Why Voyager?
C. Montgomery Burns
I've read most of the fics posted here, and I've noticed that the vast
majority are stories involving the Voyager crew. Other sites, like
fanfic.net, show a similar pattern.
My question is - why is this? I'm genuinely curious to hear if anyone has
any thoughts on why fanfic writers so overwhelmingly prefer to write about
Voyager.
Any takers?
--
- Monty Burns
Mark Stanley
>
> My question is - why is this? I'm genuinely curious to hear if anyone has
> any thoughts on why fanfic writers so overwhelmingly prefer to write about
> Voyager.
>
> Any takers?
>
I'd suggest that it's because Voyager has been on the air most recently,
and was on a network rather than in syndication. A network will air
something everywhere, but syndicated programs have to be bought by each
individual station. (I think that's how it works... I'm not that
familiar with the foibles of American TV production.)
DS9 isn't very widely distributed; there are areas in which it's the
only Trek that has never aired, and many more areas that have never
shown all the episodes. It's not rerun in many places compared to the
other shows.
TNG was great plot-wise, but didn't have much in the way of character
relationships that lend themselves to romantic fanfic. Romance is really
the backbone of fanfic, so a show with few plausible and interesting
pairings will be less interesting to fanficcers.
TOS is a lot older, and really lends itself only to slash pairings.
ASCEM, unlike ASC, is dominated by TOS stories, specifically K/S.
This last bit is applicable to all the shows -- there's a lot more het
on ASC and a lot more slash on ASCEM. (Possibly because ASCEM was
created in response to one of the annual Slash Flame Wars that used to
go on around here.) Voyager lends itself to a lot more het than the
other shows.
Also, I get the vague impression that Voyager appeals to younger viewers
than the other three. (Perhaps simply because the other three are older
programs and the younger viewers were too young to watch them in their
first run.) Younger fanficcers cannot join ASCEM without implicitly or
explicitly lying about their age. They might also get in trouble with
their parents. So they hang out here. (The age issue is certainly
relevant to fanfiction.net, where the average age seems to be about 15.)
Mark
DS9 writer
speculating randomly :0)
--
I wouldn't know subtlety if it came up and bit me on the
ass. But then, that wouldn't be very subtle, would it?
--Olivia, Treksmut mistress
~~~
mrs...@sk.sympatico.ca
ASC* Archive Team
<mr_bur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>All,
>
>I've read most of the fics posted here, and I've noticed that the vast
>majority are stories involving the Voyager crew. Other sites, like
>fanfic.net, show a similar pattern.
>
>My question is - why is this? I'm genuinely curious to hear if anyone has
>any thoughts on why fanfic writers so overwhelmingly prefer to write about
>Voyager.
These things go in cycles, Monty. When I first checked out ASC in
1994, it was overwhelmingly TNG, which was about at the peak of its
popularity then. I became active with the group in 1997, at which time
Voyager was starting to surge, with a goodly amount of DS9 and
somewhat less of TNG. But with the Internet boom in '97 and on,
Voyager really took off. Now some will no doubt mark it up to
dissatisfaction with what TPTB was doing with the show, and for some
writers that's undoubtedly true -- but that doesn't account for it
all. You'd also have to factor in the explosion in 'net usage, and
the rise in active participants on ASC -- the sheer *amount* of
fiction posted in the three years since I joined the archive team is
astounding! (The archive has more than doubled in size, with no end
in sight.) For anyone getting involved with the group in the past
three years, the majority have been VOY writers. I'd be willing to
bet that within the next couple of years, ENT will be challenging or
surpassing VOY here....
Katie, up past bedtime and hoping to sound coherent
Constable Katie, ASC Archive team
ASC* archive: http://www.trekiverse.org, http://voyager.trekiverse.net or http://trekiverse.crosswinds.net
Submissions/corrections: submissions@ webamused.com or trekiverse@ trekiverse.org
For archive updates: ASC-Archive-annc-subscribe@ yahoogroups.com
ASC Stories-Only list: ascl-subscribe@ yahoogroups.com
ASCEM Stories-Only list: ascem-s-subscribe@ yahoogroups.com
Shayney
any thoughts on why fanfic writers so overwhelmingly prefer to write about
Voyager. >>
Probably because it's been the only one still in production for the past few
years.
Come back in a year or two, and I bet "Enterprise" will be the dominant series
here.
-- Shayney
This is where I keep my fanfic:
http://member.aol.com/ShayneyL/
Rabble Rouser
I'd like to take some exception to that. It's true that K/S is probably the
most popular Trek pairing period and an overwhelming amount of it is on ASCEM.
It's natural I suppose since the relationship between Kirk and Spock was very
much at the heart of the show and was at the core of a lot of the action and
motivation.
But if you look at the most popular TOS authors on ASC I'd submit to you that
the majority are het writers like Jungle Kitty who writes Kirkhet, Wildcat who
writes Spock/Uhura, Djinn and Debbie B who write Spock/Chapel (a pairing that
actually had more stories posted last year on ASC then K/S actually) Roisin who
pairs Spock with an OFC T'Rela, Gayle Potts who writes a lot of het featuring
Spock, Kirk, McCoy, and Sulu.
That's not to say that there hasn't been some great slash TOS stories posted
here because there has--Jat-Sapphire, Karmen Ghia, and Hafital spring to mind
but when I think of the best and most popular stories posted TOS stories posted
a whole lot of het and gen stories spring to mind.
- - - - - - - - - -
Rabble Rouser
Story Page:
http://www.geocities.com/rabble_rouser_st/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The test of courage comes when we are in the minority.
The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority.
Mark Stanley
>
> >TOS is a lot older, and really lends itself only to slash pairings.
>
> I'd like to take some exception to that.
You're right, that was unclear of me. When I say TOS doesn't lend itself
to het, I really mean that I can't think of a TOS het pairing that is
*in itself* plausible and interesting. A good author can *make* it
plausible and interesting, but a good author can make even supremely
unlikely pairings like Garak/Rom plausible and interesting.
I wouldn't consider any of the canonical pairings you listed plausible
or interesting in themselves. YMMV. At the same time, I do agree that
the talented writers you cite *make* them so. I once read a Spock/Chapel
that totally blew me away. I only meant to assert, and I admit I was
unforgivably vague, that a greater number of het authors may feel
comfortable with the more obvious and canonically supportable het
pairings in Voyager, hence the relative lack of TOS hetfic.
I apologize for any offense that I might have given by my vagueness -- I
was more interested in my DS9 bit of argument, and in the demographic
differences between ASCEM and ASC, and I gave the circumstances of both
TOS and TNG fanfic writers short shrift.
Mark
Shayney
to het, I really mean that I can't think of a TOS het pairing that is
*in itself* plausible and interesting. A good author can *make* it
plausible and interesting, but a good author can make even supremely
unlikely pairings like Garak/Rom plausible and interesting. >>
100% agreed. I love TOS, it's my favorite of all the Trek series, really (even
though I only write Voyager :-). But face it -- all the women on TOS were
ciphers.
DangerMom
than the other three. (Perhaps simply because the other three are older
programs and the younger viewers were too young to watch them in their
first run.) <<
Well, a lot of the people who "started" TOS fandom way back when were young
too--there were certainly adult and even "middle-aged" early Trek fans, but the
ones I met in the seventies when zines and cons really took off were
college-age and just slightly older, and like myself had probably been
pre-teens and teens when TOS was first on the air.
As for Voyager fandom, yes there are a lot of internet fans who are quite
young, when the show started and now. But I'm a Voyager fan who's watched and
generally enjoyed every Trek series, but only felt compelled to write so
diligently about Voyager (I previously wrote fan fic in lots of other
genres)--and I guess it must be the characters and the *basic* premise that
drove me on. A great number of the people I know who write Voyager are over
thirty (and well beyond, myself included!).
As for "Enterprise," B&B are going to have to pull quite a rabbit out of the
hat to get me to even want to watch regularly. All the talk on their side and
the fans' side about too muck Trek, or burnout, or going back to Trek's
roots--feh. I'm particularly unhappy when I hear the producers (and now, even
the ENT actors) say things that run along the lines of: "Well, not to say
anything bad about the previous Treks, but--" Then insert any comparison you
can think of between each previous series, setting, captain, ship, aliens,
techonolgy, etc. It all ends up sounding like they're saying each previous
Trek was all bad, with no redeeming or special qualities, and ENT will be the
only one worth remembering. Again, feh.
OK, so maybe I'm exaggerating a little, or am just over-sensitive about the
hype, but it's leaving a very bad taste in my mouth, and with no great
enthusiasm for the new show.
~~DM
C. Montgomery Burns
do when I try to cut back on my 10-hour a day sleep requirements. <g>
You make an interesting point about the "current" show being the most
popular. I hadn't really thought of it that way; for me, the characters and
shows are kind of eternal (literally, I can watch 2-5 episodes of TNG, VOY,
TOS and/DS9 in any given day.) But I guess it makes sense. It's really just
a variation of "write what you know", and since Voyager is/was front and
center in most people's minds, it's logical to assume they 'know' more about
it.
Still, the complete lack of DS9 fiction here kind of surprises me. Granted,
I haven't been lurking around all that long, but I don't think I've seen a
single DS9 piece. On the other hand there have been a few TBG and TOS fics.
Of course, I'm a bit biased, since DS9 was my favorite show by quite a ways.
We'll have to watch and see if your theory holds true. If so, we should see
a small avalanche of ENT stories showing up in the next few months.
MB
SaRa
that's what people are writing. It's probably also because of the wonderful
relationships the characters have. Even Chakotay, the most neglected character,
had some interesting relationships with the others, specifically B'Elanna and
Janeway. When characters have relationships (and backstories, though I can't
say many Voyager characters had that!), it makes it so much easier to write for
them, I think. On top of that, doesn't someone have to fill in all those plot
holes and fix those inconstancies?
And, yes, Voyager is popular with younger people (I belong to that crowd,
having just turned 14 last month). I'd probably say that that's because of the
wonderful special effects the show uses; not necessarily because we were too
young to watch TNG and the like. I was watching TNG during it's first run (it's
actually one of my first memories) and the TOS reruns which were on right
before TNG came on.
I don't see Enterprise ever being as big as Voyager was. First because of the
boycotts going on and second because it's set too close to the current time. I
doubt that I'll be following it because of that fact. Part of the fun of Star
Trek is seeing what things much farther in the future might be like.
(Enterprise is set what, 150 years in the future? That's possible that some
people could still be alive then if medical advances keep up.)
--SaRa
=====
Make God laugh: plan for the future.
===
SaRa's Sites: http://roadtotravel.tripod.com
TLin
>I haven't been lurking around all that long, but I don't think I've seen a
>single DS9 piece.
Well, I know there haven't been many, but I posted my Doctor Fuh-q Fest story
"Casualties of War" here on August 1st (DS9 - Bashir/Tomalak, G/B implied
[NC-17] 3-parts) - there were several DFF stories posted at the begining of
August, and I think a few of them were DS9 ... however, I do not recall seeing
any FB for any of them on ASC ... <i>curious</i>
>:-]
T'Lin
http://www.geocities.com/tlin_s/
http://www.geocities.com/femme_fuhq_fest/index.html
"To hell with crack, heroin, whiskey, tobacco. Writing is far and away the
single most addictive thing in the universe, IMHO." ~ Greywolf
J. Juls
Rabble Rouser <rabbler...@aol.comnot> wrote in message
news:20010822032618...@mb-mk.aol.com...
>> But if you look at the most popular TOS authors on ASC I'd submit to
you that
> the majority are het writers like Jungle Kitty who writes Kirkhet,
Wildcat who
> writes Spock/Uhura, Djinn and Debbie B who write Spock/Chapel (a pairing
that
> actually had more stories posted last year on ASC then K/S actually)
Roisin who
> pairs Spock with an OFC T'Rela, Gayle Potts who writes a lot of het
featuring
> Spock, Kirk, McCoy, and Sulu.
True, but if you check out both asc and ascem, the vast majority of TOS
are K/S.
Julie
J. Juls
DangerMom <dang...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010822070142...@mb-cj.aol.com...
I'm particularly unhappy when I hear the producers (and now, even
> the ENT actors) say things that run along the lines of: "Well, not to
say
> anything bad about the previous Treks, but--"
Yeah, I saw something *official* like, "Unlike the previous shows, our
crew has a spirit of exploration." Okay, whatever.
I just noticed Dr. Phlox is a theologian and shaman. Woo, good thing I
don't get that channel anyway.
Julie
Rabble Rouser
>I haven't been lurking around all that long, but I don't think I've seen a
>single DS9 piece.
I'm not a big DS9 fan--not because I didn't like what I saw but bec it was on
during a period of my life when TV watching was close to impossible. But
someone who is a huge fan of the show said she thought the reason for so little
DS9 fic was that the show was just too good.
In other words everything hung together, characters were well developed and
fleshed out and in the end all the characters fate was tied up in a neat bow.
There's little grist for the fanfic mill therefore.
h I have to say thou that I sampled some DS9 fic for the Award this year and
what I read was absolutely wonderful. Particularly stories by Paula Stiles,
Una McCormick, Gabrielle Lawson, Seema among others. If you want to sample
some of the above a good place to start is
Best of Trek at:
http://www.geocities.com/botrek/index.html
Don't forget to look at their "Spotlight" and not just the DS9 page.
AKite68163
I can only answer for myself here. I've written stories with characters from
all four series, though none as yet exclusively TNG. Most of what I've written
is Voyager though. As to why, I think it's because the characters are easier
for me to indentify with. Yes, right now, Voyager fic is dominate, and like
Katie said, it goes in cycles.
Anita, aka A. Kite
DragonGrrl
"C. Montgomery Burns" wrote:
> I'm genuinely curious to hear if anyone has
> any thoughts on why fanfic writers so overwhelmingly prefer to write about
> Voyager.
It seems to me that for whichever Trek is seeing the most fanfic action at a
given time, most of what's there will be 'shipper fic. This makes sense to me;
characters who are currently on television are growing and developing,
constantly providing fuel to writers who want to make them (and their
relationships, whether sexual or otherwise) deeper and more complex through
fanfic. Many more people are inspired to write 'shipper fic than anything
else, so a series that is on the air will see an explosion of new fan stories.
When the series ends, the writers go two separate ways. Some of them will set
their sights (and pens) on other characters and other series, since there's
nothing more to say about the old characters now that their stories have
ended. A few writers will have created their own alternate timelines for their
characters, or have been writing non-relationship-based stories, and to them
it doesn't matter if the 'official' versions of the characters no longer
exist-- the former just go on with their own canon, and the latter are coming
up with stories that depend on plots separate from character development.
After Voyager is mostly forgotten and fans are infatuated with the new series,
there will still be a few diehard writers around, just as there are TOS and
TNG and DS9 writers still posting today.
I'm not making a value judgement on either 'shipper or non-'shipper stories,
or the people who write them. There's nothing inherently better about being
'loyal' to old favourite characters as opposed to moving on and writing about
different people or a different universe. That's my theory on why it happens,
anyways. It would be interesting to go through multi-series fanfic archives
(like fanfiction.net) and see when most of the fic there was written. I would
predict that (for example) every couple of years, after A&E releases new
Horatio Hornblower movies, there is an explosion of Hornblower fanfic. I would
also guess that before any of the A&E movies existed, there weren't any fanfic
pages devoted to the Hornblower books.
--Brenda
rg
wrote:
>
>I'm not a big DS9 fan--not because I didn't like what I saw but bec it was on
>during a period of my life when TV watching was close to impossible. But
>someone who is a huge fan of the show said she thought the reason for so little
>DS9 fic was that the show was just too good.
>
> In other words everything hung together, characters were well developed and
>fleshed out and in the end all the characters fate was tied up in a neat bow.
>There's little grist for the fanfic mill therefore.
>
I agree.
TOS and TNG there was no need for continuity between the stories, so
there are no yawning gaps. They were simple adventure episodes, that
could be set in any order and over any time frame. So the major grist
to the mill of fan fiction is missing. There are no great holes to be
papered over.
DS9 after a shakey start gained a theme for the stories and they wrote
in a way to link the disparate stories. Again it left few holes.
Voyager cried out for stories to link the episodes together for a
whole host of reasons.
1/ There are too many gaps and leaps of faith in relationships and
attitudes. There must be life between Paramounts efforts, yet we never
saw it.
2/ It is inconceivable that they could really face a situation every
fortnight over their seven year voyage.. Especially as several
episodes were commented as requiring weeks or months. It would leave
them gibbering wrecks!
3/ There is another umpteen years that haven't been covered before
Voyager returns to the Alpha Quadrant the first time. Or did they
really manage not to meet anybody for ten years after meeting
ridgehead to ridgehead aliens for the first few years?
(By my reckoning if Cap'n Kate did bring them back after seven years
in End Game, then they should be back about midway through the fifth
season at the latest. (Which really blows the Chakotay/Seven thing out
the water). But I digress.)
The proliferation of Voyager stories simply reflects all of these and
probably quite a few more.
regards
ray
C. Montgomery Burns
story
> "Casualties of War" here on August 1st (DS9 - Bashir/Tomalak, G/B implied
> [NC-17] 3-parts) - there were several DFF stories posted at the begining
of
> August, and I think a few of them were DS9 ... however, I do not recall
seeing
> any FB for any of them on ASC ... <i>curious</i>
Guilty as charged. I've read almost everything here (though I don't recall
CoW, maybe I missed it for some reason), yet I rarely provide any feedback.
Which, I know, is probably a bit gauche. Especially since so much of it is
so good. Oddly, though, after I read a story, I often find I don't have much
to say or comment on, and I don't want to end up typing an email that says
"Great story!" a dozen times a week .
I've confessed previously to being lazy author, I guess now I'm a lazy
reader, too. D'oh.
MB
Mark Stanley
>
> >Still, the complete lack of DS9 fiction here kind of surprises me. Granted,
> >I haven't been lurking around all that long, but I don't think I've seen a
> >single DS9 piece.
>
> I'm not a big DS9 fan--not because I didn't like what I saw but bec it was on
> during a period of my life when TV watching was close to impossible. But
> someone who is a huge fan of the show said she thought the reason for so little
> DS9 fic was that the show was just too good.
>
To some extent that may be true. Canon hangs together without too many
fixes, unless you're trying to do something a bit uncanonical that gets
contradicted by canon. (Like trying to write G/B in the late 7th season
while Julian was being all giggly and smoochy with Ezri.)
The other thing is that, while there are certainly a non-trivial number
of DS9 writers, most of us are rather *slow* writers. There are a couple
of exceptions, but usually we take quite awhile to come out with our
latest.
C. Montgomery Burns
news:20010822170412...@mb-fx.aol.com...
> Why Voyager? I have to agree that it's what's on everyone's mind right
now, so
> that's what people are writing. It's probably also because of the
wonderful
> relationships the characters have. Even Chakotay, the most neglected
character,
> had some interesting relationships with the others, specifically B'Elanna
and
> Janeway. When characters have relationships (and backstories, though I
can't
> say many Voyager characters had that!), it makes it so much easier to
write for
> them, I think. On top of that, doesn't someone have to fill in all those
plot
> holes and fix those inconstancies?
From my own perspective, the lack of good characters were what killed my
interest in Voyager. I watched it faithfully for about 5 years but tuned out
in seasons 6 and 7 (I'd still watch it, but if I missed 2 or 3 or 4 episodes
in a row it didn't really bother me).
The first few years, I was willing to put with the VOY characters being
sketchy and incomplete. But with the exception of the doctor (and later 7)
they never really seemed to go anywhere.
Janeway, for example, was almost the same person at the beginning of the
show that she was at the end (Admiral Janeway notwithstanding): stubborn,
rash, impulsive, quirky, and yet at the same time, inspiring and lovable all
in one big package. By the end, the only trait I could add to that list
would be "matronly", a role forced on her as much by necessity as by choice.
But I really didn't learn anything new about her, she never really seemed to
grow or change. It was like she was frozen in time, and that made her less
interesting as the years rolled by.
Ditto for the other characters, except, as mentioned, the Doc and 7 of 9.
This has had the opposite effect on me than (apparently) a lot of people.
The characters aren't interesting to me, and I don't have any desire to try
and make them so. Which is why all the VOY fic puzzled me and I asked the
question in the first place. However, I can see now that I'm in the minority
on this one (but then, what else is new? <g>)
> And, yes, Voyager is popular with younger people (I belong to that crowd,
> having just turned 14 last month). I'd probably say that that's because of
the
> wonderful special effects the show uses; not necessarily because we were
too
> young to watch TNG and the like. I was watching TNG during it's first run
(it's
> actually one of my first memories) and the TOS reruns which were on right
> before TNG came on.
Well, I'm, er, a bit older than 14 <g>, but I also greatly enjoy special
effects. Some of the SFX sequences in Voyager were truly outstanding, it's
probably the thing I remember most fondly about the show.
> I don't see Enterprise ever being as big as Voyager was. First because of
the
> boycotts going on and second because it's set too close to the current
time. I
> doubt that I'll be following it because of that fact. Part of the fun of
Star
> Trek is seeing what things much farther in the future might be like.
> (Enterprise is set what, 150 years in the future? That's possible that
some
> people could still be alive then if medical advances keep up.)
Give Enterprise a chance. I'm really looking forward to it. 150 years into
the future is a long time. As for being alive then, I would only want to be
if my golf game got a bit better every year.
MB
J. Juls
C. Montgomery Burns <mr_bur...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dKXg7.606$KoS1.1...@tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca...
> Guilty as charged. I've read almost everything here (though I don't
recall
> CoW, maybe I missed it for some reason), yet I rarely provide any
feedback.
> Which, I know, is probably a bit gauche.
I'll forgive ya since you have such a nice name.
Julie
Sulfurdioxid
continuity might discourage many fanfic writers. Of course, one can always ignore
continuity or write AU. But that is not the same and people know it. It is really
difficult to insert a story into the existing continuity so it fits. The tighter the
continuity, the more difficult it gets. (Even though there are some writers here who
do this superbly!)
This might also be the reason why G/B is so immensly popular. (I think the only
pairing that is more popular is K/S.)
Their relationship was one of the few threads they didn´t develop fully. In the first
season they developed a special relationship - somewhere between pupil/teacher and
lovers. Andrew Robinson confirmed that he played Garak like he was attracted to
Bashir. And I remember a picture where he handed the doctor something and their
fingertips actually touched (as in the classic "Could you light my cigarette, Sugar"
situation). But instead of developing their relationship further they dropped it
pretty completly. Probably they were afraid of a gay relationship - even though that
*was not* the only way their relationship could have developed! An alternative would
have been that the pupil surpasses the teacher and takes an active stance against
him.
The point is, they let them hanging in limbo. So it is small wander that their
relationship attracted so much attention of fanfic writers.
Sulfurdioxid
Stephen Ratliff
I must correct a little history here. ASCA was created due to the
slash wars. ASCEM was the successor to ASCE, which was the successor
to alt.sex.fetish.startrek, which was around a long time before ASC's
April Slash Wars (which thankfully haven't occured for the last couple
years)
>Also, I get the vague impression that Voyager appeals to younger viewers
>than the other three. (Perhaps simply because the other three are older
>programs and the younger viewers were too young to watch them in their
>first run.) Younger fanficcers cannot join ASCEM without implicitly or
>explicitly lying about their age. They might also get in trouble with
>their parents. So they hang out here. (The age issue is certainly
>relevant to fanfiction.net, where the average age seems to be about 15.)
>
>Mark
>DS9 writer
>speculating randomly :0)
Stephen
--
Stephen Ratliff ASC FAQ Maintainer
http://www.crosswinds.net/~stephenratliff/FAQs
J Winter
<<<I apologize for any offense that I might have given by my vagueness
-- I
was more interested in my DS9 bit of argument, and in the demographic
differences between ASCEM and ASC, and I gave the circumstances of
both
TOS and TNG fanfic writers short shrift.>>>
It's a common image people have of TOS because, quite frankly, some
K/S'rs are rather vocal about their views. Squeaky wheel and all.
And there's no doubting the popularity of K/S throughout fanfic
history.
But it's the same for all the other shows, except, maybe, TNG. To
many, DS9 may be dominated by G/B slash, and there's one I found
inexplicable from VOY, that being J/Kayshik. Mind you, I only saw the
episode once, and it was isolated. I hadn't seen a Voyager ep for
some time, and didn't see another one for almost a year. In any
event, sometimes a spurt of pairings or a vocal segment of a pairing's
fans give the impression that that's all anyone's writing.
That's not to say one should or should not write a certain pairing.
Hey, if you want to write Neelix/Sh*ttl*cr*ft, knock yourself out. I
am merely pointing why, as Mark has demonstrated, sometimes other
pairings or genfic get overlooked.
Of course, to the original point, the show in production generates the
most fanfic. Notice the sudden up-surge in TOS fic when SciFi started
rerunning TOS in 90 minute segments. Consequently, I think Voyager
will fade somewhat in the coming months as people get excited (or
infuriated) by Enterprise.
Another point. People sweat by TOS and by TNG. Most people's first
love of Trek came from Kirk or Picard or both, and, quite frankly,
they were better handled. The same seems to go for DS9. They all
anjoyed their upswells, but the general concensus I saw in the past
was that fans here genuinely liked what was done with them (ST V,
Generations, and Insurrection notwithstanding).
Voyager seems to generate a lot (not all of it, but a lot) of fanfic
by pissing off its fans. The choppy way writers handled
characterization and continuity seems to inspire a lot of writers to
say "I can do that better." And they have. Voyager fanfic is some of
the best fanfic I have ever read. Obviously, Voyager's concept and
chemistry is sound, or it wouldn't resonate like it does. But at the
same time, I find it odd that the best stories of Janeway and Co. are
writtern by people not getting paid for it and will never be
recognized for the true talents that they are.
I hope they learn their lessons with Enterprise. Judging from T'Pol's
tight outfit, though, I have reasons to worry.
J
Jungle Kitty
> Another point. People sweat by TOS
So true. I am in a constant puddle over Kirk. <G>
--
Jungle Kitty
http://www.invisibleplanets.com/
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Gamin Davis
<20010822063903...@mb-mv.aol.com>:
>really (even though I only write Voyager :-). But face it -- all the
>women on TOS were ciphers.
I don't post here much any more, but this I had to get in on. JMO,
but I don't agree that just because the women in TOS were not given as much
time by the writers as those in the later shows, you can't get het pairings
from it. Uhura, in case you hadn't noticed, has *a lot* of fans. And
while Christine has fewer fans, I would venture to guess she's more popular
than some people think. There are an awful lot of het pairings that *I've*
noticed around here from TOS--S/Ch, S/U, K/U, and I even saw a K/Rand not
so long ago. I would hardly call these women "ciphers". They were
*pioneers*. They have fans who build wonderful stories around them. And
without them, you can be sure that there *wouldn't be* any TNG, DS9 or VOY
het, because *all* the TOS characters paved the way for those series,
including the women. If there were *nothing* to these women, nobody would
*bother* writing stories about them.
Gamin, just passing through
Shayney
>really (even though I only write Voyager :-). But face it -- all the
>women on TOS were ciphers.
I don't post here much any more, but this I had to get in on. JMO,
but I don't agree that just because the women in TOS were not given as much
time by the writers as those in the later shows, you can't get het pairings
from it. >>
I don't think anyone was saying *that*.
<< They were *pioneers*. >>
Yes, I agree. Just having women officers on the ship was daring...for its
time. I'm not criticizing GR for the way he depicted women. That's just the
way it was, back then. Women were nurses, secretaries, or telephone
operators...and he gave us one of each, on TOS. (And a teacher, in Amanda.
:-)
<< And without them, you can be sure that there *wouldn't be* any TNG, DS9 or
VOY
het, because *all* the TOS characters paved the way for those series,
including the women. >>
Sorry, I don't buy it. By the 1980s, when TNG was created, it would have been
shocking for there *not* to be prominent female characters. (In fact, TNG took
a lot of flack for its stereotypical portrayal of women, which is partly
responsible for the Voyager women's "masculine" career choices: captain and
engineer, instead of doctor and counselor.)
<< If there were *nothing* to these women, nobody would
*bother* writing stories about them. >>
I disagree. IME, some fans will write about anything. <g>
I wasn't saying that no one wrote TOS het. Obviously, that's not true. There
were het zines before there were slash zines, and Uhura, Rand, and Chapel were
often featured (as was Lt. Mary-Sue :-).
But, IMO, there's little in TOS to draw "shippy" fans (as they call people who
like het romance). Yes, we knew Rand pined after Kirk, and Chapel pined after
Spock, but there was never any indication that their feelings were returned
(nor any reason why they should be). "Lois and Clark" or "The X-Files" this
isn't.
But TOS *is* prime slash fodder. You have people reading and writing it who
aren't really Trek fans, just slash fans.
And what's on-screen *does* count. People turn to fanfic to see more of what
they see on-screen. There's not a lot of "Beauty and the Beast" slash (though
there is some), and there's not a lot of TOS het. Because of the way the
characters and relationships are depicted in the canon.
Michael Roy Hollihan
>
> Voyager seems to generate a lot (not all of it, but a lot) of fanfic
> by pissing off its fans. The choppy way writers handled
> characterization and continuity seems to inspire a lot of writers to
> say "I can do that better." And they have.
Yep. That's how I started. It was also that the delivered product fell
so far short of what was promised. ("Brand New! Different! Never Seen
Before!") Got a computer in May '97 and shortly thereafter found
alt.startrek.creative. I had already reached thinking I could write
better than the room full of monkeys at VOY. When I read the fanfic
posted here--no offense intended to anyone--I thought "I know I can
write better than a lot of this." ;-) So I did.
--
Michael Roy Hollihan
(Remove the NOT to REPLY)
I wish for you the courage to be unpopular. Popularity is history's
pocket change. Courage is history's true currency. (Charlton Heston)
T'Maia
"J Winter" <jwi...@one.net> wrote
>
> Hey, if you want to write Neelix/Sh*ttl*cr*ft, knock > yourself out.
J Winter, somehow I got the feeling that one day somebody is going to turn
your running gag about odd Neelix pairings into reality. You know, actually
write a Chekov/Neelix or a Neelix/Sh*ttl*cr*ft story.
T'Maia
J. Juls
T'Maia <zxm...@student.uni-tuebingen.de> wrote in message
news:9m6bcu$gjd$1...@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de...
Where did Neelix end up, anyway? Is it close enough to the Federation
that characters could go visit him?
Julie
Ananke
> any thoughts on why fanfic writers so overwhelmingly prefer to write about
> Voyager.
>
> Any takers?
Interesting question. Well...TOS seems to be a favorite of the second
majority. While I can pull a darn good Bones, I have trouble catching
any of the other character voices...and there doesn't seem to be much
backbone. It was a good techno space show. It had jokes. It had cute
guys and unladylike thighs. It wasn't a march of genius, writing wise.
I don't see any reason to add substance to a show that never had it.
TNG is my second preference, but its hard to catch an audience for.
There are set cliques...the BONCers and Imzadi fans, and you just
don't have much leeway writing for your characters. I do love writing
it, though. One in the process right now.
DS9...I admire the writers for this one. They created such
astoundingly complex, undefined, mysterious character voices that I
can't begin to try to catch any of them. I love DS9 fan fiction. Its
just hard as ptak to write.
Voyager...I don't know. I just like it. The voices are easier to
catch, the relationships a little more open-ended (if you put on
anti-J/C armor). Its just fun to write, less restrictive because of
the characters...none anywhere near angels...and the setting, away
from the usual Fleet support net. Less regulation and more Maquis
atmosphere.
J Winter
Like I said, let them knock themselves out.
J
C. Montgomery Burns
started out and the edge of Federation space. So Federation people would
need a pretty fast ship to visit him.
--
- Monty Burns
mr_b...@inregina.com
"J. Juls" <jj...@tbc.net> wrote in message
news:todl889...@corp.supernews.com...