slash writers, etc question from Joanne
helmboy
Re: slash writers, etc question from Joanne
Date:
Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:02:39 -0800
From:
"helmboy" <hel...@alaska.net>
To:
<as...@earthlink.net>
>Subject: A question for the slashers
>From: Joanne Collins <m7tra...@yahoo.com>
I always like to get men's responses to what I write. I have had
men tell me that they liked the psychology of the men in my
stories and one gay man wrote that he liked the hugging and
kissing in Canaan Land. He told me, that for him, there wasn't
enough of that in many stories.
I remember being very intrigued by it and look at men's letters
with a huge interest in their pov.
>I've noticed that most (not all) critics of slash for being too
>'romance-novelish' and 'feminine' (in a bad way) are men who read
>and/or write slash.
Hmmmm. I have to read more mail. However, in some fandoms you
get nailed on this and for jaywalking and breathing and not standing
up straight. I have the scorch marks on my behind to prove it for doing
parodies in fandoms that take themselves waaaaaaaay too seriously.
The Sentinel list deal with this sort of stuff a lot. There are even
categories of writing in which feminization and the romance novel style
exists as a sort of style that many writers do to great applause.
When I started writing parodies of Sentinel (as I did of Star Trek: Voy
in my Dear Diary stories) I was flamed by a writer of Sentinel slash
that feminized Blair. Frankly, I had no intention of ridicule at all as I
really, really like The Sentinel and have many friends in the fandom. I
certainly wasn't thinking of any particular person, the least of all *her*.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAHA! Sorry. :0)
I think some of the shows are very ripe for parody and none of mine,
in my opinion, were disrespectful. However, the feminization thing is
a hoot to spoof.
I think that women write the emotions in that men sometimes don't
express or at least acknowledge to others. My experience with
gay men's letters is that they like the romance. If some don't
then cool. There are so many writers that a blanket remark won't
work. You have women like Britta and Bridget who write a very
man sort of pov. There are others who don't. There are many
like Karen S who write humor and sexy and all kinds of stuff.
There are versatile women in many fandoms like Lianne Burwell
and Mona Ramsey. (All hail Mona!) Then, there are writers
like Siubhan who wrote Left Hand of Madness and Margaret
Berger who wrote the Sweet Dreams stories, both classic Voy
stories. Both are very male in pov in my opinion. Both were
clear in presenting men. And, there are ten million others.
None of them can be covered in a few statements. Its too
broad and varied.
I have noticed that the stories *some* men write are instantly
recognizable to me as written by men. There often (but not
always) is another sense to them, a different sensibility, that you
can pick up sometimes. I read men's stories to hear that point of view
and see that sensibility. It makes me think about what I do. I
may not change a word but its another pov, helpful to me in
figuring out the intricacies of this kind of relationship from a
lot of pov's, not just mine.
Sex seems to be more of an act to be performed in some
(note that word) men's stories --the mechanics being very
important: size, number of orgasms, who screamed and how
long.... <drool> .... while in women's, its an emotional
thing (usually), connected to feelings and sometimes those
feelings make the men women.
A sometimes woman pov:
"Darling! MORE! MORE! MORE!"
"YES! YES! YES!"
"I ... I LOVE YOU, TOMMY!"
"I ... I LOVE YOU, CHAKOTAY!"
"DO YOU LIKE *REALLY*?!?!?!"
"SURE!"
LICK!
A sometimes man pov:
"So, you wanna fuck?"
"Sure."
Huge sounds of rutting and jostling and comparing of
equipment followed by a smoke and much averting of
eyes.
"Thanks."
"Don't mention it."
"See ya."
"Yeah. See ya."
When people thought that I was a man (my online name is
Helmboy after all) I was told that people thought I was a man
writing with a woman's touch. :0) It may just be a point of
view thing based on male and female outlook. Or it may not
but in my experiences on both sides of the fence, the view
of the work was interesting from a man's and a woman's
perspective. It is also often different. However, I read stories
that interest me and men and women write both. I could no
more condemn men's writing than I could women's.
>Myself, I try to stay true to my perception of canon, and the
>characters. To be honest, I'm not so sure that the characters on the
>show act like men all the time. Not most of the men I know, anyway.
>Then again, considering most of the men I know, that's a *plus*.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA! We must know some of the same
men. ;0)
I always love to get mail from men telling me what they thought.
One gay man told me that he never cries from stories but Canaan
Land made him cry. Very cool. Perhaps it would be helpful for
the men on this list to LOC the authors and tell them what they
think about what they read.
I can't do romance in the regency style without falling into parody.
I can't do gushy romance. I am writing men. However, I think that
from what men tell me that they like the contact, the conversations,
and the touching and kissing. So, I try to remember that my first
maxim in my writing is that even though this is men, this is a love
relationship with all the good, bad and ugly that implies. My
guys kiss each other and hold hands. I guess if that makes them
fem, so be it. But, in my set of rules for my own writing, that makes
them normal. In the worlds I write, gay love and sex is normal.
>Also, I really resent the idea that romance novels and slash are
>comparable. I've read large amounts of both, and I think I can say
>that although some similarities exist, it's more in the realm of both
>kinds of fiction being about relationships.
I don't think that romance novels are comparable to slash. I think
slash is something unique. If it were just another genre we would all
be doing this for money. :0)
I tried to read romance novels but can't. The relationships are not
my cup of tea and the dialog and emotional set ups are too over
the top. I respect anyone's choice of material to read and enjoy.
As my aunt once told my uncle when he was disparaging In the
Heat of the Night's sheriff who had married a black woman: "There
isn't enough romance and love in this world, damn it. I LIKE THIS!"
I agree with her. However, not every set up is everyone's cup of
tea. Frankly, we need more gay men telling us their views in a way
that presents the information we, as writers, really all crave from you,
the mainstay of our imaginations. I personally *love* to hear from
gay men and women about what they like, dislike, want more of,
would like to see less of, in my stories.
This helps me and makes me clear on the audience as well. Maybe
I won't change a thing but letters always give me something to
think about.
I had the good fortune to meet and talk to for a long time, the godmother
of slash, Gerry Downes. She is a dreamsickle of a woman. She started
K/S a million years ago and is an amazing writer. She edits Sentinel
slash for the great writer, Toshua, and she talked about the idea of
feminization and such in slash. Some things she liked and some she
didn't. I guess it was whatever you liked was cool.
Frankly, she was *very, very* cool. :0)
>Thoughts?
I don't know, Joanne, if I answered the question or wandered all over
the place. :0) Slash is women (usually) writing about men (usually)
in relationships with other men. Of course, the female perspective
will come into play. For some that means feminization and for
others it means something else. But, so what. I could never write
this:
"Hi, honey! I'm home!"
Chakotay walked through the door and tossed his briefcase on the
couch, tossing his jacket off too.
Tom, his wonderful little snugglebunny, wiped his hands on his
frilly pink apron and stepped away from the replicator he was slaving
over, dropping a kiss on his hubby's lips.
"Hi, sweetie. Din-din is almost ready."
"Thanks, baby. How about a roll in the hay?" Chakotay smiled at
Tom's newly-wed blush.
Of course, they had been hitched for 27 years but that was okay. It
didn't matter that Tom still undressed in the closet at night and only
*did it* in the dark, on the bottom, fully clothed.
They were still as in love as the first time they made love in that
alley back on Alpha Ceti V.
*And* I could never write this one: (Maybe) ;0)
CRACK!
The whip broke the stillness, making Tom quiver, as he hung in
the straps. Chakotay, wearing black leather and six inch heels,
paced back and forth, a tiperillo dangling from his rather full,
sensuous, red, *gasp*, lips.
"Beg, wench!" he demanded, cracking the whip again. "BEG!"
"Mommy...."
Well, maybe I *could* write that one. ;0)
Hugs!
Helmboy, meandering around the block.
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