Hmmmmm....
bay...@gmail.com
Posted: December 31, 2009 at 1:24 p.m.
Gerald McCoy | Oklahoma
When Oklahoma takes on No. 21 Stanford today in the Brut Sun Bowl,
there will be a few NFL teams observing the talent on the field. The
Baltimore Ravens will send a scout; the San Francisco 49ers are
dispatching their Director of Player Personnel Trent Baalke; and the
Tampa Bay Buccaneers are sending General Manager Mark Dominik. It’s
interesting that Dominik is attending the game and not Director of
College Scouting Dennis Hickey, National Scout Jim Abrams or another
high-level scouting executive; Dominik’s presence signals a strong
interest in a particular player, and that player is Oklahoma defensive
tackle Gerald McCoy.
The Buccaneers have Nebraska defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh at the top
of their draft board, but I’ve learned that sitting at No. 2 on their
board is McCoy. As it currently stands, the Buccaneers hold the No. 3
overall draft pick, while the St. Louis Rams and Detroit Lions own the
No. 1 and No. 2 picks respectively. It’s almost certain that Suh will
be a top-two draft pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, as will one of the top
quarterbacks, Oklahoma’s Sam Bradford or Notre Dame’s Jimmy Clausen,
which allows McCoy to land with the Buccaneers.
Tampa Bay has some young defensive tackles on their roster, Dre Moore
and Roy Miller, and a couple of veterans, Ryan Sims and Chris Hovan,
under contract. But not one of the four players mentioned has the
playmaking ability that McCoy possesses. Moore has one year remaining
on his two-year rookie contract, while Miller, who was the Bucs third
round pick in 2009, still has three years remaining on his four-year
contract. As for the veterans, Sims just signed a four-year, $8
million contract in 2009 and is due to make just $1 million in 2010.
Hovan, on the other hand, has one year remaining on the five-year,
$17.5 million contract he signed in 2006. At 31 years old, Hovan has
been durable during his time with Tampa, but he’s on the downside of
his career and hasn’t been very productive in the trenches.
Dominik understands the urgency to get a playmaker in the trenches,
and it’s no surprise that he’s in El Paso, Texas this afternoon to
witness the player he covets first-hand.
In addition to McCoy, the Buccaneers will also have an interest in
another underclassman, Tennessee safety Eric Berry. The Buccaneers
secondary has promise with cornerbacks Aqib Talib and Elbert Mack. But
at safety, they could use an upgrade over Sabby Piscitelli, who’s more
of a situational defender. Pairing Berry with steady defender Tanard
Jackson would give the Bucs a solid, young secondary to build their
defense around for many years.
http://www.scout.com/2/933810.html
A win-win situation IMO.
Ron Gibson
>Buccaneers After DT McCoy?
>Posted: December 31, 2009 at 1:24 p.m.
<Disclaimer: did not watch every second>
I wasn't too impressed with what I saw out of McCoy. I saw some
negatives like lack of penetration and drawing that personal foul
wasn't too great either.
OTOH, his counter part at DT went down with a broken leg early and he
had a freshman playing next to him.
Maybe I'm spoiled from all those years of watching Sapp but you just
could not block that guy completely. He ALWAYS got penetration and was
on their side of the LOS even if double teamed. Smart teams that
played us rolled the play away from Sapp.
The conference he plays in worries me too as I think it's become
overrated. The days of killer teams out of Ok., OSU, Neb. are in the
past.
I want to see these two guys play...
Terrence Cody, DT Alabama
Arthur Jones, DT Syracuse
That Stanford RB looks interesting though doesn't he. He's fast and
has the new prototype NFL frame, close to the ground and built like a
bowling ball. He got his yards too.
--
Email - rsgi...@tampabay.rr.borg
Replace borg with com
"Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
james
|Buccaneers After DT McCoy?
Atthis time there is always speculation. Who you have rated high is
not as critical as if you really confidence that the highly rated
player will be there when you draft. That is why you have to look at
other players and not be totally centered on just one.
I would expect the rumors to surface that the Bucs could be looking at
several players. There are several scenarios that the Bucs could go
through and problable all will be explored by the media and
speculators between now and draft day.
I do agree that Hovan is getting old and The two DTs we took over the
past two years are still developing. Unfortunately in the NFL other
than talent, money drives player selection. If the organization thikns
they can get value with what they have then that can afford them to go
in a direction. It is a what if game that is played over and over
again.
james
bay...@gmail.com
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 05:11:34 -0800 (PST), "bayno...@yahoo.com"
>
> <bayn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Buccaneers After DT McCoy?
> >Posted: December 31, 2009 at 1:24 p.m.
>
> <Disclaimer: did not watch every second>
>
> I wasn't too impressed with what I saw out of McCoy. I saw some
> negatives like lack of penetration and drawing that personal foul
> wasn't too great either.
>
> OTOH, his counter part at DT went down with a broken leg early and he
> had a freshman playing next to him.
>
> Maybe I'm spoiled from all those years of watching Sapp but you just
> could not block that guy completely. He ALWAYS got penetration and was
> on their side of the LOS even if double teamed. Smart teams that
> played us rolled the play away from Sapp.
>
> The conference he plays in worries me too as I think it's become
> overrated. The days of killer teams out of Ok., OSU, Neb. are in the
> past.
>
> I want to see these two guys play...
>
> Terrence Cody, DT Alabama
> Arthur Jones, DT Syracuse
>
> That Stanford RB looks interesting though doesn't he. He's fast and
> has the new prototype NFL frame, close to the ground and built like a
> bowling ball. He got his yards too.
>
> --
> Replace borg with com
> "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Actually, I wasn't impressed all that much by McCoy, either, but it
was hard for me to pick up his number on TV.I didn't see the
penetration I was hoping for, which you need in an UT.But someone was
sure clogging up the middle in the Stanford run game....Gerhart looked
to me like a one-back in the Riggins mold; he could be very effective
in the pro's on third downs as a short-yardage guy or a pass-protector
with a threat to run; I didn't see him catch many passes, but that QB
was not too hot for the Indians, er, Cardinal.I am not sure Toby is an
NFL feature back, however, as HB is played today.But that was just one
game, against a team with a good D & a lot of time to prep for him.
I haven't seen Jones either, but like I've said, there are a lot of
DT's in this draft. Cody, I don't think is going rd.1 due to his
inability to get after the passer. Teams want run-stuffers like him
but not real early in the draft. He looks more to me like a 3-4 NT
than a 4-3 guy.
Flycoon
>
> <bayn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Buccaneers After DT McCoy?
> >Posted: December 31, 2009 at 1:24 p.m.
>
> <Disclaimer: did not watch every second>
>
> I wasn't too impressed with what I saw out of McCoy. I saw some
> negatives like lack of penetration and drawing that personal foul
> wasn't too great either.
>
> OTOH, his counter part at DT went down with a broken leg early and he
> had a freshman playing next to him.
>
> Maybe I'm spoiled from all those years of watching Sapp but you just
> could not block that guy completely. He ALWAYS got penetration and was
> on their side of the LOS even if double teamed. Smart teams that
> played us rolled the play away from Sapp.
>
> The conference he plays in worries me too as I think it's become
> overrated. The days of killer teams out of Ok., OSU, Neb. are in the
> past.
>
> I want to see these two guys play...
>
> Terrence Cody, DT Alabama
Forget this guy. Waaay too fat, he can't move unless there is a
buffet waiting for him.
I know you have a bromance thing for fat dudes, Ron, but Cody is a
morbidly obese dude. If there was a death pool on this years incoming
NFL rookie class, he'd be at the top of the list.
> Arthur Jones, DT Syracuse
>
> That Stanford RB looks interesting though doesn't he. He's fast and
> has the new prototype NFL frame, close to the ground and built like a
> bowling ball. He got his yards too.
>
> --
> Email - rsgib...@tampabay.rr.borg
Ron Gibson
<jon.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Terrence Cody, DT Alabama
>Forget this guy. Waaay too fat, he can't move unless there is a
>buffet waiting for him.
I am just reading the projections. I don't really know as this is the
only time of year I pay any attention at all to college ball.
BTW, watching Penn State and they have a seriously good pass rush. I'm
trying to watch Jared Odrick, DT.
>I know you have a bromance thing for fat dudes, Ron, but Cody is a
>morbidly obese dude. If there was a death pool on this years incoming
>NFL rookie class, he'd be at the top of the list.
Fat dudes rule :-)
>> Arthur Jones, DT Syracuse
>> That Stanford RB looks interesting though doesn't he. He's fast and
>> has the new prototype NFL frame, close to the ground and built like a
>> bowling ball. He got his yards too.
>>
>> --
>> Email - rsgib...@tampabay.rr.borg
>> Replace borg with com
>> "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
--
Email - rsgi...@tampabay.rr.borg
bay...@gmail.com
Look what losing Jamal Williams did to the Chargers' defense.Cody is
actually pretty athletic; he blocked 2 FGs against Tennessee.
james
<jon.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
|> Terrence Cody, DT Alabama
|
|Forget this guy. Waaay too fat, he can't move unless there is a
|buffet waiting for him.
|
|I know you have a bromance thing for fat dudes, Ron, but Cody is a
|morbidly obese dude. If there was a death pool on this years incoming
|NFL rookie class, he'd be at the top of the list.
|=================
For what it is worth the Gators refused to run up the middle with
Mount Cody there. Almost all their runs were away from Cody.
Agreed his weight is a large, no pun intended, issue. He is strong and
may better be suited for a 2 gap system where he initially does not
have to shoot a gap and penetrate.
james
bay...@gmail.com
>
> For what it is worth the Gators refused to run up the middle with
> Mount Cody there. Almost all their runs were away from Cody.
>
> Agreed his weight is a large, no pun intended, issue. He is strong and
> may better be suited for a 2 gap system where he initially does not
> have to shoot a gap and penetrate.
>
> james
A Bates-type DT.
james
|===============
There are two or three teams this year that are running a two gap
scheme. I maybe wrong but I think New England is one. Then thay have
the NT for it in Vince Wilfork.
james
Phonedude
"bayn...@yahoo.com" <bay...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1a8084c9-6c40-4545...@j5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Buccaneers After DT McCoy?
[snip]
Dominik understands the urgency to get a playmaker in the trenches,
and it�s no surprise that he�s in El Paso, Texas this afternoon to
witness the player he covets first-hand.
In addition to McCoy, the Buccaneers will also have an interest in
another underclassman, Tennessee safety Eric Berry. The Buccaneers
secondary has promise with cornerbacks Aqib Talib and Elbert Mack. But
at safety, they could use an upgrade over Sabby Piscitelli, who�s more
of a situational defender. Pairing Berry with steady defender Tanard
Jackson would give the Bucs a solid, young secondary to build their
defense around for many years.
http://www.scout.com/2/933810.html
A win-win situation IMO.
Glad to hear it! The Bucs need to return to their roots and stop trying to
be an offensive powerhouse.
PD
james
wrote:
|++++++++++++++++++++
Well if you are going to go to the playoffs, you better have an
offense that can score more than 15 points a game. That is not going
to cut it. Last time I checked, offenses scored more points than
defenses.
If we go after defense with the first pick, I would rather see a solid
pass rushing DE. White with 6.5 sacks is not that good. White and
Wilkerson accounted for 12.5 of the teams's 28 sacks. In a Tampa 2 or
modified Tampa 2 defense you need to get after the QB more. 28 sacks
is not going to cut it. Asking to much for the DBs to cover with no
pass rush.
just my opinion
james
Phonedude
"james" <bubba@bud.u> wrote in message
news:j635k5pqo2n9liibn...@4ax.com...
Yes. Indeed. Our defense was the reason we lost so many games this year.
Not our offense. All the years we won, all the division championships, the
conference championships, and the superbowl were all won with a mediocre
offense. Not a terrible one, but not one that made people take notice.
Defense, from the first day of John McKay's job, has been the hallmark of
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They have made it a winning tradition, and if
Tony Dungy, who, along with Monte Kiffen (boy do we miss him), raised it to
an art form, had been just a little less restrictive on his offensive
coordinators, he might still be here (along with Les Steckel). We need to
get back on track and stop worrying about "franchise" quarterbacks and
game-breaking wide receivers. A pox on all of them. So what if our WRs
can't get separation. So what if our running game is not all that great.
When we squash the other team's offense we win. We have forgotten that
basic tenet in our lust for big plays from our offense. Like the dog
dropping his steak to bark at his reflection, we have abandoned the one
thing that made us the talk of the NFL, in favor of a will o' the wisp
offense. Let's go back five years. (Of course it would help a lot if we
still had Sapp, Brooks, Lynch, et. al.) We would still have that quality of
players on our defense if we hadn't squandered all those draft picks on
offensive players. When we drafted Williams, it seemed like a good idea at
the time, but at the same time we were all aware and commenting on the fact
that our defense was getting older and slower.
We need to refocus and rebuild our offense and stop chasing the dream of a
powerhouse offense. Homey don't play dat.
PD
james
wrote:
|+++++++++++++++++++++++
First off I am not saying we need a flashy offense that needs to be a
verticle passing game. We need a good offense. Especially the ability
to run the ball. When you go into Green bay in December and January,
you can play all the defense you want, if you can't run the ball and
control the clock then you might as well stay home.
Right now the talent we have on offense wont get us out of the toilet
bowl even if we have the best defense in the league. Look the Jets
have the so called #1 rated defense and they had to back into the
playoffs by having Indy and Cincy rest players. A mediocre offense is
not going to get you into the playoffs no matter how good your defense
is.
We won a superbowl because Gruden brought in 6 offense starters that
were not on Dungy's last roster. Go back and look at the free agent
aquisitions and draft picks. It does not take rocket science to do
that. We were dam lucky that we drew the Raiders as an opponent for
the superbowl. Any other AFC team and I think we loose that game maybe
by a small margin but we losse anyway. Yes we beat the Raiders based
on the fact that three defensive TDs were scored. I dare say that
there has ever been a champioship game where the defense has scored
that many TDs. Everyone here is blinded by that game and thinks every
champioship game can be won by the defense scoring pionts. It was a
lucky game and I would not change it for a minute. But I realize what
it was and am not blinded by luck of the draw.
Every friggin one here loves to point out the offensive mistakes the
Bucs have made. Dam are you so blind to realize that we have made as
many if not more defensive mistakes in the draft just over the past 15
yrs than offensive. Hell over the 33 year history we have only drafte
2 WRs in the first round ever. That is right 2. Seven in the second
round. That is a total of 9 in the first two rounds for the whole 33
year history of the Bucs. We have drafted more QBs in the first round
than WRs. We have taken more RBs in the first round than WRs including
one that refused to play for us. In 2007 we passed on Adrian Peterson
for Gaines Adams??????. Where is Adams now? In 2008 we could have
redeemed ourselves but we took Talib over Chris Johnson!!!! That may
prove to be an good pick after all. In 1999 we took Anthony McFarland
over Jevone Kearse or Patrick Kerney. You want more, the history of
the Bucs bad drafts is a part of NFL records. Keith McCants, Rod
Jones, Eric Curry now there is a beauty. We could have had Jerome
Bettis or Robert Smith.
1995 was probably the best draft the Bucs made in their 33 year
history. Out of that draft will most likely come two HOF in Sapp and
Brooks. And by the way that draft was made by Sam Wyche and not Dungy.
Yes that is right Sam I am. The three best first round picks were
Selmon, Sapp and Brooks with Gruber a close fourth. I will give you
that. That is something that can't be denied. But dam there was almost
20 years between them. Another point I make is we drafted four QBs in
the first round and let another HOF QB go because he was not thought
to be that good. Two of those first rounders won Superbowls for
another team. Two will more than likely have HOF along side their
names. We have drafted franchise QBs or had them in our possesion, we
just have not had coaching staf to utilize their talents.
Dungy is not here simply because of two things. First, his defeats in
the playoffs were by greater margins each successive year. We did not
progress from year to year in the playoffs. Instead we digressed. That
a lone spells doom for any coach. We lost to the Rams, which by the
way had the best offense in the league that year and we had one of the
better defenses that year, to the drubbing we took by Philly three
years later. If my memory serves me correct our highly touted defense
gave up 33 points. The following year we won on the same field with a
better offense and literally the same defense. Second, Dungy was too
conservative on offense, to run orientated. Works great when you are
in Green Bay in December and January. While the statements were made
that Gruden could not develope a "franchise" QB, I think that is just
window dressing. I personally think that Gruden is no longer here, and
this may very well add to the fire against Morris, soley because he
did not want Morris as his DC. By the way Morris was DC for all of
less than 48 hrs before he was named HC. Odd that both Gruden and
Allen were axed within 48 hrs of Morris' announcement as DC? I think
there was some control exercised by the Glazer boys that did not suit
Allen and Gruden. That is just my opinion of how I saw the events
transpire.
My point is we don't need an offense like the greatest show on Earth
offense of the 2000 Rams. You don't accumulate that kind of talent on
a team every season or can keep that kind of talent together for long.
You do need an offense that is capable of making first downs and
moving the chains. Not soley by the run either. It has to be a good
mixture of pass and runs. You need also to keep opposing defenses
honest. You do need the ability to make defenses respact a passing
game. That comes from having a decent QB and receiver talent. That has
been one of the biggest lacks the Bucs have had. We may get one WR
that is fast and good. We never can get that second WR. We ahve always
had the RBs that can catch the ball. We have never been able to match
up enoough WR talent with the RBs. Right now I think we have not one
WR that makes defenses respect our pasing game. Until we improve the
talent offense we are doomed to be an average team that has a great
defense. If that is what makes you happy then have at it.
just some of my thoughts.
james
Phonedude
"james" <bubba@bud.u> wrote in message
[long rant snipped]
Until we improve the
> talent offense we are doomed to be an average team that has a great
> defense. If that is what makes you happy then have at it.
>
> just some of my thoughts.
James: An average team with a great defense had a decade of success.
Including division and conference championships. You want to minimize the
superbowl win by saying we were lucky to get Oakland for an opponent. Two
points -- Oakland was demonstrably the best team in the AFC that year --
otherwise a different team would have made it to the big game. Second, the
Bucs didn't just win the Superbowl, they *crushed* Oakland. Yes, it helped
that Gruden knew all their schemes, and plans, but, yes, the Bucs were that
good. Armed with cast-off quarterbacks and a crew of reject wide receivers
behind a patchwork OL, the offense consistly provided low scoring efforts
while our defense dominated the games.
But all that aside, my point was that the Bucs lack focus. They seem to be
floundering around looking for some magic 'fix' in the way of 'franchise'
players. This has never been the Bucs way. Gruden went downhill and lost
his job because he fixated on finding that magic QB and ignored the
defensive needs. Of course, losing Monte Kiffen was huge, but still, the
Bucs should refocus their thoughts, philosophy, and actions. Refocus hard,
and get back on track. Right now the Bucs have no foundation that I can
see -- it's all day-by-day, individual player, position by position without
regard to any overall strategy.
You can't just wander around looking at the shiny baubles if you want to
win. You have to establish a foundation, build on it, and raise an edifice
to success. Right now the Bucs don't even have a ditch, much less a
foundation. Is there a plan? Or are there 50 plans?
Yes it would make me happy for the Bucs to have a mediocre offense and a
stellar defense again. If Dungy hadn't been quite the control freak, I
really think Les Steckel would have made great strides and the Bucs would
have broken through much earlier and lasted much longer.
And those are 'just some of my thoughts.'
PD
james
wrote:
|============
Well a lot of this starts from the top. At the top is Brian and Joel.
I need not say anymore.
james