Well, That Was Pretty Disgraceful

[Jim Bauch]

I don't like the Bruin-style "we're losing, so let's goon it up to 'send a message'" tactics any better when the Habs are doing it.

Maybe something happened that I don't know about that provoked all this, but White's two-hander, Bourque's elbows, and Gorges shooting at a guy were all embarrassing. Gallagher was lucky not to get an instigator for his attack on Conacher. In a well-run league, Therrein would be fined for failure to control his players. Fortunately, this is the NHL, and after turning a blind eye to the Flyers and Bruins organizations for so long, even they're not hypocritical enough to take action against the Habs.

Game Four is going to be largely about discipline, at least for the first period or so. The officials are going to be handing out power plays like candy at Hallowe'en in order to settle things down.

Jim

[TheMadApe]

My guess is that Bourque gets suspended for 1 game for elbowing a guy to
the head.

Subban should be ashamed of himself for trying to punch Turris while he
was laying on his back.

Therrien needs to rein this in ASAP!

TMA

[A.J. Bassett]

On May 5, 8:15 pm, Jim Bauch <j.ba...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> I don't like the Bruin-style "we're losing, so let's goon it up to 'send a message'" tactics any better when the Habs are doing it.

It was pretty embarrassing. The whole 3rd period was an embarrassment.

>
> Maybe something happened that I don't know about that provoked all this, but White's two-hander, Bourque's elbows, and Gorges shooting at a guy were all embarrassing.  Gallagher was lucky not to get an instigator for his attack on Conacher.  In a well-run league, Therrein would be fined for failure to control his players.  Fortunately, this is the NHL, and after turning a blind eye to  the Flyers and Bruins organizations for so long, even they're not hypocritical enough to take action against the Habs.

I thought the cheap stuff antics were very surprising, shocking even.
It was very unlike this year's team to so collectively lose its cool
and come unraveled like that. I'm sure there are things happening on
and off the ice that are way beyond our ability to know of or
understand. But something snapped tonight big-time.

As much as I can separate myself from inherent biases, I saw lots of
bad behavior, but nothing, at least based on what my understanding of
the League's grey-defined line of bad behavior, that got crossed. I
don't think anyone did anything suspendable, although I'm wondering if
fines are in order - does the League still use them as punishment?

>
> Game Four is going to be largely about discipline, at least for the first period or so.  The officials are going to be handing out power plays like candy at Hallowe'en in order to settle things down.

The series has basically spiraled out of control since the Eller hit.
The Habs did the right thing on Friday night by serving the Sens a
pretty good thrashing. That should have been the end of it. However,
Ottawa's start to game 3 was incredibly physical - so much so I'm
wondering - simply speculating, that things were said or done that so
infuriated the Habs roster that they took numbers and started dishing
out their own justice once the game was well out of reach in the 3rd.
Again, the 3rd period meltdown was so unlike this team, you have to
wonder what's going on behind the veil.

Anyway, the Sens are definitely in the Habs' head. If you're a
Canadiens fan, that's really bad news.

A.J.

[Jim Bauch]

On Sunday, May 5, 2013 11:14:55 PM UTC-7, A.J. Bassett wrote:
> On May 5, 8:15 pm, Jim Bauch <j.ba...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't like the Bruin-style "we're losing, so let's goon it up to 'send a message'" tactics any better when the Habs are doing it.
>
>
>
> It was pretty embarrassing. The whole 3rd period was an embarrassment.
>
>
>
> >
>
> > Maybe something happened that I don't know about that provoked all this, but White's two-hander, Bourque's elbows, and Gorges shooting at a guy were all embarrassing.  Gallagher was lucky not to get an instigator for his attack on Conacher.  In a well-run league, Therrein would be fined for failure to control his players.  Fortunately, this is the NHL, and after turning a blind eye to  the Flyers and Bruins organizations for so long, even they're not hypocritical enough to take action against the Habs.
>
>
>
> I thought the cheap stuff antics were very surprising, shocking even.
>
> It was very unlike this year's team to so collectively lose its cool
>
> and come unraveled like that. I'm sure there are things happening on
>
> and off the ice that are way beyond our ability to know of or
>
> understand. But something snapped tonight big-time.
>
>
>
> As much as I can separate myself from inherent biases, I saw lots of
>
> bad behavior, but nothing, at least based on what my understanding of
>
> the League's grey-defined line of bad behavior, that got crossed. I
>
> don't think anyone did anything suspendable, although I'm wondering if
>
> fines are in order - does the League still use them as punishment?
>

The league's authority to fine players is limited by the CBA. Unless it's been expanded in the new one, it's largely irrelevant because the maximum dollar amount is so low. Fines to players pretty much just serve the purpose of saying, "well, that wasn't bad enough to merit a suspension, but knock it off, would ya?" Which I suppose might be the message the league wants to send here. But I think the league has better ways of doing that. I have no doubt that the word's going to come from the league to the teams that the powers that be are not pleased that this series has made headlines outside the usual hockey press twice now, and not for anything positive.

Jim

[Mike]

A pretty clear message is being sent to the management of this team
right now; I sure hope they're listening. This team is too small and
soft to compete on a physical level during the playoffs and its been
that way since about 1996. Lets for a minute play a what if game. Lets
pretend that Gryba ripped off Patrice Bergeron's head. Anyone care to
guess what the response would have been? It would have been immediate
and severe and would have continued to the next game. The Bruins would
have left Boston up 2-0 not tied.

There are too many players on this team who are small or are playing
small, hello Mr Pacioretty. He takes shots from an angle that is almost
impossible to score from and why? Because he won't drive the net.
Doesn't want to take a hit to make a play.

Plekanec in game 2 is about 5 feet short of the center line and instead
of skating that extra 5 feet, getting hit and dumping it in, stops short
and dumps it in resulting in an icing call - all because he doesn't want
to take a hit to make a play.

DD - has played 3 games in this series with multiple minutes on the pp
including an almost full 2 minutes 5 on 3 and has 0 shots on goal. When
he's not getting tossed out of the faceoff circle, he's losing faceoffs.
He gets knocked down easily and has not contributed to this team in
weeks. He's too damn small and it is obvious. The great thing about that
is we got 4 more years of his bullshit. I can hardly wait.

This team needs to break from the Gainey midget theory and move on. Its
too bad Bergevin jumped the gun on DD. He's getting a pretty good lesson
right now in why it might be good to wait on players that really are not
going to be in top demand some UFA season. Yes, lock up your big guys
early but DD? We just got rid of Scott Gomez and now he's back for
another 4 years. In 2 years he'll even be more useless than he is today.
Once Eller and Galchenyuk exert their influence on the center position
DD will be our 3rd or 4th line center. Man, he'll be some good down
there won't he?

[John Corbin]

I understand that publicly, the coach had to back his players but i really cannot understand how MT could stand at a press conferance and bold face lie about what happened. Imho, this was all montreals fault for thinking they could bully thier way in the game.

Game 2 showed clearly that they can play well and beat the sens.

I winder if:

1 - the coach laid into the players in private

2 - MT got a call from MB basiacally asking him WTF?

[Gerry]

On May 6, 5:38 pm, John Corbin <johnhabs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand that publicly, the coach had to back his players but i really cannot understand how MT could stand at a press conferance and bold face lie about what happened.  Imho, this was all montreals fault for thinking they could bully thier way in the game.

>----

Well, I don't think they thought they could "bully" their way in the
game, else they'd have been doing it all game long. Instead, they
just showed immaturity and frustration when they got so far behind
again after playing another solid game that they could have been
winning. And the Sens were only too happy to indulge them in their
frustration, and the rage spiral escalated. Still all their own
fault. They should know well enough by now that they can beat the
bigger teams by playing their own game with speed and discipline, but
they keep getting embarrassed when they try to play other teams'
games.

>  Game 2 showed clearly that they can play well and beat the sens.

And Game 1 showed they could dominate the Sens, and Game 3 showed they
could play them level... for 40 minutes+ anyway. Could easily be a
2-1 or 3-0 series lead for the Habs *if* they had a couple other
factors working better (Price vs. Anderson, and better discipline).
But of course those other factors are totally a part of the games, so
down 2-1 is the result.

It is always going to be a silver lining for this season anyway that
it is still a young team with a young core that is going to take some
great lessons home from whatever playoff outcome. It's part of why I
think just making the playoffs is so important for a building team.
They'll see that they need to be on their game, THEIR game, all game,
every game, and just what kind of commitment and intensity is required
in the modern NHL playoffs. Some guys know it, some guys sort of know
it, some guys need to go through it several times to get it, some
never will, but it's only by actually playing these games that all
that stuff can get sorted out.

l8r,
Gerry

[Mike]

I like the points you made in your post Gerry and yes this is a young
team with the silver lining with the exception of Carey Price. He's been
around for 5 or 6 years now and he really needs to step his play up for
me to look at this as a silver lining. If they lose out and he plays
well like he did in the Boston series then yep, silver lining time and
build for the future. But if his play does not pick up, then all we're
left with is one huge question mark and its a worrisome one at that. Is
he able to be that goalie to backstop a good team or will he be a boat
anchor? Until and if that is proven out one way or the other, I'm still
on the fence about this team.

No rebuild, no amount of good or great players will be able to offset
inconsistent to outright poor goaltending. As long as Price continues to
have long stretches of outright stinky goaltending, this team will be
stuck in the mud. To me, he needs to show the team he is capable of
steady goaltending. Its no fluke that once he gave up that 3rd goal the
other night that everything went in the shitter. The team lacks
confidence in him now despite Therrien's claim otherwise.

[Gerry]

I think people might be putting too much on the goaltending. Even
while Price has underperformed the past month. The bottom line is
still that he's pretty clearly *capable* as a goaltender. Can he
really solidify himself as an "elite" NHL goalie, a Vezina candidate
type? I don't know. But I don't actually think that's even
necessary. Aside from Lundqvist now, and a relatively small handful
like Brodeur et co. in recent years, I don't know how many goalies
have really earned that label and carried it. The Red Wings were
winning with Chris Osgood, or the Hawks with relatively mundane Niemi,
now Crawford. I don't personally find that Fleury is "elite". Etc.
You *can* have a successful contending team without having your goalie
standing on his head stealing every game. The margins are pretty
tight in the modern NHL. If you have a good defense and a good team
in general, you can have some pretty mundane goaltending while still
contending, I say. I don't feel like Habs fans usually notice it
much, but lots of goalies let in "stoppable" goals. Even in the
playoffs. The key for the team when that happens is as much in how
deflated the team gets about it as it is about the goalie. Price did
it in Game 1, and where did our guys go? It's on him, but there is
another element too.

I mean, I'd like Price to be an "elite", Vezina contending goalie.
And I would say before the last month I was pretty much "expecting"
that he would be. This path month injects a little bit of doubt. But
even with that little seed of doubt, I can't see him crumbling right
out of the NHL starting goalie ranks like a Raycroft or whoever. He's
still going to be a reasonable NHL goalie, and his bouts of
inconsistency would more likely put him on par with a guy like Fleury
in my estimation.

Now, we of course don't have the team that the Pens do. But they went
15-1 or whatever with Crosby and Malkin out, and don't always have the
team that they do either. And the rest of our team outside the crease
continues to build. We have finalists for the Norris and Calder
trophies this year, finished in top-2 in our Conference, and top-4 in
the whole league, and even if those are half-season overachievements,
they are still "achievements". Add whatever amount of playoff
experience we get here. The prospect pool has been improved the last
couple years and we have 5 picks in the top-70 this year so it will
grow further. The goal anyway has to be to build a solid contending
lineup top to bottom, just like the Pens or Hawks have. You aren't
just sitting back waiting for your elite Vezina goalie to steal a Cup
for you (Lundqvist says a forlorn hello). So if the team continues to
build nicely, I think Price is at worst going to be "adequate" in that
respect, a la Fleury or Crawford. But you know what, really good
teams also tend to make their goalies look really good too, so who
knows what we'll think of Price by the time the team in front of him
hits that level.

Bottom line for me right now, even though I really wished Price had
played better, I don't think it really affects the overall building
program and the value of these learning experiences one bit.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

I think Therrien has made a few tactical errors. I think they need to reduce Markov's PK time, to ensure he has the energy to be productive on the PP and when the offensive flow is in Montreal's favour. Needs to give Galchenyuk more power play time earlier in the game, DD hasn`t been effective cycling the puck nor getting shots himself. Choosing to dress players who are hurt enough that less then !00% effort hurts those down around them (Max Pac - Gionta and maybe Bourque)

[Chuck]

Too add link to who may be sitting tonight http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/blog.htm?id=261

[Mike]

White out - wonderful. Why couldn't it be David "no shots" Desharnais?
Then we might actually accomplish something especially with him off the
pp. Which brings up a valid point in my books. DD has been useless all
playoffs and especially so on the pp, why does Therrien keep going back
to him? Christ, nail his ass to the bench on the pp and give Chucky and
the boys a shot. They could hardly be any worse.

[Gerry]

On May 7, 2:43 pm, Mike <m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> White out - wonderful. Why couldn't it be David "no shots" Desharnais?
> Then we might actually accomplish something especially with him off the
> pp. Which brings up a valid point in my books. DD has been useless all
> playoffs and especially so on the pp, why does Therrien keep going back
> to him? Christ, nail his ass to the bench on the pp and give Chucky and
> the boys a shot. They could hardly be any worse.

I sort of get the fanatical devotion to, say, Gionta. Even if injured
or seeming to play uninspired hockey (relative to his old self,
anyway), he's the capitaine and at least has a relatively longstanding
reputation as a sparkplug and clutch scorer.

Desharnais... much as I've generally liked him in the past, he has
basically been useless since signing that new contract. The Gallys on
the PP would be one start over him. But even Dumont or Halpern might
be decent starts over him just in general useage at times. Dumont
brings some hustle and feistiness, Halpern some savvy. Hopefully this
isn't a sign for the future, that contract looks a bit ill-timed, one
of the few questionable moves by Bergevin thus far.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

My complaint with DD is can he play on a line with anyone other then a healthy Max Pac and be effective? Galchenyuk and Pleks can be effective playmakers regardless who their Hab line mates are. All I have seen from a DD centered line was little effective puck control, no puck movement with a purpose, with any offence coming more from a lucky bounce (crash and bang and being lucky to be in a good spot as the puck is shuffled around the offensive zone with little thought other then hoping it stays somewhere safe)

[Jim Bauch]

Well, the league pretty much got us back for the Game 3 embarrassment. Good goal, Buffalo!

Oh, that bit about needing to pursue the puck to get an icing call? Nah, let's waive it. After all, as Bob Cole said, "wouldn't it be something" if Ottawa got another goal?

Jim