NY Giants Chronicles: Bob Tucker

[DoctorElefant]

Great footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvLq7QSCvqA

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DocE


"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
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[hatsnbats]

On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 04:44:51 -0800 (PST), DoctorElefant
<Doctor...@aol.com> wrote:

>Great footage.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvLq7QSCvqA
>

Yup it is the 70s all over again but thanks for the link it is great
footage. Nice to see all those names and at Yankee Stadium (where I
saw my first few games). Tucker has aged well I think, good for him.
One thing I always notice when looking at any old film is just how
regular sized all these guys were. Not only are football players all
bulked out these days (naturally or otherwise) but society as a whole
is fighting an obesity epidemic.

Hats N Bats

--

[hatsnbats]

On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 04:44:51 -0800 (PST), DoctorElefant
<Doctor...@aol.com> wrote:

>Great footage.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvLq7QSCvqA
>

I've always wondered, if the NFL has all these games in the vault, why
don't they digitize them and stream them for say $2.00 a view. This
way if I want to see the 1970s games or even earlier, I can pick and
choose and watch. There's a lot of revenue to be had there IMO.

Btw I just saw one clip of Tucker going into the endzone and the
"pylon" as we know it today is a red flag on a stick!

Hats N Bats

--

[Lubow]

"DoctorElefant" <Doctor...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:75059ed0-09c9-4d56...@googlegroups.com...

To show the dedication of Tucker, he was discovered while playing for
peanuts with the Westchester Bulls, the Giants' farm team in the ACL, just
out of love of the game

[Nelson]

Doc...............fantastic! It sure brought back a lot of memories. One thing I did NOT remember at all was Joe Morrison dropping what looked to be a 99 yard TD pass (although, even if he had caught it, with his speed back then, he would have probably been caught from behind by a D lineman before he reached
mid-field). The other thing I had no recollection of was of Tucker playing THREE AND A HALF years with Minn. I thought he played his entire career with the Giants. Thanks for posting this....

[Minnesota Fats]

Tucker was one of the few bright lights in the Toilet Bowl Era. He was not only the leading Giant receiver, but the best tight end of that era, Amazingly, he was never named to the Pro Bowl.

[hatsnbats]

Exluding Tarkenton the bright lights wereTucker, Ron Johnson,Tucker
Fredrickson, Pete Gogolak and Spider Lockhart. I never forgave Fred
Dryer for going to the Rams....

Honorable mention to Bobby Duhon solely because his name always struck
me as memorable :)

Hats N Bats

--

[Lubow]

"Hats N Bats" wrote in message
news:afjs7a1j3t153ikhd...@4ax.com...

> Exluding Tarkenton the bright lights wereTucker, Ron Johnson,Tucker
> Fredrickson, Pete Gogolak and Spider Lockhart. I never forgave Fred
> Dryer for going to the Rams....
>
> Honorable mention to Bobby Duhon solely because his name always struck
> me as memorable :)
>
> Hats N Bats
>
> --

You have Tucker Frederickson, who did almost nothing, in your list but
omitted Homer Jones?

Frederickson averaged a whopping 3.4 yds/rush and for a six year career
scored an "amazing" EIGHT TDs. To me, Frederickson is just another one of
Wellington's first round Never-Beens joining the likes of Francis Peay, Joe
Don Looney, Rocky Thompson, Steve Filipowicz, Jim Files, Eldridge Small.

OTOH... Jones led the NFL in receiving TDs in 1967 and averaged a rather
amazing 24.7 y/r. Jones' career yards per reception (22.3) is still an NFL
record for receivers recording at least 200 receptions.

I give Allie Sherman a lot of credit for benching his aging star, Del
Shofner, to make Jones his starting WR. Do you think TC would bench a
multi-year PB star for a 20th round draft pick? Just askin'.

[hatsnbats]

On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 19:26:00 -0500, "Lubow" <dynami...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Hats N Bats" wrote in message
>news:afjs7a1j3t153ikhd...@4ax.com...
>
>> Exluding Tarkenton the bright lights wereTucker, Ron Johnson,Tucker
>> Fredrickson, Pete Gogolak and Spider Lockhart. I never forgave Fred
>> Dryer for going to the Rams....
>>
>> Honorable mention to Bobby Duhon solely because his name always struck
>> me as memorable :)
>>
>> Hats N Bats
>>
>> --
>
>You have Tucker Frederickson, who did almost nothing, in your list but
>omitted Homer Jones?

I was only quoting names I remember from my childhood. I don't recall
seeing Homer play and my Dad is not alive to tell me if I did. I was
only 9 in 1970 and just starting to watch at that point. As a point of
interest, my all time favorite Giant receiver is Coleman Zeno a one
year wonder who played a couple of games in 1971 and then disappeared.
I doubt his stats will compare to Homer's either....

>Frederickson averaged a whopping 3.4 yds/rush and for a six year career
>scored an "amazing" EIGHT TDs. To me, Frederickson is just another one of
>Wellington's first round Never-Beens joining the likes of Francis Peay, Joe
>Don Looney, Rocky Thompson, Steve Filipowicz, Jim Files, Eldridge Small.
>
>OTOH... Jones led the NFL in receiving TDs in 1967 and averaged a rather
>amazing 24.7 y/r. Jones' career yards per reception (22.3) is still an NFL
>record for receivers recording at least 200 receptions.
>
>I give Allie Sherman a lot of credit for benching his aging star, Del
>Shofner, to make Jones his starting WR. Do you think TC would bench a
>multi-year PB star for a 20th round draft pick? Just askin'.

If TC were coaching in 1965 or whatever year you are referring to, I'd
say yes. In today's era, obviously not or we'd be watching Nassib come
Sunday. I arbitrarily use the free agency era of football as the
delineator for what was once a great game and what is now a great
business.

I love the fact that I grew up watching the 70s and 80s era football,
it was the perfect storm where a great game came into its own as a
great sport. I wouldn't trade it for today's "football" for anything.

Also, while I can appreciate all the great football before I started
watching, it doesn't hold my interest because a] I didn't live through
it and it doesn't have the emotional effect on me and b] the game, the
players and society's treatment of it are completely different.

Simple example, my Dad was at "The Greatest Game Ever Played" he
talked about that game in such great detail 50 years after he was at
it, but for me it's a black and white video where the Giants lost the
game that ushered football into everyone's homes. My greatest moment
was the 1986 conference championship game until of course the 2007 SB.
I've been to five SBs but that one will always be the greatest for me
even though Steeler fans might site the very next SB as their greatest
moment...

Hats N Bats

--

[Minnesota Fats]

Larry Wilson, the old Cardinal DB, loves to tell this on himself. Giants were inside the 10, but Jones lined up in the wrong place, giving Wilson a clear shot at Fran. "Fran's up to one of his tricks," Wilson thought so he decided to lay back. Fran took the snap, and waltzed untouched into the end zone.

[Lubow]

"Minnesota Fats" <ber...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:64e936e2-79f2-4843...@googlegroups.com...

> Larry Wilson, the old Cardinal DB, loves to tell this on himself. Giants
> were inside the 10, but Jones lined up in the wrong place, giving Wilson a
> clear shot at Fran. "Fran's up to one of his tricks," Wilson thought so
> he decided to lay back. Fran took the snap, and waltzed untouched into
> the end zone.

There's something to be said about QBs calling their own plays. OTOH the
current system would put any future Al deRogatis out of business. Al was
the expert at detecting the tells (which, unfortunately, he was not
permitted to do when he moved to NBC). Repeating for the nth time my two
favorites:

(1) "Marty, I see Del Shofner talking to YA on the way back to the huddle.
He's telling him he could beat Brady Keys [the Pittsburgh CB] on a square
out."
Sure enough, the next play was a 30+ yard completion to Shofner.

(2) On a 3rd and 5: "Marty, Pittsburgh's linebackers are dropping back
deeply on every obvious passing down. Look for a draw play to Phil King."
Yes, the next play was a draw play with King recording a first down.

[Minnesota Fats]

Marty and DeRo were absolutely priceless in the booth. During those blackout years, they made the game come alive. When the Giants were on TV, I'd mute my TV audio and listen to them on NY's WNEW. Then there was William B. Williams with, "Some time in the second half, look for the Statue of Liberty play." Couldn't get any better than that. Great memories.

[DoctorElefant]

On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 6:26:02 PM UTC-6, Lubow wrote:

Frederickson played well in 1970. All taped up, he was catching a lot of passes, throwing blocks for Ron Johnson, and grinding out some tough yards himself. That 9 wins in 10 games run was all the fun we had until the LT days began. 1970 was huge for Giants fans the same age as me and Hats. We were literally babies during the YA days, and had to suffer what Jerry Izenberg dubbed the "18 years in the wilderness" before we found something to cheer about.

[Lubow]

"DoctorElefant" <Doctor...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:f5898c63-c093-47b4...@googlegroups.com...

> Frederickson played well in 1970. All taped up, he was catching a lot of
> passes, throwing blocks for Ron Johnson, and grinding out some tough yards
> himself. That 9 wins in 10 games run was all the fun we had until the LT
> days began. 1970 was huge for Giants fans the same age as me and Hats. We
> were literally babies during the YA days, and had to suffer what Jerry
> Izenberg dubbed the "18 years in the wilderness" before we found something
> to cheer about.

Frederickson 1970 stats:

4 TDs, 8 fumbles, 3.1 yds/rush, 10.2 yds/recept

1970 was not a bad year. Team went 9-5 and beat the Jets for the first
time.

[Minnesota Fats]

Giants actually had a shot at the playoffs in 1970. They went into the last game needing a win over the LA Rams, but Roman Gabriel took them to school. Giants were crushed 31-3.

[DoctorElefant]

On Monday, December 8, 2014 9:37:09 AM UTC-6, Lubow wrote:

> "DoctorElefant" <Doctor...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:f5898c63-c093-47b4...@googlegroups.com...
>
> > Frederickson played well in 1970. All taped up, he was catching a lot of
> > passes, throwing blocks for Ron Johnson, and grinding out some tough yards
> > himself. That 9 wins in 10 games run was all the fun we had until the LT
> > days began. 1970 was huge for Giants fans the same age as me and Hats. We
> > were literally babies during the YA days, and had to suffer what Jerry
> > Izenberg dubbed the "18 years in the wilderness" before we found something
> > to cheer about.
>
> Frederickson 1970 stats:
>
> 4 TDs, 8 fumbles, 3.1 yds/rush, 10.2 yds/recept

Yes, those are good numbers. This is 1964 through 1980 Giants we're talking about. Frederickson carried the ball whenever Johnson did not, plus he was the short yardage guy and did a lot of blocking for Johnson.

Rushing Rush Yds Avg TD
Ron Johnson 263 1027 3.9 8
Tucker Frederickson 120 375 3.1 1

Frederickson also caught the same number of passes as Bob Tucker, plus he averaged slightly higher YPC than Johnson.

Receiving Rec Yds Avg TD
Clifton McNeil 50 764 15.3 4
Ron Johnson 48 487 10.1 4
Bob Tucker 40 571 14.3 5
Tucker Frederickson 40 408 10.2 3

It was also one of only two seasons in which Frederickson was physically able to play in every game.

> 1970 was not a bad year.

That's what I was trying to say. It was the best year of the 5-year rebuilding plan; the plan that lasted 18 years.

> Team went 9-5 and beat the Jets for the first
> time.

It was also the first time the two teams met for real. They'd only played each other in exhibition games before that.

[DoctorElefant]

That was misery. I had to go somewhere with the family that day and couldn't wait to get back to listen to the sold-out but blacked-out Rams-Giants game on my radio. They were already getting creamed when I tuned in. If they'd only won that earlier Monday Night Football game against the last place Eagles, they'd have already clinched a playoff spot. That was the one loss in their 9 of 10 win streak. It was also the same MNF game that Howard Cosell broadcasted while drunk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC8p6n-w10w

[Lubow]

"DoctorElefant" <Doctor...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:53f089e7-ca4a-47a4...@googlegroups.com...

>> Team went 9-5 and beat the Jets for the first
>> time.
>
> It was also the first time the two teams met for real. They'd only played
> each other in exhibition games before that.

The exhibitions were real enough. Real enough to get Sherman fired.

[DoctorElefant]

Professor, I know Allie got fired after the very first Giants-Jets preseason game. But those Jets were the Super Bowl champs. Shouldn't they have cut him some slack?

[Lubow]

"DoctorElefant" <Doctor...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:cbbdfb00-5a9b-4245...@googlegroups.com...

> On Monday, December 8, 2014 3:41:33 PM UTC-6, Lubow wrote:
>> "DoctorElefant" <Doctor...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:53f089e7-ca4a-47a4...@googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> Team went 9-5 and beat the Jets for the first
>> >> time.
>> >
>> > It was also the first time the two teams met for real. They'd only
>> > played
>> > each other in exhibition games before that.
>>
>> The exhibitions were real enough. Real enough to get Sherman fired.
>
> Professor, I know Allie got fired after the very first Giants-Jets
> preseason game. But those Jets were the Super Bowl champs. Shouldn't they
> have cut him some slack?

Given the quality of Wellington's draft picks, I would have given Allie a
pass for life. He got incredible traction out of players that should have
been retired along with Jim Lee Howell but managed to turn a third place
team into a three time conference champion. However, the one sided loss to
Sonny Werblin clearly showed how incompetent the Mara family was at running
a football team compared to upstart Werblin and how they took fan loyalty
and season seat sales for granted.

Remember Eleanor Kane, the distaff side of CBS' NFL Today opposite Jimmy the
Greek Snyder? I still remember her quote describing the New York Football
Giants in the Alex Webster era. "The Giants are a team with players that
don't play well; coaches that don't coach well and owners that don't own
well."