The Jets only REAL problem... SCHOTT
Michael
excuse for it. Schott must go. IMHO, this MUST happen at the end of
this season for the Jets to advance beyond a .500 team. I also blame
the lack of progress on the part of Sanchez to be a direct result of
Schott poorly managing the offense and poorly managing him. I've said
it before and I'll say it again... Schott can not build drives
intelligently, he shows little or no idea of how to take advantage of
a weakness in a defense and his offense never seems to be prepared
properly. No small wonder that a talented but inexperienced qb shows
no sign of being coached up as well. The poor showing on offense has
also no doubt been dispiriting to the defense as well. They are
professionals and know they are there to do their jobs, but football
is an emotional game. The defense gets a lift when the offense does
somthing good and the offense does when the defense makes a good
play. The Jets offense has done nothing for the defense but serve
them "doggie downers" by rote week after week. It's all Schott. All
of it.
Michael
Ahhhh.... It looks like Rex understands where the problem is too.
http://www.newyorkjets.com/blog/posts/1360-ryan-to-spend-more-time-with-sanchez-offense
Thank goodness ! We'll be in good shape next season.
Julio
Nah. You've got bigger problems than Schott:
#of multiple int games # of >2 int games # of >3 int games
Sanchez 4 (out of 11 games ) 3 2
Favre 7 (out of 16 games) 2 0
Clemens (2007) 2 (out of 7) 0 0
Pennington (2006) 5 (out of 16) 1 0
Favre was hurt half the season.
Nobody throws 4 and 5 int games in a season unless they suck. Which
doesn't mean that he can't get better, but right now....
J.
papa.carl44
"Julio" <hoolio3...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:45DSB2T540141.4502662037@reece.net.au...
You are right. And he is not getting better, in fact, he is getting
worse....I think that has to have something to do with who is coaching him.
Could be wrong.
MZ
I think that's part of Michael's point. Sanchez is doing poorly because
Schott is not putting him in a position to win, and as Carl and others
have said, he's also probably not giving him the coaching that a rookie
QB so desperately needs. Especially a rookie that has so very little
playing experience.
That doesn't mean that Sanchez doesn't deserve any blame. He does. But
the root of the problem is somewhere in the coaching staff. It's not
clear if it's at the top (Rex) or at the position coaches (QB coach,
offensive assistants, ...). There's probably plenty of blame to go around.
I think Rex knows football. I also think he's able to translate that
knowledge onto the field. How else can you explain the fact that he
took a defensive unit that was crap last year and made them good (recent
setbacks aside...)? And people who know defenses as well as he does
also know offenses. So, not being on the practice field with these
guys, my best guess is that the problem is with the assistants. Maybe
not just Schott. Maybe it's all of them.
Another possibility is that Woody has mandated that Rex needs to be
hands off with Schott. Remember, Schott wasn't brought in by Rex.
Maybe that was one of the terms that Schott demanded when he was denied
the HC gig. So it's possible that this truly is Schott's offense and
that Rex has been a bit handcuffed by Woody. Maybe that's a longshot, I
don't know.
But don't undervalue the impact that assistant coaches have. Today
Belichick talked about that very subject... "There are decisions that
assistant coaches have to make every single day in practice. That�s
where those guys make a lot of their money right there � those
decisions. There is no way to minimize that, or for me to give it due
credit."
Michael
> Julio wrote:
> > In article <8efb62dc-1354-4b20-9a6c-1fd68c9d5...@j35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
> where those guys make a lot of their money right there – those
> decisions. There is no way to minimize that, or for me to give it due
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mark... You are exactly just right. Rex knows football. He has to
get a bit more polished as far as what he says and how he says it now
that he is "upper level management", but he's proven that he knows the
game. He has always said that he would speak openly, but right now,
he's not speaking openly. Probably because the issue at hand is a Jet
assistant. If you read that article that I posed above, when Rex said
that he's gonna be more involved with the offense and stay shoulder to
shoulder with Sanchez, he's speaking between the lines. What he's
saying is that he knows there is a problem with Schott and the
attention that Sanchez is getting is badly lacking and he will take
control if it himself. This is a finger pointing right at Schott. I
cant be more pleased that our HC knows what the hell his team's big
problem is right now. This article is the most positive thing I have
heard all season in the sense that now I know Rex has the problem
targeted. One way or another Schott will be moving on with his shoe
box at the end of this season.
Julio
other guys too.
Glenn Greenstein
> In article <8efb62dc-1354-4b20-9a6c-1fd68c9d5...@j35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Or they are a Rookie with very little college experience.
Glenn Greenstein
OK, I was really trying to ignore this but I have to chime in. Sanchez
said in his presser after the game that he has been told he needs to
know when to say uncle. That IMO is his biggest problem to date, he
tries to make something happen when there is nothing there and even
when there is less than nothing there, he has to stop throwing the
ball into tight coverage. The Jets have neither the receivers or the
QB to beat that kind of coverage. This is what he needs to learn and
this is something called discipline on the part of the player and they
have to have this within themselves. If Sanchez does just that, he is
light years ahead of where he is now. This is something he has spoken
about multiple times so he has been told this and in his heart he
knows it, he is just not putting it to good use. In his defense, he is
a rookie and he is learning what throws are good ones and bad ones but
even as a rookie a game like the last one is not acceptable, he made
the same bad throw to the same DB 3 times. IMO that is a plain brain
fart if I ever saw one. He has to learn to check down or throw it
away.
Glenn Greenstein
> Yeah, but my point was, Schott was the coach for those
> other guys too.
All of them save Clemens had the experience already to be disciplined
QB's.
Big Balls Billy
bad offensive plays and bad QB decisions from pablo.
Still Roper
I've never been much of a Schott basher...I didn't want to be...I
wanted the consistency of his offense to remain in palce...but...times
are a changing.
I...me...was predicting his calls for most of the game...and if I'm
doing that...then I'm sure professional football people are as well.
His 2nd down run call after a 1st down incompletion is probably
happening about 90% of the time.
If Clemens was gonna play...then Schott made sense...but to feed poor
Sanchez to this guy is the absolute wrong move...he will be gone by
year's end. Book it!
Roper
Glenn Greenstein
You people talk as if we have Brees passing the ball here. Schott is
covering up for a QB that makes bad pass after bad pass.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
covering up by running at the wrong time and passing at the wrong time
and having no discernable game plan as it relates to the defense he is
facing nor any economy at all on the use of first and second downs.
he also seems to be blind to the fact that other teams watch tape and
have a nice blue print of where and when db's can jump routs. sanchez
has been getting picked off on all those short routs that are
wonderfully designed to attract sharks like blood. you cant tell me
that you dont see those interceptions happen before they do. the
defenders sure do !
Glenn Greenstein
Oh come on, when your QB is throwing pick after pick, when is there a
good time to pass. On top of it as I said before, these were not even
picks where the DB baited the QB by appearing to be playing off, these
were throws that should never have been made because the receiver was
covered. How you see them jumping the short routes when the DB is
actually standing right next to the WR has me shaking my head. On top
of it the receiver never even had a chance to get the ball, it was as
if he was throwing it to the DB. SO after a pass falls incomplete, you
want to see him throw it again? Running the ball sets up a shorter
first down even if it was by 2 yards. I see a lot of teams work the
downs in this same manner.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
any idea why sanchez appears to be getting worse and not better ???
like mr. miagi said... no such thing as bad student.. only bad
teacher... right about now, over 50 % of the fans that i know realize
that schott is the larger problem that the jets have right now. it is
creating spinn-off issues. sanchez is not improving and the defense
is dispirited as a result of pathetic offensive results.
MZ
> Yeah, but my point was, Schott was the coach for those
> other guys too.
And they all sucked. [Think Favre suddenly learned how to play QB this
year?]
Rob
>
> - Show quoted text -
This is comical. So you are saying that Schott has designed routes
that are meant to be picked off? Do you know anything about football?
Do you think that the route Sanchez throws to is the only route
available
on the play? You need to go to nfl.com and look at the video
"highlights"
for Mark Sanchez. Here's what you'll see:
First int: Sanchez throws where there are 3 defenders on the left,
when the ball was snapped as soon as it was in his hand his head
turned left and never moved, telegraphing the throw. He had at least
2 other receivers on the right, I couldn't see whether they were
covered
or not because of the angle of the video, but you've got to at least
try to nudge the defenders with a look, and then throw it away if
nothing is there.
Second int: perfunctory playfake, looks to the middle only, then
instead
of throwing to the Pats 45 yard line where his receiver was coming
over from
the left to the middle, he threw it too far left and behind to the 40,
right where a defender was standing. It was zone coverage, at least
two receivers were open, the one he missed and one on his own 44 who
was wide open because the Pats linebacker had run into the ref.
Third int: again no attempt to look off defenders, stares down into
multiple coverage on the left side. There were 3 defenders on that
side, so there must have been someone more open on the right (can't
see on the video)
4th int: just a panic throw, he was scrambling hard to his left,
couldn't set and throw hard, just a floater that it was easy to
pick off. Someone like brady would have thrown it to the sideline
either left or hard right.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81467e0c/WK-11-Mark-Sanchez-highlights
What I see is classic stupid QB decision making, a la Jay Cutler/
Bledsoe. He never wants
to throw it away or dump it off to the outlet 5 yds past the line of
scrimmage. He always wants to make those 20yd seam passes
which he does make sometimes but he is going to have to start
taking what the defense gives him or he's not going anywhere. Now
is a good time for him to start learning to be more conservative
because the
Jets are out of the playoffs.
I remember Brady's first game. It was obvious that he was better than
Bledsoe because of his superior decision making. Nothing changed
that game or that year coaching wise, it was just Brady throwing it
away instead of forcing it, or dumping off to the outlet.
Rob
MZ
How come neither you nor Glenn recognize that a big part of the job of
an offensive assistant is to teach? Look, maybe Sanchez is uncoachable.
Maybe he's dumb as a rock. Or maybe the Jets offensive coaches don't
know how to coach him. I don't think any of us know the real answer to
it. Although I think it's no coincidence that the Jets offensive staff
hasn't been able to develop a QB worth a damn yet, or to get an
established one like Favre to perform.
Johnctx
The only measure of a coach is can he fix or hide a problem. I am not
sure of Callahan. I am not 100% confident in Schott. I think some of
the criticism is legit but our issues at WR are real. Having one TE who
is not agreat blocker is a big deal.
Movement on the line, WR & TE has been a problem all year. How many
times are we starting with 1st & 15? To me that is a real issue & gets
hung on Schott & Callahan.
Johnctx
In some of those losses he should have been sat down for some or the
balance of the game.
Like I said Kubiak might be available.
Rob
>
> > What I see is classic stupid QB decision making, a la Jay Cutler/
> > Bledsoe. He never wants
> > to throw it away or dump it off to the outlet 5 yds past the line of
> > scrimmage. He always wants to make those 20yd seam passes
> > which he does make sometimes but he is going to have to start
> > taking what the defense gives him or he's not going anywhere. Now
> > is a good time for him to start learning to be more conservative
> > because the
> > Jets are out of the playoffs.
>
> > I remember Brady's first game. It was obvious that he was better than
> > Bledsoe because of his superior decision making. Nothing changed
> > that game or that year coaching wise, it was just Brady throwing it
> > away instead of forcing it, or dumping off to the outlet.
> > Rob
>
> How come neither you nor Glenn recognize that a big part of the job of
> an offensive assistant is to teach? Look, maybe Sanchez is uncoachable.
> Maybe he's dumb as a rock. Or maybe the Jets offensive coaches don't
> know how to coach him. I don't think any of us know the real answer to
> it. Although I think it's no coincidence that the Jets offensive staff
> hasn't been able to develop a QB worth a damn yet, or to get an
>
> - Show quoted text -
How come some of you can't realize that no offensive coordinator
tells his QB to throw into tight triple coverage? Do you think
Schott has control over that kind of decision making in real time?
Favre looked like he was doing fine until he was injured.
Most good qb's come out of nowhere. Where is Matt Leinart
now? What was Pittsburgh doing until Roethlisberger came along?
They floundered for years with journeymen. You need a good
scouting department and smart management and luck to find
a good QB. My point is that Schott (or any offensive
coordinator) has very little to do with it. Brady is good because
he willed himself with his own work ethic to be good, not
because any OC made him that way.
Rob
MZ
Do you really think coaching is as easy as simply telling a QB whether
or not to throw into double coverage? That would be like saying to a
medical student who misdiagnosed someone, "Hey, nobody ever taught you
to misdiagnose." You seem to think that coaches don't have any impact
on rookie QBs. I don't know what to say to that.
Johnny Morongo
All of the early post-draft commentary on Sancho contained at least a
line or two about how smart he was, as well as how accurate. So, no,
he's NOT as dumb as a rock. And consider how really well spoken he is,
again arguing against that theory. Considering their success rate with
QBs, by process of elimination you gotta go with your second guess: It's
the coaching, stupid! ;)
Johnny Morongo
I'll say it again...I HATE agreeing with you.
Grinch
Of course part of the job is to teach.
And the learning you see from *good* teaching still depends on the
nature of the student -- is he a kindergarden kid or a grad student?
Also how capable is he?
Did this kid start four years at a top program? Or only one year of
the last four?
And good teachers always know you don't rush the student.
Remember Pete Carroll warning that Sanchez as a one-year college
starter wasn't ready for the pros yet? (Maybe Pete wasn't just trying
to keep his player another year).
Another thing about *good* teachers and coaches is they don't throw
students into the fire before they are ready -- both for the students'
sake and their own.
Quiting myself from earlier this year, HOF QBs who who were *not*
full-time starters as pro rookies...
~~
Ewbank sat Namath for half his rookie season ... Walsh sat Montana for
a season, and Steve Young was a backup for years ... Marino started
only 9 games as a rookie ... Staubach was a backup for four years ...
Bob Griese sat as a rookie .... Moon and Kelly both started as pros in
"minor leagues" before starting in the NFL ... John Elway sat six
games as a rookie ... Dan Fouts was a backup for years ...
Noll sat Terry Bradshaw, the #1 pick in the league, for five years --
and TB was picked for a 1-13 team, played behind Terry Hanratty and a
druggie.
That's a pretty good list of Hall of Famers (I checked, just about all
the recent ones) who did *not* start out playing all their games as
rookies, but who got ample rookie "sit time".
If Sanchez isn't ready -- and we want him to be a franchise QB for the
next decade -- it'll be a lot better to sit him until he becomes
ready, no matter how long it takes...
~~~
Where is the evidence on that list that good teaching makes a young QB
first-rate first-game, every game? Good enough to contend for a
division title? Or even good enough not to be sat down?
Hey, all those QBs had pretty good teachers and coaches. And *none*
carried the full load their first year as a pro -- they sat a good
part of their first year, if not a lot longer.
Maybe *that's* a sign of what good teaching and coaching involves?
>Look, maybe Sanchez is uncoachable.
> Maybe he's dumb as a rock. Or maybe the Jets offensive coaches don't
>know how to coach him. I don't think any of us know the real answer to
>it.
Maybe he's just a talented green kid thrown in way over his head.
Why should he be expected to be *more* able to play as a rookie than
Montana, Fouts, Elway (who in one game got confused and line up behind
guard) -- Bradshaw as a fourth-year player? All of whom played a lot
more in college than he did.
Noll couldn't teach? Those guys were all products of teaching failure?
Nooo ... *good* teachers bring students along at a pace they can
handle. Evidence above.
*Bad* teachers throw students into the fire -- and turn a guy Bill
Walsh called one of the best, most promsing young QBs he'd ever seen
into Rick Mirer.
>Although I think it's no coincidence that the Jets offensive staff
>hasn't been able to develop a QB worth a damn yet, or to get an
>established one like Favre to perform.
Now bad teaching caused Favre's arm muscle to rip for the last five
games?
It was Schott's fault!
Rob
<j.mireh...@harmonicconcordance.com> wrote:
> All of the early post-draft commentary on Sancho contained at least a
> line or two about how smart he was, as well as how accurate. So, no,
> he's NOT as dumb as a rock. And consider how really well spoken he is,
> again arguing against that theory. Considering their success rate with
> QBs, by process of elimination you gotta go with your second guess: It's
> the coaching, stupid! ;)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
It might be the coaching, but only if it's because Ryan is putting a
lot
of pressure on Sanchez to make big plays. It's not because of Schott's
schemes.
Rob
Michael
>
> >> What I see is classic stupid QB decision making, a la Jay Cutler/
> >> Bledsoe. He never wants
> >> to throw it away or dump it off to the outlet 5 yds past the line of
> >> scrimmage. He always wants to make those 20yd seam passes
> >> which he does make sometimes but he is going to have to start
> >> taking what the defense gives him or he's not going anywhere. Now
> >> is a good time for him to start learning to be more conservative
> >> because the
> >> Jets are out of the playoffs.
>
> >> I remember Brady's first game. It was obvious that he was better than
> >> Bledsoe because of his superior decision making. Nothing changed
> >> that game or that year coaching wise, it was just Brady throwing it
> >> away instead of forcing it, or dumping off to the outlet.
> >> Rob
>
> > How come neither you nor Glenn recognize that a big part of the job of
> > an offensive assistant is to teach? Look, maybe Sanchez is uncoachable.
> > Maybe he's dumb as a rock. Or maybe the Jets offensive coaches don't
> > know how to coach him. I don't think any of us know the real answer to
> > it. Although I think it's no coincidence that the Jets offensive staff
> > hasn't been able to develop a QB worth a damn yet, or to get an
> > established one like Favre to perform.
>
> In some of those losses he should have been sat down for some or the
> balance of the game.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
who would you rather have, kubiak or weiss ?
Johnctx
Ho you been fuzzy?
If you are driving through H town at Christmas again please call. I
need to feel good about myself!
:)
Johnctx
Good question, wow?
Both made careers as OC's with great QB's although Kubiak won with some
stiffs. I would say Kubiak as he has proven he can make RB's better.
I actually like Kubiak as a head coach. They are this close to being
good. The only game they were manhandled was ironically the Jets.
MZ
Do you believe that BS about Mirer's wasted career being a result of
PTSD? They say the same about Carr too. Players get over it. It makes
no sense to me how a poor first season can scar the guy for life. And
why is it ONLY particular to QBs and not other positions?
BTW, I didn't say Favre's crappy season was the result of poor teaching.
In fact, in another post I said the opposite. But it's curious that
he had such a bad season under Schott and Mangini... but not now. If
he's injured, then the gameplan needs to be tailored to accommodate
that. Or he needs to be benched. The coaching staff did neither.
MZ
> On Nov 24, 1:53 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Do you really think coaching is as easy as simply telling a QB whether
>> or not to throw into double coverage?
>
Then make your point a little clearer, because your stance that
offensive coordinators don't tell their QBs to throw into triple
coverage isn't a rebuttal of my point. You wouldn't feel the need to
say such things if you weren't trying to absolve the coach of blame by
making the point that the coach wasn't directing him to make that throw.
That was never the point by any of us, so it's only reasonable to
conclude that you brought that up because that's what you think a
coach's duty is.
Now, if you get on board with what we're saying about coaches as
"teachers", and address THAT point, then maybe we can continue the
discussion.
MZ
Do you think Schott's job only entails "scheming"?
MZ
I'm wondering whether John means for Kubiak to take over for Callahan.
It wouldn't happen though.
Weis is a proven OC.
MZ
That should read "Kubiak".
Michael
I've seen two distinct types of posts coming on the "Schott" matter.
The posters that see Schott as a liability generate commentary that I
would consider to be "information" and "exploration". The Pro-Schott
camp post what is usually "affirmation" and "distraction". No kidding
that Schott or any other coach does not advise qb's to throw into
triple coverage, stare down receivers and hold the ball improperly.
One of two things is going on here with Sanchez. Either he cant
learn, or he can and is not being coached properly. The better part
of the evidence points to the latter. Given the sophomoric nature of
the play calling this season and last season, in my evaluation, Schott
is a problem in general. The few times I've heard Schott speak or
give any account of things, I'm not surprised in the least that he
would have communication gaps with players. Such deficiencies would
hinder his ability to develop a green qb. I think that is what is
going on and Ryan knows it. Hence, he's getting involved.
Grinch
wrote:
>> or not to throw into double coverage? �
>
>No, I don't. What did I say in my post, did you read it?
>
>>That would be like saying to a
>> medical student who misdiagnosed someone, "Hey, nobody ever taught you
>> to misdiagnose." �
>
>Maybe, but I don't see what it has to do with what I said.
>
>>You seem to think that coaches don't have any impact
>> on rookie QBs. �I don't know what to say to that.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>That's not what I said. Michael seems to think that it's all
>Schott's fault, that somehow his schemes are causing
>Sanchez to throw into triple coverage. Coaches have
>impact, but coaching is not what's causing Sanchez to
>throw into triple coverages.
>Rob
The most important element in learning is *experience*.
Sanchez hasn't got it. Pete Carroll said Sanchez didn't have it.
Those last two turnovers on Sunday were just horrible "panicked
player" turnovers. Those come from not having enough experience to
know what the hell you are doing on the field under fire, whatever
they put on the blackboard for you, that you can recite with a 100%
score on a test or in practice.
There is no teaching substitute for experience.
In baseball it takes four years of minor league play, *playing*, for a
*good* player to go "straight up" to the majors.
That's not because of a lack of teaching from coaches, that's with
first-class teaching from coaches all along the way.
For the NFL the top college programs are the minor leagues.
Sanchez is a guy who sat on the bench for three years in the minor
leagues, played one year, then exercised a legal option to get himself
promoted to the majors when his minor league coach said he wasn't
ready yet. He's just not ready.
I'm not second guessing because I posted this in this newsgroup after
the Ravens pre-season game:
Sanchez makes enough nice to very good plays (e.g., such as we never
saw from Clemens) to indicate he could be a good NFL QB ... when the
plays are working the way they should, everything's under control, as
practiced. But when the other tean throws up some confusion, he's
under pressure, he has to improvise, his decision-making is a
disaster, like he's a *totally inexperienced novice*. Mr. Deer in
the Headlights.
Which is what he is -- and there is no way to teach around lack of
experience in short order. The player just has to get experience.
That's it. Look at the list of HoF QBs who sat for part of their first
season or a whole lot longer that I've posted.
This is squarely on REX, not effin' Schott.
Rex saw the same pre-season I did and a whole camp too.
If Rex wanted to spend a couple or three years building a team in his
image taking his lumps along the way, like Tom Coughlin did, he could
have said so and started a green rookie at QB, and we'd all be taking
this as the learning year it was supposed to be.
But with Rex pulling all the *win now* bluster, it was absolutely
stupid, irresponsible, to put all the team's chips on such a green
novice QB with such obvious decision-making problems due to
inexperience. Especially when the only other option is Clemens, whom
it seems Rex decided on day one is even worse than Sanchez on his
worst day.
To *win now* with the "big run, controlled passing, big D" strategy
Rex promised he *had* to bring in a sound, experienced game-management
QB who'd make the right calls, hit the high % passes, and not make any
dumb turnovers, in case Sanchez proved unready (as he did), and then
until Sanchez had learned and seen enough to take over.
Jeff Garcia would've been perfect for that. I know Garcia was
availlable because I heard him say so in an interview. He signed with
the Raiders instead for just this reason -- to be the starter long
enough to stabilize the team and give Russell a break from play to
catch up with things. Then Al "senile but used-to-be-a-genius" Davis
decided Russell was going to start anyhow, so Garcia quit. He'd have
rather done the same job for another team with a non-senile boss, but
the Jets never called.
But if not Garcia, someone else. It was *incomepetent* of Rex to
decide *win now* by gambling everything on a QB as inexperienced as
Sanchez, whose own prior coach said he wasn't ready, without having an
alternative option a lot better than Clemens.
That's not Schott's fault and it's not Sanchez's fault -- it's Rex's
fault (and maybe Tanny's and Woody's).
The *best* case with Sanchez now is the season is blown, and his
psyche and confidence are beaten up, and it will take him a while to
get over it, but he will and things will be OK in the end a couple
years from now, with just this season needlessly blown.
The *worst* case is they will destroy him as a talent by rushing him
into the fire before he was ready -- like Rick Mirer and a host of
other rushed "kid phenom" players that I could name in all pro sports,
whose teams rushed to "cash in on them" before they were ready.
Then where will they be?
Developing players need experience, *constructive* experience, there
is no substitute for it -- amd need to be *protected from trauma*.
If Don Shula in a *real* "win now" season trying to get back to the
Super Bowl sat rookie Dan Marino for a bunch of games in favor of a
couple no-name QBs -- and he did -- then wtf is it with Rex and
Sanchez that the problem has to be Schott? Rookie Sanchez is supposed
to be better than rookie Marino -- and because he isn't it's Schott's
fault?
Michael
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:29:20 -0800 (PST), Rob <rob44oven...@yahoo.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pete Carol had selfish reasons for wanting to keep Sanchez around.
Also... Sanchez played for two seasons on a college team that might as
well be an NFL team. Two years of USC type exposure and pressure is
worth more in the way of experience than four years of starting at
Marshal. Sanchez started out well and then he declined. It was not
his lack of experience at college. He is being poorly handled and
poorly coached. The Jets current staff shows NO ability to develop
qbs. In one way or another Schott has a good deal of responsibility
here. Either directly in not developing Sanchez himself, or
indirectly in not recognizing that the people he has working with
Sanchez are not cutting it.
Johnny Morongo
>
> Ho you been fuzzy?
>
Who yo callin' a Ho?
>
> If you are driving through H town at Christmas again please call.
>
Won't be driving through, flying over instead, on Christmas eve no less.
>
> I need to feel good about myself!
>
Sorry I can't help you with feeling good about yourself. It's such a
shame that you can't get that feeling by looking into the mirror,
especially with an over head light. ;)
Johnny Morongo
Another Straw man argument, Grinch. While I think you may be on to
something about the decision to start Sancho being on Rex AND Woody AND
Tranny, you are also totally shut down to what's been happening on the
field. If, for instance, the kid is struggling, why design a roll-out,
to his LEFT no less, and ask him to go way downfield ON THE FIRST PLAY
OF THE GAME? Or why, on so many second and longs, do even we know that
he's gonna throw? Admittedly he doesn't have the best talent, but he
exacerbates that problem by his shoe box calls and an obvious inability
to straighten Sancho's head out.
Or are you really Marty in disguise? Has Schott done no wrong? Seems
to me like you're stuck in a position that you now have to defend at all
costs. Maybe we all do this. At least you've got Glenn on your side,
but as they say, with friends like that, who needs enemies? ;)
Julio
>hinder his ability to develop a green qb. I think that is what is
>going on and Ryan knows it. Hence, he's getting involved.
More likely, Ryan is getting involved (and announcing it) because
the next opponent is Carolina, which is in the bottom of the league
for rush defense (26th), so Sanchez should look better just by
default because the Jets will run so much, and Ryan will get the
credit, at least he hopes. And the next two teams
just suck (although Buffalo already beat the Jets once). This
is like Billick taking away play calling from Fassel, just when
they played a couple of crappy teams next, so he looked good.
J.
papa.carl44
"Johnny Morongo" <j.mir...@harmonicconcordance.com> wrote in message
news:5KOdncNPfaF...@giganews.com...
Well put...
Glenn Greenstein
> > good time to pass. On top of it as I said before, these were not even
> > picks where the DB baited the QB by appearing to be playing off, these
> > were throws that should never have been made because the receiver was
> > covered. How you see them jumping the short routes when the DB is
> > actually standing right next to the WR has me shaking my head. On top
> > of it the receiver never even had a chance to get the ball, it was as
> > if he was throwing it to the DB. SO after a pass falls incomplete, you
> > want to see him throw it again? Running the ball sets up a shorter
> > first down even if it was by 2 yards. I see a lot of teams work the
> > downs in this same manner.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> like mr. miagi said... no such thing as bad student.. only bad
> teacher... right about now, over 50 % of the fans that i know realize
> that schott is the larger problem that the jets have right now. it is
> creating spinn-off issues. sanchez is not improving and the defense
> is dispirited as a result of pathetic offensive results.
Now we are quoting B movies as Gospel. Freaking genius. I guess Vernon
Gholston, Kellen Clemens, and Clowney are all potential Pro Bowl
players. It's not there fault they play poorly, it's the teacher.
I really cant believe people are saying he is getting worse, he is
actually yo yo-ing. For a few games he had really bad QB ratings and
then he was in the 100's the next few games and now he is back to
bad.
He is obviously pressing and trying to be a hero instead of letting
the players around him help. He has to learn not to force it.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
he has to learn a lot of things... you are correct... i guess he just
has to come to all of it on his own, the same way you learn to read
and write... oh... wait... you have... A TEACHER for that... i almost
forgot...
Rob
> he has to learn a lot of things... you are correct... i guess he just
> has to come to all of it on his own, the same way you learn to read
> and write... oh... wait... you have... A TEACHER for that... i almost
> forgot...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Kids need teachers for the same reason they need to be told
to take out the trash. Adults can learn on their own, and nobody
needs to be taught not to throw into tight triple coverage.
Rob
Michael
I dont think Ryan needs to be told to take out the trash. He's going
to be directly involved in functions that should be done by Schott.
He smells the trash and the next step will be to take it to the curb
at the end of the season.
MZ
So, despite your protest, it seems I wasn't that far off in my
characterization of your stance...
Rob
Honestly, I don't think you can understand English.
There are many things that coaches can teach young QB's because
of their experience. However, nobody with half a brain needs to be
taught not to throw into tight triple coverage. I learned that playing
touch football 35 years ago.
Rob
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
no one with half a brain would defend schott. he screws up the
offense and that includes sanchez. i'm sure rex knows it now given
his recent commentary on his involvement with the offense. that also
gives me confidence that rex will bring in a bonafied offensive
assistant next season. when the jets offense shows its first signs of
continuity and consistent production next year, you may still be
defending schott.
Rob
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm not defending Schott. Schott may be a good, bad or mediocre OC,
but Sanchez' decision making is just that, HIS decision making. What
distinguishes great QB's from the rest is DECISION MAKING, not
laser beams into the slot or nice long rainbow passes.
Rob
Glenn Greenstein
In all honesty, I was kind of shocked with Res's admission he is going
to be more involved with the O and ST. WTF was he doing before? He is
the HC, not some asst. You want to talk about someone learning the
ropes, it's Rex.
Glenn Greenstein
And I still don't see how anyone can judge Schott with Sanchez
throwing away games with T/O.
Johnctx
No I was saying Kubiak as OC.
Kubiak was an assistant coach for two years at A&M & SF. He was ten
year OC for Shanahan. In addition to that he made a conscious decision
to stay at Denver as a back up behind Elway rather than sign elsewhere
and was effectively, by many accounts, he was a QB/ assistant coach for
much of his time as a player. He was a successful OC under 3 different
QB's at Denver.
Weis is a good Oc but I would chose Kubiak if the Texans are dumb enough
to dump him because of his track record. Weis had Henning at the Jets
and Brady in NE. Kubiak had Shanahan & Elway but also made Griese &
Plummer look very good.
Johnctx
Michael, I have known many very good coaches who have trouble in
speaking in public. One is in NE but on a personal level I have seen
guys that would come off as near retarded as they hate public speaking
but are brilliant at their craft. Tear into Schott for his play calling,
resume, etc. but because he can't speak in public i would take as a good
thing. Maybe he actually cares about coaching more than getting the
next job by looking smart.
Johnctx
LOL, I guess I will have to go to the Italian American club and talk to
your cousins.
:)
Have a good Thanksgiving.
pax
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
John... I'm gonna yield here.... You are 100 % correct that public
speaking has little or nothing to do with interpersonal communication
or even communication in a private setting. One is not a sure
indication of the other.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm not sure about Weiss at all now. I was when he left for ND, but
not now. Kubiac I would have a lot more faith in also. I thoughy
Haley was a talent when he was with Arizona. Given what is going on
at KC and what is going on at AZ currently, I'd say Haley got a good
reputation due to Ken Wisenhunt, Warner, Boldin and Fitz. Same way
Weiss got credit for the crew at NE. Obviously, Kubiac made his own
way. Still... If Weiss was available, I'd like to have him over our
current guy.
Johnctx
Michael, it is the day before Thanksgiving so I will refrain from
calling you a tool, idiot or potty boy.
:)
What about public speaking and to use your term "interpersonal
communication or even communication in a private setting" do you have
trouble differentiating?
Michael
I'll accept the 15 yard penalty for piling on...
> What about public speaking and to use your term "interpersonal
> communication or even communication in a private setting" do you have
> trouble differentiating?- Hide quoted text -
Lots of times if people cant express themselves before the public,
they cant do so in person either. Not the case all the time, but it
is some of the time. As a matter of fact, lots of people who are
very good public speakers cant move quickly on their feet or
articulate to a communications goal interpersonally. With public
speaking comes preparation and anticipated boundaries that are not
part of interpersonal communications.
MZ
> On Nov 25, 11:44 am, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Rob wrote:
>>> On Nov 25, 10:50 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> he has to learn a lot of things... you are correct... i guess he just
>>>> has to come to all of it on his own, the same way you learn to read
>>>> and write... oh... wait... you have... A TEACHER for that... i almost
>>>> forgot...- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Kids need teachers for the same reason they need to be told
>>> to take out the trash. Adults can learn on their own, and nobody
>>> needs to be taught not to throw into tight triple coverage.
>>> Rob
>> So, despite your protest, it seems I wasn't that far off in my
>> characterization of your stance...
>
> Honestly, I don't think you can understand English.
Que?
> There are many things that coaches can teach young QB's because
> of their experience. However, nobody with half a brain needs to be
> taught not to throw into tight triple coverage. I learned that playing
> touch football 35 years ago.
You're oversimplifying the job. It seems your learning stopped 35 years
ago.
Johnny Morongo
>
> Have a good Thanksgiving.
>
> pax
Hey, BronxBro, right back atcha 'n your'n too!
Did he really write that?
:)
papa.carl44
"Rob" <rob44o...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8debca9d-4fec-4f47...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Rob
There we disagree.....QB's especially young ones need a good teacher. VT
attributes the 98 season's success to Dan Henning.....Doug Williams the
same....and look what Henning was able to do when he wound up with Ray Lucas
as the QB....he kept the season alive. Coaching a QB is extremely
important....and beyond that, how you treat the guy and the relationship is
even more important. The QB coach needs to be a top communicator and
someone who has the complete trust and confidence of the player. That is
how you develop a good QB.
papa.carl44
Rob
Ummmm, except when a top QB throws into tight triple coverage and makes the
play. Moss can make a play like that on occasion, TO used to.....the issue
is more of timing and control, AND.....the kid needs to be taught how to see
what the coverages are, and this ain't touch football with some half speed
buddies.
papa.carl44
Rob
And you don't think decision making is coached ? Damn, I wonder what I was
doing for all those years....here I was teaching LB's how to make good
decisions and one of my colleagues was teaching young QB's how to make good
decisions...guess we had it all wrong.
Michael
wrote:
> "Rob" <rob44oven...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Papa... I can tell from this answer that you did a lot more than just
WATCH football. For a lot of fans that are looking for reasons why
some teams do great while there teams dont with the same amount of
money... This answers it. It is beyond the X's and O's to be at a
high level.
papa.carl44
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:8b183f50-0158-4db2...@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
I imagine a lot of guys in this group would call me a liar, but for many
years football was my life. There was a brief period in the early 70's when
I had a hiatus, but then went right back and stuck with it till about 1990.
I had several jobs and got to work with some great people. Even after I
left coaching I stayed close to the game and had friends who were coaching
in some very good jobs. I think people not actively involved just don't
understand that a high school coach can actually have a close working and
friendship type relationship with a college or NFL coach. I feel like I
benefited quite a bit from some of those type things. I really left the
game to see my son play in college and then just went a totally different
directin career wise. I've never like staying in one place too long in
terms of what I am doing, it's been good for me that way. And, I still have
friends closely involved with the game. It is about personal relationships
and it is all about being able to communicate first, then motivate and
always be consistent. OMHO, Papa Carl