Dating Gary Mitchell
Islao...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:58:42 EST
To: ASC...@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [ASCEML] Re: Dating Gary Mitchell
From: Islao...@aol.com
In a message dated 11/22/1999 7:25:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
judy...@aol.com writes:
<<
<Sigh> I guess I should start feeling very old.
Thank you for this discussion, Judy. I don't *feel* old, but I guess I feel
old in Star Trek and I could not agree w/ you more on your view of canon
chronology.
For someone who came of age,
fannishly speaking, in the pre-ST movies, pre-other series generation, Okuda
has absolutely no authoritative status whatever, let alone canonical status.
The chronology is very much an after-the-fact effort to reconcile the data
provided by the various ST series, films and pro novels (which also have no
canonical status). From a fan's perspective, the fundamental problem with
Okuda
is that he's imposed on us by TPTB. It's fundamental to the fannish ethos
that
we work things like this out by ourselves. We don't turn to the lackeys of
imperialism for guidance.
Yes, for me, I would have a hard time following Okuda slavishly. *My* Star
Trek and K/S very much exist within my brain as a result of many hours of
watching Star Trek in my adolescence (oh, so many years ago). In truth, I
tend to reference episodes in my stories that I have not watched in years.
Perhaps my recollection is imperfect, but I rarely apologize to my readers
for that. My canon does not equal TPTB's canon, and I am comfortable about
that. BTW: there are some profics that I enjoy, but most of them I wonder
if the author knows anything about TOS!!!! And I extend that to Bill
Shatner's post-Nexus stories - there are some lovely moments, but I really
don't care for his Kirk, Spock, and McCoy many times. Blasphemy? Ah, well,
that's the joy of fanfic - ya don't have to follow Paramount's canon!!!!
Personally, the only secondary source I use for information about TOS is Bjo
Trimble's Star Trek Concordance. All Bjo does is summarize the information in
the eps--she doesn't impose an external archetectonic on it. And besides,
she's
a fan.
Yup, Judy, we are about the same age - fannishly anyway!!!
I can understand the desire to impose a neat, systematic dating scheme on the
episode, and stardate order has formed a fertile source for fannish creative
spulation over the years. (For example, what does one make of the fact that
in
stardate order, "This Side of Paradise" follows immediately after "Amok
Time"?). But ultimately, fitting the episodes into an externally-imposed,
after
the fact chronology is an exercise futility because it can't be done and
leads
to absurdity.
yes, I love to use elements of the episodes in my stories, but I will not
promise to follow canon chronology. Heck, there are many episodes that even
Bill and Leonard acknowledge that the characterizations were "off" due to the
pressures of low budget and not enough time to do the story properly.
This discussion reminds me a bit of the analysis of time in Part B of Kant's
Critique of Pure Reason, wherein Immanuel the K proves that we cannot think
outside time. The same principle applies to the episodes. *Of course* "Where
No
Man Has Gone Before" precedes "The Man Trap" in historical order. How could
it
not? It's obvious from the most superficial viewing.
Episode order is a bit like the dating of Biblical texts.
yes, I would agree that it's not just the dating that resembles the Bible -
more blasphemy? Some of the stories are not absolutely reliable accounts -
they are more a part of the total legend from the various points of view of
eyewitnesses....
Fans use what tools
they have, including stardate and production order, but mostly, they use what
they can glean from internal evidence in the episodes themselves and a hefty
dose of our own assumptions.
Definitely. My personal canon is made up of my own assumptions. There is
considerable subtext in what I write - on some level readers can assume that
the subtext is in the episodes and the movies, but much of the subtext is in
my brain, so that more than once I've answered someone's question about
something in my story by writing another story which is reliably archived in
my brain. I think that the only thing that I really follow in the stories is
the use of the dialogue - the intent of the dialogue is mine - and other
fanfic writers - to interpret! And, if I really can't stand it, I'll even
change the dialogue...
Ultimately, it's a mystery that no one is likely
to agree on any time soon.
If you use
>this dating scheme, then the idea that Mitchell was K's
>first choice while Spock was forced on him becomes one
>reasonable conclusion.
As far as I can tell, this notion is a fairly recent innovation in fan fic.
The
traditional fannish view is that Spock was already serving as First Officer
on
the Enterprise when Kirk became her Captain and that he was perfectly happy
to
accept what was already there.
>>
Agreed. Although I love the thought that they were both somewhat
uncomfortable with each other. The best relationships start w/ initial
conflict. but there is much to be said for 'love at first sight." It is my
only experience w/ love so far...
thanks again, Judy!
Isla
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Jin Katkin
To: ASC...@onelist.com
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:38:10 GMT
Subject: Re: [ASCEML] Re: Dating Gary Mitchell
From: "Jin Katkin" <merlin...@hotmail.com>
>Ze meant, a story by myself. Don't hold your
>breath, gang, I've got my first pair of bifocals
>and I can hardly see a thing. They tell me it will
>be better in a week, but till then I'm going to be
>keeping a pretty low profile.
>
>Mary Ellen
Bifocals are tools of the Purgatory Brownie. No offense to Mr. Franklin,
of course. If the bottom half is too high… it's no good. Mine are driving
me to switch 'em for normal ones. Profound sympathies.
In order to word off my sulk I started a Mitchell story, but I'm at a
low-steam point. Isla, wanna help? It could be fun. If so, reply directly
and change the subject header; I'm taking a short vacation and when I get
back I'll have to do some serious weeding on my account.
Jin