Proposed Trade
Ronald Kim
tagl...@worldcom.ch wrote:
>cp...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (R.Joseph Daly) wrote:
>>
>>
>> I propose a trade of Alexei Kovalev for Chris Gratton of the Lightning.
>You've got half of that right. Deal Kov (and maybe a scrub or two) to
>Vancouver for Alex Mogliny. The Nucks want a Euro center for Bure (let's
>face it, Kovalev's best position), and want to dump some salary. Adding
>Mogilny would make us absolutley deadly.
Mogilny, deadly ...? What the Rangers do NOT need is more offense
.. they need defense ... the Rangers rank first in offense, as in
goals and power-play conversions ... this is NOT what they need ... or
should shop for ... i my opinion, Kovalev is also much more of a
better defensive player than Mogilny is ... Mogilny 's lack of
defensive awareness could be the only thing DEADLY for the Rangers if
they ever acquired him from Vancouver. Shop for defense, not more
offense.
Whoever says that Chris Gratton is a guy who can get all of the crease
goals is mistaken .. and as for his leadership abilities ... he is far
from a legitimate leader ... and leadership is something the Rangers
do not need ... Patrick Flately (ex-captain of the Islanders), Mark
Messier, and Wayne Gretzky (captain for LA and St. Louis), Brian
Leetch (Captain for Team USA in the World Cup) ... no leadership
capaibilities is not something thatthe Rangers need more of ... and
Gratton, who was like a 3rd overall pick of Tampa Bay, has yet to fill
his "vast" potential.
Ronald Kim
-)----
rr...@lehigh.edu
http://www.lehigh.edu/~rrk3
Keith D. Goldberg
In article <5agp02$8...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, cp...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(R.Joseph Daly) wrote:
> I propose a trade of Alexei Kovalev for Chris Gratton of the Lightning.
>
> Gratton would give the Rangers a young power forward with leadership
> skills and the ability to score crease goals.Kovalev will never score 40 goals
> in this league.Furthermore,the Rangers have an abundance of skilled finesse
> players,making Kovalev expendable.Gratton could emrge as comparable to a
> player like Brendan Shanahan.
> Maybe,i'm overstating Kovalev's trade value,but this trade is worth
consideration.
>
> ******* GULLIVER *******
Interesting, but I don't think TB is ready to give up on Gratton yet, and
you know how it is, teams rarely make trades within their division. As for
Kovalev, I am definitely fed up with his play. If he's going to be star,
it's going to be on another team, and probably in the Western Conference.
What about if the Rangers traded Kovalev to San Jose for Owen Nolan. He's
the type of player who could thrive in the Eastern Conference.
R.Joseph Daly
Malek
R.Joseph Daly (cp...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
: I propose a trade of Alexei Kovalev for Chris Gratton of the Lightning.
: ******* GULLIVER *******
Why gratton?
I was thinking more on the lines of Mogilny
Keith D. Goldberg
Rumor has it that Gratton might go to Chicago in exchange for Ed Belfour.
The trade I was most interested in was Kovalev and Beukeboom to Toronto for
Mats Sundin. THAT would be a great trade.
CHASFL7
At this point, I think we should trade Kovalev for anything that can skate
and pass the puck. I think Keenan would have taken him and givin us
something decent in return. Kovalev's got to go.
Keith D. Goldberg
In article <5ap6mb$2...@linet06.li.net>, jrm...@newshost.li.net (Malek) wrote:
> Keith D. Goldberg (kdg...@is5.nyu.edu) wrote:
> : In article <5agp02$8...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, cp...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> : (R.Joseph Daly) wrote:
>
> : > I propose a trade of Alexei Kovalev for Chris Gratton of the Lightning.
> : >
> : > Gratton would give the Rangers a young power forward with leadership
> : > skills and the ability to score crease goals.Kovalev will never score
40 goals
> : > in this league.Furthermore,the Rangers have an abundance of skilled
finesse
> : > players,making Kovalev expendable.Gratton could emrge as comparable to a
> : > player like Brendan Shanahan.
> : > Maybe,i'm overstating Kovalev's trade value,but this trade is worth
> : consideration.
> : >
> : > ******* GULLIVER *******
> : Interesting, but I don't think TB is ready to give up on Gratton yet, and
> : you know how it is, teams rarely make trades within their division. As for
> : Kovalev, I am definitely fed up with his play. If he's going to be star,
> : it's going to be on another team, and probably in the Western Conference.
> : What about if the Rangers traded Kovalev to San Jose for Owen Nolan. He's
> : the type of player who could thrive in the Eastern Conference.
>
> First off, you're right about Kovalev being a star in the west, that is
> where he'll have room for his fanciness.
>
> San Jose will definitely not give up Nolan, and definitly not for Kovalev.
You really think so? Supposedly, San Jose is dissatisfied with his play,
and may be interested in trading him. If that trade doesn't go through,
another trade rumor I really liked was Kovalev and Beukeboom to Toronto for
Mats Sundin. Although that trade is probably unlikely, it's an extremely
interesting one.
Keith D. Goldberg
In article <32d04140...@netnews.voicenet.com>, So...@No.Trash.Mail wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:13:30 -0400 Keith D. Goldberg wrote:
>
> >Rumor has it that Gratton might go to Chicago in exchange for Ed Belfour.
> >The trade I was most interested in was Kovalev and Beukeboom to Toronto for
> >Mats Sundin. THAT would be a great trade.
>
> Suuuure it would. Lidster is certainly capable of filling in for Beuk
> on the #1 defense pairing. Right.
>
> There can be *no* trade of Beuk in '96-'97 that doesn't retun a
> quality defenseman.
>
> So, simply *ignore* as ludicrous any trade rumours including Beuk for
> the balance of this year.
>
>
> Regards,
> Neil
> Return Address: np...@voicenet.com
>
> "Don't worry that the horse is blind, boys . . .
> . . . just keep loading the wagon."
Well, in my opinion Beukeboom has been terrible this year, and wasn't too
good last year either. He turns the puck over a lot in the defensive zone,
his passes out of the zone aren't crisp, and he takes some of the dumbest
penalties at the most inopportune times. Although Cairns is only a rookie,
he could develop into a Beukeboom type player, except with more offensive
capabilities. You certainly don't give up anything in size.
However, if you really think the Rangers need to get a defenseman back,
how about this trade: Kovalev, Beukeboom, and a first-round pick for Sundin
and Mathieu Schneider. You might get Toronto to nibble at that trade,
thy're looking to dump a little salary.
Malek
Neil Polo
Michael H. Sherrane
jrm...@newshost.li.net (Malek) wrote:
(snip)
>: What about if the Rangers traded Kovalev to San Jose for Owen Nolan. He's
>: the type of player who could thrive in the Eastern Conference.
>First off, you're right about Kovalev being a star in the west, that is
>where he'll have room for his fanciness.
>San Jose will definitely not give up Nolan, and definitly not for Kovalev.
All reports that I've heard was that San Jose is _very_ disappointed
with Nolan. In fact, they consider the trade (Sandis Ozolinsh (sp?)
for Nolan) a complete bust. This is usually a sign that the team
might be ready to trade. If San Jose would take Kovalev straight up,
this is a no-brainer. I wouldn't have a problem with Kovalev and
(minor leaguer like Gernander) for Nolan.
Neil Polo
On Sun, 05 Jan 1997 21:15:21 -0400 Keith D. Goldberg wrote:
>Although Cairns is only a rookie,
>he could develop into a Beukeboom type player, except with more offensive
>capabilities. You certainly don't give up anything in size.
Cairns is not now and may never be a full replacement for Beuk. In any
case, not this year.
> However, if you really think the Rangers need to get a defenseman back,
>how about this trade: Kovalev, Beukeboom, and a first-round pick for Sundin
>and Mathieu Schneider. You might get Toronto to nibble at that trade,
>thy're looking to dump a little salary.
Let's see . . . Sundin is better than Kovalev, Schneider is - in your
opinion - far better than that loser Beukaboom, and a first round NYR
draft choice is basically a second round pick.
So, its apparent you'd be happy with this trade - if you think
Schneider would be a good partner for Leetch. Personally, I think this
trade would require breaking up Karp and Ulf, requiring a fair amount
of resettling.
And, as you admit, Toronto wouldn't go for this on the basis of the
trade alone. So, they'd have to be willing to dump salary. But Beuk
makes more than Schneider, and Kovalev is in his last "bargain" year.
Still, someone may think they can get Kovalev far cheaper than Sundin,
so they may view it as a salary dump.
Summary: I don't think Toronto would go for it at all. Rangers could
consider it.
Keith D. Goldberg
Well, that may be the case. I just threw in Schneider's name because the
person I responded to wanted a defenseman in the mix. However, I think the
Kovalev-Beukeboom for Sundin trade still holds merit. As for the
Beukeboom-Cairns comparison, I really think Cairns could develop. One
difference I see already is that Cairns has slightly better puck-handling
skills. For a veteran defenseman, Beukeboom coughs up the puck way too
much, and makes terrible passes out of the zone, and he's been doing for
the past two years. Also, he still takes dumb penalties in key situations.
A perfect example is the game against Colorado. On a Colorado rush in the
first period, Beukeboom took his man into the boards effectively. However,
even as the play moved the other way, Beukeboom kept pinning his man to the
boards, and eventually was whistled for interference. The Avalanche scored
on that power play. And the frustrating thing is, it's becoming more
common.
However, he is big, and that could entice a team like Toronto, who isn't
really that strong on the blue line. Will he and Kovalev be enough to get
Sundin? That depends on the Leafs. Supposedly, they really like Kovalev,
and if they're looking to dump some salary, a trade might be possible.
Keith D. Goldberg
In article <32d2c005...@news.eclipse.net>, zub...@eden.rutgers.edu
(doni) wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Jan 1997 00:11:50 GMT, So...@No.Trash.Mail (Neil Polo)
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:13:30 -0400 Keith D. Goldberg wrote:
> >
> >>Rumor has it that Gratton might go to Chicago in exchange for Ed Belfour.
> >>The trade I was most interested in was Kovalev and Beukeboom to Toronto for
> >>Mats Sundin. THAT would be a great trade.
> >
> >Suuuure it would. Lidster is certainly capable of filling in for Beuk
> >on the #1 defense pairing. Right.
> >
> >There can be *no* trade of Beuk in '96-'97 that doesn't retun a
> >quality defenseman.
> >
> >So, simply *ignore* as ludicrous any trade rumours including Beuk for
> >the balance of this year.
> >
> >
> >Regards,
> >Neil
> >Return Address: np...@voicenet.com
> >
> >"Don't worry that the horse is blind, boys . . .
> >. . . just keep loading the wagon."
>
> Agreed. Besides, do you realy think Toronto would be willing to pay 2
> million a year for Beuk? Get real!
>
> Sundin is a great player, but would the Leafs be willling to part with
> him, especially with the heavy decline of Dougie Gilmour? And Wendell
> Clark is a geezer. If Toronto makes the rumored trade of Gilmour with
> the Devils, they will need Sundin for his firepower - and won't need a
> high priced defenseman from the Rangers. I think it would be good for
> both teams (Devs and Leafs) to complete that trade, so forget any
> thoughts about us getting Sundin.
>
> I haven't heard about the Belfour rumor. What about Potvin? Where does
> he fit in all that? Ship him for a little offense?
Rumor has it that Belfour might be shipped to Tampa Bay for Chris
Gratton. Also, there is a possibility that Belfour and Eric Daze included
in even a larger package.
Keith D. Goldberg
In article <32d452dd...@netnews.voicenet.com>, So...@No.Trash.Mail wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:21:50 -0400 Keith D. Goldberg wrote:
>
> > Well, that may be the case. I just threw in Schneider's name because the
> >person I responded to wanted a defenseman in the mix.
>
> That was me.
>
> > However, I think the
> >Kovalev-Beukeboom for Sundin trade still holds merit.
>
> No, it has none.
>
> > As for the
> >Beukeboom-Cairns comparison, I really think Cairns could develop.
>
> Yes, but he won't be there this year in any case. No sane GM who had
> any other choice would take a chance on an extremely slow-footed
> Cairns without having seen him in the playoffs first.
>
> > One
> >difference I see already is that Cairns has slightly better puck-handling
> >skills.
>
> You can't be serious. He made his first NHL mid-ice deke in the last
> game.
>
> > For a veteran defenseman, Beukeboom coughs up the puck way too
> >much, and makes terrible passes out of the zone, and he's been doing for
> >the past two years.
>
> By actual count he coughs it up less than Leetch.
>
> > Also, he still takes dumb penalties in key situations.
> >A perfect example is the game against Colorado. On a Colorado rush in the
> >first period, Beukeboom took his man into the boards effectively. However,
> >even as the play moved the other way, Beukeboom kept pinning his man to the
> >boards, and eventually was whistled for interference. The Avalanche scored
> >on that power play. And the frustrating thing is, it's becoming more
> >common.
>
> No, its not. He has less PIM this year than the last two full years.
>
> Hey, you don't like Beuk, and that's cool. But he has been the #2
> defenseman on this club for a lot of years for good reasons.
>
>
> Regards,
> Neil
> Return Address: np...@voicenet.com
As for the comparison between Beukeboom and Leetch, Leetch is an
offensive defenseman, and is prone to giving up the puck, since he jumps
into the play frequently. However, I've watched every game this year, and
Beukeboom has coughed up the puck as many times as Leetch. For a defensive
defenseman, that's not very good. Also, it's not that he takes penalties
frequently, but the penalties he takes are of the questionable variety,
that is, they're results of mental errors. The Colorado game is an example.
He had already taken his man out, and the play had already moved the other
way. Why continue holding his man? That's just not smart hockey.
Look, it's not that I don't like Beukeboom. Hey, he's been great for
years now, and was rock-solid during the '94 Cup run. But during the past
two seasons, he has developed these two annoying habits: taking
questionable penalties and inopportune times, and coughing the puck up in
the defensive or neutral zone. It cost them a playoff game against
Pittsburgh last year, and it's cost them numerous goals this year. If
Beukeboom can return to his form of two, three seasons ago, I would have no
problem with him remaining on the team. However, if he continues to make
the same mistakes, I think they should trade him.
Neil Polo
JONNY GROSSMAN
> >cp...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (R.Joseph Daly) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I propose a trade of Alexei Kovalev for Chris Gratton of the Lightning.