Seeking new image, Patriots' Weis nearly loses life
Paul B
July 24
New England Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis wanted to lose
weight, not his life. He wanted to project a different snapshot image for
NFL owners who prefer their head coaches to have the "right look." Dead in a
coffin wasn't what he had in mind.
"A couple of doctor friends of mine have told me that I'm lucky to be alive
after what I went through," said Weis.
Charlie Weis (shown here in a pre-surgery file photo) played a key role in
New England's Super Bowl success.
A gastric bypass procedure that Weis elected to have on June 15 resulted in
a near-death experience. He was administered last rites by a Catholic priest
two days after his surgery as he lay connected to a ventilator in the
intensive care unit at Massachusetts General Hospital.
Weis endured a blood transfusion of seven pints and spent two weeks in the
ICU, plus another two weeks at the Rhode Island Rehabilitation Center. He's
finally home, but he won't join the defending Super Bowl champions when they
open training camp Friday.
Weis can't walk on his own because he has nerve damage in both feet due to
the complications. His right foot is worse than the left, and he needs a
walker to move around. He endures physical therapy every morning, and while
doctors have told him the condition is temporary, he is not expected to walk
unrestricted for two or three months.
Weis may join the Patriots late next week, but will only attend meetings at
first. He will then do his coaching from a golf cart.
Until then, Patriots coach Bill Belichick will handle much of Weis' duties
as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. Unfortunately, it is ground
that has been covered by Belichick, who stepped in when quarterbacks coach
Dick Rehbein died of a heart attack late last summer.
Belichick and Weis already have scripted the first week of practice for the
offense. Weis will remain in the loop via a quality control coach who will
deliver tapes of early training camp practices to Weis. Weis will continue
scripting practice with input from Belichick, who has been very supportive.
"Bill's been good," said Weis. "He's worried about September 9th, not August
9th."
Weis has battled weight problems for many years, but his success as
offensive coordinator under Bill Parcells with the New York Jets and
Belichick with the Patriots has put him on the coaching map. After the
Patriots upset the St. Louis Rams in the Super Bowl, Weis emerged as a
candidate for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers job that went to Jon Gruden. He knows
that these opportunities come and go, and he knows that many owners are
looking not only for results but also for the right image.
Thus, he opted to have the gastric bypass, a procedure in which the stomach
is reduced to a smaller size. It's a "simple" deal. You eat less on a
smaller stomach. You lose weight. You look better.
"I'm not going to deny what my motive was, even though there are obvious
long-term health benefits," said Weis. "My thoughts were that if I wanted to
be a head coach, I had to lose weight. If that was the obstacle that was
going to keep me from being a head coach, then why not do something about
it?"
" I'm not going to deny what my motive was, even though there are obvious
long-term health benefits. My thoughts were that if I wanted to be a head
coach, I had to lose weight. "
- Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis
It is a stereotype that needs some discussion among owners. It's not just
Weis' imagination. Maryland coach Ralph Friedgen's weight was considered an
unspeakable negative as he coveted a head-coaching job at the NFL and
collegiate level. Despite his success as a coordinator at both levels, for
years he was never mentioned as a serious candidate for a job.
Then, ironically, Freidgen almost got two offers in one year -- the
Buccaneers courted him after one season as head coach at Maryland in which
was named the national coach of the year.
One GM explained the problem: "Bottom line, it shouldn't matter. But the
head coach is somebody who is always out front with the media in the NFL,
and with the alumni and the media in college. Image is part of it, but there
are some guys who believe it's a reflection of self discipline. How can you
demand self control from players when you don't have it yourself? It could
be symptomatic of some other issues."
Or it could be just a cosmetic myth.
Weis, 45, was supposed to be hospitalized for just one night after the June
15 surgery. He went home Saturday but was rushed back Sunday because of
internal bleeding.
"It was bad," said Weis. "Of course, I don't remember any of it. But the
good part is, I still have my mind. No [brain] damage. Walking is the most
frustrating part -- that, and getting the energy level I need. Once I get
that, I'll be fine. Then it will be no different than a coach with a broken
leg."
Mike & Susan Romano
recovery and gets back on the field soon. He deserves it after going
through what sounds like a nightmare.
MikeR
"Paul B" <pb...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:41F%8.630250$352.135234@sccrnsc02...
Peachhead
last resort. It's very major surgery and it's not done just because the
patient wants to look good. It's done when a patient is morbidly obese and
the patient's overall health and quality of life are being seriously
affected by the extra weight. Jeez, they make it sound like he's a fickle
health nut getting a liposuction in order to look good in his speedo.
OK, rant over. The complications were far worse than I realized. I don't
want to sound crass, but I think this is really going to affect the team
pretty seriously this year. We don't have a dedicated QB coach and now we
won't have a dedicated OC for several months (just BB doing 3 jobs). I hope
I'm wrong, but I doubt Charlie will be able to resume his normal work duties
for quite some time.
Charlie, first things first. Get well. The team ain't worth your life. I
wish you the best. Rehab from nerve damage is a bitch.
PS-I don't mean they lack a "dedicated" OC and QB coach in the sense that a
BB isn't dedicated. He's probably the hardest working guy in the league. I
mean "dedicated" coach in the sense of a guy concentrating on a specific job
and only that job.
"Paul B" <pb...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:41F%8.630250$352.135234@sccrnsc02...
dscotts
well, the story line begins .... camp hasn't started and this team is behind the
eight ball coaching wise ... hopefully we're not talking about how this was a
sign of the times for this year.... so much went so very right last year -
coaching, health, FA acquisitions, BB delegating ..etc.
If there ever was any doubt Weis has one foot out the door, a drastic measure
like gastric surgery to get a coaching job tells us just how quick he will jump
ship if the offer comes. With that in mind, its obvious BB knows his feelings
(they are pretty close friends), wouldn't it have even made even more sense to
have brought someone in this year as QB coach to get a feel of the offense for
consistencies sake at the very least if the team does acceptable this year and
your OC gets an offer he won't refuse?????
Have to have faith BB still knows what he is doing, or at least, playing a hunch
that again works out like last year .....
Peachhead
Well, come to think of it, I guess I'm not as surprised as I'd like to be.
If he just wanted to lose weight, the Dr ever hear of a diet? Or
liposuction? And same-day surgery for a gastric bypass?! That seems pretty
outrageous to me. It's basically amputating part of your body then sending
you home the same day.
"dscotts" <getlost...@megatrondata.com> wrote in message
news:3D3F91DB...@megatrondata.com...
Ben
"Peachhead" <Peac...@MUNGEsnet.net> wrote in message
news:7iU%8.1527$V%.552777750@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm surprise he could find a surgeon to do it, at least for those reasons.
> Well, come to think of it, I guess I'm not as surprised as I'd like to be.
> If he just wanted to lose weight, the Dr ever hear of a diet? Or
> liposuction? And same-day surgery for a gastric bypass?! That seems pretty
> outrageous to me. It's basically amputating part of your body then sending
> you home the same day.
>
>
couple family members that are. And both of them have dieted for years and
years with little to no success. There are people with body chemistries so
far out of whack that neither dieting nor reasonable amounts of exercise
will allow them to lose large amounts of weight. And people who are obese
and I mean that in the truest sense of the word) don't just need to lose 10
or 20 pounds, which is what dieting is good for. These people need to lose
50 to 100 pounds to be in a healthy state. And some people are just not
naturally able to pull that off. So, some surgical procedures have been
developed to make that possible. And despite the misconceptions,
liposuction is only good for small amounts of loss as well. As a matter of
fact, no doctor will remove more than 1 liter of fat in any liposuction
patient, which is nowhere near the amount of weight loss possible with
gastric bypass. I understand why Charlie did it, and I wish him the most
complete recovery, and I hope that his health problem will finally begin to
come under control. However, when people say shit like, "Ever hear of a
diet?" That really (please excuse the profanity) fucking pisses me off.
--
"He wasn't coaching. If he had any [bleep], he'd have coached Vancouver or
somebody else, then see if he thinks it's not an accomplishment."
- Larry Brown in reference to Phil Jackson
PhilW1776
>OK, look. This bugs me. I am not an obese person at all, but I have a
>couple family members that are. And both of them have dieted for years and
>years with little to no success. There are people with body chemistries so
>far out of whack that neither dieting nor reasonable amounts of exercise
>will allow them to lose large amounts of weight. And people who are obese
> and I mean that in the truest sense of the word) don't just need to lose 10
>or 20 pounds, which is what dieting is good for. These people need to lose
>50 to 100 pounds to be in a healthy state. And some people are just not
>naturally able to pull that off. So, some surgical procedures have been
>developed to make that possible. And despite the misconceptions,
>liposuction is only good for small amounts of loss as well. As a matter of
>fact, no doctor will remove more than 1 liter of fat in any liposuction
>patient, which is nowhere near the amount of weight loss possible with
>gastric bypass. I understand why Charlie did it, and I wish him the most
>complete recovery, and I hope that his health problem will finally begin to
>come under control.
I'm confused here. Basic physics can't be violated regardless of one's "body
chemistry" BS. Yes, we all metabolize fat and carbs at different rates and to
different end degrees, so being slim is easier for some. In general it's
easier to get heavier as you get older, partly because of slower metabolism and
partly because folks in their 40s and beyond are typically less active. Not
many older folks playing touch football, hoops, etc. But the bottom line is,
if you do not put the fat content IN, it can't magically get there and it can't
magically stay there. Eating less calorie content every day will make the very
heavy less heavy. For inexplicable human reasons, many can't and won't eat
right. Just like smokers, etc.
-philw (also loves to eat stuff he shouldn't)
SuperPatsFan
"Ben" <Ben...@nospamcrd.com> wrote in message
news:uk07ads...@corp.supernews.com...
I agree, but what is disturbing is that Weis did all of this for a freaking
JOB!
His health wasn't his concern, his appearance was.
Quote:
"I'm not going to deny what my motive was, even though there are obvious
long-term health benefits," said Weis. "My thoughts were that if I wanted to
be a head coach, I had to lose weight. If that was the obstacle that was
going to keep me from being a head coach, then why not do something about
it?"
End Quote:
The above quote is disturbing and quite frankly makes this procedure look
like a cheesy cosmetic procedure (read: quick fix) instead of the last
resort/potential life saving procedure that it is. It's this attitude that
leads to the things that people say that have bothered you. Weis has opened
that door because there is no indication Weis has tried to take on any kind
of intense diet regime, something like what Duke University offers, but
rather has gone straight to a quick fix, which is why I can see some
thinking that he has no discipline and basically asking if he has heard of a
diet.
Peachhead
Sorry. Didn't mean to offend anybody. I should have expressed myself a bit
clearer. I can understand Charlie wanting to go for a quick fix. It's only
human nature. But a doctor is supposed to treat the problem in the least
invasive way practical. You know "First, do no harm".
The problem wasn't congestive heart problems, weight related diabetes, joint
problems or any number of weight related health issues. Though I imagine he
was at risk for those things. As SuperPatFan says elsewhere in this thread
"It was to get a freakin' job". To me that's not a legitimate reason to
perform major surgery on someone.
To clarify. I don't blame Charlie in any of this. I blame the doctor.
jes...@hexdump.org
: years with little to no success. There are people with body chemistries so
: far out of whack that neither dieting nor reasonable amounts of exercise
: will allow them to lose large amounts of weight. And people who are obese
Those people are *far far far* more rare than the number of people who
claim to be in this state.
: and I mean that in the truest sense of the word) don't just need to lose 10
: or 20 pounds, which is what dieting is good for. These people need to lose
Uhhh yeah. Way to pull numbers out of your ass there, sparky.
It is *quite* possible to lose that 50-100 pounds, it just has to be
done very slowly (figure a pound a week so it could be a multi-year process).
--
Jeff Gentry jes...@hexdump.org gen...@hexdump.org
SEX DRUGS UNIX
PhilW1776
>"Ben" <Ben...@nospamcrd.com> wrote
>> "Peachhead" <Peac...@MUNGEsnet.net> wrote
In effect, you're saying you're against cosmetic surgery...breast implants,
liposuction, Botox injections...
Along this thread, ANY surgery, ANY puts your health and life at risk.
-philw (prefers natural tits)
Peachhead
"PhilW1776" <phil...@aol.comdelete> wrote in message
news:20020725151307...@mb-mq.aol.com...
> In effect, you're saying you're against cosmetic surgery...breast
implants,
> liposuction, Botox injections...
Yep. Not worth the risk, even a tiny risk.
>
> Along this thread, ANY surgery, ANY puts your health and life at risk.
Yes, any surgery (or for that matter any medication) is potentially life
threatening. But some are more so than others. IMO stapling someone's
stomach so they can score a job promotion, is like a patient complaining
about how their feet look and the surgeon recommending amputation.
>
> -philw (prefers natural tits)
-Peachhead (me too)
Mike & Susan Romano
"PhilW1776" <phil...@aol.comdelete> wrote in message
factors that make things more complicated. On average if you taken in 3500
calories less than what you need for maintenance, say over a week, you lose
a pound. But there is the rub - "on average". People who are really obese
are not average and have several things going against them. One is their
maintenance levels are low usually due to a much slower metabolism. Then
they have the ability to more efficiently process carbohydrates and convert
them to fat - this is the genetic component we are just beginning to
understand. On top of all that, their brains are wired to feed what their
genes are telling them they need to do to stockpile storage fat. That is an
awful lot to fight. They are really genetically different and it is hard to
fight genetics. I suppose you could lock them in a dungeon and prevent them
from taking in the calories, but they would only eat like crazy when they
get out. What Weis did was the surgical version of this - prevent his
stomach from holding enough food to make him fat. Unfortunately something
went wrong to produce the internal bleeding and subsequent damage. It is a
shame.
MikeR
Mike & Susan Romano
"SuperPatsFan" <superp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ahpc5h$s5jf2$1...@ID-142430.news.dfncis.de...
he wants to advance in that industry he has to lose weight. Look at what
all the extremely attractive actors and actresses do to maintain their
appearance to succeed in their part of the entertainment industry. The
disturbing thing is not Weis' attitude, but the attitude of the owners, GM's
and, ultimately, the fans who would never give a guy of Weis' talent the
chance to be a head coach because of his appearance. Unfortunately the head
coach's job requires a public appearance/relations component. One of
Belichick's failings at Cleveland was his dealling with the press and an
apparent disregard for the feelings of the fans. He learned from this and
hired a pr coach to help him deal with this so he could succeed next time.
Weis is just doing what he has to do advance his career in the NFL
entertainment business.
MikeR
PhilW1776
>"PhilW1776" <phil...@aol.comdelete> wrote
Did I not explicitly state "we all metabolize fat and carbs at different rates
and to different end degrees" meaning that some of us even extract more out of
a food than others??? My point is that energy in is required to power any
biological being. If you do not input the food energy, you must lose weight.
Excersize makes you require even more input fuel. In the end its always
physics, with SOME fat folk being more "efficient" at extracting & holding
stuff from food than the average. And in the end its always because they
really eat too much and maybe eat the wrong stuff.
-philw (likes physics 'cause it's not PC)
SuperPatsFan
"Mike & Susan Romano" <wild...@winco.net> wrote in message
news:ahpt9e$6ogd$1...@news3.infoave.net...
> > I agree, but what is disturbing is that Weis did all of this for a
It's not like Weis suddenly was thrust into this "entertainment business."
He obviously has had aspirations of being a head coach, and like it or not,
wrong or right, most know that a 350# guy with his gut hanging way over his
waist is not gonna get a job over a slimmer version.
Head coaching is a very stressful job, and I'm not sure I would want to hire
someone so grossly out of shape to take on such a stressful job, and that
may be the real attitude of the GM's and Owners. I wonder if Weis has
thought about that?
Has Weis tried EVERYTHING possible (read no surgery) after last years
rejections?
He decided to take the "easy" way out, he showed no discipline in a sport in
which discipline is GOD.
To me Weis has set back obese peoples standing in society (it's pretty low
as it is now) that much more.
He had time, he had aspirations, but he had no discipline or desire to put
in some hard work to get his ultimate goal. He took the quickest and easiest
way possible, and for that he paid the price that sometimes comes when one
takes shortcuts.
He'll probably face more problems as a head coach, when he tries to teach
discipline when he eschewed it himself.
Mike & Susan Romano
problem until he got passed over this past winter. One can only speculate.
> Head coaching is a very stressful job, and I'm not sure I would want to
hire
> someone so grossly out of shape to take on such a stressful job, and that
> may be the real attitude of the GM's and Owners. I wonder if Weis has
> thought about that?
>
That is also true. And maybe he did think about it which is what prompted
him to do something so radical as to pursue surgery. I don't disagree with
your assertion at all. I certainly think any GM would think twice about
hiring a head coach who is a heart attack waiting to happen.
> Has Weis tried EVERYTHING possible (read no surgery) after last years
> rejections?
>
We can only assume he has. Doctors don't perform this kind of procedure
lightly. My Dad is a physician and I know he feels this is the kind of
thing doctors do only when "EVERYTHING" else has failed.
> He decided to take the "easy" way out, he showed no discipline in a sport
in
> which discipline is GOD.
>
I don't consider this the easy way out and I doubt the Doctors allowed Weis
to feel that way.
> To me Weis has set back obese peoples standing in society (it's pretty low
> as it is now) that much more.
>
Why? I fail to understand this statement. I believe he is only guilty of
trying to better himself. Frankly I applaud the effort because if it had
worked we might have gotten an even better performance from him as offensive
coordinator this year. With any surgical procedure, even the simplest ones,
there is risk that serious things can go wrong and Weis was just one of the
unlucky ones.
> He had time, he had aspirations, but he had no discipline or desire to put
> in some hard work to get his ultimate goal. He took the quickest and
easiest
> way possible, and for that he paid the price that sometimes comes when one
> takes shortcuts.
>
You don't know that. Seriously obese people are always accused of being
undisciplined and sometimes they show extraordinary amounts of discipline
and still fail. I don't have any idea how old you are, but it does get much
much more difficult to lose weight when you hit 35 or 40. I know. When I
was in my twenties and running road races, I could lose 10 pounds at will.
I could lose 5 to 10 pounds just with a slight restriction in diet in about
3 to 5 weeks and I didn't suffer. I am 48 and run 15 miles a week, lift
weights with my son 2-3 times a week and practically starve myself and can
barely remain at 148 pounds at 5' 6". That is a full 25 lbs above my racing
weight in my twenties. I believe Weis is about my age so I suspect he has
more trouble keeping his weight down as I do.
> He'll probably face more problems as a head coach, when he tries to teach
> discipline when he eschewed it himself.
>
>
I prefer not to speculate on this. It may be as you say I don't know. But
I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since I think he has a
serious problem that required a more radical solution. And I give him
credit for trying to solve his problem even if it did not turn out well.
MikeR
Mike & Susan Romano
"PhilW1776" <phil...@aol.comdelete> wrote in message
metabolism is really slow. I don't know, you may be right. I still suspect
Weis has tried all the other stuff and still cannot get down there. I
really think we ought to give the guy a break, he almost died for crying out
loud. And he was trying to improve his life, it just did not work out the
way he planned. The guy is a great offensive coordinator and I, for one,
hope he recovers and gets the Pats offense to improve. Why are we taking
pot shots at our guy anyway?
MikeR
Greg Zook
Shortcuts are "god," too. I can't see how this is a valid argument. It's
true (perhaps) but how does it really matter? It's his body. Some player,
years from now isn't going to look at Weis and think, "I refuse to do my job
effectively because he had trouble with an eating addiction."
Norv Turner is an alcoholic. Perhaps that's why he isn't that great of a
coach. The players see the red blurry eyes and smell the slightly boozy
breath. And then decide to tank because he isn't disciplined. I really
doubt it. I think he is a pretty good coach all things considered.
Joe Strazzere
> The above quote is disturbing and quite frankly makes this procedure look
> like a cheesy cosmetic procedure (read: quick fix) instead of the last
> resort/potential life saving procedure that it is. It's this attitude that
> leads to the things that people say that have bothered you. Weis has opened
> that door because there is no indication Weis has tried to take on any kind
> of intense diet regime, something like what Duke University offers, but
> rather has gone straight to a quick fix, which is why I can see some
> thinking that he has no discipline and basically asking if he has heard of a
> diet.
You don't have any idea what Weis did or didn't do as far as dieting.
All of what you say is nothing more than pure speculation.
Let's hope he recovers completely and quickly.
Sean
news:ahpt9e$6ogd$1...@news3.infoave.net...
> he wants to advance in that industry he has to lose weight. Look at what
> all the extremely attractive actors and actresses do to maintain their
> appearance to succeed in their part of the entertainment industry. The
> disturbing thing is not Weis' attitude, but the attitude of the owners,
GM's
> and, ultimately, the fans who would never give a guy of Weis' talent the
> chance to be a head coach because of his appearance.
But I think that is changing. Look at Friedgen in Maryland. Given a chance
by Debbie Yow, he walked in there and turned that program around in less
than a year. He did it when no one else, including the former Holy Cross
coach (Duffner?), could do it. Fridge proved that a 'fat' coach can be
successful.
Football coaches have never been skinny per se (one only needs to look at
the Bill Parcells' of the world, although Tuna looked svelte in his early
days with the Giants). Hopefully the fat coach foolishness flies out the
window.
> Unfortunately the head
> coach's job requires a public appearance/relations component. One of
> Belichick's failings at Cleveland was his dealling with the press and an
> apparent disregard for the feelings of the fans. He learned from this and
> hired a pr coach to help him deal with this so he could succeed next time.
> Weis is just doing what he has to do advance his career in the NFL
> entertainment business.
Our society is prejudiced against anyone who does not fit the ideal image:
caucasian, normal-colored hair, normal-colored eyes, clear skin, svelte
look, height between 5-foot-4 and 6-foot.
Sean
> You don't know that. Seriously obese people are always accused of being
> undisciplined and sometimes they show extraordinary amounts of discipline
> and still fail. I don't have any idea how old you are, but it does get
much
> much more difficult to lose weight when you hit 35 or 40. I know. When I
> was in my twenties and running road races, I could lose 10 pounds at will.
> I could lose 5 to 10 pounds just with a slight restriction in diet in
about
> 3 to 5 weeks and I didn't suffer. I am 48 and run 15 miles a week, lift
> weights with my son 2-3 times a week and practically starve myself and can
> barely remain at 148 pounds at 5' 6". That is a full 25 lbs above my
racing
> weight in my twenties. I believe Weis is about my age so I suspect he has
> more trouble keeping his weight down as I do.
One of my best friends is young and obese and has struggled with it for a
good chunk of her life, from what I understand.
In my opinion, obesity often comes because someone is lacking something
emotionally -- and usually, that something was missing from their childhood.
No, I am not giving the obese a free pass, but I truly believe that those
who eat themselves away are also trying to make up for something somewhere
else. Unfortunately, they need to turn away from food and turn toward some
counseling to deal with those issues before they'll change their attitudes
toward food.
People battling weight problems also have a habit of trying not to eat
enough when they are losing weight. About two years ago, I checked in at
5-foot-8, 230. I was only 21 and I had let myself go over the previous two
or three years. Often I'd eat little all day, and the little I'd eat was all
carbs. Then at 3 a.m. I'd make a Wendy's or Dunkin Donuts run to try to
satisfy my appetite. The result was me packing on the pounds despite
probably taking in only about 2200-2300 calories a day.
I changed the way I ate and ate more protein, I ate more consistently and
regularly and I started jogging about 2 miles at least five days a week and
I dropped more than 50 pounds in three-plus months. I've been a more
responsible eater since and I've kept off most of the weight (though I
regularly fluctuate 5 pounds either way) even though I don't get anywhere
near the exercise I used to.
SuperPatsFan
"Joe Strazzere" <stra...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:127eac1e.02072...@posting.google.com...
We can make a very good educated guess based solely on the time frame at
hand.
Weis finally gets some sniffs at a head coaching job this past winter, he
feels that his weight is stopping him from getting any of these job, and he
gets this surgery in June. Now are we to believe that Weis tried everything
possible with regard to dieting in those 5 months?
More to the point as well, why no mention of any diet in the article?
Common sense dictates there would be some mention of Weis trying to diet,
but was unsuccessful and did the surgery as a last resort, which is the
intention of that surgery. Don't you think Weis would have said something
like "Mort, I've tried everything to lose weight, but I just couldn't shed
the weight." This omission seems glaring, and readily makes one turn to the
thought that he didn't try anything significant with his diet.
More proof of him not trying, there has been NOT an iota of weight reduction
in him over the past years.
> Let's hope he recovers completely and quickly.
Let's hope.
dscotts
> I don't have any idea how old you are, but it does get much
> much more difficult to lose weight when you hit 35 or 40. I know. When I
> was in my twenties and running road races, I could lose 10 pounds at will.
> I could lose 5 to 10 pounds just with a slight restriction in diet in about
> 3 to 5 weeks and I didn't suffer. I am 48 and run 15 miles a week, lift
> weights with my son 2-3 times a week and practically starve myself and can
> barely remain at 148 pounds at 5' 6".
I hear you old man (same age) ........ hell, these days I watch other people eat
and I gain weight. Its a constant battle of internal wills - desire,
discipline, satiation, self-image .. etc. Drive you nuts if you take it too far
and don't live a little and accept a bit of the inevitable effects of gravity on
an aging body! That said, I'm doing pretty good over the last couple of years,
trying to give it one last earnest shot, gotten rid of and kept off 35 pounds
.... and slowly counting. Its hard work and I'm basically in a state of wanton
with occasional short falls from the wagon.
Mike & Susan Romano
run 3-4 miles without trouble, even with a slightly arthritic knee (skiing
and soccer did it) but it takes me longer. It's just that I can't get much
below 145 no matter what I do. Then I go back home in early June to visit
family and attend my class reunion and balloon to 155 in a week! I'm back
to 148, but that is exercising almost every single day and restricting my
diet considerably. I still can't believe a weeks worth of cannoli's,
lobster and alcohol (at least at the reunion) could force me into expending
6 solid weeks to get it back off. When I was 30 I could drop 5 pounds in a
week if I wanted to. Oh well, that's life.
MikeR
PhilW1776
>Point taken, but it is amazing how little you need to maintain if your
>metabolism is really slow. I don't know, you may be right. I still suspect
>Weis has tried all the other stuff and still cannot get down there. I
>really think we ought to give the guy a break, he almost died for crying out
>loud. And he was trying to improve his life, it just did not work out the
>way he planned. The guy is a great offensive coordinator and I, for one,
>hope he recovers and gets the Pats offense to improve. Why are we taking
>pot shots at our guy anyway?
>MikeR
Pot shots? Is that some kinda slam at over 40 men?
I for one have no problem with Weis' decision for surgery. I would question
the timing. He shoulda had it done well before camp. Doctors always tell you
that there can be complications. He put his current employer in a bad position
which he could have avoided or mitigated. I love the guy as a coach and will
miss hearing his funny and ascerbic comments to the players at Smithfield.
-philw
PhilW1776
>Date: 7/25/2002 9:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <ahq7p3$vdh08$1...@ID-137731.news.dfncis.de>
Good news Sean me boy. I've found that many males are in their worst shape in
their 20s. They'd had little prior need to take care of themselves. I never
worked out in my 20s. Got love handles & a stomach tumor. Started at 30 which
made a change in my life which was worth it. In the years since, it's helped
me to get jobs where I look younger and fit and to retain jobs because I can
better cope with the extra effort and stress.
-philw (not in the entertainment industry)
Mike & Susan Romano
"PhilW1776" <phil...@aol.comdelete> wrote in message
> >"Mike & Susan Romano" wild...@winco.net
>
> >Point taken, but it is amazing how little you need to maintain if your
> >metabolism is really slow. I don't know, you may be right. I still
suspect
> >Weis has tried all the other stuff and still cannot get down there. I
> >really think we ought to give the guy a break, he almost died for crying
out
> >loud. And he was trying to improve his life, it just did not work out
the
> >way he planned. The guy is a great offensive coordinator and I, for one,
> >hope he recovers and gets the Pats offense to improve. Why are we taking
> >pot shots at our guy anyway?
> >MikeR
>
>
> Pot shots? Is that some kinda slam at over 40 men?
Not unless I'm taking them at myself.
> I for one have no problem with Weis' decision for surgery. I would
question
> the timing. He shoulda had it done well before camp. Doctors always tell
you
> that there can be complications. He put his current employer in a bad
position
> which he could have avoided or mitigated. I love the guy as a coach and
will
> miss hearing his funny and ascerbic comments to the players at Smithfield.
>
> -philw
I think you are right. I don't imagine he thought he would have problems so
severe. An article in the globe suggests he had been battling his weight
for years. So I guess he got desparate. He did indeed put his employer in
a bad position, but that clearly was not his intent. I think he'll be back
maybe a little better than he was before in the long run.
MikeR
SuperPatsFan
"PhilW1776" <phil...@aol.comdelete> wrote in message
> >"Mike & Susan Romano" wild...@winco.net
>
> >Point taken, but it is amazing how little you need to maintain if your
> >metabolism is really slow. I don't know, you may be right. I still
suspect
> >Weis has tried all the other stuff and still cannot get down there. I
> >really think we ought to give the guy a break, he almost died for crying
out
> >loud. And he was trying to improve his life, it just did not work out
the
> >way he planned. The guy is a great offensive coordinator and I, for one,
> >hope he recovers and gets the Pats offense to improve. Why are we taking
> >pot shots at our guy anyway?
> >MikeR
>
>
> Pot shots? Is that some kinda slam at over 40 men?
> I for one have no problem with Weis' decision for surgery. I would
question
> the timing. He shoulda had it done well before camp. Doctors always tell
you
> that there can be complications. He put his current employer in a bad
position
> which he could have avoided or mitigated.
Actually I think he did it at the best time of year. Weis waited until he
had installed the new offense and worked on Brady on the things that he
wanted him to improve on, along with going over the new playbook, this all
took place during much of the Spring.
I think the Pats might have been in worse shape had Weis done this in the
Spring time and miss a lot of time (6 weeks +) during a crucial learning
period for Tom Brady. As it is, Weis gave himself a 6 week window (June 15th
through July 26th) when there is not much do to for an OC. Little did he
know that 6 weeks wouldn't be enough.
PhilW1776
>Actually I think he did it at the best time of year. Weis waited until he
>had installed the new offense and worked on Brady on the things that he
>wanted him to improve on, along with going over the new playbook, this all
>took place during much of the Spring.
>
>I think the Pats might have been in worse shape had Weis done this in the
>Spring time and miss a lot of time (6 weeks +) during a crucial learning
>period for Tom Brady. As it is, Weis gave himself a 6 week window (June 15th
>through July 26th) when there is not much do to for an OC. Little did he
>know that 6 weeks wouldn't be enough.
>
Interesting perspective. You may be right since that is the time that even BB
takes time off and goes to Nantuckett.
-philw
jes...@hexdump.org
: factors that make things more complicated. On average if you taken in 3500
: calories less than what you need for maintenance, say over a week, you lose
: a pound. But there is the rub - "on average". People who are really obese
No, not "on average", always. It is a matter of calories in vs. calories
out. Some people may have lower calories out, but if (calories out -
calories in) >= 3500 you've lost at least a pound.
: are not average and have several things going against them. One is their
: maintenance levels are low usually due to a much slower metabolism. Then
Most people who have a "much slower metabolism" usually have several
lifestyle choices going on which has led them to that state. Few people
have a naturally low and un-fixable "low metabolism" to the extent that
they'd wind up obese.
: they have the ability to more efficiently process carbohydrates and convert
Again, this is true, but the number of people this is true for is greatly
exceeded by the number of people who'll claim this is their problem.
: understand. On top of all that, their brains are wired to feed what their
: genes are telling them they need to do to stockpile storage fat. That is an
See last comment.
: get out. What Weis did was the surgical version of this - prevent his
: stomach from holding enough food to make him fat. Unfortunately something
What Weis did was take the easy way out.
jes...@hexdump.org
: No, I am not giving the obese a free pass, but I truly believe that those
: who eat themselves away are also trying to make up for something somewhere
: else. Unfortunately, they need to turn away from food and turn toward some
Personally, I'm far from obese but also far from the model of Adonnis.
I know what I need to do to fix the latter statement, but my problem is
that I get addicted to food, as odd as it sounds. I've an addictive
personality, very much so. As an example, there's a food court near where
I work that has this *huuuuuge* combo meals. Well, I ate there for 2 weeks,
always getting the same thing, and put on a couple pounds. You'd think
this would teach me to stop doing that ... in fact I wanted to. Yet every
day at crunch time, I'd instantly change my mind and go there.
I'm mentally weak. It's my problem that needs to be dealt with. I'm
willing to bet that 99% of the ppl that want to lose weight also have
some mental weakness. Crying about it and pointing to genetics only makes
it worse.
: People battling weight problems also have a habit of trying not to eat
: enough when they are losing weight. About two years ago, I checked in at
And not often enough, and extremely crappy "diet foods" (like that 'no
fat' trend 10ish years ago that ended up having ppl snack on extremely
high GI carbs ... snackwell cookies anyone?).
People also almost always underreport the amount of calories consumed and
underreport exercise, even in their own brain.
: satisfy my appetite. The result was me packing on the pounds despite
: probably taking in only about 2200-2300 calories a day.
Exactly. Big diff between eating 2 times a day and 6 times a day.
: responsible eater since and I've kept off most of the weight (though I
: regularly fluctuate 5 pounds either way) even though I don't get anywhere
: near the exercise I used to.
Yes, it is a lifelong change. Another problem is many people go on a
diet looking for a "quick fix", lose 10 pounds in a couple weeks (mostly
water weight), and then it stops working as much (as actual fat loss
is much slower) and get disheartened.
Greg Zook
"PhilW1776" <phil...@aol.comdelete> wrote in message
Prospective employer: "Let's hire that one guy you interviewed...the fit
one who looks young."
Assistant to the Prospective employer: "You must mean Phil. The one with
parenthesis after his name."
Prospective employer: "Yes. He looks very young and fit. Much more
capable of handling stress than that Charlie Weis who keeps coming around."
Sorry philw, couldn't resist
Greg (in the entertainment industry)
PhilW1776
>Prospective employer: "Let's hire that one guy you interviewed...the fit
>one who looks young."
>Assistant to the Prospective employer: "You must mean Phil. The one with
>parenthesis after his name."
>Prospective employer: "Yes. He looks very young and fit. Much more
>capable of handling stress than that Charlie Weis who keeps coming around."
>
>Sorry philw, couldn't resist
>Greg (in the entertainment industry)
Y'mean like I don't know jack 'bout bein an offensive coordinator? Aw shucks.
-philw (gotta love the parens)
Mike & Susan Romano
<jes...@hexdump.org> wrote in message
news:Ked09.139409$Wt3.105066@rwcrnsc53...
> Mike & Susan Romano <wild...@winco.net> wrote:
> : factors that make things more complicated. On average if you taken in
3500
> : calories less than what you need for maintenance, say over a week, you
lose
> : a pound. But there is the rub - "on average". People who are really
obese
>
> No, not "on average", always. It is a matter of calories in vs. calories
> out. Some people may have lower calories out, but if (calories out -
> calories in) >= 3500 you've lost at least a pound.
>
is pegged to metabolic rate so you are right. It is just that different
people have different maintenance levels. Someone may be able to maintain
their weight on say 1200 calories while someone else may require 2200.
Again many factors are involve. I can maintain my weight on approximately
1300 - 1500 calories/day. My 15-year old son can literally eat the
equivalent of 2500 calories and not gain a pound (it must be nice). Granted
the testosterone poisoning has hit and he goes to the Y every day and works
out. My 13-year old daughter, on the other hand, has the opposite problem.
> : are not average and have several things going against them. One is
their
> : maintenance levels are low usually due to a much slower metabolism.
Then
>
> Most people who have a "much slower metabolism" usually have several
> lifestyle choices going on which has led them to that state. Few people
> have a naturally low and un-fixable "low metabolism" to the extent that
> they'd wind up obese.
>
That is also not true. Like many physiological characteristics there is a
wide variation in metabolic rate regardless of lifestyle. People with
hyperthyroidism could sit on a couch for days at a time and do nothing to
prevent them from losing weight. There are people who have naturally slower
metabolisms; although, I agree with you that you can force yourself to
exercise and increase your metabolism to compensate. On the other hand, it
is probably easier to fall into the bad lifestyle choices if you have to
fight harder to get your metabolism up.
MikeR
jes...@hexdump.org
: is pegged to metabolic rate so you are right. It is just that different
It is probably not *always* going to be *exactly* "3500" but the point is
that it isn't that they need to burn off more or less then others, but that
they're *not* burning off more or less then others. That's a big, albeit
a semantical difference.
: people have different maintenance levels. Someone may be able to maintain
: their weight on say 1200 calories while someone else may require 2200.
: Again many factors are involve. I can maintain my weight on approximately
: 1300 - 1500 calories/day. My 15-year old son can literally eat the
: equivalent of 2500 calories and not gain a pound (it must be nice). Granted
2500 is not much as a maintenance level. An average, relatively active
person should be able to consume 14-16x their bodyweight in calories a
day for maintenance. Couch potatos (like myself) might be lower than
that.
I was not arguing that people have varying metabolisms. My point is that
all of a sudden we seem to have an explosion of "genetically doomed'
folks that didn't exist before. Yes, those people exist. But the *vast*
majority of "poor metabolism" folks have some combination of: having
a crap diet, having a crap level of activity, having a crap lifestyle, and
having a crap set of eating habits (not just 'what' you eat, but 'when'
you eat and 'how').
Of course, most obese people who might actually accept that not everyone
is genetically doomed will swear up and down that "sure, not everyone is,
but *I* am!". The fact is that most likely they are *not*.
: That is also not true. Like many physiological characteristics there is a
: wide variation in metabolic rate regardless of lifestyle. People with
This is true.
However, the variation did not just magically go to "floor" levels of
metabolism for over half of a nation's population. What, did our
gene pool suddenly start selecting for "obesity" in the last 50 years?
Rediculousness.
: metabolisms; although, I agree with you that you can force yourself to
: exercise and increase your metabolism to compensate. On the other hand, it
: is probably easier to fall into the bad lifestyle choices if you have to
: fight harder to get your metabolism up.
The number of people who *can't* become slim are going to be a very small
proportion, and many many many orders of magnitude lower then the
proportion of folks who are obese.
Part of the problem is that the "fitness industry" (wrapping up the
diet/nutrition/etc in that) preys on the insecurities of these people to
make a book at their expense. The media doesn't help.
I can't tell you how many folks I have seen claim they're going on the
"atkins diet" and proceed to consume a metric assload of meat, butter
and eggs thinking that since they didn't get "fries with that" that they're
magically going to slim down. Low carb doesn't have any sort of magic
pixie dust as far as fat loss, tho some of its side effects will *help*
as long as you are *still* hypocaloric (it does take slightly more calories
for the body to digest protein then carbohydrates, but it takes more
calories to digest carbs then fat, so ... in either case, the diff is
so small as not to really make much of a dent in the waistline).
Or the dieters who go for 2-3 weeks eating very little of anything. Then
their metabolism craters. Then they get hungry. Then they eat. Thier
metabolism has gone to the floor from their retarded eating habits. They
get fatter. They blame genetics.
Or the people who are "counting calories" but get 95% of them in one
giant meal (I do this a lot, never said i was perfect ....), and then blame
genetics.
Or the people who order a 'diet coke' with their supersized double whopper
meal and figure it is helping.
I see very few people who eat anything resembling a sensible diet (again,
not just what but when and in what proportions/portions) when they're
attempting to lose weight.
And let's not get started w/ exercise. EVERYONE knows the wya to lose
that fat is to go out and do 238952352 hours of cardio, right? Of course,
after about 30-60 mins of it your body has gone catabolic and burning
muscle for fuel, only *lowering* your metabolism in the long run. You see
this a lot w/ overweight women due to the stigma that women shouldn't lift,
more often then with guys.
You can even 'diet' efficiently on *fast food*, if done right. I lost a
good bit of weight last summer consisting almost soley on Wendys & Burger
King. However, this winter I gained a good bit of weight doing the same.
What was the difference? Last summer I'd stop in 5-6 times a day, get
something relatively small each time and carefully chosen for its
nutrient contents. This winter i'd go in 1-2 times a day, get a combo
meal, chow down on the fries, soda, etc (fries & soda == worst part of the
meal to begin with).
But, people like to blame things. You simply can not make the argument that
these people are genetically doomed when this wasn't the case just 50 years
ago. How did we become a nation of people with bad fat genes? It doesn't
add up at all. No, we just overeat and have no mental discipline.
Mike & Susan Romano
<jes...@hexdump.org> wrote in message
news:n9j09.676118$cQ3.105784@sccrnsc01...
> Mike & Susan Romano <wild...@winco.net> wrote:
> : There are some recent studies to suggest that is not the case; although,
it
> : is pegged to metabolic rate so you are right. It is just that different
>
> It is probably not *always* going to be *exactly* "3500" but the point is
> that it isn't that they need to burn off more or less then others, but
that
> they're *not* burning off more or less then others. That's a big, albeit
> a semantical difference.
>
> : people have different maintenance levels. Someone may be able to
maintain
> : their weight on say 1200 calories while someone else may require 2200.
> : Again many factors are involve. I can maintain my weight on
approximately
> : 1300 - 1500 calories/day. My 15-year old son can literally eat the
> : equivalent of 2500 calories and not gain a pound (it must be nice).
Granted
>
> 2500 is not much as a maintenance level. An average, relatively active
> person should be able to consume 14-16x their bodyweight in calories a
> day for maintenance. Couch potatos (like myself) might be lower than
> that.
>
low metabolism relative to some.
> I was not arguing that people have varying metabolisms. My point is that
> all of a sudden we seem to have an explosion of "genetically doomed'
> folks that didn't exist before. Yes, those people exist. But the *vast*
> majority of "poor metabolism" folks have some combination of: having
> a crap diet, having a crap level of activity, having a crap lifestyle, and
> having a crap set of eating habits (not just 'what' you eat, but 'when'
> you eat and 'how').
>
True.
> Of course, most obese people who might actually accept that not everyone
> is genetically doomed will swear up and down that "sure, not everyone is,
> but *I* am!". The fact is that most likely they are *not*.
>
> : That is also not true. Like many physiological characteristics there is
a
> : wide variation in metabolic rate regardless of lifestyle. People with
>
> This is true.
>
> However, the variation did not just magically go to "floor" levels of
> metabolism for over half of a nation's population. What, did our
> gene pool suddenly start selecting for "obesity" in the last 50 years?
>
Agreed, the fast food industry and the plethora of non-active methods of
work and recreation has doomed us more than our genes.
> Rediculousness.
>
> : metabolisms; although, I agree with you that you can force yourself to
> : exercise and increase your metabolism to compensate. On the other hand,
it
> : is probably easier to fall into the bad lifestyle choices if you have to
> : fight harder to get your metabolism up.
>
> The number of people who *can't* become slim are going to be a very small
> proportion, and many many many orders of magnitude lower then the
> proportion of folks who are obese.
>
I would agree.
> Part of the problem is that the "fitness industry" (wrapping up the
> diet/nutrition/etc in that) preys on the insecurities of these people to
> make a book at their expense. The media doesn't help.
>
There is a lot of truth to this as well. The fitness industry does seem to
try and promise they can get people into unrealistic condition.
Wow, I've unleashed a monograph. I don't want to get into enabling/victim
game of just blaming genetics. What I am saying is there are a multiple of
factors that include genetics, lifestyle etc. that can make it a lot more
difficult for some to lose weight. I also don't want to get into the diet
thing. I have tried to stay out of that since some diets seem to work for
some people while others seem to work for others and I am hardly and expert
on that. I just don't want to jump on Charlie Weis since I have no idea how
much he has tried to lose weight over the years. I don't buy the argument,
however, that it is because of a lack of mental discipline. I read
somewhere that many obese people have tremendous mental discipline. It is
just that once they lose the weight, they can't keep it off. It takes an
entire and permenant lifestyle change. As far as Weis goes we have no idea
how much he has tried to do this. The gastric bypass surgery is usually
the last resort when everything else has failed and I am going to give him
the benefit of the doubt that that is what he did. Even then, I have read
where gastric bypass surgery also fails to keep the weight off. Regardless,
I just hope he recovers not because I want to see him on the field but
because you hate to see someone and his family go through such an ordeal.
MikeR
jes...@hexdump.org
: low metabolism relative to some.
But the thing is, you could *probably* bump yourself up at least several
notches thru lifestyle changes, eating habit changes, etc.
: game of just blaming genetics. What I am saying is there are a multiple of
: factors that include genetics, lifestyle etc. that can make it a lot more
Right. But what I'm saying is that basically the only viable reasons to
use as an excuse are things like genetics, disease, etc. "Lifestyle",
"eating habits", etc are totally changeable by the person -> and the fact
is that *most* people for one reason or another either *dno't* change
(e.g. me) or change in a poor manner.
: somewhere that many obese people have tremendous mental discipline. It is
: just that once they lose the weight, they can't keep it off. It takes an
: entire and permenant lifestyle change. As far as Weis goes we have no idea
Which, I declare is a lack of mental discipline to not enact "entire
and permanent lifestyle changes". I *know* what I could do, I do not. I'd
rather eat junk food and drink beer and not go the the gym.
And right htere is one of the major problems. People view "diets" as a
way to drop the weight, when it should just be a lifestyle change of eating
habits where they slowly increase their calorie intake using the same
patterns when they reach what they want.
: the benefit of the doubt that that is what he did. Even then, I have read
: where gastric bypass surgery also fails to keep the weight off. Regardless,
If the bypass 'worked', unless the person had the most absurdly rediculous
eating habits ever (like constantly keeping full (with the micro-stomach)
with the most calorically dense food possible) this is going to be difficult
to do for all but a small fraction of people. Basically you *really* have
to try to not lose weight after that surgery.
: I just hope he recovers not because I want to see him on the field but
: because you hate to see someone and his family go through such an ordeal.
Definitely agree.