Euro 2000 Final
Benny
TREZEGUET HERO, DEL PIERO VILLAIN
FRANCE 2-1 ITALY
Wiltord 94 Delvecchio 55
Trezeguet 103
Henry hit the outside of the post with a cross/shot. Pessotto and Fiore
combined on the right, Fiore pulled back a perfect cross to the far post but
Delvecchio volleyed wide. Henry destroyed Nesta on the left flank before
cutting inside and taking a pop at goal, the ball landed at Djorkaeff's feet
but his miserable shot was easily saved. Desailly should have been sent off
for elbowing Cannavaro in a crowded penalty area, the officials didn't see
it.
Cannavaro made a fantastic tackle in the box as Henry was put through by
Zidane. Totti slipped in Pessotto with a delightful back heel through
Lizarazu's legs, Pessotto whipped in a teasing first time cross and
Delvecchio volleyed into the top corner. Magnificent goal. Thuram should
have been sent off for going through the back of Totti whose trademark over
reaction probably didn't help. Totti gave Del Piero a gift with a superb
pass, Del Piero, one on one with Barthez, shot hopelessly wide. Nesta made
the tackle of the tournament, sliding in to rip the ball from Wiltord's feet
without bringing him down. Toldo made an excellent block with his feet from
Henry's close range effort. Delvecchio volleyed wide, Totti with another
superb pass. Substitute Ambrosini gave Del Piero another 100% chance with a
superbly weighted pass but his limp shot was easily saved. Surprisingly Zoff
substituted Delvecchio for Montella late in the match. Deep into injury time
Trezeguet flicked on Barthez's goal kick, Cannavaro headed the ball straight
to Wiltord, he bounced it off his chest and fired past Toldo who was late
going down.
Toldo spilled a drive by Pires and took a kick in the face from Trezeguet on
the follow up, breaking his nose in the process. Pires intercepted a poorly
controlled ball by Albertini, ran past him unchallenged, no surprise
there, teased Cannavaro by showing him the ball before whipping it away and
pulling back a fabulous cross, through Nesta's legs, for Trezeguet to hammer
a spectacular first time shot high into the roof of the net. Assist of the
tournament and arguably the goal of the tournament.
A fantastic match. Italy, surprisingly, took the game to France and should
have won comfortably. Zidane had his usual Serie A game (and that's no
exaggeration) i.e. he was hopeless. Henry abused the Italian defence all
match but didn't get any change out of Toldo. Nesta was the pick of the
defenders. Cannavaro was brilliant for 90 minutes but went to sleep on the
first goal. The real villain was Del Piero who made two unforgivable,
treacherous misses that will haunt him for the rest of his life. Not
sure where the ref found four minutes of injury time from a the end of
normal time.
Man Of The Match : Totti - Gave a classic performance, the type he used to
give on a weekly basis before the arrival of Nakata. It's not the first
time he's gave an outstanding performance and ended up on the loosing
side, after all he plays for Roma.
Assists : Pessotto to Delvecchio
Pires to Trezeguet
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a man steals your wife, there is no better revenge than to let
him keep her. Sacha Guitry
Laurent Bollini
>
> TREZEGUET HERO, DEL PIERO VILLAIN
>
> FRANCE 2-1 ITALY
> Wiltord 94 Delvecchio 55
> Trezeguet 103
>
>
Man of the match : Wiltord of course !
Not only because he scored but especially because with his dribbles he
gave a serious threat to the italien defence, almost as well as Henry.
Canavarro should have been sent off for lying down at the feet of Henry and
thus
prevented him to go for a one-on-one with Toldo,
Henry who by-the-way has also been "ejected" - the word is not too strong - by
another defender who pulled his shirt, then rotating on the left and pushed him
down
on the ground : another red card not given.
>
Djamel Boudjerda
Benny <Be...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Zidane had his usual Serie A game (and that's no
> exaggeration) i.e. he was hopeless.
Actually he's being hailed as the BEST player in the world at the moment,
and he proved it in Euro 2000. Pele and many other footballing legends
don't seem to agree with your assessment of the most elegant player of the
modern game.
So why don't you stick to what you're good at - useless stats!
>
> Man Of The Match : Totti - Gave a classic performance, the type he used to
Man of the match was Henry.
IH8CRAP
>Actually he's being hailed as the BEST player in the world at
>the moment,and he proved it in Euro 2000. Pele and many other
>footballing legends don't seem to agree with your assessment of
>the most elegant player of the modern game. So why don't you
>stick to what you're good at - useless stats!
Zidane was the best player for France in the tournament, but in
the final game I agree that Henry was probably the most dangerous
French player. Henry was the guy that the Italians the most
trouble, not Zinedine,Petit,Djokaeff,or others.
>Man of the match was Henry.
I have to agree...he gave the Italians fits throughout the game.
Wiltord and Trezeguet, lesser players on the French team, scored
the goals, but Henry's penetrating runs were clearly leaving the
Italians mismatched. Henry's speed was too much.
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Aqua Di Gio
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <3960825D...@ti.com>...
>> 2 JULY 2000
>>
>> TREZEGUET HERO, DEL PIERO VILLAIN
>>
>> FRANCE 2-1 ITALY
>> Wiltord 94 Delvecchio 55
>> Trezeguet 103
>>
>> Man Of The Match : Totti -
>>
>
>Man of the match : Wiltord of course !
>Not only because he scored but especially because with his dribbles he
>gave a serious threat to the italien defence, almost as well as Henry.
>
>Canavarro should have been sent off for lying down at the feet of Henry and
>thus
>prevented him to go for a one-on-one with Toldo,
>Henry who by-the-way has also been "ejected" - the word is not too strong -
by
>another defender who pulled his shirt, then rotating on the left and pushed
him
>down
>on the ground : another red card not given.
Neither were fouls, or close to the elbows and shots to the back of the head
that Ambrosini took from Desailly and Blanc. Both tretcherous plays!
Aqua Di Gio
Djamel Boudjerda wrote in message <8jq90r$1rm$1...@ftel.ftel.co.uk>...
>In article <Ri+tRYA7...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk>,
>Benny <Be...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Zidane had his usual Serie A game (and that's no
>> exaggeration) i.e. he was hopeless.
>Actually he's being hailed as the BEST player in the world at the moment,
>and he proved it in Euro 2000. Pele and many other footballing legends
>don't seem to agree with your assessment of the most elegant player of the
>modern game.
Lets not worry about what politico's like Pele think. He may have been one
of the best footballers in his day, but in terms of perspective - he has
none. Picking Columbia to win in 1990, Sweden in 94 and Nigeria in 98, as
well as England (bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha) this Euro's is proof enough
that the man
is more of a dreamer than realistic. Not only that but he was ignorant
enough to mention something about really liking Navaro, Testa, and Delpietro
of the Italian team. The man is not all there.
>So why don't you stick to what you're good at - useless stats!
Its a fact that Zidane has been less than spectacular for Juventus. He and
Del Piero switch roles. Del Piero is spectacular for Juventus and sub par
for Italy, and Zidane vice versa. He is great for France and average in
Serie A.
>> Man Of The Match : Totti - Gave a classic performance, the type he used
to
>Man of the match was Henry.
Henry was useless.
Aqua Di Gio
>D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk (Djamel Boudjerda) wrote:
>
>>Actually he's being hailed as the BEST player in the world at
>>footballing legends don't seem to agree with your assessment of
>>stick to what you're good at - useless stats!
>
>the final game I agree that Henry was probably the most dangerous
>French player. Henry was the guy that the Italians the most
>trouble, not Zinedine,Petit,Djokaeff,or others.
>
>
>
>
>Wiltord and Trezeguet, lesser players on the French team, scored
>the goals, but Henry's penetrating runs were clearly leaving the
>Italians mismatched. Henry's speed was too much.
How so, they never created anything! Wiltord was the deadly one, penetrating
the right side again and scoring with 30 seconds left.
Benny
> From : Djamel Boudjerda <D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk>
>Actually he's being hailed as the BEST player in the world at the moment,
>and he proved it in Euro 2000. Pele and many other footballing legends
>don't seem to agree with your assessment of the most elegant player of the
>modern game.
"Zidane does some extraordinary things, it's true but you have to put
everything in context, what Zidane does with a ball, Maradona could do
with an orange." Michel Platini
Pele say's whatever is convenient at the time.
>So why don't you stick to what you're good at - useless stats!
Facts are facts and bullshit is bullshit. Zidane yesterday played like
he normally does in Serie A. He's not the king of football, he's the
king of frauds. If you like ball juggling go to a circus, there's no
point if there is no end product and with Zidane there is usually no end
product.
Johnny99
"Benny" <Be...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cjg+xLC8...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk...
> >
> . He's not the king of football, he's the
> king of frauds. If you like ball juggling go to a circus, there's no
> point if there is no end product and with Zidane there is usually no end
> product.
>
Sad to report, Zidane probably is the best player in the world.....
It is not his fault there's so much mediocrity in the competition.
--
J99
"All is yellow, hot, hot, hot."
Laurent Bollini
> Neither were fouls, or close to the elbows and shots to the back of the head
> that Ambrosini took from Desailly and Blanc. Both tretcherous plays!
Everyone knows that Italy is the specialist of trichery, look at what Inzaghi
did to win against Turkey you needed a penalty, that's why he flyed into the
box...Desailly and Blanc were simply far better and did a great match, unlike
Canavarro and Nesta who accumulates faults and one of them has been
fortunately punished.
Anyway France not only won by the score, but also by the number of yellow
cards, only one for France, three for Italy, and you've been lucky to get
only three yellow, this should have been two red cards at least.
Don't cry on the defeat of Italy, they deserved it : now you'll avoid to taunt
the opponents before the enc of the match :-D
Laurent Bollini
> >Actually he's being hailed as the BEST player in the world at the moment,
> >and he proved it in Euro 2000. Pele and many other footballing legends
> >don't seem to agree with your assessment of the most elegant player of the
> >modern game.
>
> "Zidane does some extraordinary things, it's true but you have to put
> everything in context, what Zidane does with a ball, Maradona could do
> with an orange." Michel Platini
>
Yes and Maradona could also do it with the Hand of God ?
>
> >So why don't you stick to what you're good at - useless stats!
>
> Facts are facts and bullshit is bullshit. Zidane yesterday played like
> he normally does in Serie A. He's not the king of football, he's the
> king of frauds. If you like ball juggling go to a circus, there's no
> point if there is no end product and with Zidane there is usually no end
> product.
I believe Serie A players know Zidane better than you, and EVERY Italian
player has a lot of respect for him and therefore they try to prevent him
to create gameplay as much as they can.
He's probably not Pele but he's actually one of the best players of all time,
if players in the whole world admit it why don't you ?
Aqua Di Gio
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <396184E7...@ti.com>...
>>
>> Neither were fouls, or close to the elbows and shots to the back of the
head
>> that Ambrosini took from Desailly and Blanc. Both tretcherous plays!
>
>Everyone knows that Italy is the specialist of trichery, look at what
Inzaghi
>did to win against Turkey you needed a penalty, that's why he flyed into
the
>box...Desailly and Blanc were simply far better and did a great match,
unlike
>Canavarro and Nesta who accumulates faults and one of them has been
>fortunately punished.
Lets not get overly stupid here. We all saw TWO blatant elbows to heads from
Desailly, and even one from Thuram. Both would be penalized with red or
yellows (by a leniant ref) if they were caught. Each side had their moments.
You are just jumping on the Italian basing band wagon because its convenient
to do. Get over it. Your team won. They played well to stay in it, but we
all know it should have been over if Del Piero wasn't a big game choker!
>Anyway France not only won by the score, but also by the number of yellow
>cards, only one for France, three for Italy, and you've been lucky to get
>only three yellow, this should have been two red cards at least.
You were lucky to get only one yellow, and should have had at least 3 or 4.
Even when Zidane went up with his studs showing for the ball...that is at
least a yellow. Or when he ran over Albertini, another yellow. When Desailly
elbowed Totti in the back of the head - a red for sure, same when Thuram did
it.
>Don't cry on the defeat of Italy, they deserved it : now you'll avoid to
taunt
>the opponents before the enc of the match :-D
Works both ways. Don't be overly arrogant. Deschamps is gone, Blanc too.
Zidane is already going downhill. Barthez is over rated. Thuram is not as
good as two years ago. Petit is getting on in age.
France you will do well tomake it to the next Semi Finals in WC 2002.
Hopefully Italy can meet you there for our well deserved revenge.
Djamel Boudjerda
Benny <Be...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Subject : Euro 2000 Final
> > From : Djamel Boudjerda <D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk>
>
> >and he proved it in Euro 2000. Pele and many other footballing legends
> >don't seem to agree with your assessment of the most elegant player of the
> >modern game.
>
> "Zidane does some extraordinary things, it's true but you have to put
> everything in context, what Zidane does with a ball, Maradona could do
> with an orange." Michel Platini
>
Because this team has succeeded where he and his team failed. He is
envious of Zidane's achievements. And also he wants to remain THE
FRENCH legend.
> Pele say's whatever is convenient at the time.
What's so convenient about what he said with regards Zidane?
>
> >So why don't you stick to what you're good at - useless stats!
>
> Facts are facts and bullshit is bullshit. Zidane yesterday played like
> he normally does in Serie A. He's not the king of football, he's the
> king of frauds. If you like ball juggling go to a circus, there's no
> point if there is no end product and with Zidane there is usually no end
> product.
Nobody said Zidane played well in the Final on Sunday. In fact he was
anonymous especially in the first half. I have seen him play in Serie A on a
number of occasions, and more often than not, he played well. But when you
have someboby like Inzaghi playing in front of you and missing chance after
chance that you've just created for him, I should think it's disheartening!
Zidane is not a showman, in fact he always prefers to play straight and simple
football but he can be a wizard when he has to - what a great player he is!
Laurent Bollini
> Laurent Bollini wrote in message <396184E7...@ti.com>...
>
> Lets not get overly stupid here. We all saw TWO blatant elbows to heads from
> Desailly, and even one from Thuram. Both would be penalized with red or
> yellows (by a leniant ref) if they were caught. Each side had their moments.
> You are just jumping on the Italian basing band wagon because its convenient
> to do.
what do you mean ? That Italian players are never took by the referee rolling
three or four times on the ground while nothing - or very few - happens ?
Why do you think your players have such a reputation ? There's no smoke without
fire like we say here, many countries try to abuse the referee but some Italian
players, and especially Inzaghi are specialists. He allows Italy to won a very
undeserved victory thanks to that. So I'm just telling the truth, as everybody
saw Italian players during the final simulating, and you should not talk
about aggression as the worst ones have been committed by Italy on Henry.
Learn to accept defeat instead of trying to find excuses. Read the stats of
the match and you'll see that on EVERY point France leads, except of
course for yellow cards !
> Your team won. They played well to stay in it, but we
> all know it should have been over if Del Piero wasn't a big game choker!
>
>
My god, I hate this sort of statement which means NOTHING.
With "ifs" you could put Paris in a bottle, another french proverb for you.
>
> Works both ways. Don't be overly arrogant.
Your team started it on the field, don't protest
if after the victory we take a well deserved revenge.
> Deschamps is gone, Blanc too.
> Zidane is already going downhill. Barthez is over rated. Thuram is not as
> good as two years ago. Petit is getting on in age.
>
Yes, Deschamps is to old and has BTW retired unofficially from national team.
Zidane ? He's at the top, and will be on the field in 2002, what are u talking
about ?
Barthez is certainly not the best goalkeeper in the world, but don't be too
proud of Toldo who's been
incredibly lucky against Holland and helped by very bad penalty kickers.
After all we passed over him two times.
Thuram also weakened, but do you really think Maldini will be on the field in
2002 ?
He wasn't very good during the final, and make many mistakes.
For Petit also, what you say has no sense, he's been very good all along the
tournament.
>
> France you will do well tomake it to the next Semi Finals in WC 2002.
> Hopefully Italy can meet you there for our well deserved revenge.
Yes you can always have hope, that's all you get anyway :-D
We keep beating you for 22 years now, so I guess one day this will end,
but you really deserved nothing in this tournament.
Regards,
Laurent.
Per Samuelsson
Aqua Di Gio wrote in message ...
>
>Lets not worry about what politico's like Pele think. He may have been one
>of the best footballers in his day, but in terms of perspective - he has
>none. Picking Columbia to win in 1990, Sweden in 94 and Nigeria in 98
If we shouldn't worry about what Pele thinks, than why the hell should we
worry about what someone like you, who do not even to the difference between
Columbia and Colombia, thinks?
Besides picking Sweden in '94 was so bad after all, was it?
cuca...@my-deja.com
> Desailly and Blanc were simply far better and did a great match,
unlike
> Canavarro and Nesta
If you think this you don't understand even the basics of football. So
why do you post in this forum ?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
imho...@optushome.com.au
If Italy deserved 2 reds then what did Desailly and Thuram deserve?
Two black cards? Intentionally elbowing players? 9 month ban. And
Trezeguet for coming in studs up into Toldos head?
You are a jack ass.
Fair is fair.
France won, because they played better from the start of the tournament
right to the end. But Italy were better in the final.
This is football. Luck is always a factor. Italy had luck against Holland.
France had luck against Italy.
Over a billion people saw this on TV. What were you watching? Wimbledon??
in article 396184E7...@ti.com, Laurent Bollini at l-bo...@ti.com
wrote on 03/07/2000 10:20 PM:
>>
>> Neither were fouls, or close to the elbows and shots to the back of the head
>> that Ambrosini took from Desailly and Blanc. Both tretcherous plays!
>
> Everyone knows that Italy is the specialist of trichery, look at what Inzaghi
> did to win against Turkey you needed a penalty, that's why he flyed into the
> box...Desailly and Blanc were simply far better and did a great match, unlike
> Canavarro and Nesta who accumulates faults and one of them has been
> fortunately punished.
>
> Anyway France not only won by the score, but also by the number of yellow
> cards, only one for France, three for Italy, and you've been lucky to get
> only three yellow, this should have been two red cards at least.
>
Jonathan
"Laurent Bollini" <l-bo...@ti.com> wrote in message
news:3961A19E...@ti.com...
> Yes you can always have hope, that's all you get anyway :-D
> We keep beating you for 22 years now, so I guess one day this will end,
> but you really deserved nothing in this tournament.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Laurent.
Laurent,
you must have a very boring life.
France won, and there's nothing to say about that, it was one of the
strongest team and they fought 'til the very last minute and so they
deserved it. But please use your mind while talking: They could have lost
just as easily...
I'm italian, and I accepted the result, France is strong and is the champion
and I do mean they deserved it. But remember that saying that your opponent
is weak just makes your victory less worthy.
Just begin thinking,
and stop bullshitting around.
J.
Aqua Di Gio
>
>Aqua Di Gio wrote in message ...
>>
>>Lets not worry about what politico's like Pele think. He may have been one
>>of the best footballers in his day, but in terms of perspective - he has
>>none. Picking Columbia to win in 1990, Sweden in 94 and Nigeria in 98
>If we shouldn't worry about what Pele thinks, than why the hell should we
>worry about what someone like you,
Who said you should, dipshit? You're the one following me around and
responding to my messages, which shows you have some interest in what I say.
Otherwise, go fuck a cow for all I care. Your opinions are laughable at
best.
>who do not even to the difference between
>Columbia and Colombia, thinks?
Wow, a spelling mistake. Gee that must totally discredit me now. Must be
because I live in BRITISH COLUMBIA...gee so sorry.
>Besides picking Sweden in '94 was so bad after all, was it?
They didn't win, did they?
Aqua Di Gio
France deserved to win, Laurent, I never said otherwise. I merely said, that
Italy was the better team. Pick up any newspaper and you WILL read the same.
I also said the negative tactics work both ways, but your proud arrogant ass
can't admit that Desailly elbowed an Italian, blatanlty, TWO times as well
as Thuram, and your precious Zidane walked over Albertini in the dying
minutes.
Italy had a right to celebrate, it was almost over, and should have been.
Toldo played awesome in this years Italian championships and Champions
league, and was regarded as best keeper in the tournament.
Maldini will outlast any of the French back four, and if he doesn't, WHO
CARES...we have Nesta and Cannavarro for the next 3 championships at least.
Who do you have? No one.
Zidane may be at the next tournament, he isn't old, and I never said he was.
I said he is at the top of his game...he WON'T get better, even Platini has
the common sense to admit Zidane is not in the same class as himself or a
Maradonna. Don't let it get to your head.
You won the WC because you were the best team, but you couldn't beat Italy.
You barely won this game, and didn't deserve to.
You are WC and EC champions and have a solid team, regardless of being
outplayed in this final. Next time we won't be so nice...we'll put in Vieri
who will
have no problem burying those chances that "choke" Del Piero missed.
Overall record vs France:
Italy 16 wins 8 Ties 7 Losses
You can bank on that win total increasing.
--
Aqua
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Rui’s Conspiracy theories:
From: Rui Neves <nev...@home.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:22 AM
“I happen to love Italian soccer.”
followed by:
“If you like I can list all of the cheating, bribery and other
’questionable’ ethics in Italian football.”
“Or did you have special seminars on diving, cheating and other "fair play"
technique before the start of Euro 2000? “
“Yes, and your lucky that UEFA protects your ass. Otherwise Italy 1
Turkey 1.”
“At least, we don't cheat half as much as you do.”
-----------
Sidd's love for the Azzurri:
From: sidd <sid...@my-deja.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kick some butt, England!
"Romania will knock Italy out. My prediction."
"Italy can easily be beaten by Romania..."
> Easily???
"Yes."
> Are you sure, sidd?
"Yes."
> What are you relying on?
"Toldo."
"He makes terrible mistakes"
>And to be fair to you Sidd, you did say this:
But honestly, Italy can win if they play their perfect
professional game,
>but followed up with this:
which I somehow doubt. They havent
been good against Turkey and Sweden.
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <3961A19E...@ti.com>...
Aqua Di Gio
cuca...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8jsa74$30g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>
>> Desailly and Blanc were simply far better and did a great match,
>> unlike Canavarro and Nesta
>If you think this you don't understand even the basics of football. So
>why do you post in this forum ?
It boils down to ignorance and pride.
They have bragging rights, and there is always going to be one fan or
another that will abuse it.
Benny
> From : Aqua Di Gio <aq...@home.com>
>Neither were fouls, or close to the elbows and shots to the back of the
>head that Ambrosini took from Desailly and Blanc. Both tretcherous
>plays!
Ambrosini can take it, he's a rock.
Laurent Bollini
> You are a clown.
You know what you're talking about...
>
>
>
> And
> Trezeguet for coming in studs up into Toldos head?
>
It was an A-C-C-I-D-E-N-T ! Trezeguet is not stupid, he didn't meant
to broke Toldo's nose, this was obvious for the referee and for everyone but you.
>
> You are a jack ass.
>
Fuck you, loser.
>
> Fair is fair.
>
Don't talk about what you ignore.
>
> France won, because they played better from the start of the tournament
> right to the end. But Italy were better in the final.
Italy was good but less good than France, if not they would have won. Period.
>
> This is football. Luck is always a factor. Italy had luck against Holland.
> France had luck against Italy.
>
France has no luck, are you a moron ? They scored normally in the injury
time, where's the lucky part in this ??
>
> Over a billion people saw this on TV. What were you watching? Wimbledon??
Probably not in front of the same match than you, personally I was watching
the final of Euro 2000 between France and Italy.
Laurent Bollini
> >
> >> Desailly and Blanc were simply far better and did a great match,
> >> unlike Canavarro and Nesta
>
> >If you think this you don't understand even the basics of football. So
> >why do you post in this forum ?
>
> It boils down to ignorance and pride.
>
Here again you know what you're talking about : if you're not arrogant and
pride, why don't you accept the deserved defeat of your team ?
Laurent Bollini
> France deserved to win, Laurent, I never said otherwise.
> I merely said, that
> Italy was the better team.
What a contradiction ! How could a team deserved to win if it's less good ?
I think you're really a moron :
all you say is leaded by only one thing : you cannot fairly accept that your
team has been defeated by a BETTER team than yours.
Give me only ONE fair argument to explain why your team did not
deserve to loose. You just insist on faults commited by Desailly and
Zidane like if this should explain everything ?
Are you an accountant ? Do you REALLY want to count the number of
faults commited by the two teams ? I hope for you not, you're ridiculous
enough.
Stop being negative and try to give me positive arguments to explain
why Italy has been better, I'm curious to hear it.
IMHO, as EVERY match stat is in favour of France you cannot even
think about not deserving to loose.
> Pick up any newspaper and you WILL read the same.
>
This is simply : wrong ! Read at some of the news posted on english forums
and you'll see that opinions, like everywhere except probably in Italy,
are shared.
> I also said the negative tactics work both ways, but your proud arrogant ass
> can't admit that Desailly elbowed an Italian, blatanlty, TWO times as well
> as Thuram, and your precious Zidane walked over Albertini in the dying
> minutes.
>
Ooooh pooor Italians players I'm really sad about it, it's true that they
never,
never commited any fault themselves. They just got what they deserved, IMHO.
I 'll add that Desailly's elbow was provoked by the fact that he got rid to be
constantly pushed and pulled himself. Unfortunately, he can't control well
his nerves and should have been yellow carded.
Could you explain me why Italy wear so tight shirts ? To avoid being pulled ?
Actually these guys know what could happened to them, to have experienced it
all the time on the other side !
>
> Italy had a right to celebrate, it was almost over, and should have been.
>
Fucking illusion. You're actually stupid. A match is over when the referee
decides it.
>
> Toldo played awesome in this years Italian championships and Champions
> league, and was regarded as best keeper in the tournament.
>
Yes he's actually a good keeper, but if you had seen the matches of France
during
the Tournament, what you obviously didn't do, you'll see that he saves his
team several times and as a consequence is absolutely not overrated.
>
> Zidane may be at the next tournament, he isn't old, and I never said he was.
> I said he is at the top of his game...he WON'T get better, even Platini has
> the common sense to admit Zidane is not in the same class as himself or a
> Maradonna. Don't let it get to your head.
>
Platini is just envious about Zidane who made what he couldn't do in several
attempts :
winning the world cup. So you're also naive ?
And yes, Maradona is actually one of the best players of all times, LIKE
Zidane.
>
> You won the WC because you were the best team, but you couldn't beat Italy.
>
Now it's done :-D
If I have a doubt about one team it should be Holland as we avoid them during
the wc and loose to them with our substitutes, but surely not Italy !
>
> You barely won this game, and didn't deserve to.
>
Bad bad bad loser.
>
> You are WC and EC champions and have a solid team, regardless of being
> outplayed in this final.
Outplayed ? Buy glasses ! Once more, read the stats !
> Next time we won't be so nice...we'll put in Vieri
> who will
> have no problem burying those chances that "choke" Del Piero missed.
>
Next time, we'll put Petit instead of Deschamps who'll have no problem
to stop Vieri...if the latter don't let him fall on the ground of course !
>
Regards,
Laurent
IH8CRAP
>IH8CRAP wrote in message
>How so, they never created anything! Wiltord was the deadly one,
>penetrating the right side again and scoring with 30 seconds
>left.
Henry was the one causing the Italian defenders to foul him.
Henry didn't have many opportunities to do much in terms of
scoring because of the way the Italian team packed the box with
defenders, Wiltord's goal came because he was in a good position
when the ball came to him...he wasn't smothered like Henry.
Cedric Adjih
> If Italy deserved 2 reds then what did Desailly and Thuram deserve?
At least yellow, and maybe red. But usually these kinds of fouls
are "revenge" and escalation from unsportsting conduct from
other players (diving, insults, bringing Henry down, pulling his
tee-shirt, generalized tee-shirt pulling, deliberate fouls,
dubious fouls [including elbowning], retaliation from other
matches [Zidane], ...), or frustation.
Do you REALLY think they risked a red card, and they elbowed
them for ABSOLUTLY NO REASON ? There are more profitable ways
to risk a red card...
The Italian fouls were much more "clever". Look, among of these two
players, who is the one that was brought down before going to
one-on-one, and who is the one who wasn't: Del Pierro, Henry.
> Two black cards? Intentionally elbowing players? 9 month ban. And
> Trezeguet for coming in studs up into Toldos head?
Toldo didn't stop the ball cleanly. He let it escape. Trezeguet HAD
to try to shot the ball, but Toldo got it back. If you look at the
game, the referee came instantly between the two men, because
of course he saw Trezeguet just tried to score the golden goal
on Toldo mistake.
> You are a jack ass.
> Fair is fair.
> France won, because they played better from the start of the tournament
> right to the end. But Italy were better in the final.
I disagree. Italy was probably as good as France, but not necessarily
better. After scoring they played defensively, and France offensively
(and this gave several counter-attacking chances to Italy).
In extra time, Italy wasn't better, and this is where they really
lost the match.
> This is football. Luck is always a factor. Italy had luck against Holland.
> France had luck against Italy.
Maybe. But Wiltord's shot was only the last of a series of 5 similar ones
from similar positions. After all France had 19 shots to Toldo's goal,
while Italy had 10 to Barthez' one.
> Over a billion people saw this on TV. What were you watching? Wimbledon??
-- Cedric
Roge
Why don't you French and Italian fans just appreciate what a f'king superb
footballing spectacle your teams gave the rest of the world and get over your
petty childish rantings. You've both got excellent teams full of guts and
flair. You have players in every position who can do their job and then some
more, managers who have a footballing brain and fans who aren't arseholes.
Thank God you're not England fans.
Laurent Bollini
> Bloody Hell !
> Why don't you French and Italian fans just appreciate what a f'king superb
> footballing spectacle your teams gave the rest of the world and get over your
> petty childish rantings. You've both got excellent teams full of guts and
> flair. You have players in every position who can do their job and then some
> more, managers who have a footballing brain and fans who aren't arseholes.
> Thank God you're not England fans.
>
Roge, you're right.
I'm tired of reading insults and answering the same, I'm tired of all this.
Before reading some posts here I thought this has been a great match,
that both teams were good and that the best won.
But I got too angry to read unfair statements and couldn't control myself, so I
apologize.
Aqua Di Gio, I'm sorry to have insulted you, I shouldn't have done this,
I don't want to become a Hooligan or any other kind of fanatic.
I sincerely thinks that Italy played well, though I keep thinking that the best
team won.
We shouldn't forget that after all it's just a game...
Thanks again Roge.
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
> So I'm just telling the truth, as everybody
>saw Italian players during the final simulating
??
Who? When?
And, mostly, what did you smoke while watching the game ?!
>and you should not talk
>about aggression as the worst ones have been committed by Italy on Henry.
There have been 3 elbowing. 1 by Cannavaro, 1 by Desailly, 1 by Blanc.
>Learn to accept defeat instead of trying to find excuses. Read the stats of
>the match and you'll see that on EVERY point France leads, except of
>course for yellow cards !
You can send stats to an american. If you wish to talk about football,
forget them.
>Yes you can always have hope, that's all you get anyway :-D
>We keep beating you for 22 years now, so I guess one day this will end
And, after all, I think we still beated you 18 times on 25 (or
something like that).
Claudio Mantelli
Remove SPAMMERSF*CK from my email address to reply
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
>> Neither were fouls, or close to the elbows and shots to the back of the head
>> that Ambrosini took from Desailly and Blanc. Both tretcherous plays!
>
>Everyone knows that Italy is the specialist of trichery
Don't be silly. Have a look at the replys and you'lle see Desailly and
Blanc elbowing (and since I'm not that biased as some think, also
Cannavaro did once and wasn't noticed).
Look at that tape again, and, btw, you won't see Ambrosini asking for
a yellow card.
>look at what Inzaghi
>did to win against Turkey you needed a penalty, that's why he flyed into the
>box...
And many of us pointed it out here.
Then, if you're not biased, you will also agree that Di Livio's goal
wasn't offside.
>Desailly and Blanc were simply far better and did a great match, unlike
>Canavarro and Nesta who accumulates faults and one of them has been
>fortunately punished.
Nobody said Desailly and Blanc didn't play well, moron.
We said they elbowed and that's a fact.
Anyway, Cannavaro and Nesta imohave been the best defenders by far and
I think many might agree.
>Anyway France not only won by the score, but also by the number of yellow
>cards, only one for France, three for Italy and you've been lucky to get
>only three yellow, this should have been two red cards at least.
Of course, if you believe it...
>Don't cry on the defeat of Italy, they deserved it
Of course, if you believe it...
>now you'll avoid to taunt
>the opponents before the enc of the match :-D
A thing that everybody does, so blame your players too when they do
it.
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
>Platini has a dig at everybody in the French team - you know why?
>Because this team has succeeded where he and his team failed.
This France is stronger than Platini's.
>He is
>envious of Zidane's achievements. And also he wants to remain THE
>FRENCH legend.
He is. Zizou is a great player, but Platini was absolutely better.
>Nobody said Zidane played well in the Final on Sunday. In fact he was
>anonymous especially in the first half. I have seen him play in Serie A on a
>number of occasions, and more often than not, he played well. But when you
>have someboby like Inzaghi playing in front of you and missing chance after
>chance that you've just created for him, I should think it's disheartening!
Even if Inzaghi is not the kind of player I like, when you score an
average of 20 goals in a league like serie A you deserve respect as a
striker.
>Zidane is not a showman, in fact he always prefers to play straight and simple
>football but he can be a wizard when he has to - what a great player he is!
Indeed he is. What's the point?
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
>Stop being negative and try to give me positive arguments to explain
>why Italy has been better, I'm curious to hear it.
I can give you some...
1) because Italy controlled the game in the first half and in most of
the second half, with France pressing hardly just in the final
minutes. Of course you may think I'm biased, as I obviously think of
you, but the neutrals I've heard also agree that Italy played better
on sunday
2) because the french players themselves admitted in different
interviews that Italy played better and deserved to win. This, of
course, not neglecting the great effort french did to recover.
3) Totti outplayed Zidane, who didn't even play badly himself, but
simply had always somebody around when trying to invent something.
>IMHO, as EVERY match stat is in favour of France you cannot even
>think about not deserving to loose.
Stats in football may mean something only to americans.
They are worthless, that's why, telling you that Italy controlled the
game, I didn't mention that the percentage of ball possession was in
our favor.
Ball possession, shots...they mean nothing, since they don't explain
if the shots were dangerous, if the ball possession was useful...
stats can be good in a sport like tennis, not in football.
>Platini is just envious about Zidane who made what he couldn't do in several
>attempts :
>winning the world cup. So you're also naive ?
>And yes, Maradona is actually one of the best players of all times, LIKE
>Zidane.
I like Zidane a lot, but any comparison with Maradona is foolish.
You can say that only if you never saw Maradona playing.
>If I have a doubt about one team it should be Holland as we avoid them during
>the wc and loose to them with our substitutes, but surely not Italy !
That proves being blind. I wouldn't define Italy far superior to a
team beaten once on penalties and once thanks to a goal scored at
93th.
I would say "we won it", but not "we're far superior"
>> You are WC and EC champions and have a solid team, regardless of being
>> outplayed in this final.
>
>Outplayed ? Buy glasses ! Once more, read the stats !
Buy glasses. And use them to watch matches, not to read stats.
>Next time, we'll put Petit instead of Deschamps who'll have no problem
>to stop Vieri...if the latter don't let him fall on the ground of course !
I didn't know we wanted to play Vieri in the midfield...
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
>Italy was good but less good than France, if not they would have won. Period.
Of course, that's what always happens, luck never plays a part in
victories...maybe just when Italy wins...
>France has no luck, are you a moron ? They scored normally in the injury
>time, where's the lucky part in this ??
Also when you hit the post 10 times it's normal, since it's part of
the game.
Though I call it luck.
Benny
> From : Djamel Boudjerda <D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk>
>> Pele say's whatever is convenient at the time.
>
>What's so convenient about what he said with regards Zidane?
Someone brought up the Pele comment not me.
>Nobody said Zidane played well in the Final on Sunday. In fact he was
>anonymous especially in the first half. I have seen him play in Serie A
>on a number of occasions, and more often than not, he played well. But
>when you have someboby like Inzaghi playing in front of you and missing
>chance after chance that you've just created for him, I should think
>it's disheartening!
He does not create chance after chance and even taking into account
Inzaghi's misses how did Del Piero end up with 15 assists and Zidane
only 1?
Benny
> From : Laurent Bollini <l-bo...@ti.com>
>I believe Serie A players know Zidane better than you, and EVERY Italian
How often do players criticise each other? I can't recall Del Piero ever
saying "Zidane gets all the praise but I carry this team (Juventus)".
He's not likely to say it is he, even though it's true.
>player has a lot of respect for him and therefore they try to prevent him
>to create gameplay as much as they can.
If you think he's ineffective because he gets marked tightly you haven't
seen much of Juve the past two years. Totti, Rui Costa and Boban get
marked tightly as well, it doesn't effect their game.
>He's probably not Pele but he's actually one of the best players of all
>time,
He's not even close.
>if players in the whole world admit it why don't you ?
Because he isn't.
Laurent Bollini
> >I believe Serie A players know Zidane better than you, and EVERY Italian
>
> How often do players criticise each other? I can't recall Del Piero ever
> saying "Zidane gets all the praise but I carry this team (Juventus)".
> He's not likely to say it is he, even though it's true.
>
You should have listen also what the Italian press said about Zidane before the
match : he's even more praised than in France, I don't think this is because
he's just an average player.
>
> >player has a lot of respect for him and therefore they try to prevent him
> >to create gameplay as much as they can.
>
> If you think he's ineffective because he gets marked tightly you haven't
> seen much of Juve the past two years. Totti, Rui Costa and Boban get
> marked tightly as well, it doesn't effect their game.
>
Did you see Totti during the final ? This guy is highly overrated.
He was simply non-existent, without having been especially watched for.
So I don't think the comparison is relevant.
Rui Costa is actually great, I admit, like all the current portuguese
generation.
>
> >He's probably not Pele but he's actually one of the best players of all
> >time,
>
> He's not even close.
You admitted he's constantly watched by Italian defences in Serie A, explain me
why if he's crap ? Don't you think there is a contradiction ?
Djamel Boudjerda
Benny <Be...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Subject : Euro 2000 Final
> > From : Laurent Bollini <l-bo...@ti.com>
>
>
> How often do players criticise each other? I can't recall Del Piero ever
> saying "Zidane gets all the praise but I carry this team (Juventus)".
> He's not likely to say it is he, even though it's true.
>
Del Piero, I am afraid, lost it over two years ago. And to compare him
to Zidane is like comparing cheap plonk to champagne!!!
Zidane is certainly the best palyer in the world and there is no one who
comes even close to him. And what's more he is a great person with it, and
couldn't even care less if guys like you think he is the best or not. After
the match against Portugal he went and spoke to Figo and let him know that
Portugal deserved to go through to the final as much as France. Also, after
the final, he went and had a chat with Del Piero to try and comfort him.
That's a hallmark of great sportsman!
>
> >He's probably not Pele but he's actually one of the best players of all
> >time,
>
> He's not even close.
>
> >if players in the whole world admit it why don't you ?
>
> Because he isn't.
Your opinion doesn't matter, but I sympathise with you, it must have been
agonising for you to watch him play some beautiful football and then listen
to the commentators go on and on and on... about how simply brilliant he was!
Zidane is already crowned Player of the tournament at Euro2000. FIFA will
certainly crown him World Player of the year for the 2nd time. He will
certainly deserve it.
imho...@optushome.com.au
Non existant. Although Del Piero missed two sitters. But thats
football, and life.
Del Piero at Juventus has been a legend, and has won everything you can win
at the club level.
He has yet to peak at the international level. His time will come.
He is one of the few best players in the world. A simple fact.
in article 8jutrm$6o1$1...@ftel.ftel.co.uk, Djamel Boudjerda at
imho...@optushome.com.au
referees back is not an accident.
France should have been down to 9 men by the 50th minute of play.
They were fortunate.
Btw, fuck you too, asshole.
in article 3961D359...@ti.com, Laurent Bollini at l-bo...@ti.com
wrote on 04/07/2000 03:54 AM:
> imho...@optushome.com.au wrote:
>
>> You are a clown.
>
> You know what you're talking about...
>
>
>>
>>
>
>>
>> And
>> Trezeguet for coming in studs up into Toldos head?
>>
>
> It was an A-C-C-I-D-E-N-T ! Trezeguet is not stupid, he didn't meant
> to broke Toldo's nose, this was obvious for the referee and for everyone but
> you.
>
>
>>
>> You are a jack ass.
>>
>
> Fuck you, loser.
>
>>
>> Fair is fair.
>>
>
> Don't talk about what you ignore.
>
>>
>> France won, because they played better from the start of the tournament
>> right to the end. But Italy were better in the final.
>
> Italy was good but less good than France, if not they would have won. Period.
>
>
>>
>> This is football. Luck is always a factor. Italy had luck against Holland.
>> France had luck against Italy.
>>
>
> France has no luck, are you a moron ? They scored normally in the injury
> time, where's the lucky part in this ??
>
>>
>> Over a billion people saw this on TV. What were you watching? Wimbledon??
>
Laurent Bollini
> Non existant. Although Del Piero missed two sitters. But thats
> football, and life.
>
> Del Piero at Juventus has been a legend, and has won everything you can win
> at the club level.
> He has yet to peak at the international level. His time will come.
>
> He is one of the few best players in the world. A simple fact.
>
Zidane did not play as well in the final as in the others matches, but he's been
anyway far better than Totti or Del Piero who spent his time on the ground.
Del Piero has actually been a great player but his time is over now, he's fat and
slow.
Djamel Boudjerda
Benny <Be...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> He does not create chance after chance and even taking into account
> Inzaghi's misses how did Del Piero end up with 15 assists and Zidane
> only 1?
Simple. Zidane's openings are so clever, Inzaghi is too slow to react and so
he misses them. And that's a fact.
_**arma**_
> He's probably not Pele but he's actually one of the best players of all
time,
> if players in the whole world admit it why don't you ?
...sorry, not "one of", but THE best!
Prima di parlare di Zidane, lavarsi la bocca!
--
cheers,
_**daygo*ARMA*porthos**_
...allenatore della SUPIF O.B.
Campione Europeo di Fantacalcio Pro sul sito http://mjjl.cjb.net
HOME PAGE: http://members.xoom.it/armagio
TIFOSI DEL BRESCIA: E' NATO
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Djamel Boudjerda
Claudio Mantelli <claudio.mantelli.SPAMMERSF*C...@tin.it> wrote:
> On 4 Jul 2000 08:14:17 GMT, D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk (Djamel Boudjerda)
> wrote:
>
> >Platini has a dig at everybody in the French team - you know why?
> >Because this team has succeeded where he and his team failed.
>
> This France is stronger than Platini's.
The competition as whole is also much stronger.
>
> >He is
> >envious of Zidane's achievements. And also he wants to remain THE
> >FRENCH legend.
>
> He is. Zizou is a great player, but Platini was absolutely better.
>
Platini was one of the greatest, I never suggested otherwise. However, a bit
of humility would have made even greater. It's foolish and stupid to compare
players from different eras. The game/tactics change, the level of competition
changes, etc, etc, etc... Platini was one of the greatest of his era. And I
am sure, Zidane will be remembered as the greatest of his era. From what I
remeber of Platini - as great as he was - France might have enjoyed more
success if he didn't go for glory as often as he did. Whereas Zidane plays
his heart out for the team. He is brilliant solo, and even better as a team
player. Point final!
Benny
>before the match : he's even more praised than in France, I don't think
>this is because he's just an average player.
He's not average but he's not THAT good either. Also the Italian press
praise Albertini so I wouldn't read too much into what they say.
>Did you see Totti during the final ? This guy is highly overrated.
>He was simply non-existent, without having been especially watched for.
>So I don't think the comparison is relevant.
His back heel led to the first goal and he also gave Del Piero his first
un-missable chance. Non-existent?
>You admitted he's constantly watched by Italian defences in Serie A,
>explain me why if he's crap ? Don't you think there is a contradiction?
I didn't say he was crap I said he's vastly over-rated.
> Subject : Euro 2000 Final
> From : Djamel Boudjerda <D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk>
>Zidane is already crowned Player of the tournament at Euro2000. FIFA will
Yes he was player of the tournament despite that fact that Henry won
more man of the match awards. Explain that one.
> Subject : Euro 2000 Final
> From : Djamel Boudjerda <D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk>
>Simple. Zidane's openings are so clever, Inzaghi is too slow to react
>and so he misses them. And that's a fact.
So Zidane's opening are so clever and that's why he has only one assist
yet Del Piero's openings are so stupid, that's why he has fifteen. Give
me stupid over clever anyday of the week.
Jonathan
best.
J.
"Benny" <Be...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lq4gzFBf...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk...
Laurent Bollini
> He's not average but he's not THAT good either. Also the Italian press
> praise Albertini so I wouldn't read too much into what they say.
>
What do you have against Albertini : it's precisely thanks to him if Zidane
has not been as good as before !
>
> >Did you see Totti during the final ? This guy is highly overrated.
> >He was simply non-existent, without having been especially watched for.
> >So I don't think the comparison is relevant.
>
> His back heel led to the first goal and he also gave Del Piero his first
> un-missable chance. Non-existent?
>
His back heel leds to nothing : if Lizarazu had covered properly Pessotto
instead of going forward, nothing would have happened. Liza made
an unusual huge defensive mistake. Therefore, his work is non-existent.
Aqua Di Gio
Laurent Bollini <l-bo...@ti.com> wrote in message
news:3962D8BB...@ti.com...
> Did you see Totti during the final ?
Yeah, he was the one who's back heel fooled all the French defenders and set
up the first and best goal of the game by Delvecchio!!
>This guy is highly overrated.
> He was simply non-existent,
Its a good thing the French defenders thought he was non-existant when he
fooled them all with that back heel to Pessotto who crossed it to
Delvecchio!
>without having been especially watched for.
Yeah, good thing he wasn't watch on that play either!
> So I don't think the comparison is relevant.
> Rui Costa is actually great, I admit, like all the current portuguese
> generation.
Totti is a superb talent. I think he will only get better. Im glad he was on
the team, he made us proud unlike Del Piero who can't bring his Juventino
form to the National Team!
Aqua
Aqua Di Gio
Djamel Boudjerda <D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk> wrote in message
> Zidane is certainly the best palyer in the world and there is no one who
> comes even close to him.
He is one of the best, but lets not get carried away. He ain't a Maradonna.
There certainly are player who are just as good as him.
>Also, after
> the final, he went and had a chat with Del Piero to try and comfort him.
> That's a hallmark of great sportsman!
Why not? They're team mates for godsake. Del Piero did the same for Davids
after they beat Holland.
Unlike that Arrogant French Bitch Barthez.
Aqua Di Gio
<imho...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:B5893672.285F%imho...@optushome.com.au...
> Where was Zidane in the Final? The same place Del Piero was.
> Non existant. Although Del Piero missed two sitters. But thats
> football, and life.
>
> Del Piero at Juventus has been a legend, and has won everything you can
win
> at the club level.
> He has yet to peak at the international level. His time will come.
>
IMO Del Piero better begin proving himself in these next set of WC
qualifiers. Because Im not so sure I would be happy seeing him start for
Italy in the next World Cup, in light of players like Totti, Montella,
Vieri, etc. That next cup better be his coming out party, or else he's
done...and Im being lenient, he already had two major tournaments to prove
himself and failed miserably.
Those two missed chances are just unforgivable. Surely if he buried just one
France was done.
> He is one of the few best players in the world. A simple fact.
He can begin to prove it sometime soon at the International Level!
Aqua
Aqua Di Gio
> > Where was Zidane in the Final? The same place Del Piero was.
> > Non existant. Although Del Piero missed two sitters. But thats
> > football, and life.
> >
> > Del Piero at Juventus has been a legend, and has won everything you can
win
> > at the club level.
> > He has yet to peak at the international level. His time will come.
> >
> >
>
he's been
> anyway far better than Totti or Del Piero who spent his time on the
ground.
> Del Piero has actually been a great player but his time is over now, he's
fat and
> slow.
Laurent, not only are you arrogant (to be expected) but you are an idiot to
boot. Del Piero is 26, how old is Zidane? Totti fooled the whole French
defence and led to the first goal with his deft backheel to Pessotto. Even
Pessotto wasn't expecting it. Totti had moments like that for most of the
match, but inconsistencies like Del Piero's miss failed to highlight Tottis
accomplishments. He scored 2 goals and had 2 assists. Unlike Zidane who's
2nd goal came on the spot. Zidane has been great until the final, where he
was non-existant. Totti on the other hand was one of the players of the
match!
Don't get carried away Laurent. Italy lost that game, France didn't win it!
Aqua Di Gio
You are an idiot. How you can rationalize this is amazing.
>if Lizarazu had covered properly Pessotto
> instead of going forward, nothing would have happened.
Using your (ill)logic I can say this:
If Albertini had not have made a lazy attempt at clearing, no France winning
goal would have happened. If Maldini's legs were closed when Wiltord passed
to Trezeguet, nothing would have happened...therefore Trezeguets goal sucks.
What kind of bullshit is that?
> Liza made
> an unusual huge defensive mistake. Therefore, his work is non-existent.
No he didn't. Lazyrazu was stunned just like the rest of the defence, and
Totti knew exactly where he was placing the ball. It was an amazing pass,
only a fool and poor winner of your stature would criticize it.
Claudio Mantelli
<anderst@_NO_UCE_OR_SPAM_algonet.se> wrote:
>Aqua has proven to be really pathetic over the last days. At least Claudio
>has some dignity left in his state of shock over the loss in the final.
Be it Inter F.C. or Italy, I honestly tell what I see.
If I say Inter sucked in the final minutes of too many matches this
year, or that Inzaghi dived against Turkey, I would like to have the
same credit when I say that there was a penalty on Ronaldo in the
famous match at Delle Alpi, or that Italy played better against
France.
Benny
>has not been as good as before !
Albertini has stunk up Milan's midfield for the past 6 years. It was ok
when he was being carried by Rijkaard and then Desailly but now he's
being carried by Ambrosini who is a great talent but not good enough to
carry Albertini just yet. Albertini rarely scores, rarely makes assists
and does not make tackles in midfield despite what the media tell you.
>His back heel leds to nothing : if Lizarazu had covered properly Pessotto
>instead of going forward, nothing would have happened. Liza made
>an unusual huge defensive mistake. Therefore, his work is non-existent.
If Cannavaro didn't head the ball to Wiltord France wouldn't have
equalised and if Albertini had tackled Pires France wouldn't have scored
the winner and if Raul had converted the penalty France may not have
made the final and if etc, etc, etc. If Zidane had made the back heel
everyone would be comparing him to Maradona or Pele but Totti did it so
it's ignored. Week in week out Totti is far better than Zidane.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Renaud Dreyer
Arrogant? Like the Italian bench which was jeering and taunting the
French players on the field during injury time? I hope they learned
a good lesson.
Fortunately, Thierry informed them after Wiltord's goal that they
could sit down and rest.
Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Djamel Boudjerda
Aqua Di Gio <Aq...@home.com> wrote:
>
> Djamel Boudjerda <D.Bou...@ftel.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> > Zidane is certainly the best palyer in the world and there is no one who
> > comes even close to him.
>
> He is one of the best, but lets not get carried away. He ain't a Maradonna.
> There certainly are player who are just as good as him.
>
> >Also, after
> > the final, he went and had a chat with Del Piero to try and comfort him.
> > That's a hallmark of great sportsman!
>
> Why not? They're team mates for godsake. Del Piero did the same for Davids
> after they beat Holland.
>
He also went and had a comforting word with Figo after the golden penalty, and
actually told him that Portugal deserved to be in the final as much as France
did. I am sure i've already said this :). As far as I know Figo and Zidane
have never team mates.
Doan Nguyen
> > So I don't think the comparison is relevant.
> > Rui Costa is actually great, I admit, like all the current portuguese
> > generation.
>
> Totti is a superb talent. I think he will only get better. Im glad he was on
> the team, he made us proud unlike Del Piero who can't bring his Juventino
> form to the National Team!
You been watching Juve recently ?
Del Piero *did* bring his current Juve form into the National side !
Doan
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
>Did you see Totti during the final ? This guy is highly overrated.
>He was simply non-existent, without having been especially watched for.
>So I don't think the comparison is relevant.
If Totti was not existent in the final, then Zidane never left the
locker room.
I agree Zidane is a better player than Totti nowadays, but not on
sunday.
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
>Del Piero, I am afraid, lost it over two years ago. And to compare him
>to Zidane is like comparing cheap plonk to champagne!!!
Del Piero of the past 2 seasons, unfortunately, yes.
>Zidane is certainly the best palyer in the world and there is no one who
>comes even close to him.
No, sorry. Zidane lacks one thing to be definetely one of the best
ever: continuity.
Of course nobody can play wonderfully every match, but when Zizou is
not fit he really disappears from the pitch.
>And what's more he is a great person with it, and
>couldn't even care less if guys like you think he is the best or not. After
>the match against Portugal he went and spoke to Figo and let him know that
>Portugal deserved to go through to the final as much as France. Also, after
>the final, he went and had a chat with Del Piero to try and comfort him.
>That's a hallmark of great sportsman!
Nobody denied he's a great sportman.
>Your opinion doesn't matter, but I sympathise with you, it must have been
>agonising for you to watch him play some beautiful football and then listen
>to the commentators go on and on and on... about how simply brilliant he was!
>Zidane is already crowned Player of the tournament at Euro2000. FIFA will
>certainly crown him World Player of the year for the 2nd time. He will
>certainly deserve it.
Probably, but he sure didn't show it in the final.
And, imo, this year nodoby is playing greatly, the one that will
emerge will do it because the other ones drowned (Del Piero, Raul,
Ronaldo...)
Laurent Bollini
> >comes even close to him.
>
> No, sorry. Zidane lacks one thing to be definetely one of the best
> ever: continuity.
> Of course nobody can play wonderfully every match, but when Zizou is
> not fit he really disappears from the pitch.
>
But Claudio if you remember the game of Platini, who you will for sure
consider as actually one of the best, he was not what we can call a physical
player, and also could completely disappear of a match if he was assigned
a watchdog, unlike Pele or Maradonna who had enough technical tricks
to handle their direct opponent. I mean, even in the case of Platini you
cannot talk about continuity.
What made the legend of Platini was his ability to score. He's been several
times best scorer when he was in Italy and also scored many goals during the
Euro.
Zidane, it's true, is not a great scorer, but like Platini he has like a sort of
magic influence
on his teammates, added to his incredible sense of game and passing,
and to his ability to mystify one or two defenders on a dribble often
decided of the result.
I'll add that there is a big difference between the team of 1984 and the one of
2000 : Platini was essential to his team, without him they were lost.
In fact the team is much more powerful now than in 1984, and even more
powerful when Zidane leads his mates. So the difference of level is less obvious
now than before between the team and its leader.
It's even more difficult to distinguish yourself in a team of stars.
Dougie Mckinnon
Laurent Bollini wrote:
> >
> > >Did you see Totti during the final ? This guy is highly overrated.
> > >He was simply non-existent, without having been especially watched for.
> > >So I don't think the comparison is relevant.
> >
> > His back heel led to the first goal and he also gave Del Piero his first
> > un-missable chance. Non-existent?
> >
>
> His back heel leds to nothing : if Lizarazu had covered properly Pessotto
> instead of going forward, nothing would have happened. Liza made
> an unusual huge defensive mistake. Therefore, his work is non-existent.
You're seriously saying that Totti's back-heel had no bearing on the course of
the final?
Brian Earp
Great back heel, but if I were Zoff, I'd be furious at him for staying offside in
the 91st minute. The free kick led to France's equaliser.
Laurent Bollini
> > instead of going forward, nothing would have happened. Liza made
> > an unusual huge defensive mistake. Therefore, his work is non-existent.
>
> You're seriously saying that Totti's back-heel had no bearing on the course of
> the final?
Do Italian people who say that french players, and especially Desailly, made many
bad faults, are serious ?
In that case I think we didn't see the same match : Desailly was awesome, and
Del Vecchio , when he fell near the box along with Desailly made a nearly
perfect simulation, if you see it from behind the players :
but taken from the opposite view, as desailly perfectly
cut his trajectory and physically but correctly took the advantage, he caught
Desailly's arm with his own arm and put his leg across Desailly'one.
Fortunately the referee has been really good on this one.
These clowns talk about Desailly elbow, did they already forget
what happened to Dugarry ? How do you call what he took in the head from
an Italian "defender" ?
Could someone tell me how the Italian back stops the shot
of Lizarazu ? With the shoulder, last time I saw the rules it was forbidden.
Could someone else explain me how Henry has been stopped by Canavarro ?
Is it of common use to lay on the ground across the opponent's feet ?
Do I really need to go on ?
So, no, I'm not serious about Totti, he made a pass full of opportunism though
he's been greatly helped by Liza childish mistake, but there are many people here
who think there are serious while there are stupid.
France deserved victory, Italy made one of his usual matches, made of
simulations,
faults (see stats) and defence (see time in opponent's half).
-4191
>On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 22:05:34 +0200, Anders Thelemyr
><anderst@_NO_UCE_OR_SPAM_algonet.se> wrote:
>>Aqua has proven to be really pathetic over the last days. At least Claudio
>>has some dignity left in his state of shock over the loss in the final.
>Be it Inter F.C. or Italy, I honestly tell what I see.
>If I say Inter sucked in the final minutes of too many matches this
>year, or that Inzaghi dived against Turkey,
I still think that it was not a dive, unless you take a very broad definition
of the concept "diving".
> I would like to have the
>same credit when I say that there was a penalty on Ronaldo in the
>famous match at Delle Alpi,
There was a penalty, but the mistake was not as outrageous
as many people make it out to be. Blame it on Ronaldo's lightning
speed, or on Iuliano's slowness. If Iuliano had been perfectly still
when Ronaldo ran into him, it would have been the correct call.
As it happens, Iuliano did move, but it was not at all
easy to see from the naked eye.
> or that Italy played better against
>France.
Maybe we played slightly better, but overall
it was a very close match and could have gone either way.
I don't think that 1-1 at the end of 90 (...oops, 94) minutes was
an unfair result.
And by the way, I don't think it makes much sense to
whine about the 4 minutes of injury time. Referees always add
an extra minute, regardless of whether there were injuries or
not. The sad truth is that we lost because Cannavaro missed
a clearance, and Del Piero missed two huge chances to close the
game.
Daniele
>Claudio Mantelli
>Remove SPAMMERSF*CK from my email address to reply
--
Daniele Paserman
e-mail: dpas...@kuznets.harvard.edu
mdpa...@fas.harvard.edu
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
>Platini was one of the greatest, I never suggested otherwise. However, a bit
>of humility would have made even greater. It's foolish and stupid to compare
>players from different eras.
>The game/tactics change, the level of competition
>changes, etc, etc, etc... Platini was one of the greatest of his era. And I
>am sure, Zidane will be remembered as the greatest of his era. From what I
>remeber of Platini - as great as he was - France might have enjoyed more
>success if he didn't go for glory as often as he did. Whereas Zidane plays
>his heart out for the team. He is brilliant solo, and even better as a team
>player. Point final!
What you say about France is true, but imo the overall skill of this
team is better than France in the mid 80s.
On the other hand, Platini was a star in a very strong Juventus.
Comparisons are difficult, but since Del Piero disappeared in 1998,
Juventus hasn't won anything. Zidane maybe technically great, but
differently from Platini he doesn't have the strenght to carry the
team; on the opposite, his worst defect is disappearing from the pitch
from time to time.
Aqua Di Gio
Benny wrote in message ...
>> Subject : Euro 2000 Final
>> From : Aqua Di Gio <aq...@home.com>
>
>>Neither were fouls, or close to the elbows and shots to the back of the
>>head that Ambrosini took from Desailly and Blanc. Both tretcherous
>>plays!
>
>Ambrosini can take it, he's a rock.
I don't doubt it, I look forward to seeing him in WC qualifiers. However, I
think the point that was made was how France didn't play dirty, when in fact
they had many fouls committed not called against them.
Aqua Di Gio
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <3961DBAC...@ti.com>...
>>
>> France deserved to win, Laurent, I never said otherwise.
>
>> I merely said, that
>> Italy was the better team.
>
>What a contradiction ! How could a team deserved to win if it's less good ?
Thats not a contradiction by any means. I think you were one of the ones
arguing that Holland was better than Italy, yet Italy went through to the
final didn't they? Regardless of your criteria for better team, it is well
known that the better team doesn't always win, the winner is by default the
best team due to becoming champs, but on that day France was not the better
team.
>I think you're really a moron :
>all you say is leaded by only one thing : you cannot fairly accept that
your
>team has been defeated by a BETTER team than yours.
Italy was defeated, I said that already. But I don't concede that France
played the better football, simply put...they did not.
>Give me only ONE fair argument to explain why your team did not
>deserve to loose.
Its not a matter of deserving to loose or not. I said, simply, Italy was the
better team, and only due to shitty finishing by (choke choke) Del Piero did
France
have the opportunity to get back into the game, and full credit to them for
doing so. France is a worth champion, I know you have read that I have said
that already. Im happy France won it, and not some other undeserving team
like England or Germany or Sweden for example, but back to my point - on
that day Italy was better.
>You just insist on faults commited by Desailly and
>Zidane like if this should explain everything ?
How did I say it explained anything? It didn't...they did commit fouls
though, specifically Desailly's elbow to Ambrosini and even Thurams to
Totti. Are you arguing that elbows to the head aren't a foul because D. Or
Zidane committed them? This is quite stupid if you ask anyone.
>Are you an accountant ? Do you REALLY want to count the number of
>faults commited by the two teams ? I hope for you not, you're ridiculous
>enough.
Get over it. Quit being a baby.
>Stop being negative and try to give me positive arguments to explain
>why Italy has been better, I'm curious to hear it.
Better attacking opportunities...2 from Del Piero which should have put
France on Ice. Nicer goal. Better organization. Played more as a team until
the extra time when France clearly had the momentum.
>IMHO, as EVERY match stat is in favour of France you cannot even
>think about not deserving to loose.
Italy was better, deal with it. I already have.
>> Pick up any newspaper and you WILL read the same.
>This is simply : wrong ! Read at some of the news posted on english forums
>and you'll see that opinions, like everywhere except probably in Italy,
>are shared.
Nope. I did read some non-Italian papers, and even Italian critics agree
that the better team lost that day.
>> I also said the negative tactics work both ways, but your proud arrogant
ass
>> can't admit that Desailly elbowed an Italian, blatanlty, TWO times as
well
>> as Thuram, and your precious Zidane walked over Albertini in the dying
>> minutes.
>Ooooh pooor Italians players I'm really sad about it, it's true that they
>never,
what contempt...
>never commited any fault themselves. They just got what they deserved,
IMHO.
What goes around comes around. When do you think France will suffer such a
fate?
>I 'll add that Desailly's elbow was provoked by the fact that he got rid to
be
>constantly pushed and pulled himself.
Oh yes what a saint. What bullshit...trying to justify a foul. Don't you
have an remorse?
>Unfortunately, he can't control well
>his nerves and should have been yellow carded.
Red
>Could you explain me why Italy wear so tight shirts ?
Ask Kappa, they designed them.
>To avoid being pulled ?
Yes it must be an UEFA inspired conspiracy, including Kappa and the FIGC.
>Actually these guys know what could happened to them, to have experienced
it
>all the time on the other side !
Are you always this paranoid?
>> Italy had a right to celebrate, it was almost over, and should have been.
>Fucking illusion. You're actually stupid. A match is over when the referee
>decides it.
Not as stupid as you want to be. Of course the match was over when the ref
called it. Lucky he gave France those extra minutes huh? Irregardless, it
was only Italy's
fault for not putting it away when they had the chance to bury France. Those
missed golden opportunities proved to come back and haunt them.
>> Toldo played awesome in this years Italian championships and Champions
>> league, and was regarded as best keeper in the tournament.
>Yes he's actually a good keeper, but if you had seen the matches of France
>during
>the Tournament, what you obviously didn't do, you'll see that he saves his
>team several times and as a consequence is absolutely not overrated.
Are you talking about Barthez? If so, I never said he was overrated. How did
you pull that one out of your ass?
>> Zidane may be at the next tournament, he isn't old, and I never said he
was.
>> I said he is at the top of his game...he WON'T get better, even Platini
has
>> the common sense to admit Zidane is not in the same class as himself or a
>> Maradonna. Don't let it get to your head.
>Platini is just envious about Zidane who made what he couldn't do in
several
>attempts :
>winning the world cup. So you're also naive ?
Platini is much better than Zidane, who is probably the best player in the
world at the moment - no doubt.
>And yes, Maradona is actually one of the best players of all times, LIKE
>Zidane.
Unlike Zidane and in a class much higher than him. You are suffering from a
dellusion.
>> You won the WC because you were the best team, but you couldn't beat
Italy.
>Now it's done :-D
Yeah, you got lucky...don't we all?
>If I have a doubt about one team it should be Holland as we avoid them
during
>the wc and loose to them with our substitutes, but surely not Italy !
Yeah Holland did beat France, its true.
>> You barely won this game, and didn't deserve to.
>Bad bad bad loser.
Yeah, I even beat up a French supporter after the game. LOL ;-P
>> You are WC and EC champions and have a solid team, regardless of being
>> outplayed in this final.
>Outplayed ? Buy glasses ! Once more, read the stats !
Italy was better.
>> Next time we won't be so nice...we'll put in Vieri
>> who will have no problem burying those chances that "choke" Del Piero
>> missed.
>Next time, we'll put Petit instead of Deschamps who'll have no problem
>to stop Vieri...if the latter don't let him fall on the ground of course !
Isn't Petit that Porno Star wanna be? ;-P
>Regards,
>Laurent
likewise,
Aqua
PS - You must have a rough life with an Italian surname and a French first
one, huh?
Aqua Di Gio
Oh Sven, don't be so upset that I think Sweden sucks a monkey's ass.
Anders Thelemyr wrote in message ...
>Laurent Bollini <l-bo...@ti.com> said:
>
>>What a contradiction ! How could a team deserved to win if it's less good
?
>>I think you're really a moron :
>>all you say is leaded by only one thing : you cannot fairly accept that
your
>>team has been defeated by a BETTER team than yours.
>
>Aqua has proven to be really pathetic over the last days. At least Claudio
>has some dignity left in his state of shock over the loss in the final.
>
>--
>@
Aqua Di Gio
Anders Thelemyr wrote in message ...
Depends what criteria or illogic you use. But on that day Italy was better.
Aqua Di Gio
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <3961D422...@ti.com>...
>> cuca...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8jsa74$30g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>> >
>> >> Desailly and Blanc were simply far better and did a great match,
>> >> unlike Canavarro and Nesta
>>
>> >If you think this you don't understand even the basics of football. So
>> >why do you post in this forum ?
>>
>> It boils down to ignorance and pride.
>>
>
>Here again you know what you're talking about : if you're not arrogant and
>
>pride, why don't you accept the deserved defeat of your team ?
>
I have accepted the defeat. My life has gone on. But I still say Italy was
better. Why does that bother you? You want me to admit something that isn't
true?
Aqua Di Gio
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <3961F092...@ti.com>...
>Roge wrote:
>
>> Bloody Hell !
>> Why don't you French and Italian fans just appreciate what a f'king
superb
>> footballing spectacle your teams gave the rest of the world and get over
your
>> petty childish rantings. You've both got excellent teams full of guts and
>> flair. You have players in every position who can do their job and then
some
>> more, managers who have a footballing brain and fans who aren't
arseholes.
>> Thank God you're not England fans.
>>
>
>Roge, you're right.
>I'm tired of reading insults and answering the same, I'm tired of all this.
>Before reading some posts here I thought this has been a great match,
>that both teams were good and that the best won.
>But I got too angry to read unfair statements and couldn't control myself,
so I
>apologize.
>
>Aqua Di Gio, I'm sorry to have insulted you, I shouldn't have done this,
>I don't want to become a Hooligan or any other kind of fanatic.
Appology accepted. No worries mate, Im not upset at the insults. Lets play
again sometime soon, I enjoyed the match and great spectacle they put on.
Please disregard any other comments made.
>I sincerely thinks that Italy played well, though I keep thinking that the
best
>team won.
>We shouldn't forget that after all it's just a game...
>Thanks again Roge.
I still think Italy was better, and I am free to that opinion. France is a
worthy champion.
Until we meet again!
Aqua
Aqua Di Gio
Anders Thelemyr wrote in message
<80h4ms4coi8gnqtra...@4ax.com>...
>claudio.mantelli.SPAMMERSF*C...@tin.it (Claudio Mantelli) said:
>
>>Of course, that's what always happens, luck never plays a part in
>>victories...maybe just when Italy wins...
>
>The last days we have learnt that the opposite is held to be true among
>some Italian "fans". "When Italy wins it's never luck"...
Except against the Mighty Swedes....LOL
Per Samuelsson
Aqua Di Gio wrote:
>>If we shouldn't worry about what Pele thinks, than why the hell should we
>>worry about what someone like you,
>
>Who said you should, dipshit? You're the one following me around and
>responding to my messages, which shows you have some interest in what I
say.
>Otherwise, go fuck a cow for all I care. Your opinions are laughable at
>best.
That was a brilliant, intelligent answer, Aqua. It seems like you really
believe that anyone in the whole world (besides yourself) values your
opinions on football higher than Pele's.
Have fun doing so...
Claudio Mantelli
wrote:
>Zidane did not play as well in the final as in the others matches, but he's been
>anyway far better than Totti
Are you joking? Zidane didn't have enough space to ever be dangerous.
Zidane was the player of the tournamnet, Totti the man of the match
(and that not only imo, also Cruyiff and many other said that)
>or Del Piero who spent his time on the ground.
>Del Piero has actually been a great player but his time is over now, he's fat and
>slow.
Nobody ever said Del Piero was better than Zidane. Everydoby pointed
out that Alex has been the worst player on the pitch.
Claudio Mantelli
<rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Arrogant? Like the Italian bench which was jeering and taunting the
>French players on the field during injury time? I hope they learned
>a good lesson.
> Fortunately, Thierry informed them after Wiltord's goal that they
>could sit down and rest.
Please, celebrating before the end of a match is so common that
anybody can hardly get offended.
That it brings bad luck, that's another point...
Renaud Dreyer
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 02:37:32 GMT, Renaud Dreyer
> <rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> > Arrogant? Like the Italian bench which was jeering and taunting the
> >French players on the field during injury time? I hope they learned
> >a good lesson.
> > Fortunately, Thierry informed them after Wiltord's goal that they
> >could sit down and rest.
>
> Please, celebrating before the end of a match is so common that
> anybody can hardly get offended.
> That it brings bad luck, that's another point...
There was one camera trained on the French bench during the end of the
98 World Cup final. Despite the fact we were leading 2-0, they
certainly weren't celebrating until after the whistle blew. And they
didn't seem to be making sarcastic comments at the
Brazilians... Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Aqua Di Gio
Per Samuelsson wrote in message ...
>
>Aqua Di Gio wrote:
>
>
>>>If we shouldn't worry about what Pele thinks, than why the hell should we
>>>worry about what someone like you,
>>
>>Who said you should, dipshit? You're the one following me around and
>>responding to my messages, which shows you have some interest in what I
>say.
>>Otherwise, go fuck a cow for all I care. Your opinions are laughable at
>>best.
>
>That was a brilliant, intelligent answer,
There are no standards with which I need to comply with. If I feel like you
are deserving of such a reply, you will get it.
> Aqua. It seems like you really
>believe that anyone in the whole world (besides yourself) values your
>opinions on football higher than Pele's.
>Have fun doing so...
I don't value Pele's opinion, because I don't think he is very intelligent.
Neither does the CSF it seems. You just use his name to reinforce your views
because
you think it will carry more weight. Nope.
Aqua
Aqua Di Gio
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <3964BCEB...@ti.com>...
>> > His back heel leds to nothing : if Lizarazu had covered properly
Pessotto
>> > instead of going forward, nothing would have happened. Liza made
>> > an unusual huge defensive mistake. Therefore, his work is non-existent.
>>
>> You're seriously saying that Totti's back-heel had no bearing on the
course of
>> the final?
>
>Do Italian people who say that french players, and especially Desailly,
made
>many bad faults, are serious ?
If you are inquiring into whether people believe that Desailly's elbow to
Totti's head was a foul or not, YES I am serious and so is everyone else who
saw it.
That could have and maybe should have been punishable by a red card,
regardless of whatever motivation you believe he had!
>These clowns talk about Desailly elbow, did they already forget
>what happened to Dugarry ?
No. But does that mean that Desailly's elbow is no longer a foul? Both
Desailly and Thuram threw blatant elbows, why don't you just be rationale
and admit it. There is nothing you can say to justify them, both were
intentional and dangerous!
>How do you call what he took in the head from
>an Italian "defender" ?
An elbow. See, I can admit it, can you humble yourself and do so?
>Could someone tell me how the Italian back stops the shot
>of Lizarazu ? With the shoulder, last time I saw the rules it was
forbidden.
Nope. Next time you "saw" the rules, maybe you should "read" and interpret
them.
>Could someone else explain me how Henry has been stopped by Canavarro ?
>Is it of common use to lay on the ground across the opponent's feet ?
As long as no foul is committed, there is nothing wrong with it.
>Do I really need to go on ?
Not really, you are making a mountain out of mole hills. Really unneccessary
to be so foolish.
>So, no, I'm not serious about Totti, he made a pass full of opportunism
though
He made a spectacular play that caught all of the French defenders,
specifically Lizarazu off guard. This was brilliant and even Pessotto was
stunned, but managed to get back to the ball and cross it to Delvecchio, who
unlike Del Piero, didn't choke and did well to put it into the back of the
net!
>he's been greatly helped by Liza childish mistake, but there are many
people >here who think there are serious while there are stupid.
I think that your lame excuses are quite childish.
>France deserved victory, Italy made one of his usual matches, made of
>simulations, faults (see stats) and defence (see time in opponent's half).
Stats mean nothing. Every neutral I talked with agree's Italy was better.
Live with it.
Aqua
Aqua Di Gio
><rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Arrogant? Like the Italian bench which was jeering and taunting the
>French players on the field during injury time?
Hardly. They were getting excited, as the match was nearly over. Every team
that is that close to winning a championship will feel the same. But you are
overexaggerating it.
> Fortunately, Thierry informed them after Wiltord's goal that they
>could sit down and rest.
Now that isn't arrogant now is it?
Aqua
Aqua Di Gio
Anders Thelemyr wrote in message ...
>"Aqua Di Gio" <aq...@home.com> said:
>
>>Except against the Mighty Swedes....LOL
>
>Like in 1950 perhaps?
Actually like 2000, when Italy beat Sweden in a no consequence match for us,
but a must win for you.
>What are the head to head stats in the WC between
>Sweden and Italy?
Probably would be really high in Italy's favor.....IF Sweden made it to the
WC on a regular basis, ROTFLMAO!!!!
--
Aqua
------
"If we'd had a kid in England with the talent of Zinedine Zidane, half
of that skill would have been knocked out of him," said Lineker
"The top teams have creative players performing at high pace in a new
modern
game, with good defenders who are comfortable with the ball. All the
players can
really play."
Lineker told the Sun newspaper Tuesday: "That is not the case with
England. Every time our defenders got the ball, it was humped towards
Alan Shearer and Michael Owen. It was out-of-date football. It was 20
years-old. It was a step back to that predictable, long, rushed game of
ours."
Lineker believes it is about time that England started looking to their
Continental neighbours for advice on how develop youth football.
---------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Rhubarb <rh...@noway.jose>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: Happy Endings, welcome back beautiful game.
>Actually, I am a born loser, but I come into this newsgroup to feel good
>about myself, all things being relative.
---------------------------------------
A delusional Swede, perhaps after smoking a joint said:
From: Anders Thelemyr <anderst@_NO_UCE_OR_SPAM_algonet.se>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Sunday, July 02, 2000 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: And someone talked about luck...
>Sweden should have been in the final! We outplayed Italy totally. We should
>have won 7-3 against them!
-----Original Message-----
From: Anders Thelemyr <anderst@_NO_UCE_OR_SPAM_algonet.se>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Sunday, July 09, 2000 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: And someone talked about luck...
{Brazil vs Sweden 1994 Semi-Final}:
Brazil did indeed score 7 goals. They were just not televised and FIFA lost
the
protocol but knew that Brazil had won so they decided on 1-0
Aqua Di Gio
Anders Thelemyr wrote in message ...
>"Aqua Di Gio" <aq...@home.com> said:
>
>>Except against the Mighty Swedes....LOL
>
>Like in 1950 perhaps?
LOL...truly pathetic.
> What are the head to head stats in the WC between
>Sweden and Italy?
and again...
Aqua Di Gio
Anders Thelemyr wrote in message ...
>"Aqua Di Gio" <aq...@home.com> said:
>
>>Probably would be really high in Italy's favor.....IF Sweden made it to
the
>>WC on a regular basis, ROTFLMAO!!!!
>
>Don't run away now, pathetic coward.
Talking to yourself again are ya?
{Schizohrenia}
Do people in general find you...err...*different* by any chance?
--
Aqua
------
>--
>@
Alasdair MacLeod
Everyone could admit that France, Holland and Portugal plays the best
football
in this tournament, as well as Italy I suppose.
If they did not play the best they would have never been the best four teams
this
year. But football is not composed of good players and stats (only
playstation
or PC games have these characters...), sometimes luck or otherwise
misfortune
play a relevant role in a match. Every match is full of fouls blewn by the
ref or
not.
We are just discussing about this single match, not about the tournament and
I think everybody's watched the match could admit that Italy played better
than
France..
Benny <Be...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
Ri+tRYA7...@soccer-europe.fsnet.co.uk...
> 2 JULY 2000
>
> TREZEGUET HERO, DEL PIERO VILLAIN
>
> FRANCE 2-1 ITALY
> Wiltord 94 Delvecchio 55
> Trezeguet 103
>
Renaud Dreyer
> >On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 02:37:32 GMT, Renaud Dreyer
> ><rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> > Arrogant? Like the Italian bench which was jeering and taunting the
> >French players on the field during injury time?
>
> Hardly. They were getting excited, as the match was nearly over. Every team
> that is that close to winning a championship will feel the same. But you are
> overexaggerating it.
I'm not. Italian substitutes where making sarscastic comments to the
French players passing by.
>
> > Fortunately, Thierry informed them after Wiltord's goal that they
> >could sit down and rest.
>
> Now that isn't arrogant now is it?
No. Henry and other players were getting really annoyed by their
behavior and taunts. As we say in France, you shouldn't
sell the skin of the bear before you've actually killed it. Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Aqua Di Gio
Renaud Dreyer wrote in message <8766qfk...@bourbaki.localdomain>...
>"Aqua Di Gio" <aq...@home.com> writes:
>
>> >On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 02:37:32 GMT, Renaud Dreyer
>> ><rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Arrogant? Like the Italian bench which was jeering and taunting the
>> >French players on the field during injury time?
>>
>> Hardly. They were getting excited, as the match was nearly over. Every
team
>> that is that close to winning a championship will feel the same. But you
are
>> overexaggerating it.
>
>I'm not. Italian substitutes where making sarscastic comments to the
>French players passing by.
How the hell do you know? Did you have a microphone next to the Italian
bench. Im sure it was going both ways, don't be so naive to believe all you
hear.
>> > Fortunately, Thierry informed them after Wiltord's goal that they
>> >could sit down and rest.
>> Now that isn't arrogant now is it?
>No. Henry and other players were getting really annoyed by their
>behavior and taunts.
What brought those taunts on (if even there were any)? Are you so naive to
suggest that the French players are the angels in this exchange?
>As we say in France, you shouldn't
>sell the skin of the bear before you've actually killed it. Ciao,
> Renaud Dreyer
What goes around comes around.
Laurent Bollini
Alasdair MacLeod wrote:
> Every match is full of fouls blewn by the
> ref or
> not.
> We are just discussing about this single match, not about the tournament and
> I think everybody's watched the match could admit that Italy played better
> than
> France..
>
two hands of italians players near the box,
an elbow in the head of Dugarry, a shoot in his head,
simulations of DelVecchio,
Henry aggressed many times by Canavarro unable to stop him,
Nesta who do the same on Zidane,
three yellow cards,
and so many others...
yes France also made some faults,
but except one or two fanatics here everybody who red the stats which unlike
your statements
have a real signification, will admit that France couldn't lose this match.
Laurent Bollini
> Totti's head was a foul or not, YES I am serious and so is everyone else who
> saw it.
> That could have and maybe should have been punishable by a red card,
> regardless of whatever motivation you believe he had!
>
and what about the elbow dugarry received : no red card maybe...you have
a selective memory don't you ?
> No. But does that mean that Desailly's elbow is no longer a foul?
Did I say that ? No. So stop listening yourself talking.
>
> >Could someone tell me how the Italian back stops the shot
> >of Lizarazu ? With the shoulder, last time I saw the rules it was
> forbidden.
>
> Nope. Next time you "saw" the rules, maybe you should "read" and interpret
> them.
>
The only possible interpetation is a free kick, like every ball touched with
the arm.
BTW there are two more obvious hands of Italian players during the game.
But if the referee didn't see them, that's part of the game...anyway we proved
to be able to win without this :-)
>
> >Could someone else explain me how Henry has been stopped by Canavarro ?
> >Is it of common use to lay on the ground across the opponent's feet ?
>
> As long as no foul is committed, there is nothing wrong with it.
>
Do you seriously say that the way Canavarro lies at the feet of Henry is not a
fault ??
You really live in a dream.
>
> >Do I really need to go on ?
>
> Not really, you are making a mountain out of mole hills. Really unneccessary
> to be so foolish.
>
And you should really shut your mouth : do you only realize that only your
arrogance
makes you refuse to see the truth ? That you have not a SINGLE argument to
give to explain why Italy was better ?
ALL stats are against your team, you insist on faults but Italy made many more
faults that France,
why can't you admit it ? And fortunately for Italy the referee didn't see the
worst...
>
> Stats mean nothing. Every neutral I talked with agree's Italy was better.
> Live with it.
>
Yes stats mean nothing because they are against your team, isn't it ?
Just an advice, stop annoying us, there are no neutral here, everybody has
his favourite team, even if he's not french or italian, so stop dreaming.
Cheers,
Laurent.
Aqua Di Gio
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <396972B5...@ti.com>...
>> If you are inquiring into whether people believe that Desailly's elbow to
>> Totti's head was a foul or not, YES I am serious and so is everyone else
who
>> saw it.
>> That could have and maybe should have been punishable by a red card,
>> regardless of whatever motivation you believe he had!
>and what about the elbow dugarry received : no red card maybe...you have
>a selective memory don't you ?
Keep reading. I already admitted to it. The point is you are making lame
excuses for the elbows that Desailly and Thuram threw. Why? You know full
well they are
fouls.
>> No. But does that mean that Desailly's elbow is no longer a foul?
>Did I say that ? No. So stop listening yourself talking.
In not so many words you are trying to justify a foul committed by Desailly
because one happened on Dugarry.
>> >Could someone tell me how the Italian back stops the shot
>> >of Lizarazu ? With the shoulder, last time I saw the rules it was
>> forbidden.
>
>> Nope. Next time you "saw" the rules, maybe you should "read" and
interpret
>> them.
>The only possible interpetation is a free kick, like every ball touched
with
>the arm.
Depending on intention.
> >Could someone else explain me how Henry has been stopped by Canavarro ?
> >Is it of common use to lay on the ground across the opponent's feet ?
>> As long as no foul is committed, there is nothing wrong with it.
>Do you seriously say that the way Canavarro lies at the feet of Henry is
not a
>fault ?? You really live in a dream.
Find a rule that says slide tackling is a foul. Really, this is pointless...
>> >Do I really need to go on ?
>>
>> Not really, you are making a mountain out of mole hills. Really
unneccessary
>> to be so foolish.
>And you should really shut your mouth :
If the truth angers you so much, keep living in your dream world then!
>do you only realize that only your
>arrogance makes you refuse to see the truth ?
You shoud be saying this while looking into a mirror. Something you said
about Desailly's elbow being justified because Dugarry received one, seems
to keep haunting my memory.
>That you have not a SINGLE argument to
>give to explain why Italy was better ?
Italy played better, had better and clearer chances on net. Tackled better.
Shut Zidane down easily, and made Henry's runs pretty much ineffective.
No other team in the tournament did this. Italy did, and when they scored
first, they kept attacking. We all know the score should have read at least
2-0, but because of useless Del Piero, France was allowed back into the
game, and made the most out of it. Its plain, simple, and straight to the
point. End of story. Enjoy your titles for at least 2 more years!
>> Stats mean nothing. Every neutral I talked with agree's Italy was better.
>> Live with it.
>Yes stats mean nothing because they are against your team, isn't it ?
Nope. Because I can judge a match based on the performances put forward on
the field. When you watch soccer for another 20 years at least, maybe you
won't
have to resort to useless stats.
>Just an advice, stop annoying us, there are no neutral here, everybody has
>his favourite team, even if he's not french or italian, so stop dreaming.
Sure they do, and stop dreaming, there are neutrals here that know who the
better team was, is, and always will be...No its not France ;-P
>Cheers,
>Laurent.
Ciao,
Aqua
Laurent Bollini
>
> Keep reading. I already admitted to it. The point is you are making lame
> excuses for the elbows that Desailly and Thuram threw. Why? You know full
> well they are
> fouls.
>
Okay, give me ONE message where I say that desailly' elbow is not a fault : it
is actually one,
and deserved at least a yellow card LIKE the Italian guy who did the same on
Dugarry.
Now stop with this because arguing on faults won't lead you far as Italy made
much more
faults than France : once again read the stats, I know this is hard for you
because this
is the proof that your team, while playing well, was inferior to France's one.
>
> >> No. But does that mean that Desailly's elbow is no longer a foul?
>
> >Did I say that ? No. So stop listening yourself talking.
>
> In not so many words you are trying to justify a foul committed by Desailly
> because one happened on Dugarry.
>
I don't justify anything, I say that your only argument is to tend to prove
that
France commited faults and thus was inferior to Italy : I therefore destroy
your argument by showing you that Italy made, at least, as many faults as
France. BTW, in any other aspect of the game, France was better.
> >Do you seriously say that the way Canavarro lies at the feet of Henry is
> not a
>
> >fault ?? You really live in a dream.
>
> Find a rule that says slide tackling is a foul. Really, this is pointless...
>
LOL !! You call this tacking ? You're really a funny guy, this is called
obstruction, an obvious one BTW.
> >That you have not a SINGLE argument to
> >give to explain why Italy was better ?
>
> Italy played better,
Yes this is really a good argument : when will you realize that you have
almost nothing else to say, and therefore that you'll convince no one
here except fanatics like you ?
> had better and clearer chances on net.
Italy had two good opportunities, it's true.
Should I really add that an opportunity not converted is bullshit ?
You Italians often praised your opportunism : one opportunity, one goal.
Well you wasted your chances this day :-D
For the rest, the number of opportunities is once again greater for France.
> Tackled better.
LOL ! You really amusing me, many of what you call "tackles" were fouls
and especially obstructions. The numbers of fouls signaled by the referee
proved it BTW.
>
> Shut Zidane down easily, and made Henry's runs pretty much ineffective.
>
Yes, Zidane has been well controlled by Italian's defense, except that he
once again gave two wonderful passes that surprised the whole Italian defence,
made a free kick that passed over the whole Italian defence once again to
arrive in the feet of Henry who shot on Toldo...BTW there has been so many
opprtunities for France that you can thank Toldo :-D
Finally he made a slalom between the Italian midfield and only a rough and
stupid fault of Nesta stopped him.
About Henry, what you said he's so absurd once again...
He's been a threat all along the match and ridiculizes Canavarro.
> Nope. Because I can judge a match based on the performances put forward on
> the field. When you watch soccer for another 20 years at least, maybe you
> won't
> have to resort to useless stats.
>
My god, now you're trying the age argument ! I'm 31 and watch till I'm 8, do
you have
something else to say :-D
> Sure they do, and stop dreaming, there are neutrals here that know who the
> better team was, is, and always will be...No its not France ;-P
>
Yes and the better team didn't win...how sad :-D
Have nice holidays in your worlds of dreams and frustrations :^)
GO FRANCE ! EUROPEAN AND WORLD CHAMPIONS !
Claudio Mantelli
<rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>There was one camera trained on the French bench during the end of the
>98 World Cup final. Despite the fact we were leading 2-0, they
>certainly weren't celebrating until after the whistle blew.
The fact that it didn't happen once doesn't mean that it doesn't
happen always.
Imo, anyway, players should better shut up and keep their fingers
crossed.
>And they
>didn't seem to be making sarcastic comments at the
>Brazilians... Ciao,
Can you report any sarcastic comment? I doubt there was any, since
most of the french players are or have been italian players'
teammates.
Alasdair MacLeod
Laurent Bollini <l-bo...@ti.com> wrote in message
39696ECD...@ti.com...
>
> yes France also made some faults,
> but except one or two fanatics here everybody who red the stats which
unlike
> your statements
> have a real signification, will admit that France couldn't lose this
match.
>
>
In English Premiership those kind of "fight" are very normal.
If you only would have signification you should admit Italy played better
then
Les Bleus. That's all. Player as Deschamps, or Blanc or Zizou admit that the
game was better played by Azzurri. There is nothing wrong in this....
Only "French fanatics" think different about the game....
French newspaper titled "Champions de l'Universe".... without giving to the
Italian players the right credit about their performance... Sincerely it
sounds a
little nationalist.... :-)
Please, please, tell me why France couldn't lose the match....?
Renaud Dreyer
The Italian becnh players were chanting "Ole Ole" sarcastically everytime a
French player touched the ball. Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Renaud Dreyer
> Please, please, tell me why France couldn't lose the match....?
Because Les Bleus ("B") had already lost against Holland, thus
fullfilling their yearly quota of one loss per year. Sorry. Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Aqua Di Gio
more years. But you can't stand it that Italy played better than them. You
should be
happy that France, despite being outplayed, managed to find a way to win the
match. That is a sign of a great team. But instead you want all others to
concede to your illusions. Go figure...
--
Aqua
------
Laurent Bollini wrote in message <3969959D...@ti.com>...
Claudio Mantelli
<rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> Can you report any sarcastic comment? I doubt there was any, since
>> most of the french players are or have been italian players'
>> teammates.
>
>The Italian becnh players were chanting "Ole Ole" sarcastically everytime a
>French player touched the ball. Ciao,
Hmmm...I kindly doubt about that. They were probably chanting it,
together with italian fans, when italian players passed it.
Honestly, even if somebody could have been so nasty to do it (and I
doubt), they wouldn't have done it with the french players, teammates
and friends of most of our players.
Laurent Bollini
> >
> >The Italian becnh players were chanting "Ole Ole" sarcastically everytime a
> >French player touched the ball. Ciao,
>
> Hmmm...I kindly doubt about that. They were probably chanting it,
> together with italian fans, when italian players passed it.
> Honestly, even if somebody could have been so nasty to do it (and I
> doubt), they wouldn't have done it with the french players, teammates
> and friends of most of our players.
>
> Claudio Mantelli
>
I don't think the italian bench had enough nerves and voice to do it at this
key moment
anyway :-D