Durkin was correct
Ger Scully
Campbell off on Saturday?
The fact is that Sol was the last defender and although he was
incredibly close to making a great tackle, he did take the player and
denied a goal-scoring opportunity. The law says that the player must
go and Durkin explains as much in the article below from Football365.
Now, here we are criticising a referee for doing something right! I
still think Durkin is a twat though.
What's most annoying here is the inconsistencies. If the laws are to
be followed correctly, Dudek should have gone when fouling Freddie,
the Deportivo 'keeper should have followed the same fate and Sol
should have gone when he 'fouled' Laurent Robert at Highbury last
December (I know he got the ball on that occasion, but Poll gave a
penalty).
That said, I do think that particular law should change somewhat. I
believe that if the last defender takes the forward down outside the
box (as Solksjaer did to Robert Lee a few years ago and Keown did to
Owen last season), then he should be sent off and a free-kick given.
If he takes him down inside the box, give a penalty and a yellow-card.
------------------------------------
DURKIN: CAMPBELL RED CARD WILL STAND
Tuesday November 26 2002
Referee Paul Durkin insists he will not reconsider his decision to
send off Arsenal's Sol Campbell at the weekend, claiming he had "no
alternative".
The England defender hauled down Southampton's Agustin Delgado to
concede a penalty during Arsenal's 3-2 defeat at St Mary's Stadium, an
offence Durkin ruled to be a professional foul.
Campbell will now be suspended for Arsenal's trip to Manchester United
in December, but Durkin defended his decision after fierce criticism
from Gunners boss Arsene Wenger.
Durkin told the Daily Mail: "The fact that he was the last defender
meant I had to apply the law, which was that in my opinion he denied
an obvious goalscoring opportunity.
"I had no alternative."
Tony W
"Ger Scully" <gsc...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:10874927.02112...@posting.google.com...
> Am I alone in thinking that Paul Durkin was correct in sending Sol
> Campbell off on Saturday?
>
Durkin applied the rules. As such, you are correct and Sol had to go. But
I don't think anyone has claimed Sol was doing anything other than trying to
get in a fair tackle -- something he missed by bugger all.
But -- as i postulated earlier, what if Sol could have reached the player
outside the box and had the choice of viciously scything him down outside
the box or trying to get a fair tackle in inside the box.
Option 1. Direct free kick and red. Plus, possibly, injured player.
Probability of goal <25%
Option 2A Gets ball, end of problem. (Given that Sol was on the wrong
side of him this was never a high probability).
Option 2B Does not get the ball, foul, penalty, red. Probability of goal
>90%.
On this basis there is no significant disadvantage in terms of punishment to
the defender cutting the forward off at the knees and a significant benefit
to his team in doing so.
The law is an ass in that it encourages foul and unsportsmanlike play.
Ian
> Campbell off on Saturday?
No, I agree.
> The fact is that Sol was the last defender and although he was
> incredibly close to making a great tackle, he did take the player and
> denied a goal-scoring opportunity. The law says that the player must
> go and Durkin explains as much in the article below from Football365.
> Now, here we are criticising a referee for doing something right! I
> still think Durkin is a twat though.
>
> What's most annoying here is the inconsistencies. If the laws are to
And inconsistencies on the pitch and off from officials is what is so
annoying. I'm sick of the FA, The Premier League and the refs.
Gooner_DB10
yes he was th elast defender but so was blanc when he felled marlet...did he
get booked? NO!
same referee too
that is what annoys
"Ger Scully" <gsc...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:10874927.02112...@posting.google.com...
John Porcella
"Gooner_DB10" <contr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uu80u9r...@corp.supernews.com...
> we all know it is the correct call but why the red?
The red card was because it is part of the laws of football.
> yes he was th elast defender but so was blanc when he felled marlet...did
he
> get booked? NO!
I did not see this incident.
--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella
John Porcella
> Campbell off on Saturday?
No, only the ignorant believe anything else.
>
> The fact is that Sol was the last defender and although he was
> incredibly close to making a great tackle, he did take the player and
> denied a goal-scoring opportunity.
Correct.
The law says that the player must
> go and Durkin explains as much in the article below from Football365.
> Now, here we are criticising a referee for doing something right! I
> still think Durkin is a twat though.
>
> What's most annoying here is the inconsistencies. If the laws are to
> be followed correctly, Dudek should have gone when fouling Freddie,
I agree that refs need to be consistent. Was Freddie is a "clear
goalscoring opportunity"?
> the Deportivo 'keeper should have followed the same fate and Sol
> should have gone when he 'fouled' Laurent Robert at Highbury last
> December (I know he got the ball on that occasion, but Poll gave a
> penalty).
>
> That said, I do think that particular law should change somewhat. I
> believe that if the last defender takes the forward down outside the
> box (as Solksjaer did to Robert Lee a few years ago and Keown did to
> Owen last season), then he should be sent off and a free-kick given.
> If he takes him down inside the box, give a penalty and a yellow-card.
What difference does it make where the foul occurs? If the attacker is in a
goalscoring position and is only stopped by an illegal move, then the
harshest punishments need to be used.
>
> ------------------------------------
> DURKIN: CAMPBELL RED CARD WILL STAND
>
> Tuesday November 26 2002
>
> Referee Paul Durkin insists he will not reconsider his decision to
> send off Arsenal's Sol Campbell at the weekend, claiming he had "no
> alternative".
Correct, he did not have an alternative.
>
> The England defender hauled down Southampton's Agustin Delgado to
> concede a penalty during Arsenal's 3-2 defeat at St Mary's Stadium, an
> offence Durkin ruled to be a professional foul.
>
> Campbell will now be suspended for Arsenal's trip to Manchester United
> in December, but Durkin defended his decision after fierce criticism
> from Gunners boss Arsene Wenger.
>
> Durkin told the Daily Mail: "The fact that he was the last defender
> meant I had to apply the law, which was that in my opinion he denied
> an obvious goalscoring opportunity.
>
> "I had no alternative."
Durkin is right.
John Porcella
"Tony W" <awwCU...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:as0cs8$mmleg$2...@ID-161007.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Ger Scully" <gsc...@eircom.net> wrote in message
> news:10874927.02112...@posting.google.com...
> > Am I alone in thinking that Paul Durkin was correct in sending Sol
> > Campbell off on Saturday?
> >
> snip
>
> Durkin applied the rules.
The laws.
As such, you are correct and Sol had to go. But
> I don't think anyone has claimed Sol was doing anything other than trying
to
> get in a fair tackle -- something he missed by bugger all.
That, alas made all the difference and he and Arsenal paid for Cygam's crass
mistakes.
>
> But -- as i postulated earlier, what if Sol could have reached the player
> outside the box and had the choice of viciously scything him down outside
> the box or trying to get a fair tackle in inside the box.
Red card and a free kick only if outside of the box.
>
> Option 1. Direct free kick and red. Plus, possibly, injured player.
> Probability of goal <25%
Remember Willie Young in the Cup Final?
>
> Option 2A Gets ball, end of problem. (Given that Sol was on the wrong
> side of him this was never a high probability).
>
> Option 2B Does not get the ball, foul, penalty, red. Probability of
goal
> >90%.
>
> On this basis there is no significant disadvantage in terms of punishment
to
> the defender cutting the forward off at the knees and a significant
benefit
> to his team in doing so.
>
> The law is an ass in that it encourages foul and unsportsmanlike play.
Hardly, Campbell was sent off condemning the team to playing with a man down
and he will now be suspended! How is that encouragement?
Ian
> I agree that refs need to be consistent. Was Freddie is a "clear
> goalscoring opportunity"?
This newsgroup is plagued by people who can't put a coherent sentence
together.
Ian
>
> "Tony W" <awwCU...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:as0cs8$mmleg$2...@ID-161007.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > "Ger Scully" <gsc...@eircom.net> wrote in message
> > news:10874927.02112...@posting.google.com...
> > > Am I alone in thinking that Paul Durkin was correct in sending Sol
> > > Campbell off on Saturday?
> > >
> > snip
> >
> > Durkin applied the rules.
>
> The laws.
They are called The Laws of the game but semantically they are actually
rules.
Weymel
"John Porcella" <bron...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:as185j$qtg$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > Durkin applied the rules.
>
> The laws.>
The rules, The FA do not have laws, that is why it's the FA rule book, and
not the Fa law book.
Ian
<bron...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>"Gooner_DB10" <contr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:uu80u9r...@corp.supernews.com...
>> we all know it is the correct call but why the red?
>
>The red card was because it is part of the laws of football.
It is part of a law that is ambiguously worded and inconsistently
applied.
>> yes he was th elast defender but so was blanc when he felled marlet...did
>he
>> get booked? NO!
>
>I did not see this incident.
Then your comments on the subject are irrelevant as this is the large
part of the argument.
Durkin lacks the basic intelligence to officiate a football game.
Mattiejay
of different things, including opinion, Beckham scored from the
halfway line a few years back, so should a red be shown everytime he
is fouled in the opposition half? No of course not, the last man law
is like offsides, there is a grey area, because it depends on opinion
made in a split second.
The only way to cut these out is a fifth official with video replays
for all penalty and red card descisions.
Matt.
SA Gooner
"Mattiejay" <Matt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ef2aeda9.02112...@posting.google.com...
Nice idea. Like the fourth official during a rugby or football match. I knwo
there was talk of this a while back, but it was scrapped due to the fact it
would make the game too long with too many breaks. Can we really see a game
being played that resembles an American Football match with all the
stoppages? No, I think the refs need more training, and given more leeway
etc.....
Andy Kelly
news:as2488$n3bp8$1...@ID-134863.news.dfncis.de...
You can download FIFA's LAWS of the game here
http://www.fifa.com/refs/laws_E.html
Or you can view the LAWS of the game at the FA's website
http://www.thefa.com/application?origin=template.jsp&event=bea.portal.framew
ork.internal.refresh&pageid=maximise&pageName=thefa_refereeing&pillar=thefa&
contentId=12111&contentType=1&subContentType=2
Tony W
> The problem is that a "goalscoring opportunity" depends on all sorts
> of different things, including opinion, Beckham scored from the
> halfway line a few years back, so should a red be shown everytime he
> is fouled in the opposition half?
So Forlan can be cut down six inches from the goal line with impunity?
T
:)
SA Gooner
still can't believe they brought in that sort of "quality"!
Weymel
"Andy Kelly" <andy.kel...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:QS3F9.1924$qj1.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
So you do know how to look things up on the net!!!!
However, most people refer to them as laws, but we all know that they cannot
be laws until they have passed through the goverment etc, to become such, if
they WERE laws, then the Police could prosecute every player that has
commited a foul or been caught offside, and as you know, that doesn't
happen, it's like saying " I have to give 24 hours notice at work for a
holiday, it's company law" well it isn't, it's company policy or rules, not
law, nice try though Andy!!!
Ian
Classic.
Andy Kelly
>
> So you do know how to look things up on the net!!!!
>
> However, most people refer to them as laws, but we all know that they cannot
> be laws until they have passed through the goverment etc, to become such, if
> they WERE laws, then the Police could prosecute every player that has
> commited a foul or been caught offside, and as you know, that doesn't
> happen, it's like saying " I have to give 24 hours notice at work for a
> holiday, it's company law" well it isn't, it's company policy or rules, not
> law, nice try though Andy!!!
A law does not have to be passed by government.
Dictionary definition - A rule of conduct or procedure established by
custom, agreement, or authority.
The authority in question being FIFA.
John Porcella
>
> "Andy Kelly" <andy.kel...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:QS3F9.1924$qj1.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> > "Weymel" <wey...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:as2488$n3bp8$1...@ID-134863.news.dfncis.de...
> > >
> > > "John Porcella" <bron...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> > > news:as185j$qtg$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > >
> > > > > Durkin applied the rules.
> > > >
> > > > The laws.>
> > >
> > > The rules, The FA do not have laws, that is why it's the FA rule book,
> and
> > > not the Fa law book.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You can download FIFA's LAWS of the game here
> > http://www.fifa.com/refs/laws_E.html
> >
> > Or you can view the LAWS of the game at the FA's website
> >
>
http://www.thefa.com/application?origin=template.jsp&event=bea.portal.framew
> >
>
ork.internal.refresh&pageid=maximise&pageName=thefa_refereeing&pillar=thefa&
> > contentId=12111&contentType=1&subContentType=2>
>
> So you do know how to look things up on the net!!!!
>
> However, most people refer to them as laws,
They are called such!
but we all know that they cannot
> be laws until they have passed through the goverment etc, to become such,
According to whom? You are confusing the so-called laws of the land with
the laws of the game of association football.
if
> they WERE laws, then the Police could prosecute every player that has
> commited a foul or been caught offside, and as you know, that doesn't
> happen,
The pollice do not have the powe to prosecute anybody...that is the sole job
of the Crown Prosecution Service (ignoring private prosecutions).
it's like saying " I have to give 24 hours notice at work for a
> holiday, it's company law"
It is not like saying such a thing.
well it isn't, it's company policy or rules, not
> law, nice try though Andy!!!
Better than nice, Andy succeeded, unlike you.
John Porcella
"Ian" <ianeh...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ll59uukc2r35iip7b...@4ax.com...
Nonsense. The debate was about Campbell, not Blanc.
>
> Durkin lacks the basic intelligence to officiate a football game.
You do not need academic intelligence, just the sense to apply the laws.
John Porcella
> > The only way to cut these out is a fifth official with video replays
> > for all penalty and red card descisions.
> >
> > Matt.
>
> Nice idea. Like the fourth official during a rugby or football match. I
knwo
> there was talk of this a while back, but it was scrapped due to the fact
it
> would make the game too long with too many breaks. Can we really see a
game
> being played that resembles an American Football match with all the
> stoppages?
Yes, then the element of individual fitness would be less important, and
technical skill would be rewarded.
No, I think the refs need more training, and given more leeway
> etc.....
No, they must be given less leeway if we want to have consistency.
SA Gooner
> Yes, then the element of individual fitness would be less important, and
> technical skill would be rewarded.
>
is one of the reasons I love football, because of the fitness levels
required with the technical skill.
>
> No, I think the refs need more training, and given more leeway
> > etc.....
>
> No, they must be given less leeway if we want to have consistency.
>
>
great. I read somwehere on this group a call for importing refs from
Europe....now there's an idea! lol
Mattiejay
referees should give the same punishment for the same crime on every
occasion. Shouldnt the severity of the punishment depend on the
merits of each individual situation? The laws of the game should
suggest an approriate punishment, but circumstances may vary.
Instead of taking away referees right to judge, help them do so.
Video replays take seconds and could be used for any red card or
penalty descision.
"John Porcella" <bron...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:<as3sn7$1dj$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>...
> > > The only way to cut these out is a fifth official with video replays
> > > for all penalty and red card descisions.
> > >
> > > Matt.
> >
> > Nice idea. Like the fourth official during a rugby or football match. I >knwo there was talk of this a while back, but it was scrapped due to the fact >>it would make the game too long with too many breaks. Can we really see a gamebeing played that resembles an American Football match with all the stoppages?
Ian
> > >I did not see this incident.
> >
> > Then your comments on the subject are irrelevant as this is the large
> > part of the argument.
>
> Nonsense. The debate was about Campbell, not Blanc.
No, the debate was about consistency.
>
>
>
> >
> > Durkin lacks the basic intelligence to officiate a football game.
>
> You do not need academic intelligence, just the sense to apply the laws.
Who mentioned academic intelligence, you not me. As I said he doesn't have
Weymel
"Ian" <ianeh...@whateveridontreadit.com> wrote in message
news:2cCcnXRkde2...@giganews.com...
> Who mentioned academic intelligence, you not me. As I said he doesn't have
the basic intelligence to officiate a football game.>
A football game, or a game involving Arse, looking at his ratings he seems
to be doing well and is respected by most supporters.
>
slimy
> That, alas made all the difference and he and Arsenal paid for Cygam's crass
> mistakes.
>
Who is this Cygam of whom you speak? I suggest that no such person exists.
Andy Kelly
A game involving Arsenal. From what I've seen he appears to treat
Arsenal players far more harshly than players of other teams.
E.g. He appeared to have no problems with Roy Keane pointing a finger
at him and saying "you are a fucking arsehole" but found whatever
Ashley Cole said to him last week highly offensive. If he finds being
called a fucking arsehole inoffensive then I dread to think what Cole
said to him.
Or his refusal to review his booking of Giovanni Van Bronckhorst for
"diving" last season even though TV replays showed it as a slip whilst
managing to "miss" Ruud Van Nistelroy's recent attempt to qualify for
the Dutch Olympic diving team in the recent game v Man City.
Or not even having a chat with Jerzy Dudek for pulling down Freddie
Ljungberg in the league game at Anfield last season.