OT: My studly smut-writing wife

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Atara Stein

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Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
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I have the great pleasure to announce that Ruth's story "Just Drops," which
originally appeared in Best Lesbian Erotica 1998, has now been included in
Best of the Best Lesbian Erotica, along with such names as Pat Califia,
Cecilia Tan, and Laura Antoniou. For those of you not current with your
lesbian erotica, this is really a big deal, and I believe Congratulations
are in order. She can be can be reached at eres...@cyberg8t.com.

And it's a really hot story . . .

atara
proud wife and property of Ruth

************************************************************
Atara Stein
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Selek

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Jun 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/15/00
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--- In ASC...@egroups.com, Atara Stein <astarte@c...> wrote:
> I have the great pleasure to announce that Ruth's story "Just
Drops," which
> originally appeared in Best Lesbian Erotica 1998, has now been
included in
> Best of the Best Lesbian Erotica, along with such names as Pat
Califia,
> Cecilia Tan, and Laura Antoniou. For those of you not current with
your
> lesbian erotica, this is really a big deal, and I believe
Congratulations
> are in order. She can be can be reached at ereshkgl@c...

>
> And it's a really hot story . . .
>
> atara
> proud wife and property of Ruth

Congratulations Ruth!!

Selek

The Question

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Jun 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/15/00
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From: The Question <ques...@spin.net.au>

Atara Stein wrote:
>
> I have the great pleasure to announce that Ruth's story "Just Drops," which
> originally appeared in Best Lesbian Erotica 1998, has now been included in
> Best of the Best Lesbian Erotica, along with such names as Pat Califia,
> Cecilia Tan, and Laura Antoniou. For those of you not current with your
> lesbian erotica, this is really a big deal, and I believe Congratulations

> are in order. She can be can be reached at eres...@cyberg8t.com.


>
> And it's a really hot story . . .
>
> atara
> proud wife and property of Ruth
>

> ************************************************************

Congrats 8)

Question spurred by this whole "who can write slash" thingy: I'm asuming only
female authors are eligable for this whole best lesbian erotica (and male
authors for best gay erotica), yes?

Is it who writes or what is written that determines what something is
classified as?


--
Jon

-----
We are the people our parents warned us about.

atara stein

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Jun 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/16/00
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--- In ASC...@egroups.com, The Question <ascem-usenet-relay1@t...>
(by
way of ascem-usenet-relay1@t...) wrote:
> From: The Question <question@s...>

> Question spurred by this whole "who can write slash" thingy: I'm
asuming only
> female authors are eligable for this whole best lesbian erotica
(and male
> authors for best gay erotica), yes?
>
> Is it who writes or what is written that determines what something
is
> classified as?

In a lot of anthologies, it's the content that determines the
classification. I don't think that's the case for the Best of . . .
series. I had a m/m story accepted to an online journal recently
(won't come out till October), and I wrote that under a male
pseudonym,
going on the assumption that the editors would be more inclined to
take
it seriously.

HTH,
atara

control Function

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Jun 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/17/00
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Yay for diversity!!!!!
<control dancing goofily to Olivia Newton John>

Thanks for that vote of confidence for a paranoid Ambi gender!!!

Aaaaaaannndd!!! A million light years of loving congrats for your
wonderfully talented studly smut writing wife,
Yay!!! Round of applause, bow and a curtsy and a big kiss.
Congratulations again...;-)


>From: "atara stein" <ast...@cyberg8t.com>
>Reply-To: ASC...@egroups.com
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>Subject: [ASCEML] Re: OT: My studly smut-writing wife
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>
>--- In ASC...@egroups.com, The Question <ascem-usenet-relay1@t...>
>(by
>way of ascem-usenet-relay1@t...) wrote:
> > From: The Question <question@s...>
>
> > Question spurred by this whole "who can write slash" thingy: I'm
>asuming only
> > female authors are eligable for this whole best lesbian erotica
>(and male
> > authors for best gay erotica), yes?
> >
> > Is it who writes or what is written that determines what something
>is
> > classified as?
>
>In a lot of anthologies, it's the content that determines the
>classification. I don't think that's the case for the Best of . . .
>series. I had a m/m story accepted to an online journal recently
>(won't come out till October), and I wrote that under a male
>pseudonym,
>going on the assumption that the editors would be more inclined to
>take
>it seriously.
>
>HTH,
>atara
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

The Question

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Jun 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/18/00
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From: The Question <ques...@spin.net.au>

Odd, neither my post or the one directly answering it made it to my news
server 8/

control Function wrote:

<snip>

The Question:


> >
> > > Question spurred by this whole "who can write slash" thingy: I'm
> >asuming only
> > > female authors are eligable for this whole best lesbian erotica
> >(and male
> > > authors for best gay erotica), yes?
> > >
> > > Is it who writes or what is written that determines what something
> >is
> > > classified as?

Atara:


> >In a lot of anthologies, it's the content that determines the
> >classification. I don't think that's the case for the Best of . . .
> >series. I had a m/m story accepted to an online journal recently
> >(won't come out till October), and I wrote that under a male
> >pseudonym, going on the assumption that the editors would be more
inclined to
> >take it seriously.

Do you think you'd be able to do the same thing for a print journal? In either
case, would there be a big hullabullo if the writer of a piece of lesbian or
gay arotica submitted under a pseudonym were to be discovered as being not of
the orientation being written about? Would it be bigger for a woman writing
gay erotica or a man writing lesbian erotica, and why so?

*remembers the whole Helen Demedenko fuss, and the 'scandal' over people
making aboriginal art not being aboriginal*

I think what I'm getting at here is this perception that for something to be
valid, it can only ever come from certain... avenues?

Take the paintings or the Demedenko book: the outrage would imply that the
works were judged on where they came from as much as they were judged purely
as things in their own right. The artefacts themselves remain the same - the
words and the pigments are fixed - yet somehow because they came from a
different place than people expected, they've suddenly been deemed less worthy
aof the regard in which they've been held. It just doesn't seem right, does
it?

Why do people do it? From the number of times through out history people have
submitted their work to the public under the guise of a different race or
gender or identity, it's obvious that the great majority of people find who
made it just as, if not more so, important than the work itself, and it's
something I just can't get my head around.

Say I'm a gay boy writing my first piece of erotica, but because I haven't
shagged anyone and not written much before, it turns out crap. Then say I'm a
het-fem who's been writing slash for a decade and been shaggin my hubby silly,
and the story turns out to be really quite good. Is that good story suddenly
not as good and that crap story not as bad because of the context who wrote it
places it in? Surely if a work is good in and of itself, it shouldn't matter
who writes it? Why do we care?


--
Jon

-----
We are the people our parents warned us about.

atara stein

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Jun 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/18/00
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--- In ASC...@egroups.com, The Question <ascem-usenet-relay1@t...>
(by
way of ascem-usenet-relay1@t...) wrote:

>Surely if a work is good in and of itself, it shouldn't matter
> who writes it? Why do we care?
>
>
> --
> Jon

Well, yes, I totally agree. And writing drag is something of
interest
to people, hence the volume "Switch Hitters," in which lesbians wrote
gay-male erotica, and gay men wrote lesbian erotica. Being rather
more
interested in getting published than in making a point though, I've
submitted my one m/m original piece under a male pseudonym. Once it
was accepted though, I did tell the editor it was a pseudonym. The
name itself is a bit of a literary in-joke for me: Gordon Bell.
Gordon was Byron's family name before he became a Lord, and Bell is
the
last name the Brontë sisters used as a pseudonym (Acton, Currer,
and
Ellis Bell) when first publishing, again b/c they wanted to be taken
seriously as writers and not just seen as women writing for women
(this
being in the late 1840's). So the name amuses me if nothing else. :-)

But it really shouldn't matter. I don't think gender is anywhere
near
the binary thing many people see it as; nor is sexual orientation.
One
queer theorist, Alexander Doty, defines queer precisely as: "the non-
straight work, positions, pleasures, and readings of people who . . .
don't share the same 'sexual orientation' as that articulated in the
texts they are producing or responding to." Hence, slash. Honestly,
I
think all you need to write good smut is a good imagination, and an
ability to get into the heads of your characters even more than their
body parts.

atara

Laura Goodwin

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Jun 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/18/00
to

I enjoy writing K/S because I really love the characters and the times
they live in. I think of slash as superior to erotica or porn, even
though it can get as raw, because in slash (and Trek fanfic in general)
an extraordinary amount of attention is usually paid to the mindset,
motives, and feelings of the characters. It meets needs ordinary porn
and erotica can't meet, and these needs aren't merely salacious. There
is something very complex going on, where the sex depicted is very often
metaphorical, and is a part of a process that might be called
psychosexual gratification.

I used to be a Spock fan, and I used to only imagine him in heterosexual
relationships. I made a changeover about 5 years ago. I don't remember
when it happened or why, but suddenly the idea of Spock and Kirk as
lovers suddenly hit me full force, and it really took hold.

Here is the reason I think this particular pairing is so magical (for
me, anyway): Kirk and Spock are iconic figures. Each represents
something. We could go on all day listing all the things they are
supposed to represent, I'm not going to do that. What they mean to
other people is for them to say. To me, Kirk represents the ego, the
self. Your ego is on an adventure, and it's the story of your life.
But it doesn't go alone... the Ego is supported and sometimes opposed by
the rational Superego, and the bestial but powerful Id.

I'm not going all Freudian on you. Another way to say this is we have a
two-sided brain. One side is logical, one is emotional. We also have a
primitive lower brain that regulates our most basic survival functions.
A healthy mind (the ego) harmonizes all three.

Kirk, in charge and at the center of everything, represents us, the star
of the show. On his left we have the relentlessly querulous Doctor
McCoy, who pretty obviously is supposed to represent the emotional
mind. Spock on the right is ostensibly the logical one. Kirk is
supposed to always mediate between these two, allowing himself to be
influenced, but not dominated by them. He's supposed to also keep one
from overwhelming the other. Scotty can be seen as the one who
represents the powerful lower brain.

That was what Roddenberry intended. Then something unexpected
happened: Spock was revealed to be a deeply complicated fellow who
could represent many things, often more than one at once. When the
public caught on to how interesting Spock was, it almost became the
Spock in Space show. It was decided by Roddenberry to ramp up the
"friendship" between Kirk and Spock, in a conscious attempt to manage
and manipulate the audience's fascination with Spock. Kirk, as a
friend, was privy to more secrets and could take more liberties with
Spock, and that cut both ways.

What they were trying to do has been explained. What they
(subconsciously) accomplished is much more interesting. With Spock
revealed to be both cerebral-alien-other and at times
bestial-alien-other, he became a character that could play both the
Superego and Id to Kirk's Ego. Then Kirk started playing Superego for
Spock when Spock the Ego/Id was having a bad day. Then Spock would be
the conciliatory and reasonable Ego, coping with Kirk's childish Id.

This grew, and in modern-day fanfic has become over-blown, overgrown,
and damn near out of control. The purple prose could use some pruning,
my friends, but you sure can't deny the fantasy is thriving.

What could be better for a fiction writer who is in a hurry to make a
point about the nature of being and the human condition? To play with
any problem of being, all you really need is these two guys. They are
like Jack Sprat and his wife. Between the two of them, they can cover
everything. Kirk and Spock alone in a room can recreate the universe.

Look at ST 2. In this movie we see that Kirk's fathered a son, and
Kirk's former lady love, the mother, is no ordinary dame! Neither is
the son, natch! Mother and son created a device that creates life out
of lifelessness. Kirk is the fulcrum, keystone and catalyst for a
sequence of events that ultimately leads to him shooting Spock's body
into the center of a newly forming world. Oh, gee! Subtle, huh!?

Why do you think they had Kirk saying Spock's soul was human at the
funeral? To officially dissolve his otherness, that's why. Now when
Spock gets shot off, he is going as one of us, and Kirk is sending him.

It is not much of a leap for fans to say that Kirk and Spock are one in
the flesh as well as the spirit. They ARE married, and not by us, but
by Roddenberry. We just ran with it. I feel duty bound to do my part
to make sure their marriage is a happy and fruitful one. While these
guys are living in *my* head, they are going to be living good! Forget
about anybody else: I feel I owe that much to myself!


--
Laura Goodwin - Field Researcher for the Institute for the Very
Seriously Scientific Study of Human Sexuality and Bar and
Grill...*Specials Daily!*

Gil Shalos

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Jun 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/19/00
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Dear Jon,

[ newsgroup posting-script note: line exceeds 512 bytes. Line being reformatted]

I agree with most of your points - the o
ne thing I'd like to point out is about
Helen Danville - there's an article in O
X-Texts called "Did Australian multicult
uralisms get the ethnic author they dese
rved?" which is about Danville's constru
ction of herself as a Ukrainian woman ca
lled Helen Damien - the article points o
ut how shallow her portrayal actually wa
s (limited to cuisine, costume and custo
m) and how it was essentially a WASP ver
sion of Ukrainian ethnicity, which is wh
y it took in the WASPs so well.


[end of reformatted line]

I agree that The Hand that Signed the Paper hasn't changed as a text - including the 25+ pages she plagiarised from other authors....

The issue is basically how must weight you put on 'authenticity's, and how much on the text itself. In my case, and I'm guessing in yours, that's very little on the first and a great deal on the second. However, in the 'culture industry' authenticity affects price - a painting by an 'real' aboriginal artist costs more than one in the same style by someone who isn't 'really' aboriginal. That's where the trouble starts.


Regards,

Gil Shalos

************
Reach out to others courteously
Accept their reaching with careful hands
The spear in the Other's heart is the spear in your own. You are so/he

***************************
http://members.tripod.com/~gil.shalos/home.html
----- Original Message -----

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Morgan Hunter

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Jun 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/19/00
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--- Laura Goodwin <lal...@altavista.net> wrote:
>
> It is not much of a leap for fans to say that Kirk
> and Spock are one in
> the flesh as well as the spirit. They ARE married,
> and not by us, but
> by Roddenberry. We just ran with it. I feel duty
> bound to do my part
> to make sure their marriage is a happy and fruitful
> one. While these
> guys are living in *my* head, they are going to be
> living good! Forget
> about anybody else: I feel I owe that much to
> myself!
>

Yes. Thank you. Well put.

>
> --
> Laura Goodwin - Field Researcher for the Institute
> for the Very
> Seriously Scientific Study of Human Sexuality and
> Bar and
> Grill...*Specials Daily!*

Do they deliver?

Morgan


__________________________________________________
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J S Cavalcante

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Jun 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/19/00
to
Message text written by Laura Goodwin:

>What could be better for a fiction writer who is in a hurry to make a
point about the nature of being and the human condition? To play with
any problem of being, all you really need is these two guys. They are
like Jack Sprat and his wife. Between the two of them, they can cover
everything. Kirk and Spock alone in a room can recreate the universe.
<

Laura,

This whole post was very insightful, and very nicely put.

It's a keeper--that IS why I write K/S.

LL&P
J S Cavalcante

The Question

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Jun 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/19/00
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From: The Question <ques...@spin.net.au>

atara stein wrote:
>
> --- In ASC...@egroups.com, The Question <ascem-usenet-relay1@t...>

> >Surely if a work is good in and of itself, it shouldn't matter
> > who writes it? Why do we care?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jon
>
> Well, yes, I totally agree. And writing drag is something of
> interest
> to people, hence the volume "Switch Hitters," in which lesbians wrote
> gay-male erotica, and gay men wrote lesbian erotica.

Sounds interesting. Got the ISBN and other such esoterics by any chance?

> Being rather
> more
> interested in getting published than in making a point though, I've
> submitted my one m/m original piece under a male pseudonym. Once it
> was accepted though, I did tell the editor it was a pseudonym.

How'd they react?

> But it really shouldn't matter. I don't think gender is anywhere
> near the binary thing many people see it as; nor is sexual orientation.

Wish more of the world could see it that way 8( The fleshy bits are fun,
but they
can be so limiting

> One
> queer theorist, Alexander Doty, defines queer precisely as: "the non-
> straight work, positions, pleasures, and readings of people who . . .
> don't share the same 'sexual orientation' as that articulated in the
> texts they are producing or responding to." Hence, slash.

That does sound comforting. But how does that answer those who believe that
slash is solely the province of 'straight' folk writing 'bent' stories (and
more narrowly 'straight' girls writing 'bent' boys).

> Honestly, I
> think all you need to write good smut is a good imagination, and an
> ability to get into the heads of your characters even more than their
> body parts.
>
> atara

I knew there was a reason why I liked your stuff on atx-sm and ssb-b 8) You
seem to think in very similar ways to me

--
Jon

-----
We are the people our parents warned us about.

atara stein

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
--- In ASC...@egroups.com, The Question <ascem-usenet-relay1@t...>
(by
way of ascem-usenet-relay1@t...) wrote:

> Sounds interesting. Got the ISBN and other such esoterics by any
chance?

I don't have the ISBN offhand, but the editors are Carol Queen and
Lawrence Schimel.

>>Once it
> > was accepted though, I did tell the editor it was a pseudonym.
>
> How'd they react?

They didn't. :-) That was a good thing.

> That does sound comforting. But how does that answer those who
believe that
> slash is solely the province of 'straight' folk writing 'bent'
stories (and
> more narrowly 'straight' girls writing 'bent' boys).

I think you just have to accept that some people are without a clue
and
no amount of explanation is going to get them one. :-) I'm wary of
theorists who have one single all-encompassing theory about why
people
write slash, but then I'm wary of theorists who have one single all-
encompassing theory about just about anything.

I recently gave a paper at the Popular Culture Association
conference,
and more scholars are aware of slash fiction and are past a
singleminded oversimplified interpretation of it. And more people
are
straddling the line b/c fandom and academia the way I do, and at
least
some of them are sensitive to the complexity of fanfic and
specifically
slash writing, especially since some of them do it themselves.

At the same conference, I went to a paper about Janeway fanfic,
including J/7. Two authors she particularly mentioned as being good
were Robin and Bodicea (sp?).

> I knew there was a reason why I liked your stuff on atx-sm and
ssb-b 8) You
> seem to think in very similar ways to me

Great minds think alike, to coin a phrase. :-) So you hang out on
ssbb too?

atara

control Function

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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Fair enough...whatever turns you on ;-)

Personally I'm not a K/S head myself (shock!! horror!! I await the avalanche
of hate mail<just kidding>)

If you can get that much out of it then you're lucky. Maybe I'm a symptom of
my age and interest...I'm a Dr Who head that fell into TNG...when the
mother*#@443 sh@$# headed BBC decided to end the show (bastards)...and have
kind of gone on from there...
I have watched TOS...but clearly not enough as a lot of people, again just
IDIC I suppose, I'm not going to critisise anything or anyone cos it's
pointless. I have to say I DO like Spock's character a lot...it is
multilayered and fascinating and gets increasingly so over the years...I
can't quite get as much out of Kirk...well not yet...I do find Shatner very
entertaining...

Personally I adore having as many characters as possible...looking into
everyone's different perspective's on what may often be the same event...


control
loving everyone equally and hoping hard he/she hasn't pissed anyone off ;-0


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>

>Message text written by Laura Goodwin:
>
> >What could be better for a fiction writer who is in a hurry to make a
>point about the nature of being and the human condition? To play with
>any problem of being, all you really need is these two guys. They are
>like Jack Sprat and his wife. Between the two of them, they can cover
>everything. Kirk and Spock alone in a room can recreate the universe.
><
>
>Laura,
>
>This whole post was very insightful, and very nicely put.
>
>It's a keeper--that IS why I write K/S.
>
>LL&P
>J S Cavalcante

________________________________________________________________________


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laura jacquez valentine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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--On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 1:06 AM -0400 J S Cavalcante
<10276...@compuserve.com> wrote:r

> Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com


>> control
> loving everyone equally and hoping hard he/she hasn't pissed anyone off
> ;-0<
>

> I'm not pissed off, control . . . but I ask for clarification on one
> item: Did you mean to call me a "K/S head?" I prefer the term "K/Ser"
> or "K/S author." Or "K/S fan" or "K/S devotee" . . .
>
> "K/S head" does sound a bit derogatory or at least dismissive.

Is "Deadhead" derogative?

(My Massachusetts hippie Deadhead second-generation-red-diaper-baby
boyfriend doesn't think so, incidentally.)

--laura

J S Cavalcante

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com
>control
loving everyone equally and hoping hard he/she hasn't pissed anyone off
;-0<

I'm not pissed off, control . . . but I ask for clarification on one item:
Did you mean to call me a "K/S head?" I prefer the term "K/Ser" or "K/S
author." Or "K/S fan" or "K/S devotee" . . .

"K/S head" does sound a bit derogatory or at least dismissive.

LL&P
J S Cavalcante

hafital

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 June 2000, laura jacquez valentine wrote:


> --On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 1:06 AM -0400 J S Cavalcante

> > I'm not pissed off, control . . . but I ask for clarification on one
> > item: Did you mean to call me a "K/S head?" I prefer the term "K/Ser"
> > or "K/S author." Or "K/S fan" or "K/S devotee" . . .
> >
> > "K/S head" does sound a bit derogatory or at least dismissive.

I got this very wierd image of a two-headed monster type reader/writer busy clacking away at a computer. Bahahahahaaa.

>
> Is "Deadhead" derogative?

IMO, no. And neither is "K/S head" (and I'm very certain that control wasn't going for that at all and wasn't meaning it to be dismissive), but I wouldn't want to be called either. Labels aren't my thing, but others really have fun with them or don't mind them. <shrug> I don't even think of myself as a K/Ser and that's mostly what I write.


>
> (My Massachusetts hippie Deadhead second-generation-red-diaper-baby
> boyfriend doesn't think so, incidentally.)

Please tell me Nat doesn't walk around in diapers.

hafital


--
"God forbid a straight person should acknowledge that there
are pleasures associated with his anus."

--Phil Hartman

==========================================================
Visit Hafital's Smutty Star Trek Paradise

http://www.geocities.com/hafital2/
______________________________________________________________
Get free Internet service and email at http://www.worldspy.com

hafital

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 June 2000, laura jacquez valentine wrote:

>
>
>
> --On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 6:43 AM -0700 hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>
> wrote:r


>
> >> (My Massachusetts hippie Deadhead second-generation-red-diaper-baby
> >> boyfriend doesn't think so, incidentally.)
> >
> > Please tell me Nat doesn't walk around in diapers.
>

> Nah.
>
> Well, you know, only if I beg.

Good, cause I was getting Bast and Shar images in my head. Eew! <g>

hafital, way to visual for her own good.

laura jacquez valentine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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--On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 6:43 AM -0700 hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>
wrote:r

>> (My Massachusetts hippie Deadhead second-generation-red-diaper-baby
>> boyfriend doesn't think so, incidentally.)
>
> Please tell me Nat doesn't walk around in diapers.

Nah.

Well, you know, only if I beg.

--laura

laura jacquez valentine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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--On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 7:04 AM -0700 hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>
wrote:r

>> Nah.


>>
>> Well, you know, only if I beg.
>

> Good, cause I was getting Bast and Shar images in my head. Eew! <g>
>
> hafital, way to visual for her own good.

Oh, come on--when have I ever given anyone Bast and Shar images? Do I
*ever* share that stuff with ANYONE? Like the one where Jim is Blair's
guardian and has sex with him for his 12th birthday? HUH? DID I SHARE
THAT? EVER????

No. I thought not. I rest my case.

hafital

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 June 2000, laura jacquez valentine wrote:

>
> >> Nah.
> >>
> >> Well, you know, only if I beg.
> >
> > Good, cause I was getting Bast and Shar images in my head. Eew! <g>
> >
> > hafital, way to visual for her own good.
>
> Oh, come on--when have I ever given anyone Bast and Shar images? Do I
> *ever* share that stuff with ANYONE? Like the one where Jim is Blair's
> guardian and has sex with him for his 12th birthday? HUH? DID I SHARE
> THAT? EVER????
>
> No. I thought not. I rest my case.

Oh man. You're evil. Just for that you have to visualize Spock wearing diapers and a pacifier with big fat tears running down his face while Kirk.....SQUICK!!!!

I'd say more, but I just can't make myself do it. I don't have it in me....ahhhhh, I think I'm going to be sick. Where's that AJAX and Mr. Clean? I need to rinse my brain out.

hafital, apparently as unclean and corrupt as Gamin suggested.

--
"God forbid a straight person should acknowledge that there
are pleasures associated with his anus."

--Phil Hartman

==========================================================
Visit Hafital's Smutty Star Trek Paradise

http://www.geocities.com/hafital2/
______________________________________________________________
Get free Internet service and email at http://www.worldspy.com

laura jacquez valentine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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--On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 7:33 AM -0700 hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>
wrote:r

>> Oh, come on--when have I ever given anyone Bast and Shar images? Do I


>> *ever* share that stuff with ANYONE? Like the one where Jim is Blair's
>> guardian and has sex with him for his 12th birthday? HUH? DID I SHARE
>> THAT? EVER????
>>
>> No. I thought not. I rest my case.
>
> Oh man. You're evil. Just for that you have to visualize Spock wearing
> diapers and a pacifier with big fat tears running down his face while
> Kirk.....SQUICK!!!!

Hey, at least I didn't give you Lord Ellison Blair-slave-rape images. All
I gave you was a child abuse image. Sheesh. Sensitive people...and you
notice I left Kix out of the equation ENTIRELY. You didn't even have to
THINK about Kix!

> I'd say more, but I just can't make myself do it. I don't have it in
> me....ahhhhh, I think I'm going to be sick. Where's that AJAX and Mr.
> Clean? I need to rinse my brain out.

Wuss.

--laura

laura jacquez valentine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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--On Wednesday, June 21, 2000, 12:41 AM +1000 Robin
<rob...@s054.aone.net.au> wrote:r

> Mmmmmm, pancakes. Maybe this is like a reverse treksmut moment. I guess
> the pancakes would be in the shape of a com badge or something... No!
> They're smutty pancakes, so I guess they'd be shaped like sh*ttl*cr*ft.
> Covered in really well whipped cream?

Mmmm...SLURP!!!

Keep that Stephen Ratcliff guy away from them, though. God only know what
he'd do.

hafital

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 June 2000, "Robin" wrote:

>
> From: hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>
> > Visit Hafital's Smutty Star Trek Paradise
>

> Here's why it's time for me to go to bed. I read that sentence here as
> "Visit Hafital's smutty Star Trek Pancakes".


>
> Mmmmmm, pancakes. Maybe this is like a reverse treksmut moment. I guess the
> pancakes would be in the shape of a com badge or something... No! They're
> smutty pancakes, so I guess they'd be shaped like sh*ttl*cr*ft. Covered in
> really well whipped cream?

Robin, you've made my day.

Smutty dom pancakes whipping the daylights out of cream. Bhahahahhahaaa.

I needed that, after mean laura jv's tirade of squicky images.

*makes faces at laura*

hafital


--
"God forbid a straight person should acknowledge that there
are pleasures associated with his anus."

--Phil Hartman

==========================================================
Visit Hafital's Smutty Star Trek Paradise

http://www.geocities.com/hafital2/
______________________________________________________________
Get free Internet service and email at http://www.worldspy.com

T'Rhys

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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At 08:57 AM 6/20/2000 -0400, laura jacquez valentine wrote:
>
>--On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 1:06 AM -0400 J S Cavalcante
><10276...@compuserve.com> wrote:r

>
>> "K/S head" does sound a bit derogatory or at least dismissive.
>
>Is "Deadhead" derogative?

>
>(My Massachusetts hippie Deadhead second-generation-red-diaper-baby
>boyfriend doesn't think so, incidentally.)
>

He's right, it isn't, but only because the term is used by the Deadheads
(fans of The Grateful Dead?) themselves. It's when terms are applied to
groups by outsiders that they become derogatory.

LL&P }:)
"T'Rhys" <tgkn...@netcom.com>

laura jacquez valentine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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--On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 8:56 AM -0700 hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>
wrote:r

> Robin, you've made my day.


>
> Smutty dom pancakes whipping the daylights out of cream. Bhahahahhahaaa.
>
> I needed that, after mean laura jv's tirade of squicky images.
>
> *makes faces at laura*

*LICK*

I love you, too.

--laura

hafital

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 June 2000, laura jacquez valentine wrote:

> > Robin, you've made my day.
> >
> > Smutty dom pancakes whipping the daylights out of cream. Bhahahahhahaaa.
> >
> > I needed that, after mean laura jv's tirade of squicky images.
> >
> > *makes faces at laura*
>
> *LICK*
>
> I love you, too.

Aww, nothing like lauralicks (tm) to make you feel right in the world.

hafital

--
"God forbid a straight person should acknowledge that there
are pleasures associated with his anus."

--Phil Hartman

==========================================================
Visit Hafital's Smutty Star Trek Paradise

http://www.geocities.com/hafital2/
______________________________________________________________
Get free Internet service and email at http://www.worldspy.com

laura jacquez valentine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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--On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 11:22 AM -0700 hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>
wrote:r

>> *LICK*


>>
>> I love you, too.
>
> Aww, nothing like lauralicks (tm) to make you feel right in the world.

You're welcome. Oh! Just sent you a postcard, btw.

--laura

hafital

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 June 2000, laura jacquez valentine wrote:

> You're welcome. Oh! Just sent you a postcard, btw.

Hey! I just sent you one too. Fancy that.

hafital


>

--
"God forbid a straight person should acknowledge that there
are pleasures associated with his anus."

--Phil Hartman

==========================================================
Visit Hafital's Smutty Star Trek Paradise

http://www.geocities.com/hafital2/
______________________________________________________________
Get free Internet service and email at http://www.worldspy.com

laura jacquez valentine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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--On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 12:03 PM -0700 hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>
wrote:r

> On Tue, 20 June 2000, laura jacquez valentine wrote:


>
>> You're welcome. Oh! Just sent you a postcard, btw.
>
> Hey! I just sent you one too. Fancy that.
>
> hafital

Niftykeen!! :)

J S Cavalcante

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
Message text written by T'Rhys:

>He's right, it isn't, but only because the term is used by the Deadheads
>(fans of The Grateful Dead?) themselves. It's when terms are applied to
>groups by outsiders that they become derogatory.<

Right, T'Rhys. Thank you.

LL&P
J S Cavalcante

Liz

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
At 07:33 AM 6/20/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I'd say more, but I just can't make myself do it. I don't have it in
me....ahhhhh, I think I'm going to be sick. Where's that AJAX and Mr.
Clean? I need to rinse my brain out.
>
>hafital, apparently as unclean and corrupt as Gamin suggested.

yeah, and lewd too, don't forget. <g>

Liz

J S Cavalcante

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
Message text written by T'Rhys

>He's right, it isn't, but only because the term is used by the Deadheads
>(fans of The Grateful Dead?) themselves. It's when terms are applied to
>groups by outsiders that they become derogatory.<

Right, T'Rhys. Thank you.

LL&P
J S Cavalcante


The Question

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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From: The Question <ques...@spin.net.au>

atara stein wrote:
> Great minds think alike, to coin a phrase. :-) So you hang out on
> ssbb too?

Yeah, though I lurk more than anything. My first hand experience lasted as
long as
something not very long as all, but it's useful for research until I find
someone I
like enough to venture back into the scene. It's the willing submission that
gets me, but it's hard to find people I really like who don't want some other
letter of the BDSM alphabet that I'm willing to accomodate.

--
Jon

-----
We are the people our parents warned us about.

Robin

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Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
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From: hafital <haf...@worldspy.net>

> Visit Hafital's Smutty Star Trek Paradise

Here's why it's time for me to go to bed. I read that sentence here as


"Visit Hafital's smutty Star Trek Pancakes".

Mmmmmm, pancakes. Maybe this is like a reverse treksmut moment. I guess the
pancakes would be in the shape of a com badge or something... No! They're
smutty pancakes, so I guess they'd be shaped like sh*ttl*cr*ft. Covered in
really well whipped cream?

Robin


J S Cavalcante

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Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
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Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com
>Is "Deadhead" derogative?

(My Massachusetts hippie Deadhead second-generation-red-diaper-baby
boyfriend doesn't think so, incidentally.)

--laura<

Deadhead is not--they call themselves that. K/S-head would be.

J S

J S Cavalcante

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Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
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Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com
>IMO, no. And neither is "K/S head" (and I'm very certain that control
wasn't going for that at all and wasn't meaning it to be dismissive), but I
wouldn't want to be called either.<

I hope not. However, I didn't assume that control necessarily meant to be
dismissive. I *asked.*

J S C

hafital

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Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
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On Wed, 21 June 2000, J S Cavalcante wrote:

>
> Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com
> >IMO, no. And neither is "K/S head" (and I'm very certain that control
> wasn't going for that at all and wasn't meaning it to be dismissive), but I
> wouldn't want to be called either.<
>
> I hope not. However, I didn't assume that control necessarily meant to be
> dismissive. I *asked.*


Yes, I know you did. I was just sticking my nose in. :-) Don't mind me...

hafital


--
"God forbid a straight person should acknowledge that there
are pleasures associated with his anus."

--Phil Hartman

==========================================================


Visit Hafital's Smutty Star Trek Paradise

http://www.geocities.com/hafital2/


______________________________________________________________
Get free Internet service and email at http://www.worldspy.com

Stephen Powell

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Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
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From: Stephen Powell <Stephen...@bigpond.com>

On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:52:59 -0400, The Question
<ques...@spin.net.au> wrote:

>From: The Question <ques...@spin.net.au>
>
>atara stein wrote:
>>

>> Well, yes, I totally agree. And writing drag is something of
>> interest
>> to people, hence the volume "Switch Hitters," in which lesbians wrote
>> gay-male erotica, and gay men wrote lesbian erotica.
>
>Sounds interesting. Got the ISBN and other such esoterics by any chance?
>

"Switch Hitters : Lesbians Write Gay Male Erotica and Gay Men Write
Lesbian Erotica" - ISBN 1-57344-021-3

This was published a few years ago. I don't know if its still in
print.

Another couple of titles that Cleis Press published that I liked are
gay vampire short stories.

"Brothers of the Night; Tales of Men, Blood, and Immortality" and
"Sons of Darkness : Tales of Men, Blood and Immortality " both edited
by Michael Rowe and Thomas S. Roche.

I believe Cleis Press also published some lesbian vampire stories if
that floats your boat.
--
Stephen Powell
Work - Stephen...@team.telstra.com, step...@au1.ibm.com
Play - Stephen...@bigpond.com

controlFunction

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Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
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From: controlFunction <control...@wahroonga.com>

OH goodness....!! I WASN'T being dismissive!! I refer to myself as a Doctor
Who head...it was just a generic term to describe someone who is *very very*
interested in something...I'm also a "food" head, a "music" head, a "sex"
head...<no funny remarks thankyou! ;-) > If anything, it is meant a
compliment...I'm sorry if it didn't sound so.

As for Dead head...well Grateful Dead Fans have called themselves that for
years...(I think)....I'll read the rest of the posts before I get
offended...<hee hee>

control
still in love with everyone (well sort of)


laura jacquez valentine wrote:

> --On Tuesday, June 20, 2000, 1:06 AM -0400 J S Cavalcante
> <10276...@compuserve.com> wrote:r
>

> > Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com

> >> control
> > loving everyone equally and hoping hard he/she hasn't pissed anyone off
> > ;-0<
> >

> > I'm not pissed off, control . . . but I ask for clarification on one
> > item: Did you mean to call me a "K/S head?" I prefer the term "K/Ser"
> > or "K/S author." Or "K/S fan" or "K/S devotee" . . .
> >

> > "K/S head" does sound a bit derogatory or at least dismissive.
>

> Is "Deadhead" derogative?
>
> (My Massachusetts hippie Deadhead second-generation-red-diaper-baby
> boyfriend doesn't think so, incidentally.)
>
> --laura
>

J S Cavalcante

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Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
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Message text written by control

>OH goodness....!! I WASN'T being dismissive!! I refer to myself as a
Doctor
Who head...it was just a generic term to describe someone who is *very
very*
interested in something...I'm also a "food" head, a "music" head, a "sex"
head...<no funny remarks thankyou! ;-) > If anything, it is meant a
compliment...I'm sorry if it didn't sound so.<

Thanks for explaining, control. I understand. I didn't want to jump to
conclusions about the term, so that's why I asked you. I am sorry if I
sounded as though I did.

And I love Dr. Who too. <g>

cyber <<<hugs>>>
J S Cavalcante

control Function

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Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
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Yay!!! People love me!
<silly grin>

thanks...you're a darling...

As it is I really dislike nasty behviour, there's just no call for it on
Newsgroups or lists or chats or anything, so I try not to ever do
it...<unless of course I'm just being plain bitchy but that's not often ;-)
> I feel that if someone can't get on with someone else on the internet
then something must be wrong indeed...I mean, it may be the case in real
life but if someone has to carry on like that on the net then they just give
socially inept a brand new definition. I just don't get people who have to
put shit on others...

I love having this (NG,list,net,etc) as an outlet, as frequently I'm
required to "act" in ways in RL that are not as free or as comfortable as
I'd like...(it startles the locals a wee bit when you change sex from day to
day...heheehee) so as a consequence, despite being WAY too paranoid and
often a little too sensitive sometimes...I try my hardest not to ever be
nasty to others <aren't I just Soooo wonderful??>....(unless they want it of
course...but that's a different topic altogether <lecherous grin>...

love
((((hugs))))
and smooches
xxxx

controlFunction

<that's quite enough of that...dam i'm soppy>

>From: J S Cavalcante <10276...@compuserve.com>
>Reply-To: ASC...@egroups.com
>To: "INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com" <ASC...@egroups.com>
>Subject: [ASCEML] Re: Deep thoughts (Re: Gender and smut writers)
>Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:45:36 -0400
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>
>Message text written by control
> >OH goodness....!! I WASN'T being dismissive!! I refer to myself as a
>Doctor
>Who head...it was just a generic term to describe someone who is *very
>very*
>interested in something...I'm also a "food" head, a "music" head, a "sex"
>head...<no funny remarks thankyou! ;-) > If anything, it is meant a
>compliment...I'm sorry if it didn't sound so.<
>
>Thanks for explaining, control. I understand. I didn't want to jump to
>conclusions about the term, so that's why I asked you. I am sorry if I
>sounded as though I did.
>
>And I love Dr. Who too. <g>
>
>cyber <<<hugs>>>
>J S Cavalcante

________________________________________________________________________
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J S Cavalcante

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Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
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Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com
>> I hope not. However, I didn't assume that control necessarily meant to
be
> dismissive. I *asked.*

>Yes, I know you did. I was just sticking my nose in. :-) Don't mind me...
>hafital<

No problem. I just wanted to clarify so as not to hurt control's feelings.
<g>

JS

Laura Goodwin

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Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
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control Function wrote:

> As it is I really dislike nasty behviour, there's just no call for it on
> Newsgroups or lists or chats or anything, so I try not to ever do
> it...<unless of course I'm just being plain bitchy but that's not often ;-)
> > I feel that if someone can't get on with someone else on the internet
> then something must be wrong indeed...I mean, it may be the case in real
> life but if someone has to carry on like that on the net then they just give
> socially inept a brand new definition. I just don't get people who have to
> put shit on others...

Thanks, I agree 100%. I moderate 4 mail lists myself, and the reason I
created them is because I wanted to participate in discussion forums
that allowed NO FLAMING, because I was just sick of the mindbending
hostility that some people are capable of, and often over ~so little~
that it defied the power of my mind to comprehend.

My biggest list DomF (for femdom people) has over 750 members and is
thriving nicely without any flamage at all. People are allowed opposing
opinions, and they can get as fervent in the defense of their views as
they want as long as they don't start insulting each other. This system
actually works very well.

It's a shame so few people know how to simply differ, and argue in favor
of their point in a civilized manner. Sometimes the opposition has a
really good idea. It doesn't hurt to hear them out.

Sad but true: The best people in history had to endure insults, attacks,
imprisonment and worse, even when they did nothing wrong. Don't expect
to escape your share of unmerited calumny. I have found a really thick
skin is very helpful.

--
Laura Goodwin

"Pain is fleeting, glory is forever.
Remember: scars are sexy."

J S Cavalcante

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Jun 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/23/00
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Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com
>(I edit--can't help it, I'm an editos <g>--but NOT enough.)<

ROFL! Editor. I'm an editor. I obviously got kicked upstairs from
"proofreader."

LOLOL

J S C

J S Cavalcante

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Jun 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/23/00
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Message text written by INTERNET:ASC...@egroups.com
>thanks...you're a darling...<

<smile>

>As it is I really dislike nasty behviour, there's just no call for it on
>Newsgroups or lists or chats or anything, so I try not to ever do
>it...<

I do, too. Sometimes, though, a comment that is meant perfectly innocently
is construed as being negative. We are basically having written "verbal"
communications in this medium, and in spoken English, the vocal inflection
is all-important. (I have a Russian friend who is a fairly recent emigre,
and I notice every time she speaks that the vocal inflection is totally
missing from her understanding of English. I can't even explain it to
her--she doesn't even hear it!) We don't have that available to us in this
medium--which I why I differ with those who would do away with emoticons.
Okay, so they're cutesy and so on. But we NEED them! <g> And most of us
don't edit our posts three and four times before hitting "send," either--we
blurt. (I edit--can't help it, I'm an editos <g>--but NOT enough.)

>(it startles the locals a wee bit when you change sex from day to
>day...heheehee)

As they say, as long as you don't do it in the streets and frighten the
horses <g>.

>.I try my hardest not to ever be
>nasty to others <aren't I just Soooo wonderful??>

Yes. I am sorry I even suggested that "K/S head" might be dismissive. (I
still don't want to be called that, though <g>.) I should just have asked:
"<ahem> What's a K/S head, exactly?" and allowed you to explain.

>love
>((((hugs))))
>and smooches
>xxxx
>controlFunction
>that's quite enough of that...dam i'm soppy>

Don't stop on my account. <g>

<<<hugs>>>
J S Cavalcante

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