Cowboys Roy Williams Is Outlawed
JD(eagles)
http://tinyurl.com/8xh87
What will poor ol slow ass Roy do now?
Cowboys' Williams target of rule change
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com
Archive
When the NFL outlawed the head slap, the synapse-numbing move popularized by
Deacon Jones that rendered pass-blockers dazed and senseless, it didn't name
the rule for the former Los Angeles Rams star.
But everyone knew it was the Hall of Fame defensive end, maybe the greatest
pass-rusher in NFL history, who precipitated the sanctions with the terror
he wrought.
Terrell Owens suffered torn ankle ligaments from this tackle by Roy
Williams.
Nowhere in the NFL officiating handbook, either, will you find reference to
the so-called "Isaac Curtis Rule." It was incessant muggings of the former
Cincinnati Bengals wideout by cornerbacks, however, that forced the league
to deign receivers could not be hit once they were more than 5 yards beyond
the line of scrimmage.
Earlier this year, when the NFL banned certain peel-back blocks against
unsuspecting defenders, few specifically singled out Denver Broncos
offensive tackle George Foster as a culprit. Unless you live in a cave,
though, and never viewed any of the thousands of replays that graphically
illustrate the cheap shot Foster used against Tony Williams, which broke the
ankle of the Bengals defensive lineman, you know whose indiscretion served
as catalyst for the new rule.
No horsing around
Cowboys safety Roy Williams is hardly the lone defender in the league to
employ the so-called "horse-collar" tackle, but his play in 2004 was
certainly the principle catalyst for a proposed rules change to outlaw the
technique. Here are four examples of Williams' use of the horse-collar
tackle in 2004 that were reviewed by the NFL competition committee:
. In an Aug. 30 preseason game, Williams dragged down Tennessee wide
receiver Tyrone Calico on a second-quarter end-around play that was
nullified by a holding penalty. On the play, Calico sprained both knees, and
suffered a cartilage tear in his left knee. Calico had arthroscopic surgery
to repair the cartilage, and he missed the first three games of the regular
season.
. Williams knocked out a pair of Baltimore tailbacks, starter Jamal Lewis
and backup Musa Smith, within minutes of each other in a Nov. 21 game. On a
play early in the first quarter, he horse-collared Lewis after a three-yard
reception, sending the Ravens star to the sideline. Lewis returned for one
play on the ensuing series, but then limped off with a badly sprained left
ankle, which sidelined him for the balance of that game and for the
following two contests. The injury sustained by Smith, a compound fracture
of the right tibia, was far more serious and sidelined the second-year
veteran for the final six games of the year. The play occurred with less
than two minutes remaining in the first quarter, with Williams tackling
Smith after a 12-yard run off right tackle.
. Undoubtedly the most infamous horse-collar tackle by Williams came in the
Cowboys' game at Philadelphia on Dec. 19. Williams pulled down wide receiver
Terrell Owens in the third quarter at the end of a 20-yard catch-and-run by
the Eagles star. Owens was bent back on the play and broke his right leg and
severely sprained his ankle. He missed the final two games of the season,
and also Philadelphia's first two playoff outings, before returning for
Super Bowl XXXIX.
--Len Pasquarelli
And so next week, when owners figure to expunge the "horse-collar" tackle,
as they convene for two days of meetings in Washington, count on the
banishment being known, at least temporarily, as the "Roy Williams Rule."
"I guess that I have arrived," the Dallas Cowboys safety said when apprised
of the pending action against a technique that he has used since college.
Maybe so. But the horse-collar tackle that Williams perfected, perhaps to
excess, appears to be going, going, almost gone. Most observers, including
Atlanta Falcons president Rich McKay, co-chairman of the NFL's powerful
competition committee, think the horse-collar tackle is about to exit the
game for good.
McKay has been around long enough to know the imprudence of trying to
prognosticate the outcome of any NFL vote. But assuming the recommendation
of the competition committee is brought to a roll call in Washington - the
matter was tabled at the annual league meetings in Maui, Hawaii, just two
months ago - sanctions against the horse-collar tackle are expected to be
immediately enacted.
The tackle, in which a defender grabs onto a ball carrier or receiver by the
inside of the shoulder pads from behind and then yanks him down, will result
in a 15-yard penalty. To distinguish between a horse-collar tackle and a
tackle that occurs during close, in-line play, the foul must occur at least
3 yards outside the "tackle box," essentially in the open field.
While Williams is hardly the lone defender in the league to employ the
technique, the fact he seriously injured four players in 2004 while using
the horse-collar move to drag them down in the secondary clearly provided
the biggest impetus for outlawing the tackle.
In each of the four cases in which players were injured by Williams, the
competition committee determined the Dallas safety had ignored the
opportunity to make a more conventional tackle.
"There are some plays, maybe that fall into the gray area at times, that
don't belong in our game," said Tennessee Titans head coach Jeff Fisher, the
other co-chairman of the competition committee. "And we've determined that's
one of them."
The committee concluded, McKay said, there were six horse-collar tackles in
'04 that resulted in serious injuries. The most infamous, of course, was
Williams' much-reviewed drag-down tackle on Terrell Owens after a 20-yard
reception. The play, in the 14th game of the year, resulted in a broken
right leg and severely sprained ankle for the Philadelphia star, and
sidelined him for the final two regular-season contests and the first two
playoff outings. Owens returned, famously, for Super Bowl XXXIX, playing
against the orders of the specialist who treated him, and with two surgical
screws in his leg.
Continued...
In the eyes of most observers, the tackle against Owens will forever serve
as the incident that most affected the competition committee and forced a
review of the technique. But it was not the only horse-collar tackle that
resulted in a debilitating injury.
San Diego wide receiver Reche Caldwell is still rehabilitating from the torn
right anterior cruciate ligament he sustained last Oct. 17, when he was
tackled by Atlanta Falcons defensive back Aaron Beasley.
"It's like you're stopped in your tracks, first off, and then yanked back
(violently)," said Caldwell, recalling the tackle that knocked him out for
the final six games of the season. "The (torque) imposed on your body, with
you going one way and then suddenly pulled the opposite direction and then
down, is just too much."
In a league where players and coaches annually insist little is new under
the sun, the horse-collar tackle isn't exactly a technique recently
introduced. But there has been a convergence of events . the increased use
of the horse-collar move in a league where form tackling is clearly a
diminished skill, the recent spate of serious injuries, and the NFL's
diligence in matters related to player safety . that directed new focus to
it.
As with all rules changes, three-quarters of the NFL's 32 owners must vote
for the horse-collar sanction for it to be approved. It appeared in March,
at the meetings in Maui, that there were sufficient votes to adopt the rule.
But the issue was tabled because there were still some issues with the
language of the rule and the owners and the committee felt the verbiage
needed to be refined.
Cowboys coach Bill Parcells, who is believed to favor the horse-collar rule,
was among those who sought more clarification.
"I think all of us are for the safety of the players . but you just can't
indiscriminately pass that rule," Parcells said. "What about the running
back (going) through the line? I mean, are you allowed to tackle him like
that, or are the linemen not allowed to do that, either? Then how are (the
linemen) going to get the guy? The obvious open-field case, like what
happened with (Williams), OK, we want to protect the player, but how is that
going to be officiated? To just say 'no horse collar at all,' that includes
a lot of things."
McKay acknowledged the issue of the horse-collar tackle wasn't brought to
the attention of the competition committee until just before the March
league meetings, and thus did not receive as much review by the group as
some other matters. It was not, for instance, discussed at the pre-draft
scouting combine in February, where the committee typically huddles, and
where rules changes often originate.
"It came to us sort of late in the going," McKay said. "So, in that sense,
maybe it was better that it was (originally) tabled. We've had more time to
tighten the language, and to take any ambiguity out of it. If you read the
rule as it is now, and as it will be presented to the owners, it's pretty
clear that it applies to open-field tackles. There shouldn't be any
questions about that."
Even to this day, the competition committee has never spoken to Williams
about the play. Still, the league appears poised to move forward with the
horse-collar moratorium.
And Williams, a three-year veteran and former first-round draft choice,
seems prepared to become the latest player to have his name unofficially
affixed to a rules change. He also is resigned to having to alter at least
one technique in his tackling repertoire.
Continued...
"It doesn't bother me, but I think it's a crazy rule," Williams told the
Dallas Morning News. "If an offensive player beats you, what other way is
there to bring him down? You can't arm-tackle guys, because they're too big,
too fast. There's only one open place to grab and bring him down if he's
running away from you.
"Is it fair? No. But rules are rules. I'll deal with it."
Tony Nichols
"JD(eagles)" <JDea...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2Z-dnVW_iIN...@adelphia.com...
Same question I asked when TO announced
he was holding out.
roywilliams31dallas
\
BWHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
How great it is to be so physically intimidating that the NFL has to
intervene. This is so great.... cry you sissies cry.
Midnite Green
Tony Nichols wrote:
> "JD(eagles)" <JDea...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:2Z-dnVW_iIN...@adelphia.com...
> > From ESPN:
> > http://tinyurl.com/8xh87
> >
> > What will poor ol slow ass Roy do now?
>
> Same question I asked when TO announced
> he was holding out.
>
>
?
Midnite Green
<snip>
Rick Y
news:2Vxje.11932$i42....@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
>
> "JD(eagles)" <JDea...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:2Z-dnVW_iIN...@adelphia.com...
>> From ESPN:
>> http://tinyurl.com/8xh87
>>
>> What will poor ol slow ass Roy do now?
>
> Same question I asked when TO announced
> he was holding out.
Yeah, what will he do? Now he'll have to come up with a new innovative
cheap shot, but being the artist that he is, I'm sure he'll figure it out.
Rick
Rick Y
news:%Pyje.102894$hu5....@tornado.texas.rr.com:
It's called "cheap", moron...not "intimidating". HTHs
Rick
JD(eagles)
"Rick Y" <nu...@business.com> wrote in message
news:Xns965D4FEA1...@199.45.49.11...
Williams will be out of the league in two years. They just outlawed
the only way he can tackle. Without a doubt, the WORST tackler
at Safety in the NFL.
Scott Petty
tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
"JD(eagles)" <JDea...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3MudndPpyN5...@adelphia.com...
Tim
> there to bring him down? You can't arm-tackle guys, because they're
too big,
> too fast. There's only one open place to grab and bring him down if
he's
> running away from you.
> "Is it fair? No. But rules are rules. I'll deal with it."
If he doesn't know what he's now going to do, it sounds like he's going
to deal with it by making fewer tackles. At least until he learns to
go for the legs. Even I know how to tackle that way. Let's see if Roy
can wrap his head around that concept.
Tim
Buddude197
"Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
> maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never misses
> tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>
Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of the best
angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the sideline and
wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut in he breaks out his
needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
Scott Petty
"Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
Dawk is good but you guys act like he's a god. Roy is much better than any
of you idiots in this NG would ever admit to giving him credit for. All I
know is I saw Dawk miss a lot of tackles in the SB. ...take it for what it's
worth, I'm sure as an Iggle fan you'll ignore it.
geotek
"It doesn't bother me, but I think it's a crazy rule," Williams told the
Dallas Morning News. "If an offensive player beats you, what other way is
there to bring him down? You can't arm-tackle guys, because they're too big,
too fast. There's only one open place to grab and bring him down if he's
running away from you.
"Is it fair? No. But rules are rules. I'll deal with it."
Apparently Roy is getting BEAT a lot!!!!!
geotek
"JD(eagles)" <JDea...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2Z-dnVW_iIN...@adelphia.com...
Tony Nichols
Cheap shot ? It was a legal tackle. Besides. No
Eagle fan should be talking about cheap shot having
rooted for a guy named Andre Waters.
Tony Nichols
It was a fair tackle, fool. Otherwise he would have been
fined.
Tony Nichols
Andre Waters anyone ?
Tony Nichols
"Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
>
I wonder how Dawkins would fair if the Eagles didn't blitz
so much?
Tony Nichols
dmor
In the first place, the word is "fare." In the second place, the Eagles
don't blitz nearly as much as people would think. Dawk would be great
wherever he played - although his best years are behind him.
dmor
I agree with all the posts that say you're an idiot.
Rick Y
Obviously there is a difference between "cheap" and "illegal" otherwise
they wouldn't have needed a special rule to penalize those who do it. It's
a tackle that anyone could've done legally up until this year, yet somehow
only a few punks in the league have the blatent disregard for the health of
their fellow players to make that tackle. At least I acknowledge that
Andre Waters was a cheapshot. You know it wouldn't hurt for you to pony up
and do the same with Williams. You know damned well if he were an Eagle,
you would have been all over his character. Hypocrite.
Rick
Rick Y
It wasn't a fair tackle, otherwise they wouldn't have had to make a rule to
penalize those cheap shot artists who could care less if they put a player
in the hospital. It's a matter of respect and integrity, neither of which
Williams has any familiarity with, moron.
Rick
Rick Y
Do you think you quoting the obvious somehow vindicates Roy Williams? What
a dolt.
Rick
Rick Y
Are you really that stupid? It's like asking if Clinton would've had blow
jobs if Monica Lewinsky hadn't been an intern in the White House.
Rick
JD(eagles)
"dmor" <d...@scram.ssg> wrote in message
news:CfRje.14876$CR5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Dawkins only blitzes about once a game.
dmor
You have to be careful when talking about numbers with Tooney - even if
the number is one. It just confuses the guy.
Scott Petty
saying a lot. There was nothing maliscious in any of those tackles. It was
in the guidelines of the rules are they are. I understand your groping for
the 'cheap shot artist' excuse, the Iggles have had so many of them in their
past. For you to sit there and say that it was a dirty play is simply not
watching the game without your green colored glasses on. Get a hint
dumbass. Most of these players, unlike the old days, are friends off the
field and the last thing that they want to happen is to cause an injury to
another player. So when you start talking about respect and intergrity you
dumb fuck, know what you are talking about. You guys sound like a bunch of
crying bithes.
> Rick
>
EL4
"dmor" <d...@scram.ssg> wrote in message
Wouldn't that include all of Tony's posts?
dmor
Yes, reading between the lines of all of Tooney's posts, they do say
that he's an idiot.
Rick Y
Nothing malicious?
It was in the guidelines of the rules are they are. I
> understand your groping for the 'cheap shot artist' excuse, the Iggles
> have had so many of them in their past. For you to sit there and say
> that it was a dirty play is simply not watching the game without your
> green colored glasses on.
Get a hint dumbass. Most of these players,
> unlike the old days, are friends off the field and the last thing that
> they want to happen is to cause an injury to another player.
Well, that's where you are wrong. He knew it caused injuries, because he
had caused injuries that put other players out of the game. Yes he knew
it, unless he's the biggest moron in the NFL, and yes he didn't care and
probably even preferred that it caused injury, especially in TO's case.
So when
> you start talking about respect and intergrity you dumb fuck, know
> what you are talking about. You guys sound like a bunch of crying
> bithes.
Sounds like you are the one who's crying, I just call it as I see
it.......Dumb fuck.
Rick
Scott Petty
Like I said, bigger idiot than I thought.
> Rick
Rick Y
I'm sure that everyone who's not a Dallass Cowboys fan is an idiot in your
book, so along those lines, I'm pleased to be considered the biggest moron
in this newsgroup by YOU. Now please just die.
Rick
Scott Petty
no, I won't just die as you say. And no not every fan that isn't a Dallas
Cowboy fan is an idiot. Simply b/c you can't take off your green colored
glasses long enough to look at things objectively, don't try and turn it
around. I love to talk football with objective fans that see things without
the tint of glasses, but you're not one of them. And if you're glad to be
the biggest moron, congrads.
> Rick
Rick Y
I am against all cheap players, yes even when they play for the Eagles, so
don't give me the bullshit cop-out "green tinted glasses" line when you
don't even know me. You are the one who is failing to be objective since
you think horse collar tackling is acceptable, but I guess in your world
taking out players is an acceptable means of winning games. Secondly you
are failing in your level of comprehension since I never said "I was glad
to be one of the biggests morons". But again you illustrate my point that
your opinion is worthless since you can't even comprehend how your invalid
perspective and worthless judgement negates any title applied by you and
even exemplifies counter point argument. Adios loser and please fell free
to go back to your pitiful loser group. Troll.
Rick
Scott Petty
you cry....oh you're a troll. God, it's so damn comical, you can see it
coming. And to answer your post, I don't see a horsecollar tackle as being
a dirty play. I fail to see how a few injuries justify the rule change.
Injuries are part of the game, if you can't deal with that, go put on your
skirt and play another sport. It's always sad when a players career is
prematurely ended, but it's part of the game. I feel more sorry for the
Dennis Byrds of the world that have far more serious issues to deal with
then whether or not they will play football again. Somehow I get the
feeling if Dawkins were the subject of a rule change then you wouldn't be so
quick to take up this arguement, my stance doesn't rest of the color of the
player's jersey, but whether or not I think it's a bad rule....and I simply
think it's a bad rule. But what I really have a problem with is dumbfucks
like you claiming that Roy is a dirty player, simply b/c he's making a
tackle that is *legal*.
Rick Y
"Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message news:Iz6ke.21310
> what is it with you dumb fucks in this NG that you can't prove your point
so
> you cry....oh you're a troll.
PLONK
Scott Petty
"Rick Y" <ryou...@verizondotnet.net> wrote in message
news:EV6ke.8278$6d.7680@trnddc02...
*wahhhhh* You fag.
Buddude197
"Tony Nichols" <bass2y...@marcusmiller.com> wrote in message
news:SZQje.8676$zd5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
He would fare fine, chiefly because he's a primary blitzer and spending more
time in the secondary wouldn't hurt as he'd be taking fewer hits from RB's
and FB's on the way to the QB. That said, all things being equal, which of
those two would you want in coverage, Roy or Dawkins? Be honest, if you have
a WR streaking down the field, which of the two do you want back there?
Cowboy fans can talk about run support all they want, it's mostly a LBs job
to begin with. Dawk can handle his own there, but as a DB who do you, or any
of the Cowboy fans really want to see in coverage or pass support?
Buddude197
Scott Petty wrote:
> Rick you have got to be the biggest fucking moron on this NG and that's
> saying a lot. There was nothing maliscious in any of those tackles. It
> was in the guidelines of the rules are they are. I understand your
> groping for the 'cheap shot artist' excuse, the Iggles have had so many of
> them in their past. For you to sit there and say that it was a dirty play
> is simply not watching the game without your green colored glasses on.
> Get a hint dumbass. Most of these players, unlike the old days, are
> friends off the field and the last thing that they want to happen is to
> cause an injury to another player. So when you start talking about
> respect and intergrity you dumb fuck, know what you are talking about.
> You guys sound like a bunch of crying bithes.
>
>> Rick
>>
Two thoughts: One, I've never said the play that injured TO or the dude from
the Panthers was a "cheap shot", it was legal and an age old method of
bringing a guy down when you were beaten. The horse collar tackle is a last
resort for a desperate player about to get beaten. My point of argument has
always been, why does Roy seem to need to rely on the horsecollar more than
most? He put three guys out this year, all by the same method of tackling.
For a "great" player to rely on a last resort so often seems to be a bit
contradictory.
Two, as much as I hate playing grammar police, please for the love of God
don't include a misspelling of the word 'integrity' in a sentence calling
someone a "dumb fuck". Wait at least until a different sentence to fuck up,
not the same exact sentence as the 'dumb fuck' accusation.
Scott Petty
>
> Scott Petty wrote:
>
>> Rick you have got to be the biggest fucking moron on this NG and that's
>> saying a lot. There was nothing maliscious in any of those tackles. It
>> was in the guidelines of the rules are they are. I understand your
>> groping for the 'cheap shot artist' excuse, the Iggles have had so many
>> of them in their past. For you to sit there and say that it was a dirty
>> play is simply not watching the game without your green colored glasses
>> on. Get a hint dumbass. Most of these players, unlike the old days, are
>> friends off the field and the last thing that they want to happen is to
>> cause an injury to another player. So when you start talking about
>> respect and intergrity you dumb fuck, know what you are talking about.
>> You guys sound like a bunch of crying bithes.
>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>
> Two thoughts: One, I've never said the play that injured TO or the dude
> from the Panthers was a "cheap shot", it was legal and an age old method
> of bringing a guy down when you were beaten. The horse collar tackle is a
> last resort for a desperate player about to get beaten. My point of
> argument has always been, why does Roy seem to need to rely on the
> horsecollar more than most? He put three guys out this year, all by the
> same method of tackling. For a "great" player to rely on a last resort so
> often seems to be a bit contradictory.
You're under the assumption that Roy is covering all 11 men on offense. Roy
is a saftey, and sometimes a saftey has to cover up for the mistakes of
others. If you say the defensive backfield last year, you know it was a
clusterfuck, sometimes Roy was in pursuit of someone that he didn't even
have coverage responsiblity on, when you're in pursuit, you get the runner
down by any means necessary. Roy was asked to do too much last year and
Roy's average cover skills are to blame. If you want to turn it into a Roy
sucks/no Roy's great conversation, that's your buisness. My main point of
contention was some idiot claiming that Roy was a dirty player. I didn't
really have an issue you.
>
> Two, as much as I hate playing grammar police, please for the love of God
> don't include a misspelling of the word 'integrity' in a sentence calling
> someone a "dumb fuck". Wait at least until a different sentence to fuck
> up, not the same exact sentence as the 'dumb fuck' accusation.
The grammar thing is not something I go for, really. I am college educated
(no not barber college), but when I'm on usenet, I just shoot from the
hip...sometimes the spelling pays for it. C'est la vie.
Scott Petty
Oversimplification really. To say it is mostly a LBs job is saying that all
defensive schemes are the same.
Tony Nichols
Oh GMAB!!! That tackle has been made time and time again
without injury. If TO wasn't the one injured, no one would be
making a big stink about it.
> At least I acknowledge that Andre Waters was a cheapshot.
>You know it wouldn't hurt for you to pony up
> and do the same with Williams. You know damned well if he were an Eagle,
> you would have been all over his character. Hypocrite.
>
> Rick
Doubt it. The difference between Waters and Williams is that Williams
makes his tackles legally and does not spout off about who he's going
to take out of the game. As for me getting on Williams if he were an
Eagle, I doubt that also. Waters played for a coach that put bounties
on players. Waters being the no talent bum he was, used that to find
a way on to the field.
>
Tony Nichols
>> "roywilliams31dallas" <whatt...@goaway.com> wrote in
>> news:%Pyje.102894$hu5....@tornado.texas.rr.com:
>>
>>>
>>> news:2Z-dnVW_iIN...@adelphia.com...
>>>> From ESPN:
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/8xh87
>>>>
>>>> What will poor ol slow ass Roy do now?
>>>>
> the only way he can tackle. Without a doubt, the WORST tackler
> at Safety in the NFL.
>
And McNabb is no better than Jim Kelly.
Tony Nichols
"Tim" <sos...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1116691423....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> "If an offensive player beats you, what other way is
>> there to bring him down? You can't arm-tackle guys, because they're
> too big,
>> too fast. There's only one open place to grab and bring him down if
> he's
>> running away from you.
>> "Is it fair? No. But rules are rules. I'll deal with it."
>
> to deal with it by making fewer tackles. At least until he learns to
> go for the legs. Even I know how to tackle that way. Let's see if Roy
> can wrap his head around that concept.
>
> Tim
>
Roy does that. You're just another lemming following the
bias.
Tony Nichols
"dmor" <d...@scram.ssg> wrote in message
I'm holding up three fingers. Read between those lines.
Tony Nichols
"dmor" <d...@scram.ssg> wrote in message
news:WfRje.14878$CR5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Tony Nichols wrote:
>
>> "Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:SaKje.19287$iU.5878@lakeread05...
>>
>>>"Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>>"Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>>>>
>>>>>maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never misses
>>>>>tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of the
>>>>best angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the
>>>>sideline and wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut in
>>>>he breaks out his needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
>>>
>>>Dawk is good but you guys act like he's a god. Roy is much better than
>>>any of you idiots in this NG would ever admit to giving him credit for.
>>>All I know is I saw Dawk miss a lot of tackles in the SB. ...take it for
>>>what it's worth, I'm sure as an Iggle fan you'll ignore it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> IAWTP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I agree with all the posts that say you're an idiot.
Your mom is dead.
Tony Nichols
"Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
>
> "Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>> maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never misses
>> tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>
>
> Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of the
> best angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the sideline
> and wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut in he breaks
> out his needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
>
I will give you one thing. Dawkins is a good tackler. And until Darren
Woodson began to slip in the last couple of years, he was second in
my book. Go back and look at the games in which Roy was extremely
effective. You will see a safety that plays incredibly well in coverage and
near the line of scrimmage.
Tony Nichols
Probably because he's older now and would get
winded in games. That would make him suspect
in pass coverage.
Tony Nichols
"dmor" <d...@scram.ssg> wrote in message
news:CfRje.14876$CR5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Tony Nichols wrote:
>
>> "Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
>>
>>>"Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>>>
>>>>maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never misses
>>>>tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of the
>>>best angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the sideline
>>>and wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut in he breaks
>>>out his needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
>>
>>
>> I wonder how Dawkins would fair if the Eagles didn't blitz
>> so much?
>>
>>
>>
>
> In the first place, the word is "fare." In the second place, the Eagles
> don't blitz nearly as much as people would think. Dawk would be great
> wherever he played - although his best years are behind him.
Dead mothers aren't much fun.
Tony Nichols
"dmor" <d...@scram.ssg> wrote in message
You have one mother. She's dead.
Tony Nichols
>
>>
>> "Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>>>> maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never
>>>> misses tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of
>>> the best angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the
>>> sideline and wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut
>>> in he breaks out his needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
>>
>> I wonder how Dawkins would fair if the Eagles didn't blitz
>> so much?
>
> jobs if Monica Lewinsky hadn't been an intern in the White House.
>
> Rick
Or like asking if you wanted your mom in the ground if she was dead?
Tony Nichols
>
> "Tony Nichols" <bass2y...@marcusmiller.com> wrote in message
> news:SZQje.8676$zd5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>
>> "Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>>>> maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never misses
>>>> tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of the
>>> best angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the
>>> sideline and wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut in
>>> he breaks out his needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
>>
>> I wonder how Dawkins would fair if the Eagles didn't blitz
>> so much?
>>
>>
>
>
> He would fare fine, chiefly because he's a primary blitzer and spending
> more time in the secondary wouldn't hurt as he'd be taking fewer hits from
> RB's and FB's on the way to the QB. That said, all things being equal,
> which of those two would you want in coverage, Roy or Dawkins? Be honest,
> if you have a WR streaking down the field, which of the two do you want
> back there?
Honestly, I would want neither unless they were Ed Reed. Niether Dawkins
or Williams have the speed to cover a streaking receiver. Strong Safeties
don't
have that type of speed in general. Free Safeties are better suited for
that. That's
why teams typically go deep on the SS side of the field.
> Cowboy fans can talk about run support all they want, it's mostly a LBs
> job to begin with. Dawk can handle his own there, but as a DB who do you,
> or any of the Cowboy fans really want to see in coverage or pass support?
>
See the above answer.
Tony Nichols
>>>> "roywilliams31dallas" <whatt...@goaway.com> wrote in
>>>> news:%Pyje.102894$hu5....@tornado.texas.rr.com:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> officiated? To just say 'no horse collar at all,' that includes a
>>>>>> lot of things." McKay acknowledged the issue of the horse-collar
>>>>>> tackle wasn't brought to the attention of the competition
>>>>>> committee until just before the March league meetings, and thus
>>>>>> did not receive as much review by the group as some other matters.
>>>>>> It was not, for instance, discussed at the pre-draft scouting
>>>>>> combine in February, where the committee typically huddles, and
>>>>>> where rules changes often originate. "It came to us sort of late
>>>>>> in the going," McKay said. "So, in that sense, maybe it was better
>>>>>> that it was (originally) tabled. We've had more time to tighten
>>>>>> the language, and to take any ambiguity out of it. If you read the
>>>>>> rule as it is now, and as it will be presented to the owners, it's
>>>>>> pretty clear that it applies to open-field tackles. There
>>>>>> shouldn't be any questions about that." Even to this day, the
>>>>>> competition committee has never spoken to Williams about the play.
>>>>>> Still, the league appears poised to move forward with the
>>>>>> horse-collar moratorium. And Williams, a three-year veteran and
>>>>>> former first-round draft choice, seems prepared to become the
>>>>>> latest player to have his name unofficially affixed to a rules
>>>>>> change. He also is resigned to having to alter at least one
>>>>>> technique in his tackling repertoire. Continued...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It doesn't bother me, but I think it's a crazy rule," Williams
>>>>>> what other way is there to bring him down? You can't arm-tackle
>>>>>> guys, because they're too big, too fast. There's only one open
>>>>>> place to grab and bring him down if he's running away from you.
>>>>>> "Is it fair? No. But rules are rules. I'll deal with it."
>>>>> \
>>>>> BWHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
>>>>> How great it is to be so physically intimidating that the NFL has
>>>>> to intervene. This is so great.... cry you sissies cry.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's called "cheap", moron...not "intimidating". HTHs
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>
>>> Williams will be out of the league in two years. They just outlawed
>>> the only way he can tackle. Without a doubt, the WORST tackler
>>> at Safety in the NFL.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Do you think you quoting the obvious somehow vindicates Roy Williams?
> What
> a dolt.
>
> Rick
Says the dolt who thinks Williams was equal to Waters.
Tony Nichols
>> fined.
>
> It wasn't a fair tackle, otherwise they wouldn't have had to make a rule
> to
> penalize those cheap shot artists who could care less if they put a player
> in the hospital. It's a matter of respect and integrity, neither of which
> Williams has any familiarity with, moron.
>
> Rick
>
It was a fair tackle. Otherwise he would have been fined
and/or suspended.
Tony Nichols
> saying a lot. There was nothing maliscious in any of those tackles. It
> was in the guidelines of the rules are they are. I understand your
> groping for the 'cheap shot artist' excuse, the Iggles have had so many of
> them in their past. For you to sit there and say that it was a dirty play
> is simply not watching the game without your green colored glasses on.
> Get a hint dumbass. Most of these players, unlike the old days, are
> friends off the field and the last thing that they want to happen is to
> cause an injury to another player. So when you start talking about
> respect and intergrity you dumb fuck, know what you are talking about.
> You guys sound like a bunch of crying bithes.
>
>> Rick
>>
>
>
IAWTP!!!!
Tony Nichols
>
> It was in the guidelines of the rules are they are. I
>> understand your groping for the 'cheap shot artist' excuse, the Iggles
>> have had so many of them in their past. For you to sit there and say
>> that it was a dirty play is simply not watching the game without your
>> green colored glasses on.
>
>
> Get a hint dumbass. Most of these players,
>> unlike the old days, are friends off the field and the last thing that
>> they want to happen is to cause an injury to another player.
>
> it, unless he's the biggest moron in the NFL, and yes he didn't care and
> probably even preferred that it caused injury, especially in TO's case.
>
>> you start talking about respect and intergrity you dumb fuck, know
>> what you are talking about. You guys sound like a bunch of crying
>> bithes.
>
> it.......Dumb fuck.
>
Hence his point about the green colored glasses, dipshit.
Tony Nichols
"Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:wQ0ke.21275$iU.12779@lakeread05...
>
>
>
>
Yeah!! I doubt he's an engineer.
Tony Nichols
> book, so along those lines, I'm pleased to be considered the biggest moron
> in this newsgroup by YOU. Now please just die.
>
Man!! You are one stupid moron.
Tony Nichols
Tony Nichols
Game, set, match. Rick is a stupid moron who has just
admitted defeat.
Buddude197
"Tony Nichols" <bass2y...@marcusmiller.com> wrote in message
news:Ygike.10707$zd5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
You just flipped Dan the ring finger? Are you proposing?
Buddude197
That about sums up your football prowess. (not to mention your ability to
stay on task) I asked which of those two, I don't recall adding Reed to the
equation. Dawkins, even today at 32 covers better than most Safeties in the
league.
>
>> Cowboy fans can talk about run support all they want, it's mostly a LBs
>> job to begin with. Dawk can handle his own there, but as a DB who do you,
>> or any of the Cowboy fans really want to see in coverage or pass support?
>>
>
> See the above answer.
>
I saw it. I didn't answer the question that was posed, which did not contain
an Ed Reed addendum.
Buddude197
What was that about "green colored glasses"? It seems someone was typing
through those fancy star glasses. "Roy is God" fixing everyone elses
mistakes. I used those two specific plays because in the ones that got both
of those players injured Roy had missed his intial assignment and had to
recover. Both "collar" tackles came when each of the two I listed evaded
Roys angle and were changing direction. He blew it.
> If you say the defensive backfield last year, you know it was a
> clusterfuck, sometimes Roy was in pursuit of someone that he didn't even
> have coverage responsiblity on, when you're in pursuit, you get the runner
> down by any means necessary.
But his angles suck, he's overaggresive in pursuit too often, looking for a
killshot and has to recover. Thats the Roy I saw much of last year. You're
right, it wasn't illegal, just far too common to one specific player.
> Roy was asked to do too much last year and Roy's average cover skills are
> to blame. If you want to turn it into a Roy sucks/no Roy's great
> conversation, that's your buisness. My main point of contention was some
> idiot claiming that Roy was a dirty player. I didn't really have an issue
> you.
>
I only tell the RW31 troll that Roy sucks. That's mostly because I enjoy it.
Roy is a good run support safety and a hard hitter. Not in Dawkins class as
far as a total package. IMO.
>>
>> Two, as much as I hate playing grammar police, please for the love of God
>> don't include a misspelling of the word 'integrity' in a sentence calling
>> someone a "dumb fuck". Wait at least until a different sentence to fuck
>> up, not the same exact sentence as the 'dumb fuck' accusation.
> The grammar thing is not something I go for, really. I am college
> educated (no not barber college), but when I'm on usenet, I just shoot
> from the hip...sometimes the spelling pays for it. C'est la vie.
>
We all do it, thats simply not deniable, but it drives me nuts (and
occasionally to fits of laughter) to see it happen in the exact same
sentence as a stupidity accusation. You do see the irony in misspelling an
intellegence flame, no?
Buddude197
"Tony Nichols" <bass2y...@marcusmiller.com> wrote in message
news:tuike.10718$zd5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Add another and they would be tow stupid morons.
dmor
There he goes again.
dmor
Meet TTZ, the only person on this planet who can who up three fingers in
three separate time zones.
Tony Nichols
It was my right hand, moron.
JD(eagles)
"dmor" <d...@scram.ssg> wrote in message
he's got one up his ass.
Tony Nichols
It also sums up your ability to ask a "real" question. You asked who I
would
want in coverage with a reciver streaking down the field. I answered it.
Niether. Dawk may be a better cover guy that Roy.However, Dawkins is not
faster
than any of the "deep ball" receivers in the league. Put Dawkins on Torry
Holt.
Put him on Marvin Harrison. Put him on Javon Walker. He'd get burned every
time.
Taking hits has nothing to do with it. It does in theory. However, if you
bring up
hits by RB's and FB's Dawk is more suspect because of his age and needs to
blitz
occasionaly and stay in cover-2.
>>> Cowboy fans can talk about run support all they want, it's mostly a LBs
>>> job to begin with. Dawk can handle his own there, but as a DB who do
>>> you, or any of the Cowboy fans really want to see in coverage or pass
>>> support?
>>>
>>
>> See the above answer.
>>
>
> I saw it. I didn't answer the question that was posed, which did not
> contain an Ed Reed addendum.
Dawkins is better in pass coverage. Just as long as it doesent
involve man coverage and a fast receiver.
>
>
Tony Nichols
"When then" I guess that I'll just add you to the pile.
Tony Nichols
I agree with you here. But Roy is only in his third year and he was
playing out of position this year due to Woodson's injury. He didn't
modify his style to that of a free safety or one who needed to play
better pass coverage. His overpursuit was IMO due to him trying
to make a game changing play on defense. They guy was not ready
to be the leader of the secondary.
>> Roy was asked to do too much last year and Roy's average cover skills are
>> to blame. If you want to turn it into a Roy sucks/no Roy's great
>> conversation, that's your buisness. My main point of contention was some
>> idiot claiming that Roy was a dirty player. I didn't really have an
>> issue you.
>>
>
> I only tell the RW31 troll that Roy sucks. That's mostly because I enjoy
> it. Roy is a good run support safety and a hard hitter. Not in Dawkins
> class as far as a total package. IMO.
I think this rule change will help make him a more total package at safety.
>>> Two, as much as I hate playing grammar police, please for the love of
>>> God don't include a misspelling of the word 'integrity' in a sentence
>>> calling someone a "dumb fuck". Wait at least until a different sentence
>>> to fuck up, not the same exact sentence as the 'dumb fuck' accusation.
>> The grammar thing is not something I go for, really. I am college
>> educated (no not barber college), but when I'm on usenet, I just shoot
>> from the hip...sometimes the spelling pays for it. C'est la vie.
>>
>
>
> We all do it, thats simply not deniable, but it drives me nuts (and
> occasionally to fits of laughter) to see it happen in the exact same
> sentence as a stupidity accusation. You do see the irony in misspelling an
> intellegence flame, no?
I know I do! lol!
Tony Nichols
BTW in that game head to head, Roy had 5 unassisted tackles and one
interception. Dawkins had 1 solo tackle and 2 assisted tackles and no
interceptions.
Buddude197
So you flipped Dan the ring finger on your right hand? WTF does that
mean? You do have opposable thumbs right? If you held up the thumb,
index and middle fingers, you'd be flipping him the index finger. WTF
would THAT mean?
Buddude197
Thats a hand.
Buddude197
Okay, so when given a 50/50 proposition, you choose the 0. Got it.
>Dawk may be a better cover guy that Roy.However, Dawkins is not
> faster
> than any of the "deep ball" receivers in the league. Put Dawkins on
Torry
> Holt.
> Put him on Marvin Harrison. Put him on Javon Walker.
Actually, he's covered all of them at various points, including a jump
ball INT on Walker last year.
>He'd get burned every
> time.
> Taking hits has nothing to do with it. It does in theory. However,
if you
> bring up
> hits by RB's and FB's Dawk is more suspect because of his age and
needs to
> blitz
> occasionaly and stay in cover-2.
>
>
>
> >>> Cowboy fans can talk about run support all they want, it's mostly
a LBs
> >>> job to begin with. Dawk can handle his own there, but as a DB who
do
> >>> you, or any of the Cowboy fans really want to see in coverage or
pass
> >>> support?
> >>>
> >>
> >> See the above answer.
> >>
> >
> > I saw it. I didn't answer the question that was posed, which did
not
> > contain an Ed Reed addendum.
>
>
> Dawkins is better in pass coverage. Just as long as it doesent
> involve man coverage and a fast receiver.
>
See, now you finally answered the question as asked. "Which of the two
would you want in coverage"? If Dawkins is better in coverage, then
I'll assume your answer is Dawkins. (I know I shouldn't assume)
Buddude197
Tony Nichols wrote:
> >
> BTW in that game head to head, Roy had 5 unassisted tackles and one
> interception. Dawkins had 1 solo tackle and 2 assisted tackles and
no
> interceptions.
Which tells me two things, 1) the Eagles front seven dominated the game
and kept Jones in check. 2) Dawkins walked off the field having
surrendered 7 points, which came on a turnover shortened field. Dawk
also held coverage on both of Sheldon Browns blitzes, one of which
resulted in a sack, the other an incompletion. What Dawk understands
and Williams needs to learn is to perfect the moment, not the game.
Patience is a safeties best friend.
Scott Petty
I wasn't implying that Roy never makes mistakes. God knows, he's made his
share, but sometimes he gets blamed for others missed assignments. It's the
nature of the position. Saftey, as in saftey valve, as in don't let anyone
get past you. I don't recall who Roy was on in those two specific plays,
but if you say it was Roy we'll go with it. I still think that many of
Roy's problems were due to playing out of position, and Parcells senility in
regards to moving him back when it became clear that Woodson would not
return.
>
>
>
>
>> If you say the defensive backfield last year, you know it was a
>> clusterfuck, sometimes Roy was in pursuit of someone that he didn't even
>> have coverage responsiblity on, when you're in pursuit, you get the
>> runner down by any means necessary.
>
> But his angles suck, he's overaggresive in pursuit too often, looking for
> a killshot and has to recover. Thats the Roy I saw much of last year.
> You're right, it wasn't illegal, just far too common to one specific
> player.
>
>> Roy was asked to do too much last year and Roy's average cover skills are
>> to blame. If you want to turn it into a Roy sucks/no Roy's great
>> conversation, that's your buisness. My main point of contention was some
>> idiot claiming that Roy was a dirty player. I didn't really have an
>> issue you.
>>
>
> I only tell the RW31 troll that Roy sucks. That's mostly because I enjoy
> it. Roy is a good run support safety and a hard hitter. Not in Dawkins
> class as far as a total package. IMO.
The guy I think it gonna be really good is Troy Palo,.....oh hell I'm not
gonna even try to butcher his name, from Pittsburg. That guy is amazing.
>
>
>>>
>>> Two, as much as I hate playing grammar police, please for the love of
>>> God don't include a misspelling of the word 'integrity' in a sentence
>>> calling someone a "dumb fuck". Wait at least until a different sentence
>>> to fuck up, not the same exact sentence as the 'dumb fuck' accusation.
>> The grammar thing is not something I go for, really. I am college
>> educated (no not barber college), but when I'm on usenet, I just shoot
>> from the hip...sometimes the spelling pays for it. C'est la vie.
>>
>
>
> We all do it, thats simply not deniable, but it drives me nuts (and
> occasionally to fits of laughter) to see it happen in the exact same
> sentence as a stupidity accusation. You do see the irony in misspelling an
> intellegence flame, no?
Oh yea. Like you said it's funny and after you do it you feel so stupid,
but everyone does it. I have given up on trying to maintain proper grammar
on usenet many years ago.
Tony Nichols
"Buddude197" <buddu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1116863084.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Jeebus, Joe. You said if there were a WR streaking down the
field. And I answered you. I would want neither. Dawk nor
Roy is fast enough to cover today's speed guys.
Tony Nichols
>
> Tony Nichols wrote:
>> >
>> BTW in that game head to head, Roy had 5 unassisted tackles and one
>> interception. Dawkins had 1 solo tackle and 2 assisted tackles and
> no
>> interceptions.
>
>
> Which tells me two things, 1) the Eagles front seven dominated the game
> and kept Jones in check. 2) Dawkins walked off the field having
> surrendered 7 points, which came on a turnover shortened field.
That shortened field came on a Williams interception. I question wether
the Eagles front seven "dominated" the game. I think they were focused
on not letting Jones and Witten beat them.
Dawk
> also held coverage on both of Sheldon Browns blitzes, one of which
> resulted in a sack, the other an incompletion. What Dawk understands
> and Williams needs to learn is to perfect the moment, not the game.
> Patience is a safeties best friend.
Here we both agree. But there is still time. Williams is 26 with
tremendous
potential and Dawkins is 32 having his best years behind him.
>
EL4
He has to go number one.
Two fingers would mean poopies.
Tony Nichols
That's your wife with her hands in my back
pockets clapping.
Buddude197
Tony Nichols wrote:
>>
>> See, now you finally answered the question as asked. "Which of the two
>> would you want in coverage"? If Dawkins is better in coverage, then
>> I'll assume your answer is Dawkins. (I know I shouldn't assume)
>>
>
> Jeebus, Joe. You said if there were a WR streaking down the
> field. And I answered you. I would want neither. Dawk nor
> Roy is fast enough to cover today's speed guys.
>
See, I knew better than to assume with you. Lets slow this down a bit. Tony
Nichols is starving to death. I offer him a ham sandwich or a peanut butter
and jelly sandwich. Does Tony stubbornly reject them because he wants tuna
fish? You're being evasive Tony, I didn't give you the Ed Reed option and I
didn't give you the "none of the above" option. I plainly said choose
between the two to fill the need of a cover guy. Safeties need read and
react skills more than any other position not called QB, they also need
coverage speed, not stride speed. Now, be honest, which one is it?
pablo
> "JD(eagles)" <JDea...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:2Z-dnVW_iIN...@adelphia.com...
>> From ESPN:
>> http://tinyurl.com/8xh87
>>
>> What will poor ol slow ass Roy do now?
>
> he was holding out.
WTF does that mean?!?
pablo
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "JD(eagles)" <JDea...@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:2Z-dnVW_iIN...@adelphia.com...
>>>>>> From ESPN:
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/8xh87
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What will poor ol slow ass Roy do now?
>>>>>
>>>>> Same question I asked when TO announced
>>>>> he was holding out.
>>>>
>>>> innovative cheap shot, but being the artist that he is, I'm sure
>>>> he'll figure it out.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>
>>> Cheap shot ? It was a legal tackle. Besides. No
>>> Eagle fan should be talking about cheap shot having
>>> rooted for a guy named Andre Waters.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Obviously there is a difference between "cheap" and "illegal"
>> otherwise they wouldn't have needed a special rule to penalize those
>> who do it. It's
>> a tackle that anyone could've done legally up until this year, yet
>> somehow only a few punks in the league have the blatent disregard
>> for the health of
>> their fellow players to make that tackle.
>
> Oh GMAB!!! That tackle has been made time and time again
> without injury. If TO wasn't the one injured, no one would be
> making a big stink about it.
>
>> At least I acknowledge that Andre Waters was a cheapshot.
>> You know it wouldn't hurt for you to pony up
>> and do the same with Williams. You know damned well if he were an
>> Eagle, you would have been all over his character. Hypocrite.
>>
>> Rick
>
> Doubt it. The difference between Waters and Williams is that Williams
> makes his tackles legally and does not spout off about who he's going
> to take out of the game. As for me getting on Williams if he were an
> Eagle, I doubt that also. Waters played for a coach that put bounties
> on players. Waters being the no talent bum he was, used that to find
> a way on to the field.
Funny that Waters was on the field before Buddy got here then, huh?
Waters knew how to tackle, just liked to try and make people think when
they went across the middle. Stay around here enough maybe you will learn
something.
pablo
> "JD(eagles)" <JDea...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:2Z-dnVW_iIN...@adelphia.com...
>> From ESPN:
>> http://tinyurl.com/8xh87
>>
>> What will poor ol slow ass Roy do now?
>>
>> Fisher, the other co-chairman of the competition committee. "And
>> we've determined that's one of them."
>> The committee concluded, McKay said, there were six horse-collar
>> tackles in '04 that resulted in serious injuries. The most infamous,
>> of course, was Williams' much-reviewed drag-down tackle on Terrell
>> Owens after a 20-yard reception. The play, in the 14th game of the
>> year, resulted in a broken right leg and severely sprained ankle for
>> the Philadelphia star, and sidelined him for the final two
>> regular-season contests and the first two playoff outings. Owens
Who is crying? I am laughing at Roy. I like this line from him.
> "If an offensive player beats you, what
>> other way is there to bring him down? You can't arm-tackle guys,
>> because they're too big, too fast."
That is great, he at least admits he is slow and can't tackle.
pablo
> "Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>>> maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never
>>> misses tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>>
>>
>> Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of
>> the best angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the
>> sideline and wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut
>> in he breaks out his needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
>
> Dawk is good but you guys act like he's a god.
No we don't.
> Roy is much better
> than any of you idiots in this NG would ever admit to giving him
> credit for.
What part of the Roy troll thing don't you get, Scott? I mean you know
the shit he comes in here and talks, but you don't seem to be to grasp
why people might trash him a little more. Also is the fact that Roy
Williams the safety is overrated.
> All I know is I saw Dawk miss a lot of tackles in the
> SB. ...take it for what it's worth, I'm sure as an Iggle fan you'll
> ignore it.
I will take it as bull shit.
Scott Petty
It's a flawed question. It's assumed that neither would be able to cover
the streaking WR, so you're asking which one would you want......well,
neither if they're both going to get burnt. Assuming that they are going to
get burnt, what difference does it make which one you have, the outcome is
the same. It's like saying, you're going to get burnt, but would you rather
get burnt with Darrell Green or Kenny Gant (obscure Cowboys reference).
Having said that, I'll give you that Dawk is better in coverage. Not
exactly a badge of honor, but there's your bone.
pablo
>>
>> "Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>>> maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never
>>> misses tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>>
>>
>> Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of
>> the best angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the
>> sideline and wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut
>> in he breaks out his needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
>
> so much?
I don't know..... But his job would be easier because he wouldn't
be left on a island as much. The Cowboys can't blitz as much leaving
Roy out there alone because he can't cover worth a shit. Do you see
how it works?
pablo
>>
>> "Tony Nichols" <bass2y...@marcusmiller.com> wrote in message
>> news:SZQje.8676$zd5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>>
>>> "Buddude197" <buddude197(spamsucks)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:3q-dnf7X7pV...@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>>>>> maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never
>>>>> misses tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of
>>>> the best angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards
>>>> the sideline and wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides
>>>> to cut in he breaks out his needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed
>>>> is better.
>>>
>>> I wonder how Dawkins would fair if the Eagles didn't blitz
>>> so much?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> spending more time in the secondary wouldn't hurt as he'd be taking
>> fewer hits from RB's and FB's on the way to the QB. That said, all
>> Roy or Dawkins? Be honest, if you have a WR streaking down the
>> field, which of the two do you want back there?
>
> Honestly, I would want neither unless they were Ed Reed. Niether
> Dawkins or Williams have the speed to cover a streaking receiver.
Reed doesn't have that speed either.
> Strong Safeties don't
> have that type of speed in general. Free Safeties are better suited
> for that.
> That's
> why teams typically go deep on the SS side of the field.
Well that is really funny because Reed is the only SS out of the
three.
>
>
>
>> Cowboy fans can talk about run support all they want, it's mostly a
>> LBs job to begin with. Dawk can handle his own there, but as a DB
>> who do you, or any of the Cowboy fans really want to see in coverage
>> or pass support?
>>
>
> See the above answer.
I did and it didn't make any sense.
pablo
>
> And McNabb is no better than Jim Kelly.
Cool, he is no better then a HOFer.
Scott Petty
"pablo" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Fr2dnSlcWos...@comcast.com...
actually pab, in the Boys old scheme, Roy was the blitzer, leaving the
corners exposed. It coudln't be done last year, b/c we had nobodys playing
CB
pablo
>>
> what is it with you dumb fucks in this NG that you can't prove your
> point so you cry....oh you're a troll. God, it's so damn comical,
> you can see it coming. And to answer your post, I don't see a
> horsecollar tackle as being a dirty play. I fail to see how a few
> injuries justify the rule change. Injuries are part of the game, if
> you can't deal with that, go put on your skirt and play another
> sport. It's always sad when a players career is prematurely ended,
> but it's part of the game. I feel more sorry for the Dennis Byrds of
> the world that have far more serious issues to deal with then whether
> or not they will play football again. Somehow I get the feeling if
> Dawkins were the subject of a rule change then you wouldn't be so
> quick to take up this arguement, my stance doesn't rest of the color
> of the player's jersey, but whether or not I think it's a bad
> rule....and I simply think it's a bad rule. But what I really have a
> problem with is dumbfucks like you claiming that Roy is a dirty
> player, simply b/c he's making a tackle that is *legal*.
Is it that time of the month or what, Scott?
Scott Petty
No S has the speed to cover streaking WR.
>
>> Strong Safeties don't
>> have that type of speed in general. Free Safeties are better suited
>> for that. That's
>> why teams typically go deep on the SS side of the field.
>
> Well that is really funny because Reed is the only SS out of the
> three.
Roy is a SS, that tried to play FS last year. The year before he was at SS.
He'll be at SS this year, take it for what it's worth.
Scott Petty
No Pab, it isin't. Oh shit, that's what that is......oh nevermind.
Anyway, I just get a little pissy when some idiot labels Roy a dirty player
when it's never been brought up before, except possibly in this NG. Players
get hurt, it's part of the game.
pablo
Ok, I was taking it that he was asking how Dawkins would do if the
didn't blitz like the Eagles were covering for him, I was pointing out
that the Eagles blitzing CBs actually makes Dawkins job harder.
pablo
> "pablo" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3uKdnYJevLB...@comcast.com...
>> Scott Petty wrote:
>>>>
>>> what is it with you dumb fucks in this NG that you can't prove your
>>> point so you cry....oh you're a troll. God, it's so damn comical,
>>> you can see it coming. And to answer your post, I don't see a
>>> horsecollar tackle as being a dirty play. I fail to see how a few
>>> injuries justify the rule change. Injuries are part of the game, if
>>> you can't deal with that, go put on your skirt and play another
>>> sport. It's always sad when a players career is prematurely ended,
>>> but it's part of the game. I feel more sorry for the Dennis Byrds
>>> of the world that have far more serious issues to deal with then
>>> whether or not they will play football again. Somehow I get the
>>> feeling if Dawkins were the subject of a rule change then you
>>> wouldn't be so quick to take up this arguement, my stance doesn't
>>> rest of the color of the player's jersey, but whether or not I
>>> think it's a bad rule....and I simply think it's a bad rule. But
>>> what I really have a problem with is dumbfucks like you claiming
>>> that Roy is a dirty player, simply b/c he's making a tackle that is
>>> *legal*.
>>
>> Is it that time of the month or what, Scott?
>
> No Pab, it isin't. Oh shit, that's what that is......oh nevermind.
LOL. I hear you.
>
> Anyway, I just get a little pissy when some idiot labels Roy a dirty
> player when it's never been brought up before, except possibly in
> this NG. Players get hurt, it's part of the game.
Like I said it is mostly because of the Roy troll, so you have to take it
with a grain of salt. I don't think Roy is dirty, I do think he is a very
good
hitter, but needs to refine his tackling. He is probably a little weak in
that
area because he is very good at blowing up players that he never had to
learn proper technique before he came into the pros. I think most people'
in here think Roy is a pretty good safety that could become a great one
if he refines his game.
JP
"Buddude197" <buddude19...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> "Scott Petty" <tsp...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:fdIje.19276$iU.17562@lakeread05...
>> maybe he should take a clinc from Dawkins....I'm sure he never misses
>> tackels. Take your blinders off dumbass.
>>
>
> Have you ever watched Dawkins one on one in the open field? One of the best
> angle guys at safety, bar none. Steers offender towards the sideline and
> wrestles him out, or if offensive player decides to cut in he breaks out his
> needle and tattoos him. Only Ed Reed is better.
>
Ed Reed is a better safety, but no player is better than Dawk in the open
field. And any analyst will say the same. If he teaches that to Lewis
and the CBs I'd be a happy man.
Reed is better in more aspects of the game, most of them actually, but not
this one.
JP
>
Buddude197
How is the question flawed? As a safety the "streaking wide reciever" isn't
a possibility, it's a daily occurance. A safeties job is often the release
valve in press and zone cover, the deep man is instantly his responsibility.
Thats not flawed, it's reality. 'Which of those two would you want', that's
not even flawed, as safeties both men know that if the proper formation
aligns they become the coverman for the stretch reciever. Tony and you seem
to imply 'man-coverage', but that is not what I asked. I personally watched
Dawkins covering Moss during the playoffs, he ended up solo at least 4
times.
Buddude197
Don't assume 'man' coverage. (and at his prime Dawkins was compared
favorably to a cornerback)
Tony Nichols
Your question is flawed. You mention what we're implying as it relates to
the defensive scheme ( man to man). However, YOU never said what
type of coverage it was. Sure any safety looks great in a Cover-2 scheme.
or a scheme with a nickel corner. I gave you Dawkins, yet its a toss up at
best. You could put a fast LB back in "two or three deep" coverage and he
probably
won't get burned. I don't know if your "Dawkins on Moss 4 times" is a
veiled
attempt to say that Dawkins can cover a receiver like Moss one, but
shame on Culpepper if he had time to get the ball to Moss while Dawk
was on him. Moss wins that matchup all day everyday.
Tony Nichols
Williams played out of position last year, pablo. He is a
SS.