Thank you, Macedon and Peg
Aleph Press
After watching "The Q and the Grey", I came very very close to swearing
off all Star Trek forever, and most especially Voyager.
"Otterskin" cannot *quite* make up for the fact that the canon material
sucks as badly as it does nowadays, but it helps. It helps a great deal.
Boy oh boy, do I wish that Paramount had hired you guys instead of the
bozos they have writing for Voyager now.
--
"These are only my opinions. If they were the gospel truth, your bushes
would be burning." -- Nancy Lebowitz button
"Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion." -- My favorite
bumper sticker
-- Alara Rogers, Aleph Press
al...@netcom.com
All Aleph Press stories are available at ftp.netcom.com /pub/al/aleph.
Macedon
>After watching "The Q and the Grey", I came very very close to swearing
>off all Star Trek forever, and most especially Voyager.
We won't comment on that one....
>"Otterskin" cannot *quite* make up for the fact that the canon material
>sucks as badly as it does nowadays, but it helps. It helps a great deal.
<g> Thanks, Alara.
>Boy oh boy, do I wish that Paramount had hired you guys instead of the
>bozos they have writing for Voyager now.
Maybe we'll give them some ideas. They can feel free to borrow ol'
Nanahboozhoo any time. ;>
killa...@aol.com
I would like to second this, Alara. I, too, have totally abandoned
Voyager, though I skipped out after the second half of Future's End. At
least we have the *real* Voyager here, on a.s.c.
I am currently on deadline and have not managed to read Otterskin yet,
(wanting to give the time it deserves), but I have been downloading the
parts faithfully. I will admit I took a peek and read part one, and wow,
it was wonderful. Can't wait for December 16, when I can read all these
wonderful stories that have been posted in the last 2 weeks!
Killa
Brandy
First of all, I'd like to give my sincere thanks to all of those who
have given the P/T Collective their feedback on our stories. It is a
big ego and morale booster to read all the positive comments that Kim
receives.
> =>More Good News: =>
> =>I'm also taking this opportunity to let you know that I have a solo P/T story finished and it will be posted here in the next day or two. It is > =>titled "Fever Pitch" and is for those aged 18 and over only as it contains > =>some explicit sex scenes. This story is one scenario of what might take > =>place when B'Elanna is hit by the Blood Fever. Keep an eye out for it and > =>be sure to let me know if you'd like to see more.
> =>
> =>Kim :)
>
Marianne:
> and from someone who's read it, believe me, this one is a keeper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> 10!
Add my enthusiastic praise to that one! This is definitely a keeper.
Great job, Kim!
Brandy, an infamous P/T Collective member who should really help Kim
more with newsgroups. ;)
Mysty
I have to agree, also. Voyager could be so much better, as authors like
Macedon and Peg have proven. I can't wait to read the rest of Otterskin.
Claire
Macedon
In article <19961208225...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, killa...@aol.com
says:
> ...I will admit I took a peek and read part one, and wow,
>it was wonderful. Can't wait for December 16, when I can read all these
>wonderful stories that have been posted in the last 2 weeks!
<blush> Thanks. And I hope you enjoy the whole of it.
BTW, I'll be gone for several weeks as of December 13th and unless I figure
out how to telnet in, won't be online. So if folks don't hear from me,
I'm not ignoring you. I believe Peg will still be around. :)
kimbe...@aol.com
Brandy wrote:
<<First of all, I'd like to give my sincere thanks to all of those who
have given the P/T Collective their feedback on our stories. It is a big
ego and morale booster to read all the positive comments that Kim
receives.>>
guilty of not providing author's with feedback but I'm getting better at
it and really do appreciate all the enthusiastic responses the P/T
Collective has received to their stories.
Thanks Marianne and Brandy for all your support in my endeavors make my
first solo fanfic posting to ASC.
Kim - who hopes you've all read Marianne's wonderful stories and thinks
that "infamous" is a very good description for Brandy. :)
peg...@aol.com
In article <96342.17...@psuvm.psu.edu>, Macedon <JR...@psuvm.psu.edu>
writes:
>
>>After watching "The Q and the Grey", I came very very close to swearing
>>off all Star Trek forever, and most especially Voyager.
>
>We won't comment on that one....
<G> Definitely not...
>>"Otterskin" cannot *quite* make up for the fact that the canon material
>>sucks as badly as it does nowadays, but it helps. It helps a great deal.
>
><g> Thanks, Alara.
Seconded, with many grins and bounces. Glad to know you're enjoying it so
far.
>
>>Boy oh boy, do I wish that Paramount had hired you guys instead of the
>>bozos they have writing for Voyager now.
>
>Maybe we'll give them some ideas. They can feel free to borrow ol'
>Nanahboozhoo any time. ;>
Mmmm. They might be wise not to attempt it. They can get away with
messing up Q (though one would prefer that they didn't)-- they invented
him. They mess up Nanahboozhoo, and they might find out how miserable it
is to have a Real, Genuine, Accredited Trickster Manitto on their cases.
Not a fate I'd wish on anyone... even the PTB. (Most of the time.)
Me, I just wish they'd borrow the idea of treating the characters and the
premise as though they were real, and worth investigating a bit more
complexly, and sympathetically. It would seem the "logical thing to do",
after all........
Peg
R'rain Prior
> killa...@aol.com writes:
> I would like to second this, Alara. I, too, have totally abandoned
> Voyager, though I skipped out after the second half of Future's End. At
> least we have the *real* Voyager here, on a.s.c.
All right, I've had enough. I will venture to be the first person to *defend*
Voyager on here. Yes, the stories posted here have 10 times as much depth
as any of the episodes thus far, but I *will not* give up on the show so long
as it entertains me. Yes, they really screwed up Q, but we'll just pretend
that the episode existed in an entirely separate reality and leave it at that.
I don't think that its sufficient reason to give up on a series that, we must
admit, prompted a lot of very, very good fanfic. I, for one, would like to support
the series. It's not award-winning drama, but it's some pretty good escapism once
a week.
Okay, rant over <smile>
> I am currently on deadline and have not managed to read Otterskin yet,
> (wanting to give the time it deserves), but I have been downloading the
> parts faithfully. I will admit I took a peek and read part one, and wow,
> it was wonderful. Can't wait for December 16, when I can read all these
> wonderful stories that have been posted in the last 2 weeks!
On a much brighter note, Otterskin is what I *wish* Voyager was. If Voyager was
as good as this story I would not need to defend it because everyone would already
be glued to their television sets the moment it came on. Bravo, to both
of you. I've been waiting a while for this one <smile>
R'rain
Rebekah Reese
peg...@aol.com wrote:
>In article <96342.17...@psuvm.psu.edu>, Macedon <JR...@psuvm.psu.edu>
>writes:
>>>"Otterskin" cannot *quite* make up for the fact that the canon material
>>>sucks as badly as it does nowadays, but it helps. It helps a great deal.
>>
>><g> Thanks, Alara.
>
>Seconded, with many grins and bounces. Glad to know you're enjoying it so
>far.
>>
>>>Boy oh boy, do I wish that Paramount had hired you guys instead of the
>>>bozos they have writing for Voyager now.
OK. Question. This is the second or third time I've heard reference
to this "Otterskin". Due to the inconsistancies of my newsserver, I
miss 50% or more of what goes through here. Could someone inform me
what it's about and is it at the ftp site already or where can I find
it? (Nice run-on sentence there. <g>) Thanks!
Rebekah
rer...@comteck.com or
7620...@compuserve.com
"Have we come so far that we've forgotten
what it's like to move forward on a dim
chance and a bright hope?"
Natalie Kim Bjorklund
>>>After watching "The Q and the Grey", I came very very close to swearing
>>>off all Star Trek forever, and most especially Voyager.
Now now, the Q and the Grey had about 36 really good seconds. Seriously
though, the bedroom scene where janeway was putting Q off had me in
stitches.
>Mmmm. They might be wise not to attempt it. They can get away with
>messing up Q (though one would prefer that they didn't)-- they invented
>him. They mess up Nanahboozhoo, and they might find out how miserable it
>is to have a Real, Genuine, Accredited Trickster Manitto on their cases.
>Not a fate I'd wish on anyone... even the PTB. (Most of the time.)
My experience with Nanahboozhoo is limited to the many little tales they
show on Canadian Sesame Street and a few books my daughter read about
five years ago. We loved the stories then but it wasn't until Chakotay
had to deal with the character in this story that I suddenly realised all
the adult level implications Nanahboozhoo could have. (and I don't
mean erotica type implications for you NC-17 obsessives!) I am eagerly
awaiting the rest of the tale now.
But Joe, are you sure it's a wise idea to be messing Star Trek with
Nanahboozhoo? I mean from what I've read of him, he could teach the Q a
few tricks.
Natalie
Macedon
> They mess up Nanahboozhoo, and they might find out how miserable it
>is to have a Real, Genuine, Accredited Trickster Manitto on their cases.
>Not a fate I'd wish on anyone... even the PTB. (Most of the time.)
<chuckle> True. He's not one to mess with, even when he's feeling
playful. Maybe *especially* when he's feeling playful.
Helen Anthony
killa...@aol.com wrote:
> I would like to second this, Alara. I, too, have totally abandoned
> Voyager, though I skipped out after the second half of Future's End. At
> least we have the *real* Voyager here, on a.s.c.
I don't look at fan fiction as a replacement for nor an alternative to
"The Show". I consider fan fiction to be a supplement to a show I enjoy
very much. I've not yet missed an episode of "Voyager". And while
there are some episodes I'll probably never bother to watch again I
would have to say that on the whole it has entertained me well.
For me the show's the thing. Fan fiction is just the icing on the cake.
Helen
lee
> Helen Anthony (hant...@ionet.net) wrote: (a lot more, but the key point is...)
> : For me the show's the thing. Fan fiction is just the icing on the cake.
>
>Aleph Press wrote:
> I would love to feel that way. And about DS9, I do. But Voyager died for
> me when they killed Q. Even the absolute worst TNG episodes were not as
> horrible as that.
Though I'm glad to hear some folks find Voyager satisfying the way it is (to help keep it
on the air), I've got to second the opinion that I much prefer the fanfiction. For me, the
stories present the characters...in their entirety. Personalities, quirks, faults and all.
They also provide entertaining adventures (some better than others, granted) where, unlike
the TV series, I don't always know how its going to end 5 minutes (or 5 paragraphs) into
it.
...medium flame on, I'm realizing as I write this...
I also GREATLY appreciate the avoidance of technobabble. Its a crutch for the writers of
Voyager, an quick and easy solution to neatly wrap up the formula plot device of the week.
Its also an annoying insult to my intelligence (perhaps why I haven't bothered to watch
the show in several weeks...I'll just read the fanfic). ...flame off...
Anyway, yes, THANK YOU Joe and Peg for giving us not only a good Voyager story, but just a
good story. You bring the characters the life they deserve (the characters, as conceived
are both very interesting individuals and a team) but the Voyager writers are incapable
and/or prevented from providing.
Macedon
In article <58h3up$e...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, umbj...@cc.umanitoba.ca
(Natalie Kim Bjorklund) says:
>My experience with Nanahboozhoo is limited to the many little tales they
>show on Canadian Sesame Street and a few books my daughter read about
>five years ago. We loved the stories then but it wasn't until Chakotay
>had to deal with the character in this story that I suddenly realised all
>the adult level implications Nanahboozhoo could have. (and I don't
>mean erotica type implications for you NC-17 obsessives!) I am eagerly
>awaiting the rest of the tale now.
Nanahboozhoo is the Algonquian version of Coyote. I mention that because
Coyote is more familiar, but Coyote is originally plains. These days,
tribes borrow stories from each other.
>But Joe, are you sure it's a wise idea to be messing Star Trek with
>Nanahboozhoo? I mean from what I've read of him, he could teach the Q a
>few tricks.
That's about the size of it. ;>
Aleph Press
Helen Anthony (hant...@ionet.net) wrote:
: killa...@aol.com wrote:
:
: > I would like to second this, Alara. I, too, have totally abandoned
: > Voyager, though I skipped out after the second half of Future's End. At
: > least we have the *real* Voyager here, on a.s.c.
: I don't look at fan fiction as a replacement for nor an alternative to
: "The Show". I consider fan fiction to be a supplement to a show I enjoy
: very much. I've not yet missed an episode of "Voyager". And while
: there are some episodes I'll probably never bother to watch again I
: would have to say that on the whole it has entertained me well.
: For me the show's the thing. Fan fiction is just the icing on the cake.
I would love to feel that way. And about DS9, I do. But Voyager died for
me when they killed Q. Even the absolute worst TNG episodes were not as
horrible as that.
Episodes like the salamanders I could forgive, because they feature
people we get to see every week, so if the episode ruins their character
no problem, there's many other episodes with that character to look at.
But when you destroy a guest star who only shows up once a year,
contradict everything that's been implied about him, destroy the mystery
essential to the character and replace it with something stupid and
poorly thought out... well, let's just say that episode made me ill.
Now, a show can't be *too* good. I have absolutely no impulse to write B5
or X-Files because I don't see anything wrong with those shows that
allows me room to step in and fix stuff. :-) But when a show demonstrates
such a total lack of respect for its audience's intelligence... then the
only thing that can salvage it at all for me is good fanfic.
Note that these are *my* opinions. Your mileage may vary. I don't expect
people who are not Q fans to object as strenuously to that episode as I
did, since it didn't ruin anyone but Q. I also know peple who object as
strenuously as I did to that episode to DS9, and I totally disagree with
them. So no, not all of us must choose. But for some of us, Paramount has
forced the choice on us.
ale...@aol.com
In article <32aee6aa...@news.netusa1.net>, rer...@comteck.com wrote:
> Question. This is the second or third time I've heard reference
>to this "Otterskin". Due to the inconsistancies of my newsserver, I
>miss 50% or more of what goes through here. Could someone inform me
>what it's about and is it at the ftp site already or where can I find
>it? (Nice run-on sentence there.
I too was getting very frustrated with constantly having to email authors
for parts I missed.....*Until* (grand music sweeps in the background) some
infinitely kind soul posted information about the Dejanews website
(http://www.dejanews.com/). Just type in relevant word or words from the
title, and you get the whole thing. Now I never miss the stories everyone
is talking about!
Alexas
The preceding message was paid for by Formerly Frustrated Fanfic
Aficionados, Ltd. :)
Rosemary
Aleph Press wrote:
>
> After watching "The Q and the Grey", I came very very close to swearing
> off all Star Trek forever, and most especially Voyager.
>
> sucks as badly as it does nowadays, but it helps. It helps a great deal.
>
> bozos they have writing for Voyager now.
>
>
--
Alara is right of course. I have the luck to live in a country that has
no Trek showing currently, and I can't afford the videos, so all my
Voyager comes from fan fic. Wonderful, wonderful fan fic from Peg and
Little Otter amongst others: you know who you are. How lucky we are to
have great writers writing for us. More, More, Bravo etc
Rosemary Cullen < ara...@xtra.co.nz>
shan...@pnx.com
On Mon, 09 Dec 1996 17:34:10 -0600, Helen Anthony <hant...@ionet.net>
wrote:
>
>I don't look at fan fiction as a replacement for nor an alternative to
>"The Show". I consider fan fiction to be a supplement to a show I enjoy
>very much. I've not yet missed an episode of "Voyager". And while
>there are some episodes I'll probably never bother to watch again I
>would have to say that on the whole it has entertained me well.
>
>For me the show's the thing. Fan fiction is just the icing on the cake.
>
I agree with Helen. I love the shows, all of them. Some are better
than others. I love fanfic to provide the relationship stuff the shows
won't, plus the speculative stuff. And it satisfies my yearning for
Trek in between episodes and movies.
Joyce Harmon
In article <32ade9c7...@news.dx.net>, shan...@pnx.com says...
And, of course, the fanfic helps us Read Things into the episodes, which
makes it more interesting.....
Joyce
Cecilia Lee
I have to agree with Helen. Voyager binds me in a way no other show has
for 20 years. This is not to say it's the best show to come along in 20
years, but it has caught me up in its tale. Fan fiction is a wonderful
supplement to the show. But just like the show, there are some stories
that enhance my enjoyment, and others which I cringe at.
Alara, it's a shame that the Voyager Q episodes have turned you off. It
seems a little harsh. I'm a Q fan (not meaning to play 'I'm a bigger fan
than you' contest) and even more so because of the two Voyager episodes. I
found Q's arrogance, thoughtless humour and overbearing attitude balanced
with a more thoughtful investigation of the Q continuum. Some of the
revealed mysteries of Q have not diminished my interest, but have led me to
ponder more on Q's society as a whole, rather than Q as a quirky (most
lovingly said) individual. This has provided a better understanding to his
past actions, which I appreciate. I have found his presence on Voyager
more meaningful than his appearances on TNG or DS-9 and I will continue to
look forward to Q's charm on Voyager. And if anything else, they do
provide many great howls. (I enjoy a good laugh).
I have not yet read Joe and Peg's Otterskin story, as I prefer to wait til
I receive it whole. But if they are like Talking Stick, Cherished
Alienation and Red Queen's Repose, it will be a treat indeed. These and
many other stories expand on my perspective of the Voyager characters, and
I find the stories I enjoy best, are ones that best capture the character's
essence. But obviously the show itself provides the wonderful foundation
for this Voyager fanfic world.
So as Helen says. Must we choose? Not when I can have both, and sometimes
the best of both.
Cecilia Lee
Aleph Press
Cecilia Lee (Cecil...@msn.com) wrote:
: I have to agree with Helen. Voyager binds me in a way no other show has
: for 20 years. This is not to say it's the best show to come along in 20
: years, but it has caught me up in its tale. Fan fiction is a wonderful
: supplement to the show. But just like the show, there are some stories
: that enhance my enjoyment, and others which I cringe at.
I think all of us can say this about a show... I was heavily into a
*very* primitive show with an incredibly number of scientific idiocies,
characters who we never got to see do anything, and all kinds of annoying
stuff for seven years, and I still am fond of it. :-)
: Alara, it's a shame that the Voyager Q episodes have turned you off. It
: seems a little harsh. I'm a Q fan (not meaning to play 'I'm a bigger fan
: than you' contest) and even more so because of the two Voyager episodes. I
: found Q's arrogance, thoughtless humour and overbearing attitude balanced
: with a more thoughtful investigation of the Q continuum. Some of the
: revealed mysteries of Q have not diminished my interest, but have led me to
: ponder more on Q's society as a whole, rather than Q as a quirky (most
: lovingly said) individual. This has provided a better understanding to his
: past actions, which I appreciate. I have found his presence on Voyager
: more meaningful than his appearances on TNG or DS-9 and I will continue to
: look forward to Q's charm on Voyager. And if anything else, they do
: provide many great howls. (I enjoy a good laugh).
See, I loved "Death Wish." I agree with you that *it* was intriguing,
that the mysteries it revealed about Q gave rise to even more interesting
questions, and most importantly, that the hints it dropped about Q
socieety and Q's role in it were totally consistent with what we'd
learned before, while at the same time being new. They offered a new way
to look at information we already had.
"Q and Grey" *contradicts* information we already had. It is, basically,
not about the Q, but about a bunch of powerful aliens who happen to be
idiots. I never had a problem with *Q* occasionally being an idiot,
because I figured he's a young and immature member of his species. Q and
Grey says no he's not, they're all that stupid. It contradicts True Q in
that it says two Q have never reproduced, and implies that either a
human-raised Q or a child of two Qs would have an enormous inpact on the
society. So why didn't Amanda have such an impact? It contradicts Death
Wish in that oone member of the Continuum had been trying and failing to
kill himself for centuries, and yet in one year the Continuum come up
with truly nasty weapons to use against one another. It contradicts
Roddenberry's vision in which species evolve toward a point where
violence becomes foolish and unnecessary, by implying that beings who are
suppsed to be incredibly advanced cannot figure out a way to solve their
problems except by resorting to war.
As a fanfic writer, I synthesize all the information that comes to me to
try to present a consistent vision of a character or a society or a
technology. Sometimes the writers throw one a contradiction, and you have
to work around it. For instance, I initially saw Garak being interested
in Ziyal as a contradiction to a *very* obvious subtext of Garak being
homosexual, until I came up with an explanation that allowed both to
exist without contradiction. I initially saw the presnece of a Borg Queen
as a contradiction to everything we'd learned about the Borg, until I
figured out a way to get both pieces of information to co-exist. Fan
writing necessitates being able to rework your vision in order to
incorporate new pieces of canon.
Well, I've tried and I've tried, and i cannot see any way that the Q we
saw in "Q and Grey" could be the same people that they've been implied to
be all along. This episode contradicts entirely too much, in letter and
in spirit. And I could forgive it if what it produced was *more*
interesting than what it left behind. Certainly I could have gotten
behind an episode that revealed that the Continuum were gods with feet of
clay; they'd be uninteresting if they were really as perfect and
omnipotent as they pretend to be. But if they are as incompetent as they
are in Q and Grey, they cannot possibly have the power we've seen them have.
The last episode I decided didn't exist was also a Voyager episode, the
one with the salamanders. The reason that deeply offended me was that it,
too, contradicted everyything we'd learned. Humans, according to every
episode of Trek but that one, will evolve into higher, more intelligent
energy beings. But that episode said we will evolve into salamanders.
Well, what exactly is the point to human striving if in the end we're all
going to be salamanders? This contradicted a basic tenet of Trek.
However, it *didn't* trash my favorite character, so as much as i
despised it it didn't turn me off to Voyager entirely.
Do you see what I'm saying? When they don't play fair with us, when they
contradict everything we already know about the universe, we're pushed to
the point where we have to say either, "Well, none of it matters, it's
just a TV show", or we have to start picking and choosing what parts of
it are 'real' for purposes of our fanfic. They may pretend that the
salamander episode never happened, but i really really doubt they will
ignore the events of Q and Grey next time we see Q. This means they've
just ruined any future appearance of Q, because I will be watching John
de Lancie play an entirely different character than the one I fell in
love with. And if they've ruined my favorite character, how long before
they destroy Janeway even more utterly than some of the more idiotic
episodes already have? How can I retain my liking for these characters if
I'm watching them do things that contradict every rule of common sense?
At that point, I have to bow out and stick to the fanfic, because I like
the characters too much to see idiots who I and half the people on this
newsgrup could write circles around destroy them.
: I have not yet read Joe and Peg's Otterskin story, as I prefer to wait til
: I receive it whole. But if they are like Talking Stick, Cherished
: Alienation and Red Queen's Repose, it will be a treat indeed. These and
: many other stories expand on my perspective of the Voyager characters, and
: I find the stories I enjoy best, are ones that best capture the character's
: essence. But obviously the show itself provides the wonderful foundation
: for this Voyager fanfic world.
: So as Helen says. Must we choose? Not when I can have both, and sometimes
: the best of both.
I'm not arguing that anyone else must choose, just that I must. I might
try watching a few episodes again and see if it gets any better-- god
knows I loved "The Chute", so it's not like I think this season is
irredeemable. But when Paramount has no respect for me and my love of the
characters, and writes them poorly and inconsistently, why should I
continue to support them? Life's too short to watch your favorite
characters get trashed by bad writers.
thom...@gnatnet.net
>Fan fiction is a wonderful
>supplement to the show. But just like the show, there are some stories
>that enhance my enjoyment, and others which I cringe at.
yager episodes. ... And if anything else, they do
>provide many great howls. (I enjoy a good laugh).
t best capture the character's essence. But obviously the show itself provides the wonderful foundation for this Voyager fanfic wor=
ld.
>So as Helen says. Must we choose? Not when I can have both, and sometimes
>the best of both.
>
I must agree. I've loved Voyager from the start, but since I've gotten
in with the fan fiction, I love it even more. (and on the plus, its
something to do during those long stretches between Wednesdays, and
during the summer). I'm hooked on Voyager, depsite some of the horrible
plots they had in the first season (don't come after me on that one, it
definitly has improved since then!!) If you didn't like the Q episodes
PRETEND THEY NEVER HAPPENED!! Thats what I do when I don't like an
episode.
Sforzando
"If I were captain of this ship, the men would wear no pants!"