Stevens Rape Charges...
Leon Keylin
buckaroos I've included the main pieces of the entire issue. I've
skimmed opinion articles, since we have more than enough here (and it
all depends who wrote the pieces, in a male/female split it's pretty
sad that it had to be that way) and went by what the Grand Jury would
know about the case.
When: 1990, May
Who: Dino Ciccarelli, Geoff Courtnall, Neil Sheehy and Scott Stevens
Where: The incident allegedly occurred in a limo parked in
the rear of the popular sports bar Champions in Georgetown
What happened:
The alleged incident occurred after a party for the Capitals at
Champions, a sports bar in Georgetown.
However, there were never any formal charges made against Ciccarelli
and teammates Geoff Courtnall, Neil Sheehy and Scott Stevens and,
according to the District of Columbia police, the matter has been
dropped. [Originally, which is where the GJ picked up from, L.K.]
================
A 17-year-old who has accused three Washington Capitals of
rape consented to have sex with one of the accused and two
"forced themselves upon her," a law enforcement official
said yesterday.
But the driver of a limousine in which the alleged incident
occurred said he told prosecutors that he doubts her
allegations even though he overheard the three men say they
all had sexual relations with her.
'When I heard `rape' or forced whatever, I have to disagree,'
said Mr. Valentine, who talked with reporters after leaving
the U.S. Attorney's Office. "I can say with no problem that
a rape - when someone is forced to do something against
their will - is absolutely out of the question."
Mr. Valentine said when he returned, Mr. Stevens was outside
of the car talking to Champions employees and another woman,
and the car was "rocking."
Mr. Valentine said he left the car again. When he returned,
the privacy shield was down. Two more players, he said, got
in the car to be driven home.
"I then pulled away from Champions," Mr. Valentine said. "I
drove around the corner to another bar, the Third Edition,
where Mr. Sheehy said he wanted to get out. Mr. Sheehy
exited the vehicle and the young lady decided to leave, too.
When she did, she turned to the players and said `Thanks,
guys. See you later.' She then met some other friends and
walked down the street."
The law enforcement official said investigators believe the
girl may have consented to sex with one player. Two others
allegedly "forced themselves upon her," while a third,
identified as defenseman Scott Stevens, stood outside of the
limousine, said the official, who asked not to be named.
=================
Her testimony: The girl, who appeared before the federal
grand jury earlier this week, has accused three members of
the hockey team of sexually assaulting her in the parked car
about 1 a.m. Saturday. She told police one of the players
had "come into the bar, accosted her and removed her from
the club," another law enforcement official said.
===============
Interesting side bit:
The Washington Post last month quoted sources as saying
Kypreos told investigators, before visiting the grand jury,
that he had stepped into the limousine with a bucket of
chicken, but left when he saw the girl struggling with the
players.
"These statements were incorrect. I neither observed what
was reported, nor did I ever make such a statement to
investigators."
A source close to the investigation said yesterday that
Kypreos told the grand jury that he stepped inside the
limousine and saw the girl inside laughing and joking with
the players. Kypreos then left the limousine to get a bucket
of chicken and when he returned, saw no indication that the
girl was being forced to do anything against her will, the
source said Kypreos told the jurors.
--------------------
MY conclusion? At the most Stevens was (is?) one stupid jerkoff to be
with the 3 idiots. I mean who hangs out with Dino anyway? If he knew
the intent or what was going on then he is as much part of the sex as
the other three. If he knew that the girl consented to ONE player and
that's what he thought was happening in the limo, then he is still
stupid but not a participant. If he knew all 3 were gangbanging her,
then he is guilty, at least in my book.
One thing though, while sex with a minor (In the US it's under 18,
where I am from it's 16) is a crime here, and definitely a moral crime
to many no matter where you live, I can't say that it was "rape."
That was the basis about the case being thrown out by the grand jury.
They "questioned her credibility and some reports of inconsistencies."
I will never see the guy the same, that's for sure, the seed has been
planted and I wonder whether it will grow or whither. It certainly does
not make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
zubov
I suggest mandatory castration for Scottie.
--
-z-
"So tell me Mr. Rick, what brought you to Casablanca?"
"Why, I came here for the waters."
"Waters? There is no water; we're in the desert."
"Then I was misinformed."
"Leon Keylin" <leon_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93kpfp$c9n$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Terrence Chan
<leon_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>The following is my quotes from different papers. After spending 43
>buckaroos I've included the main pieces of the entire issue. I've
>skimmed opinion articles, since we have more than enough here (and it
>all depends who wrote the pieces, in a male/female split it's pretty
>sad that it had to be that way) and went by what the Grand Jury would
>know about the case.
Thanks for doing the research, Leon. One thing is interesting,
though. The only person we know has no reason (that we know of) to
lie is the limo driver. Obviously, we cannot know whether the
Stevens, Courtnall, Ciccarelli, Sheehy or the girl are telling the
full truth.
Since the limo driver believes there was no forced sex/rape, I'm more
inclined to believe this. If the limo driver had no comment or said
he couldn't say, it would be hard to say anything one way or another.
But the following:
>But the driver of a limousine in which the alleged incident
>occurred said he told prosecutors that he doubts her
>allegations even though he overheard the three men say they
>all had sexual relations with her.
>
>'When I heard `rape' or forced whatever, I have to disagree,'
>said Mr. Valentine, who talked with reporters after leaving
>the U.S. Attorney's Office. "I can say with no problem that
>a rape - when someone is forced to do something against
>their will - is absolutely out of the question."
and
>"I then pulled away from Champions," Mr. Valentine said. "I
>drove around the corner to another bar, the Third Edition,
>where Mr. Sheehy said he wanted to get out. Mr. Sheehy
>exited the vehicle and the young lady decided to leave, too.
>When she did, she turned to the players and said `Thanks,
>guys. See you later.' She then met some other friends and
>walked down the street."
...seem pretty strong. It seems as though the girl certainly had sex
with three players, but it also seems consentual. It appears unlikely
the girl had consented to sex with one player and the other two piled
on against her will, and she would say something like "Thanks guys.
See you later." More likely we would have something like the limo
driver saying she was very withdrawn and appeared traumatized.
>Interesting side bit:
>
>The Washington Post last month quoted sources as saying
>Kypreos told investigators, before visiting the grand jury,
>that he had stepped into the limousine with a bucket of
>chicken, but left when he saw the girl struggling with the
>players.
>
>"These statements were incorrect. I neither observed what
>was reported, nor did I ever make such a statement to
>investigators."
>
>A source close to the investigation said yesterday that
>Kypreos told the grand jury that he stepped inside the
>limousine and saw the girl inside laughing and joking with
>the players. Kypreos then left the limousine to get a bucket
>of chicken and when he returned, saw no indication that the
>girl was being forced to do anything against her will, the
>source said Kypreos told the jurors.
Seems like a little bit of evidence to support the side of the
defence. However, Kypreos' testimony is of course weaker than the
limo driver's, naturally.
>MY conclusion? At the most Stevens was (is?) one stupid jerkoff to be
>with the 3 idiots. I mean who hangs out with Dino anyway? If he knew
>the intent or what was going on then he is as much part of the sex as
>the other three. If he knew that the girl consented to ONE player and
>that's what he thought was happening in the limo, then he is still
>stupid but not a participant. If he knew all 3 were gangbanging her,
>then he is guilty, at least in my book.
However, if he thought the girl had consented to being triple-teamed
(this is the sketchy area we simply don't know about), he didn't do
anything wrong. If he knew that the girl had only consented to one
player and that three were in the limo, he is morally (although not
necessarily legally) wrong.
>One thing though, while sex with a minor (In the US it's under 18,
>where I am from it's 16) is a crime here, and definitely a moral crime
>to many no matter where you live, I can't say that it was "rape."
If she consented to sex with one individual and two others forced
themselves on her, it indeed was rape. I'm not sure what you mean by
"moral crime", though.
(I thought age of consent was a state issue. Here in British Columbia,
14 is the age of consent.)
>That was the basis about the case being thrown out by the grand jury.
>They "questioned her credibility and some reports of inconsistencies."
>
>I will never see the guy the same, that's for sure, the seed has been
>planted and I wonder whether it will grow or whither. It certainly does
>not make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/
--
Terrence Chan
http://www.sfu.ca/~tchand/
"It profiteth the wise, to be deemed a fool."
-Oceanus, Aeschylus' _Prometheus Bound_
hooper
> Sex with a minor, even with her consent, is statutory rape. End of story.
>
> I suggest mandatory castration for Scottie.
>
> [SNIP]
You got it -- a couple of Rottweillers and some gravy, toot sweet. :-)
Roger Sherman
>Sex with a minor, even with her consent, is statutory rape. End of story.
>
>I suggest mandatory castration for Scottie.
Not necessarily with a 17 year old...
Danny Clark
<leon_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> The following is my quotes from different papers. After spending 43
> buckaroos I've included the main pieces of the entire issue. I've
> skimmed opinion articles, since we have more than enough here (and it
> all depends who wrote the pieces, in a male/female split it's pretty
> sad that it had to be that way) and went by what the Grand Jury would
> know about the case.
Hey Leon...I know you just spent a fortune on this rape. Care to share
with me? I'd love to read what the friend, and the one who is either a
slut or was raped, said.
I'm just wondering how Stevens was brought into the case for standing
there, while Nick actualy got in the limo with some chicken and came
back, and he wasn't mentioned. Are you sure Scott never, ever even was
alone in the limo with her and the other three.
Just find it odd he was accused by just talking to employees and a girl
while it was rocking. Why not the the employees?
I'd love if you could paste a few my way. Thanks.
--
Danny Clark
GretzkyGrl
He had sex with a 17 year old under more than dubious circumstances. Do we
have to discuss this further?
He's a pig and a felon, just not convicted. End of story.
Gretz...@aol.com
894 goals & 1,963 assists
Roger Sherman
Why bother, Danny? Are you going to change your opinion in the
slightest if there is no mention of Stevens being in the limo?
Danny Clark
gretz...@aol.com (GretzkyGrl) wrote:
Wierd point- It was the young girls fault. They attack these sports
stars and musicians constantly. They get what they deserve..they want
it.
Better counter point- It was the players fault. They are older, wiser
and taking advantage of a young hormone filled teenager.
Rog point- I'm not saying he's guilty...or innocent...blah...musicians
see this...only on ice...blah...go Devils
Kypreos's point- "How can I eat my chicken looking at Steven's ass?"
--
Danny Clark
Roger Sherman
>I can't believe you guys are quibbling about this?
>
>He had sex with a 17 year old under more than dubious circumstances. Do we
>have to discuss this further?
You certainly need discuss no further...I personally don't either. But
plenty of men in their early 20s have sex with 17 year olds...and even
that part of the story hasn't come up positive...though Leon is doing
his best to get all the newspaper reports, regardless of the cost.
Roger Sherman
<mrp...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>In article <20010111194844...@ng-mf1.aol.com>,
>gretz...@aol.com (GretzkyGrl) wrote:
>
>> I can't believe you guys are quibbling about this?
>>
>> He had sex with a 17 year old under more than dubious circumstances. Do
>> we
>> have to discuss this further?
>>
>> He's a pig and a felon, just not convicted. End of story.
>>
>> Gretz...@aol.com
>> 894 goals & 1,963 assists
>
>Wierd point- It was the young girls fault. They attack these sports
>stars and musicians constantly. They get what they deserve..they want
>it.
Dude, fuck you. I never said anything like that.
Danny Clark
<r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote:
Absloutely. He should not of been there, but why implicate the guy if he
was just talking to some workers? Makes no sense, and if he indeeed was
only doing that, then he will get an apology from you. Fair enough?
Actually, I wanted to post up a scenerio of the evening. Piece together
the lurid details and offer my viewpoint on exactly what happened. You
see Rog, I'm a professional healer. By finding out what happened, I
could possibly help you deal with this horrible event. Your denial must
be met head on. I offer the following 6 step program.
1- Have a girl
2- Have a girl...if it was a boy
3- Have a girl...if you now have 2 boys
4- Have a girl...if you now have 3 boys
5- Wait until your girl is 17. See how mixed up they are
6- Don't allow her to go near any musician or Devil players
There. You are now graduated from my extensive class.
--
Danny Clark
Danny Clark
<r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote:
In 1990...Scott the rapist was not in his early 20's. And I know Dino
wasn't...nor Sheehy. 11 years ago would make Scott like 27ish. You tell
me I twist the story...well guess what Ringo, I twist for a laugh. You
twist as a homer.
And even that story has Stevens implicated and accused by the little
girl...the ones you see every day as a traveling music man...and can say
that there are many of them latching onto you music men. This...no
twisting now... sounds as though you mean it could be the girls fault.
Finally, Leon has already researched it...and while it only makes
mention of Stevens standing there, he still feels that is fucked up.
As GG says....there shouldn't even be anything more then a "Stevens
fucked up and what he did is _really_ fucked up"....but not for you Rog.
Oh... homer boy...a hearty Fuck you back to you.
--
Danny Clark
hooper
> [SNIP]
>
>
> 1- Have a girl
> 2- Have a girl...if it was a boy
> 3- Have a girl...if you now have 2 boys
> 4- Have a girl...if you now have 3 boys
> 5- Wait until your girl is 17. See how mixed up they are
> 6- Don't allow her to go near any musician or Devil players
>
> There. You are now graduated from my extensive class.
A BA in BS via Rape Pharmacology (and Hockey) 302.
I took that class ;-)
Roger Sherman
<mrp...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>In article <6vls5t4eru4knjat3...@4ax.com>, Roger Sherman
><r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12 Jan 2001 00:48:44 GMT, gretz...@aol.com (GretzkyGrl) wrote:
>>
>> >I can't believe you guys are quibbling about this?
>> >
>> >He had sex with a 17 year old under more than dubious circumstances. Do
>> >we
>> >have to discuss this further?
>>
>> You certainly need discuss no further...I personally don't either. But
>> plenty of men in their early 20s have sex with 17 year olds...and even
>> that part of the story hasn't come up positive...though Leon is doing
>> his best to get all the newspaper reports, regardless of the cost.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >He's a pig and a felon, just not convicted. End of story.
>> >
>> >Gretz...@aol.com
>> >894 goals & 1,963 assists
>>
>
>
>In 1990...Scott the rapist was not in his early 20's. And I know Dino
>wasn't...nor Sheehy. 11 years ago would make Scott like 27ish. You tell
>me I twist the story...well guess what Ringo, I twist for a laugh. You
>twist as a homer.
Was it 1990? I didn't look at the dates on the newspaper articles you
or Leon posted. Someone mentioned early 20s earlier in one of these
threads, and that just stayed with me...
And I don't twist as anything in this instance. All I'm doing is
reserving judgement.
>
>And even that story has Stevens implicated and accused by the little
>girl...the ones you see every day as a traveling music man...and can say
>that there are many of them latching onto you music men. This...no
>twisting now... sounds as though you mean it could be the girls fault.
Absolutely. Could be. Or could not be. Get it yet?
>
>Finally, Leon has already researched it...and while it only makes
>mention of Stevens standing there, he still feels that is fucked up.
>
>As GG says....there shouldn't even be anything more then a "Stevens
>fucked up and what he did is _really_ fucked up"....but not for you Rog.
Because I don't know what he did...and Leons article searching shows
he may not have done a thing.
Danny Clark
<r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote:
> Absolutely. Could be. Or could not be. Get it yet?
The girls fault? This is where I find you to be a jack ass.
Get it?
--
Danny Clark
David Glantz
disturbed as the next guy about it, but let the facts flow.
-D.
--
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like an apple.
Clark Baubles
"Roger Sherman" <r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote in message
news:vfps5tolnfq0vuqdu...@4ax.com...
> Was it 1990? I didn't look at the dates on the newspaper articles you
> or Leon posted. Someone mentioned early 20s earlier in one of these
> threads, and that just stayed with me...
>
That was me. My mistake as I thought the incident took place earlier. He
was 26 at the time.
-C
Roger Sherman
wrote:
OK, does anyone know if this incident was reported at the same time it
occured, or was there a gap in between? I thought Stevens was a St
Louis Blue when he was 26...
>
>-C
>
Clark Baubles
I believe he was picked up by St. Louis that same summer.
-C
Roger Sherman
wrote:
>
>"Roger Sherman" <r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote in message
>news:bfus5tgclvhqpvteq...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:00:33 GMT, "Clark Baubles" <cbau...@home.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Roger Sherman" <r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote in message
>> >news:vfps5tolnfq0vuqdu...@4ax.com...
>> >> Was it 1990? I didn't look at the dates on the newspaper articles you
>> >> or Leon posted. Someone mentioned early 20s earlier in one of these
>> >> threads, and that just stayed with me...
>> >>
>> >
>> >That was me. My mistake as I thought the incident took place earlier.
>He
>> >was 26 at the time.
>> >
>>
>> OK, does anyone know if this incident was reported at the same time it
>> occured, or was there a gap in between? I thought Stevens was a St
>> Louis Blue when he was 26...
>>
>>
>
>I believe he was picked up by St. Louis that same summer.
>
>
>-C
>
Right...OK, that makes sense...he was aquired by the Devils when he
was 27, the following off season.
Mark Dodd
those articles, thanks to Danny's suggestion, and I gotta say it was
pretty discouraging. I was going to wait until the family had retired and
start some reading on my own but your summary sort of addressed and made
sense (to the extent sense can be made) of it all. While it is small
relief that he wasn't inside the van, it's still discouraging as he
clearly was a participant in some form. I thought you laid it all out
quite logically. I agree with you that it's kinda hard to look at the guy
the same way....It's probably good that I am taking a break right about
now. (BTW, did you see that article that apparently *no* Caps fans
called up to the franchise to complain about the behavior.)
Danny Clark
<r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote:
> Right...OK, that makes sense...he was aquired by the Devils when he
> was 27, the following off season.
But he was a young 26.
--
Danny Clark
Mark Dodd
zubov wrote:
> Sex with a minor, even with her consent, is statutory rape.
Something like 60% of 17 year olds are sexually active. I don't know the
age of concent in New Jersey or New York. I believe that 17 was the age of
concent in North Carolina.
> End of story.
>
> I suggest mandatory castration for Scottie.
At least according to what Leon was able to pull from the Washington Post
articles, Stevens was the one of the four who *didn't* have sex with her.
The fact though that he was standing outside the van while it was rockin'
presumably as a guard doesn't put him on much better ground.
Mark Dodd
Danny Clark wrote:
Whatever you think Danny, you have to be fair that we want to know the
truth as much as you do...and go from there. You get kudos for making the
trip to the Washington Post site and retrieving it for discussion when I
asked for some proof. I like that in a man.
Leon Keylin
Roger Sherman <r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:56:09 -0500, Danny Clark
> <mrp...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <20010111194844...@ng-mf1.aol.com>,
> >gretz...@aol.com (GretzkyGrl) wrote:
> >
> >> I can't believe you guys are quibbling about this?
> >>
> >> He had sex with a 17 year old under more than dubious
circumstances. Do
> >> we
> >> have to discuss this further?
> >>
> >> He's a pig and a felon, just not convicted. End of story.
> >>
> >> Gretz...@aol.com
> >> 894 goals & 1,963 assists
> >
> >Wierd point- It was the young girls fault. They attack these sports
> >stars and musicians constantly. They get what they deserve..they
want
> >it.
>
> Dude, fuck you. I never said anything like that.
Now you've done it, he will remember that for the next 4 years. :P
Mark Dodd
GretzkyGrl wrote:
> I can't believe you guys are quibbling about this?
I actually thought we made some serious progress. ...and perhaps a
realization that there are lots of shades of grey in this one.
>
>
> He had sex with a 17 year old under more than dubious circumstances. Do we
> have to discuss this further?
I thought we were wasting our time when we were in the did-did not phase of
this discussion. But I'd say this ng has sprung into action into some serious
truth seeking.
>
>
> He's a pig and a felon, just not convicted. End of story.
No question some of us are learning stuff we frankly didn't know, but
according to what Leon has pulled from the Post website, Stevens as a rapist
doesn't look like a slam dunk that was assumed around these parts. Not that
his participation was that removed.
Mark Dodd
Roger Sherman wrote:
The article was dated 1990, just after the Caps bowed out of the playoffs. I
think Stevens would've been about 26 then. I believe when this topic was
first started someone listed it as 1987.
>
>
> >
> >-C
> >
Leon Keylin
Danny Clark <mrp...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Sorry d00d, I've cut and pasted most of the good, factual stuff, but
will answer your questions.
>
> Hey Leon...I know you just spent a fortune on this rape. Care to
share
> with me? I'd love to read what the friend, and the one who is either
a
> slut or was raped, said.
One article mentioned that she was pissed the GJ dropped the case and
the last time anyone spoke to her, she felt she was going to get "the
bastards."
The friend of hers said that she and her friend(the 17 year old) picked
up the Hockey players and split up after the game. She went with Sheehy
to the hotel room, while the girl went with Dino and Courtnal. This is
where their stories get far in between because the girl said she picked
up *Sheehy* and HE was the one she consented with, Dino and
Courtnal "forced themselves on her later in the limo. Another article
said that the girl never went anywhere but saw her friend leave with
one Hockey player. Multiple times interviewers asked and pressed for
more information from her friend and her response was that she could
not talk about it or "no comment."
>
> I'm just wondering how Stevens was brought into the case for standing
> there, while Nick actualy got in the limo with some chicken and came
> back, and he wasn't mentioned.
Actually Nick was mentioned. One article had "A capital player sees
struggle in the limo" which Nick said he never even uttered or saw
anything. Makes me believe he saw too much, blurted it out and then
took it back. After all, it seems he got in to the car at the time when
the "act" took place.
> Are you sure Scott never, ever even was
> alone in the limo with her and the other three.
Not one article mentioned that, as a matter of fact when she went to
the police Stevens was not on the list of players she wanted nailed.
Stevens was picked up by the DA since, as many know, a getaway driver
for the robbers is still part of the crime. Not saying he was or
wasn't. He was never charged by the girl, which makes me believe he
MIGHT NOT have had any purpose of being there other than getting a
ride? But as I've mentioned, if he knew what was happening with 3
players and a minor, then he is just as guilty.
The million dollar question is, did he know?
> Just find it odd he was accused by just talking to employees and a
girl
> while it was rocking. Why not the the employees?
The owner of the place, according to one article that had him intervied
never mentioned who was involved on the Capitals, just stood up for the
girls work ethics and her integrity.
Leon Keylin
cmdc...@earthlink.net wrote:
> Wow, Leon! Excellent research job. I had read the headers of some of
> those articles, thanks to Danny's suggestion, and I gotta say it was
> pretty discouraging. I was going to wait until the family had
retired and
> start some reading on my own but your summary sort of addressed and
made
> sense (to the extent sense can be made) of it all. While it is small
> relief that he wasn't inside the van, it's still discouraging as he
> clearly was a participant in some form. I thought you laid it all out
> quite logically. I agree with you that it's kinda hard to look at
the guy
> the same way....It's probably good that I am taking a break right
about
> now. (BTW, did you see that article that apparently *no* Caps fans
> called up to the franchise to complain about the behavior.)
No, that's not true. :)
One article mentioned that some season ticket holders sold their
tickets, wrote letters vowing never to buy tickets again. Another
article mentioned that Dino (who was the only one NOT traded from those
4) actually called some of these pissed off fans personally.
But yeah, I can't look at the guy the same way. He may be a great
hockey player, and I will enjoy watching him take out players, but the
thrill is definitely gone. After reading God knows how many articles,
this whole thing just left a stale taste in my mouth.
Did I ever tell you how much I enjoy Mogilny? I was thinking about
another #4 Jersey, but that's gone now... 89 WOuld look and FEEL
better. :)
Leon Keylin
cmdc...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
> Whatever you think Danny, you have to be fair that we want to know the
> truth as much as you do...and go from there. You get kudos for
making the
> trip to the Washington Post site and retrieving it for discussion
when I
> asked for some proof. I like that in a man.
WHOA!!!!!!!! I saw him first!!!! Step back, Jack!
Mark Dodd
Leon Keylin wrote:
Aha!!! So now I know why you dropped $43 on the Washington Post!! Not for
some so-called search for truth...but to impress that certain someone.
You cad!
David Glantz
-D.
--
Leon Keylin
PHyatt1962
have to discuss this further?
He's a pig and a felon, just not convicted. End of story.
Gretz...@aol.com>>>>
yep. They used their age difference, (sophistication exploitation), stardom,
ect to a kid. That is what a 17 year old girl is, a kid. Men use power and
prestige to exploit those younger than themselves, just like our about to be
former president.
PH
NEGross
Actually, from the accounts I've seen, he didn't
>He's a pig and a felon, just not convicted. End of story
Certainly appears to be a pig - at BEST, they all are... a felon only if was
against her will.
Believe me, I am not trying to defend ANY level of participation (ie guarding
the door). If it was against her will, he should have gone to jail, even if he
was outside the car the entire time.
Clark Baubles
"Mark Dodd" <cmdc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3A5E9C1D...@earthlink.net...
>
>
.
>
> At least according to what Leon was able to pull from the Washington Post
> articles, Stevens was the one of the four who *didn't* have sex with her.
> The fact though that he was standing outside the van while it was rockin'
> presumably as a guard doesn't put him on much better ground.
>
As the guard, he wasn't going to physically stop anyone from getting to the
limo as that might entail actual fisticuffs. Rather, he would have to wait
until the person looked away, then blindside him.
-C
Leon Keylin
If I were a woman of any age I would be a but insulted. Sounds as if
they don't have any brains or able to control themselves when faced
with a star?
Oh wait, I am a woman... Four 5 years in to fooling all you people
thinking I was a guy...
AUGH, why am I getting involved in politics again? Pitbull, you want to
take over this one?
Danny Clark
<leon_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
Hey Leon
Am I going to get a copy of that 40 bucks you spent? I'm still wondering
what the friend said, and how Scott got implicated by never even going
into the limo.
You could also post it all...opinions and all. I'd love to read the
entire aticles.
Thanks!
--
Danny Clark
Leon Keylin
LOL!
That theory is flawed though. What more vulnerable position than having
your you-know-what in the you-know-where?
{pause}
I guess having your you-know-what in the you do NOT know you-know-what.
Leon Keylin
articles. I didn't save any of them.
I'll go back to the newslibrary and see if I can retrieve my articles
since I paid for them. Will send you anything I may find.
Clark Baubles
Hmmm ... that's an angle I hadn't considered ... and hopefully never will
again.
-C
Michael Proscia
>Was it 1990? I didn't look at the dates on the newspaper articles you
>or Leon posted. Someone mentioned early 20s earlier in one of these
>threads, and that just stayed with me...
Selective memory, rose colored glasses, blind love for your teams colors, yep,
he's got the makings of a 100% bonifide homer.
When that happens, it's hard to take anything you say Rog as being unbiased.
Everything you say I certianly take with a grain of salt, your not helping your
cause.
100%
Michael
"While it is important to win, it is imperative to compete" - Dave Weinbaum
"Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress ... But
I repeat myself" -- Mark Twain
Roger Sherman
>>From: Roger Sherman
>
>>Was it 1990? I didn't look at the dates on the newspaper articles you
>>or Leon posted. Someone mentioned early 20s earlier in one of these
>>threads, and that just stayed with me...
>
>Selective memory, rose colored glasses, blind love for your teams colors, yep,
>he's got the makings of a 100% bonifide homer.
>
>When that happens, it's hard to take anything you say Rog as being unbiased.
>Everything you say I certianly take with a grain of salt, your not helping your
>cause.
>
>100%
>
>Michael
LOL...Micheal, Clark said he was 23..or was it 22. One or the other. I
accepted that as fact. That makes me a homer?
GretzkyGrl
Is winning that important to you?
I'm a big Met fan and the HINT that Armando Benitez was hitting his gf (and it
really is more than a hint) is enough for me to want him cut from the team.
Stevens is a pig.
Mario Lemieux is a pig.
[Insert name of another high profile star that got away with rape because they
were too important to the team] is a pig.
Yeah, they're great hockey players but they are failures as human beings.
I want the team I follow to be comprised of people I would be pleased to be
around. Of course, I realize, you can't know everything, but we can infer.
Clark Baubles
"GretzkyGrl" <gretz...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010112195756...@ng-fr1.aol.com...
>
> [Insert name of another high profile star that got away with rape because
they
> were too important to the team] is a pig.
>
Bill Clinton?
-C
Clark Baubles
> On 12 Jan 2001 20:14:13 GMT, mpr...@aol.com (Michael Proscia) wrote:
>
> >>From: Roger Sherman
> >
> >>Was it 1990? I didn't look at the dates on the newspaper articles you
> >>or Leon posted. Someone mentioned early 20s earlier in one of these
> >>threads, and that just stayed with me...
> >
> >Selective memory, rose colored glasses, blind love for your teams colors,
yep,
> >he's got the makings of a 100% bonifide homer.
> >
> >When that happens, it's hard to take anything you say Rog as being
unbiased.
> >Everything you say I certianly take with a grain of salt, your not
helping your
> >cause.
> >
> >100%
> >
> >Michael
>
>
> LOL...Micheal, Clark said he was 23..or was it 22. One or the other. I
> accepted that as fact. That makes me a homer?
>
>
I said "early 20s", homie... ;)
-C
GretzkyGrl
>
>Bill Clinton?
>
>
>-C
He didn't rape anyone, Clark.
Roger Sherman
>I cannot believe the Devils' fans in the group are defending Stevens' behavior.
> Is winning that important to you?
I'm not, GG. I was trying to say, and quite poorly apparently, that I
can't convict someone in my own head based solely on Danny's say so.
Now it appears something did happen, and also like Stevens was
involved, though not as a rapist. And yes, I find it very, very
unsettling. If Danny says the same thing about Arnott tomorrow, I
won't believe that based solely on his word either. And it has nothing
to do with his being a Devil.
Roger Sherman
wrote:
>
LOL...ya caught me. I guess I just automatically assigned 23 or 22 to
"early twenties."
pitbull
Gene
wrote:
>Wow, Leon! Excellent research job. I had read the headers of some of
>those articles, thanks to Danny's suggestion, and I gotta say it was
>pretty discouraging. I was going to wait until the family had retired and
>start some reading on my own but your summary sort of addressed and made
>sense (to the extent sense can be made) of it all. While it is small
>relief that he wasn't inside the van, it's still discouraging as he
>clearly was a participant in some form.
Well, one report said that the driver testified that all 3 players
talked of having sex with her. Maybe he was standing guard after or
before his turn, who knows.
GretzkyGrl
>
>*cough* Juanita Brodderick *cough*>
Was there any evidence of this? Seriously. I know she said it and while I'm
inclined to believe women at their word about something like this, there was
something less than credible about her.
Michael Proscia
>LOL...Micheal, Clark said he was 23..or was it 22. One or the other. I
>accepted that as fact. That makes me a homer?
No Rog, it takes a lot more then one or two posts. You have a history here,
it's apparent to me, and I think it's becoming increasingly apparent to other
posters as well.
It's too bad Rog, b/c dispite our differences, I kinda still like ya. (but not
in that way!)
Michael
hooper
> pitbull wrote:
>
> >
> >*cough* Juanita Brodderick *cough*>
>
> Was there any evidence of this? Seriously. I know she said it and while I'm
> inclined to believe women at their word about something like this, there was
> something less than credible about her.
"Something less than credible about her," as in she'd associate with someone like
Slick Willy? :-)
Roger Sherman
>>From: Roger Sherman
>
>>LOL...Micheal, Clark said he was 23..or was it 22. One or the other. I
>>accepted that as fact. That makes me a homer?
>
>No Rog, it takes a lot more then one or two posts.
Dood, it takes a lot more than one or two posts to form an opinion
about my posting history, but this was a specific post in question.
>You have a history here,
>it's apparent to me, and I think it's becoming increasingly apparent to other
>posters as well.
That I'm a Devils fan? You got me.
>
>It's too bad Rog, b/c dispite our differences, I kinda still like ya. (but not
>in that way!)
Hey, Micheal, I like you to. And no, not in that way. ;-)
Michael Proscia
>That I'm a Devils fan?
No crime there (ala Stevens history), Leon too is a Dev's fan, yet doesn't get
roasted b/c he presents an unbiased arguement fairly consistantly.
Roger Sherman
>>From: Roger Sherman
>
>>That I'm a Devils fan?
>
>No crime there (ala Stevens history), Leon too is a Dev's fan, yet doesn't get
>roasted b/c he presents an unbiased arguement fairly consistantly.
OK, I can't think of all that many times I've gotten roasted here...I
think I coexist pretty well here for the most part...
But besides that, you clipped what we had been debating, which was
whether or not I was being a homer by referring to Stevens as being 22
or 23. Still waiting to hear from you on that one.
Michael Proscia
>But besides that, you clipped what we had been debating, which was
>whether or not I was being a homer by referring to Stevens as being 22
>or 23. Still waiting to hear from you on that one.
All the Stevens stuff, is he dirty - NO, is he a rapist - NO, is Stevens a
coward / pu_ _ y - NO.Is Stevens a family man - YES. Is Stevens arragant - NO,
was Stevens in his early 20's when the incident happened in Washington - YES,
Are Ranger fans & Madison Sq Garden vulger compared to Devil fans - YES, Are
Devils commentaters homers - NO. I don't make lists of stuff Rog, this is off
the top of my head, I just respond on stuff that I want to.
It's like someone said before, "what are you, the Devils Police?" It's so true,
your approach here seems to be "Defend, defend, & defend Devils to the fullist,
ask questions & look for facts later (optional), if point is true, don't admit
it, talk about Mess's elbows, and post, post, post."
Rog, we one time got into such a long post thread (which seemed to be me vs.
you with other NYR fans chiming in) that you promised never to come back.
I can say, that it's nice to have you back b/c you do know hockey, I enjoy
conversing with fans from other teams, I can listen to unbiased opinions, you
usually don't come accross this way. Too many posts from you where you are
overly partial to you team.
Anyway, it's like I said, it's a history of posts, not just one or two. If that
was the case, heck we'd all be homers. Except me of course.
Roger Sherman
>>From: Roger Sherman
>
>>But besides that, you clipped what we had been debating, which was
>>whether or not I was being a homer by referring to Stevens as being 22
>>or 23. Still waiting to hear from you on that one.
>
>All the Stevens stuff, is he dirty - NO, is he a rapist - NO, is Stevens a
>coward / pu_ _ y - NO.Is Stevens a family man - YES. Is Stevens arragant - NO,
>was Stevens in his early 20's when the incident happened in Washington - YES,
>Are Ranger fans & Madison Sq Garden vulger compared to Devil fans - YES, Are
>Devils commentaters homers - NO. I don't make lists of stuff Rog, this is off
>the top of my head, I just respond on stuff that I want to.
Thats all a smokescreen, Micheal. Lets say I am the biggest homer
there ever was, and all the stuff you listed off the top of your head
there was true (and it ain't, but thats a different 100+ post argument
we can have if you want to waste the bandwidth), the topic at hand was
_not_ my posting _history._ It was the _one single post_ in which I
referred to Stevens as being 22-23 at the time when it turned out he
was 26. Since I got the age wrong as a result of Clark saying he
believe Stevens to be in his early 20's, Ill ask again - how do you
make that to be a homer-ish statement? Not me, the statement that I
made.
>
>It's like someone said before, "what are you, the Devils Police?" It's so true,
>your approach here seems to be "Defend, defend, & defend Devils to the fullist,
>ask questions & look for facts later (optional), if point is true, don't admit
>it, talk about Mess's elbows, and post, post, post."
Focus, Micheal...we were talking about the one statement.
And remember what I said that led to that guy calling me the Devils
police? I said Canada doesn't have any control over US work visas.
You're right though...that is a very homer-ish thing to say.
>
>Rog, we one time got into such a long post thread (which seemed to be me vs.
>you with other NYR fans chiming in) that you promised never to come back.
That was based on something zubov said, and I came back because it was
suggested to me by a regular here (don't worry, he's a Rangers fan) a
month or so after I'd split that I may have been cutting off my nose
to spite my face and I agreed. Had it not been brought up, I wouldn't
have come back. What does that have to do with anything anyways?
>
>I can say, that it's nice to have you back b/c you do know hockey, I enjoy
>conversing with fans from other teams, I can listen to unbiased opinions, you
>usually don't come accross this way. Too many posts from you where you are
>overly partial to you team.
Maybe you're right. Maybe I am overly homerish. I look back at the
majority of my posts (Stevens thread excepted) and I disagree, so what
are you going to do?
>
>Anyway, it's like I said, it's a history of posts, not just one or two. If that
>was the case, heck we'd all be homers. Except me of course.
Sounds more like a reputation built off a couple threads rather than
the total history to me...
And in case you hadn't noticed, you are ;-)
Michael Proscia
> It was the _one single post_ in which I
>referred to Stevens as being 22-23 at the time when it turned out he
>was 26.
Well, it's kind of like a good defense for Stevens to say he was younger, more
immature at the time being 22 or 23. But at 26, it becomes harder to defend
saying he was a 22-23 yr old kid b/c he's not.
>how do you
>make that to be a homer-ish statement? Not me, the statement that I
>made.
I was focusing more on you & your history of dialouge. Again, I wouldn't call
you a homer based on this statement alone, but on a history.
>I am the biggest homer
>there ever was
That's what I said!
>I came back because it was
>suggested to me by a regular here (don't worry, he's a Rangers fan)
Hoop?
>Maybe you're right. Maybe I am overly homerish. I look back at the
>majority of my posts (Stevens thread excepted) and I disagree
Maybe, maybe not, I've been here approx 2 yrs.
>And in case you hadn't noticed, you are ;-)
WHAT?!!??
Roger Sherman
>>From: Roger Sherman
>
>
>
>> It was the _one single post_ in which I
>>referred to Stevens as being 22-23 at the time when it turned out he
>>was 26.
>
>Well, it's kind of like a good defense for Stevens to say he was younger, more
>immature at the time being 22 or 23. But at 26, it becomes harder to defend
>saying he was a 22-23 yr old kid b/c he's not.
Once again, you really have to take into account where I got the info.
I posted on the subject asking how old Stevens was at the time, Clark
replied early twenties, which to me is 22-23 (and 21, but thats
another post). You know that's where I got the idea from, as I've told
you repeatedly. You are really trying to take bits and pieces to paint
me as something that, while in some cases I may or may not deserve it,
here I definitly do not.
>
>>how do you
>>make that to be a homer-ish statement? Not me, the statement that I
>>made.
>
>I was focusing more on you & your history of dialouge. Again, I wouldn't call
>you a homer based on this statement alone, but on a history.
And again, my history had nothing to do with the one post.
>
>>I am the biggest homer
>>there ever was
>
>That's what I said!
Cute.
>
>
>
>>I came back because it was
>>suggested to me by a regular here (don't worry, he's a Rangers fan)
>
>Hoop?
>
You think I'm going to tell you who the guilty party is? There would
prolly be a price on his head in minutes! ;-)
>>Maybe you're right. Maybe I am overly homerish. I look back at the
>>majority of my posts (Stevens thread excepted) and I disagree
>
>Maybe, maybe not, I've been here approx 2 yrs.
>
OK...thanks for sharing...;-)
>
>
>>And in case you hadn't noticed, you are ;-)
>
>WHAT?!!??
>
Have a nice day! :-)
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
>"While it is important to win, it is imperative to compete" - Dave Weinbaum
That's my second favorite sig file line, BTW, behind Glantz's...
Michael Proscia
>>>I am the biggest homer
>>>there ever was
>>
>>That's what I said!
>
>
>Cute.
LOL, I feel I'm caught in this situation here where I'm laughing at my own
jokes. Ok, Rog, are we through here?
>You think I'm going to tell you who the guilty party is?
I just looking to plonk that bastard!
>Have a nice day! :-)
OK Rog, ditto:-)
Michael
"While it is important to win, it is imperative to compete" - Dave Weinbaum
"Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress ... But
Geezer OZZ-Ward
>
Wasn't 40-something year old Sienfeld fuckin an 17 YO,even showing her
off at games and shit? And BTW,What dude would take part in a
Gang-bang.It's kinda Homo if you ask me.I'd be afraid of getting another
dudes Cum on me.Shit even MY OWN Cum disgusts me!
Leon Keylin
Geezer OZZ-Ward
LOL!....I try to, nightly if im not to exhausted.Even if the 'Ol Lady
isn't available!
GO GIANTS!!!!!
Geezer OZZ-Ward
> know she said it and while I'm inclined to
> believe women at their word about something
> like this, there was something less than
> credible about her.
It seems to me Law enforcement has to be careful when dealing with these
issues.Surely if you question Brodericks credibility, escpecially with
"Slick Willy's" track record, you must also raise an eyebrow at these
young chix Trolling Hotel bars for athletes with more than a one-night
stand on there agenda.Did she press a Civil suit? Frankly, i think
having sex with a 17 Yo (consensual of coarse) more "Normal" than a much
Older guy "Dating" one ...a-la Sienfeld.That reeks of mental
immaturity,if not other psychological problems.I dunno, perhaps Jerry
was just after a young piece....
Leon Keylin
Good man... :)
To those that don't, I suggest, "Cleaner Pipes: How I Changed My Life"
By Danny Clark. ISBN#696969-171717
It starts out boring, but it's THE guide on masturbation.