Klingon evolution
Bee...@helix.net
> Well thats my
>theory......I hope to hear more of everyone elses:)
Perhaps it was a masiv "elergic reaction".
In the motion pictuer ther heds wher ferly low key, but as evry movei
advanced klingon envalvment, the heds, and the hair becaim more and
more imposing. We nkoe the klingons arnt exactly enviromentely
frendly, or industryely responsibel. Perhaps the poizoning of ther
atmosfper braut out a latent defens mecinisom that was hiden in ther
genetic code from pre-historic time. As ther planet became more lethel
to live on, ther bodeys became more ruged with evry generaition. the
proses was probebly exeleraited after praxix exsploded, and nearly
destroyed ther home worelds atmosfpear.
They probibly won't talk about it becaus ther emberised to admit
that sutch a "sperituely awer" society brawt on ther own
disfigyerment, thrue eresponsibel behaveyer.
I don't mined the heds becoming more bumpey, but i thingk the
hair is geting way out of hand. The Klingons in ST3 had the write
idea, moderetly long greesey haire, simpel, and fungtionel.
Now ther walsing around with huge dolops of perfictly permed hair
that maks them look like ther trying to win a butey contest.
Evry time Klingons rec one of Quarks haloe sweets, i exspect to
see a sean wher ode has to go down to a holding sell and listen to
some enprizond Klingons rant fyeryosly about not having any salon
selectivs.
"listen to ME *changling*...I WANT MY PERT PLUS NOW!!!!"
"Sorey, but we dont SERV that shampoo in this cell block..."
"RAAAAAAAAAWWWWERRRRRRRRRRRR....WHEN I EXSCAIP FROM THIS CAGE I
WILL STRANGEL YOU WITH MY OWEN SPIT ENDS!!!"
Tim Finnemore
I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
--
The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
Capt. Brendan Dillon
Tim Finnemore wrote:
>
> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
No one knows but the Klingons because they don't share this information
with outsiders. That's what Worf told O'Brien, Odo, and Bashir in DS9
"Trials and Tribble-ations".
---
Captain Brendan Dillon
U.S.S. Zefram Cochrane
Star Trek/Sci-fi Newsletter/RPG
bdi...@mindspring.com
My Web page-- with Star Trek parodies, my Trek
E-mail newsletter, profound Words of Wisdom,
The True Religion, and more!
http://www.mindspring.com/~bdillon/captain.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Go back to hell." | "Goats! Goats! Goats!" | "You are a sad, |
| -- Captain Janeway, | -- Bevin Conners | strange little man." |
| "Coda" | | -- Buzz Lightyear |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mimi W. Tzeng
Tim Finnemore (ci_...@paradox.net) wrote:
: I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
: human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
: got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
: seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
: without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
: advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
"Klingons DO NOT discuss it with outsiders!" ;)
I think that's as good as you're going to get (canon-wise).
--
"You are a fluke of the Universe. You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not, the Universe is laughing
behind your back." -- National Lampoon
================================================================
m t z e n g @ c o p p e r . u c s . i n d i a n a . e d u
h t t p : / / c o p p e r . u c s . i n d i a n a . e d u / ~ m t z e n g
The Immortal X-Man
In article <01bc1367$a7667440$340770cf@ci_sys>, "Tim Finnemore"
<ci_...@paradox.net> wrote:
> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
> --
> The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
There really wasn't an explanation given. If you watched teh episode Worf
said they don't discuss it. (HHHmmmmm maybe a plot for a new Klingon
episode.) But anyway it hasn't been disclosed. But the main reason is too
make the Klingons looke more fearsome and those head ridges do make them
look pretty damn pissed all the time compared to funk eyebrows and a
goatee.
--
Like a book amongst the many on the shelf
The Immortal X-Man
http://www.vaxxine.com/ouellem
or...@vaxxine.com
Erik and Marlene Korling
Tim Finnemore wrote:
>
> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
> --
> The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
One explanation that was "hip" right after Star Trek: The Motion Picture
(which was the first "sighting" of the "new" Klingons) was that the
Klingons from the original show were "sub-Klingons", that is, they were
inferior to the Klingons with all the forehead work. Because they were
inferior, the "spineheads" sent them out to run the risk of dying at the
hands of aliens. As they moved farther and farther out, the inferior
breeds slowly died off, leaving only the "spineheads" who then had to go
out and do the dirty work. This explanation sort of worked until DS9
when Koloth, Kang, and (I forget his name, the Klingon from "Day of the
Dove") showed up with spineheads. So, you're guess is as good as any.
Perhaps those few inferiors who did survive were physically altered so
that they would be acceptable in the eyes of the superior spineheads.
Erik
Melissa M. Decker
Tim Finnemore wrote:
>
> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
> --
> The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
As Worf said in "Trials and Tribble-ations," they
don't like to discuss it with outsiders. I
wonder what that means...
--
__ _-==-=_,-. Melissa M. Decker :)
/--`' \_@-@.--< riff...@southeast.net
`--'\ \ <___/. Rocky Horror Ring Manager
\ \\ " /
>=\\_/`<
____ /= | \_|/
_' `\ _/=== \___/
`___/ //\./=/~\====\
http://users.southeast.net/~riffraff/myworld.htm
| ._/_,__|_ ==: __
\/ \\ \\`--| / \\
| _ \\: /==:-\
`.__' `-____/ |--|==:
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_> \ ===\ /==/
/==\ | ===\__/--/ "There's nothing poofy about a
<=== \ / ====\ \\/ man wanting to love his fellow
_`-- \/ === \/--' man- It's just when they start
| \ ==== | touching each other's bottoms..."
-`------/`--' / --Rick, "The Young Ones"
\___-'
Joshua Jarvis
Capt. Brendan Dillon wrote:
>
> Tim Finnemore wrote:
Well with the similarity of klingon ridges and all the ridged delta quad
races
along with the klingons having antibodies to a delta quad disease (the
phage,
to have antibodies you must have been exposed to the disease, a similar
disease,
or vaccinated) I say the klingons must have a delta quad connection in
their
evolution somewhere.
Kody Belshe
Perhaps the answer is in the evolution of different species on different
continents on the Klingon Homeworld. Australia, for instance was seperated
from the rest of the Pangea for longer than other continents and as a
result it has very unique species of animals. Perhaps the
Ridged-forehead-Klingons were less evolved at the time of the Original Star
Trek™ and as they became aware of the Non-ridged-forehead Klingons on
another continent with their superior technology and space-flight
capabilities they decided to take it for themselves. Perhaps the thing Worf
"doesent want to talk about", is a war the ridged forheads to seize the
technology of the non-ridged heads. Perhaps after all of the technology was
siezed , the non-ridged-head Klingons were massacered. Well thats my
Lars Ormberg
Erik and Marlene Korling wrote:
> when Koloth, Kang, and (I forget his name, the Klingon from "Day of the
Captain Kor.
>
> Erik
--
Lars Ormberg
(I don't know where Mr. T lives. Stop phoning my home)
la...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
__
The Commodore's webpage is bigger, badder, and more Java-packed than
ever before! Take a tour at http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/ and have
an experience only categorizable as Lars On-Line!
* The Borg--our most lethal enemy--have begun an invasion of the
Federation. The assimilation continues...STAR TREK:FIRST CONTACT is
still showing in theatres across the country. (Oh, and some Star Wars
thing is supposedly on as well. Like anybody cares).
Ruediger Landmann
Tim Finnemore (ci_...@paradox.net) wrote:
: I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
: human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
: got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
: seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
: without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
: advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
Klingon skull ridges have caused headaches since their first
appearance in ST:TMP nearly 20 years ago. Here's a theory which I believe
fits all the available facts as presented so far.
The basic premise that I proceed from is that Klingon ridges grow
heavier and more elaborate as Klingons age. This is evidenced by:
1) Worf's ridges grow bigger and heavier during the course of TNG and DS9
episodes (9 years of screen time).
2) Alexander has small ridges, but when we see a future version of him in
"Firstborn" (TNG, season 7) his ridge is far more developed.
3) The young Klingons in "Birthright" (TNG, season 7) all have small
ridges.
4) Adolescent Klingons have medium-sized ridges, eg. Klaa (STV:TFF) Duras'
heir.
5) The really old Klingons we've seen have extremely heavy and large
ridges, eg Korrd (STV:TFF), K'Empec, and Kor, Kang, and Koloth as seen in
DS9's "Blood Oath".
It should also be pointed out that this does not necessarily mean that all
Klingons have the same sized crests, even in maturity, and that different
Klingons' crests might not grow at different speeds.
Therefore, for example, although Kruge's crest in STIII:TSFS is no larger
than Worf's in TNG season 1, this does not necessarily mean that they are
the same age.
The basic problem remains, however, why the Klingons in TOS and TAS had no
ridges at all, especially since they are all obviously significantly
older than Alexander and the children in "Birthright", and since three of
these Klingons later re-appeared with well-developed ridges. Another clue
is Worf's line in "Trials and Tribble-ations" that this is NOT something
that Klingons talk about.
The solution that I profer is that either the TOS/TAS Klingons were
injected with an agent that retarded or stopped their crest growth (or,
less likely, reversed it) or that they were surgically altered (like Kirk,
Picard, and Troi were to pass as Romulans). Either (or possibly a
combination of both) of these methods could have been used to render the
Klingons ridgeless a la TOS/TAS.
Why this would have been done is a matter of speculation. Most of the
other theories advanced about human/Klingon "fusions" still work.
They could have done this in order to pass off as humans in order to
infiltrate the Federation. Perhaps Worf's discomfort in "Trials" was at
the thought of Klingons stooping to such a low tactic.
It also could have had something to do with fashion (and yes, Klingons
ARE vain... consider the Ambassador's party in STVI:TUC), but I also
question this... surely it would be more in keeping with Klingon psyche to
want the BIGGEST ridges rather than the smallest? (OTOH, this could be
the very reason that Worf was so reluctant to talk about it)
It may also have been something factional; a physical, tangible break with
(presumably) more traditional, more conservative Klingons. This would
probably have been shocking, and even obscene to other Klingons... a
bodily rejection of Klingon heritage. Either Kor, Kang, and Koloth
belonged to this faction, or their parents did.
In any case, once the need for being ridgeless disappeared, Klingons who
had been so altered either stopped taking their anti-ridge formula and
grew ridges as normal, or were given an antidote that negated the
ridge-stopper. Thus Kor, Kang, Koloth et al would get their ridges. Maybe
they even had a ridge-accelarator which made up for lost time. If surgery
was involved, then more surgery could reverse what had been done.
Kahless must also be mentioned here. When first presented in TOS' "The
Savage Curtain", he was ridgeless, but when appearing in TNG has a ridge.
The explanation for this is simple, and actually independent of the above.
"The Savage Curtain" Kahless was drawn from Kirk's mind, and from his
mental image of what Kahless should look like, just like Abraham Lincoln
was. Kahless "really" had ridges, but Kirk didn't visualize him like that.
Whether at this stage Kirk had ever even seen a ridged Klingon is not
certain.
DJ
Tim Finnemore wrote:
>
> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
One of the national klingon clubs is called KLAW.(mail me and i'll try
and find their address)
They gave an explanation to they different appearances. If you ask me,
it sounds fairly good...even TREK-like.
The klingons with the ridges are known as Imperial Klingons. They are
the oorigional klingons of the klingon homw world. Klingons are used to
the warm moist enviroment of their home world. Most planets seem to
cold or dry for their liking. (people from the desert work/fight best in
the desert, not in the freezing arctic). To assist their communications
with other races, the Klingons genetically bred a knew race of
Klingons. They came up with two new races. As seen in TOS, there was a
human/Klingon race. They looked similar to humans, and found the
enviroments that humans lived in to be tolerable. They less differences
two people have, the more likely they are to get along.
The Klingons also created another race. Although hardly ever seen,
they do exist. Klingon/Romulan.
This breed was bred to interact with Vulcans and Romulans. The planets
of the Vulcans and Romulans were also too dry for the klingons liking.
Again they wanted the race to look similar to the beings they would
interact with. These Romulan/Klingons looked very similar to the
Romulans.
Each of these races had personalities similar to the race they were
designed to resemble. If there is one thing that is certain, it's that
klingons hate humans, Romulans, Ferengi, Vulcans, and Gorn. Romulans
are hated far more than the others. Being that these other races are
only half Klingon (the other half being that of some hated race), they
are looked down upon by the Imperial Klingons. Sometimes fights break
out between the races (small fights: 5-80 people). Some Houses only
alow certain races, while others are "open Houses". The order of
political influence and acceptability into the empire are as follows:
Imperial, Klingon/Human, Klingon/Romulan.
Honor be with you.
Ensign Dartang (Chief Engineer; USS Hawking)
and
Ensign Palmer, D.J. (Multi-Species Physiology; USS Hawking)
Stephen C. Gallagher
Melissa M. Decker wrote:
>
> Tim Finnemore wrote:
> >
> > I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> > human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> > got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> > seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> > without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> > advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
> > --
> > The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
> > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
>
> don't like to discuss it with outsiders. I
> wonder what that means...
It means that the writers couldn't come up with any believable
explaination, so they just decided that Klingons
do not discuss it with outsiders.
S. Gallagher
Buell Anthony B
Tim Finnemore (ci_...@paradox.net) wrote: : I was just watching TROUBLE
WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very : human like.. shave off
the gotie and pass for human... later in the series : got a little
'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin : seems armor
like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human : without
surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art : advances....
But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
Actually, in a TNG episode, a rare disorder (it had something to do with
Lt. Barclay) on the ship gave a hint of what Klingons might've evolved
from, namely, a reptilian creature with large claws, poison sacs in the
throat, a powerful body, and a face that looks partly like a Predator.
On this creature, the "ridges" looked like huge armored plates. Current
Klingon ridges must be an evolutionary "leftover". As for the Klingons
in TOS, that is clearly cosmetic
But, why would a Klingon choose trickery over combat?
Whiprush
BGC junkie who's made his own "first contact"!!
Robbie Steele
It was the dawn of the third age of mankind when "Melissa M. Decker"
<riff...@southeast.net> posted this message.
>Tim Finnemore wrote:
>>
>> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
>> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
>> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
>> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
>> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
>> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
>> The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
>> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
>
>As Worf said in "Trials and Tribble-ations," they
>don't like to discuss it with outsiders. I
>wonder what that means...
From what I remember there was an explaination a while ago which
involved a the different types of Klingons...
The original Klingons were a dominate "race", but after a disasterous
encounter with a Federation Starship (I think it was the Enterprise,
but not sure) causing the Klingon High Council to religate the
originals to some backwater worlds and they slowly died out (due to
"lack of honour" no one of the 'new' klingons would mate with them).
Since then the 'new' klingons have been dominate.
[-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-]
Robbie Steele http://www.rsoft.co.nz/
RSoft Enterprises +64 21-652-064
* Member of the HTML Writers Guild *
Pgp KeyID: 94D4D2C5 (rst...@rsoft.co.nz)
Pgp Fingerprint: C7 66 3E 6E 32 D4 CD 70 36 E0 D2 DE E7 F1 F0 35
Stored at: pgp-pub...@sw.oz.au
Jhen
On 6 Feb 1997 03:10:05 GMT, "Kody Belshe" <ko...@sockets.net> wrote:
Unfortunately that theory can be shot down with the same three words
as the previous one- Kang, Koloth and Kor.
Jhen
On Thu, 06 Feb 1997 08:34:31 -0400, DJ <dar...@flinet.com> wrote:
>Tim Finnemore wrote:
>>
>One of the national klingon clubs is called KLAW.(mail me and i'll try
>and find their address)
>They gave an explanation to they different appearances. If you ask me,
>it sounds fairly good...even TREK-like.
I actually recall FASA's roleplaying game based on TOS giving a
similar explanation with imperial klingons and klingon-human and
klingon-romulan fusions. Anyone remember that game? Guess im getting
old...
Mark B
Ruediger Landmann wrote:
>
> Tim Finnemore (ci_...@paradox.net) wrote:
>
> : I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> : human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> : got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> : seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> : without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> : advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
>
Very well thought out. Two other possibilties come to mind. The
Organians did it as punishment or Q ( or Q2 of Q3 etc.) did it as a
joke. What bothers me the most is that the DS9 folk didn't recognize
the TOS klingons. Did they sleep through history class in school or
don't they have photos in the 24th century?
--
Mark B
mar...@airmail.net
(Remove the asterisk in the address before replying.)
Tim Finnemore
Thank all of you for your input you are all credits to your races *****
Tim Finnemore <ci_...@paradox.net> wrote in article
<01bc1367$a7667440$340770cf@ci_sys>...
> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were
very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the
series
COLLIN FREEMAN
Jhen wrote:
> I actually recall FASA's roleplaying game based on TOS giving a
> similar explanation with imperial klingons and klingon-human and
> klingon-romulan fusions. Anyone remember that game? Guess im getting
> old...
That's where the theory came from: the FASA people. And I hope you're
not old because not only do I remember the game but I have a copy at
home.
_______________________________________________________
Collin Freeman, Pharm.D., BCPS
UMKC School of Medicine,
2411 Holmes St., M5-307,
Kansas City, MO 64108
Ph: (816) 235-1953, Fax: (816) 235-5194
Kody Belshe
> Kang, Koloth and Kor
What about them? I said perhaps there were different ethnical groups of
klingons and one group was massacered....... How can Kang, Koloth and Kor
disprove this theory? Please explain your reason for this disprovision of
my theory for me as I am not as well versed in all the theories from the
classic Star trek(i am guessing thats where Kang, Koloth and Kor are
from??). I am more of a modern Voyager/DS9/TNG person although I am still a
big Classic Trek fan too..... thanks Kody
DUELLO
- Perhaps it was a masiv "elergic reaction".
Get a major spell checker
DUELLO
Hey you need a major spell checker!!
Erik and Marlene Korling
Kody Belshe wrote:
>
> > Kang, Koloth and Kor
>
> What about them? I said perhaps there were different ethnical groups of
> klingons and one group was massacered....... How can Kang, Koloth and Kor
> thanks Kody
Kody,
Who are you responding to? For me, the problem with Kang, Koloth, and
Kor is that in the original show they didn't have spineheads. They were
just like the cheapo-looking goons from DS9's "tribble" episode.
However, in the DS9 timeframe, Kang, Koloth, and Kor have spineheads.
The problem, of course, is how did their spines grow up and over their
craniums in less than a century? That's some pretty radical Lamarckian
Evolution (which is bogus anyway) taking place. Darwin would roll over
in he grave. As I remarked in my response earlier, perhaps those few
"expendable" Klingons, the inferior breed which did not have spineheads,
who did not die in the first wave of Klingon galactic expansion were
somehow physically altered to "fit in" with their superiors who, annoyed
that they hadn't been killed off, perturbed that they couldn't honorably
just kill off a bunch of actual heroes, could not figure out any other
way to deal with them. If it weren't for Worf's "not wanting to talk
about it" response to his crewmates in the "tribble" episode, we could
still write off the "change" to just makeup. However, now that there is
some precedent for a "change", we've got to come up with something
tenable, at least.
Erik
Perrin
(I've removed the Voyager newsgroup from this thread as it isn't
appropriate there.)
In article <5ddhme$7...@library.airnews.net>,
Mark B <mar...@airmail.net*> wrote:
[snip long explanation about how the Klingons got their ridges]
>Very well thought out. Two other possibilties come to mind. The
>Organians did it as punishment or Q ( or Q2 of Q3 etc.) did it as a
>joke.
Hmm, maybe it was the Tribbles. :) They might have some special
cosmetic power that we know nothing about. (And that was the final
straw that caused the Klingons to kill off the Tribbles--or perhaps
the Klingons' attempt forced the Tribbles to use their secret
weapon.... :)
/
:@-) Scott
\
P.S. For any Robert Jordan fans--are ridged foreheads something like
the taint of saidin, a counterstroke from the Tribbles? Or perhaps
some Tribble Lord, who is now imprisoned...? Ugh, gotta stop thinking
along those lines....
Lars Ormberg
Robbie Steele wrote:
> The original Klingons were a dominate "race", but after a disasterous
> encounter with a Federation Starship (I think it was the Enterprise,
> but not sure) causing the Klingon High Council to religate the
> originals to some backwater worlds and they slowly died out (due to
> "lack of honour" no one of the 'new' klingons would mate with them).
It doesn't explain Koloth, Kang, or Kor.
> Since then the 'new' klingons have been dominate.
>
> [-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-]
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> RSoft Enterprises +64 21-652-064
>
> * Member of the HTML Writers Guild *
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Billy Powell
Bee...@helix.net
On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:04:50 GMT, ka...@iw.net (Jason Kauffman) wrote:
>On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:15:07 GMT, Bee...@helix.net wrote:
>
>>> Well thats my
>>>theory......I hope to hear more of everyone elses:)
>>
>> Perhaps it was a masiv "elergic reaction".
>>In the motion pictuer ther heds wher ferly low key, but as evry movei
>>advanced klingon envalvment, the heds, and the hair becaim more and
>>more imposing. We nkoe the klingons arnt exactly enviromentely
>
>
>Someone here needs to learn how to spell.. !!!!
>
How often do i have to exspane this?
Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
Q'vaD
Erik and Marlene Korling <meko...@igalaxy.net> wrote:
>Kody Belshe wrote:
>>
>> > Kang, Koloth and Kor
>>
>> What about them? I said perhaps there were different ethnical groups of
>> klingons and one group was massacered....... How can Kang, Koloth and Kor
>> disprove this theory?[SNIP]
>> thanks Kody
>Kody,
>Who are you responding to? For me, the problem with Kang, Koloth, and
>Kor is that in the original show they didn't have spineheads. They were
>just like the cheapo-looking goons from DS9's "tribble" episode.
>However, in the DS9 timeframe, Kang, Koloth, and Kor have spineheads.
>The problem, of course, is how did their spines grow up and over their
>craniums in less than a century? That's some pretty radical Lamarckian
I'm not disagreeing with you, but instead had a slightly off-topic
question - why do you say "spineheads?" The term I'm used to hearing
is "ridgeheads"...but I confess I've never really thought about the
"ridges/spines" being attributed to an extension of the vertebrae. I'd
always thought of them being more of a very elaborately-evolved brow
ridge, designed to protect the cranium...but, I don't profess to be an
"expert" on Klingon anatomy, nor am I very conversant with the older
Trek material. Anyway, the comment caught my attention so I thought
I'd ask.
>still write off the "change" to just makeup. However, now that there is
>some precedent for a "change", we've got to come up with something
>tenable, at least.
Yeah, I was looking forward to hearing the explanation and then we got
gypped with the "we don't talk about it with outsiders" song and
dance. How 'bout us "insider" Klingon fans, huh? }}:->
--------
bImejDI' reH betleHlIj yitlhap.
qv...@cdc.net
NOTE: remove # from reply address
Ruediger Landmann
DJ (dar...@flinet.com) wrote:
: The klingons with the ridges are known as Imperial Klingons. They are
: the oorigional klingons of the klingon homw world. Klingons are used to
: the warm moist enviroment of their home world. Most planets seem to
: cold or dry for their liking. (people from the desert work/fight best in
: the desert, not in the freezing arctic). To assist their communications
: with other races, the Klingons genetically bred a knew race of
: Klingons. They came up with two new races. As seen in TOS, there was a
: human/Klingon race. They looked similar to humans, and found the
: enviroments that humans lived in to be tolerable. They less differences
: two people have, the more likely they are to get along.
: The Klingons also created another race. Although hardly ever seen,
: they do exist. Klingon/Romulan.
: This breed was bred to interact with Vulcans and Romulans. The planets
: of the Vulcans and Romulans were also too dry for the klingons liking.
: Again they wanted the race to look similar to the beings they would
: interact with. These Romulan/Klingons looked very similar to the
: Romulans.
:
: Each of these races had personalities similar to the race they were
: designed to resemble. If there is one thing that is certain, it's that
: klingons hate humans, Romulans, Ferengi, Vulcans, and Gorn. Romulans
: are hated far more than the others. Being that these other races are
: only half Klingon (the other half being that of some hated race), they
: are looked down upon by the Imperial Klingons. Sometimes fights break
: out between the races (small fights: 5-80 people). Some Houses only
: alow certain races, while others are "open Houses". The order of
: political influence and acceptability into the empire are as follows:
: Imperial, Klingon/Human, Klingon/Romulan.
This was the favoured theory in circulation after ST:TMP and which founf
its way into the FASA RPG.
It does not account for the non-ridged Klingons of TOS appearing later on
DS9 with ridges.
Ruediger Landmann
Mark B (mar...@airmail.net*) wrote:
: Very well thought out. Two other possibilties come to mind. The
: Organians did it as punishment or Q ( or Q2 of Q3 etc.) did it as a
: joke.
Remember though that Kahless had ridges, unless the organians/Q also
changed his stored genetic code, and also that as someone else here has
pointed out, the creature that the Klingons seem to have evolved form had
ridges too.
What bothers me the most is that the DS9 folk didn't recognize
: the TOS klingons. Did they sleep through history class in school or
: don't they have photos in the 24th century?
This is a more difficult question. The best solution, I think, is that the
DS9 people were so used to seeing the ridged Klingons that the TOS
versions just came as a shock. Even if you have seen something in a photo
or even video, seeing the real article can still be a surprise. This also
presumes that these people hadn;t been spending much time playing out
historical holodeck adventures with TOS/TAS Klingons...
David L. Steingass
You all have very admirable solutions, but as it has shown in the past, i
believe the writers keep track of these newsgroups and discussions andlet
us be lead on to different plots and situations (as in the plots and
scripts that were out prior to the release of First Contact). But then
knock our socks off and write something totally opposite of public
speculation.
That is assuming that this question will ever be answered, i'm sure the
lounge scene with the older Klingons was really intended to be nothing more
than a humor break in the episode.
E.Holton
Previously in discussion "Klingon evolution", Ruediger Landmann said...
>Mark B (mar...@airmail.net*) wrote:
>
>: Very well thought out. Two other possibilties come to mind. The
>: Organians did it as punishment or Q ( or Q2 of Q3 etc.) did it as a
>: joke.
>
>Remember though that Kahless had ridges, unless the organians/Q also
>changed his stored genetic code, and also that as someone else here has
>pointed out, the creature that the Klingons seem to have evolved form had
>ridges too.
As the ridges could have been a long buried part of the Klingon genetic
code (from the creature they evolved from) I can't see why a Q joke can
just bring it to the fore, and of course, as it's become normal then the
monks at Borath would just make sure that the clone of Kahless would
have his genetically ultra-recessive but expected ridges.
Another possibility that's just sprung to mind is that a Q joke REMOVED
the ridges for a while. You can just imagine some prideful Klingons
meeting the Q entity for a while, and of course Q notices that Klingons
are extremely prideful of their head ridges. In a fit of spite Q
removes the ridges, making all Klingons as smooth-headed as a newborn (I
like to think that Klingon heads are pretty smooth when they're born
because it'll be damn uncomfortable for the mothers if they come out
fully formed). If this happens just before TOS then it does leave
enough time for smooth heads to be seen during TOS and for ridges to be
seen in TMP. It also gives Kang, Koloth and Kor enough time for their
ridges to regrow, and the reason why Klingons don't talk about it -
shame.
For Kahless' appearance in TOS 'The Savage Curtain' - don't forget all
of the non-Enterprise people on the planet were taken from Kirk's mind,
so although the Federation had heard of Kahless, and thus Kirk had, Kirk
didn't know him as anything other than smooth-headed and so he was
portrayed that way.
--
Euan Holton Email: Eu...@top-hat.demon.co.uk
John L. Beiermann II
Tim Finnemore <ci_...@paradox.net> wrote in article <01bc1367$a7667440$340770cf@ci_sys>...
> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
> --
> The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
>
>
In "More Tribbles, More Troubles", the DS9 crew went back in time and met the TOS crew in that episode. When O'Brein asked Worf why the Klingons of then looked human he snarled that they don't discuss that with outsiders.
Kinda ends the controversy somewhat for the discrepancy. Not very neatly, but it's only a show ;)
--
John L. Beiermann II
phan...@sprynet.com
jbei...@uriacc.uri.edu
John L. Beiermann II
Now I remember what the title of that Ep is :)
--
John L. Beiermann II
phan...@sprynet.com
jbei...@uriacc.uri.edu
Stephen C. Gallagher <stephen....@istar.ca> wrote in article <5dcs59$k...@nr1.ottawa.istar.net>...
> Melissa M. Decker wrote:
> >
> > Tim Finnemore wrote:
> > >
> > > I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> > > human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> > > got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> > > seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> > > without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> > > advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
> > > --
> > > The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
> > >
> > As Worf said in "Trials and Tribble-ations," they
> > don't like to discuss it with outsiders. I
> > wonder what that means...
>
Tank
Tim Finnemore wrote:
>
> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the series
> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
> --
> The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
talk about it. One of the popular fan theories is that certain Klingons
were part of an experiment to allow them to infiltrate the Federation.
--
**********************************************************************
The Master: (To Draconian Emperor) No body could be more devoted to
the cause of peace than I. As a commissioner of Earth's
inter-planetary police I have devoted my life to the
causes of law and order. And law and order can only exist
in a time of peace.
The Doctor: Are you feeling all right, old chap?
- From "Frontier in Space"
**********************************************************************
The Immortal X-Man
The writers are probably sitting in front of their computers word
proccessing their asses off to come up with something that makes sense.
Trek really bit itself in the tail with this one didn't it? Anyway My
theory is similar to one that has already been expressed. The Klingons
were exposed to something in the air or Water that caused the ridges to
appear(Re appear-ie Worf in "Genesis" on TNG had huge ridges as a part of
an exoskeleton). Either that or they were surgically altered when the
joined the the Space fleet to be more closely looking like Human/Romulan
types without huge ridges. but remeber. The Vulcans and Romulans now seem
to have more pronounced brows tha before with very distinct indents at the
beginning of the NOse aong with the ears
--
Like a book amongst the many on the shelf
The Immortal X-Man
http://www.vaxxine.com/ouellem
or...@vaxxine.com
Bee...@helix.net
On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:46:28 -0800, Shatterhand
<gill...@scf-fs.usc.edu> wrote:
>Bee...@helix.net (barely)wrote:
>> How often do i have to exspane this?
>> Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
>> to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
>
>Hey, you speakin' the Ebonics? I cans't stan' dat. Take your time and
>check what you type big boy. Then you won't look so stupid, I promise.
>
> RARR!
Thats the second time ive had an "Ebonics" referenc.
if you had botherd to read the other postings under my name you would
understand the real reson wy i "look stuped". Its not what you thingk.
>big boy.
^whats this? you *asume* that im maile?
Bee...@helix.net
On 11 Feb 1997 17:12:08 GMT, "Tim Finnemore" <ci_...@paradox.net>
wrote:
>
>
>Shatterhand <gill...@scf-fs.usc.edu> wrote in article
><330023...@scf-fs.usc.edu>...
>> Bee...@helix.net (barely)wrote:
>> > How often do i have to exspane this?
>> > Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
>> > to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
>> check what you type big boy. Then you won't look so stupid, I promise.
>>
>> RARR!
>
>Most browzers hav spel chekers
>Most browses have spell checkers
>what do you know it worked
Try runing one of my larger perigrafs thrue your spell
cheker...Would you have the paitions to do that evrey time you needed
to post something?
Now pretend you don't NKOE how to spell? What good are the
checers sudgestions going to be to you?
It gets wers wen the larger three silibel words are so badly spellt
that the sudgestions are totely un-relaited, or ther are no sudgetions
at all.
If i have to wast anny more time defending myself, i might
just stop posting all together. Maybe ill go someplace wher evrybodey
REALY talks about Star Trek, insted of trying to beet etchother at mud
flinging.
Alan Brain
Tim Finnemore wrote:
re Forehead ridges on Klingons.
But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
The following is the first published explanation, which appeared
immediately after the 1st edition of the Klingon Dictionary, just after
ST:TMP first came out:
Federation Intelligence analysis of the Klingon language shows some 30+
words for "Forehead". Just as the Human species has many so-called
'races', differing in cross-sectional shape of hair, size, eye
colouration, skin pigmentation etc, so do Klingons differ, mainly in the
configuration of facial physiogomy.
The period of TOS coincided with a dynasty which was remarkably 'baby
faced' in its appearance. The ridges that all Klingons have, and which
get larger with age, were absent until late middle age in this 'race'.
Naturally, all spaceship commanders and senior military personnel were
of the correct race - the Klingons are no less racist than pre-22nd
century Humans in that regard.
But Dynasties change. And in a bloody coup that is still shrouded in
some mystery - the Klingons refuse to discuss it - most of the
commanders of the Ancient Regime were purged. Some of the oldest ones
were sufficiently politically flexible to change with the times, and so
were rehabilitated. Their appearance - having lost their 'boyish good
looks' with age - also helped. It may be that the increasing contact
with the Human-dominated Federation led to suspicions of infiltration
(NB that last comes verbatim from a Romulan document that was the
primary source, and is not the official opinion of UFP Intel).
The historically minded will see the parallels with the Manchu Dynasty
in China, and for that matter, the periods in France immediately after
the revolution, and for that matter, both the first and second Bourbon
restorations.
--
---------------------- <> <> How doth the little Crocodile
| Alan & Carmel Brain| xxxxx Improve his shining tail?
| Canberra Australia | xxxxxHxHxxxxxx _MMMMMMMMM_MMMMMMMMM
---------------------- o OO*O^^^^O*OO o oo oo oo oo
By pulling MAERKLIN Wagons, in 1/220 Scale
Scott Rae
Ruediger Landmann wrote:
>
> Mark B (mar...@airmail.net*) wrote:
>
> What bothers me the most is that the DS9 folk didn't recognize
> : the TOS klingons. Did they sleep through history class in school or
> : don't they have photos in the 24th century?
>
> This is a more difficult question. The best solution, I think, is that the
> DS9 people were so used to seeing the ridged Klingons that the TOS
> versions just came as a shock. Even if you have seen something in a photo
> or even video, seeing the real article can still be a surprise. This also
> presumes that these people hadn;t been spending much time playing out
> historical holodeck adventures with TOS/TAS Klingons...
Another question, and I may be wrong in my facts but if Worf and the rest of the DS9
crew saw the TOS Klingons and had questions about their apperance, none of these current
explainations explain why the TOS Klingons didn't look at Worf and wonder about him.
I think Worf had his head covered or something like that but still, I would think the
TOS Klingons would of reconized him for what he is. (I know in our "real" world it's
only a show, with film splicing and computer touch ups).
I don't think the "Q joke", or the "Instant Evolution", or the "Inferrier Breed" for
export, or any of the other theories out there is can fully explain the differance. I
don't think the producers will ever completly answer this "differance" question. This
is probibaly the one, most asked question in the whole Star Trek universe and the
producers are going to "milk it" for all it worth.
With so many comments and scenes (from so many shows) spawning so many differant
theories, I don't think the writers could come up with an viable explaination if they
tried to.
We're all going to that Great Galaxy in the sky still asking "WHY"?
LL&P,
Scott
Gardner D. Underhill 3rd
Jhen <jh...@bluesky.net.au> wrote in article
...Snipped some stuff...
> I actually recall FASA's roleplaying game based on TOS giving a
> similar explanation with imperial klingons and klingon-human and
> klingon-romulan fusions. Anyone remember that game? Guess im getting
> old...
supplements and games were out of this world. They had just the right balance
between honor, paranoia, rage, and cunning that makes the feisty Klingons of
ST:TNG look like whimps.
The way it was explained was that in order to understand and defeat a worthy
enemy they would capture some, extract the DNA and blend it with their own to
create a fusion race. This fusion race would then deal with the enemy the
empire wished to defeat. The Klingons in ST:TOS were human fusion Klingons
designed to deal and defeat the Federation. They must have been phased out as
being unsuccessful.
--
"MOM! DAD! DON'T TOUCH IT'S EVIL!!!"
Kevin, "Time Bandits"
GDU3rd
TSN
I think Worf's line was just a convient and witty way of getting out of
explaining the ridged and non-ridged klingons..my two cents.
Tim
In <01bc13d1$5df59740$c45ef2cd@kodyb> "Kody Belshe" <ko...@sockets.net>
writes:
>
>. Perhaps the thing Worf
>"doesent want to talk about", is a war the ridged forheads to seize
the
>technology of the non-ridged heads. Perhaps after all of the
technology was
>siezed , the non-ridged-head Klingons were massacered. Well thats my
Bryce Fields
TSN wrote:
>
> I think Worf's line was just a convient and witty way of getting out of
> explaining the ridged and non-ridged klingons..my two cents.
>
> Tim
>
Let's face it. When they had Kang, Kor, and Koloth show up on DS-9
looking like present day Klingons, the writers backed themselves into a
corner when it comes to explaining the whole forehead thing. Any
plausable explaination would have to account for them and not sound too
hokey...and as this subject can attest to, that's a hard thing to do.
Like everyone else, I waited on the edge of my seat for Worf to explain
the forehead thing only to be disappointed by a copout. In my humble
opinion, Worf's "we don't talk about it with outsiders" is the only
explanation we will get on the matter.
But then again...maybe the Klingons are allergic to tribbles. And the
foreheads are part of that allergic reaction. It would explain why they
hate the cute little furballs so much (Too hokey??? I thought so too).
Qapla'
Banzai
Jason Kauffman
On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:15:07 GMT, Bee...@helix.net wrote:
>> Well thats my
>>theory......I hope to hear more of everyone elses:)
>
> Perhaps it was a masiv "elergic reaction".
>In the motion pictuer ther heds wher ferly low key, but as evry movei
>advanced klingon envalvment, the heds, and the hair becaim more and
>more imposing. We nkoe the klingons arnt exactly enviromentely
>frendly, or industryely responsibel. Perhaps the poizoning of ther
>atmosfper braut out a latent defens mecinisom that was hiden in ther
>genetic code from pre-historic time. As ther planet became more lethel
>to live on, ther bodeys became more ruged with evry generaition. the
>proses was probebly exeleraited after praxix exsploded, and nearly
Someone here needs to learn how to spell.. !!!!
William Burns
"David L. Steingass" <cybe...@bright.net> wrote:
>That is assuming that this question will ever be answered, i'm sure the
>lounge scene with the older Klingons was really intended to be nothing more
>than a humor break in the episode.
No doubt. But I like my own explanation, ie, Klingons were a
non-space faring race until they were contacted by humans (and
Vulcans) and were uplifted. The Klingons, highly impressionable,
noted that the only space-faring races they knew of had smooth
foreheads. They made the erroneous conclusion that only "smoothies"
could travel into space. When they made it, they surgically altered
themselves to fit in.
When they (much later) came to their senses, the surgery ceased, the
"smoothies" went back under the knife to restore the damage, and none
of them willingly talk about it for fear of simple embarrassment.
--William
A man said to the universe,
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation." (Stephen Crane)
Mark B
Bryce Fields wrote:
> But then again...maybe the Klingons are allergic to tribbles. And the
> foreheads are part of that allergic reaction. It would explain why they
> hate the cute little furballs so much (Too hokey??? I thought so too).
>
Great explanation! Better than my Organian/Q one. Problem is that the
writers could never make it comedic. Their attempts at humor have been
stilted at best. Lines like "a touch of lilac" are rareties.
--
Mark B
mar...@airmail.net
(Remove the asterisk in the address before replying.)
Tim Finnemore
the seems to be the consensus but there are many good theories thanks to
all for the input on the groups and direst e mail
--
The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
TSN <sta...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5dl7nq$b...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>...
Philip Darke
I've always put the difference down to production costs. When the
movies and TNG came along they wanted to make the Klingons more imposing
compared to the other races, hence the bumps. I don't think they
thought about what they were doing first.
--
Philip Darke ---------------------------------- Phi...@darke.demon.co.uk
--------------------- http://www.darke.demon.co.uk ---------------------
---------------------------- For STAR TREK! ----------------------------
Steve Robertson
very
> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the
series
> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
In a recent DS9 episode, Trials and Tribble-ations, that very question was
asked of Worf when his crewmates looked at the old Klingons and then him.
The only answer he gave was that it was something they didn't talk about.
-Steve-
James Grady Ward
Philip Darke wrote:
>
> I've always put the difference down to production costs. When the
> movies and TNG came along they wanted to make the Klingons more imposing
> compared to the other races, hence the bumps. I don't think they
> thought about what they were doing first.
actually i think the movie and later versions of the klingons were
what was orignally intended for the klingons. supposedly it was not
worth the time and trouble to make them appear that way in the show.
considering we only see them in 4 or 5 of the shows, why go to a lot
of trouble in their make up.
--
buckysan: does anyone else like ani-mayhem?
annapuma and unapumma in 96'
" the realization that the pursuit of knowledge can be an
end unto itself is the beginning and highest form of wisdom"
Shatterhand
Bee...@helix.net (barely)wrote:
> How often do i have to exspane this?
> Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
> to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
Hey, you speakin' the Ebonics? I cans't stan' dat. Take your time and
Forrest Chang
James Grady Ward <jgw...@eos.ncsu.edu> writes:
>
> Philip Darke wrote:
> >
> > I've always put the difference down to production costs. When the
> > movies and TNG came along they wanted to make the Klingons more imposing
> > compared to the other races, hence the bumps. I don't think they
> > thought about what they were doing first.
>
> actually i think the movie and later versions of the klingons were
> what was orignally intended for the klingons. supposedly it was not
> worth the time and trouble to make them appear that way in the show.
> considering we only see them in 4 or 5 of the shows, why go to a lot
> of trouble in their make up.
>
When Gene Roddenberry gave a lecture at my college back
in the 80's, he specifically mentioned that the Klingons were
originally intended to be space faring Mongols. If you go back
to _Errand Of Mercy_ you can see the mongol look in the facial hair
of the commander.
The modern Klingons still keep somewhat similar facial
hair.
Fo
_____________________________________________________________
Forrest K. Chang 45365 Vintage Park Plaza, Ste 100
Template Software Dulles, VA 20166
ch...@template.com (703) 318 1221
Tim Finnemore
Shatterhand <gill...@scf-fs.usc.edu> wrote in article
<330023...@scf-fs.usc.edu>...
> Bee...@helix.net (barely)wrote:
> > How often do i have to exspane this?
> > Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
> > to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
> check what you type big boy. Then you won't look so stupid, I promise.
>
> RARR!
Most browzers hav spel chekers
Most browses have spell checkers
what do you know it worked
Kate Gettys
Thank you Rusty for your comments. EXACTLY what I was thinking. But
hopefully Beezel doesn't pay attention to the comments hurtful tho they
may be. They aren't worth her/his time. Spell checkers don't catch all
the mistakes, and some netbrowsers don't have spell check. Like mine.
Besides, there are other reasons for mispellings, such as disabilities
like mine which cause fingers to fumble and hit wrong keys etc.
Beezel,
I enjoy your comments! Keep 'em coming!
Smiles,
Kate
Rusty wrote:
>
> On 6 Feb 1997 21:31:22 GMT, DUELLO <due...@midtn.cqmpus.mci.net>
> wrote:
> >:Get a major spell checker
> >:
> Please give Beezel a break. It has been mentioned in the group before
> Beezel is dyslexic. Beezel's posts can be read and understood, and
> they are relevant.
bondo@buggy
Bee...@helix.net wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:46:28 -0800, Shatterhand
> <gill...@scf-fs.usc.edu> wrote:
>
> >> How often do i have to exspane this?
> >> Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
> >> to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
> >
> >
> > RARR!
>
> if you had botherd to read the other postings under my name you would
> understand the real reson wy i "look stuped". Its not what you thingk.
> >big boy.
> ^whats this? you *asume* that im maile?
Karen Dietlein
Bee...@helix.net wrote:
>
> On 11 Feb 1997 17:12:08 GMT, "Tim Finnemore" <ci_...@paradox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >> > How often do i have to exspane this?
> >> > Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
> >> > to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
> >>
> >> RARR!
> >
> >Most browses have spell checkers
> >what do you know it worked
>
> cheker...Would you have the paitions to do that evrey time you needed
> to post something?
> Now pretend you don't NKOE how to spell? What good are the
> checers sudgestions going to be to you?
> It gets wers wen the larger three silibel words are so badly spellt
> that the sudgestions are totely un-relaited, or ther are no sudgetions
> at all.
> If i have to wast anny more time defending myself, i might
> just stop posting all together. Maybe ill go someplace wher evrybodey
> REALY talks about Star Trek, insted of trying to beet etchother at mud
> flinging.
Sorr, all we do is mud flinging here. Mud flinging at Cronan, mud
flinging at TPTB, and most of all, mud flinging at the show we love the
most, Star Trek.
Karen
Dr. Feelgood
> >: "listen to ME *changling*...I WANT MY PERT PLUS NOW!!!!"
> >: "Sorey, but we dont SERV that shampoo in this cell block..."
> >: "RAAAAAAAAAWWWWERRRRRRRRRRRR....WHEN I EXSCAIP FROM THIS CAGE I
> >:---WILL STRANGEL YOU WITH MY OWEN SPIT ENDS!!!"
> >:
> >:
> >:Get a major spell checker
> >:
> Please give Beezel a break. It has been mentioned in the group before
> Beezel is dyslexic. Beezel's posts can be read and understood, and
> they are relevant.
Relevant? Read that again.
Dr. Feelgood
In article <3305a0fe...@news.dircon.co.uk>, poco...@dircon.co.uk
(Rusty) wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Feb 1997 01:40:36 GMT, Bee...@helix.net wrote:
>
> >:On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:46:28 -0800, Shatterhand
> >:<gill...@scf-fs.usc.edu> wrote:
> >:
> >:>Bee...@helix.net (barely)wrote:
> >:>> How often do i have to exspane this?
> >:>> Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
> >:>> to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
> >:>
> >:>Hey, you speakin' the Ebonics? I cans't stan' dat. Take your time and
> >:>check what you type big boy. Then you won't look so stupid, I promise.
> >:>
> >:> RARR!
> >:
> >: Thats the second time ive had an "Ebonics" referenc.
> >:if you had botherd to read the other postings under my name you would
> >:understand the real reson wy i "look stuped". Its not what you thingk.
> >:>big boy.
> >: ^whats this? you *asume* that im maile?
>
> I can read read Beezel's posts and encourage them, at least they are
> relevant.
Yes let's give her/him a break for once.
Beezel it would probably help if you added that .sig file you were talking
about. Idiots like this crop up all the time and it would probably save
you a lot of grief.
And as far as assuming you were male, why should that surprise you after
the asshole already assumed -
a. That you were ignorant or stupid.
and
b. That ebonics (also known as Black or African English in linguistic
circles for over 30 years now), had something to do with bad spelling.
David Warren
In a previous article, stro...@nrcan.gc.ca ("Steve Robertson") says:
>Tim Finnemore <ci_...@paradox.net> wrote in article
><01bc1367$a7667440$340770cf@ci_sys>...
>> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were
>very
>> human like.. shave off the gotie and pass for human... later in the
>series
>> got a little 'groovy' and now with the likes of WORD and others the skin
>> seems armor like, and the chances of a true Klingon passing as human
>> without surgery... I know there is an explanation of makeup and art
>> advances.... But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
>> --
>> The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
>> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2073
>>
>>
>
>In a recent DS9 episode, Trials and Tribble-ations, that very question was
>asked of Worf when his crewmates looked at the old Klingons and then him.
>The only answer he gave was that it was something they didn't talk about.
>
>-Steve-
>
no, REALLY!? (that was just what started this discussion!)
--
___ __ __ __ __ __________________________________
| \ /\\ /|__ \ //\ |__||__||__|\ | |Founder of the yet to be finished|
|__//--\\/ |__ \/\//--\| \| \|__| \|__|STAR WARS sig. |_________________
|If you have any Q's or Com's E-mail me at: wx...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca|
Rusty
>: - Perhaps it was a masiv "elergic reaction".
<Snip good stuff from Beezel>
.
Rusty
Dr. Feelgood
> On 11 Feb 1997 17:12:08 GMT, "Tim Finnemore" <ci_...@paradox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Shatterhand <gill...@scf-fs.usc.edu> wrote in article
> ><330023...@scf-fs.usc.edu>...
> >> Bee...@helix.net (barely)wrote:
> >> > How often do i have to exspane this?
> >> > Just giv me a second wile i check to see if ive acsidently subscribed
> >> > to Alt.Spellchecers agen...
> >> check what you type big boy. Then you won't look so stupid, I promise.
> >>
> >> RARR!
> >
> >Most browzers hav spel chekers
> >Most browses have spell checkers
> >what do you know it worked
>
> Try runing one of my larger perigrafs thrue your spell
> cheker...Would you have the paitions to do that evrey time you needed
> to post something?
> Now pretend you don't NKOE how to spell? What good are the
> checers sudgestions going to be to you?
> It gets wers wen the larger three silibel words are so badly spellt
> that the sudgestions are totely un-relaited, or ther are no sudgetions
> at all.
> If i have to wast anny more time defending myself, i might
> just stop posting all together. Maybe ill go someplace wher evrybodey
> REALY talks about Star Trek, insted of trying to beet etchother at mud
> flinging.
Adding a .sig file that explains will take care of everyone but the real
assholes, and keep you from having to constantly defend yourself. As far
as I know there are no asshole proof discussion groups out there, it's the
downside to free speech. There is a lot of real discussion in this group,
sometimes you just have to stick with it. Most of the people hassling you
aren't bad, just ignorant, and an explanatory .sig file should help a lot.
And if it's any consolation, the asshole with the spell checker fucked up
spelling BROWSERS.
Steve Robertson
A very interesting explanation. But how would that cover Klingon's who've
made appearances in both TOS and DS9 and Voyager such as Kang, Koloth and
Kor? In TOS, no bony ridges, but in their appearances in the 24th century,
ridges and all.
Just curious...
-Steve-
Alan Brain <aeb...@dynamite.com.au> wrote in article
<32FC67...@dynamite.com.au>...
> Tim Finnemore wrote:
> re Forehead ridges on Klingons.
>
> But I'm looking for a TrExplanation any input ???
>
Wesley L. Marquart
Bee...@helix.net wrote:
> If i have to wast anny more time defending myself, i might
> just stop posting all together. Maybe ill go someplace wher evrybodey
> REALY talks about Star Trek, insted of trying to beet etchother at mud
> flinging.
Bravo Beezel! or perhaps I should say Kai Klingon Brother!
Keep up the good fight (and keep posting - most people here are
decent - but there are a few Kueve in every crowd!)
To everyone else:
Its not HOW someone speaks - its WHAT they have to say that shows
who and what they are......
The idea here is for discussion.....not flaming each other....if
nothing else save it for the "Feddies" <G>
Lt Tckaija tai K'ron -- KAG (& Proud of it!)
Ruediger Landmann
Steve Robertson (stro...@nrcan.gc.ca) wrote:
: A very interesting explanation. But how would that cover Klingon's who've
: made appearances in both TOS and DS9 and Voyager such as Kang, Koloth and
: Kor? In TOS, no bony ridges, but in their appearances in the 24th century,
: ridges and all.
:
: Just curious...
:
: -Steve-
Klingon skull ridges have caused headaches since their first
appearance in ST:TMP nearly 20 years ago. Here's a theory which I believe
fits all the available facts as presented so far.
The basic premise that I proceed from is that Klingon ridges grow
heavier and more elaborate as Klingons age. This is evidenced by:
1) Worf's ridges grow bigger and heavier during the course of TNG and DS9
episodes (9 years of screen time).
2) Alexander has small ridges, but when we see a future version of him in
"Firstborn" (TNG, season 7) his ridge is far more developed.
3) The young Klingons in "Birthright" (TNG, season 7) all have small
ridges.
4) Adolescent Klingons have medium-sized ridges, eg. Klaa (STV:TFF) Duras'
heir.
5) The really old Klingons we've seen have extremely heavy and large
ridges, eg Korrd (STV:TFF), K'Empec, and Kor, Kang, and Koloth as seen in
DS9's "Blood Oath".
It should also be pointed out that this does not necessarily mean that all
Klingons have the same sized crests, even in maturity, and that different
Klingons' crests might not grow at different speeds.
Therefore, for example, although Kruge's crest in STIII:TSFS is no larger
than Worf's in TNG season 1, this does not necessarily mean that they are
the same age.
The basic problem remains, however, why the Klingons in TOS and TAS had no
ridges at all, especially since they are all obviously significantly
older than Alexander and the children in "Birthright", and since three of
these Klingons later re-appeared with well-developed ridges. Another clue
is Worf's line in "Trials and Tribble-ations" that this is NOT something
that Klingons talk about.
The solution that I profer is that either the TOS/TAS Klingons were
injected with an agent that retarded or stopped their crest growth (or,
less likely, reversed it) or that they were surgically altered (like Kirk,
Picard, and Troi were to pass as Romulans). Either (or possibly a
combination of both) of these methods could have been used to render the
Klingons ridgeless a la TOS/TAS.
Why this would have been done is a matter of speculation. Most of the
other theories advanced about human/Klingon "fusions" still work.
They could have done this in order to pass off as humans in order to
infiltrate the Federation. Perhaps Worf's discomfort in "Trials" was at
the thought of Klingons stooping to such a low tactic.
It also could have had something to do with fashion (and yes, Klingons
ARE vain... consider the Ambassador's party in STVI:TUC), but I also
question this... surely it would be more in keeping with Klingon psyche to
want the BIGGEST ridges rather than the smallest? (OTOH, this could be
the very reason that Worf was so reluctant to talk about it)
It may also have been something factional; a physical, tangible break with
(presumably) more traditional, more conservative Klingons. This would
probably have been shocking, and even obscene to other Klingons... a
bodily rejection of Klingon heritage. Either Kor, Kang, and Koloth
belonged to this faction, or their parents did.
In any case, once the need for being ridgeless disappeared, Klingons who
had been so altered either stopped taking their anti-ridge formula and
grew ridges as normal, or were given an antidote that negated the
ridge-stopper. Thus Kor, Kang, Koloth et al would get their ridges. Maybe
they even had a ridge-accelarator which made up for lost time. If surgery
was involved, then more surgery could reverse what had been done.
Kahless must also be mentioned here. When first presented in TOS' "The
Savage Curtain", he was ridgeless, but when appearing in TNG has a ridge.
The explanation for this is simple, and actually independent of the above.
"The Savage Curtain" Kahless was drawn from Kirk's mind, and from his
mental image of what Kahless should look like, just like Abraham Lincoln
was. Kahless "really" had ridges, but Kirk didn't visualize him like that.
Whether at this stage Kirk had ever even seen a ridged Klingon is not
certain.
COLLIN FREEMAN
Ruediger Landmann wrote:
> Klingon skull ridges have caused headaches since their first
> appearance in ST:TMP nearly 20 years ago. Here's a theory which I believe
> fits all the available facts as presented so far.
>
> The basic premise that I proceed from is that Klingon ridges grow
> heavier and more elaborate as Klingons age.
So you're saying that Klingon ridges are like gray hairs or going bald?
Interesting (or perhaps "fascinating" is more appropriate).
This is evidenced by:
>
> 1) Worf's ridges grow bigger and heavier during the course of TNG and DS9
> episodes (9 years of screen time).
>
> 2) Alexander has small ridges, but when we see a future version of him in
> "Firstborn" (TNG, season 7) his ridge is far more developed.
>
> 3) The young Klingons in "Birthright" (TNG, season 7) all have small
> ridges.
>
> 4) Adolescent Klingons have medium-sized ridges, eg. Klaa (STV:TFF) Duras'
> heir.
>
> 5) The really old Klingons we've seen have extremely heavy and large
> ridges, eg Korrd (STV:TFF), K'Empec, and Kor, Kang, and Koloth as seen in
> DS9's "Blood Oath".
Actually, the Klingons in Star Trek:TMP had the most prominent ridges of
any Klingon we've seen. In fact, you could almost view them as being
different from the Klingons from Star Trek III on (Oh, No! Don't want
to go there!)
> Why this would have been done is a matter of speculation. Most of the
> other theories advanced about human/Klingon "fusions" still work.
Except, as someone else has pointed out, Kor, Kang, and Koloth did not
have ridges in the original series, but they did in DS9, which is why
your theory is so much better! I hated that episode anyway. Why would
there be any old Klingons? Especially if they are true warriors. They
should have died long before the time of DS9.
_______________________________________________________
Collin Freeman, Pharm.D., BCPS
UMKC School of Medicine,
2411 Holmes St., M5-307,
Kansas City, MO 64108
Ph: (816) 235-1953, Fax: (816) 235-5194
James Grady Ward
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us wrote:
>
> The most plausible reason for the forehead difference is that the
> klingon race was altered by the Hurk. The Hurk invaded the Klingon
> homeworld and stole the sword of Kahless along with other artifacts.
> As punishment for the klingon resistace they encountered, the Hurk
> gave the klingons a mark of shame that they would remember long after
> the invasion ended. This mark was the removal of the Klingon
> forehead. The Hurk shut off the forehead gene(s) that gave Klingons
> bumpy foreheads. With the gene turned off klingons and their
> decendants would have smooth foreheads. Between the end of TOS and
> Star Trek 1 klingon geneticists figured out how to turn the gene back
> on. This made klingons and their decendants look like klingons from
> kahless's time. The reason they do not like to talk about it is
> because they are still ashamed of the fact that they were unable to
> defeat the Hurk.
>
> Rylan
interesting theory and even makes some sense, but why
post it to the newsgroup 7 or 8 times?
Tim Finnemore
I thought it would be a simple discussion 1 or 2 days tops, who would have
known??
thanks to all who had original ideas and those who shared others versions,
I don't go for the tos Klingons being altered to look more human.. it just
doesn't work for me.... The allergic reaction to tribbles I like (KUZ I
HATE TRIBBLES) .... Thanks again ...........
David Warren <wx...@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA> wrote in article
<E5GyD...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca>...
> In a previous article, stro...@nrcan.gc.ca ("Steve Robertson") says:
> >Tim Finnemore <ci_...@paradox.net> wrote in article
> ><01bc1367$a7667440$340770cf@ci_sys>...
> >> I was just watching TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES (tos) and the Klingons were
> >very
> >> The Best and Worst os STAR TREK is here =>
Banzai and Carey
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us wrote:
>
> The most plausible reason for the forehead difference is that the
> klingon race was altered by the Hurk. The Hurk invaded the Klingon
> homeworld and stole the sword of Kahless along with other artifacts.
> As punishment for the klingon resistace they encountered, the Hurk
> gave the klingons a mark of shame that they would remember long after
> the invasion ended. This mark was the removal of the Klingon
> forehead. The Hurk shut off the forehead gene(s) that gave Klingons
> bumpy foreheads. With the gene turned off klingons and their
> decendants would have smooth foreheads. Between the end of TOS and
> Star Trek 1 klingon geneticists figured out how to turn the gene back
> on. This made klingons and their decendants look like klingons from
> kahless's time. The reason they do not like to talk about it is
> because they are still ashamed of the fact that they were unable to
> defeat the Hurk.
>
> Rylan
Best idea I've heard yet, but it doesn't explain why they are so proud
of their foreheads now. After all, one of the most powerful of all
Klingon curses is "Hab SoSwi' Quch!", or "You'r mother has a smooth
forehead!"
Could be they took this symbol of shame and embraced it instead as a
symbol of pride in their refusal to knuckle under to the Hurk.
(Interesting...then telling someone their mother's forehead was smooth
would then mean that their mother was a coward and a collaborator with
the enemy--a major insult to the family honor!).
Of course, nothing's official until the writer's say it is, and I still
believe that Worf's explanation of "It's an internal matter" is all
we'll ever officially hear on the subject.
bathl biHeghjaj!
Banzai
"Gotta get me one of those cool sig lines..."
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us
bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us
chsw...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
human-like klingons who were genetically engineered to more easily
infiltrate human space. One of the actors, though, says that klingons
have long lifespans in which their appearances change. Did Gene ever give
a definite answer to the switch?
Joseph W. Casey
Not if they were excellent warriors !
Makin
--
Col. Makin sutai-Cheghjihtah-Kasara MK| Cmdr Makin sutai-Cheghjihtah-Kasara
ra'wI', Mailed Glove Squadron | Interim Head of Security
Klingon Assault Group/KANADA | Klingon Imperial Diplomatic Corps
2Lt Joseph RoughRider Casey 467th Squadron, 349th Air Wing, 59th Ready Reserve
Ruediger Landmann
chsw...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu wrote:
: According to a trek tech book "Worlds of the Federation", It was the
: human-like klingons who were genetically engineered to more easily
: infiltrate human space. One of the actors, though, says that klingons
: have long lifespans in which their appearances change. Did Gene ever give
: a definite answer to the switch?
Legend has it that (around the time of ST:TMP) said that one race were
"northern" klingons, and the others were "southern" klingons. If this is
reported accurately, I think we should assume that he was joking.
:)
Dr. Feelgood
Umm...
Special FX technology has increased quite a bit since the 1960's and all
this discussion is really just revisionist history. The fact is - Klingons
always had the ridges, but when they couldn't get any klingon actors for
TOS they had to use guys in makeup. This could be a major reason for the
unrest between the klingon empire and the fed at that time, as you
couldn't pick much of a worse insult than to dress up a couple nancy-boy
humans in makeup and have them parade them around saying "I'm a great
klingon warrior" and getting beaten up by a chubby melodramatic
"Federation Captain".
sean maiorca
This is my theory, The produsers wanted the klingons to have big for heads
and a big baled spot
from the begining, but 1960's make up tech didn't alow for this so they
didn';'t have bumps.
but as make up tech got beter they have had more defined bumps.
And the line in the eposode of deep space 9 was a joke.
-Sean Maiorca
rar...@connectnet.com
- I think that the klingons inbreaded with another race that was really bumpy and had ridges all over so when the almost human looking klingons and the bumpy people inbreaded, they formed the klingons that we know today
- --Erick Rarick
Lars Ormberg
Banzai and Carey wrote:
>
> bach...@icc.it.cc.mn.us wrote:
> >
> > The most plausible reason for the forehead difference is that the
> > klingon race was altered by the Hurk. The Hurk invaded the Klingon
> > homeworld and stole the sword of Kahless along with other artifacts.
> > As punishment for the klingon resistace they encountered, the Hurk
> > gave the klingons a mark of shame that they would remember long after
> > the invasion ended. This mark was the removal of the Klingon
> > forehead. The Hurk shut off the forehead gene(s) that gave Klingons
> > bumpy foreheads. With the gene turned off klingons and their
> > decendants would have smooth foreheads. Between the end of TOS and
> > Star Trek 1 klingon geneticists figured out how to turn the gene back
> > on. This made klingons and their decendants look like klingons from
> > kahless's time. The reason they do not like to talk about it is
> > because they are still ashamed of the fact that they were unable to
> > defeat the Hurk.
> >
> > Rylan
>
> of their foreheads now. After all, one of the most powerful of all
> Klingon curses is "Hab SoSwi' Quch!", or "You'r mother has a smooth
> forehead!"
I agree, the Hurk theory has lots to it. It explains their evasion of
the change, but actually does explain their forehead pride. The fact
the the ancient Klingon forehead was returned to the Empire is a sign
for all Klingons at how they prevail, the power of their warriors. No
matter what you do to a Klingon, he'll manage to win in the end and
destroy your accomplishments.
I really do like that Hurk idea. It's got within it a lot of valuable
insight.
> Banzai
>
> "Gotta get me one of those cool sig lines..."
--
Lars Ormberg
(I don't know where Mr. T lives. Stop phoning my home)
la...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
__
The Commodore's webpage is bigger, badder, and more Java-packed than
ever before! Take a tour at http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/ and have
an experience only categorizable as Lars On-Line!
* The Borg--our most lethal enemy--have begun an invasion of the
Federation. The assimilation continues...STAR TREK:FIRST CONTACT is
still showing in theatres across the country. (Oh, and some Star Wars
thing is supposedly on as well. Like anybody cares).
Lars Ormberg
Ruediger Landmann wrote:
>
> chsw...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu wrote:
>
> : According to a trek tech book "Worlds of the Federation", It was the
> : human-like klingons who were genetically engineered to more easily
> : infiltrate human space. One of the actors, though, says that klingons
> : have long lifespans in which their appearances change. Did Gene ever give
> : a definite answer to the switch?
The Worlds of the Federation isn't very canon though.
> Legend has it that (around the time of ST:TMP) said that one race were
> "northern" klingons, and the others were "southern" klingons. If this is
> reported accurately, I think we should assume that he was joking.
It was accurate. He was joking.
> :)
Lars Ormberg
James Grady Ward wrote:
>
> >
> > Rylan
>
> interesting theory and even makes some sense, but why
> post it to the newsgroup 7 or 8 times?
It's pretty easy. If your ISP is slow, you can get a "unable to
communicate with server" message even after the message was posted.
Notice all of these posts are within a minute or two. It looks like he
just kept hitting "send" until his mail server recognized the message
got through.
> --
> buckysan: does anyone else like ani-mayhem?
>
> annapuma and unapumma in 96'
>
> " the realization that the pursuit of knowledge can be an
> end unto itself is the beginning and highest form of wisdom"
--
Banzai and Carey
Still doesn't explain why Kang, Kor, and Koloth were smooth-headed in
TOS and ridge-headed in DS-9. The best theory I've heard to date was
the one about the Herk (NOTE: I'm kind of picky about my spelling...if
I'm mispelling "Herk", would someone please let me know) altering their
genes (see previous posts for total explaination of the theory). I
STILL (capitalized for emphasis, not to shout) believe we will never get
an explaination from the powers-that-be at Star Trek creative HQ,
however. This is one that we'll just have to toss around in the
newsgroups.
batlh biHeghjaj!
vincent radford
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Jhen wrote:
> On 6 Feb 1997 03:10:05 GMT, "Kody Belshe" <ko...@sockets.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Unfortunately that theory can be shot down with the same three words
> as the previous one- Kang, Koloth and Kor.
>=20
> > Perhaps the answer is in the evolution of different species on differen=
t
> >continents on the Klingon Homeworld. Australia, for instance was seperat=
ed
> >from the rest of the Pangea for longer than other continents and as a
> >result it has very unique species of animals. Perhaps the
> >Ridged-forehead-Klingons were less evolved at the time of the Original S=
tar
> >Trek=99 and as they became aware of the Non-ridged-forehead Klingons on
> >another continent with their superior technology and space-flight
> >capabilities they decided to take it for themselves. Perhaps the thing W=
orf
> >"doesent want to talk about", is a war the ridged forheads to seize the
> >technology of the non-ridged heads. Perhaps after all of the technology =
was
> >siezed , the non-ridged-head Klingons were massacered. Well thats my
> >theory......I hope to hear more of everyone elses:)
That's actually a pretty good theory, but since the non-ridged Klingons
had the superior tech, it probably wasn't easy for the ridge heads to wipe
them out. What probably happened was an internal breakdown of the the more
evolved non ridges' goverment and society which allowed the ridge Klingons
to move in and seize power. Much like the Germanic barbarians were able to
topple the Roman Empire only when it had been collapsing within itself
for quite some time.
It's still a good theory!;)
Rico
klingons always had ridges the non ridged klingons in TOS were
surgically altered to infiltrate the federation
James Grady Ward
Rico wrote:
>
> klingons always had ridges the non ridged klingons in TOS were
> surgically altered to infiltrate the federation
this in the end is probably the only thing that can be used
to explain them and be consistant with all of the shows.
Alan Brain
I must respectfully disagree.
Consider: If Klingons were being bred/surgically altered to pass for
humans, who would be the LAST group to be in command of ships in
constant contact with humans? Surely the Klingons would not be so
brain-dead as to advertise their genetic or surgical products where the
Federation cannot possibly miss them?
This would be like Cpt Kirk being surgically altered to give him ridges
etc while he was in command of the Enetrprise on the Klingon border, in
th hope that the Klingons _wouldn't notice_ and he could somehow
infiltrate them later.
Sorry, this explanation is probably the lamest, least plausible one
solely for this reason. In all other ways, it fits.
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James Grady Ward
Alan Brain wrote:
>
> James Grady Ward wrote:
> >
> > Rico wrote:
> > >
> > > klingons always had ridges the non ridged klingons in TOS were
> > > surgically altered to infiltrate the federation
> >
> > this in the end is probably the only thing that can be used
> > to explain them and be consistant with all of the shows.
>
> I must respectfully disagree.
> Consider: If Klingons were being bred/surgically altered to pass for
> humans, who would be the LAST group to be in command of ships in
> constant contact with humans? Surely the Klingons would not be so
> brain-dead as to advertise their genetic or surgical products where the
> Federation cannot possibly miss them?
> This would be like Cpt Kirk being surgically altered to give him ridges
> etc while he was in command of the Enetrprise on the Klingon border, in
> th hope that the Klingons _wouldn't notice_ and he could somehow
> infiltrate them later.
> Sorry, this explanation is probably the lamest, least plausible one
> solely for this reason. In all other ways, it fits.
granted it is lame, but with what has been shown in the show
nothing else is going to fit everything we have seen. namely
the three klingon captains kirk fought with having ridges on
ds9 and kirk thinking that the tos klingons were the normal way
klingons looked. if they are surgically altered, that would in
no way change how much honor they hold within the empire, if
anything it would increase it since they would make such a sacrifice
for the empire. and considering how lame an idea it is, it could
even explain why worf did not want to discuss it:)
Rico
that was the explanation that was given in one of the ST books whose
title eludes me
Hilton Janfield
>I must respectfully disagree.
>Consider: If Klingons were being bred/surgically altered to pass for
>humans, who would be the LAST group to be in command of ships in
>constant contact with humans? Surely the Klingons would not be so
>brain-dead as to advertise their genetic or surgical products where the
>Federation cannot possibly miss them?
>This would be like Cpt Kirk being surgically altered to give him ridges
>etc while he was in command of the Enetrprise on the Klingon border, in
>th hope that the Klingons _wouldn't notice_ and he could somehow
>infiltrate them later.
>Sorry, this explanation is probably the lamest, least plausible one
>solely for this reason. In all other ways, it fits.
These are the most plausible explanations I've heard so far.
The second comes from a Star Trek EXPERT (and major Klingon fan)
1) Klingons got "attacked" by a virus which infected them all and made
the bones in their forehead grow.
2) Klingons genetically altered THEMSELVES so they wouldn't look like filthy
humans!!! :)
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James Meade
>klingons always had ridges the non ridged klingons in TOS were
>surgically altered to infiltrate the federation
R-R-R-R-R-Ruffles have r-r-r-r-r-ridges! ;-)
8==8 Bones3D 8==8
Baccchus 690
In article <01bc19ee$bdc13d00$4588...@denystr.nrcan.gc.ca>, "Steve
Robertson" <stro...@nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:
> A very interesting explanation. But how would that cover Klingon's who've
> made appearances in both TOS and DS9 and Voyager such as Kang, Koloth and
> Kor? In TOS, no bony ridges, but in their appearances in the 24th century,
> ridges and all.
>
> Just curious...
>
> -Steve-
>
This whole controversy originates with Berman, et. al. not acknowlegding
that to Roddenberry the Klingons always looked like Worf, but the budget
for the show in the 60's didn't allow the elaborate makeup. A note at the
beginning of the DS9 episode to the effect that in keeping with
Roddenberry's view, the audience should use it's imagination to see the
"old" Klingons with ridges.
--
"Dammit Jim, I'm a nethead, not a computer engineer!"
http://ctrost.simplenet.com/sf.html
John C.'s Sci-Fi/Space Fantasy Site
The Davis' of Rosehill
It has been mentioned several times in TNG that when the Klingons and The
Federation first met it was in space and the results of the meeting were
catostrophhic. Later, it was decided by the Feds to approach a planet that
was acquiring warp technology, and disguise themselves as locals and
infiltrate the society to gain information. This was seen as a better
alternative than a chance encounter in space. Perhaps, the Klingons used
this same general principle to deal with humans for a limited time, (until
sometime before ST TMP). They found the ruse useless and even dangerous
after a time, just as there Federation counterparts later did.
--
The Davis' of Rosehill
J. Dell Davis
"Do not attempt, or else accomplish"
James Meade <bon...@winternet.com> wrote in article
<bones3d-2202...@news.winternet.com>...
McReynolds
I see only two theories which fit all of the evidence. If anybody can
find any flaws with any of the two, tell me so I can remove it from the
list and finally settle this thing in my own mind, even if nobody else
agrees with me.
1.) There are simply two major races on Qo'noS. One race is born with
forhead ridges, while the other develops the ridges in later life. The
non-ridged group happened to be in power during the 2260s, but a
political overthrow resulted in the ridged ones taking control around
2270, just prior to TMP. Perhaps the ill-fated Amar mission was one of
the first ships sent out under the new administration, commanded by a
senior staff of ridged officers.
2.) The Klingons were surgically altered to appear human. After the
ruse was discovered (during the aforementioned Amar transmission [see
ST:TMP novelization]), those who had been altered were restored to
theiur original appearance. Basically, all Klingons sent to the border
used the same trick Kirk did back during "The Enterprise Incident"
(TOS).
Now for the discussion... you'll notice I didn't include the "fusion"
theory, even though at first glance it fits the facts. Why? Because
we've already seen "fusions" in K'Ehlyr and B'Elanna. They both have
muted ridges, but ridges none-the-less. There's no "tribble or virus
mutation" theories here either. Why? Kahless sports ridges even though
he was cloned from 1,500 years ago. And besides, this theory just seems
silly. :-)
I'm not sure which of the two fitting theories I prefer, since they both
fit the facts so well. The two-race theory has support from a few
novels, telling of the Bur Chak and Sta Mura races and their struggles,
but the alteration theory seems to be more of an "embarassment" so as to
discourage Worf from talking about it. After all, the Klingon proverb
goes 'ang'eghQo' quv Hutlhbogh jagh neH ghobtaHvIS ghaH: Only an enemy
without honor refuses to show himself in battle. Klingons hiding their
true nature seems a bit dishonorable to me, so of course Worf would be
embarassed at the disgrace to his people. So I really don't know!
-mIqIraH
GeneK
McReynolds wrote:
>
> I'm not sure which of the two fitting theories I prefer, since they both
> fit the facts so well. The two-race theory has support from a few
> novels, telling of the Bur Chak and Sta Mura races and their struggles,
> but the alteration theory seems to be more of an "embarassment" so as to
> discourage Worf from talking about it.
Unfortunately, neither theory explains why no one in the 24th century
Starfleet seems to remember that the Klingons ever looked different....
Gene