cool, it just means that its armor belt can take 12,000 billion
gigatons of kinetic energy without wincing. And, of course, that would
require us to forget the magnetic field mentioned in the movie.
> How do
> you know that Star Wars shields are made of the same stuff as Star Trek
> shields?
We don't. In many cases, they seem distinctly superior.
> “There is no way in hell that the enterprise (e) could destroy the
> Death Star”
> If a single X-Wing could take out the Death Star then why can’t the
> Enterprise do the same thing?
That's not a very good argument. You presuppose that the Enterprise has the
(top secret) information the Rebels have. Also, the Death Star assault
worked because the X-Wings small enough to evade the DS' defenses, which
were built to repel a large scale assault.
[snip]
--
Björn
Kazuaki Shimazaki
>
> “a couple of heavy laser shots and the enterprise-e is dead. if it is hit by
> the planet buster ray, it's dead”
> How do you know that Star Wars’ lasers are the same stuff as Star Trek’s
> lasers? I thought by Star Trek’s standards a phaser is more powerful than a
In fact, they aren't the same thing at all. What they call "lasers" in
Star Wars is generally considered to be some kind of plasma, and a
really exotic theory also exists. I ref you to Robert Brown's site,
here...the theories are right under lightsabres, but some of them can be
applied to lasers, blasters and so on in SW as well - you'll soon find
out which.
> laser so if the Enterprise can withstand a few shots from a Borg phaser then
> it should be able to withstand one or two hits from Death Star’s laser?
Oh, stuff done with no math. In this NG, SCIENCE rules the day, and
POWER is what matters, not the weapon's _name_. For instance The Borg
weapons never destroyed like Alderaan no matter what they're called. The
Death Star's weapon DOES. Therefore, the Death Star's weapon is much,
much more powerful. Maybe the FEDERATION can't make a "laser" which
isn't a laser at all stronger than a phaser, but that doesn't stop
everyone else from doing so.
That's the basic idea. You can go to http://www.stardestroyer.net for
_more_ comparisons of Star Trek versus Star Wars firepower and shields.
Some people disagree with them (or we wouldn't have a debate), but
that's the very basic idea of how they stand. To know the details, you
need to listen to us for at least half a year thrashing it over, then
you'll really know the details.
> “why do they have more sensors and scanners and computers? not every ships
> has a spock or data or bashir”
> You must know that well. Every Starfleet starships have an assortment of
> sensors built in. Sub-space sensors, EM sensors, infer-red sensors, back up
> sensors, various sensors for different type of jobs, and there usually is at
> least one crew member who could be a Vulcan or a Betazoid or whatever.
All of which can't pick up a ship hiding in a planet's magnetic pole
(TNG: "Peak Performance", IIRC). That pretty much says it all.
> “it's not a laser”
> Okay, but according to some books on Star Wars which I have, it is laser.
Canon overrides official. Movies are canon. They don't look like lasers.
Therefore, they override any moronic official, the same morons that
think an Executor is 8km long when anyone with the film can tell it is
more like 16 or 17, that dares say they're true lasers.
> “you can't dodge somethign that's moving at the speed of light.”
> You can’t dodge a laser beam when it had been fired, but you can dodge a
> laser beam long before it had been fired. I am talking about “line of fire”.
> The Death Star’s weapons officer press the firing button and the Enterprise’
> s sensors would spot the build up changes of the weapon’s energy and the
> Enterprise would move out of the line of fire before the actual firing.
> After that, any ships still in line of fire…boom!
Even if you can move out of line of that superlaser, there are still a
LOT of heavy turbolaser batteries ready and waiting to take you out, no
matter where you move.
> “<snip crap story>”
> Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of agreeing
> and disagreeing with each other’s theory, not to call someone else’s theory
> as crap?
Yes, it is for discussion, _but_ if your idea is absolutely moronic and
had been destroyed about 1 million times, people _will_ get testy when
you bring it up. That's why reading the R&R is so important.
> “a few thousand borg cubes...”
> Very well then, let’s agree on the Death Star equals about a few thousand
> Borg Cubes.
That should have been _obvious_ had you had a brain that can do basic
math. To be fair, you are not the only moron that said the Death Star is
of anywhere near comparable size to a Borg cube, which doesn't spare
you, or anyone else.
> “Luke's torpeo compelted a 72000+ G turn. When have we seen a Star Trek
> torpedo do that?”
> Luke’s flight path was close to the surface of the Death Star so when he
> fired his torpedo, it had to do a 90 degree turn to get into the port. The
> Enterprise just stay far away from the Death Star, and fire a torpedo right
> towards the port. Either would take out the Death Star.
If a top-down "dive-bombing" attack pattern worked, no one would have to
fly in that silly trench where no one can manuever at all. The targeting
parameter there is very precise. Staying high up would also mean
increased turbolaser fire, which would spear you through at a rapid pace
(see the site above and work out the odds of the SCS surviving even one
good hit from a heavy turbolaser).
The place is under extremely heavy jamming, which makes most long-range
targeting useless, as stated in the novelization, which is accepted as
long as the film doesn't contradict it, which it doesn't. Therefore, you
would most likely never get a torpedo lock, definitely not before the
surface batteries blow you off the chart.
> “shields...”
> Death Star II from “Return of the Jedi” had shields. I am taking about the
> first Death Star which as far as I know, did not have any. How do you know
> that Star Wars shields are made of the same stuff as Star Trek shields?
DID YOU HEAR THE FUCKING BRIEF DODONNA GAVE! HE SPECIFICIALLY MENTIONED
THEY HAVE TO USE PROTON TORPEDOES BECAUSE THE PORT IS RAY-SHIELDED!
That aside, the simple act of surviving the consequences of blowing up
the planet requires IMMENSE levels of particle shielding in other areas
to withstand all the matter and rocks flying away from the detonation
point (and at the Death Star). Read the Death Star section under
http://www.theforce.net/swtc for MATHEMATICAL estimates of how much KE
damage the Death Star's shields took.
And in fact, if we know something, it is that SW shields aren't very
similar to ST shields. They don't have "frequencies" for instance.
> “There is no way in hell that the enterprise (e) could destroy the Death
> Star”
> If a single X-Wing could take out the Death Star then why can’t the
> Enterprise do the same thing?
That is very faulty logic. Luke Skywalker, with his dormant but
beginning to awake Force abilities, and they aid of something like 30
fighters of which about 27 or 28 of them died and a _lot_ of luck,
managed to exploit one little weakness in the entire mess. The
Enterprise is not likely to know of this weakness, or be able to exploit
it before it got blown up.
> I like both Star Trek and Star Wars. I am not trying to say the Enterprise
> is better than Death Star or things like that.
Yet you're talking in a totally unscientific and subjective manner.
Maybe some other places would take your tripe, but not ASVS.
Kazuaki Shimazaki
<snip>
> > “<snip crap story>”
> > Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of
> > agreeing and disagreeing with each other’s theory, not to call someone
> > else’s theory as crap?
>
> Oh that's Kaz. He's... zealous. :)
It isn't me. It was Weyoun. I guess this guy is such a moron even Weyoun
can't help but be harsh to him :)
In any case, this guy's arguments are sickeningly moronic. It is
incredible a person with such poor mental capabilities can survive as a
human being.
Could he be TOWNMNBS in disguise?
Dalton
Sorry, crossposts don't count.
--
Rob "Roby" Dalton
http://daltonator.net
"I need a drink."
"You don't drink."
"Yeah, but I've been meaning to start."
---UHF
Eleas
news:3C1C0A...@netvigator.com:
> Eleas wrote:
> <snip>
>> > “<snip crap story>”
>> > Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of
>> > agreeing and disagreeing with each other’s theory, not to call someone
>> > else’s theory as crap?
>>
>> Oh that's Kaz. He's... zealous. :)
>
> It isn't me. It was Weyoun. I guess this guy is such a moron even Weyoun
> can't help but be harsh to him :)
Who? Must have been a glitch.
> In any case, this guy's arguments are sickeningly moronic. It is
> incredible a person with such poor mental capabilities can survive as a
> human being.
>
> Could he be TOWNMNBS in disguise?
Nah. I don't think it counts when they're crossposted. In the future I won't
bother replying to people led here by mistake - it's not really fair, they
don't know better.
--
Björn
Stuart Mackey
"Dalton" <r...@daltonator.net> wrote in message
news:3C1C0CBB...@daltonator.net...
Damn, and there was me thinking I was upstageing you.
Or is this just a clever doge cause I got there first, hmmm? :)
Sir Nitram
Safety your weapons and place them on the deck. This is just a crossposter.
Were this a real idiot, we would kill him.
------------------------------------
SirNitram
ASVS Small Gods Keeper and Amateur Genius
"We can reconstitute dead friends and lovers. Those who were us, can be yours
again. We will make you Gods amongst your people!"
-Last words of the Beast.
Stuart Mackey
"Sir Nitram" <nitramt...@aol.comAntiSpam> wrote in message
news:20011215221033...@mb-ba.aol.com...
Well thats why I was nice .
Dalton
Could be...
Kynes
<starfl...@talk21.com> wrote:
>Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of agreeing
>and disagreeing with each other’s theory, not to call someone else’s theory
>as crap?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Oh, sound the Disillusionment Klaxon, fellas. I think we've got a Five-Alarm
Newbie.
--
-LK!
[ ky...@choam.org ] [ ICQ: 795238 ] [ AIM: Kynes23 ]
"Calling it a chasm between idiotic fanboys that spend 10 hours creating a
.jpg of a Starfury to masterbate to and those that enjoy laughing at them
would be more appropriate."
- Wayne Poe
Paradox
"Kynes" <ky...@choam.org> wrote in message
news:nBocPEGMvSqwzR...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:31:40 +0000 (UTC), "Starfleet Fan"
> <starfl...@talk21.com> wrote:
>
> >Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of agreeing
> >and disagreeing with each other's theory, not to call someone else's
theory
> >as crap?
>
> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
>
> Oh, sound the Disillusionment Klaxon, fellas. I think we've got a
Five-Alarm
> Newbie.
disillusionment? is that a word? oh well.....
*hits big red button*
Stuart Mackey
"Paradox" <l33ta0...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:10084754...@globe.atl2.mindspring.net...
::And gets hit in the face by the boxing glove fom a trap door in the wall::
No, you are supposed to hit the button marked 'Newbie'
Dalton
Means "bursting the bubble," so to speak. Shattering fantasy. Read a
dictionary :)
Crayz9000
<9vh81b$es0j9$1...@ID-75806.news.dfncis.de> on Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:33:59
+1300...
[Drags out a Golan Arms FC-1, just in case]
Insane Ranter
Paradox wrote in message <10084674...@globe.atl2.mindspring.net>...
Well... how would it be that Chewie isn't in the ST Universe in this
situation... you've created a pardox.... Chewie is in the ST universe
yet.... he's not..
Keh Br Gapho
let's assume we exists to in the same universe. first whay did the Federation
switch to phasers from lasers. well apparently the first reason the hall was
made out of a material lasers have absolutely no effect on despite the amount
power. second shields are the same way.
so lasers have no effect despite power or frequency. ok now that that argument
is settled what next.
Dalton
What are you, some sort of schmuck? Read the God-damn FAQ!
http://www.asvs.org
http://www.sfdebris.com/faq.html
Sir Nitram
>>
>> well this is a old argument,
>>
>> let's assume we exists to in the same universe. first whay did the
>Federation
>> switch to phasers from lasers. well apparently the first reason the hall
>was
>> made out of a material lasers have absolutely no effect on despite the
>amount
>> power. second shields are the same way.
>> so lasers have no effect despite power or frequency. ok now that that
>argument
>> is settled what next.
>
>What are you, some sort of schmuck? Read the God-damn FAQ!
>
>http://www.asvs.org
>http://www.sfdebris.com/faq.html
>
Can I kill him now or wait til you get home?
Iceberg
>>Keh Br Gapho wrote:
>>>
>>> well this is a old argument,
>>>
>>> let's assume we exists to in the same universe. first whay did the
>>Federation
>>> switch to phasers from lasers. well apparently the first reason the hall
>>was
>>> made out of a material lasers have absolutely no effect on despite the
>>amount
>>> power. second shields are the same way.
>>> so lasers have no effect despite power or frequency. ok now that that
>>argument
>>> is settled what next.
>>
>>What are you, some sort of schmuck? Read the God-damn FAQ!
>>
>>http://www.asvs.org
>>http://www.sfdebris.com/faq.html
>>
>
>Can I kill him now or wait til you get home?
"Shoot him now, shoot him now!"
"You keep out of this, he doesn't have to shoot you now."
-- Mark
"Today's tears are the way to joy, Failure leads to success
I know it will always be this way. Don't wanna say 'Give Up!'"
- Priss and the Replicants, "Chase the Dream"
Bubblegum Crisis 8: Scoop Chase
Durandal
Haha! So, if I say "Rocks don't have the necessary kinetic energy to
kill me!", I'm immune to rocks, regardless of mass and velocity?
Incredible! We should inform Wile E. Coyote.
--
Damien Sorresso
[AIM: durandal64] | [ICQ: 12183859]
Nobody knows everything.
I am nobody.
I know everything.
Dalton
>
> >Keh Br Gapho wrote:
> >>
> >> well this is a old argument,
> >>
> >> let's assume we exists to in the same universe. first whay did the
> >Federation
> >> switch to phasers from lasers. well apparently the first reason the hall
> >was
> >> made out of a material lasers have absolutely no effect on despite the
> >amount
> >> power. second shields are the same way.
> >> so lasers have no effect despite power or frequency. ok now that that
> >argument
> >> is settled what next.
> >
> >What are you, some sort of schmuck? Read the God-damn FAQ!
> >
> >http://www.asvs.org
> >http://www.sfdebris.com/faq.html
> >
>
> Can I kill him now or wait til you get home?
Your call.
Matthew Hyde
Weyoun, of all people, quotes the 72000-g torpedo turn bit. Weird.
Durandal
Matthew Hyde wrote:
>
> GOD, this is an omen. I NEVER thought I would have seen the day when
> Weyoun, of all people, quotes the 72000-g torpedo turn bit. Weird.
Or defends the Death Star.
Durandal
Starfleet Fan wrote:
> How do you know that Star Wars’ lasers are the same stuff as Star Trek’s
> lasers? I thought by Star Trek’s standards a phaser is more powerful than a
> laser so if the Enterprise can withstand a few shots from a Borg phaser then
> it should be able to withstand one or two hits from Death Star’s laser?
Because we treat the Star Wars movies/books/whatever as precise
translations from Basic (the standard Star Wars language) to ours. When
they say laser, they mean laser, as we define it.
Even so, the weapon is obviously not a laser, and you'd have to be
completely inept to think it was. It travels at sublight speeds in a
vacuum, so it's not a laser.
No one cares about Star Trek standards. Are you going to tell me that
police officers are impervious to all gunfire because their vests are
"bullet-proof"? What if the officer with the bullet-proof vest gets hit
with a heavy gun from a tank? I guess in the world of masturbatory Trek
fantasies, he lives.
> You must know that well. Every Starfleet starships have an assortment of
> sensors built in. Sub-space sensors, EM sensors, infer-red sensors, back up
> sensors, various sensors for different type of jobs, and there usually is at
> least one crew member who could be a Vulcan or a Betazoid or whatever.
Wow, that's a lot of techno jargon you've got there. Do you have any
idea what any of it means? Modern battlecruisers TODAY have EM (it's
called RADAR) and infra-red sensors. Hell, that asshole cop on the
highway has an EM sensor. Star Wars has had subspace sensors since the
time of Xim the Despot 25,000 years before A New Hope. Not to mention
they have real-time, intragalactic communication. Their sensors are
ridiculously superior to Trek's.
Face it, the Star Wars civilization has been space-faring for over
25,000 years. The Federation has been at it for a few hundred.
> Okay, but according to some books on Star Wars which I have, it is laser.
No, according to the books you have, it is called a "superlaser." The
name "laser" is obviously a holdover from older technology, just like
"cannon." Are we to assume that, since Starfleet calls it a "phaser
cannon" that it fires balls of lead, even though direct observation
contradicts that? According to anyone with even a shred of scientific
education, it is not a laser.
> You can’t dodge a laser beam when it had been fired, but you can dodge a
> laser beam long before it had been fired. I am talking about “line of fire”.
> The Death Star’s weapons officer press the firing button and the Enterprise’
> s sensors would spot the build up changes of the weapon’s energy and the
> Enterprise would move out of the line of fire before the actual firing.
> After that, any ships still in line of fire…boom!
Given the sluggish speeds of the average Starfleet vessel (except the
Defiant), I don't think the Death Star would have a problem. The Second
Death Star showed that the superlaser could be fired in an off-axis
manner, depending on where the beam concentration was.
Aside from that, the hundreds or thousands of heavy turbolasers on the
surface would utterly decimate the Enterprise-E.
> Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of agreeing
> and disagreeing with each other’s theory, not to call someone else’s theory
> as crap?
No, the inhabitants of this newsgroup are sad, pathetic whelps who have
sacrificed a good deal of their lives to this newsgroup. We take this
topic entirely too seriously, and we will roast you beyond recognition,
because what you're posting right now is typical, newbie Trekkie
masturbatory crap, and we've heard it all before. We don't like putting
up with it. We're going to either scare you off, or set you straight the
hard way.
> Very well then, let’s agree on the Death Star equals about a few thousand
> Borg Cubes.
Easily.
> Luke’s flight path was close to the surface of the Death Star so when he
> fired his torpedo, it had to do a 90 degree turn to get into the port. The
> Enterprise just stay far away from the Death Star, and fire a torpedo right
> towards the port. Either would take out the Death Star.
The reason fighters were used to assault the DSI was because the
defenses were designed to fend off capital ships. Using a capital ship,
like the Enterprise-E, to do the same thing as a fighter is a moot
point, because there's no way it would happen. The thousands of surface
batteries would annihilate the Enterprise-E.
Aside from that, how does the Federation know about the exhaust port?
> Death Star II from “Return of the Jedi” had shields. I am taking about the
> first Death Star which as far as I know, did not have any. How do you know
> that Star Wars shields are made of the same stuff as Star Trek shields?
The first one must have had shields to fend off the debris from the
Alderaan explosion. Either that, or its armor can withstand ungodly
amount of kinetic energy impacts. Either way, the Enterprise couldn't do
jack-squat to the Death Star.
As for Star Trek and Star Wars shields, they're obviously different, but
we treat them as if they have the same effects. The difference is
energy-handling limits, of which Star Wars clearly has the upper hand.
> If a single X-Wing could take out the Death Star then why can’t the
> Enterprise do the same thing?
Simple. Because the Enterprise-E was exactly what the Death Star was
designed to fend off. It'd be utterly pummeled by the thousands of heavy
surface batteries on the Death Star. Didn't you watch Dodonna's
briefing? "The defenses are designed around a large scale assault. A
small, one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outter defenses."
Aside from that, photon torpedoes are extremely slow and unmaneuverable
things. The torpedo would be shot down before it could ever reach the
surface.
> I like both Star Trek and Star Wars. I am not trying to say the Enterprise
> is better than Death Star or things like that.
No one cares about this half-assed disclaimer. Don't bother with such
things in the future, if you intend to stay.
Enigma
"Durandal" <duran...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:3C1E15F9...@mac.com...
>
>
> Matthew Hyde wrote:
> >
> > GOD, this is an omen. I NEVER thought I would have seen the day when
> > Weyoun, of all people, quotes the 72000-g torpedo turn bit. Weird.
>
> Or defends the Death Star.
> --
Matthew Hyde
Weyoun the Dancing Borg
by
> the planet buster ray, it's dead"
> How do you know that Star Wars' lasers are the same stuff as Star Trek's
> lasers? I thought by Star Trek's standards a phaser is more powerful than
a
> laser so if the Enterprise can withstand a few shots from a Borg phaser
then
> it should be able to withstand one or two hits from Death Star's laser?
I never said that a star wars laser is the same as a star trek laser. But
that does not matter. The death star can blow up a planet in less than a
second. the enterprise cant. ergo, the death star wins.
>
> "why do they have more sensors and scanners and computers? not every ships
> has a spock or data or bashir"
> You must know that well. Every Starfleet starships have an assortment of
> sensors built in. Sub-space sensors, EM sensors, infer-red sensors, back
up
> sensors, various sensors for different type of jobs, and there usually is
at
> least one crew member who could be a Vulcan or a Betazoid or whatever.
Which is why we see MANY star ships destroyed of course...
>
> "it's not a laser"
> Okay, but according to some books on Star Wars which I have, it is laser.
And I call all pens "biros" but it doesnt mean theya re.
>
> "you can't dodge somethign that's moving at the speed of light."
> You can't dodge a laser beam when it had been fired, but you can dodge a
> laser beam long before it had been fired.
that made me laugh.
I am talking about "line of fire".
> The Death Star's weapons officer press the firing button and the
Enterprise'
> s sensors would spot the build up changes of the weapon's energy and the
> Enterprise would move out of the line of fire before the actual firing.
> After that, any ships still in line of fire.boom!
"Sir, I'm reading a buildup in the dea...."
BOOM
you mean like that?
>
> "<snip crap story>"
> Crap? I thought the whole point of a newsgroup is for the fun of agreeing
> and disagreeing with each other's theory, not to call someone else's
theory
> as crap?
no. ur wrong. Usenet is my personal playroom and I can call peopel crap if i
want.
>
> "a few thousand borg cubes..."
> Very well then, let's agree on the Death Star equals about a few thousand
> Borg Cubes.
that was easy.
>
>
> "Luke's torpeo compelted a 72000+ G turn. When have we seen a Star Trek
> torpedo do that?"
> Luke's flight path was close to the surface of the Death Star so when he
> fired his torpedo, it had to do a 90 degree turn to get into the port. The
> Enterprise just stay far away from the Death Star, and fire a torpedo
right
> towards the port. Either would take out the Death Star.
answer my question.
and the federation torpedo would be either shot down, or the ship would be
destroyed before it entered weapons range.
>
> "shields..."
> Death Star II from "Return of the Jedi" had shields. I am taking about the
> first Death Star which as far as I know, did not have any. How do you know
> that Star Wars shields are made of the same stuff as Star Trek shields?
because they said it was "ray shielded".
hense,m it has shields against rays.
>
> "There is no way in hell that the enterprise (e) could destroy the Death
> Star"
> If a single X-Wing could take out the Death Star then why can't the
> Enterprise do the same thing?
try ramming a ferrari up a pick-up-trucks exhaust pipe and then ask me the
question again.
>
> I like both Star Trek and Star Wars. I am not trying to say the Enterprise
> is better than Death Star or things like that.
I hate star wars. but I have seen the light.
Weyoun the Dancing Borg
--
This post is copyright and is owned in full and part by it's original poster
1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 (and soon 2002). Please seek permission before
replying to it and quoting it. Thankyou.
"Matthew Hyde" <mdo...@mtu.edu> wrote in message
news:3C1E28C6...@mtu.edu...
erincss
Star Destroyers, as well as the Borg Cubes. With a TARDIS, their enemy can just
zip into the dimensions where they are, and backwards in time, rewrite a few
things, and voila, none of that. (this is lame logic, ain't it?)
Crayz9000
<20011218010044...@mb-bj.aol.com> on 18 Dec 2001 06:00:44 GMT...
That's the reason we usually don't include time travel in debates. It
doesn't help anything.
Crayz9000
<3C1C09...@netvigator.com> on Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:38:12 +0800...
>Yes, it is for discussion, _but_ if your idea is absolutely moronic and
>had been destroyed about 1 million times, people _will_ get testy when
>you bring it up. That's why reading the R&R is so important.
The R&R? We're talking about a person from alt.startrek here.
Crayz9000
<9QjS7.130227$8a.92...@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com> on Fri, 14 Dec 2001
09:42:29 GMT...
>It also begs the question, how delicate is the superlaser thingy? It looks
>like it depends on several arrays to focus the whatever a superlaser is
>thingy. Without shielding, it would be quite delicate to something as
>powerful as a torpedo wouldn't you think? Torpedoes have a lot more range
>and are definitely more accurate than that superlaser.
Oh, geez... when *have* we seen this amazing accuracy you speak of?
> I would think one or
>two should be sufficient to disabling the arrays that focus the superslaser,
>then it's just a matter of beating a tranquilized elephant to death with a 2
>by 4.
How are you going to get those torpedoes through the shields and down the
shaft without getting either yourself or the torpedoes vaporized in the
process?