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Jets won't re-sign Jim Leonhard
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paddy_nyr
Jul 18, 2012, 9:37:41 PM7/18/12
to
Free-agent safety Jim Leonhard, a Rex Ryan favorite who galvanized the New York Jets' secondary for three seasons, won't be back with the team.
After revamping the safety position in the offseason, the Jets have decided not to re-sign Leonhard, according to league sources.
Leonhard, 29, is recovering from major knee surgery but still hopes to play this season. The injury occurred last Dec. 11 -- a torn patellar tendon -- a devastating blow for a player in the final year of his contract.
As much as they admire Leonhard, the Jets signed two free agents, LaRon Landry and Yeremiah Bell, formerly of the Washington Redskins and Miami Dolphins, respectively. They retained veteran Eric Smith and drafted two safeties, Josh Bush and Antonio Allen, making Leonhard expendable. Even so, there was speculation that he'd back.
Leonhard could return if there's an injury at safety, but the Jets' plan is to move ahead without the popular defender, who called the signals for Ryan's secondary.
"Hopefully, in the next few weeks, I get some workouts and get a contract," Leonhard recently told WEAU-TV in his native Wisconsin. "The knee is feeling great and I'm ready to go. I'm getting antsy. Football is around the corner and I don't have a team ... I know I'm going to be playing football somewhere this season. I just have to figure out where."
Leonhard finished the last two seasons on injured reserve, so there are questions about his durability. In December, 2010, he suffered a horrific broken leg in practice, requiring surgery. He made a comeback, started 13 games last season and finished fifth on the team in tackles.
With Leonhard out of the lineup, there was a noticeable drop-off in the Jets' secondary play.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8178871/new-york-jets-bring-back-veteran-safety-jim-leonhard
After revamping the safety position in the offseason, the Jets have decided not to re-sign Leonhard, according to league sources.
Leonhard, 29, is recovering from major knee surgery but still hopes to play this season. The injury occurred last Dec. 11 -- a torn patellar tendon -- a devastating blow for a player in the final year of his contract.
As much as they admire Leonhard, the Jets signed two free agents, LaRon Landry and Yeremiah Bell, formerly of the Washington Redskins and Miami Dolphins, respectively. They retained veteran Eric Smith and drafted two safeties, Josh Bush and Antonio Allen, making Leonhard expendable. Even so, there was speculation that he'd back.
Leonhard could return if there's an injury at safety, but the Jets' plan is to move ahead without the popular defender, who called the signals for Ryan's secondary.
"Hopefully, in the next few weeks, I get some workouts and get a contract," Leonhard recently told WEAU-TV in his native Wisconsin. "The knee is feeling great and I'm ready to go. I'm getting antsy. Football is around the corner and I don't have a team ... I know I'm going to be playing football somewhere this season. I just have to figure out where."
Leonhard finished the last two seasons on injured reserve, so there are questions about his durability. In December, 2010, he suffered a horrific broken leg in practice, requiring surgery. He made a comeback, started 13 games last season and finished fifth on the team in tackles.
With Leonhard out of the lineup, there was a noticeable drop-off in the Jets' secondary play.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8178871/new-york-jets-bring-back-veteran-safety-jim-leonhard
Papa Carl
Jul 18, 2012, 10:12:50 PM7/18/12
to
"paddy_nyr" wrote in message
news:2b31835d-f944-4406...@googlegroups.com...
They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again they
are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a totally unknown
quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was surprised he'd be
able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently he has recovered.
Somebody will pick him up.
Percy Flage
Jul 19, 2012, 7:34:52 AM7/19/12
to
On 19/07/2012 03:12, Papa Carl wrote:
>
> I'm going to state my position on this firmly. This is a huge mistake.
> They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
> For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
> held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again
> they are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a
> totally unknown quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was
> surprised he'd be able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently
> he has recovered. Somebody will pick him up.
Agreed, HUGE mistake. He's the guy that knows how to call Rex's D. He'll
>
> I'm going to state my position on this firmly. This is a huge mistake.
> They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
> For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
> held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again
> they are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a
> totally unknown quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was
> surprised he'd be able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently
> he has recovered. Somebody will pick him up.
be at the Pats or Fins, so they get the inside on the Jets' D.
There aren't any leaders left in the locker room.
--
Percy Flage
"Life is too short to have to explain everyday."
John C TX
Jul 19, 2012, 11:15:55 AM7/19/12
to
They are so stupid. Leonhard is a football player & like Papa wrote we need him.
I hope Houston signs him.
I hope Houston signs him.
mjd...@verizon.net
Jul 19, 2012, 11:48:47 AM7/19/12
to
On Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:15:55 AM UTC-4, John C TX wrote:
> They are so stupid. Leonhard is a football player & like Papa wrote we need him.
Again... Just a wild guess... I really think Ryan would take him on board if there was a good chance he'd hold up.
> They are so stupid. Leonhard is a football player & like Papa wrote we need him.
>
> I hope Houston signs him.
just wild speculation on my part, but we are not privy to a lot of what goes on. Ryan loves Lenohard. If there was a chance that Leonhard could be back in good form, I have a feeling the Jets would give him a contract. If the Jets doctors felt his medical condition was questionable and risky, they would not advertise it for Leonhard's sake. I think this is the case... The Jets medical staff feels he's not going to hold up but they wont say that to the press so as not to decrease his chances or value to another team.
> I hope Houston signs him.
Again... Just a wild guess... I really think Ryan would take him on board if there was a good chance he'd hold up.
Harlan Lachman
Jul 19, 2012, 2:58:31 PM7/19/12
to
In article <a6q9ms...@mid.individual.net>,
I disagree with you both.
If a mistake has been made, it is not upgrading the position during the
past two years -- after he got hurt the first time.
Leonhard was short and not especially fast and got beat over the top and
sometimes by speedier TE, the type more and more teams are getting to
emulate NE.
After two consecutive injury ended seasons, he would almost certainly
not be an upgrade over himself and he was not good enough.
Harlan
If a mistake has been made, it is not upgrading the position during the
past two years -- after he got hurt the first time.
Leonhard was short and not especially fast and got beat over the top and
sometimes by speedier TE, the type more and more teams are getting to
emulate NE.
After two consecutive injury ended seasons, he would almost certainly
not be an upgrade over himself and he was not good enough.
Harlan
Harlan Lachman
Jul 19, 2012, 2:59:14 PM7/19/12
to
Ritchie
Jul 19, 2012, 2:55:12 PM7/19/12
to
On Jul 18, 10:12 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@nothereverizon.net> wrote:
> I'm going to state my position on this firmly. This is a huge mistake.
> They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
> For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
> held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again they
> are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a totally unknown
> quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was surprised he'd be
> able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently he has recovered.
> Somebody will pick him up.
I agree 100%! Leonhard is a leader, something the team severely lacks!
> I'm going to state my position on this firmly. This is a huge mistake.
> They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
> For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
> held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again they
> are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a totally unknown
> quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was surprised he'd be
> able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently he has recovered.
> Somebody will pick him up.
As soon as he can play someone will sign him. This is a bonehead move!
John C TX
Jul 19, 2012, 3:00:41 PM7/19/12
to
> Again... Just a wild guess... I really think Ryan would take him on board if there was a good chance he'd hold up.
You might be right then sign him, PUP list him & you have him as insurance. When was the last time an NFL team didn't have to pick up a safety.
He knows the defense.
You might be right then sign him, PUP list him & you have him as insurance. When was the last time an NFL team didn't have to pick up a safety.
He knows the defense.
Percy Flage
Jul 19, 2012, 4:42:20 PM7/19/12
to
locker room leader, knew the D inside out and it's a mistake letting him
go. Yes it's been a mistake not upgrading there the past two years, but
the team has had other, much more glaring needs.
I maintain, letting him go will make the D and the leadership of the
team suffer.
papacarl
Jul 19, 2012, 6:42:32 PM7/19/12
to
"Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
news:harlan-D563C7....@news60.forteinc.com...
over the top when they don't look at what the safety's responsibilities are
and HOW they wind up being put in that position. When that happens to a
safety as it did with JL many times it was usually because of absolutely no
pass rush and poor LB coverage underneath and also letting receivers come up
the seam with nobody stopping or challenging them. It is not the safety's
job or role to be just another CB in the middle of the field. I said from
the start, JL had his shortcomings, but he was still one of the better guys
at his position when the rest of the defense did their jobs. You simply can
not have good safety play with NO freakin pass rush. I don't want to hear
about any of the great safeties in the league because I'll bet they have the
luxury of playing behind a legitimate rush, and run stoppers. When they do
that they get the luxury of giving that little bit of cushion to be able to
do that stuff up the middle and in the seams. As good as the Jets' D has
supposedly been they have not done this stuff very well. Leonhard had his
issues, but he was the leader out there and when he isn't there it
shows....how many missed alignments happened when he was on the field? Not
many, when he was not there they all looked confused. I'll be interested in
seeing who if anyone picks him up, and if they do and he performs we'll know
that once again they screwed up and got rid of someone with no real
replacement on hand. They do not have a good track record at predicting how
much better someone will be than a known entity. IMHO, Leonhard was a real
football player.
papacarl
Jul 19, 2012, 6:43:53 PM7/19/12
to
"Ritchie" wrote in message
news:f57b9f1a-8ec6-4dfe...@j4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Jets.
mjd...@verizon.net
Jul 20, 2012, 9:05:42 AM7/20/12
to
On Thursday, July 19, 2012 6:43:53 PM UTC-4, papacarl wrote:
> "Ritchie" wrote in message
> news:f57b9f1a-8ec6-4dfe...@j4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Jul 18, 10:12 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@nothereverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm going to state my position on this firmly. This is a huge mistake.
> > They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
> > For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
> > held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again
> > they
> > are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a totally
> > unknown
> > quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was surprised he'd be
> > able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently he has recovered.
> > Somebody will pick him up.
> My guess is Miami will sign him and he'll figure into a game that beats the
> Jets.
i wound not wager on that. with leonhard or without leonhard, miami is going to be a disaster area. i predict a 4-12 season for them. the only thing that was left keeping that team professional, working hard and in compatition was sparano. ross and ireland could run the 1980's 49'ers into the ground in a single season. and it really sucks too, because the jets/dolphins rivalry has been so much fun over the years. i hate it when an afc east team hits the skids. it means two garbage games.
> "Ritchie" wrote in message
> news:f57b9f1a-8ec6-4dfe...@j4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Jul 18, 10:12 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@nothereverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm going to state my position on this firmly. This is a huge mistake.
> > They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
> > For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
> > held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again
> > they
> > are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a totally
> > unknown
> > quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was surprised he'd be
> > able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently he has recovered.
> > Somebody will pick him up.
>
> I agree 100%! Leonhard is a leader, something the team severely lacks!
> As soon as he can play someone will sign him. This is a bonehead move!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I agree 100%! Leonhard is a leader, something the team severely lacks!
> As soon as he can play someone will sign him. This is a bonehead move!
>
> My guess is Miami will sign him and he'll figure into a game that beats the
> Jets.
i wound not wager on that. with leonhard or without leonhard, miami is going to be a disaster area. i predict a 4-12 season for them. the only thing that was left keeping that team professional, working hard and in compatition was sparano. ross and ireland could run the 1980's 49'ers into the ground in a single season. and it really sucks too, because the jets/dolphins rivalry has been so much fun over the years. i hate it when an afc east team hits the skids. it means two garbage games.
papacarl
Jul 20, 2012, 10:17:24 AM7/20/12
to
wrote in message
news:74ea6724-cd0f-4f94...@googlegroups.com...
Why do I feel that somehow the Jets will managed to turn it into a difficult
game?
John C TX
Jul 20, 2012, 10:21:54 AM7/20/12
to
On Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:42:32 PM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> "Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
> news:harlan-D563C7....@news60.forteinc.com...
>
> In article <a6q9ms...@mid.individual.net>,
> Percy Flage <percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On 19/07/2012 03:12, Papa Carl wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm going to state my position on this firmly. This is a huge mistake.
> > > They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
> > > For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
> > > held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again
> > > they are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a
> > > totally unknown quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was
> > > surprised he'd be able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently
> > > he has recovered. Somebody will pick him up.
> >
> > Agreed, HUGE mistake. He's the guy that knows how to call Rex's D. He'll
> > be at the Pats or Fins, so they get the inside on the Jets' D.
> >
> > There aren't any leaders left in the locker room.
> I'm always somewhat amused when people criticize a safety for being beat
> over the top when they don't look at what the safety's responsibilities are
> about any of the great safeties in the league because I'll bet they have the
> seeing who if anyone picks him up, and if they do and he performs we'll know
I rarely get pissed off as I assume they know more but why not give him an incentive laden deal? this is horrible.
> "Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
> news:harlan-D563C7....@news60.forteinc.com...
>
> In article <a6q9ms...@mid.individual.net>,
> Percy Flage <percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On 19/07/2012 03:12, Papa Carl wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm going to state my position on this firmly. This is a huge mistake.
> > > They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on defense.
> > > For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job done and he
> > > held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO, once again
> > > they are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with a
> > > totally unknown quantity. My money says this backfires on them. I was
> > > surprised he'd be able to come back, thought he wouldn't but apparently
> > > he has recovered. Somebody will pick him up.
> >
> > Agreed, HUGE mistake. He's the guy that knows how to call Rex's D. He'll
> > be at the Pats or Fins, so they get the inside on the Jets' D.
> >
> > There aren't any leaders left in the locker room.
>
> I disagree with you both.
>
> If a mistake has been made, it is not upgrading the position during the
> past two years -- after he got hurt the first time.
>
> Leonhard was short and not especially fast and got beat over the top and
> sometimes by speedier TE, the type more and more teams are getting to
> emulate NE.
>
> After two consecutive injury ended seasons, he would almost certainly
> not be an upgrade over himself and he was not good enough.
>
> Harlan
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I disagree with you both.
>
> If a mistake has been made, it is not upgrading the position during the
> past two years -- after he got hurt the first time.
>
> Leonhard was short and not especially fast and got beat over the top and
> sometimes by speedier TE, the type more and more teams are getting to
> emulate NE.
>
> After two consecutive injury ended seasons, he would almost certainly
> not be an upgrade over himself and he was not good enough.
>
> Harlan
> I'm always somewhat amused when people criticize a safety for being beat
> over the top when they don't look at what the safety's responsibilities are
> and HOW they wind up being put in that position. When that happens to a
> safety as it did with JL many times it was usually because of absolutely no
> pass rush and poor LB coverage underneath and also letting receivers come up
> the seam with nobody stopping or challenging them. It is not the safety's
> safety as it did with JL many times it was usually because of absolutely no
> pass rush and poor LB coverage underneath and also letting receivers come up
> job or role to be just another CB in the middle of the field. I said from
> the start, JL had his shortcomings, but he was still one of the better guys
> at his position when the rest of the defense did their jobs. You simply can
> not have good safety play with NO freakin pass rush. I don't want to hear
> the start, JL had his shortcomings, but he was still one of the better guys
> at his position when the rest of the defense did their jobs. You simply can
> about any of the great safeties in the league because I'll bet they have the
> luxury of playing behind a legitimate rush, and run stoppers. When they do
> that they get the luxury of giving that little bit of cushion to be able to
> do that stuff up the middle and in the seams. As good as the Jets' D has
> that they get the luxury of giving that little bit of cushion to be able to
> supposedly been they have not done this stuff very well. Leonhard had his
> issues, but he was the leader out there and when he isn't there it
> shows....how many missed alignments happened when he was on the field? Not
> many, when he was not there they all looked confused. I'll be interested in
> seeing who if anyone picks him up, and if they do and he performs we'll know
> that once again they screwed up and got rid of someone with no real
> replacement on hand. They do not have a good track record at predicting how
> much better someone will be than a known entity. IMHO, Leonhard was a real
> football player.
Joe McKnight will move to defense & call the plays.
> replacement on hand. They do not have a good track record at predicting how
> much better someone will be than a known entity. IMHO, Leonhard was a real
> football player.
I rarely get pissed off as I assume they know more but why not give him an incentive laden deal? this is horrible.
papacarl
Jul 20, 2012, 10:51:30 AM7/20/12
to
"John C TX" wrote in message
news:5be4cb7d-57c7-4b03...@googlegroups.com...
John,
I'd bet they do a lot of talking and then start to believe their own
bs.....it makes no sense to not come up with some deal that keeps a leader
around, even if he winds up on the pup list or whatever, now again they go
into a season with huge questions and have no real idea what is going to
happen at a key position in terms of game knowledge. Without Leonhard the
drop off in what that D could do was huge, they couldn't even get into the
right alignments.
John C TX
Jul 20, 2012, 10:57:15 AM7/20/12
to
On Friday, July 20, 2012 9:51:30 AM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> "John C TX" wrote in message
> > news:harlan-D563C7....@news60.forteinc.com...
> >
> > In article &lt;a6q9ms...@mid.individual.net&gt;,
> > Percy Flage &lt;percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk&gt; wrote:
> >
> > &gt; On 19/07/2012 03:12, Papa Carl wrote:
> > &gt; &gt;
> > &gt; &gt; I&#39;m going to state my position on this firmly. This is a
> > huge mistake.
> > &gt; &gt; They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on
> > defense.
> > &gt; &gt; For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job
> > done and he
> > &gt; &gt; held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO,
> > once again
> > &gt; &gt; they are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with
> > a
> > &gt; &gt; totally unknown quantity. My money says this backfires on them.
> > I was
> > &gt; &gt; surprised he&#39;d be able to come back, thought he wouldn&#39;t
> > but apparently
> > &gt; &gt; he has recovered. Somebody will pick him up.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; Agreed, HUGE mistake. He&#39;s the guy that knows how to call
> > Rex&#39;s D. He&#39;ll
> > &gt; be at the Pats or Fins, so they get the inside on the Jets&#39; D.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; There aren&#39;t any leaders left in the locker room.
> >
> > I disagree with you both.
> >
> > If a mistake has been made, it is not upgrading the position during the
> > past two years -- after he got hurt the first time.
> >
> > Leonhard was short and not especially fast and got beat over the top and
> > sometimes by speedier TE, the type more and more teams are getting to
> > emulate NE.
> >
> > After two consecutive injury ended seasons, he would almost certainly
> > not be an upgrade over himself and he was not good enough.
> >
> > Harlan
> > &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
> > I&#39;m always somewhat amused when people criticize a safety for being
> > beat
> > over the top when they don&#39;t look at what the safety&#39;s
> > responsibilities are
> > and HOW they wind up being put in that position. When that happens to a
> > safety as it did with JL many times it was usually because of absolutely
> > no
> > pass rush and poor LB coverage underneath and also letting receivers come
> > up
> > the seam with nobody stopping or challenging them. It is not the
> > safety&#39;s
> > job or role to be just another CB in the middle of the field. I said from
> > the start, JL had his shortcomings, but he was still one of the better
> > guys
> > at his position when the rest of the defense did their jobs. You simply
> > can
> > not have good safety play with NO freakin pass rush. I don&#39;t want to
> > hear
> > about any of the great safeties in the league because I&#39;ll bet they
> > have the
> > luxury of playing behind a legitimate rush, and run stoppers. When they
> > do
> > that they get the luxury of giving that little bit of cushion to be able
> > to
> > do that stuff up the middle and in the seams. As good as the Jets&#39; D
> > has
> > supposedly been they have not done this stuff very well. Leonhard had his
> > issues, but he was the leader out there and when he isn&#39;t there it
> > shows....how many missed alignments happened when he was on the field?
> > Not
> > many, when he was not there they all looked confused. I&#39;ll be
> > interested in
> > seeing who if anyone picks him up, and if they do and he performs
> > we&#39;ll know
> > that once again they screwed up and got rid of someone with no real
> > replacement on hand. They do not have a good track record at predicting
> > how
> > much better someone will be than a known entity. IMHO, Leonhard was a
> > real
> > football player.
>
> Joe McKnight will move to defense & call the plays.
> right alignments.
There is hope. Cimini was the source.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8178871/new-york-jets-bring-back-veteran-safety-jim-leonhard
> "John C TX" wrote in message
> news:5be4cb7d-57c7-4b03...@googlegroups.com...
>
> On Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:42:32 PM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> > &quot;Harlan Lachman&quot; wrote in message
>
> On Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:42:32 PM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> > news:harlan-D563C7....@news60.forteinc.com...
> >
> > In article &lt;a6q9ms...@mid.individual.net&gt;,
> > Percy Flage &lt;percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk&gt; wrote:
> >
> > &gt; On 19/07/2012 03:12, Papa Carl wrote:
> > &gt; &gt;
> > &gt; &gt; I&#39;m going to state my position on this firmly. This is a
> > huge mistake.
> > &gt; &gt; They are lacking leaders on the team and have no real leader on
> > defense.
> > &gt; &gt; For whatever his shortcomings might have been he got the job
> > done and he
> > &gt; &gt; held things together....he was the leader on defense. IMHO,
> > once again
> > &gt; &gt; they are getting rid of a known quantity and replacing him with
> > a
> > &gt; &gt; totally unknown quantity. My money says this backfires on them.
> > I was
> > &gt; &gt; surprised he&#39;d be able to come back, thought he wouldn&#39;t
> > but apparently
> > &gt; &gt; he has recovered. Somebody will pick him up.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; Agreed, HUGE mistake. He&#39;s the guy that knows how to call
> > Rex&#39;s D. He&#39;ll
> > &gt; be at the Pats or Fins, so they get the inside on the Jets&#39; D.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; There aren&#39;t any leaders left in the locker room.
> >
> > I disagree with you both.
> >
> > If a mistake has been made, it is not upgrading the position during the
> > past two years -- after he got hurt the first time.
> >
> > Leonhard was short and not especially fast and got beat over the top and
> > sometimes by speedier TE, the type more and more teams are getting to
> > emulate NE.
> >
> > After two consecutive injury ended seasons, he would almost certainly
> > not be an upgrade over himself and he was not good enough.
> >
> > Harlan
> > &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
> > I&#39;m always somewhat amused when people criticize a safety for being
> > beat
> > over the top when they don&#39;t look at what the safety&#39;s
> > responsibilities are
> > and HOW they wind up being put in that position. When that happens to a
> > safety as it did with JL many times it was usually because of absolutely
> > no
> > pass rush and poor LB coverage underneath and also letting receivers come
> > up
> > the seam with nobody stopping or challenging them. It is not the
> > safety&#39;s
> > job or role to be just another CB in the middle of the field. I said from
> > the start, JL had his shortcomings, but he was still one of the better
> > guys
> > at his position when the rest of the defense did their jobs. You simply
> > can
> > not have good safety play with NO freakin pass rush. I don&#39;t want to
> > hear
> > about any of the great safeties in the league because I&#39;ll bet they
> > have the
> > luxury of playing behind a legitimate rush, and run stoppers. When they
> > do
> > that they get the luxury of giving that little bit of cushion to be able
> > to
> > do that stuff up the middle and in the seams. As good as the Jets&#39; D
> > has
> > supposedly been they have not done this stuff very well. Leonhard had his
> > issues, but he was the leader out there and when he isn&#39;t there it
> > shows....how many missed alignments happened when he was on the field?
> > Not
> > many, when he was not there they all looked confused. I&#39;ll be
> > interested in
> > seeing who if anyone picks him up, and if they do and he performs
> > we&#39;ll know
> > that once again they screwed up and got rid of someone with no real
> > replacement on hand. They do not have a good track record at predicting
> > how
> > much better someone will be than a known entity. IMHO, Leonhard was a
> > real
> > football player.
>
> Joe McKnight will move to defense & call the plays.
>
> I rarely get pissed off as I assume they know more but why not give him an
> incentive laden deal? this is horrible.
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
> John,
>
> I'd bet they do a lot of talking and then start to believe their own
> I rarely get pissed off as I assume they know more but why not give him an
> incentive laden deal? this is horrible.
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
> John,
>
> bs.....it makes no sense to not come up with some deal that keeps a leader
> around, even if he winds up on the pup list or whatever, now again they go
> into a season with huge questions and have no real idea what is going to
> happen at a key position in terms of game knowledge. Without Leonhard the
> drop off in what that D could do was huge, they couldn't even get into the
> around, even if he winds up on the pup list or whatever, now again they go
> into a season with huge questions and have no real idea what is going to
> happen at a key position in terms of game knowledge. Without Leonhard the
> right alignments.
There is hope. Cimini was the source.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8178871/new-york-jets-bring-back-veteran-safety-jim-leonhard
papacarl
Jul 20, 2012, 12:52:30 PM7/20/12
to
"John C TX" wrote in message
I'm afraid not...several others have it too and I just saw some Leonhard
quotes....who will pick him up...I think it will be NE or Miami but could be
Buffalo.
John C TX
Jul 20, 2012, 4:13:14 PM7/20/12
to
On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:52:30 AM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> "John C TX" wrote in message
> news:7c8d8770-fd2f-4d2c...@googlegroups.com...
>
> On Friday, July 20, 2012 9:51:30 AM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> > &quot;John C TX&quot; wrote in message
> "John C TX" wrote in message
> news:7c8d8770-fd2f-4d2c...@googlegroups.com...
>
> On Friday, July 20, 2012 9:51:30 AM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> > news:5be4cb7d-57c7-4b03...@googlegroups.com...
> >
> > On Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:42:32 PM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> > &gt; &amp;quot;Harlan Lachman&amp;quot; wrote in message
> > &gt; news:harlan-D563C7....@news60.forteinc.com...
> > &gt;
> > &gt; In article &amp;lt;a6q9ms...@mid.individual.net&amp;gt;,
> > &gt; Percy Flage &amp;lt;percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk&amp;gt;
> > wrote:
> > &gt;
> > &gt; &amp;gt; On 19/07/2012 03:12, Papa Carl wrote:
> > &gt;
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; I&amp;#39;m going to state my position on this
> > firmly. This is a
> > &gt; huge mistake.
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; They are lacking leaders on the team and have no
> > real leader on
> > &gt; defense.
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; For whatever his shortcomings might have been he
> > got the job
> > &gt; done and he
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; held things together....he was the leader on
> > defense. IMHO,
> > &gt; once again
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; they are getting rid of a known quantity and
> > replacing him with
> > &gt; a
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; totally unknown quantity. My money says this
> > backfires on them.
> > &gt; I was
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; surprised he&amp;#39;d be able to come back,
> > thought he wouldn&amp;#39;t
> > &gt; but apparently
> > &gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; he has recovered. Somebody will pick him up.
> > &gt; &amp;gt;
> > &gt; &amp;gt; Agreed, HUGE mistake. He&amp;#39;s the guy that knows how to
> > call
> > &gt; Rex&amp;#39;s D. He&amp;#39;ll
> > &gt; &amp;gt; be at the Pats or Fins, so they get the inside on the
> > Jets&amp;#39; D.
> > &gt; &amp;gt;
> > &gt; &amp;gt; There aren&amp;#39;t any leaders left in the locker room.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; I disagree with you both.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; If a mistake has been made, it is not upgrading the position during
> > the
> > &gt; past two years -- after he got hurt the first time.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; Leonhard was short and not especially fast and got beat over the top
> > and
> > &gt; sometimes by speedier TE, the type more and more teams are getting to
> > &gt; emulate NE.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; After two consecutive injury ended seasons, he would almost certainly
> > &gt; not be an upgrade over himself and he was not good enough.
> > &gt;
> > &gt; Harlan
> > &gt;
> > &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;
> > &gt; I&amp;#39;m always somewhat amused when people criticize a safety for
> > being
> > &gt; beat
> > &gt; over the top when they don&amp;#39;t look at what the
> > safety&amp;#39;s
> > &gt; responsibilities are
> > &gt; and HOW they wind up being put in that position. When that happens
> > to a
> > &gt; safety as it did with JL many times it was usually because of
> > absolutely
> > &gt; no
> > &gt; pass rush and poor LB coverage underneath and also letting receivers
> > come
> > &gt; up
> > &gt; the seam with nobody stopping or challenging them. It is not the
> > &gt; safety&amp;#39;s
> > &gt; job or role to be just another CB in the middle of the field. I said
> > from
> > &gt; the start, JL had his shortcomings, but he was still one of the
> > better
> > &gt; guys
> > &gt; at his position when the rest of the defense did their jobs. You
> > simply
> > &gt; can
> > &gt; not have good safety play with NO freakin pass rush. I don&amp;#39;t
> > want to
> > &gt; hear
> > &gt; about any of the great safeties in the league because I&amp;#39;ll
> > bet they
> > &gt; have the
> > &gt; luxury of playing behind a legitimate rush, and run stoppers. When
> > they
> > &gt; do
> > &gt; that they get the luxury of giving that little bit of cushion to be
> > able
> > &gt; to
> > &gt; do that stuff up the middle and in the seams. As good as the
> > Jets&amp;#39; D
> > &gt; has
> > &gt; supposedly been they have not done this stuff very well. Leonhard
> > had his
> > &gt; issues, but he was the leader out there and when he isn&amp;#39;t
> > there it
> > &gt; shows....how many missed alignments happened when he was on the
> > field?
> > &gt; Not
> > &gt; many, when he was not there they all looked confused. I&amp;#39;ll
> > be
> > &gt; interested in
> > &gt; seeing who if anyone picks him up, and if they do and he performs
> > &gt; we&amp;#39;ll know
> > &gt; that once again they screwed up and got rid of someone with no real
> > &gt; replacement on hand. They do not have a good track record at
> > predicting
> > &gt; how
> > &gt; much better someone will be than a known entity. IMHO, Leonhard was
> > a
> > &gt; real
> > &gt; football player.
> >
> > Joe McKnight will move to defense &amp; call the plays.
> >
> > I rarely get pissed off as I assume they know more but why not give him an
> > incentive laden deal? this is horrible.
> > ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
> > John,
> >
> > I&#39;d bet they do a lot of talking and then start to believe their own
> > bs.....it makes no sense to not come up with some deal that keeps a leader
> > around, even if he winds up on the pup list or whatever, now again they go
> > into a season with huge questions and have no real idea what is going to
> > happen at a key position in terms of game knowledge. Without Leonhard the
> > drop off in what that D could do was huge, they couldn&#39;t even get into
> > the
> > right alignments.
>
> There is hope. Cimini was the source.
>
> http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8178871/new-york-jets-bring-back-veteran-safety-jim-leonhard
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
> I'm afraid not...several others have it too and I just saw some Leonhard
> There is hope. Cimini was the source.
>
> http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8178871/new-york-jets-bring-back-veteran-safety-jim-leonhard
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
> quotes....who will pick him up...I think it will be NE or Miami but could be
> Buffalo.
That was a joke/wishful thinking but every report either cites ESPN or just reports he has not signed. Maybe he is in the Tea Party?
> Buffalo.
I haven't seen his quotes mention AFCE. I hope he doesn't go to NE.
Harlan Lachman
Jul 23, 2012, 3:37:07 PM7/23/12
to
In article <z9Kdncd5NIz0EJXN...@giganews.com>,
Papa, poor word choice. I meant passes over his head. I should have
realized over the top means something specific in football. Mea culpa.
h
realized over the top means something specific in football. Mea culpa.
h
papacarl
Jul 23, 2012, 5:58:33 PM7/23/12
to
"Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
rather have a guy who has shortness as the downfall but knows where to be,
line up and gets other there. I'm worried about who is going to run this D
in the secondary...when he went out two times now they fell apart. I just
think they are really short on leader....did not intend that pun :-) You
are correct...he can not get up there with some of the receivers even when
he is in position.
Harlan Lachman
Jul 24, 2012, 2:30:54 PM7/24/12
to
In article <39ydnXj51JqWVJDN...@giganews.com>,
a competent GM could find at least one fast, tall, safety , who knows
where is his supposed to be and can tackle -- especially given that the
team above us in our division has two, count em, two (or more if they
get Visante or Shockey) TE to create mismatches against our too slow
Eric Smith and too slow and short and oft injured Jim Leonhard.
I would rather have replaced Leonhard now with someone better. How come
Tanny cannot do that.
h
"papacarl" <papa...@notatverizon.net> wrote:
> I'd still
> rather have a guy who has shortness as the downfall but knows where to be,
Yes, but (I hate when folks do that to me) in two years one would think
> I'd still
> rather have a guy who has shortness as the downfall but knows where to be,
a competent GM could find at least one fast, tall, safety , who knows
where is his supposed to be and can tackle -- especially given that the
team above us in our division has two, count em, two (or more if they
get Visante or Shockey) TE to create mismatches against our too slow
Eric Smith and too slow and short and oft injured Jim Leonhard.
I would rather have replaced Leonhard now with someone better. How come
Tanny cannot do that.
h
mjd...@verizon.net
Jul 24, 2012, 6:09:30 PM7/24/12
to
On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 2:30:54 PM UTC-4, Harlan Lachman wrote:
> In article <39ydnXj51JqWVJDN...@giganews.com>,
> "papacarl" <papa...@notatverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd still
> > rather have a guy who has shortness as the downfall but knows where to be,
> In article <39ydnXj51JqWVJDN...@giganews.com>,
> "papacarl" <papa...@notatverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd still
> > rather have a guy who has shortness as the downfall but knows where to be,
>
> Yes, but (I hate when folks do that to me) in two years one would think
> a competent GM could find at least one fast, tall, safety , who knows
> where is his supposed to be and can tackle -- especially given that the
> team above us in our division has two, count em, two (or more if they
> get Visante or Shockey) TE to create mismatches against our too slow
> Eric Smith and too slow and short and oft injured Jim Leonhard.
>
> I would rather have replaced Leonhard now with someone better. How come
> Tanny cannot do that.
>
> h
there was only one quality S in the draft this year... Mark Barron. He went before the Jets made their pick... Also... They did bring in Landry and the dude from Miami. Quality safties are not exactly falling out of the sky.
> Yes, but (I hate when folks do that to me) in two years one would think
> a competent GM could find at least one fast, tall, safety , who knows
> where is his supposed to be and can tackle -- especially given that the
> team above us in our division has two, count em, two (or more if they
> get Visante or Shockey) TE to create mismatches against our too slow
> Eric Smith and too slow and short and oft injured Jim Leonhard.
>
> I would rather have replaced Leonhard now with someone better. How come
> Tanny cannot do that.
>
> h
papacarl
Jul 24, 2012, 6:15:44 PM7/24/12
to
"Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
want to play corner and the money is in playing corner. I think the way the
game is going now there needs to be far more emphasis on some safeties than
corners...or somehow convert some "large" corners. I'd bet really good ones
are among the scarcest of positions. Did you see that Landry is PUP ? I
think that is a huge gamble too given his past record. I'm actually going
to be very surprised if he plays a full season...extremely surprised. Rex's
D scheme is predicated on great corner play and the safeties filling and
stopping the run game. I think a lot of that is because LB's really get
into the pass rush. I honestly think if they had some serious down threats
it would help a lot. They have not had one of those in a long time. I also
think the safeties they have or have had would look a Hell of a lot better
if they were not so involved in run stopping all the time. I still see a
lot of questions in this roster right now and not just on offense.
papacarl
Jul 24, 2012, 6:16:19 PM7/24/12
to
"Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
I just heard Shockey is talking to the Eagles.
John C TX
Jul 25, 2012, 8:40:58 AM7/25/12
to
On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:16:19 PM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> "Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
> news:harlan-8D9615....@news60.forteinc.com...
>
1. Depth at the receiving TE position
2. His blocking is underrated.
> "Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
> news:harlan-8D9615....@news60.forteinc.com...
>
> In article <39ydnXj51JqWVJDN...@giganews.com>,
> "papacarl" <papa...@notatverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd still
> > rather have a guy who has shortness as the downfall but knows where to be,
> "papacarl" <papa...@notatverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd still
>
> Yes, but (I hate when folks do that to me) in two years one would think
> a competent GM could find at least one fast, tall, safety , who knows
> where is his supposed to be and can tackle -- especially given that the
> team above us in our division has two, count em, two (or more if they
> get Visante or Shockey) TE to create mismatches against our too slow
> Eric Smith and too slow and short and oft injured Jim Leonhard.
>
> I would rather have replaced Leonhard now with someone better. How come
> Tanny cannot do that.
>
> h
> ______________________________________________________________________
> I just heard Shockey is talking to the Eagles.
I thought he would have been a good pick up for two reasons:
> Yes, but (I hate when folks do that to me) in two years one would think
> a competent GM could find at least one fast, tall, safety , who knows
> where is his supposed to be and can tackle -- especially given that the
> team above us in our division has two, count em, two (or more if they
> get Visante or Shockey) TE to create mismatches against our too slow
> Eric Smith and too slow and short and oft injured Jim Leonhard.
>
> I would rather have replaced Leonhard now with someone better. How come
> Tanny cannot do that.
>
> h
> ______________________________________________________________________
> I just heard Shockey is talking to the Eagles.
1. Depth at the receiving TE position
2. His blocking is underrated.
John C TX
Jul 25, 2012, 8:42:33 AM7/25/12
to
On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:15:44 PM UTC-5, papacarl wrote:
> "Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
> news:harlan-8D9615....@news60.forteinc.com...
>
> to be very surprised if he plays a full season...extremely surprised. Rex's
I really wish that they would try Wilson there. He has more speed & he is willing to hit.
> "Harlan Lachman" wrote in message
> news:harlan-8D9615....@news60.forteinc.com...
>
> In article <39ydnXj51JqWVJDN...@giganews.com>,
> "papacarl" <papa...@notatverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd still
> > rather have a guy who has shortness as the downfall but knows where to be,
> "papacarl" <papa...@notatverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd still
>
> Yes, but (I hate when folks do that to me) in two years one would think
> a competent GM could find at least one fast, tall, safety , who knows
> where is his supposed to be and can tackle -- especially given that the
> team above us in our division has two, count em, two (or more if they
> get Visante or Shockey) TE to create mismatches against our too slow
> Eric Smith and too slow and short and oft injured Jim Leonhard.
>
> I would rather have replaced Leonhard now with someone better. How come
> Tanny cannot do that.
>
> h
> Yes, but (I hate when folks do that to me) in two years one would think
> a competent GM could find at least one fast, tall, safety , who knows
> where is his supposed to be and can tackle -- especially given that the
> team above us in our division has two, count em, two (or more if they
> get Visante or Shockey) TE to create mismatches against our too slow
> Eric Smith and too slow and short and oft injured Jim Leonhard.
>
> I would rather have replaced Leonhard now with someone better. How come
> Tanny cannot do that.
>
> h
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> H...there just aren't that many of them around. The guys in college all
> want to play corner and the money is in playing corner. I think the way the
> game is going now there needs to be far more emphasis on some safeties than
> corners...or somehow convert some "large" corners. I'd bet really good ones
> game is going now there needs to be far more emphasis on some safeties than
> are among the scarcest of positions. Did you see that Landry is PUP ? I
> think that is a huge gamble too given his past record. I'm actually going
> to be very surprised if he plays a full season...extremely surprised. Rex's
> D scheme is predicated on great corner play and the safeties filling and
> stopping the run game. I think a lot of that is because LB's really get
> into the pass rush. I honestly think if they had some serious down threats
> it would help a lot. They have not had one of those in a long time. I also
> think the safeties they have or have had would look a Hell of a lot better
> if they were not so involved in run stopping all the time. I still see a
> lot of questions in this roster right now and not just on offense.
It is a tough defense if you have to play in the secondary. Safeties are just tough to find.
> it would help a lot. They have not had one of those in a long time. I also
> think the safeties they have or have had would look a Hell of a lot better
> if they were not so involved in run stopping all the time. I still see a
> lot of questions in this roster right now and not just on offense.
I really wish that they would try Wilson there. He has more speed & he is willing to hit.
papacarl
Jul 25, 2012, 2:17:11 PM7/25/12
to
"John C TX" wrote in message
I think I agree on Wilson. And...my experience was that you could plug some
fast RB's in at some safety duties. It would be a major and long project to
convert one for a regular basis, but some RB's can fit into a role and Rex
uses lots of "role" schemes I think.
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