Slash in the news again
Britta
SLASHLIT: WHEN GEEKS GET SEXY
Kate Mercier, Fabula
A new genre of online fiction in which anonymous authors --
mostly women -- pair two male pop culture figures in sexual
relationships (such as Kirk and Spock of Star Trek) is exploding
in geek circles.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=9549
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jat (Jane)
Jane, dazed
---
story page:
http://homestead.deja.com/user.jat_sapphire/index.html
On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 20:25:27 Britta wrote:
>Check this out.
>
>SLASHLIT: WHEN GEEKS GET SEXY
>Kate Mercier, Fabula
>A new genre of online fiction in which anonymous authors --
>mostly women -- pair two male pop culture figures in sexual
>relationships (such as Kirk and Spock of Star Trek) is exploding
>in geek circles.
>
>http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=9549
>
>
>
>
>
>Messages from this list are mirrored on the ASCEM newsgroup.
>Read http://www.egroups.com/files/ASCEML/faq.txt for more
>information about your subscription to ASCEML and ASCEM.
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>
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a. h. vericker
----- Original Message -----
From: jat (Jane) <jat_sa...@my-deja.com>
To: <ASC...@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ASCEML] Slash in the news again
> Wow, am I in geek circles? I never knew.
>
> Jane, dazed
Me too. Geek? Nerd? Not me, lol,lol
Helen: dazed as well....
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Liz
people to make fun of us old middle-aged ladies in pink collar jobs who
satisfied our frustrated libidos by writing about hot hunka-hunka's, but to
claim it was started by HIGH SCHOOL CHILDREN???? I'm gonna have to go
smack somebody with my steno pad.
///
\\\
///
\\\
Liz (smoke rising)
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J S Cavalcante
>Kate Mercier, Fabula
Who's callin' whom a geek?
I'm an artist. I write the stuff. She *studies* it and writes *about* it.
I ask you.
J S Cavlacante
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J S Cavalcante
>Uhhh, high school kids created K/S??? Now I'm pissed. It's one thing for
people to make fun of us old middle-aged ladies in pink collar jobs who
satisfied our frustrated libidos by writing about hot hunka-hunka's, but to
claim it was started by HIGH SCHOOL CHILDREN???? I'm gonna have to go
smack somebody with my steno pad.<
Liz--LOL--but I think the author just left out one word.
I think she meant to say, in the last sentence of the first paragraph:
"These are the people who LATER created and populated the world of Slash .
. . :
I sure hope so. Otherwise, I'll hold her while you smack her with your
steno pad. <g>
LL&P
J S Cavalcante
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Liz
>Liz--LOL--but I think the author just left out one word.
>
>I think she meant to say, in the last sentence of the first paragraph:
>"These are the people who LATER created and populated the world of Slash .
>steno pad. <g>
I wondered about that, but it didn't seem to fit in with her apparent age,
which I'm assuming is still fairly young. It sounds as though she is
equating herself to some extent with the nerds and geeks who allegedly
'created' slash, and she would have be to a whole lot older than she sounds
to be in that age group. Not to mention, of course, that we were neither
nerds nor geeks, for the most part. I wrote to her directly--it will be
interesting to see how she responds. Or if she responds.
Liz
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Liz
>And I don't really know what a "graphic novel" is. The novels I read were
>written in words, not pictures.
>
Like a book-length comic strip. Elfquest was one of the first of the
graphic novels and has become a long-running series with I don't know how
many volumes out now. There are Batman graphic novels, Star Wars, other
characters and universes I've never heard of, and some that are as original
as any other novel, just in picture and balloon text form.
A friend and I were doing an original one some years back--I was writing
the story and she was doing the artwork, and then both of us got caught up
in RL and it never went anywhere after that. Too bad, because I think it
would have been publishable and good.
Liz
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J S Cavalcante
>I wrote to her directly--it will be
interesting to see how she responds. Or if she responds.
<
Oh GOOD. I suppose you asked her what age group she's in? LOL!
But you know, I *did* read the Hitchhiker's Guide. I think maybe I was in
college by the time it came out, though.
And I don't really know what a "graphic novel" is. The novels I read were
written in words, not pictures.
Yeah, I think that reporter talked only to neofen who *started* online.
That may be where she got that idea. Her research didn't go very deep,
unfortunately.
LL&P
J S
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Liz
>I wondered about that, but it didn't seem to fit in with her apparent age,
>which I'm assuming is still fairly young. It sounds as though she is
>equating herself to some extent with the nerds and geeks who allegedly
>'created' slash, and she would have be to a whole lot older than she sounds
>to be in that age group.
To my great surprise, Kate Mercier, the author of the article in Fabula,
responded to my email almost immediately. She is twenty-five, about what I
had suspected. She reiterated that she thought 'nerds and geeks' had
created slash, but then said she hadn't meant to imply that they
'established' it. Not sure what kind of distinction she is making there.
Anyway, I sent another message right back to her and said, among other
things, that I thought most of us would be surprised to hear that we were
'geeks.' I'm not sure how she defines that, but I did think the rest of her
article was perceptive, especially the points about the male characters
being stilted in their emotional and sexual responses, and slash authors
giving them more rounded and complex personalities, or something like that.
I don't have her aritlce in front of me any more.
Interesting article, at any rate. Wonder what kind of reaction it will stir
up.
Liz
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T'Rhys
>
>Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com
>>Uhhh, high school kids created K/S??? Now I'm pissed. It's one thing for
>people to make fun of us old middle-aged ladies in pink collar jobs who
>satisfied our frustrated libidos by writing about hot hunka-hunka's, but to
>claim it was started by HIGH SCHOOL CHILDREN???? I'm gonna have to go
>smack somebody with my steno pad.<
>
>
>I think she meant to say, in the last sentence of the first paragraph:
>"These are the people who LATER created and populated the world of Slash .
Oh, I see what Liz meant. I read the article's "These are the people"
sentence as a reference to adult geeks, not teeny boppers. Because of the
self-reference in the first line again - no such thing as slash in Fabula's
high school days (assuming she isn't currently only about 19 or 20, of
course <g>), so I sort of figured she wasn't referring to her geek
contemporaries back then.
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
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T'Rhys
>
>
>From: jat (Jane) <jat_sa...@my-deja.com>
>
>> Wow, am I in geek circles? I never knew.
>>
>> Jane, dazed
>
>Me too. Geek? Nerd? Not me, lol,lol
>Helen: dazed as well....
>
Technically Spock is both a geek and a nerd, although much sexier than
most. <g>
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
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T'Rhys
>
>Uhhh, high school kids created K/S??? Now I'm pissed. It's one thing for
>people to make fun of us old middle-aged ladies in pink collar jobs who
>satisfied our frustrated libidos by writing about hot hunka-hunka's, but to
>claim it was started by HIGH SCHOOL CHILDREN????
I didn't see anything saying that in the article. Fabula only mentions high
school in the first line, and it was in reference to herself being part geek.
>I'm gonna have to go
>smack somebody with my steno pad.
>
No no, just take away their pocket protectors. <g>
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
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T'Rhys
>
>And I don't really know what a "graphic novel" is. The novels I read were
>written in words, not pictures.
"Graphic novel" is actually a fairly new category distinction coined to
describe what is basically a very long comic book published in book form.
Elfquest and Sandman come to mind as being the most widely known of that
genre.
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
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T'Rhys
>
>She reiterated that she thought 'nerds and geeks' had
>created slash,
I actually sort of agree there. I define a nerd or geek as someone who,
usually because they are bookworms or unusually intelligent, doesn't fit in
with their contemporaries. That could certainly describe a great many slash
fen (me included).
> but then said she hadn't meant to imply that they
>'established' it. Not sure what kind of distinction she is making there.
>
Neither am I. Sounds like splitting hairs to me.
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
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Liz
>what the Japanese have had for a long time. Theirs are called "manga".
Kay Reynolds of Donnelly Press, one of the earliest of the graphic novel publishers,
used to talk about the Japanese versions. The original creator of Elfquest (not
Richard and Windy Pini), whose name I'm afraid I can't remember right now, was
a fan of manga, I believe.
Liz
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T'Rhys
>
>Like a book-length comic strip. Elfquest was one of the first of the
>graphic novels and has become a long-running series with I don't know how
>many volumes out now.
Sixteen, but about half of them are black and white reprintings of the
earlier color ones rather than new ones.
> There are Batman graphic novels, Star Wars, other
>characters and universes I've never heard of, and some that are as original
>as any other novel, just in picture and balloon text form.
>
Come to think of it, the graphic novel could just be an American version of
what the Japanese have had for a long time. Theirs are called "manga".
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
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Liz
>>created slash,
>
>I actually sort of agree there. I define a nerd or geek as someone who,
>usually because they are bookworms or unusually intelligent, doesn't fit in
>with their contemporaries. That could certainly describe a great many slash
>fen (me included).
It would have described me as well, at the time K/S was first being read, but
not, I think, many of the others. The suggestion that all K/S fen were middle-aged
women in pink collar jobs was ridiculous, but the women I knew at that time
would have been ROFL at the idea of being called geeks or nerds. Perhaps the
word is used in a different context today.
Liz
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Laura Goodwin
> Who's callin' whom a geek?
>
> I'm an artist. I write the stuff. She *studies* it and writes *about* it.
>
> I ask you.
LOL! :::applause!::: Right you are! :)
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Laura Goodwin
> Anyway, I sent another message right back to her and said, among other
> things, that I thought most of us would be surprised to hear that we were
> 'geeks.' I'm not sure how she defines that, but I did think the rest of her
> article was perceptive, especially the points about the male characters
> being stilted in their emotional and sexual responses, and slash authors
> giving them more rounded and complex personalities
Well, thanks for the heads-up to the article writer.
I have to disagree about the emotional content of slash being some kind
of antidote to the lack of emotional expression in the characters, as if
we are giving them something they don't already have. I'm not going to
say a word about other popular slash heroes, but (for example) James T.
Kirk is a very emotional guy, and TOS Trek folks in general were very
open about their feelings, even Spock, who was supposed to be
otherwise. *They* don't need fans to write stories which give them
well-rounded personalities. Kirk not only has had a very lively
emotional life on display all along, but (in general) he has more
personality than most real people do!
What I ~add~ with my trekfic is the behind-the-scenes stuff, and I like
to do sexual fantasies and parodies. Using popular characters for these
stories is a kind of shortcut for getting to the meat of the point one
wishes to make. Since the characters and their worlds are already very
well known to the people who are likely to be reading, you can cut right
to the story in progress.
Since lots of women like to think of (popular and famous) guys together,
and since the porn industry completely failed to supply us, we been
writing our own. Big mystery! It's entertainment! We are entertaining
ourselves. What's so complicated about that?
BTW, It's very wrong for women to speak of men as if they are
unemotional, and in need of our help to find expression. Men are in
fact the flamboyant sex, and have littered museums, libraries, and art
galleries world-wide with evidence of their emotional richness. Two
words: Taj Mahal.
Slash writers are the ones with a need to express ourselves. Slash is
about *us*, not about the characters we love. It's a form of
self-expression that lots of people are passionate about. The relative
artistic merit of the work is not the real justification for it. The
reasons for slash fanfic will be found in the same place where you keep
your own emotional needs. It's not about any fictional person, it's
about you.
--
Laura Goodwin
http://lauragoodwin.org/tos.html
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Kaki
----------
From: Liz[SMTP:li...@crosswinds.net]
Reply To: ASC...@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 1:53 AM
To: ASC...@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [ASCEML] Slash in the news again
Anyway, I sent another message right back to her and said, among other
things, that I thought most of us would be surprised to hear that we were
'geeks.'
Maybe most would be, but some of us are more-than-happy to be geeks. I
used to hate it, but I'm pretty much the epitome of one, or at least I was
in high school! academic, even technical, carried my calculator
everywhere, wore high-water pants when they were unacceptable (OK, I was 6'
tall and long enough ones were really hard to find) and longer ones when
highwaters came in, didn't fit in in highschool anyway....
I'd have to say that all the people I know (only) off-line that like Star
Trek fit the geek mold, too!
Kaki
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Kaki
----------
From: T'Rhys[SMTP:tkn...@ix.netcom.com]
Reply To: ASC...@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 11:48 AM
To: ASC...@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [ASCEML] Slash in the news again
Technically Spock is both a geek and a nerd, although much sexier than
most. <g>
Yes, he inspired me. <g>
Kaki
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a. h. vericker
----- Original Message -----
From: Kaki <ka...@ipass.net>
To: <ASC...@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: [ASCEML] Slash in the news again
>
>
> ----------
> From: T'Rhys[SMTP:tkn...@ix.netcom.com]
> Reply To: ASC...@egroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 11:48 AM
> To: ASC...@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ASCEML] Slash in the news again
> Technically Spock is both a geek and a nerd, although much sexier than
> most. <g>
> Yes, he inspired me. <g>
> Kaki
I never saw Spock this way at all...
sexy as hell is how I see him....Kirk? well, that goes without saying <g> I
saw Spock as being different but
NEVER a geek (IMHO)
Helen
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Liz
>Anyway, I sent another message right back to her and said, among other
>things, that I thought most of us would be surprised to hear that we were
>'geeks.'
>
>Maybe most would be, but some of us are more-than-happy to be geeks.
I would consider myself to be fairly geeky too, always have done. But many
of the non-net fans I know don't, and of the ones I knew during the early
K/S years, few would have. They were ordinary mothers with families and
jobs and the same kinds of daily concerns that most other women had . . .
but we all had this weird little thing we liked to read, that we didn't
dare tell anyone else about, that we hid from our husbands and our other
friends and our pastor's wife and . . . In fact, I was considered lucky by
most of my friends because my husband knew about my fascination with K/S
and hadn't kicked me out or hauled me off to church for counseling. Times
have sure changed.
Liz
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J S Cavalcante
whole lot of ppl have never heard of this before, and need to tell
the
world when they find it.<
ROFL! So true. Our response used to be to *not* tell the world. I wonder
what has changed?
J S
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Lauri Wilson
> >usually because they are bookworms or unusually intelligent, doesn't fit in
>
> >with their contemporaries. That could certainly describe a great many slash
>
> >fen (me included).
>
> It would have described me as well, at the time K/S was first being read, but
> not, I think, many of the others. The suggestion that all K/S fen were middle-aged
> women in pink collar jobs was ridiculous, but the women I knew at that time
> would have been ROFL at the idea of being called geeks or nerds. Perhaps the
> word is used in a different context today.
>
> Liz
>
Please forgive a newbie, but I'd love to know more about how all this
began. I kind of left off in the old pre-Internet TOS days, knowing
that there was some fan fiction being written, some of it by women, and
some of it about Kirk/Spock, but I suddenly turned around all these
years later and found this whole amazing world. I'd like to know how it
developed as well as who we are in terms of gender, age, etc. (as much
as that's possible without compromising anybody's privacy).
Lienor
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bran...@aol.com
something cerebral for its own sake. That is, if no money were to be
made from computer programming, techie geeks would still be coding,
just for the fun of it. Studying Old English poetry is my geek
credential. Slash seems to fit in there somewhere too.
A strange article. It seems addressed to the geeky and fannish...but
then, if you are geeky and fannish, you are probably aware of slash
already. I keep seeing these slash discovery articles -- apparently a
whole lot of ppl have never heard of this before, and need to tell
the
world when they find it. Too bad she had her history wrong.
B
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Rak...@aol.com
> The definition of "geek" that I work with is: someone who persues
> something cerebral for its own sake. That is, if no money were to be
> made from computer programming, techie geeks would still be coding,
> just for the fun of it. Studying Old English poetry is my geek
> credential. Slash seems to fit in there somewhere too.
Yeah, works for me. I'd add that people of geekish persuasion (me included)
also tend to be interested in how something works. That might mean the
grammar of a human language, or function calls, or cleaning spark plugs.
Spock seems very happy taking stuff apart and working on it. Uhura also.
Scotty mais oui. I'd say Tom Paris is a geek but Harry Kim not so much. The
EMH definitely, Chakotay only when he has to.
>
> A strange article. It seems addressed to the geeky and fannish...but
> then, if you are geeky and fannish, you are probably aware of slash
> already. I keep seeing these slash discovery articles -- apparently a
> whole lot of ppl have never heard of this before, and need to tell
> the
> world when they find it. Too bad she had her history wrong.
Yes to the discovery part. I have wondered if part of the motivation for
such articles is finding slash *on the net*. I think many have heard of
'zines; perhaps not so many know there is a parallel community that's wired.
If you start with the assumption that fanfic writers (or did she specify
slash writers? I forget) are pink-collar women, you might extend the
stereotype to presume that the pink-collar folk are working merrily on their
IBM Selectrics, changing typewriter ribbons as needed.
Crikey.
raku
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Liz
>Yeah, works for me. I'd add that people of geekish persuasion (me included)
>also tend to be interested in how something works. That might mean the
>grammar of a human language, or function calls, or cleaning spark plugs.
Hmmm, a kindred spirit here for sure. Especially the function calls bit, a
fellow programmer, I see.
>If you start with the assumption that fanfic writers (or did she specify
>slash writers? I forget) are pink-collar women, you might extend the
>stereotype to presume that the pink-collar folk are working merrily on their
>IBM Selectrics, changing typewriter ribbons as needed.
In her letter back to me, she made a definite distinction between fanfic
and slash, as though they were completely separate categories. Just goes to
show how little she really knew about what she was writing. I don't think
she ever heard the 'pink-collar' premise, but I'm grinning at your retro
definition of geek.
Liz
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selek
"J S Cavalcante" <10276...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:200008040019_...@compuserve.com...
| >SLASHLIT: WHEN GEEKS GET SEXY
| >Kate Mercier, Fabula
|
| Who's callin' whom a geek?
|
| I'm an artist. I write the stuff. She *studies* it and writes
*about* it.
|
| I ask you.
|
| J S Cavlacante
My vote is for you!
Selek
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Helsos
>>And I don't really know what a "graphic novel" is. The novels I read were
>>written in words, not pictures.
>>
Perhaps it is used in the sense that is often applied to movies/TV
"Graphic" in
this case being a shorthand term for graphic sex or graphic violence. Not a
correct terminology; gratuitious would probably be closer to the truth...
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Helsos
>
>Technically Spock is both a geek and a nerd, although much sexier than
>most. <g>
>
LOL, very true. Maybe its because he doesn't wear eyeglasses and doesn't have
pimples.
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Rak...@aol.com
>
> In her letter back to me, she made a definite distinction between fanfic
> and slash, as though they were completely separate categories. Just goes to
> show how little she really knew about what she was writing. I don't think
> she ever heard the 'pink-collar' premise, but I'm grinning at your retro
> definition of geek.
Well, there was this religious moment in C++ class, when I thought to myself
Hey! It's a language, just a regular one! You don't have to worry about
some loops that conjugate with avoir and other loops that conjugate with
etre, about how sometimes if you use the word integer you mean "I've had
enough food thank you" and other times if you use the word integer you've
said "I'm pregnant." (Especially surprising when the speaker is male.)
I see why the web author thinks some fanfic is fanfic and other fanfic is
slash fanfic, but it *is* all fanfic, given that we're writing about
characters that come from somewhere else and don't exactly belong to us.
raku, who explained to a Parisian waiter once that I was dead, rather than
that I was finished eating
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Kaki
----------
From: a. h. vericker[SMTP:av...@prodigy.net]
Reply To: ASC...@egroups.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Kaki <ka...@ipass.net>
>
> ----------
> From: T'Rhys[SMTP:tkn...@ix.netcom.com]
> Technically Spock is both a geek and a nerd, although much sexier than
> most. <g>
> Yes, he inspired me. <g>
> Kaki
I never saw Spock this way at all...
sexy as hell is how I see him....Kirk? well, that goes without saying <g> I
saw Spock as being different but
NEVER a geek (IMHO)
Helen
I think, perhaps, there may be more than one definition of geek.
Kaki
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Rak...@aol.com
> > I think, perhaps, there may be more than one definition of geek.
Yeah, bet there is. When I hear "geek," I think "guaranteed a job, makes
twice what humanities jocks make when they're employed, can install their own
software."
I doubt Spock has to use the Install wizards. But I bet Chekov does, and I
bet he takes shortcuts, and I bet his software crashes and Sulu has to dig
him out.
Hmn. May be a story in there.
raku, switch-hitting geek and humanities jock
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a. h. vericker
> I never saw Spock this way at all...
> sexy as hell is how I see him....Kirk? well, that goes without saying <g>
I
> saw Spock as being different but
> NEVER a geek (IMHO)
> Helen
>
>
Agreed. But geek sounds degrading to me as if a person might be odd or weird
in some way. We are ALL different in one way or another and that's great.
But nerd and geek sound so demeaning....I just would never use that term to
describe anyone. Now, "dances to a different beat?" Sure. That sounds
better, lol
"Spock danced to a different beat." Better to me than Spock was a geek, or
that *we* are geeks....
Helen
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J S Cavalcante
|
| I'm an artist. I write the stuff. She *studies* it and writes
*about* it.
|
| I ask you.
|
| J S Cavlacante
My vote is for you!
Selek
<
You mean that *I'm* the geek? Jeez . . . thanks, I think.
JS
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Laura Goodwin
> I never saw Spock this way at all...
> sexy as hell is how I see him....Kirk? well, that goes without saying <g> I
> saw Spock as being different but
> NEVER a geek (IMHO)
Spock is no MERE geek. He's a bull moose geek. :) It's not bad to be a
geek, FWIW. I'm the proud queen mother of a flock of geeks. Geeks can
be very sexy. We'd rather buy computer hardware/software than clothes.
:)
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Kaki
----------
From: Rak...@aol.com[SMTP:Rak...@aol.com]
Reply To: ASC...@egroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 4:33 PM
To: ASC...@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [ASCEML] Slash in the news again
raku, switch-hitting geek and humanities jock
Cool. I'm an engineer (duh!), but I did get nominated for the humanities
award my senior year (apparently the other geeks didn't get all A's in
humanities or took fewer). So maybe I can claim to be a kindred spirit.
maybe. Can I take credit for 16 years ago?
Kaki
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J S Cavalcante
that I was finished eating<
LOL! What did you say, raku? Je suis finie? LOL! Did he realize you
weren't trying to insult the cooking?
(I loved your post.)
J S Cavalcante
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T'Rhys
>
>Please forgive a newbie, but I'd love to know more about how all this
>began.
A good place to start would be with the Foresmutter's Project at
http://www.eclipse.net/~mecurtin/foresmut/index.htm.
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
Lienor
> http://www.eclipse.net/~mecurtin/foresmut/index.htm.
>
and interesting.
Lienor
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lienor
JJ Arrows
JS wrote:
> Who's callin' whom a geek?
Dang, I love bein' a geek. I think it's a good thing. Nerd, geek, dork,
all of it. Besides, I like "When Geeks Get Sexy" better as a title then, say,
"When Cool Artistic People Get Sexy".
That said, I think a lot more research could have been done and that the
transitions could've been worked on. I liked the Brill's article better.
And the idea that women write slash because we find it SEXY was never even
brought up.
JJ
-
Tony: We must... build a fire.
Mike: With what?! With WHAT?!... I'm buck naked, *you're* buck naked, the
tree's gone, the dog's been eaten, we *have* *sand*! A big LUMP of sand!
-- Mike McShae & Tony Slattery on the British "Whose Line Is It Anyway?".
KitCat
Actually, geek is becoming a complementary rather than pejorative
term in Silicon Valley. "Alpha Geek" is a term now used to
indicate whoever is best at computers and software in a
particular group, and some companies have go so far as to have
formal job titles like "Head Geek" for the person in charge of
the software group.
KitCat
<Any resemblance of the author of this post to actual persons or
fictional characters, living or dead, is unintentional and purely
coincidental>
JJ Arrows
You wrote:
>The original creator of Elfquest (not Richard and Windy Pini),
They *are* the original creators of ElfQuest. :) Wendy Pini (nee Fletcher) had
the basic concept in her head for years, and Richard and she began the comic
book not long after being inspired by Ralph Bakshi's _Wizards_ and the idea
that this kind of fantasy had an audience. They put out the first issue from
their basement in 1975. :)
For more info on this, go to elfquest.com, or read the ElfQuest Gatherum. :)
JJ
-
Tony: We must... build a fire.
Mike: With what?! With WHAT?!... I'm buck naked, *you're* buck naked, the
tree's gone, the dog's been eaten, we *have* *sand*! A big LUMP of sand!
-- Mike McShae & Tony Slattery on the British "Whose Line Is It Anyway?".
Helsos
>"Spock danced to a different beat."
Heh heh! Would that be a limbo beat?
<sorry, couldn't resist.. >
T'Rhys
>
>From: hel...@aol.comnospam (Helsos)
>
>>"Spock danced to a different beat."
>
>Heh heh! Would that be a limbo beat?
>
><sorry, couldn't resist.. >
Last story I did it was more like step dancing, which I suppose could
easily send him into Limbo if he happened to FDAGB after one of the leaps.
<eg>
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
J S Cavalcante
>Dang, I love bein' a geek. I think it's a good thing. Nerd, geek, dork,
>all of it. Besides, I like "When Geeks Get Sexy" better as a title then,
say,
>"When Cool Artistic People Get Sexy".
LOL--you have a point! <g>
>That said, I think a lot more research could have been done and that the
transitions could've been worked on. I liked the Brill's article better.
And the idea that women write slash because we find it SEXY was never even
brought up.<
I know--go figure!
LL&P
J S Cavalcante
Liz
>
>That said, I think a lot more research could have been done and that the
>transitions could've been worked on. I liked the Brill's article better.
>And the idea that women write slash because we find it SEXY was never even
>brought up.
YAYYYY! I suggested that very thing when I wrote back to her and she didn't
respond. I'm guessing that Kate Mercier's mother would be about the same
age group as the people who originally started writing slash. That may be
too large a philosophical leap for her <grin>. I get the definite feeling
from a couple of my kids that the idea of their mother writing erotica is a
real squick. Oh well.
Liz
Liz
>squicked by everything I do, so I am sure my erotica
>would squick her as well. But it would squick me to
>discuss erotica with her OR with my (now departed RIP)
>mom.
My mother doesn't want to know what I do.
>The thing about Mercier's article is that, if we
>treated it as a movie, she, SHE, HER, LITTLE MISS
>MERCIER, would be the star (odd massive amount of
>personal information being shared); the discussion
>slash was just a beard or vehicle for her
>self-expressions. Hey, man, not against the LAW,
>because we do the same! Right on!
>
I hadn't really noticed that but you're right. I did have the impression from
her reply that this was what she was supposed to do for the article--discuss
how she personally reacted to the concept of slash, so maybe it wasn't out of
line. Not that I care. Since she didn't see fit to respond to my second message
I pretty much lost interest in it.
Miss Sunbeam
> would be about the same
> age group as the people who originally started
> writing slash. That may be
> too large a philosophical leap for her <grin>. I get
> the definite feeling
> from a couple of my kids that the idea of their
> mother writing erotica is a
> real squick. Oh well.
>
> Liz
>
My daughter, the ineffable Little Susie Sunbeam, is
squicked by everything I do, so I am sure my erotica
would squick her as well. But it would squick me to
discuss erotica with her OR with my (now departed RIP)
mom.
The thing about Mercier's article is that, if we
treated it as a movie, she, SHE, HER, LITTLE MISS
MERCIER, would be the star (odd massive amount of
personal information being shared); the discussion
slash was just a beard or vehicle for her
self-expressions. Hey, man, not against the LAW,
because we do the same! Right on!
see ya,
Sunbeam
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rae_trail
I get
> the definite feeling
> from a couple of my kids that the idea of their
> mother writing erotica is a
> real squick. Oh well.
>
> Liz
>
My daughter, the ineffable Little Susie Sunbeam, is
squicked by everything I do, so I am sure my erotica
would squick her as well. But it would squick me to
discuss erotica with her OR with my (now departed RIP)
mom.
<snip>
Sunbeam
[ newsgroup posting-script note: line exceeds 512 bytes. Line being reformatted]
But Beamie One, isn't it amazing that
what squicks a daughter about her mom ne
ver squicks her about her grandmother?
Once we're kinda grown up, it seems like
mom is the 'yuch' person and grandmom i
s kinda cool, or at least we can talk to
her about anything at all. I have chat
ted this up on numerous occasions, and g
randma's are cool about sex, where mom's
aren't. What is with that? And... wai
t for it... most of us only actually tal
k about stuff like that with our own mom
s once we are mom's ourselves! So much
for sex-ed, huh? You don't get any unti
l you're old enough to appreciate your m
om!
[end of reformatted line]
You may have to wait for little Susie Sunbeam to spawn... or resign yourself to her telling you the facts of life if she's gay... such a hard time for parents... sigh... glad I'm only a step-monster, step-monster's are inherently cool and kids will talk to them about anything, so long as it is hurtful, insane, or weird.
Beam me up, please please please, Scotty, if I'd wanted kids I'd have arranged it myself...
-- Rae
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
J S Cavalcante
arranged it myself...
-- Rae<
ROFL!
JS
T'Rhys
>
> But Beamie One, isn't it amazing that what squicks a daughter about her
seems like mom is the 'yuch' person and grandmom is kinda cool, or at least
we can talk to her about anything at all. I have chatted this up on
numerous occasions, and grandma's are cool about sex, where mom's aren't.
What is with that?
>
I'd like to know that myself. Personally, discussing sex with my mother or
acknowledging that she engaged in sex (I wouldn't be here if she hadn't!)
has never bothered either of us. I wonder if being raised Pagan has
anything to do with the lack of squick factor here.
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
rae_trail
rae_trail wrote:
>
> But Beamie One, isn't it amazing that what squicks a daughter about her
mom never squicks her about her grandmother? Once we're kinda grown up, it
seems like mom is the 'yuch' person and grandmom is kinda cool, or at least
we can talk to her about anything at all. I have chatted this up on
numerous occasions, and grandma's are cool about sex, where mom's aren't.
What is with that?
>
I'd like to know that myself. Personally, discussing sex with my mother or
acknowledging that she engaged in sex (I wouldn't be here if she hadn't!)
has never bothered either of us. I wonder if being raised Pagan has
anything to do with the lack of squick factor here.
LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tkn...@ix.netcom.com>
Hmmmm... perhaps. we were rather waspish in my youth, though non-churched. However my ole grama's were both seriously churched christians... and they were great about sex. Hmmm. I don't know the answer here. I obviously have a sort of sexual obsession, myself. My mom doesn't even like to use words like 'penis' and 'vagina' -- preferring the goofy euphemisms like 'dinky' *squick* and *nozzle*...
Rae, wondering where the hell I actually learned anything about sex.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
J S Cavalcante
>Personally, discussing sex with my mother or
acknowledging that she engaged in sex (I wouldn't be here if she hadn't!)
has never bothered either of us. I wonder if being raised Pagan has
anything to do with the lack of squick factor here.<
It doesn't squick me, either, and I was raised Catholic.
J S
SAMK
> Message text written by T'Rhys
>
> >Personally, discussing sex with my mother or
> acknowledging that she engaged in sex (I wouldn't be here if she hadn't!)
> has never bothered either of us. I wonder if being raised Pagan has
> anything to do with the lack of squick factor here.<
>
> It doesn't squick me, either, and I was raised Catholic.
>
> J S
I can discuss just about anything with my mother. On the other hand,
the thought of her engaged in sex does squick me, but that has a lot
more to do with the actual physical image which is still imprinted in
my brain from an unfortunate interruption in my youth. <shudder>
SAMK
sa...@inil.com