Coughlin, Gilbride and Fewell

[GaryFL]

Even after two Super Bowl wins I just can't seem to warm up to Tom
Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride to the degree a fan should after 2 Super
Bowl wins in 4 seasons.

Don't get me wrong they can coach the Giants for as long as they want
to now and you'll never again hear me say or speculate that the Giants
should make a coaching change. If Eli says they're the reason he's
been so successful then they're the reason he's been so successful.

I know this is typical Giant fan craziness but a part of me feels like
the Giants won the Super Bowl despite Coughlin, Gilbride and Fewell.

As usual the Giants had no offensive game plan for the Super Bowl.
They just did the same things they do every week against every
opponent. The lack of clock management/strategy in the last two
minutes was brutal. But they won the Super Bowl anyway.

On the game winning drive Eli pretty much changed every play at the
line and once again we saw why Eli is so great in the 2 minutes drill.
He's calling the plays at the line which is his greatest strength. But
Coughlin and Gilbride are smart enough to understand what they have at
QB and they let him do his thing which some coaches might not have the
guts or smarts to do.

On defense that assinine zone blitz that Coughlin insists every one of
his DC's run almost cost the Giants the Super Bowl. But because Brady
choked in the 4th qtr (Chase INT, Welker pass, Branch pass were
TERRIBLE throws from a supposedly all time great QB with the Super
Bowl on the line) they won the Super Bowl anyway. I was listening to
Phil Simms on Sirius radio the day after the game talking about how he
was screaming at the TV that a dumb "blitz zone" just cost the Giants
the Super Bowl (he was talking about the Woodhead play on 3rd down
from inside the Pats 10 yard line after the Giants had blasted Brady
on 1st and 2nd down and had him rattled and said I guess I shouldn't
have said that). I wish i could post an mp3 of that interview here.
God I hate that assinine Zone Blitz.

So I guess there are two morals to this story.

The first is that I'm a clueless fan who will never appreciate Tom
Coughlin who has won 2 Super Bowls in 4 years and gives too much
credit to Eli even though I know that's not fair to the coaches.

And the 2nd and most important is that Eli Manning is an elite
franchise QB who carried his team, his coaching staff, his front
office and the Giants fan base to a 2nd Super Bowl victory in 4 years
and if he gets another one before he retires he'll be one of the best
QB's in NFL history.

[Lubow]

"GaryFL" <xx...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9o38k7hp7pqqvp3qa...@4ax.com...

> Even after two Super Bowl wins I just can't seem to warm up to Tom
> Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride to the degree a fan should after 2 Super
> Bowl wins in 4 seasons.

Get with it, man. You are so 1970s-ish. This is the 21st Century. This
isn't your father's 12 team NFL. Lombardi has been dead for decades. This
is as Hats calls it, the "Rope-a-dope" league.

Just look at the math... More teams, more games more injuries fewer college
jocks wanting to get involved with football compared to lesser contact
sports while an increasing number of colleges are dropping their football
programs.

The Giants aren't perfect but they won because the Giants' coaches
configured their squad better than the Pats' coaches configured their
equally imperfect squad.

[GaryFL]

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:21:35 -0500, "Lubow" <dynami...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

No. The Giants won because Eli Manning is money in the 4th quarter and
Tom Brady choked on the pressure of the Giants defense and the moment.

[hatsnbats]

Eli Manning absolutely out played Tom Brady again. Pretty impressive
considering that Brady, at one point in the 3rd quarter, had a 132 QB
rating.

In a QB driven league, Eli Manning is a great asset to have. Who says
"eacantdraft"....

Hats N Bats

--

[DoctorElefant]

On Feb 21, 7:14 pm, Hats N Bats wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:28:36 -0500, GaryFL <xx...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:21:35 -0500, "Lubow" <dynamitem...@hotmail.com>

Most QBs would kill to be able to get to the Super Bowl and have a
game like Brady had. I guess that speaks volumes about Manning, but to
be fair, Brady's key receivers could have come up a little bigger in
crunch time. Parcells said the important thing was making the playoffs
and then you need a couple of breaks to go all the way. I think that's
exactly what we just witnessed.

--------------------------------------------------
DocE


"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
--------------------------------------------------

[hatsnbats]

Agreed, Branch and Hernandez had drops and then there was the Welker
play and I totally agree about the breaks. In fact starting with Myles
Autin in Dallas, there may have been more than a couple of them :)

Hats N Bats

--

[GaryFL]

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:18:48 -0800 (PST), DoctorElefant
<Doctor...@aol.com> wrote:

The Giants got more then a few breaks. They got a ton of breaks. Romo
over throwning Austin in Dallas. Rodgers over throwing Jennings in GB,
Williams leting the ball hit his knee in SF and Brady turning into
Mark Sanchez in the 4th qtr of the Super Bowl are just some of them.

Of course they get tremendous credit (and big fat shinny rings)
because they finished off everyone of those breaks and that's why
they're two time champs in four years.

But Brady is getting a free pass. If Eli had thrown that pick to Gronk
and missed Welker and Branch he would be getting killed for it.

[Brian K. O'Neill]

GaryFL wrote:

> Even after two Super Bowl wins I just can't seem to warm up to Tom
> Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride to the degree a fan should after 2 Super
> Bowl wins in 4 seasons.
>
> Don't get me wrong they can coach the Giants for as long as they want
> to now and you'll never again hear me say or speculate that the Giants
> should make a coaching change. If Eli says they're the reason he's
> been so successful then they're the reason he's been so successful.
>
> I know this is typical Giant fan craziness but a part of me feels like
> the Giants won the Super Bowl despite Coughlin, Gilbride and Fewell.

I don't think so. I think once might be a fluke but twice?

There are cocahes who lucked into a Super Bowl. I cannot think of anyt who
did it twice.

> As usual the Giants had no offensive game plan for the Super Bowl.
> They just did the same things they do every week against every
> opponent. The lack of clock management/strategy in the last two
> minutes was brutal. But they won the Super Bowl anyway.

I disagree about the game plan. The Patriots defense was designed to:

a) Make Victor Cruz a non-factor
b) Take away the big plays

So the Giants took what they could get.

Gilbride ran the ball enough times and he and Eli took the underneath stuff
all game.

Given what the Pats were willing to give up, we took everything we could, I
think.

> On defense that assinine zone blitz that Coughlin insists every one of
> his DC's run almost cost the Giants the Super Bowl. But because Brady
> choked in the 4th qtr (Chase INT, Welker pass, Branch pass were
> TERRIBLE throws from a supposedly all time great QB with the Super
> Bowl on the line) they won the Super Bowl anyway. I was listening to
> Phil Simms on Sirius radio the day after the game talking about how he
> was screaming at the TV that a dumb "blitz zone" just cost the Giants
> the Super Bowl (he was talking about the Woodhead play on 3rd down
> from inside the Pats 10 yard line after the Giants had blasted Brady
> on 1st and 2nd down and had him rattled and said I guess I shouldn't
> have said that). I wish i could post an mp3 of that interview here.
> God I hate that assinine Zone Blitz.

Every defense in the NFL runs a variation of a zone blitz. All it means is
that the defense sends in a non-lineman to rush the quarterback while a
lineman drops into zone coverage. If an NFL defense always rushed every
lineman and sometimes sent extra guys on blitzes, that defense would be very
predictable.

A traditional blitz means you have to have man coverage and you have less
defenders in the secondary. A zone blitz allows you to have as many players
in the secondary but also adds the confusion of a different player rushing
than the offense expects.

Now, I wouldn't have called it on third down but we can quibble about a lot
of individual plays in any game as close as the Super Bowl was.

[Brian K. O'Neill]

I have to agree with this in another context:

Every team's fans complain about their coordinators or head coaches.

I am not sure who I would trade Coughlin, Gilbride or Fewell for, but
whomever you would pick, the fans of their current teams would be happy to
see them go.

[Brian K. O'Neill]

GaryFL wrote:

> But Brady is getting a free pass. If Eli had thrown that pick to Gronk
> and missed Welker and Branch he would be getting killed for it.

I agree Eli would get more scrutiny and it's bullshit.

I still hear a lot more about the throw that went over Asante Samuel's head
than I do some of the crucial plays that Eli orchestrated on that
game-winning drive - like Steve Smith's 3rd and 10 catch and get out of
bounds. And while we hear more about the Helmet Catch, it's all in the
context of how lucky he was.

I maintain that Asante Samuel would have had to have been a lot taller than
he is to make that pick. It was not a drop - he jumps as high as he can,
times his jump perfectly, and he still barely gets his finger tips on the
ball:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6BzVqSu8_g

I also think that Brady's pass to Welker, while not terrible, deserves far
more blame than it has been getting than Welker's role in things. Just
because he got two hands on it doesn't mean that it was an easy catch. It
would have been a superb twisting catch had he made it, and he was wide open
enough that Brady didn't have to make it that way:

http://youtu.be/ePUq47agUmg

By contrast, Eli had inches on either side as a margin of error on his
fateful pass to Manningham and he got it in there, somehow:

http://youtu.be/XP0Q5I0vgS4

I agree that the media gives Brady a pass and is harder on Eli because
that's the narrative. However, I also think that is beginning to change
now...

[GaryFL]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:21:34 -0500, "Brian K. O'Neill"
<ituv...@sneakemail.com> wrote:

>GaryFL wrote:
>
>> Even after two Super Bowl wins I just can't seem to warm up to Tom
>> Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride to the degree a fan should after 2 Super
>> Bowl wins in 4 seasons.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong they can coach the Giants for as long as they want
>> to now and you'll never again hear me say or speculate that the Giants
>> should make a coaching change. If Eli says they're the reason he's
>> been so successful then they're the reason he's been so successful.
>>
>> I know this is typical Giant fan craziness but a part of me feels like
>> the Giants won the Super Bowl despite Coughlin, Gilbride and Fewell.
>
>I don't think so. I think once might be a fluke but twice?
>
>There are cocahes who lucked into a Super Bowl. I cannot think of anyt who
>did it twice.

I agree after the 2nd Super Bow win it's no fluke.

>
>> As usual the Giants had no offensive game plan for the Super Bowl.
>> They just did the same things they do every week against every
>> opponent. The lack of clock management/strategy in the last two
>> minutes was brutal. But they won the Super Bowl anyway.
>
>I disagree about the game plan. The Patriots defense was designed to:
>
>a) Make Victor Cruz a non-factor
>b) Take away the big plays
>
>So the Giants took what they could get.
>
>Gilbride ran the ball enough times and he and Eli took the underneath stuff
>all game.
>
>Given what the Pats were willing to give up, we took everything we could, I
>think.

That's why Eli is a great QB. But the Giants had no plan to counter
the Pats doubling Cruz and Nicks. They just did what they did every
week in every game. But it was enough.

>
>> On defense that assinine zone blitz that Coughlin insists every one of
>> his DC's run almost cost the Giants the Super Bowl. But because Brady
>> choked in the 4th qtr (Chase INT, Welker pass, Branch pass were
>> TERRIBLE throws from a supposedly all time great QB with the Super
>> Bowl on the line) they won the Super Bowl anyway. I was listening to
>> Phil Simms on Sirius radio the day after the game talking about how he
>> was screaming at the TV that a dumb "blitz zone" just cost the Giants
>> the Super Bowl (he was talking about the Woodhead play on 3rd down
>> from inside the Pats 10 yard line after the Giants had blasted Brady
>> on 1st and 2nd down and had him rattled and said I guess I shouldn't
>> have said that). I wish i could post an mp3 of that interview here.
>> God I hate that assinine Zone Blitz.
>
>Every defense in the NFL runs a variation of a zone blitz. All it means is
>that the defense sends in a non-lineman to rush the quarterback while a
>lineman drops into zone coverage. If an NFL defense always rushed every
>lineman and sometimes sent extra guys on blitzes, that defense would be very
>predictable.
>
>A traditional blitz means you have to have man coverage and you have less
>defenders in the secondary. A zone blitz allows you to have as many players
>in the secondary but also adds the confusion of a different player rushing
>than the offense expects.
>
>Now, I wouldn't have called it on third down but we can quibble about a lot
>of individual plays in any game as close as the Super Bowl was.

Zone Blitzing out of a 3-4 makes sense. Zone Blitzing out of a 4-3 is
incredibly dumb. Against an experienced QB it is monumentally dumb in
my worthless opinion.

[GaryFL]

That's 100% true.

[GaryFL]

Yes it's changing for Eli for now. He's going to win another one and
then they'll all have to shut up for good.

[Bill_A]

Eli's the real deal. And many people are crying me a Rivers over it
too.