Kirk's taste in women
Laura Goodwin
Reyna of _Requiem for Methuselah_ is an example. She's beautiful,
elegant, super-intelligent, and apparently rich - the only woman on her
lonely world, queen of all she surveys. Too bad she was only an
android, or that might have really been something.
Here's the short list of other women Kirk loved:
Miramanee: High priestess of an Indianlike tribe whom he marries.
Edith Keeler: Ladylike and farsighted "slum angel", a respected savior
and peace activist.
The Dolman of Elaas: Royal princess forced to marry for political
reasons who sheds magical tears that chemically ensnare Kirk's heart.
(I'm not sure whether to count this one).
Janice Lester: Psychotic ex-lover who apparently is a brilliant
scientist, who inspired amazing loyalty in her henchman.
Kirk is attracted to intelligent, professional women. In _the Wrath of
Khan_ we meet Dr. Carol Marcus, brilliant scientist and mother of Kirk's
equally brilliant son, David.
We learn little about "Ruth" (shore leave), but she's obviously not a
slut. We hear of a "little blond lab technician" he almost married. Is
that Ruth? Or possibly Carol Marcus?
We do not see or hear Antonia in _Generations_, but Kirk is cooking and
serving her breakfast in bed when we first learn of her. Hmm! Not
exactly the bonk 'em with a club and drag 'em to your cave by the hair
type, is he!?
I'm not counting women he only fucked or might have, like the whore in
_Bread and circuses_ or Lt. Marlena in _Mirror, mirror_. Sex and love
are not the same thing.
Laura Goodwin
DragonGrrl
Laura Goodwin wrote:
> Look, Kirk goes most batty for women who are superior in some way.
Dunno... I'd have to say that, given the time period in which the show was
made, it probably suffered from the standard Amazon syndrome that Marion
Zimmer Bradley once complained about in a book introduction (I think it was
her, but I don't remember which book). Essentially, whenever a strong female
character appeared in a fantasy novel, she would be the epitome of the
'Amazon warrior'-- tall, muscular, wearing metal, with a stiff upper lip and
a cold heart-- and her primary reason for existence was to be reduced to a
snivelling, weepy, ineffectual mess by falling in love with the hero (or
sometimes even to be blatantly conquered by being raped by him). If a male
author didn't like strong women who didn't know their place, he would write
a story where his hero gets to turn one into a 'real woman' rather than the
pseudo-man she was pretending to be.
That was what bothered me about a few of Kirk's romances. Elaan was the
worst-- she was a woman who controlled any man who got close to her, but
Kirk refused to kneel to her and showed her to be a whimpering child
underneath, rather than a truly strong leader.
Of course, fiction is meant to be reinterpreted by different generations,
and if today we want to say that Kirk just had a thing about women who were
potentially superior to him, then by all means. We could turn him into quite
the enlightened and kinky romantic hero for the 21st century. ~_^ Next
target: James Bond...
--Brenda
James Winter
Forget it. Bond's a lost cause, although Sophie Marceau wasn't a bimbo in
"The World Is Not Enough." Still, any man who'd chase a woman named "Pussy
Galore" probably isn't putting too much thought into what he wants out of
female companionship.
--
J
USS Alliance - http://w3.one.net/~tribeguy/alliance/allhome.htm
"Ziggy played sitar, jiving us that he was Hindu"
Laura Goodwin
> That was what bothered me about a few of Kirk's romances. Elaan was the
> worst-- she was a woman who controlled any man who got close to her, but
> Kirk refused to kneel to her
Are you kidding!? The first thing he did was kneel for her! LOL
Laura Goodwin
>
> <<<Next target: James Bond...>>>
> ...Still, any man who'd chase a woman named "Pussy
> Galore" probably isn't putting too much thought into what he wants out of
> female companionship.
With a name like Pussy Galore he probably doesn't have to chase her! ;)
DragonGrrl
Laura Goodwin wrote:
> Are you kidding!? The first thing he did was kneel for her! LOL
*blink blink* Don't tell me I'm losing my status as a sad fan... I can't keep
episode details straight anymore...
All I remember is him refusing to kneel, but now that you mention it I guess
he did give in. Ah well, it ended the same way, anyways.
--Brenda
Gamin Davis
<3A82C224...@altavista.net>:
>Here's the short list of other women Kirk loved:
>Miramanee: High priestess of an Indianlike tribe whom he marries.
Hardly intelligent or professional, but then, Kirk had amnesia, so he
wouldn't remember *what* type he was normally attracted to.
>Edith Keeler: Ladylike and farsighted "slum angel", a respected savior
>and peace activist.
Arguably also the love of his life. I have a feeling this is the one
he would have voluntarily married if they'd met under other circumstances.
>The Dolman of Elaas: Royal princess forced to marry for political
>reasons who sheds magical tears that chemically ensnare Kirk's heart.
>(I'm not sure whether to count this one).
I wouldn't. He wasn't ever really "attracted" to her, he was just
affected by her tears. (Remember his attitude toward her prior to that.)
>We learn little about "Ruth" (shore leave), but she's obviously not a
>slut. We hear of a "little blond lab technician" he almost married. Is
>that Ruth? Or possibly Carol Marcus?
A story in one of the ST comics (yeah, not canon, I know) assumed it
to be Carol Marcus.
>We do not see or hear Antonia in _Generations_, but Kirk is cooking and
>serving her breakfast in bed when we first learn of her. Hmm! Not
>exactly the bonk 'em with a club and drag 'em to your cave by the hair
>type, is he!?
No, although I found it hard to identify with Antonia, mainly because
we'd never seen or heard of her before (Are you sure she wasn't seen? I
have a photo of her. Maybe that scene was cut?). I think that whole thing
would have meant more if they'd brought back somebody we knew--Gillian
Taylor, for example, although she's no Edith Keeler, would have been
better, IMO.
>I'm not counting women he only fucked or might have, like the whore in
>_Bread and circuses_ or Lt. Marlena in _Mirror, mirror_. Sex and love
>are not the same thing.
But you still left out some. Where's Areel Shaw, the lawyer from
"Court-Martial"? Dr. Jan Wallace from "The Deadly Years"? Or for that
matter, Uhura? I for one think he had some kind of relationship going with
her. How about Miri, although she may not count as a "woman"? I have a
feeling there are others I'm not remembering myself.
Gamin
Laura Goodwin
>
> But you still left out some. Where's Areel Shaw, the lawyer from
> "Court-Martial"? Dr. Jan Wallace from "The Deadly Years"? Or for that
> matter, Uhura? I for one think he had some kind of relationship going with
> her. How about Miri, although she may not count as a "woman"? I have a
> feeling there are others I'm not remembering myself.
> Gamin
http://lauragoodwin.org/kirkgirls.html <--
:)
Laura Goodwin
For your convenience, here is the text file version:
~ Kirk's Close Encounters (TOS) ~
"The "Little Blonde Lab Technician" [Where no man has gone Before]
Indeterminate. Possibly this is a reference to Carol Marcus. If so, this
was a definite sexual relationship. If not, maybe not.
Eve McHuron [Mudd's Women] No. They didn't do anything, really.
Yeoman Rand [The Enemy Within] No. His evil half molested her. He didn't
succeed. They never apparently had sex, but there was an attraction.
"Andrea" [What are little girls made of?] No. An android. They kissed,
that's it.
Dr. Helen Noel [Dagger of the Mind] No. Helen has to remind Kirk that
they met before at a crew Christmas party. There was apparently some
kind of flirting and talk about the stars, but that's how far it went.
No doubt alcohol was involved. He seemed a little embarrassed by it.
Miri [Miri] No! The kid was only infatuated with him. Join the club,
kid!
Lenore Karidian [Conscience of the King] They flirted and kissed, that's
it. Crazy Evil Bitch.
Areel Shaw [Court Martial] Maybe they dated, but we were given no
compelling reason to believe they had ever had sex. They were friends.
Yeoman Helen Johannson [Court Martial] :::shrug::: No. What? Nothing!
"She simply mentioned that she *knew* you..." When you are famous,
everybody knows you.
"Ruth" [Shore Leave] No. Not really human, not really Ruth. Maybe that
was an unrequited love affair he was fantasizing about. No real reason
to believe they ever had sex. Maybe she was the "lab technician".
Apparently a nice lady.
Edith Keeler [City on the Edge of Forever] No. They definitely were in
love, but no sign that they ever passed first base. She sure was a nice
lady. OTOH, this is one of those episodes were Spock and Kirk shared a
bedroom. Things that make you go, "Hmm!"
Dr. Janice Wallice [The Deadly Years] :::shrug::: nothing much there
either.
Lt. Marlena Moreau [Mirror, Mirror] Honor roll. Spicy possibilities
strongly hinted at, some kissing, that's it. Hot, hot, hot! But no.
Drusilla [Bread and Circuses] BINGO! TOS canon. A whore. They definitely
had sex, and that's it. Not a love affair. "I was told I am to be your
slave tonight..." Lucky slave! Come to think of it, lucky Kirk! "Nice
jails they have around here!" Kirk thinks, "I'll stay awhile!"
Nona [A Private Little War] No. She was working on him though. Evil
Bitch.
Drill Thrall Shana [The Gamesters of Triskelion] Honor roll. Damn
near...sure looked like a situation where sex was prevented only by the
script, the censors and time slot. There was strong mutual attraction,
expressive and probing gazes deep into one another's eyes, Kirk waxing
passionately eloquent, skin to skin contact, kissing, heavy breathing,
urgent hugging, everything except a fadeout and an obvious time
lapse...so, no. But damn near! Something about the creak of his leather
harness and the electrifying crackle of her tinfoil bikini...:::biting
my own hand::: I really wish I could count this one.
"Kelinda" [By Any Other Name] No. Gimmee a break! Hints how far he might
go in the name of duty, though. Enemy Bitch. Refer Catspaw and Wink of
an Eye.
Elaan [Elaan of Troyius] This was a blue balls situation. They wanted to
but never had time. Bitch.
Miramanee [The Paradise Syndrome] BINGO and Double Bingo! TOS canon.
Kirok was legally married to Miramanee, and he knocked her up! They
definitely had sex, probably lots o times, and they had fun doing it,
too! "Each kiss is as the first..." She was a really nice lady.
:::sigh::: Primitive, but nice!
Dr. Miranda Jones [Is there in truth no Beauty?] No. Gimmee a break!
Ick.
Sylvia [Catspaw] Nope. They kissed and in the name of duty he tried to
seduce her. She got wise before he got lucky. Enemy Bitch. Refer Wink of
an Eye and By Any Other Name.
Uhura [Plato's Stepchildren] No, that was forced, and it was just a
kiss.
Deela [Wink of an Eye] BINGO! TOS canon. After a fadeout, we return to
see Kirk sitting on the bed donning his boots, while Deela primps. Kirk
seduces Enemy Bitch. Refer Catspaw and By Any Other Name.
Marta [Whom Gods Destroy] No. She was all over him like flies on meat,
but the feeling was not mutual. He did not like her at all. Nothing
happened. Crazy Enemy Bitch. He gave up on even thinking about seducing
her...too freaking unstable.
Odona [The Mark of Gideon] They kissed, I think that's it. She wasn't
really an enemy, nor a bitch, but she wasn't exactly honest with him,
either. What if the disease he gave her was VD? LOL! Then we might have
had something!
Vanna [The Cloudminders] No. Maybe they made a cute couple but they were
wrestling in bed because he caught her trying to knife him while he
slept.
"Rayna Kepec" [Requiem for Methuselah] An android, and they did not have
sex.
Dr. Janice Lester [Turnabout Intruder] BINGO! TOS canon. As sickening as
it is to contemplate, they were once apparently live-together lovers.
Sheesh, why couldn't they have found a prettier actress for that role?
It's so hard to see the two of them together...ick. Crazy Enemy Bitch.
Total TOScount: FOUR. That's right, only four of the thirty-one females
of various species who flung themselves at him for sure got any, and in
the case of Lester it was a thing of the past. Only three if you count
only the ones that happened during his TOS Enterprise days. Maybe we can
count a couple of those others if we squint a little (Shana and
Marlena), but I'll let you have those only if we can please drop Lester.
The big winner? *Miramanee*, who got to marry Kirk and live as his wife
and keep wigwam warm for him for a couple of months! Whooee! What a
lucky dame! And none of this silly, "Excuse me, but I have a starship to
run, au revoir!" bullshit - he didn't even remember the Enterprise!
Laura Goodwin
> > But you still left out some. Where's Areel Shaw, the lawyer from
> > "Court-Martial"? Dr. Jan Wallace from "The Deadly Years"? Or for that
> > matter, Uhura? I for one think he had some kind of relationship going with
> > her.
You are right, Uhura needs to be mentioned long enough to rule her out.
Kirk and Uhura did not have a thing going on. They were forced to kiss
against their will *once* by an enemy. FORCED. ONCE.
I'm not saying Kirk wouldn't have gone for her, I'm saying ~he's not
*her* type~!
Laura Goodwin
Laura Goodwin
I wrote:
> >Here's the short list of other women Kirk loved:
> >Miramanee: High priestess of an Indianlike tribe whom he marries.
>
> Hardly intelligent or professional, but then, Kirk had amnesia, so he
> wouldn't remember *what* type he was normally attracted to.
Well, if you want to get picky, she was the high priestess of a whole
tribe of primitive, non-college graduates. Nobody was a rocket
scientist in her home town, so why should we expect her to be? Among
her own people she was in a leadership role. Within that context and in
their eyes I'm sure she was exemplary.
This situation wasn't Kirk's choice. Also, (although you don't dispute
that he loved and MARRIED her) as you said, he wasn't himself. Thank
you. With her gone that's a shorter list, which actually helps me to
make my point. :)
Kirk was *not* a playboy who porked every female in sight. This is a
complete myth that's very wrong because it's a malignant distortion of
the truth. I'm tired of Kirk being portrayed as a guy with a phaser in
his hand and a new gal (with a beehive hairdo) on his arm every week.
Spock possibly got laid as much as Kirk did, but do people call him a
playboy? No, they don't.
Kirk does not go for bimbos, and he does not pork one new girl every
episode. He was shown to be capable of love and commitment. We saw him
flirt a lot, but he fell in love only a couple of times, and he was not
always getting laid. He pushed women away more often than he embraced
them. All the evidence anyone needs for proof is available for your
viewing pleasure.
Many of the things people (including me) like to think about Captain
Kirk are their own fantasies, which have little support in canon
materials. Sure, it's canon that Kirk has a reputation of being a
ladykiller, but a person can get a reputation without having done much
to deserve it, as may be seen.
Men fantasize about what they would do if they were Kirk. If they were
as attractive to women, they would run barefoot through all the lovelies
who lined up. That's what THEY would do.
Lots of women are attracted to Kirk, but that doesn't mean he welcomes
their attention. He sometimes uses seduction as a way of getting a leg
up on an enemy woman, but that's just using one of his assets as a
weapon in a tough situation.
Kirk likes to flirt, likes to dance with women, so what? So what? How
many times have you flirted or danced where nothing ever came of it?
Never? Every time you flirt or dance with somebody, you automatically
next take a tumble? Really!? Even if that is just a given with you,
it's not that way with most people. Most flirtation never comes to
anything. Most flirtation is as safe as milk.
When you are very attractive, and when on top of that you have status
and power, you get a lot of offers. You get enough offers, until you
get sick of them. Kirk is the kind of guy who is *not hungry* for
attention. He gets plenty. He's NOT DESPERATE. Therefore, he doesn't
act desperate, except in those rare cases where he honestly feels strong
desire for a particular, special, adored woman. Those rare women are
not bimbos. They are outstanding in some way, and often in several
ways. That's my assertion.
Listing the women he appeared with on camera proves nothing except that
everybody wanted center stage.
Laura Goodwin
Laura Goodwin
> But you still left out some. Where's Areel Shaw, the lawyer from
> "Court-Martial"? Dr. Jan Wallace from "The Deadly Years"? Or for that
> matter, Uhura?
All these gals fit the pattern. All intelligent, respectable
professional women. Speaking of Shaw, they may have had a fling in the
past, but they considered themselves and called themselves friends.
Maybe that's all they really ever were! I'm not saying nothing could
have happened, I'm just saying we have no proof anything did.
Kirk calls Spock a friend too: his best friend. If being friends with
Kirk automatically means you had sex with him, then, that's one point
for the K/S crowd. :) I can't believe people who can't believe Kirk
really could just have women friends!
> How about Miri, although she may not count as a "woman"?
What about her? What? The grubby, ignorant, unwashed *child* ~was~
300+ years old, so I guess technically she was of the age of consent,
and she did plainly have a crush on Kirk, as everybody noticed. Are you
insinuating he therefore had sex with her? That they had a love
affair? Kirk himself said he doesn't go for older women! ;)
Bill Rhodes
>
> http://lauragoodwin.org/kirkgirls.html <--
>
> :)
Great list! I have to totally disagree with you about this:
>Lt. Marlena Moreau [Mirror, Mirror] Honor roll. Spicy possibilities
>strongly hinted at, some kissing, that's it. Hot, hot, hot! But no.
No way...Kirk definitely hit that! Kirk is a real man, and no
man could have resisted her charms, even Kirk!
I agree with the rest of the list though.
Bill
Jeff Troutman
> <<<Next target: James Bond...>>>
>
> Forget it. Bond's a lost cause, although Sophie Marceau wasn't a bimbo in
> "The World Is Not Enough." Still, any man who'd chase a woman named
"Pussy
> Galore" probably isn't putting too much thought into what he wants out of
> female companionship.
>
In the movies, he definitely comes off that way. In the books, he is
putting some thought into what he wants, and it's pretty disturbng., IMO.
Jeff Troutman
James Winter
really an enemy, nor a bitch, but she wasn't exactly honest with him,
either. What if the disease he gave her was VD? LOL! Then we might have
had something! >>>
I've been writing Academy prequels to my original crew series, where Kirk is
featured heavily. Maybe I ought to have Kirk, Mitchell, along with my
future captain and chief engineer, brought before the Academy Commandant,
who says, "Boys, I'm a little concerned about your behavior. And quite
frankly, so are half the women on this campus. I'd like you all to watch a
little film to put it in perspective." Anyone remember the "Social Disease"
segment (with Carrie Fisher) from "Amazon Women on the Moon" (Half of whom
I'm sure Kirk dated.)?
--
J
USS Alliance - http://w3.one.net/~tribeguy/alliance/allhome.htm
"Ziggy played sitar, jiving us that he was Hindu"
Brad Filippone
: Look, Kirk goes most batty for women who are superior in some way.
: elegant, super-intelligent, and apparently rich - the only woman on her
: lonely world, queen of all she surveys. Too bad she was only an
: android, or that might have really been something.
: Here's the short list of other women Kirk loved:
: Miramanee: High priestess of an Indianlike tribe whom he marries.
: Edith Keeler: Ladylike and farsighted "slum angel", a respected savior
: and peace activist.
: The Dolman of Elaas: Royal princess forced to marry for political
: reasons who sheds magical tears that chemically ensnare Kirk's heart.
: (I'm not sure whether to count this one).
The above three Kirk indeed comes to love, though in Elaan's case it was a
chemically induced love, so it douens't really count as you suggest.
: Janice Lester: Psychotic ex-lover who apparently is a brilliant
: scientist, who inspired amazing loyalty in her henchman.
: Kirk is attracted to intelligent, professional women. In _the Wrath of
: Khan_ we meet Dr. Carol Marcus, brilliant scientist and mother of Kirk's
: equally brilliant son, David.
: We learn little about "Ruth" (shore leave), but she's obviously not a
: slut. We hear of a "little blond lab technician" he almost married. Is
: that Ruth? Or possibly Carol Marcus?
It is doubtful that Kirk really loved these three. Rather they were
'flings' he once had (You can add Areel Shaw to the list too). Of course,
they are affairs of the past so it's difficult to say for sure, but I
suspect if he really loved one or more of them, he would have been
married. Why lose touch with someone you've fallen in love with if you
can help it? In Carols case we have a possible answer though, since Carol
made him promise to stay out of David's life.
: We do not see or hear Antonia in _Generations_, but Kirk is cooking and
: serving her breakfast in bed when we first learn of her. Hmm! Not
: exactly the bonk 'em with a club and drag 'em to your cave by the hair
: type, is he!?
He possibly loves her, but i's difficult to say for certain since we see
so litle of this relationship.
Brad
Brad Filippone
Gamin Davis
>>
>> But you still left out some. Where's Areel Shaw, the lawyer
>> from
>> "Court-Martial"? Dr. Jan Wallace from "The Deadly Years"? Or for
>> that matter, Uhura? I for one think he had some kind of relationship
>> going with her. How about Miri, although she may not count as a
>> "woman"? I have a feeling there are others I'm not remembering
>> myself.
Gamin
>:)
Laura, I'm just curious...any particular reason for all these
separate responses to the same *one* comment of mine? You couldn't
combine them all into one post? Just wondering.
Gamin
Laura Goodwin
> Laura, I'm just curious...any particular reason for all these
> separate responses to the same *one* comment of mine? You couldn't
> combine them all into one post? Just wondering.
Oh, I'm just impulsive. I send off something, then something else
occurs to me so I come back to it. I also don't often have a lot of
time to sit and compose a long article, so I send something quick when I
can. You had a lot in your letter.
Gamin Davis
>For your convenience, here is the text file version:
>~ Kirk's Close Encounters (TOS) ~
Okay, I think we're looking at different things, here...I was talking
about women with whom he did have or could have had serious relationships
with (IOW, more than sex or flirting), and you *seem* to be talking about
women he actually had sex with, so with that in mind...
>"The "Little Blonde Lab Technician" [Where no man has gone Before]
>Indeterminate. Possibly this is a reference to Carol Marcus. If so, this
>was a definite sexual relationship. If not, maybe not.
Agree.
>Eve McHuron [Mudd's Women] No. They didn't do anything, really.
Agree.
>Yeoman Rand [The Enemy Within] No. His evil half molested her. He didn't
>succeed. They never apparently had sex, but there was an attraction.
Definite attraction, at least on her part (ref. "Miri"); him I'm not
so sure about. Outside of "The Enemy Within", he usually seemed to be
trying to discourage her.
>"Andrea" [What are little girls made of?] No. An android. They kissed,
>that's it.
Right...
>Dr. Helen Noel [Dagger of the Mind] No. Helen has to remind Kirk that
>they met before at a crew Christmas party. There was apparently some
>kind of flirting and talk about the stars, but that's how far it went.
>No doubt alcohol was involved. He seemed a little embarrassed by it.
Yeah, she had to *suggest* that he "swept her off her feet and took
her to his quarters"; by her own admission, it really didn't happen that
way. I have the feeling she reads a lot of romance novels.
>Miri [Miri] No! The kid was only infatuated with him. Join the club,
>kid!
In this case, I was just thinking that he might have had some kind of
feelings for her, maybe paternal but certainly not sexual. She
*definitely* had a crush on him.
>Lenore Karidian [Conscience of the King] They flirted and kissed, that's
>it. Crazy Evil Bitch.
He admitted that he was "using" her, although I tend to give him the
benefit of the doubt and assume he would not have taken it that far. I
think she was definitely crazy --not "evil" but perhaps deluded.
>Areel Shaw [Court Martial] Maybe they dated, but we were given no
>compelling reason to believe they had ever had sex. They were friends.
I tend to feel that they must have had some kind of reasonably mature
relationship (that may or may not have included sex), or they wouldn't
still be friends.
>Yeoman Helen Johannson [Court Martial] :::shrug::: No. What? Nothing!
>"She simply mentioned that she *knew* you..." When you are famous,
>everybody knows you.
No--not enough information on that one to tell.
>"Ruth" [Shore Leave] No. Not really human, not really Ruth. Maybe that
>was an unrequited love affair he was fantasizing about. No real reason
>to believe they ever had sex. Maybe she was the "lab technician".
>Apparently a nice lady.
From her manner and dress, I would tend to agree. If she appeared in
"Shore Leave" exactly the same as when Kirk knew her, she was probably
older than Kirk at the time--maybe she was a tutor or teacher that he
developed a crush on? I'm not sure they had sex, either.
>Edith Keeler [City on the Edge of Forever] No. They definitely were in
>love, but no sign that they ever passed first base. She sure was a nice
>lady. OTOH, this is one of those episodes were Spock and Kirk shared a
>bedroom. Things that make you go, "Hmm!"
No, Kirk would have had to conform to the morals of the time while he
was there (I assume, or he would have aroused suspicions). I mention her
because she seems to be the one he loved the most deeply--I wasn't saying
they had sex. As for Spock and Kirk sharing a bedroom, that was probably a
matter of convenience. They may not have had enough money for two rooms,
and she only offered them one. Also, I personally think Kirk thought Spock
would be likely to get himself in trouble in that time period if he spent
too much time on his own. ;^)
>Dr. Janice Wallice [The Deadly Years] :::shrug::: nothing much there
>either.
I find it to be similar to his relationship with Areel Shaw. They're
still friends, so they must have had a fairly decent relationship, broken
up only by conflicting career paths. Whether or not it included sex is, of
course, up in the air.
>Lt. Marlena Moreau [Mirror, Mirror] Honor roll. Spicy possibilities
>strongly hinted at, some kissing, that's it. Hot, hot, hot! But no.
Don't forget once he was back in his own universe, he immediately
started to strike up a "friendship" with that Marlena, although whether or
not anything came of the attempt is purely a matter of speculation. As for
Mirror Marlena--no, I think the episode made clear there wasn't really
*time*, although it's apparent she tried to seduce him into it. Apparently
our Kirk treated her considerably better than she was used to being treated
by Mirror Kirk, which *may* have had something to do with it.
>Drusilla [Bread and Circuses] BINGO! TOS canon. A whore. They definitely
>had sex, and that's it. Not a love affair. "I was told I am to be your
>slave tonight..." Lucky slave! Come to think of it, lucky Kirk! "Nice
>jails they have around here!" Kirk thinks, "I'll stay awhile!"
Implied, but not IMO definite. He *could* have simply "fallen asleep"
after some intense hugging and kissing. Just because *she* was used as a
whore by Claudius doesn't mean Kirk felt like taking full avantage of his
"offer". I have a feeling he was too distracted by worries about Spock and
McCoy to be able to give his full attention to her, anyway, and he never
did trust Claudius Marcus' motivations.
>Nona [A Private Little War] No. She was working on him though. Evil
>Bitch.
Agree. If that Mugato hadn't interrupted them at the waterfall, it
might have been different, though.
>Drill Thrall Shana [The Gamesters of Triskelion] Honor roll. Damn
>near...sure looked like a situation where sex was prevented only by the
>script, the censors and time slot. There was strong mutual attraction,
>expressive and probing gazes deep into one another's eyes, Kirk waxing
>passionately eloquent, skin to skin contact, kissing, heavy breathing,
>urgent hugging, everything except a fadeout and an obvious time
>lapse...so, no. But damn near! Something about the creak of his leather
>harness and the electrifying crackle of her tinfoil bikini...:::biting
>my own hand::: I really wish I could count this one.
In a lot of ways, Shahna was a child, and I think Kirk would have felt
like he was taking too many liberties if he had really had sex with her, so
I have to agree there, too. But there was a mutual attraction.
>"Kelinda" [By Any Other Name] No. Gimmee a break! Hints how far he might
>go in the name of duty, though. Enemy Bitch. Refer Catspaw and Wink of
>an Eye.
Except in "Wink of an Eye", it was *strongly hinted* that Kirk and
Deela had sex--the whole purpose of the Scalosians being on the Enterprise
was for them to find mates, if you recall, and there was That Scene of Kirk
getting dressed and her brushing her hair. Kelinda was too new to the
concept of love, so I don't think Kirk would have had sex with her during
the time covered by the episode, anyway.
>Elaan [Elaan of Troyius] This was a blue balls situation. They wanted to
>but never had time. Bitch.
I still don't think Kirk was *ever* attracted to her, except for the
influence of the chemical in her tears. Whether *she* wanted to is up in
the air--I kind of thought she was using her tears to basically get him to
do her bidding. So no, I wouldn't include this one.
>Miramanee [The Paradise Syndrome] BINGO and Double Bingo! TOS canon.
>Kirok was legally married to Miramanee, and he knocked her up! They
>definitely had sex, probably lots o times, and they had fun doing it,
>too! "Each kiss is as the first..." She was a really nice lady.
>:::sigh::: Primitive, but nice!
And I did a sequel to *that* episode, too. Yes, canonical and all
that. Can't argue with that one; even if he'd lost his memory, he was
clearly happy with her, so I would be inclined to include this one.
>Dr. Miranda Jones [Is there in truth no Beauty?] No. Gimmee a break!
>Ick.
Er, I agree--no--the one "romantic" scene they had was a ruse by Kirk
to distract her from sensing what Spock was doing. And after her
questionable behavior toward Spock, especially after he saw the
Medusan...no. I can't see it.
>Sylvia [Catspaw] Nope. They kissed and in the name of duty he tried to
>seduce her. She got wise before he got lucky. Enemy Bitch. Refer Wink of
>an Eye and By Any Other Name.
At least Deela had the excuse of being desperate to find a source of
continuing the line, since they couldn't do it themselves. Sylvia, no.
Enemy bitch, indeed.
>Uhura [Plato's Stepchildren] No, that was forced, and it was just a
>kiss.
And no time for it, anyway--I think the Platonians had too much on
their agenda for that "performance". However, I always noted that they all
appeared to be matched up correctly. (Obviously does not apply if you're a
K/S fan, of course.)
>Deela [Wink of an Eye] BINGO! TOS canon. After a fadeout, we return to
>see Kirk sitting on the bed donning his boots, while Deela primps. Kirk
>seduces Enemy Bitch. Refer Catspaw and By Any Other Name.
Right.
>Marta [Whom Gods Destroy] No. She was all over him like flies on meat,
>but the feeling was not mutual. He did not like her at all. Nothing
>happened. Crazy Enemy Bitch. He gave up on even thinking about seducing
>her...too freaking unstable.
No, I don't think so, either. Garth-as-Spock interrupted them just as
she was about to have her way with him, and he kept her on a short leash
after that.
>Odona [The Mark of Gideon] They kissed, I think that's it. She wasn't
>really an enemy, nor a bitch, but she wasn't exactly honest with him,
>either. What if the disease he gave her was VD? LOL! Then we might have
>had something!
Unless *that* was the way they planned to keep Kirk supplying the
virus that they needed to curb the population. I don't think so, either,
but that was a very weird episode.
>Vanna [The Cloudminders] No. Maybe they made a cute couple but they were
>wrestling in bed because he caught her trying to knife him while he
>slept.
Agree.
>"Rayna Kepec" [Requiem for Methuselah] An android, and they did not have
>sex.
Nope. No time, as far as I could tell.
>Dr. Janice Lester [Turnabout Intruder] BINGO! TOS canon. As sickening as
>it is to contemplate, they were once apparently live-together lovers.
>Sheesh, why couldn't they have found a prettier actress for that role?
>It's so hard to see the two of them together...ick. Crazy Enemy Bitch.
I'm confused here...where did you get the idea they were live-in
lovers? I have the episode, and I don't remember it ever being stated that
they lived together, just that they had a relationship just deep enough to
get on each others' nerves. I don't see this as being canon.
>Total TOScount: FOUR. That's right, only four of the thirty-one females
>of various species who flung themselves at him for sure got any, and in
>the case of Lester it was a thing of the past. Only three if you count
>only the ones that happened during his TOS Enterprise days. Maybe we can
>count a couple of those others if we squint a little (Shana and
>Marlena), but I'll let you have those only if we can please drop Lester.
See above. Drop her. I don't think they necessarily *had* a sexual
relationship. Since it looks like it would be more much hate than love, I
can't see Kirk taking it that far. (My count is 2.)
>The big winner? *Miramanee*, who got to marry Kirk and live as his wife
>and keep wigwam warm for him for a couple of months! Whooee! What a
>lucky dame! And none of this silly, "Excuse me, but I have a starship to
>run, au revoir!" bullshit - he didn't even remember the Enterprise!
Yep. Aside from dreams of "the strange lodge which moves through the
sky".
Gamin
Gamin Davis
>You are right, Uhura needs to be mentioned long enough to rule her out.
>Kirk and Uhura did not have a thing going on. They were forced to kiss
>against their will *once* by an enemy. FORCED. ONCE.
>I'm not saying Kirk wouldn't have gone for her, I'm saying ~he's not
>*her* type~!
That's not the impression *I* get from the looks they exchange on the
Bridge. I'm not saying that it's sexual, but I still think they have
*some* kind of more-than-professional relationship.
Gamin
Gamin Davis
<2A%g6.46805$k8.10...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>:
>>Lt. Marlena Moreau [Mirror, Mirror] Honor roll. Spicy possibilities
>>strongly hinted at, some kissing, that's it. Hot, hot, hot! But no.
>
>No way...Kirk definitely hit that! Kirk is a real man, and no
>man could have resisted her charms, even Kirk!
>I agree with the rest of the list though.
So the definition of a "real man" is one who has sex all the time? (No,
I won't go there.) My husband is a "real man", and he apparently finds her
resistable. ;^)
Gamin
Gamin Davis
>All these gals fit the pattern. All intelligent, respectable
>professional women. Speaking of Shaw, they may have had a fling in the
>past, but they considered themselves and called themselves friends.
>Maybe that's all they really ever were! I'm not saying nothing could
>have happened, I'm just saying we have no proof anything did.
>Kirk calls Spock a friend too: his best friend. If being friends with
>Kirk automatically means you had sex with him, then, that's one point
>for the K/S crowd. :) I can't believe people who can't believe Kirk
>really could just have women friends!
We seem to be having a mis-communication here--I was *never saying*
that Kirk *couldn't* have women friends without sex, nor was I trying to
imply that he *did* have sex with all the women I mentioned. See my other
responses on this.
>> How about Miri, although she may not count as a "woman"?
>What about her? What? The grubby, ignorant, unwashed *child* ~was~
>300+ years old, so I guess technically she was of the age of consent,
>and she did plainly have a crush on Kirk, as everybody noticed. Are you
>insinuating he therefore had sex with her? That they had a love
>affair? Kirk himself said he doesn't go for older women! ;)
No, no, no no...see above and see my other messages. I'm pretty sure
Kirk considered her a child, in fact, he said so at one point; I only
mentioned her because it looked like he might have had *some* feelings for
her. (I think he was sort of razzing Yeoman Rand, who I note was seen as a
rival by Miri.)
Gamin
James Winter
Oh, please! Next you'll be telling me that Octopussy was a sexual
reference.
James Winter
putting some thought into what he wants, and it's pretty disturbng., IMO.>>>
Fleming's books had a lot of disurbing things in them. Of course, he did
paint Bond as a sort of self-managed psychotic, all too aware of what he did
for a living. There was a reason to his boozing and womanizing, aside from
giving Sean Connery and Roger Moore a reason to smirk, get laid, and make a
slick movie. It seems to me that only since Dalton too over the role have
the movies managed to get across how seriously screwed in the head James
Bond is. If Bond ran into our heroes, I'm sure McCoy would turn to Kirk and
say, "Remember how I always tell you you need to quit trying to bag every
woman in every port? Well, forget I said it. You're nowhere near as bad as
this guy."
Gamin Davis
>Oh, I'm just impulsive. I send off something, then something else
>occurs to me so I come back to it. I also don't often have a lot of
>time to sit and compose a long article, so I send something quick when I
>can. You had a lot in your letter.
True, but I was responding to a rather long post, as I recall. It's
not a problem, I was just curious. :^)
Gamin
Laura Goodwin
http://lauragoodwin.org/uhura.html <-- My thoughts on the Uhura question
There was a lot of suggestive stuff in TOS, and the intent was to excite
our imaginations. TOS was intentionally titillating. They teased us
often with the possibilities. I'm like Kirk and Spock: I like to think
there are always possibilities.
Sure something could have happened. I never said we shouldn't imagine
that something could have happened. I like imagining things that could
have happened, myself.
Laura Goodwin
Laura Goodwin
So did Kirk, IMHO. I'm not saying he didn't think she was fuckable: of
course she was. I'm saying Kirk allowed her to believe he was her
Mirror-Kirk lover because he didn't trust her with the truth.
TOS was not the "Kirk Gets Laid" show. It wasn't about Kirk's sex
life. Kirk is not like James Bond, who actually does get laid by at
least one new woman every movie. People who assert that Kirk was an
intergalactic playboy can't offer convincing proof of their claim. All
they have is a few spicy hints to point at, combined with the fevered
productions of their own imaginations.
That's all K/Sers (people who like imagining Kirk and Spock are lovers)
have, too. I'd like PROOF that Kirk and Spock were lovers, but there
~ain't none~. I'm not going to stop writing K/S just because all the
evidence points to a powerful, passionate friendship, not a love
affair.
There is *proof* that Kirk was selective about his women, that he had a
definite type he preferred, and that he got laid very rarely. Where's
the *proof* that he was a tramp?
Captain Kirk is a decent fellow who likes nice ladies and gets laid only
rarely. That's my assertion.
There are a lot of people who like to think that Kirk got laid on every
show. That Kirk fucked every woman he met. I don't mind if they like
to think that, but they should know that such ideas are their own
imaginations at work.
Laura Goodwin
Laura Goodwin
> I can't believe people who can't believe Kirk
> >really could just have women friends!
>
> We seem to be having a mis-communication here--I was *never saying*
> that Kirk *couldn't* have women friends without sex
Yeah that remark of mine above wasn't directed at you personally. It's
more a complaint about the very common attitude that I've seen.
> >> How about Miri
> I'm pretty sure
> Kirk considered her a child, in fact, he said so at one point; I only
> mentioned her because it looked like he might have had *some* feelings for
> her.
Yes, of course it looked as though he might have had some feelings.
This is another case where, when Kirk is in a tough spot and he needs
something, he does what he has to to get it. Kirk pitied the girl, he
had compassion for her, but she was his link to the other (hostile)
children. He (and everybody) recognized that the girl had a crush on
him, and he manipulated the girl's feelings to convince her to cooperate
with him.
Kirk uses his own sexual charisma as a weapon several times in TOS. He
knows he's attractive: he has a mirror at home. He knows how desire can
be used to manipulate people, and when he is in a tough spot he uses
that knowledge to his own advantage.
Kirk let enemy women think there were possibilities, many times, but it
often was because it was a means to an end. Marlena was Mirror-Kirk's
girlfriend, not his. To him she was a mortal enemy, and he knew it. He
only went as far with it as he had to. Miri was a representative from
the enemy camp. He used her to get to the others. She betrayed his
trust and helped intensify the crisis, don't forget. She was no pal of
his.
Laura Goodwin
Final Frontier
>
> The above three Kirk indeed comes to love, though in Elaan's case it was a
> chemically induced love, so it douens't really count as you suggest.
Awww, c'mon! You gotta love anyone who can look you in the eye and say, "That
human custom called 'spanking,' what is it?"
> He possibly loves her, but i's difficult to say for certain since we see
> so litle of this relationship.
Well, he WAS just about to propose to her....
I love how she turned out to be a horse, though. "Message, Spock?"
Jeff Troutman
> <<<In the movies, he definitely comes off that way. In the books, he is
> putting some thought into what he wants, and it's pretty disturbng.,
IMO.>>>
>
> Fleming's books had a lot of disurbing things in them. Of course, he did
> paint Bond as a sort of self-managed psychotic, all too aware of what he
did
> for a living. There was a reason to his boozing and womanizing, aside
from
> giving Sean Connery and Roger Moore a reason to smirk, get laid, and make
a
> slick movie. It seems to me that only since Dalton too over the role have
> the movies managed to get across how seriously screwed in the head James
> Bond is.
I once loaned a copy of "Casino Royale" to a girl I knew who liked the films
and wanted to see what the books were like. It almost put her off the
entire franchise.
I agree with you about Moore, but something about Connery's portrayal hinted
at the book Bond, at least to me. Like there was something really cold
behind the smirk. I don't know if he was at all familiar with the books,
though.
Jeff Troutman
James Winter
hinted
at the book Bond, at least to me. Like there was something really cold
behind the smirk. I don't know if he was at all familiar with the books,
though.>>>
I'll give you that in Connery. Lazenby, Dalton, and especially Brosnan all
built on Connery's interpretation of Bond. Connery was the original
cold-blooded Bond. Hell, he was the original Bond (if you don't count the
forgettable 1950's TV adaptation of "Casino Royale", and I don't mean the
David Niven comedy. It was some CBS one shot deal.). I think Bond is
Kirk's total opposite. I've always interpreted Kirk as truly wanting most
of the women he was paired with, but simply kept away from them by his ship.
Bond, on the other hand, was trying to either drown his demons or remind
himself that he was still alive.
Jeff Troutman
> <<<I agree with you about Moore, but something about Connery's portrayal
> hinted
> at the book Bond, at least to me. Like there was something really cold
> behind the smirk. I don't know if he was at all familiar with the books,
> though.>>>
>
> I'll give you that in Connery. Lazenby, Dalton, and especially Brosnan
all
> built on Connery's interpretation of Bond. Connery was the original
> cold-blooded Bond. Hell, he was the original Bond (if you don't count the
> forgettable 1950's TV adaptation of "Casino Royale", and I don't mean the
> David Niven comedy. It was some CBS one shot deal.).
Heard about it. Never saw it.
> I think Bond is
> Kirk's total opposite. I've always interpreted Kirk as truly wanting most
> of the women he was paired with, but simply kept away from them by his
ship.
> Bond, on the other hand, was trying to either drown his demons or remind
> himself that he was still alive.
>
I would agree with this. It's important to note, though, that in Kirk's
case, the choice is entirely his.
Jeff Troutman
annz
>
>
>
>TOS was not the "Kirk Gets Laid" show. It wasn't about Kirk's sex
>life. Kirk is not like James Bond, who actually does get laid by at
>least one new woman every movie. People who assert that Kirk was an
>intergalactic playboy can't offer convincing proof of their claim. All
>they have is a few spicy hints to point at, combined with the fevered
>productions of their own imaginations.
>
*snip*
>There is *proof* that Kirk was selective about his women, that he had a
>definite type he preferred, and that he got laid very rarely. Where's
>the *proof* that he was a tramp?
>
>Captain Kirk is a decent fellow who likes nice ladies and gets laid only
>rarely. That's my assertion.
>
>There are a lot of people who like to think that Kirk got laid on every
>show. That Kirk fucked every woman he met. I don't mind if they like
>to think that, but they should know that such ideas are their own
>imaginations at work.
>
I have to agree with you, Laura. I read an something once -- an article, story,
post, I don't recall which -- that pointed out how *few* women Kirk actually had
even a flirtation with over the course of the three years of the show. By his
own words, he felt it was improper for the captain to have an affair with anyone
on his crew ("The Naked Time"), so his flings all occurred when he had the good
luck to encounter a female who attracted him and who wasn't part of his crew.
Add up all the women he even had flirtations with, and you'll find that he
didn't even have an opportunity to have sex all that often. One story had Dr.
McCoy comment that he called Kirk "Capt. Horny" because he got some so seldom
that he easily was aroused by any suitable woman he *did* have a chance at. Even
then, though, he didn't take advantage of anyone. Any of his "partners" were
always consenting and capable of giving consent. Those who weren't, he might
have seduced to a certain extent, but I don't believe he actually had sex with
them. He simply used an attraction to get them to do what he believed needed to
be done, but didn't carry the situation any further than necessary.
One would assume that *any* man in his mid-30s in Kirk's time (given medical
advances making accidental pregnancies unlikely and STDs virtually unheard-of)
would have had a number of sexual encounters in his life -- especially one as
attractive and charming as Kirk. I don't believe he had an overactive sex life
at all -- certainly not while he was captain of the Enterprise, and not even
while at the Academy, where he was (again by his own admission) a walking stack
of books, positively grim. Sound like a playboy to you? It doesn't to me.
--
Ann
"To write is human; to edit divine." -- Stephen King, "Oh Writing"
Gamin Davis
>http://lauragoodwin.org/uhura.html <-- My thoughts on the Uhura question
>There was a lot of suggestive stuff in TOS, and the intent was to excite
>our imaginations. TOS was intentionally titillating. They teased us
>often with the possibilities. I'm like Kirk and Spock: I like to think
>there are always possibilities.
>Sure something could have happened. I never said we shouldn't imagine
>that something could have happened. I like imagining things that could
>have happened, myself.
Like I said...I doubt it extended to a sexual relationship, but I
definitely think there was *something* going on there--a friendship of some
type, maybe almost a low-level non-sexual kind of courtship thing. She
enjoys being in his presence a bit more than could be accounted for by
professional admiration, and I think the feeling may be mutual.
Gamin
Gamin Davis
>So did Kirk, IMHO. I'm not saying he didn't think she was fuckable: of
>course she was. I'm saying Kirk allowed her to believe he was her
>Mirror-Kirk lover because he didn't trust her with the truth.
Undoubtedly.
>TOS was not the "Kirk Gets Laid" show. It wasn't about Kirk's sex
>life. Kirk is not like James Bond, who actually does get laid by at
>least one new woman every movie. People who assert that Kirk was an
>intergalactic playboy can't offer convincing proof of their claim. All
>they have is a few spicy hints to point at, combined with the fevered
>productions of their own imaginations.
Agree.
>That's all K/Sers (people who like imagining Kirk and Spock are lovers)
>have, too. I'd like PROOF that Kirk and Spock were lovers, but there
>~ain't none~. I'm not going to stop writing K/S just because all the
>evidence points to a powerful, passionate friendship, not a love
>affair.
No comment...except that I'm in the "powerful, passionate friendship"
camp on this one.
>There is *proof* that Kirk was selective about his women, that he had a
>definite type he preferred, and that he got laid very rarely. Where's
>the *proof* that he was a tramp?
>Captain Kirk is a decent fellow who likes nice ladies and gets laid only
>rarely. That's my assertion.
Good for you, Laura. I've long held this view but I've seen so much
Kirk-trashing on various groups I've gotten tired of arguing with people
about it.
>There are a lot of people who like to think that Kirk got laid on every
>show. That Kirk fucked every woman he met. I don't mind if they like
>to think that, but they should know that such ideas are their own
>imaginations at work.
I think this is people superimposing their own fantasies onto Kirk.
JMO.
Gamin, enjoying this discussion
Gamin Davis
>I have to agree with you, Laura. I read an something once -- an article,
>story, post, I don't recall which -- that pointed out how *few* women
>Kirk actually had even a flirtation with over the course of the three
>years of the show. By his own words, he felt it was improper for the
>captain to have an affair with anyone on his crew ("The Naked Time"), so
>his flings all occurred when he had the good luck to encounter a female
>who attracted him and who wasn't part of his crew. Add up all the women
>he even had flirtations with, and you'll find that he didn't even have
>an opportunity to have sex all that often. One story had Dr. McCoy
>comment that he called Kirk "Capt. Horny" because he got some so seldom
>that he easily was aroused by any suitable woman he *did* have a chance
>at. Even then, though, he didn't take advantage of anyone. Any of his
>"partners" were always consenting and capable of giving consent. Those
>who weren't, he might have seduced to a certain extent, but I don't
>believe he actually had sex with them. He simply used an attraction to
>get them to do what he believed needed to be done, but didn't carry the
>situation any further than necessary.
Agree, Ann.
>One would assume that *any* man in his mid-30s in Kirk's time (given
>medical advances making accidental pregnancies unlikely and STDs
>virtually unheard-of)
Although, it *has* occurred to me that just as we have come up with
new diseases in the 20th century that were unknown in say, the 18th, there
might be some new ones in the 23rd century that were as virulent to them as
AIDS is to us now. On the plus side, they've probably cured AIDS by then.
>would have had a number of sexual encounters in his life -- especially
>one as attractive and charming as Kirk. I don't believe he had an
>overactive sex life at all -- certainly not while he was captain of the
>Enterprise, and not even while at the Academy, where he was (again by
>his own admission) a walking stack of books, positively grim. Sound like
>a playboy to you? It doesn't to me.
Yes, exactly--I think people conveniently forget that little
canonical piece of information. (Although, I think you contradicted
yourself in the first part of the paragraph. <g>)
Gamin
Gamin Davis
>>Yeah that remark of mine above wasn't directed at you personally. It's
>more a complaint about the very common attitude that I've seen.
Yeah, it's a little too prevalent for my tastes, too.
>Yes, of course it looked as though he might have had some feelings.
>This is another case where, when Kirk is in a tough spot and he needs
>something, he does what he has to to get it. Kirk pitied the girl, he
>had compassion for her, but she was his link to the other (hostile)
>children. He (and everybody) recognized that the girl had a crush on
>him, and he manipulated the girl's feelings to convince her to cooperate
>with him.
I find it difficult to think of him as "using" Miri, since he knew she
was so vulnerable, nor can I equate her with Marlena; Miri was an innocent
child. Marlena was anything but. And Kirk was so tender and gentle with
Miri...it didn't seem like "using" to me, which has a negative connotation.
Yes, he needed her for the purposes you cite, but I don't feel that he
abused or took advantage of her. The only reason she turned against him
was that he momentarily paid more attention to Janice Rand than to her.
You'll notice Miri came around to liking and trusting him again at the end
of the episode.
Gamin
Laura Goodwin
> ...certainly not while he was captain of the Enterprise, and not even
> while at the Academy, where he was (again by his own admission) a walking stack
> of books, positively grim. Sound like a playboy to you? It doesn't to me.
Precisely. Thank you. People forget Kirk's greatest passion is his
career. He's incredibly focused and ambitious, and is not the kind of
guy who fools around, especially not with things that might hurt his
career.
He is an emotional guy, though. He's emotionally very complex and
alive, which is one reason he's such an appealing character. He also is
quite plainly a very warm-blooded individual. Certainly thoughts of
love and of sexual pleasure are attractive to him. But he is not ruled
by his animal urges. He has a lot of self-control, and is comfortable
with controlling other people's urges too, which, in his profession, he
often is called upon to do.
Laura Goodwin
Laura Goodwin
Well, wait a minute. He didn't really exercise much choice. The
slave/whore brought to him while he was imprisoned in "Bread and
Circuses" was under orders, and he himself didn't have any control over
whether either of them could stay or go. In "Paradise Syndrome" he was
required to marry Miramanee by tribal law. Just because he didn't mind
that much doesn't mean it was his choice. He was Queen Deela's hostage
when he seduced her. She was planning on using him for sex anyway.
Whose idea was that, really? Besides, if she only scratched his skin a
teeny bit it could have killed him. It's not like it was smart for him
to fight her off.
That's 3 out of three: of the three women he for sure had sex with in
TOS Enterprise days, he didn't really choose anything, except to be a
good sport. :) FWIW, he never made it to second base with Keeler, and
Lester was a pre-TOS lover, as was Carol Marcus. The others you can
name - no proof.
Laura Goodwin
annz
I wrote:
>
>>One would assume that *any* man in his mid-30s in Kirk's time (given
>>medical advances making accidental pregnancies unlikely and STDs
>>-- especially
>>one as attractive and charming as Kirk. I don't believe he had an
>>overactive sex life at all -- certainly not while he was captain of the
>>Enterprise, and not even while at the Academy, where he was (again by
>>his own admission) a walking stack of books, positively grim. Sound like
>>a playboy to you? It doesn't to me.
>
and Gamin replied:
> Yes, exactly--I think people conveniently forget that little
>canonical piece of information. (Although, I think you contradicted
>yourself in the first part of the paragraph. <g>)
Not really. There are a number of years *between* his time at the academy and
when he took command of the Enterprise. And having a number of sexual encounters
between the time he reached puberty and his mid-30s doesn't mean he had an
overactive sex life -- just a reasonably active one. :-)
annz
Right. But having an occasional fling while on Shore Leave or otherwise
temporarily relieved of his responsibilities as captain with a clearly willing
partner is not only believable, it's just normal. He's certainly not the only
member of the crew to do so. And regulars on the other Trek shows also are
depicted as having at least occasionally active sex lives. Why should he be any
different? The only reason is his own personal code of conduct, based primarily
on his belief that his career and command come first. As I said, when you add up
*all* of the incidents that *might* have led to a sexual encounter for him,
you'll find the vast majority of the time, he was living a celebate life -- and
generally by choice.
Laura Goodwin
> ... And having a number of sexual encounters
> between the time he reached puberty and his mid-30s doesn't mean he had an
> overactive sex life -- just a reasonably active one. :-)
A normal one, thank you. That Kirk gets any at all apparently makes
some people think he never misses a chance: "If any, then all" an
obvious fallacy.
You have to remember that at the time TOS aired, the idea of "Free Love"
was popular, and for a brief span of years people commonly did fall into
bed with each other fairly easily. The Enterprise was imagined during
this time as a ship full of people who didn't have to worry about
unwanted pregnancy or venereal disease. They lived in a future where
poverty, hunger, ignorance, and bigotry had all largely waned. The
barriers to love were fewer and easier to leap - but they had respect
for themselves and each other, and therefore *did not* play fast, cheap
and loose. All aboard the Enterprise were professional military people,
and they were expected to behave professionally. They were on a
mission, not a pleasure cruise.
You send a co-ed crew of human beings deep into space for five years
with mostly only each other to depend on for friendship and comfort, and
they are of course going to have sex with each other, poor things. They
are not monks and nuns on a religious retreat, after all.
Laura Goodwin
Robert Carlson
was cocky and self assured. A regular chick magnet. From ST II on (and it
began showing in STTMP) he was full of self doubt. He doesn't seem to
have much of a love life in the movies.
Bob
"Final Frontier" <ty...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:3A86C153...@flash.net...
Gamin Davis
>Not really. There are a number of years *between* his time at the
>academy and when he took command of the Enterprise. And having a number
>of sexual encounters between the time he reached puberty and his mid-30s
>doesn't mean he had an overactive sex life -- just a reasonably active
>one. :-)
Okay, I *thought* you were talking about the fact that a "normal man in
his 30s who looks like Kirk does" would have a lot of sex, not during some
time *prior* to that, i.e. between the Academy and his first command--do
you see what I'm getting at? I thought you were saying someone like Kirk
*should* be having a lot of sex but *he's* not. Sounded almost like an
accusation.
Gamin
Jeff Troutman
I wasn't defining "paired with" strictly in terms of whether or not they had
sex.
Jeff Troutman
Laura Goodwin
>
> Do you think Kirk attracted any women after the 5 year mission? In TOS Kirk
> was cocky and self assured. A regular chick magnet. From ST II on (and it
> began showing in STTMP) he was full of self doubt. He doesn't seem to
> have much of a love life in the movies.
Another reason why I hate the movies. TPTB dropped the ball! Who is
that impostor, and where have they hidden the real Jim Kirk?
That's why I ignore post-TOS canon in my fanfic. What a truckload of
crap! That's what you get when the geeks who've been shown up by
Kirk-types all their lives are put in charge of the project! What
weenies!
That's why I say Kirk is not dead. They killed an impostor. :) They
knew he wasn't the real Jim Kirk, that's why they didn't bother with a
fancy funeral, the doity bastids.
Robert Carlson
Kirk's last words would be "it was fun...oh my!" What a wus way to die! And
speaking of wusses, where did they dig up the wimp to captain the Enterprise
B? He didn't even know how to respond to a crisis. If you have ever been
in a situation where you have to act, you know not to sit there with your
thumbs up your backside. You do something, even if it is the wrong
something. Indecision almost always gets you killed.
Our young Cdr. Decker in STTMP was another goodie. When you are in line
authority, command change happens. Live with it! Going around moping is
almost as bad as doing nothing. Another way to get yourself killed.
This, of course, has nothing to do with Kirk's love life. By the way, I
think Antonia doesn't exist. She is a phenomena of the effect, just like
Picard's fantasy family.
Bob
"Laura Goodwin" <lal...@altavista.net> wrote in message
news:3A88A873...@altavista.net...
Chaos
Episode one (and the books) what do we really know of Kirks' youth?
Perhaps Roddenbery made a margin note in a script somewhere and the writers
suddenly decided to use it in the movie. And if frogs had wings they would
not bumb their poor littles asses when they hop!!!
No one knows
CHAOS
Robert Carlson
"Chaos" <ch...@netexpress.net> wrote in message
news:D427984A8B09407E.17069567...@lp.airnews.net...
> Not wanting to incure an argument, but why cannot Antonnia exist? Past
> Episode one (and the books) what do we really know of Kirks' youth?
script along. Usually you at least see his women. This one is invisible!
>
> Perhaps Roddenbery made a margin note in a script somewhere and the
writers
> suddenly decided to use it in the movie. And if frogs had wings they
would
> not bumb their poor littles asses when they hop!!!
>
killed Kirk's brother. They always reminded me of flattened flying
horseshoe crabs.
> No one knows
>
> CHAOS
>
>