Another take on Jets-Pats. FOers game commentary. FWIW.

[Grinch]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2012/audibles-line-week-7

New York Jets 26 at New England Patriots 29

Vince Verhei: Did Phil Simms just say that the Jets' choice to defer
meant Tom Brady wouldn't get a chance at a late drive? He does know
that teams alternate possessions in this game, right?

Ben Muth: Donald Thomas (starting for an injured Logan Mankins) starts
blocking the linebacker, then tries to come off on the defensive
tackle on a stunt. He ends up blocking neither, and the pressure
forces Brady to throw it away on first down.

Vince Verhei: More New England sloppiness: Pats go three-and-out on
their first drive. There is confusion on the punt team, and somebody
calls timeout to avoid a penalty. Because it's MUCH better to punt on
fourth-and-9 than fourth-and-14. Bill Belichick teams never used to
make these kind of mistakes.

Aaron Schatz: Oh, wait, it gets better. The Pats get caught with
Brandon Deaderick running off the field on third-and-2 from the 4.
Problem: He's the 11th guy. He realizes it, turns around, and gets in
position in time for Tim Tebow to gain three. Then three Pats go off,
and one comes on the field... then another comes on the field... wait,
where's the third guy? Where's the third guy?

Yes, the Jets just scored a touchdown with 10 Pats on the field.

Andy, this is the kind of thing you love in the Pats-Jets game. Pats
are using 3-tight end personnel on this drive, but out of an
empty-back look.

Andy Benoit: Pats three-tight end personnel comes with a mild
asterisk, though, considering two of those tight ends are better
receivers than 80 percent of NFL wideouts (and 100 percent of Jets
wideouts). But yeah, love when teams control the game through use of
specific personnel.

Mike Kurtz: Mark Sanchez throws an incredibly ugly lame duck
interception from around the Patriots' 40, despite Shonn Greene
standing wide open with no other player within 20 yards as the outlet.
What is wrong with this guy? Seriously.

Aaron Schatz: Pats get caught in one of their weird zones where nobody
in the press box is sure what on earth they're trying to do, and
Alfonzo Dennard lets the receiver go past him but Tavon Wilson doesn't
come over to pick him up until super late. So it sure was nice of
Sanchez to underthrow his receiver by six or seven yards and hand the
Pats a pick on what should have been an easy touchdown.

Sean McCormick: Hill was open had Sanchez thrown it in a timely
manner. That said, the ball should have gone to Greene.

Aaron Schatz: Not just a timely manner, but a "five yards further,
actually in the end zone" manner.

Danny Tuccitto: On that Sanchez interception you guys just mentioned,
I get that he was late throwing the ball, but MY GOD the ball hung in
the air forever. And it looked like he put every last ounce of effort
into it. So what gives? Is there a 40 mile per hour wind at Gillette
today? (Just got back into town 15 minutes ago from a wedding,
watching game at a sports bar with no sound.) Is his arm strength
*that* bad? Did he bet on New England?

Sean McCormick: It's almost as if the ball slipped out of Sanchez's
hand. He still could have hit Hill, late as the throw was, had he put
some heat on the rifle.

Aaron Schatz: Major disagreement at Gillette at halftime. Some of us
think the Pats should be up by like three scores and are leaving
points all over the field. Others think the Jets seem to be totally in
control and are a couple of stupid mistakes away from a lead.

Hmmmm ... we may all be correct.

Vince Verhei: It is kind of funny. I'm watching it thinking New
England is dominating, but if you take away special teams, the Jets
are actually winning on offense and defense. (It's 16-10 in the third
quarter, with seven of New England's points coming on a kickoff
return.)

If I have a third-and-1 inside the 10, I like a Tebow run a lot more
than a Sanchez-to-Chaz Schilens slant route. Tony Sparano disagrees,
and the Jets get a field goal instead of a go-ahead touchdown.

Aaron Schatz: We need to sit the TV announcers all down and explain to
them how the new automatic challenge rules work, because they keep
announcing that coach such-and-such has thrown a challenge flag when
coach such-and-such has done no such thing, and then everyone on
Twitter wants to know where the unsportsmanlike penalty is. This
happened with Pete Carroll last week, if I remember correctly, and
happened with Belichick today.

By the way, the Pats avoided having to start Nate "the rugby guy"
Ebner at safety by moving Devin McCourty back there, like in last
year's playoffs. That's also why we're actually seeing Ras-I Dowling
on the field in nickel situations.

Danny Tuccitto: Soooo ... the Patriots take a lead into the fourth
quarter again. Hope you're not having Week 6 flashbacks, Aaron.

Aaron Schatz: The Jets have Jeremy Kerley open on a corner route at
will, to the point where you wonder why they aren't using it more.

Jets are taking a ton of time off the clock in the fourth quarter,
which is hugely important when you are losing by 10.

Andy Benoit: On Sanchez's touchdown to Dustin Keller, it looked like
he was throwing to Kerley and missed perfectly. Not saying he
absolutely was looking for Kerley ... but I can't imagine he'd try to
fit the ball into such a tight back window like that.

Danny Tuccitto: After the Jets touchdown to make it 23-20, guess I can
put to bed my question about Sanchez's wounded duck earlier. That
touchdown pass had contrails. For whoever it was supposed to be aimed
at.

Aaron Schatz: Pats get ball with 5:40 left. Brandon Lloyd gets called
for an iffy push-off pass interference that is no different from
something Stephen Hill did on previous drive (neither was really
worthy of a flag) and every Patriots fan sees his heart drop through
his chest. They're going to punt the ball back and let the Jets take
the lead. Amazing.

Vince Verhei: Sanchez takes a 10-yard sack on third down, severely
hurting the Jets' odds of making a go-ahead field goal. Highlights of
this game should be accompanied by the Bulk & Skull from Mighty
Morphin Power Rangers. At least Nick Folk bailed him out by hitting
the 43-yarder.

Aaron Schatz: The Patriots drive down the field for Stephen
Gostkowski's game-tying last-second field goal looked surprisingly
easy. We'll have to see what happens here in overtime.

Danny Tuccitto: Love the first bullet point on CBS' Powerpoint slide
of the overtime rules: "Coin flip decides possession." Somewhere,
Marty Mornhinweg and Phil Luckett just simultaneously flipped a bird
at the television.

Aaron Schatz: A back shoulder throw to Aaron Hernandez on the outside
is the wrong throw to try to make when you desperately need a
third-and-long in overtime. They get lucky when an official calls a
somewhat questionable pass interference on Kyle Wilson.

So what happens when they get into the same situation a minute late?
SAME DAMN PLAY. This time, no DPI, no conversion. Gostkowski hits a
48-yard field goal. Now they have to stop the Jets offense from
scoring a touchdown. Uh... good luck with that.

J.J. Cooper: I had to put the kids to bed so I am late writing this,
but could the Jets have shown less faith in Sanchez on their final
drive of regulation? They get the gift fumble recovery and have the
ball with 2:01 remaining. With the two-minute warning and three
Patriots timeouts, if the Jets get a first down they can pretty much
line up for the game-winning field goal as time runs out. But if they
don't get a first down, they know they will give the Pats the ball
back with plenty of time. So what do they do? Run the ball up the
middle twice and then run a very safe West Coast tight end drag with a
rollout that still results in a sack. Hello overtime.

Mike Kurtz: Only the Jets could get the ball at the two-minute warning
at their opponent's 20-yard line with the game tied and lose in
overtime.

Andy Benoit: Sanchez and Kerley connected several times for crucial
passes outside the numbers to the right side of the field. That’s a
key thing you have to defend in New York’s offense.

Aaron Schatz: It's almost like the Pats had no idea that their
weak-ass zones would leave that open.

The Pats win and get relief, but Houston fans should feel a lot better
about their Super Bowl chances, and Denver fans should feel a bit
better, after watching how Baltimore and New England played today.

[Johnny Morongo]

> passes outside the numbers to the right side of the field. That�s a
> key thing you have to defend in New York�s offense.

>
> Aaron Schatz: It's almost like the Pats had no idea that their
> weak-ass zones would leave that open.
>
> The Pats win and get relief, but Houston fans should feel a lot better
> about their Super Bowl chances, and Denver fans should feel a bit
> better, after watching how Baltimore and New England played today.
>

IOW, Sanchez STILL SUCKS!

[MZ]

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 7:34:51 PM UTC-4, Grinch wrote:

> Vince Verhei: Did Phil Simms just say that the Jets' choice to defer
>
> meant Tom Brady wouldn't get a chance at a late drive? He does know
>
> that teams alternate possessions in this game, right?

It's so obnoxious that people actually think there's a benefit in # possessions choosing one over the other. I was pretty much drummed out of a Pats discussion because I had the audacity to say that there's nothing special about scoring at the end of the first half and beginning of the second half.

> Ben Muth: Donald Thomas (starting for an injured Logan Mankins) starts
>
> blocking the linebacker, then tries to come off on the defensive
>
> tackle on a stunt. He ends up blocking neither, and the pressure
>
> forces Brady to throw it away on first down.

This was awful, and I think it was on the very first play of the game, IIRC. If you want an example of a guy who can run block but not pass block, it's not Wayne Hunter... it's Donald Thomas.

> Andy Benoit: Pats three-tight end personnel comes with a mild
>
> asterisk, though, considering two of those tight ends are better
>
> receivers than 80 percent of NFL wideouts (and 100 percent of Jets
>
> wideouts). But yeah, love when teams control the game through use of
>
> specific personnel.

Bingo. The Pats do this well. The Jets don't. The Jets desperately need a 2nd TE to provide some sort of flexibility in their playcalls. With 2 TE on the field, you can pass out of that arrangement or you can run. When you have a "blocking TE", like the bums on the Jets roster, you're basically only putting 10 guys on the field if you opt to pass out of that formation. The lack of that 11th guy has been one of the biggest Jets weaknesses over the past several years. TE is priority #1 for this team this offseason. I've said that before.

Really, when you look at the Jets offensive roster, they might have a good foundation. I know that's heresy in this newsgroup, but look at it this way. [Johnny will disagree...]

* The five starting OL are a pretty good group. Do they have their deficiencies? Yes... (slow guards, historically poor run blocking from DBrick, etc). But overall they're not a big problem because they can generate push in the running game and none of them are sieves in the passing game now that they've found a Hunter replacement.
* The WRs can be a good group (Santonio's attitude issues notwithstanding). If Hill can emerge, I think they might be in good shape. Kerley is a player. So their needs here hinge on what Hill becomes.
* The RB position has been a problem, but Powell might be ok and Greene can get some tough yards as a #2 RB. McKnight makes the team by virtue of his special teams contributions. I thought he ran well Sunday. They could use another player here.
* QB is obviously a problem, but it's a tough one to fix given the cap implications. I like Grinch's idea of bringing in a Jeff Garcia type to challenge Sanchez next year. Or, they can figure out how to use Tebow.
* TE is the other big problem. Keller is a good, but not great, receiving TE. But a ground and pound team needs a guy who can block and be a receiving threat, especially in the red zone and on third downs. That's what they're used for, and that's what a ground and pound offense is designed to produce: third and short. This is an essential need, and they missed their opportunity to grab a Pettigrew or Gronkowski in the draft in recent years, even though it was a glaring need.

> Mike Kurtz: Mark Sanchez throws an incredibly ugly lame duck
>
> interception from around the Patriots' 40, despite Shonn Greene
>
> standing wide open with no other player within 20 yards as the outlet.
>
> What is wrong with this guy? Seriously.

That's Sanchez's problem in a nutshell...

> J.J. Cooper: I had to put the kids to bed so I am late writing this,
>
> but could the Jets have shown less faith in Sanchez on their final
>
> drive of regulation? They get the gift fumble recovery and have the
>
> ball with 2:01 remaining. With the two-minute warning and three
>
> Patriots timeouts, if the Jets get a first down they can pretty much
>
> line up for the game-winning field goal as time runs out. But if they
>
> don't get a first down, they know they will give the Pats the ball
>
> back with plenty of time. So what do they do? Run the ball up the
>
> middle twice and then run a very safe West Coast tight end drag with a
>
> rollout that still results in a sack. Hello overtime.

...And that's Uncle Tony's.

[Johnny Morongo]

On 10/24/2012 7:25 AM, MZ wrote:
>
>
> Bingo. The Pats do this well. The Jets don't. The Jets desperately need a 2nd TE to provide some sort of flexibility in their playcalls. With 2 TE on the field, you can pass out of that arrangement or you can run. When you have a "blocking TE", like the bums on the Jets roster, you're basically only putting 10 guys on the field if you opt to pass out of that formation. The lack of that 11th guy has been one of the biggest Jets weaknesses over the past several years. TE is priority #1 for this team this offseason. I've said that before.
>
> Really, when you look at the Jets offensive roster, they might have a good foundation. I know that's heresy in this newsgroup, but look at it this way. [Johnny will disagree...]
>
> * The five starting OL are a pretty good group. Do they have their deficiencies? Yes... (slow guards, historically poor run blocking from DBrick, etc). But overall they're not a big problem because they can generate push in the running game and none of them are sieves in the passing game now that they've found a Hunter replacement.
> * The WRs can be a good group (Santonio's attitude issues notwithstanding). If Hill can emerge, I think they might be in good shape. Kerley is a player. So their needs here hinge on what Hill becomes.
> * The RB position has been a problem, but Powell might be ok and Greene can get some tough yards as a #2 RB. McKnight makes the team by virtue of his special teams contributions. I thought he ran well Sunday. They could use another player here.
> * QB is obviously a problem, but it's a tough one to fix given the cap implications. I like Grinch's idea of bringing in a Jeff Garcia type to challenge Sanchez next year. Or, they can figure out how to use Tebow.
> * TE is the other big problem. Keller is a good, but not great, receiving TE. But a ground and pound team needs a guy who can block and be a receiving threat, especially in the red zone and on third downs. That's what they're used for, and that's what a ground and pound offense is designed to produce: third and short. This is an essential need, and they missed their opportunity to grab a Pettigrew or Gronkowski in the draft in recent years, even though it was a glaring need.
>

Johnny Does NOT disagree, on the whole. D'Brick is notoriously mediocre
in all phases)

>
>
>> Mike Kurtz: Mark Sanchez throws an incredibly ugly lame duck
>>
>> interception from around the Patriots' 40, despite Shonn Greene
>>
>> standing wide open with no other player within 20 yards as the outlet.
>>
>> What is wrong with this guy? Seriously.
>
>
> That's Sanchez's problem in a nutshell...
>
>

IOW, Sanchez still sucks.

>> J.J. Cooper: I had to put the kids to bed so I am late writing this,
>>
>> but could the Jets have shown less faith in Sanchez on their final
>>
>> drive of regulation? They get the gift fumble recovery and have the
>>
>> ball with 2:01 remaining. With the two-minute warning and three
>>
>> Patriots timeouts, if the Jets get a first down they can pretty much
>>
>> line up for the game-winning field goal as time runs out. But if they
>>
>> don't get a first down, they know they will give the Pats the ball
>>
>> back with plenty of time. So what do they do? Run the ball up the
>>
>> middle twice and then run a very safe West Coast tight end drag with a
>>
>> rollout that still results in a sack. Hello overtime.
>
>
> ...And that's Uncle Tony's.
>

And Uncle Tony is on Rex...Who is on Tanny...who is on Woody...who has
his head up his ass...as does every other ejit who wants Romney as
Preident, or Obama for that matter. I digress.