NFC Norris rivals
Yukon Jack
For me, I've always hated the damn Bucs. Even when they stunk up the field
in those light orange pajamas with the queer swashbuckler logo, they still
always seemed to split with the Lions. Now with two media crazed big mouths
(Sapp and Johnson) they drive me up the wall. Martin Gramatica being a
little douche is just icing on the cake.
For least hated, it's hard to say, but I guess the Packers aren't so bad.
Favre is a great athlete and leader, and even with a depleted roster they
showed some heart at the end of the season this year. I also enjoy teams
with a great history and an "old-school" traditional feel about them.
JACK
SkippyPB
enlightened us:
History says it is the Bears because the Lions have played against
them the most. The Packers would be next. The Vikings and Bucs are
relative newcomers.
Regards,
////
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Steve
DamnYankee
> History says it is the Bears because the Lions have played against
> them the most. The Packers would be next. The Vikings and Bucs are
> relative newcomers.
Agreed - except for the Vikes...They entered the NFL 40 years ago this
year. Secondly, I look at them as division rivals because Minnesota had
an NFL team in Duluth in the early days of the NFL.
The Bucs were nothing more than a graph-in. They're just another
football team as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather have had the
Cardinals (Chicago, then St. Louis, now AZ) in our division - they were
in the division all throughout the 20s, 30s, 40s & 50s. By they way,
The Cards and the Bears are the only 2 original NFL teams left. The
Pack was not an original NFL team.
DY
All the News
> The Bucs were nothing more than a graph-in. They're just another
> football team as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather have had the
> Cardinals (Chicago, then St. Louis, now AZ) in our division - they were
> in the division all throughout the 20s, 30s, 40s & 50s. By they way,
> The Cards and the Bears are the only 2 original NFL teams left. The
> Pack was not an original NFL team.
Hmmm... I suppose it depends on what your definition of
'is' is... Where not the Portsmouth Spartans one of the
"original" NFL teams? And if so, are you disqualifing the
Lions based on the move or the name change?
Chris
SRS
thru a GB game at the Silver Dome with all those idiots with plastic wedges
of cheese on their heads around you. THAT'S OUR STADIUM. If they wanna
come to the game fine, but you shouldn't be able to wear a cheesehead in
OUR STADIUM without getting a black eye.
"Yukon Jack" <FTac...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:KZe56.3047$%Fi7.13...@news.randori.com...
SkippyPB
<boe...@river.it.gvsu.edu> enlightened us:
Okay, an NFL history lesson is in order here.
The first vestiges of "playing for pay" occured first around
Pittsburgh's athletic clubs where victory was a means to build
membership. The first known "pro" at this time was
William (Pudge) Heffelfinger, one of Yale's greatest players in the
late 19th century who had heard the purity of the sport -- i.e., play
for fun, not for money -- preached during four years playing for
Walter Camp and playing with Amos Alonzo Stagg. In a short
time, players on teams from Cleveland south to Cincinnati -- Akron,
Canton, Massillon, Youngstown, Shelby, Alliance, Columbus -- were
being paid and from that group, came the first semmblance of a pro
league.
The best known player was Jim Thorpe, an All-America at the Carlisle
Indian School from 1908-12, a 6-1, 195-pound son of Sac and Fox
parents. No player in the first two decades of the century matched his
feats, for which he was paid $250 per game by the Canton Bulldogs when
they signed him in 1915. In 1916, Canton won ten games and was
acclaimed the world professional champion.
The game began to flourish in its own unregulated and out-of-the-hat
style, but not without problems -- rising salaries, out-of-control
player movement and the illegal use of collegians. Soon, many teams in
the Ohio League and the Decatur Staley's and Racine Cardinals from
Illinois, the Muncie Flyers from Indiana, and teams from Buffalo and
Rochester, N.Y., sought relief.
Finally, on August 20, 1920, representatives from the Canton Bullodgs,
the Akron Pros, Dayton Triangles and Cleveland Indians, met in the
Hupmobile showroom of Ralph Hay in Canton. They had letters from teams
in Buffalo, Rochester and Hammond, Indiana, all willing to form a
league with the stated purpose of "raising the standard of
professional football, eliminating bidding for players, cooperation in
compiling schedules, refrain from signing collegians still in school
or using money inducements to lure players from other teams."
A month later, ten teams--including the Cardinals, Staleys, Muncie,
and Rock Island, Illinois--attended a second meeting. George Halas,
representing the Staley's, always recalled a lack of chairs forced
team reps to sit on the running boards and fenders of the
showroom's cars, "drinking beer from buckets while we tried to plan
the future of professional football."
What emerged was the American Professional Football Association, with
Thorpe as president and a $100 entry fee. Thorpe really did nothing in
his job and no one ever paid a hundred bucks, but the NFL was born.
Halas, player-coach of the Staleys, tried to claim the first title
after handing Paddy Driscoll's Cardinals a defeat to revenge the
Staleys' only loss of the season. But they played a scoreless tie the
following week against unbeaten Akron and the latter is considered the
first NFL champion. Oh yes, Halas also ignored the ban on player
movement because he hired Driscoll, the Cards player-coach, for that
game.
In 1921, the owners replaced Thorpe with Joe Carr, who owned the
Columbus Panhandles, and he guided the league through its foreative
years until his death in 1939. He wrote a league constitution and
by-laws, defended team's territorial rights; restricted player
movement; tightened membership criteria; and had a league office in
Columbus.
In 1921, 12 of the 14 original teams returned and were joined by the
Green Bay Packers and New York Giants. The latter lasted just two
games but returned four years later when Tim Mara purchased the rights
for $2500. The Staleys moved to Chicago, and became the Bears a year
later.
While Carr's organizational skills kept the NFL in tact, Halas'
promotional skills got it moving. In 1925, he signed Illinois
All-America Red Grange, the nation's best known college star, a couple
of days after his final college game. Two and a half months later,
Grange and the Bears had criss-crossed the country in a body-numbing
exhibition series that played to huge crowds -- more than 70,000 in
games in New York and Los Angeles.
In 1926, after Grange bolted the NFL to help form the first of three
American Football Leagues, Ernie Nevers and the Duluth Eskimos -- all
14 of them -- played 29 league and exhibition games on a national tour
and Nevers played all but 29 minutes of the entire season. Grange's
AFL lasted a year but he injured his knee and never again was
the great player of his college days, though certainly good enough in
eight more seasons to earn a spot in the Hall of Fame.
While this called attention to the NFL, the league did not shake out
its struggling franchises until the Great Depression in 1929. Only the
teams in the big urban areas, plus Gren Bay, whose citizens owned the
team, and Portsmouth, Ohio surived when the "new era" began in 1933
with an NFL of two divisions.
The previous season ended with the Bears and Portsmouth Spartans tied
for first place. Carr ordered a playoff to decide the champion, thus
introducing the NFL's first title game, won by Chicago 9-0. A brutal
winter storm forced Halas to move the game indoors to Chicago Stadium,
using as a field dirt left over from a just-departed circus. There
was room only for an 80-yard field so once a team passed midfield, the
ball was moved back 20 yards to compensate for the short field; it was
spotted 15 yards from the sideline on every play because of the
hockey rink dasher around the field; and the goal posts were placed on
the goal line. The latter two inovations later became part of the NFL.
So starting with 1920 as the base year for the birth of the NFL, the
only teams still playing that can trace their team history back to
that date are the Chicago Bears (Decatur Staleys), Detroit Lions
(Portsmouth Spartans) and Arizona Cardinals (Chicago Cardinals).
It should be noted that the Spartans did not move to Detroit until
1930. In 1920, the Detroit Heralds were a charter member of the
American Professional Football Association, which was the original
name of the present NFL, but the club folded after two years. The
Detroit Panthers appeared in 1925, but also folded after two seasons.
In 1928, the Detroit Wolverines were formed, but they failed after
just one year.
Class is dismissed.
DamnYankee
> Hmmm... I suppose it depends on what your definition of
> 'is' is... Where not the Portsmouth Spartans one of the
> "original" NFL teams? And if so, are you disqualifing the
> Lions based on the move or the name change?
No Chris,
The Spartans (aka Lions) were not an original NFL team. From Davis'
"Detroit Lions" book, "...for a few years up to 1929, Portsmouth played
as an independent pro team. Hal Griffen became on of the team's owners
as well as coach, when the Spartans entered the NFL in 1930. Back then,
the offensive philosophy was to run the ball at your opponent until
their nose bled..."
As for old Detroit teams before Portsmouth Spartans moved to
Detroit...if memory serves me, the old APFL (American Professional
Football League) formed in 1920 evolved into the NFL in 1922. It is
true that Detroit did field a team in 1920 (The Detroit Heralds).
However, they were considered "unofficials" in the league but got
recognition as part of the 1920 season because they played many games
against the league's teams.
I think there were 10 charter teams in 1920, and I know that the Chicago
Cardinals (later St. Louis, now Arizona) & Chicago Bears are the only 2
left. There were 3 other "unofficial" teams in 1920 besides the Detroit
Heralds: The Chicago Tigers, Buffalo & Columbus (I don't remember their
monikers). The Heralds folded after 2 seasons.
In 1925 the NFL grew to 20 teams and awarded Detroit its' first NFL
franchise: the Detroit Panthers (who did impressively well their first
year, but I don't recall their W/L record). They folded after two years
(in 1927) - lack of football fan support.
In 1928, the NFL awarded another NFL franchise to Detroit to replace the
failing Panthers: The Detroit Wolverines. I believe this team folded
after one season also due to lack of football fan support.
Just think, Chicago had THREE(!) pro football teams at one time and the
fans just loved football! Meanwhile in Detroit, football floundered,
and still does I think to this day. Since this is the 4th incarnation
of Pro Football in Detroit.
It may be that the Lions curse came about when the last Portsmouth
Spartan player died and has come back to curse the move from Portsmouth
to Detroit...
Ya never know...
Peace :)
DY
DamnYankee
>
> Actually I would have to say that Green Bay is my most hated. Try and sit
> thru a GB game at the Silver Dome with all those idiots with plastic wedges
> of cheese on their heads around you. THAT'S OUR STADIUM. If they wanna
> come to the game fine, but you shouldn't be able to wear a cheesehead in
> OUR STADIUM without getting a black eye.
That's a recent new fad (within the last 5-10 years). I'm glad they
wear their cheeseheads - they look so rediculous that Cheesehead Jeering
has become a sport all its own!
DY
steve
Not quite...
The Detroit Heralds were NOT a charter member; they one of three
"unofficial" teams that played the APFL teams and played them often
enough to be included in the standings, but they were NOT charter
members.
Secondly, the Portsmouth Spartans came into existence in 1928. Shares
of stock of this new franchise were issued that year. Proof? An
original 1928 stock certificate for the "new" Portsmouth Spartans that
sold a month or two on Ebay for a couple hundred bucks (YIKES!!!).
Peace :)
DY
SkippyPB
enlightened us:
<<snippage>>
>> It should be noted that the Spartans did not move to Detroit until
>> 1930. In 1920, the Detroit Heralds were a charter member of the
>> American Professional Football Association, which was the original
>> name of the present NFL, but the club folded after two years. The
>> Detroit Panthers appeared in 1925, but also folded after two seasons.
>> In 1928, the Detroit Wolverines were formed, but they failed after
>> just one year.
>>
>> Class is dismissed.
>
>Not quite...
>
>The Detroit Heralds were NOT a charter member; they one of three
>"unofficial" teams that played the APFL teams and played them often
>enough to be included in the standings, but they were NOT charter
>members.
>
>Secondly, the Portsmouth Spartans came into existence in 1928. Shares
>of stock of this new franchise were issued that year. Proof? An
>original 1928 stock certificate for the "new" Portsmouth Spartans that
>sold a month or two on Ebay for a couple hundred bucks (YIKES!!!).
>
>Peace :)
>
>DY
According to www.detroitlions.com the Detroit Heralds were a charter
member. The Spartans joined the NFL on July 12, 1930 , according to
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/teams/lions.cfm. So it would
appear that only the Bears and Cardinals can trace their histories
back to that September day in 1920 when the NFL was first formed. I
should have dug a little deeper before posting the history. Please
don't flog me. I'll do better next time, promise.
DamnYankee
*LOL* I'm not floggin' ya at all :) It's just that the info that
detroitlions.com gave you was incorrect. THEY should dig a little
deeper before they post information as fact on their website. Cool?
DY :)
SkippyPB
enlightened us:
Cool. Sad you can't trust information about the Lions from their own
website. Mismanaged like the team?
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
In the beginning, God created earth and rested.
Then God created man and rested.
Then God created woman.
Since then, neither God nor man has rested.
Aaron Spelling
division rival. Randy Moss the Open Mouth Freak and Cris Carter the
Tortoise from Bugs Bunny Cartoons can Kiss My Ass. Their defense is as
dirty as they come.
---Just My Half Cent Worth ;-)
SCOT <---= D-Lion
information. I don't know who is running that site, but it is pathetic.
They are currently running a fan poll for the Lions Top Offensive Player
of the Year, and one of the choices is KR Desmond Howard.
Damn, and I thought I had this football thing figured out. Can somebody
please explain to me where the Kick Returner lines up on the OFFENSE?
All the News
"SCOT <---= D-Lion" <Detroi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26057-3A...@storefull-628.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Actually, I think the Lions lined him up as a Wide Receiver for
at least one play this past year. Don't think he caught the ball
or was even thrown to, but I do seem to remember he was
in as receiver once...
Chris
SCOT <---= D-Lion
Player of the Year, and they list him as a KR!
Last I checked, KRs only play on SPECIAL TEAMS, and he certainly didn't
do anything on Offense as a WR to deserve a Top Player vote!
Their site is pathetic!
All the News
> Yes, Chris, but that is not the point. Their poll is for Top Offensive
> Player of the Year, and they list him as a KR!
Yeah, my post was really ment more as a joke...
I forgot the smileys... :) :)
Chris
Patrick_Boland
"Yukon Jack" <FTac...@aol.com> wrote:
> In your opinion, who are our most hated and least hated NFC Central
rivals?
Well, Jack, it depends how old you are I suppose. All I can remember is
that the Vikings won teh NFC Norris every season (so it seemed)
throughout my impressionable years (1970's). GBay blew, Chicago blew,
and the Lions blew. Maybe it wasn't so much that the Vikes were good
(zero SBs proves that), but that they didn't have to play anyone in
order to get to the playoffs. I was JEALOUS!
I hate the Vikings, now and forever, Amen.
In fact, Sweetness was my favorite player, so I couldn't very well hate
the Bears, and GBay was like up (kicking boys).
TBay don't count to an old-timer like me (37). They could win 50 Super
Bowls and still not live down those first two seasons. 0-16 and
orange/red uniforms were enough for me to consider them harmless
forever.
Patrick Boland
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
LeeDog23
In 2000, Desmond Howard had two receptions for 14 yards, with a long reception
of 10 yards.
By the way, nobody should be surprised that the Lions don't know what position
Howard plays. On at least two occasions during the pre-game introductions,
Aaron Gibson was announced as being from Ohio State. Only the Lions wouldn't
know their former first round draft pick went to school. Pathetic.