TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
ASCEM
Date:
Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:14:28 -0500
To:
<as...@earthlink.net>
From:
yato...@aol.com (Yatokahc)
Organization:
AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject:
Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
>>> "The Price of the Phoenix" by Sondra Marchak and Myrna Culbreath
(TOS) -- This is a book John Ordover and Pocket Books would never publish.
Kirk dies and is cloned and an evil dictator, Spock and the Romulan
Commander (the babe) all fight over who gets the clone. It's slashy and
full of dominance games and the prose is purple enough for a dozen books.
If this is what the pros were writing in 1976, the 'zines must have been
very interesting. There's a sequel, but I can't remember its title.
<<<
The sequel is entitled "The Fate Of The Phoenix". I highly recommend
both books. Probably my favorite among TOS books. But then... I love most
of what Culbreath and Marshak wrote.
- Suz
ASCEM
Subject:
Re: ASCEML - TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
Date:
Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:12:25 -0800
From:
p...@pacci.com
To:
AS...@earthlink.net
References:
1
ASCEML wrote:
> Well, here are my picks for the pro novels that have TrekSmut written
> all over them. There must be more . . .??
>
> "The Price of the Phoenix" by Sondra Marchak and Myrna Culbreath
> (TOS) -- This is a book John Ordover and Pocket Books would never
> publish. Kirk dies and is cloned and an evil dictator, Spock and the
> Romulan Commander (the babe) all fight over who gets the clone. It's
> slashy and full of dominance games and the prose is purple enough for
> a dozen books. If this is what the pros were writing in 1976, the
> 'zines must have been very interesting. There's a sequel, but I can't
>
> remember its title.
>
> "The Procustean Petard" by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath (In "The
>
> New Voyages II) (TOS) -- Tahnks to an alien machine we get Kirk as a
> woman and Spock with extra testosterone (or something like that).
> More thinly disguised, unpublishable-by-today's-standards slash and
> possibly the originator of TrekSmut genderfuck stories.
>
> "Killing Time" by Della Van Hise (TOS) -- Those pesky Romulans tamper
>
> with time resulting in a many changes in history. Spock commands the
> Enterprise (only it's called something else), Kirk is a messed up
> ensign and they still save the galaxy while having meaningful
> conversations and mind-melds and generally indulging in coded slash
> behavior. I've been told that there are two versions (the original
> had an embossed cover) of this one and that the original was so slashy
>
> that Pocket retracted it and did some content editing. I don't know
> about that, but the version I have (flat cover) is slashy enough for
> me.
>
> "Dark Mirror" by Diane Duane (TNG) -- The 1701-D gets dragged into the
>
> Evil Empire of TOS's episode "Mirror, Mirror." Imagine Deanna as an
> evil, knife-wielding, bitch domme type, Beverly as the rather cowed
> (not to mention naked when "our" Picard talks to her) Captain's Woman,
>
> and Picard as sadistic control freak and you have a good idea why the
> Dark Side is an interesting place to visit but you wouldn't want to
> live there. All this, a cool intelligent dolphin character (Duane's
> good at neat Mission Specialists), Picard in a fight with himself, and
>
> Wes in the agony booth, make this one a keeper. For a truly lovely
> experience, get a hold of the book on tape (which is unfortunately
> chopped), read by John de Lancie, who could make a calculus book sound
>
> hot. For a follow up that is actual TrekSmut (and if you can hang
> with non-cons stuff) read Jeanita Danzik's "Best Of All Possible
> Worlds" and "In the Valley of the Shadow."
>
> Ruth
>
You can't give me a list like that and not tell me where to find them!
Can anyone recommend a good used book store or even want to sell their
copies of New Voyages II and Killling Time? I've read Price of the
Phoenix. Oh, baby.
--Jungle Kitty
ASCEM
On Sat, 01 Nov 1997 07:44:24 -0800, as...@earthlink.net (ASCEM) wrote:
>
>You can't give me a list like that and not tell me where to find them!
>Can anyone recommend a good used book store or even want to sell their
>copies of New Voyages II and Killling Time? I've read Price of the
>Phoenix. Oh, baby.
OK, I just realized that I'm not certain if "The Procustean Petard: is in
NV I or NV II (I'm pretty sure it was NV II). I don't have a copy anymore.
During my SF-snob phase I gave all my Trek books to my cousin (including my
UK editions of NV I and Price of The Phoenix" and my first edition of "The
Star Trek Companion"). "KIlling Time" is Pocket's ST:TOS book #24, and may
still be in print. If not, you should be able to find them if you have
access to a half-way decent used book store.
Hope this helps.
Ruth
ASCEM
Subject:
Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
Date:
Sat, 01 Nov 1997 15:24:42 PST
From:
"Susan Legge" <ukj...@hotmail.com>
To:
AS...@earthlink.net
Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
In article: <3459d2e3...@news.earthlink.net> as...@earthlink.net
(ASCEM)
writes:
Ruth said
> Well, here are my picks for the pro novels that have TrekSmut >
written all over them. There must be more . . .??
>
>
> "The Price of the Phoenix" by Sondra Marchak and Myrna Culbreath
(TOS) --
> This is a book John Ordover and Pocket Books would never publish.
Kirk
> dies and is cloned and an evil dictator, Spock and the Romulan
Commander
> (the babe) all fight over who gets the clone. It's slashy and full of
> dominance games and the prose is purple enough for a dozen books. If
this
> is what the pros were writing in 1976, the 'zines must have been very
> interesting. There's a sequel, but I can't remember its title.
Now this is most definitely *not* a pop at Ruth just a Word of Warning.
I have heard these two books described as an ideal
introduction to slash in general and K/S in particular. I could not
disagree more - I hated these books with a passion I can only ascribe
to the depths of my disappointment with two books which had been so
warmly recommended to me.
The prose isn't so much purple as so over-wrought you could bounce
pennies off it, like an army bed. I found reading the first of them
deeply embarassing;these two either didn't realise how self-revealing
the whole thing was or they didn't care - it was like coming home to
find your elderly great-aunt has published her sexual fantasies on a
bill-board outside your house. I now know much more about the inside
of their heads than I want to.
I know most of us are writing this stuff out of our own fantasies but
most of us can manage a certain distance about it - we have built in
anti-ridiculousness meters which prevent us making total idiots of
ourselves.
Not those two - they just let it all hang out - the relentless sadism
(nothing consensual about these dames), the nauseating hero-worship of
old hazel-eyes (hey I'm a Kirkian and *I* hated it), the ludicrous
harping on about who was the "alpha-male" in the story, the way
everybody lusted after Kirk and sublimated it into violence, the total
lack of anything even remotely resembling humour.
Now I like slash, I write slash, I like h/c, I've written h/c - I made
myself finish the first book, I couldn't make myself finish the
second.
As someone said - Not books to be set aside lightly - they should be
thrown with great force. (Who said that?)
Jess - YMMV, IMHO, et cetera et cetera
______________________________________________________
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ASCEM
Subject:
Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
Date:
From:
Kaki <ka...@ipass.net>
To:
ASCEM <as...@earthlink.net>
References:
1 , 2
ASCEM wrote:
>
> OK, I just realized that I'm not certain if "The Procustean Petard: is in
> NV I or NV II (I'm pretty sure it was NV II).
I just checked my copy of NV2, "The Procrustean Petard" is in there!
ASCEM
Subject:
Re: ASCEML - Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
Date:
Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:36:04 -0500 (EST)
From:
Laura Jacquez Valentine <jac...@andrew.cmu.edu>
To:
AS...@earthlink.net
> From:
> "Susan Legge" <ukj...@hotmail.com>
> To:
> AS...@earthlink.net
>
>
> As someone said - Not books to be set aside lightly - they should be
> thrown with great force. (Who said that?)
Dorothy Parker, the one, the only, the greatest.
--t'Aman
ASCEM
Date:
Mon, 03 Nov 1997 10:56:31 -0800
From:
Greywolf the Wanderer <grey...@snowcrest.net>
To:
AS...@earthlink.net
Subject:
Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
> Subject:
> Re: ASCEML - Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
> From:
> Laura Jacquez Valentine <jac...@andrew.cmu.edu>
> > From:
> > "Susan Legge" <ukj...@hotmail.com>
> >
<discussing Price of the Phoenix and its sequel>
> > As someone said - Not books to be set aside lightly - they should be
> > thrown with great force. (Who said that?)
>
> Dorothy Parker, the one, the only, the greatest.
>
> --t'Aman
Oh, I dunno. They ARE dreadful, I freely admit that. They are the ST
equivalent of what used to be known as bodice-rippers, or penny
dreadfuls. But there is a certain gruesome fascination about them, for
me. In general, I do not like Jaqueline Lichtenberg's solo stuff,
except for the very first Zeor book. And I don't like most of their
combination stuff, either. Triangle was perfectly horrid.
But I have a sneaking fondness for Price of the Phoenix. It was
the
first thing I ever found that showed me that other people looked at The
Boys, and saw some of the same stuff I do. For that, I shall always be
grateful, even though it really is a contestant for a Bulwer-Lytton
award....
<You know -- the contest for stories that begin: "It was a dark and
stormy night" -- and go downhill from there... ;-)>
Greywolf the Wanderer, reminiscing again
ASCEM
Subject:
Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
Mon, 03 Nov 1997 22:51:26 -0600
From:
Delain <del...@jumpgate.net>
Organization:
Avalon Networks Inc.
To:
alt-startrek-creati...@moderators.uu.net
Newsgroups:
alt.startrek.creative.erotica.moderated
References:
1
> As someone said - Not books to be set aside lightly - they should be
> thrown with great force. (Who said that?)
Dorothy Parker.
ASCEM
Date:
Tue, 04 Nov 1997 20:01:48 -0500
To:
AS...@earthlink.net
From:
Katherine Fritz <reds...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject:
Re: ASCEML - Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
At 01:04 AM 11/2/97 +0000, Jess wrote:
[much snippage]
>Now I like slash, I write slash, I like h/c, I've written h/c - I made
>myself finish the first book, I couldn't make myself finish the
>second.
I'm with Jess. I thought both Phoenix books (as well as the Procrustean
Petard) were pretty bad.
>As someone said - Not books to be set aside lightly - they should be
>thrown with great force. (Who said that?)
Either Alexander Woollcott or Dorothy Parker, I think.
ASCEM
Date:
Tue, 04 Nov 1997 19:50:24 -0500
To:
AS...@earthlink.net
From:
Katherine Fritz <reds...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject:
Re: ASCEML - TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
At 11:39 PM 10/30/97 +0000, Ruth wrote:
>
>
>Well, here are my picks for the pro novels that have TrekSmut written
>all over them. There must be more . . .??
>
>
>"The Price of the Phoenix" by Sondra Marchak and Myrna Culbreath
>(TOS) -- This is a book John Ordover and Pocket Books would never
>publish. Kirk dies and is cloned and an evil dictator, Spock and the
>Romulan Commander (the babe) all fight over who gets the clone. It's
>slashy and full of dominance games and the prose is purple enough for
>a dozen books. If this is what the pros were writing in 1976, the
>'zines must have been very interesting. There's a sequel, but I can't
>remember its title.
The sequel is "The Fate of the Phoenix."
Personally, I found both books to be dreadfully wordy and pretentious.
I couldn't finish 'em, and I got 'em back when they first came out. Still
have 'em, though.
ASCEM
From:
Ruth Gifford <eres...@cyberg8t.com>
Subject:
Re: TrekSmut 101 -- The Pro Stuff
Katherine Fritz <reds...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>At 11:39 PM 10/30/97 +0000, Ruth wrote:
>>
>>
>>Well, here are my picks for the pro novels that have TrekSmut written
>>all over them. There must be more . . .??
>>
>>
>>"The Price of the Phoenix" by Sondra Marchak and Myrna Culbreath
>>(TOS) -- This is a book John Ordover and Pocket Books would never
>>publish. Kirk dies and is cloned and an evil dictator, Spock and the
>>Romulan Commander (the babe) all fight over who gets the clone. It's
>>slashy and full of dominance games and the prose is purple enough for
>>a dozen books. If this is what the pros were writing in 1976, the
>>'zines must have been very interesting. There's a sequel, but I can't
>>remember its title.
>
>The sequel is "The Fate of the Phoenix."
>
>Personally, I found both books to be dreadfully wordy and pretentious.
>I couldn't finish 'em, and I got 'em back when they first came out. Still
>have 'em, though.
I've found this discussion really interesting and pretty amusing, because
if you'll read what I originally wrote about "Price of the Phoenix," you'll
notice that I was very neutral about the *quality* of the writing.
I read "Price" when I was 14 (oddly enough I gave a copy to my then
boyfriend as a going away present--never heard what he thought of it). I
was living in Iran (1977, feel free to do the math) at the time, and was
just getting into Star Trek which was shown on the English language TV
channel. I grabbed every Star Trek book I could get my mitts on and
"Price" was my introduction to the K/S subtext.
It's also a really badly written book, although at 14 I was much less
critical (hell I read John Norman too; I blame Iran and Norman equally for
the fact that I'm a feminist). While I have no problem with dom/sub
dynamics and Killa's "Surrender" was a great argument that that sort of
thing could go on between Kirk and Spock in the *bedroom*, I found the
whole weird dynamic to be very off in a public context. Reading it years
later I find myself laughing and thinking that, even at my most purple, I'm
not that bad.
However, historically it's a valuable book, if only to show how much could
get published as pro fic back when Trek was, for all intents and purposes,
a closed franchise. Look at James Blish's original novel (the one about
the two Spocks). Talk about something that couldn't get published today;
he completely ruled out any further conflict with the Klingons by having
the Orgonians (remember them?) refuse to allow it. Anyway, "Price," as bad
as it is, does have TrekSmut written all over it. It's one look at the K/S
dynamic and a lot of people were influenced by it
As for the Procustean Petard . . . I maintain a certain fondness for it
because it was so blatant and the prose was purple enough as to be in your
face. And I dig genderfucks. Actually my favorite bit of the whole story
has always been the fact that the one couple (two security guards I think)
decided that they liked each other more as the opposite sex. Now reading
something like *that* at an early age was an eye opener.
Which reminds me. Anyone ever read "Vulcan!" by Kathleen Sky (or is it
Katherine)? It's a total romance novel and I remember loving it too. But
then I would, the heroine fell for McCoy. I also distinctly recall the
conversation she had with the Good Doctor because her intense dislike of
Spock was getting in the way of her relationship with McCoy. Slashy?
Somewhat.
Ruth
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