more of the same
Pelle Schultz
scoring chances yet. Breakout is totally disorganized, as is defensive
coverage. There is no cycling, and very little possession in the
offensive zone. The Flyers look like they're playing a pick-up game.
Every single game in the last 3 weeks has loooked like this, and if
anything, it's getting worse.
Holmgren, start getting your short list of coaching candidates ready.
Hartley would be a good starting point. I have felt all along Stevens
did not have what it takes to be a coach in the NHL. He's proving it
on a nightly basis now. Holmgren will catch a lot of flak for
replacing Stevens, but why the seaosn go to hell?
Pelle
hammarb...@comcast.net
they're fucking horrible again. it's like watching a repeat of last
night, and every other night for awhile now. washington played last
night too, and have lost a bunch of games in a row, so it's not like
they're some world beater, but yet, against the flyers, they look like
one. i don't understand it.
stevens is firmly on my shit list now, but you have to put some onus
on the players for simply being outcompeted in every area, again,
after last night's junk show. this is where pride and effort come into
play and it looks like the entire team wants the night off.
the defense, which i thought was looking like a strong point early on,
is looking worse every game. they have no other options other than to
the throw the puck blindly along the boards to a waiting opposition
dman at the blueline. they get hemmed if for entire shifts at a time,
it's no wonder there's no attack. they're just trying to get the fuck
off the ice for a line change.
they all suck. except richards.
-j
Au Revoire
I have no idea why they didn't make a coaching change before the
season began, especially with all of the new faces. Did Holmgren
really think an AHL coach would suffice? It's maybe early enough to
do something now rather than in January.
Good on Richards for scrapping it up a bit. The kid is golden.
--
*Faith*ful Flyer fan
Au Revoire
Rick Y
news:1194046805.2...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
This is something that you and I agree on. Firing him now would be the
right thing. He really doesn't have a clue, he doesn't have a system,
and he doesn't have a team. He won an AHL championship because of the
lock-out which pushed a halfd dozen NHLers onto the Phantoms roster. It
was nothing more/nothing less. There really is a bunch of young
talented players on the Flyers and the right coach could right this ship
while there's still time. You wanna place the call to Homer? BTW, I
haven't watched a minute of this game yet and I don't plan on it either.
I paid for center Ice, but I've seen this game many times last year and
saw it last night. Thanks for you post....it *had* to be said...and
repeated.
Rick
Rick Y
news:qpeni3h63biof1nrp...@4ax.com:
I was really hoping for a change too. This team needs a system that
works, that the players can beliebe in. It can't be hard to figure out
as Steven's claimed. If a system is hard for the players to figure out,
it'll never work. If Steven's system is to wear out their offense by
keeping them in your end and force them to take many shots, I think they
understand that part.
Rick
I am Canadian
I understood giving the guy a chance from the beginning of the year,
but I'd assume he had to be on a very short leash considering the
changes that were made. It would be hard to fire a guy with their
current record but they have to be the most disorganized team to
accumulate a record like theirs. As each game goes by my confidence in
the team gets lower and lower. Sure they can compete with the lesser
lights like Washington, but the good teams are going to school them.
Night after night they give up 40+ shots. Luckily Biron has been
outstanding to start the year and stole them a few games.
It will be real interesting to see how it plays out when they have to
play a string of games against some of the better teams (Ottawa,
Buffalo ect...)
Jeff
Pelle Schultz
Well Rick, the Flyers are up 3-1 now. LOL. I hate to sound ungrateful
or whatever, but the first two goals were off the rush, and the third
was on an extended PP. Thing is, Kolzig played last night and saw a
lot of rubber--Hanlon gambled by playing him 2 nights in a row and
he's losing the bet right now. The Flyers have a bit more jump. But
the overall issues haven't changed.
As Jeff mentioned elsewhere, if they play like this against the Sens
or other top teams it's going to look like the Montreal game last
night all over again. The team is really underachieving. I can't say
Stevens is doing a bad job with the young guys--that's probably his
strength. But the vets are making terrible mistakes. Timonen keeps
passing the puck up the boards on the breakout and there's no one
there. It's sort of like the guys who know how to play well in a
system just don't know what to do, and are practically begging for
some order to be imposed.
Pelle
Au Revoire
<evil_...@mac.com> wrote:
>Well Rick, the Flyers are up 3-1 now. LOL. I hate to sound ungrateful
>or whatever, but the first two goals were off the rush, and the third
>was on an extended PP. Thing is, Kolzig played last night and saw a
>lot of rubber--Hanlon gambled by playing him 2 nights in a row and
>he's losing the bet right now. The Flyers have a bit more jump. But
>the overall issues haven't changed.
>
>As Jeff mentioned elsewhere, if they play like this against the Sens
>or other top teams it's going to look like the Montreal game last
>night all over again. The team is really underachieving. I can't say
>Stevens is doing a bad job with the young guys--that's probably his
>strength. But the vets are making terrible mistakes. Timonen keeps
>passing the puck up the boards on the breakout and there's no one
>there. It's sort of like the guys who know how to play well in a
>system just don't know what to do, and are practically begging for
>some order to be imposed.
They're *all* passing the puck up the boards in their own zone, as if
someone will be there. Whatever play that is, it's a joke. I
sometimes feel as if some of the players are like "not mine, just get
it the fuck off my stick! I'm not responsible!" Guys like Richards
and Briere are all over that and you can see their effort, but
sometimes it all gets to be too much. Is it the "system" or an error
in judgment in coaching style?
I did like the quote from Richards the other day about being "allowed"
to be offensive, if he felt his line was winning over the opposing
line. Hitch would have melded him into a backchecker with limited
abilities, but awesome on the PK. It's almost as if Richards is
playing the game as *he'd* like to play it, if that makes any sense.
But like everyone has said, all of you guys, it looks disorganized
beyond belief, as if they're pulling these games out of their asses.
And, Rick, they'll have the 10 wins before the 10 losses, but it won't
look pretty, or even remotely assembled. I'm more worried about them
having 20 wins over 20 losses.
Can we wrest Crawford out of L.A.? ;) OK, I'd go with Burns or even
Quinn over Stevens right now.
Chuck
> beyond belief, as if they're pulling these games out of their asses.
> And, Rick, they'll have the 10 wins before the 10 losses, but it won't
> look pretty, or even remotely assembled. I'm more worried about them
> having 20 wins over 20 losses.
>
> Can we wrest Crawford out of L.A.? ;) OK, I'd go with Burns or even
> Quinn over Stevens right now.
I'm never sure the coach will make enough of a difference. I really think
the team will make the coach. I'm not a huge Stevens fan, but he has come
along. Time will tell.
Au Revoire
But how much time? It's true, the fans love the blowouts, a la the
Canucks a few weeks ago, but these first period lapses are out of
control. Get an early lead, play dead and clog up the lanes for the
majority of the game, bore them to death, and then tighten it up for
the flurry at the end. :-) ;-)
Chuck
> Canucks a few weeks ago, but these first period lapses are out of
> control. Get an early lead, play dead and clog up the lanes for the
> majority of the game, bore them to death, and then tighten it up for
> the flurry at the end. :-) ;-)
I hear ya. I just can't blame the coach for the team coming oot of the
locker room flat almost every game. I'm not going to blame Smith, Richards,
or ( the other A...I'm drawing a blank) but I can't really pin this on the
coach.
I'm not sold on Stevens, but the team needs to be ready to play at
7:00-7:30.
Luke
"Pelle Schultz" <evil_...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1194046805.2...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
season plus have had a couple of starters out with injuries. Geez....talk
about a quick hook. I don't think you'll be able to judge the coaching until
3/4 of the way through the season. I'd like to look back at Lindy Rupp's
first 20 games and see what his record was. It would be equivalent to
hiring someone and giving them one week to prove themselves or they're gone.
It takes time to acclimate different styles and strengths plus implement
unfamiliar systems to the new players. Totally new assistant coaches as
well so they are bringing different strategies to the team.
Rick Y
news:moedndLA398H1rHa...@comcast.com:
I don't blame Stevens, but I do blame Holmgren for placing Stevens in
that position. If he were the right coach for the team, there would've
been steady improvement over Hitch following Hitch's firing. Instead
the team got worse....*record* setting worse. Then the team comes out
this year plays hard earns some wins off of Biron's effort and sudddenly
Stevens looks like a genius, only it wasn't Stevens, it was Biron, or
the goalie coach, but it sure wasn't Stevens. So the Flyers go on
getting pummeled from lack of a suitable defensive system, but how long
can Biron keep stopping 19 of every twenty shots on goal, when the
league average is probably slightly less than 9 of *ten*? I can blame
Stevens for the team coming out flat, every game because that tells me
he hasn't adequately prepared his team to come out of the gates running
so to speak. If he were really a speacial coach, there wouldn't be any
discussion right now about his coaching future with the Flyers. Then
there are proven coaches that seem to succeed everywhere they go. The
Flyers have the money when an elite coach comes available sinces coaches
salary does not fall under the cap, but they will sit pat and wait for
the team's youngster to get discouraged at a lack of effective team
direction. Players who came with optimism will look for ways to move on
and players who are here because the Flyers drafted them will just not
sign whenntheir contract expires. Rookie coaches coaching rookies and
second and third year players is NOT a very good combo. If it were up
to me I would move him over on the bench and look around for an
experienced NHL coach who has been there before , preferably with a
young team.
Rick
Rick Y
news:-u2dnStLvIAi8bHa...@comcast.com:
This is not his first twenty games, we already saw that last year. He
has had this team now for an entire year. He gets an F.
Rick
Pelle Schultz
> "Luke" <rluk...@comcast.net> wrote innews:-u2dnStLvIAi8bHa...@comcast.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Pelle Schultz" <evil_emp...@mac.com> wrote in message
That might be a bit harsh. Stevens was a company man brought in to
preside over what had already become a disaster. What happened far
more quickly than anyone imagined was how completely Holmgren chanaged
and rebuilt the team.
The problems with Stevens have always been obvious: the team has
trouble executing basic hockey, like breakouts and cycles. I think he
should get half a season to improve. I don't see it happening, but
Stevens should get a chance to show what he can do with everyone
healthy...and not suspended.
I'd give him a C.
Pelle
Nick Storm
The talk about Stevens getting the hook is a little premature....the team
has a good record. This may be more due to Biron holding us in games but
changing a coach is pretty disruptive and now is not the time.As long as
wins are rolling in.....if it ain't choking....don't Heimlich it.
There are two rules in life...#1 - There is always a victim, #2 - Don't be
it.
This message may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and
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you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately
by telephone or email and delete the original message immediately.
"Pelle Schultz" <evil_...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1194103956.5...@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Jeg7777
>
> This is not his first twenty games, we already saw that last year. He
> has had this team now for an entire year. He gets an F.
He hasn't had *this* team for a year. They've made a number of changes
in the roster between when he took over and the start of this season.
And there's no way an 8-4 team gets an F.
--
Joe
“And then I had this dream that my whole family was just cartoon
characters, and that our success had led to some crazy propaganda
network called ‘Fox News.’” – Bart Simpson
Rich
>This is not his first twenty games, we already saw that last year. He
>has had this team now for an entire year. He gets an F.
>
>Rick
I actually thought you knew something about hockey, but you're
sounding like an idiot here. Calling for a coach's head when a team
is 8-4 is stupid, downright stupid. Last year cannot be blamed on
Stevens, period.
Pelle Schultz
You either don't watch the games, know nothing about hockey...or both.
So which is it?
Pelle
Pelle Schultz
What I also should've said before (and am saying now) is that the
majority of players on this team have spent a full season or more with
Stevens as coach (Gagne/Knuble/Richards/Carter/Umberger/Eager/Kapanen/
Hatcher/Jones/Niittymaki/Cote). Many of these players were also
coached by Stevens in the AHL. Some of the rest have played half a
season (or close to it) now with Stevens as coach (Upshall/Coburn/
Biron/Kukkonen). The only 'new' players are Briere, Smith, Timonen,
Hartnell, Lupul, Dowd and Fitzpatrick--one-third of the skaters,
essentially.
A lot of other teams have a similar number of new players--Montreal
and Ottawa for example--and are not having the same issues.
Pelle
Rich
<evil_...@mac.com> wrote:
>> I actually thought you knew something about hockey, but you're
>> sounding like an idiot here. Calling for a coach's head when a team
>> is 8-4 is stupid, downright stupid. Last year cannot be blamed on
>> Stevens, period.
>
>You either don't watch the games, know nothing about hockey...or both.
>So which is it?
>
>Pelle
Maybe I've watched every game for the past decade on Center Ice and
can't understand the whole "sky is falling" when the team is in first
place. Last year was freaking painful and things are quite a bit
better now.
Is a realistic fan thinking everything would be fixed, magically,
during a single off-season? It's a work in progress.
Maybe I should ask if you guys could ever be fucking happy or would
you always be looking for the cloud during a sunny day.
They turn in 2 good periods last night and all I see is "fire Stevens.
He gets an F" Sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.
gotanygum?
> On Nov 3, 7:32 pm, Rich <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 13:21:27 GMT, Rick Y <nu...@business.com> wrote:
> > >This is not his first twenty games, we already saw that last year. He
> > >has had this team now for an entire year. He gets an F.
>
> > >Rick
>
> > I actually thought you knew something about hockey,
he does.....hes pretty skilled in baseball also!
but you're
> > sounding like an idiot here.
Sure you're not confusing him with me?
Calling for a coach's head when a team
> > is 8-4 is stupid, downright stupid.
WRONG..........Look at the lineup........Our losses are to
Edmonton,Tampa Bay,Florida and Montreal,they should ALL be wins
this team shoulld be 12-0-0 right now
We should fire Stevens and replace him with assisstant coach Terry
Murray who took us to the cup finals in 1997
Last year cannot be blamed on
> > Stevens, period.
Yes he can...........Clarke and Hitchcock were fired at
1-6-0....................Stevens has all season and we got WORSE
>
> You either don't watch the games, know nothing about hockey...or both.
> So which is it?
Niether..............he knows more than most people..........only "I"
know more poopsie
>
> Pelle
gotanygum?
Flyers have been KNOWN for only showing up for 40 minutes
that will lose you a lot of games...........thats the coaches fault
Rich
<gota...@gotanygum.net> wrote:
>WRONG..........Look at the lineup........Our losses are to
>Edmonton,Tampa Bay,Florida and Montreal,they should ALL be wins
>this team shoulld be 12-0-0 right now
>We should fire Stevens and replace him with assisstant coach Terry
>Murray who took us to the cup finals in 1997
Yeah, and Harang's coming to the Phillies and Jim Jackson is going to
be their play-by-play announcer.
Pelle Schultz
>
So the answer is: you don't know anything about hockey. You could've
just said that and saved a lot of time.
Pelle
Rich
<evil_...@mac.com> wrote:
>> They turn in 2 good periods last night and all I see is "fire Stevens.
>> He gets an F" Sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.
>
>So the answer is: you don't know anything about hockey. You could've
>just said that and saved a lot of time.
>
>Pelle
Fuck you. I know just as much about the sport as you. I just don't
choose to be a fucking reactionary every time the team plays poorly
for one game or one period. Oh, let me say again: Fuck you.
neon leon
"Rick Y" <nu...@business.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99DCD1A6C...@199.45.49.11...
The system is very different than last year. They're setting up a defensive
box, on both PK or 5-on-5. If the puck gets anywhere near the goal, they're
collapsing and defending well. Sure the other teams are getting alot of
shots, but there not quality shots. I don't mind giving up 40 shots, as
long as we win 5-0.
Rick Y
news:gOGdnXNn2cRGcLHa...@comcast.com:
> Rick Y wrote:
>>
>> This is not his first twenty games, we already saw that last year.
He
>> has had this team now for an entire year. He gets an F.
>
> He hasn't had *this* team for a year. They've made a number of changes
> in the roster between when he took over and the start of this season.
> And there's no way an 8-4 team gets an F.
>
I didn't say the Team gets an F, I said Stevens gets an F. FOr last
year and this year combined.
Rick
Pelle Schultz
> >> They turn in 2 good periods last night and all I see is "fire Stevens.
> >> He gets an F" Sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.
>
> >So the answer is: you don't know anything about hockey. You could've
> >just said that and saved a lot of time.
>
> >Pelle
>
> Fuck you. I know just as much about the sport as you. I just don't
> choose to be a fucking reactionary every time the team plays poorly
> for one game or one period. Oh, let me say again: Fuck you.
My observations are based on watching Stevens coach last season and
this season. You haven't posted a single substantive argument to
refute anything I've said.
This team is leading the entire NHL in shots against (and that's with
Smith in the lineup!), and getting outplayed in every single game
(with the exception of the Vancouver one). They can't execute the
basics most of the time. Against teams of similar skill (e.g. MTL)
they're getting dominated to an embarrassing degree, or barely eking
out wins (Boston, Carolina). Lucky scoring and Biron standing on his
head will not continue to result in a 2-1 W:L ratio.
And you also need to look up the definition of the word reactionary.
Pelle
Jeg7777
There's no way a coach with an 8-4 record (before tonight) gets an F. As
for last year, with all that went on I can't give him an F for that either.
Rick Y
news:4pudneDZcYJzf7La...@comcast.com:
> Rick Y wrote:
>> Jeg7777 <m...@privacy.net> wrote in
>> news:gOGdnXNn2cRGcLHa...@comcast.com:
>>
>>
>>>Rick Y wrote:
>>>
>>>>This is not his first twenty games, we already saw that last year.
>>
>> He
>>
>>>>has had this team now for an entire year. He gets an F.
>>>
>>>He hasn't had *this* team for a year. They've made a number of
>>>changes in the roster between when he took over and the start of this
>>>season. And there's no way an 8-4 team gets an F.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I didn't say the Team gets an F, I said Stevens gets an F. FOr last
>> year and this year combined.
>
> There's no way a coach with an 8-4 record (before tonight) gets an F.
> As for last year, with all that went on I can't give him an F for that
> either.
>
>
What did he do for the team? The team is better in general because of
spening up to the cap. That was Holmgren's work, especially getting
Biron. Stevens does not have a system and the players are nover
prepared in the first period and have not played an entire 60 minutes in
any one game this year. What grade would you give a coach under those
circumstances? Next question, do you watch the games?
Rick
Jeg7777
>
> What did he do for the team? The team is better in general because of
> spening up to the cap. That was Holmgren's work, especially getting
> Biron. Stevens does not have a system and the players are nover
> prepared in the first period and have not played an entire 60 minutes in
> any one game this year. What grade would you give a coach under those
> circumstances?
Last year was a disaster from the start. I don't feel the need to grade
Stevens for last year under the circumstances seeing as how he took over
after the season already started and with all the changes that occurred
during the year.
> Next question, do you watch the games?
A better question is, why are you getting so defensive because not
everyone agrees with your assessment?
greg's wide stance
> A better question is, why are you getting so defensive because not
> everyone agrees with your assessment?
Because this is usenet...it's what you do.
g
Rick Y
news:k7mdnSH2IuE4eq3a...@comcast.com:
> Rick Y wrote:
>>
>> What did he do for the team? The team is better in general because
>> of spening up to the cap. That was Holmgren's work, especially
>> getting Biron. Stevens does not have a system and the players are
>> nover prepared in the first period and have not played an entire 60
>> minutes in any one game this year. What grade would you give a coach
>> under those circumstances?
>
> Last year was a disaster from the start. I don't feel the need to
> grade Stevens for last year under the circumstances seeing as how he
> took over after the season already started and with all the changes
> that occurred during the year.
I don't agree with that. There were some good players on that team, but
you sure wouldn't know it. It's the coaches job to utilize the players
and bring out the best in them. Yes, things were bad from the start,
but he was promoted to turn things around, but they just got worse under
his direction.
>> Next question, do you watch the games?
>
> A better question is, why are you getting so defensive because not
> everyone agrees with your assessment?
You mean why would I defend critism of my argument? Probably for the
same reason you replied with your disagreement. It's a discussion
group..point-counterpoint, see what I mean. I don't take your comments
personal, but I will try to help you understand my position.
Rick
Rob
> Jeg7777 <m...@privacy.net> wrote in
> news:k7mdnSH2IuE4eq3a...@comcast.com:
>
>> Rick Y wrote:
>>>
>>> What did he do for the team? The team is better in general because
>>> of spening up to the cap. That was Holmgren's work, especially
>>> getting Biron. Stevens does not have a system and the players are
>>> nover prepared in the first period and have not played an entire 60
>>> minutes in any one game this year. What grade would you give a coach
>>> under those circumstances?
>>
>> Last year was a disaster from the start. I don't feel the need to
>> grade Stevens for last year under the circumstances seeing as how he
>> took over after the season already started and with all the changes
>> that occurred during the year.
>
> I don't agree with that. There were some good players on that team, but
> you sure wouldn't know it. It's the coaches job to utilize the players
> and bring out the best in them. Yes, things were bad from the start,
> but he was promoted to turn things around, but they just got worse under
> his direction.
I don't think they got worse, they just stayed the same. I still think the
big reason they had so much trouble last year was due to the lack of veteran
leadership in the lockerroom. Getting a new coach didn't change that.
Jr
Rick Y
That is certainly a factor, Jr. They expected to get that from Hatcher,
but the only thing he really lead yhr Flyers in was off season weight
gain and the - side of the +/- scale.
However, the Flyers set team records for futility last year and Hitch
was gone after just 8 games. It's a new year with some very good
players on that team after the Flyers spent up to the cap limit. If
Stevens can't figure it out or the players can't figure Stevens out by
mid-way, they'll need to do something.
Rick