49er-Haters Society
NHS
To: True football fans everywhere
From: The 49er-Haters Society
Re: Greetings!
Just wanted to take a moment during the off-season to tell you
about the 49er-Haters Society (NHS). We're a group of fans of
many different NFL teams that share the common bond of disliking
the most overrated sports franchise in history-- the S.F. 49ers!
We have a web site chock full of stats and go inside the numbers
to put the recent 49er success into perspective. We take on
previously taboo subjects such as: why the 49ers are NOT the best
team in football; why the 49ers are NOT the "classiest" team in
the NFL; and why the media loves to suck up to them. Our page is
not about profane or slanderous insults, but instead it is
thoughtful and logical arguments against which no 49er fan stands
a chance. We've done such a job that one 49er fan got so
frustrated he invented a web page devoted to hating us!
You, too, may have encountered unbearable 49er fans and/or been
frustrated at the spin a 49er story gets in the media. Even if
you don't share the understanding of the "49er problem," the page
is still worth your time because of all of the stats and articles
you don't get to see in your newspaper, and it is a place for
real, intelligent football discussion.
So regardless of your feelings about the 49ers, we encourage you
to come visit our web site at:
http://www.scruznet.com/~nhs/49hater.html
Thanks for the time.
--------------------------------------------
49ER-HATERS SOCIETY
n...@scruznet.com
http://www.scruznet.com/~nhs/49hater.html
P.O. Box 973
Felton, CA
95018
Daniel Spiess or Petra Lowe
> So regardless of your feelings about the 49ers, we encourage you
> to come visit our web site at:
>
> http://www.scruznet.com/~nhs/49hater.html
>
> Thanks for the time.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> 49ER-HATERS SOCIETY
> n...@scruznet.com
> http://www.scruznet.com/~nhs/49hater.html
> P.O. Box 973
> Felton, CA
> 95018
This page is a riot!! Now we need one for the Raiders - :)
Raider-Hater Society - Sounds great!
mtohio
NHS wrote:
>
> To: True football fans everywhere
> From: The 49er-Haters Society
> Re: Greetings!
>
> Just wanted to take a moment during the off-season to tell you
> about the 49er-Haters Society (NHS). We're a group of fans of
> many different NFL teams that share the common bond of disliking
> the most overrated sports franchise in history-- the S.F. 49ers!
>
> We have a web site chock full of stats and go inside the numbers
> to put the recent 49er success into perspective. We take on
> previously taboo subjects such as: why the 49ers are NOT the best
> team in football; why the 49ers are NOT the "classiest" team in
> the NFL; and why the media loves to suck up to them. Our page is
> not about profane or slanderous insults, but instead it is
> thoughtful and logical arguments against which no 49er fan stands
> a chance. We've done such a job that one 49er fan got so
> frustrated he invented a web page devoted to hating us!
>
> You, too, may have encountered unbearable 49er fans and/or been
> frustrated at the spin a 49er story gets in the media. Even if
> you don't share the understanding of the "49er problem," the page
> is still worth your time because of all of the stats and articles
> you don't get to see in your newspaper, and it is a place for
> real, intelligent football discussion.
Being a Bengals fan...I'm no friend of the 49'ers...and I know deep down
that it is just pure luck, media manipulation, and most likely a deep
rooted conspiracy within the NFL to hand them all those Super Bowl
titles. I'm sure the 49'ers are worried about all this...and would do
something about it today...if they didn't keep tripping and falling on
all those damn Vince Lombardi trophies laying around the front office.
Gregg Casillo
In article <4qjqk4$9...@news.scruz.net>, NHS <n...@scruznet.com> wrote:
>To: True football fans everywhere
>From: The 49er-Haters Society
>Re: Greetings!
>
>Just wanted to take a moment during the off-season to tell you
>about the 49er-Haters Society (NHS). We're a group of fans of
>many different NFL teams that share the common bond of disliking
>the most overrated sports franchise in history-- the S.F. 49ers!
>
>We have a web site chock full of stats and go inside the numbers
>to put the recent 49er success into perspective. We take on
>previously taboo subjects such as: why the 49ers are NOT the best
>team in football; why the 49ers are NOT the "classiest" team in
>the NFL; and why the media loves to suck up to them. Our page is
>not about profane or slanderous insults, but instead it is
>thoughtful and logical arguments against which no 49er fan stands
>a chance. We've done such a job that one 49er fan got so
>frustrated he invented a web page devoted to hating us!
>
>You, too, may have encountered unbearable 49er fans and/or been
>frustrated at the spin a 49er story gets in the media. Even if
>you don't share the understanding of the "49er problem," the page
>is still worth your time because of all of the stats and articles
>you don't get to see in your newspaper, and it is a place for
>real, intelligent football discussion.
>
>to come visit our web site at:
>
>http://www.scruznet.com/~nhs/49hater.html
>
>Thanks for the time.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------
> 49ER-HATERS SOCIETY
> n...@scruznet.com
> http://www.scruznet.com/~nhs/49hater.html
> P.O. Box 973
> Felton, CA
> 95018
>
>
Get a life. I hate the Cowboys as much as any 49er-hater out there, but I've
got better things to do.
Val Salva
Statistics can be manipulated into any damn thing you want.
The old addage Money talks and bullshit walks, is a good one. Two and a
half years after his enriching kick in the Ass from Art Modell, Kosar
finds himself with an 87.5% paycut, and the humilliation of being
flatly rejected by Bill Cohwer.
But wait, Bernie is happy where he is, right? So if he is happy being a
jockstrap carrier, why did he try to leave his precious Miami? Bernie
cannot find a starting job for a reason. He can't play.
And please, choke on Lindy Infante. He was a flop at Green Bay, he got
rode out on a cheese wheel. His draft picks were horrible. And remember
all those important games Kosar couldn't close out? Hey Infante was up
to it again himself just this past year.
The Steeler playoff game this past year. Get this, 4 minutes to go,
Steelers with no time outs left. Colts have the ball at their own 42,
3'd and one, a first down all but kills the Steelers. Cowher puts 9 men
on the line of scrimmage, Infante sends in what? A DRAW PLAY ! Right
into the belly of a nine man line. SQUASH, PUNT< STEELER SCORE> INFANTE
WAITS ON THE OUTCOME OF A LAST MINUTE HAIL MARY PASS TO DETERMINE HIS
FATE> Kosar and Infante both, have no balls and cannot put big games
away. Marty, Kosar ans Infante. Three conservative losers.
Kim , you can quote me all the statistics that you want. I judge Kosar
by what he did when it really counted. He had the opportunity not to
turn the ball back over to Denver, in the Drive game. Kosar got
consevative and instead of gambling to keep the ball, he protected ot
and gave it back to Elway. That is not smart football, it is gutless
football.
And IF as you say, Clevelands Defense was weak, and responsible for the
drive, Surely then Intelligent Kosar would have realized that he had
better take a chance on putting the finishing touch on the game.
You want to talk consevative. If Kosar tried to get a close out TD
against Denver, and perhaps turned the ball over. The Browns would have
actually fared better. They would have gotten the ball back with time
left for Bernie to mastermind one of his patented drives. Actually, a
possible turnover would have been a better outcome than Kosar eating
enough clock up to punt away and get beat.
These type of statistics are the ones that make hall of fame QB's. Sipe
threw for Td's. many more than Kosar. SIpe also was a more effective
3'd down passer. In addition. Sipe was more proficient at getting TD's
inside the 10. Sipe never played with as many pro bowlers as Bernie
either.
I will get off my Kosar stinks tirade, but clearly, his place among
great Cleveland QB's lies somewhere behind Sipe.
dra...@henge.com
Super Bowls than any other franchise (excluding the big D). What else
do you need, unless your a Dallas fan. (By the way, SF did it first).
Ted D Horwitz
>In article <4qjqk4$9...@news.scruz.net>, NHS <n...@scruznet.com> wrote:
>>To: True football fans everywhere
>>From: The 49er-Haters Society
>>Re: Greetings!
>>
>>--------------------------------------------
>> 49ER-HATERS SOCIETY
>> n...@scruznet.com
>> http://www.scruznet.com/~nhs/49hater.html
>> P.O. Box 973
>> Felton, CA
>> 95018
>>
>>
>The only thing that your missing is the fact that they have won more
>Super Bowls than any other franchise (excluding the big D). What else
>do you need, unless your a Dallas fan. (By the way, SF did it first).
Did what first? Win a Super Bowl? Sorry. Wasn't the 49ers first win in 1981?
I think Dallas won at least one in the 70s - I forget which year, but I
think it was 71. Seems like they beat either Miami or Washington.
Don't get me wrong, I hate Dallas.
Ted
Ted D Horwitz
>Statistics can be manipulated into any damn thing you want.
<mindless blathering about Kosar deleted>
>I will get off my Kosar stinks tirade
Sounds wonderful, but I doubt it. Get an education, and get a life.
, but clearly, his place among
>great Cleveland QB's lies somewhere behind Sipe.
Hmmm, I don't think I've seen you bring up that particular point before. I
probably would agree. But just because Sipe was better doesn't mean that
Kosar stinks.
Off the top of my head, 3 points:
1. Sipe was also a great competitor, but he was inconsistent (unlike Kosar in
his prime). Some days he was awful. I remember Gib Shanley saying "Sipe is
not throwing well today" a lot.
2. Kosar did much better against the Steelers.
3. Kosar won at least some playoff games.
Spike
wrote:
>In article <4qqjgm$c...@henge2.henge.com> dra...@henge.com writes:
>>The only thing that your missing is the fact that they have won more
>>Super Bowls than any other franchise (excluding the big D). What else
>>do you need, unless your a Dallas fan. (By the way, SF did it first).
Yeah, but Dallas did it best!
>Did what first? Win a Super Bowl? Sorry. Wasn't the 49ers first win in 1981?
>I think Dallas won at least one in the 70s - I forget which year, but I
>think it was 71. Seems like they beat either Miami or Washington.
Actually, The Cowboys won 2 Super Bowl in the 70's, vs. Miami (Super Bowl 6
after the '71 season), and vs. Denver (Super Bowl 12 after the '77 season).
Stephen Decatur Morrow
References: <4qjqk4$9...@news.scruz.net> <4qkgla$b...@service3.uky.edu> <4qqkpg$6...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Distribution:
Val Salva (big...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Statistics can be manipulated into any damn thing you want.
: The old addage Money talks and bullshit walks, is a good one. Two and a
: half years after his enriching kick in the Ass from Art Modell, Kosar
: finds himself with an 87.5% paycut, and the humilliation of being
: flatly rejected by Bill Cohwer.
: But wait, Bernie is happy where he is, right? So if he is happy being a
: jockstrap carrier, why did he try to leave his precious Miami? Bernie
: cannot find a starting job for a reason. He can't play.
: And please, choke on Lindy Infante. He was a flop at Green Bay, he got
: rode out on a cheese wheel. His draft picks were horrible. And remember
: all those important games Kosar couldn't close out? Hey Infante was up
: to it again himself just this past year.
: The Steeler playoff game this past year. Get this, 4 minutes to go,
: Steelers with no time outs left. Colts have the ball at their own 42,
: 3'd and one, a first down all but kills the Steelers. Cowher puts 9 men
: on the line of scrimmage, Infante sends in what? A DRAW PLAY ! Right
: into the belly of a nine man line. SQUASH, PUNT< STEELER SCORE> INFANTE
: WAITS ON THE OUTCOME OF A LAST MINUTE HAIL MARY PASS TO DETERMINE HIS
: FATE> Kosar and Infante both, have no balls and cannot put big games
: away. Marty, Kosar ans Infante. Three conservative losers.
: Kim , you can quote me all the statistics that you want. I judge Kosar
: by what he did when it really counted. He had the opportunity not to
: turn the ball back over to Denver, in the Drive game. Kosar got
: consevative and instead of gambling to keep the ball, he protected ot :
and gave it back to Elway. That is not smart football, it is gutless
What!? You are a MORON! In that game Bernie threw a TD pass of
48yards to Brian Brennen with just over 5 minutes left. On the kickoff
the ball was downed on the Denver 2 yard line. Elway then took the
remaining time and drove 98 yards for the tying TD. Why do you think it
is called "The Drive". That TD took the life out of Cleveland and gave
Denver all the momentum. You are an absolute moron and know nothing
about football nor do you have any of your facts right.
Steve Morrow
Val Salva
For you, the focus was on the previous Bernie touchdown and the Drive.
That makes for great headlines but it does not tell the whole story.
Kosar had several opportunities to put this friggin game out of reach!
Great he got a TD to go ahead, His conservative play is what beat
Cleveland. The Drive story is for nincompoops to eat up. If Kosar would
have gotten TD s when he had the chance, instead of playing for
fieldgoals, the Drive would have been nothing more than a consolation
score. I watched the whole game hosebag. THE WHOLE GAME! GET IT??????
The DRIVE was only the last four minutes. KLUMSY KOSAR KEPT Denver
within Striking distance. That is the truth. Kosar could not close the
door. That is the truth. Infante and Marty are still ending games on
pins and needles, waiting for the outcome of a last second score. Just
like their "Masterful days" in Cleveland.
Look at those statistics hosebag. Kosar, Infante, Marty. Different
teams. Same crappy results. Why do ya think that is huh?
Kosar Blows
Infante really really Blows (Greenbay gave him the old Modell boot in
the ass treatment)
Marty is a Dud.
Hoffman is the voice of Flatulence. Phhhhhhhthhhhhhhhhhhhht
Ted D Horwitz
>For you, the focus was on the previous Bernie touchdown and the Drive.
>That makes for great headlines but it does not tell the whole story.
>Kosar had several opportunities to put this friggin game out of reach!
>Great he got a TD to go ahead, His conservative play is what beat
>Cleveland. The Drive story is for nincompoops to eat up. If Kosar would
>have gotten TD s when he had the chance, instead of playing for
>fieldgoals, the Drive would have been nothing more than a consolation
>score. I watched the whole game hosebag. THE WHOLE GAME! GET IT??????
>The DRIVE was only the last four minutes. KLUMSY KOSAR KEPT Denver
>within Striking distance. That is the truth. Kosar could not close the
>door. That is the truth.
You know, I actually agree with you about being too conservative in those '86
playoff games (although not about the source of that conservatism).
In the big games earlier that year, the offense did all kinds of neat
things. (I am someone who believes aggressive, imaginative offense is what
wins games.) The 66-yard bomb to Reggie Langhorne to open the 34-3 trouncing
of the Bengals, the TD pass to Slaughter in overtime to beat the Steelers, the
long halfback option pass by Herman Fontenot in the San Diego game .....
And after the regular season, Marty said with a twinkle in his eye that he had
more stuff up his sleeve for the playoffs. So I watched with great
anticipation, and it never materialized. It took a miracle comeback to beat
the lowly Jets, and then they got beat by The Drive.
>Infante and Marty are still ending games on
>pins and needles, waiting for the outcome of a last second score. Just
>like their "Masterful days" in Cleveland.
However, you just contradicted yourself. I doubt if the conservatism came
from Bernie. Seems like he always argued to go for the jugular, at least in
his heydays before 1990. (That's what got him into trouble later with
Belichick, who chewed him out right up to his last game, even when it WORKED!
That's the height of stupidity.) As you correctly point out, the
conservatism came from the coaches.
Watching the game on tape later, I've come to believe the lack of points was
more the result of a great defensive struggle than anything else. As for the
result, I definitely believe in jinxes. The Browns have ALWAYS had trouble
with Denver, since a long time before Elway came along. Just like they
couldn't win in Three Rivers (a jinx which Bernie beat, by the way).
Ted
Val Salva
Okay Ted, we found some common ground, kind of. Consevative coaches?
yes. But I thought Bernie called his own plays! Oh well whatever !
I also was one of those cheering like a madman when we finally won in
Three Rivers. It would have been nice to have beaten Bradshaw there! I
think with the post Bradshaw era QB s, Sipe also would have won in
three rivers.
In any case, we can move off of this Kosar deal. Except for David
Hoffman, the voice of reason. This guy is a bigger windbag than Rush
Limbaugh, who I am sure he admires.
By my final count, Kosar while not lousy like I have been agitating
about, was also not a great QB. to me, I would say 7 on a scale of 1
-10. Sipe at 7.5 .
Your serve!
David Hoffman - Wooooooooooooooooooooooshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhotair !
Val Salva - Ducking the stale liver and onions breath. Whew !
Nick
<mto...@cinternet.net> wrote:
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> Subject: Re: 49er-Haters Society
> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:33:52 -0700
> Organization: small town guy
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>
> NHS wrote:
> >
> > To: True football fans everywhere
> > From: The 49er-Haters Society
> > Re: Greetings!
> >
> > Just wanted to take a moment during the off-season to tell you
> > about the 49er-Haters Society (NHS). We're a group of fans of
> > many different NFL teams that share the common bond of disliking
> > the most overrated sports franchise in history-- the S.F. 49ers!
> >
> > We have a web site chock full of stats and go inside the numbers
> > to put the recent 49er success into perspective. We take on
> > previously taboo subjects such as: why the 49ers are NOT the best
> > team in football; why the 49ers are NOT the "classiest" team in
> > the NFL; and why the media loves to suck up to them. Our page is
> > not about profane or slanderous insults, but instead it is
> > thoughtful and logical arguments against which no 49er fan stands
> > a chance. We've done such a job that one 49er fan got so
> > frustrated he invented a web page devoted to hating us!
> >
> > You, too, may have encountered unbearable 49er fans and/or been
> > frustrated at the spin a 49er story gets in the media. Even if
> > you don't share the understanding of the "49er problem," the page
> > is still worth your time because of all of the stats and articles
> > you don't get to see in your newspaper, and it is a place for
> > real, intelligent football discussion.
>
> Being a Bengals fan...I'm no friend of the 49'ers...and I know deep down
> that it is just pure luck, media manipulation, and most likely a deep
> rooted conspiracy within the NFL to hand them all those Super Bowl
> titles. I'm sure the 49'ers are worried about all this...and would do
> something about it today...if they didn't keep tripping and falling on
> all those damn Vince Lombardi trophies laying around the front office.
I'm glad to a group of 49'er haters I am one true and true please send me
anything regarding the 49'ers badness. Unfortunately I work with fans of the
49'ers. I need ammo for the new season :)
Nick
D Horwitz <hor...@x1.us.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
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> From: hor...@x1.us.ohio-state.edu (Ted D Horwitz)
> Newsgroups:
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> Subject: Re: 49er-Haters Society
> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:48:11 GMT
> Organization: The Ohio State University
> Lines: 30
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>
> In article <4qqjgm$c...@henge2.henge.com> dra...@henge.com writes:
>
> >In article <4qjqk4$9...@news.scruz.net>, NHS <n...@scruznet.com> wrote:
> >>To: True football fans everywhere
> >>From: The 49er-Haters Society
> >>Re: Greetings!
> >>
>
> >>--------------------------------------------
> >> 49ER-HATERS SOCIETY
> >> n...@scruznet.com
> >> http://www.scruznet.com/~nhs/49hater.html
> >> P.O. Box 973
> >> Felton, CA
> >> 95018
> >>
> >>
> >The only thing that your missing is the fact that they have won more
> >Super Bowls than any other franchise (excluding the big D). What else
> >do you need, unless your a Dallas fan. (By the way, SF did it first).
>
> Did what first? Win a Super Bowl? Sorry. Wasn't the 49ers first win in 1981?
> I think Dallas won at least one in the 70s - I forget which year, but I
> think it was 71. Seems like they beat either Miami or Washington.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I hate Dallas.
>
>
> Ted
>
49'er are a good group but I do not like them much at all. However I do bet on
football and am interested in what people think about the upcoming season. Who
will do what please reply as I'm starved for E-mail. I've had this computer
for 3 months and don't get much E-mail. Thank-you
Val Salva
(Nick) writes:
>
>On 6/23/96 2:33PM, in message <31CDB8...@cinternet.net>, mtohio
><mto...@cinternet.net> wrote:
>
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>> Subject: Re: 49er-Haters Society
>> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:33:52 -0700
>> Organization: small town guy
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>> Xref: rainrgnews0 alt.sports.football.pro.houston-oilers:2234
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>> alt.sports.football.pro.detroit-lions:3536
>> alt.sports.football.pro.denver-broncos:4387
>> alt.sports.football.pro.cleve-browns:9624
>> alt.sports.football.pro.cinci-bengals:2134
>> alt.sports.football.pro.chicago-bears:5024
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>> alt.sports.football.pro.baltimore:270
>> alt.sports.football.pro.atl-falcons:1832
alt.sports.football.mn-vikings:10397
>>
>> >
>> > To: True football fans everywhere
>> > From: The 49er-Haters Society
>> > Re: Greetings!
>> >
have superbowl trphies coming out their ass, records coming out their
ass ,and probowlers coming out their ass.
I am a Browns fan. Hate the Niners. But they (unlike that dud Blosar)
are not overrated.
David Hoffman--- The voice of men with rice up their ass.
Val Salva
<horwitz.18...@x1.us.ohio-state.edu>, Ted
>D Horwitz <hor...@x1.us.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>> Path:
>>
rainrgnews0!psgrain!iafrica.com!uct.ac.za!und.ac.za!peacenjoy.mikom.csi
>>
!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!ne
s.cse.
>>
psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!x1.us.ohi
>>
alt.sports.football.pro.houston-oilers,alt.sports.football.pro.gb-packe
s,alt.
>>
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,alt.s
>>
ports.football.pro.cleve-browns,alt.sports.football.pro.cinci-bengals,a
t.spor
>> ts.footba
>> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:48:11 GMT
>> Organization: The Ohio State University
>> Lines: 30
>> Message-ID: <horwitz.18...@x1.us.ohio-state.edu>
>> References: <4qjqk4$9...@news.scruz.net>
<4qqjgm$c...@henge2.henge.com>
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.146.16.220
>> X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]
>> Xref: rainrgnews0 alt.sports.football.pro.houston-oilers:2244
>> alt.sports.football.pro.gb-packers:20131
>> alt.sports.football.pro.detroit-lions:3566
>> alt.sports.football.pro.denver-broncos:4396
>> alt.sports.football.pro.cleve-browns:9648
>> alt.sports.football.pro.cinci-bengals:2141
>>
>> In article <4qqjgm$c...@henge2.henge.com> dra...@henge.com writes:
>>
>> >In article <4qjqk4$9...@news.scruz.net>, NHS <n...@scruznet.com>
>> >>To: True football fans everywhere
>> >>From: The 49er-Haters Society
>> >>Re: Greetings!
>> >>
>>
that that bald fart Hoffman has admitted that I am his master and his
wifes daydream plaboy), this business of the draft is overrated. Most
of the top round guys never earn their keep. I think instead of a
draft, teams should buy chances in a hat. All the names of graduating
seniors go into a "hat".Teams then are given the opportunity to buy
chances at drawing names out of the hat. Teams can barter and trade
with each other to get more or less chances to pull out of the hat.
In addition with the graduating seniors, and flunking idiot juniors,
there should be about 10% blank name tag tickets in the hat.
After the bartering is done, the players names are drawn out of the
hat. The number one ticket goes first, then the second, third etc etc,
untill all the teams picks are used up. At that point, since there were
10% blank tickets, some teams will have paid and gotten nobody.
Likewise some teams will have made a killing. Furthermore, at the end
of the hat picking, the players who were left over get auctioned to
whoever has money remaining.
Any juniors however would have to return to school.
This draft system is far superior to the current system. It applies
randomness to the draft. It enables some teams to get lucky and really
benifit, while others can get totally screwed. YOu would really be
excited by watching a draft where anything could happen.
Plus, seeing the faces on the juniors who would have to return to
school would be hillarious. And how funny would it be to have the first
pick, some unknown idiot from a podunk school?
I urge all football fans to come on Board and write your congressmen to
get this pushed into action.I want to live in a world that offers such
sublime athletic entropy. CAn you imagine how funny it would be to see
angry and upset owners and coaches coming away with shit, and having to
pay top dollar for it?
This is a most excellent idea.It sure would spice up an idiotic and
boring draft.
Andrew Apold
Andrew stopped doing the krypton crawl when he heard someone using Val Salva's account say:
>
>You want to talk consevative. If Kosar tried to get a close out TD
>against Denver, and perhaps turned the ball over. The Browns would have
>actually fared better. They would have gotten the ball back with time
>left for Bernie to mastermind one of his patented drives. Actually, a
>possible turnover would have been a better outcome than Kosar eating
>enough clock up to punt away and get beat.
Thank you oh, so much, for crossposting this to every football group.
Since I am reading this in the Minnesota Vikings group, I will add
that Brian Sipe was our favorite 4th quarter Cleveland QB, as it was
he that kept tossing the INT's that got us back into the miracle
1980 game that Tommy Kramer won in the final second hail mary pass
to Amhad Rashad. Got us the NFC Central title that year (I apologise
since due to your follow ups this is going to the Detroit group, a
perhaps painful memory of the Lions collapse that year, losing close
games to a punt return TD in the final minutes and a kickoff return
TD in OT to Chicago)
Andrew Apold (mor...@magg.net)
/**********************************************/
/ C/C++, Legion, Blue Oyster Cult, Pink Floyd /
/ Hawkwind, Amtgard, Vikings, and S.A. Spurs /
/**********************************************/
"I was corrupt BEFORE I had power!"
-Random
Val Salva
off to a great start in life and while flipping hamburgers have
continued right along with what was originally set in motion.
As far as Kosar goes: He played along side more pro bowlers that any
other QB in Browns history. When the team beacme average, Kosars' many
inadequacies became evident. He started stinking up the field, getting
balls batted down and his throwing for 3 yds. on 3'd and 9, while
looking good for his completion%, totally flushed Clevelands Super Bowl
Hopes.
Kosar was released from Cleveland at the age of 29 years old. A young
age! One Year after Modell gave him the Boot, Kosar's salary had
dropped by 65%. Another year later and it dropped by 82%, And this
year,only 2 1/2 years after his oh so sublime exit from Cleveland,
Kosar's salary has diminished by 87.5%.
Diminishing salary is NOT the sign of talent.
And you can bite me with your interpretation that Kosar is happy where
he is at. Recently, Kosar presented himself to the Steelers (who have
no QB to speak of). Without even pondering the issue, on the same day
Kosar tried to sneak his way into another starting job, Bill Cowher
applied the second boot to KOsars clumsy ass and flatly, and publicly
rejected his offer. In addition, Since leaving Cleveland, NO NFL TEAM
even offered to let Blosar try out for a starting job, let alone offer
him a start.
Kosars supposed "admirer: Norv Turner was reported in the Chicago
Tribune as being "tepid and disinterested" in having Kosar come to
Washington. Please, don't tell me that Kosar is better off, and that
the Redskins are not a winner, or any such other nonsense. The point
here is not what the quality of the teams are who rejected Kosar, the
point is that these teams rejected Kosar. Kosar wanted to start. He
begged to start. At the age of 29, in his prime, having no debilitating
injuries, Kosar became what he should have been in the first place. A
jockstrap carrier.
Moon, Kelly, Esiason, Everitt etc, were all able to find multiple
offers to start. They were all able to find multimillion dollar
contracts. Kosar got a "save face" offer from his Father like friend
Jimmie Johnson, and a safe haven where he can finish his facade of a
career.
Last year when Marino got a concussion, Kosar came in. Immediately thr
Steelers perked up, got momentum and shut Kosar's ass down. In the
fourth quarter, with the Steelers threatening to make a touchdown and
draw to within three points, Dan Marino, woozie and blinking his eyes,
was shown on the sidelines strapping on his helmet, getting
instructions, and preparing to come back into the game. That my friends
said it all.
Kosar is a friggin Joke. He ran in to kneel with the football so he
could say he played in the superbowl. What a horses ass Kosar is.
Jimmie J really likes Kosars abilities huh? Why didn;t he give Bernie a
chance to run a few series then? It was a blow out game !!
SHula let his 2nd stringer come on at the end of both SB wins. Steve
young, Steve Bono both got to run some plays. Ditka played his 2 nd
stringer.
Kosar however, was kept under tight wraps so he couldn't screw anything
up.
Kosar is like "AUNT CLARA" on the old TV show, Bewitched. Everybody
liked her, but good god almighty, do not let her practice her craft.
Here's hoping Jimme J is forced to play KOsar for about 8-10 games this
year. My points will all be capitalized, punctuated and underlined.
Kosar's facade, while now exposed, will be completely opened>
Kosar Stinks. He always stunk. He always will !
Val Salva
OK kid's E mail me now. I am anxiously waiting to hear your responses!
1.) How would you like Brenie Kosar to be your starting QB?
2.) At 29 years old, Kosar was not offered one starting job. Why do you
think that was?
3.) In two short years after Art Modell applied his foot to KOsar's
clumsy ass, Kosars salary was reduced by 82.5%, currently he is playing
at a 87.5% pay cut. Now in my world, I do not brag or feel good about
geting my pay cut. Evidently, Browns fans think that this salary
dwindling is indeed the mark of Kosar s excellence. What is your
explanation?
4.) Kosar has been offered a lot of money to serve as a stunt double in
a new hollywood production of "The Caddy". Jim Carey will be playing
the Caddie that was once played by Jerry Lewis. The producers need a
guy to stumble and fall over his own two feet. They don't want Carey to
get hurt, (since he has talent)and feel that Kosar is a natural for
this job. Basically, Directoe Ron Howard feels that Kosar would not
even need coaching for this job. All he would have to do according to
Howard, is be his normal self. Ron Howard also added that after
watching hours upon hours of Kosar playing films, he and the entire
production staff were in stiches. Howard went on to say, "we all had
tears in our eyes from laughing so hard. This guy is perhaps the
funniest physical comedian since Shemp.
So here is the question. Last year Kosar threw for 3 TD's , 5 INT's,
had 17 balls batted at the line of scrimmage, and was sacked 9 times in
just 8 quarters starting. Several sacks were unassisted or caused by
gravity. True, the public got to laugh at Bernie, but the exposure in a
Jim Carey movie would be by far more widely viewed when you consider
home movie rental. Should Kosar continue to provide laughs for only the
NFL viewing public? Or should he really let the entire USA be exposed
to his weebling, wobbling, tripping, stumbling bumbling humor???
I look forward to your responses.
JEFFREY STEWART
My response is, this is A Detroit Lions news group, why post that shit here?
you seem to be overly concerned with Kosar, I had better Email him and tell him you
might start stalking him.
Yes, he is clumsy, so what, he also is not worth the time to worry about; but
hey, I know, you could start A club, and you could meet every day at 4:00 Or, you
could write A thousand page book, and the four or five other people in the world, who
feel as strong as you do about Kosar would buy it. If I were you, I would get started
right now. HURRY!
JEFF STEWART
stew...@mindspring.com
July 1, 1996
Jamal Bernhard
> > > To: True football fans everywhere
> > > From: The 49er-Haters Society
> > > Re: Greetings!
> > >
> > > Just wanted to take a moment during the off-season to tell you
> > > about the 49er-Haters Society (NHS). We're a group of fans of
> > > many different NFL teams that share the common bond of disliking
> > > the most overrated sports franchise in history-- the S.F. 49ers!
> > >
> > > We have a web site chock full of stats and go inside the numbers
> > > to put the recent 49er success into perspective. We take on
> > > previously taboo subjects such as: why the 49ers are NOT the best
> > > team in football; why the 49ers are NOT the "classiest" team in
> > > the NFL; and why the media loves to suck up to them. Our page is
> > > not about profane or slanderous insults, but instead it is
> > > thoughtful and logical arguments against which no 49er fan stands
> > > a chance. We've done such a job that one 49er fan got so
> > > frustrated he invented a web page devoted to hating us!
> > >
> > > You, too, may have encountered unbearable 49er fans and/or been
> > > frustrated at the spin a 49er story gets in the media. Even if
> > > you don't share the understanding of the "49er problem," the page
> > > is still worth your time because of all of the stats and articles
> > > you don't get to see in your newspaper, and it is a place for
> > > real, intelligent football discussion.
I think it's sad that anyone could dedicate so much time to hating one
team rather than routing for their own team. You must be a truly unhappy
individual.
--
jber...@crmse.sdsu.edu
http://sdcc3.ucsd.edu/~jamal/
Be kind to the world and the people who live there . . .
Val Salva
I am sick and tired of all these people spreading Spam all over the
place. If I wanna buy something, I can go to the mall.
If I want to hate another team, I don't need the help of these needle
Dicked nincompoops to egg me on. On the other hand, My spam, I know is
a welcome addition to the USENET. I appreciate all the support I have
been recieving. And keep those stupid mail bombs coming. Netcom is
pretty slow, however it does allow one to delete all mail in ones mail
box with a simple highlight and delete.
Bernie bites it !
Milt Shook
Not only that, but how could anyone hate them more than the f***ing Cowboys!
Airfoils
dra...@henge.com wrote:
>The only thing that your missing is the fact that they have won more
>Super Bowls than any other franchise (excluding the big D). What else
>do you need, unless your a Dallas fan. (By the way, SF did it first).
No man Pittsburgh did it first! No WAIT! Dallas did it first! NO WAIT!
Green Bay did it first! No WAIT!........
You're an idiot
Ken Buzzard
In article <4r8le0$b...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
big...@ix.netcom.com(Val Salva) wrote:
>You were also a doofus before the doctor ever slapped your ass. You got
>off to a great start in life and while flipping hamburgers have
>continued right along with what was originally set in motion.
Let me guess....is this cunning linguist from Cleveland?
Kenneth E. Buzzard dele...@dnaco.net
Delex Systems, Inc. 513-259-0231
Dayton, OH USA 'Futurum Venia Ultio Mea'
Andrew Apold
Andrew turned away from his Dark Circle dart board when he heard someone using Val Salva's account say:
>
>>Thank you oh, so much, for crossposting this to every football group.
>>
>>Since I am reading this in the Minnesota Vikings group, I will add
>>that Brian Sipe was our favorite 4th quarter Cleveland QB, as it was
>>he that kept tossing the INT's that got us back into the miracle
>>1980 game that Tommy Kramer won in the final second hail mary pass
>>to Amhad Rashad. Got us the NFC Central title that year (I apologise
>>since due to your follow ups this is going to the Detroit group, a
>>perhaps painful memory of the Lions collapse that year, losing close
>>games to a punt return TD in the final minutes and a kickoff return
>>TD in OT to Chicago)
>You were also a doofus before the doctor ever slapped your ass. You got
>off to a great start in life and while flipping hamburgers have
>continued right along with what was originally set in motion.
>
>As far as Kosar goes: He played along side more pro bowlers that any
SNIP
>Kosar Stinks. He always stunk. He always will !
Now that I know where you are sending this stuff from, I will post back
(and set followups to there) so it doesn't waste bandwidth....
Wehehehell.... What is your problem with this?
I didn't praise Kosar, I didn't even mention his name. All I said was
I wish you wouldn't crosspost, and that Brian Sipe had a bad game in
the only game I remember watching him play in. sheez.
If you must know I'm a programmer for a local government, thank you.
vanc...@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
In article <4rbcr6$e4c...@uhura-12.dnaco.net>, dele...@dnaco.net (Ken Buzzard) writes:
> In article <4r8le0$b...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
> big...@ix.netcom.com(Val Salva) wrote:
>
>>off to a great start in life and while flipping hamburgers have
>>continued right along with what was originally set in motion.
>
"bighits" is a Baltimorom who is pretending to be a Browns
fan. Ignore this doofus. bighit's comments are nothing other
than kissing Modell's ass.
-Garrett
Val Salva
Has anyone checked out the Web Page called FYouModell?
What an idiot this guy is. Talk about a complete waste of time. The
only good part of it is where the author of the page complains that
every time he dressed up like a woman in garter belts, the Cleveland
Stadium security threw him out. That I found to be funny.
I did not want to download the pictures if it however. It wasn't that
funny.
Dave Hoffman. please come back, REASON WITH US PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!
Val Salva
In <1996Jul3.102123.9558@ohstpy> vanc...@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
writes:
I would not kiss Modells doopa. Well maybe if he made me president of
the NFL cheerleaders association.But he would have to wash, powder and
perfume that smelly doopa of his before we could even negotiate. But
that discussion is for another time.
First off, this Baltimoron term is asinine. If you can honestly expect
a town to be mad because they are excited about having a new team, one
of the most influential NFL owners, and a new stadium, you have to be a
real nincompoop.
Secondly to put a moniker on every person living in Baltimore, is also
to admit you're an ass.
Thirdly, I am INDEED a Browns Fan. But unlike you my spineless wonder,
I am one of those TRUE tough growling fans, that the NFL announcers
always like to talk about. I am the consumate description of what you
think a Browns fan should be. That being the case, I am not a quitter,
and I will not blame my woes on these "eveil vultures of Baltimore".
nor will I ignore the truth and pass the Buck to Art Modell.
So here is the truth OH Dawg Pound Dork! The stage was set for the much
heralded "tough" Browns fans to take on the NFL in court. The city of
Cleveland could have blackened the eye of the NFL with the hold world
watching. But alas, Modell issued one little bluff, "make me stay and I
will give you a crappy team", and the city of Cleveland folded. Like
the team of 95 was sooooo very spectacular anyway.
One little bluff, and this tough tenacious blue collar city folded and
started grabbing it's ankles. No fight ! No courage! No Honor !
The NFL never had any intention of leaving Cleveland without football.
Cleveland always talked the talk about being a great NFL city. But when
push came to shove, Cleveland was too afraid of an impotent bluff to
fight for what they loved.
Mayor Whites hands were so dirty in the handling of the Browns that he
had to bend over, grab his ankles and say "should I get my wife in here
too" ? And the People of Cleveland lined right up with him.
It is you who are not a Browns fan pal. Fans like you have no grit, no
spine, and no clue. It is your idiotic politicians who lost the Browns.
Not anyone else.
When Mayor White presented his multimillion dollar proposal to a
security guard in Berea, while simultaneously Art was accepting his new
deal, the truth about Mayor White was clear.
White got trated like crap because he was crap. Unprepared, cocky, and
stupid. Art telling White to hold off on stadium talks, was no
different from you and I telling a pesky telephone solicitor to call
back in 6 months. White was a dud. He didn't earn Modells respect. He
wasn't on top of the situation. His scrambling around like a chicken
with no head in the wee hours of the deal, are testament to this.
When you add into this mix that Governor Voinavich was an ex Cleveland
mayor who also knew Modell, the black cloud clearly hovers around the
head of Clevelands ridiculous politicians.
So now, Mayor White is going to take the dead body, give it a new coat
of Brown and Orange paint, put a robot inside and then fidget with the
radio remote control, and hope that we applaude him for his efforts.
Sorry Pal, not me. I am a Browns fan! YOu are a nincompoop who believes
whatever you are told. White is trying to save his ass. So is
Voinavich. So is the Cleveland media who helped to create Modell hate
all these years. And you think that you are going to get the truth in
the Cleveland media huh? OK, Walter Mitty. Stick your head in the sand.
Under strong leadership, The NFL would have been forced into court. Not
wanting a black eye, humiliation and time away from thier yachts, the
NFL powers to be would have come up with a much better deal. Art Modell
and expansion for Baltimore, a new owner for the Browns.
Just a little Balls from Cleveland and everybody would have been happy.
No balls ! None whatsoever. The Growl was never anything more than a
grossly amplified whimper.
John Lansford
big...@ix.netcom.com(Val Salva) wrote:
>By my final count, Kosar while not lousy like I have been agitating
>about, was also not a great QB. to me, I would say 7 on a scale of 1
>-10. Sipe at 7.5 .
First you spend endless post-time here proclaiming Kosar as the most
idiotic QB the Browns ever had, and now you give him a 7 rating. Tell
me, is that a 7 on a scale of 7 to 10 or what? You sure put all your
superb QB's in a really small area on your scale if it's 0-10 and
Kosar (the same QB who you said couldn't carry Sipe's jockstrap) got a
7, while Sipe got a 7.5.
Maybe you need a course in math or something.
John Lansford
Peter Sibley
Kosar is no better than the Browns' fifth-best quarterback ever.
1. Otto Graham (1,464 completions out of 2,626 attempts, 174 TDs, 23,584
yards, Hall of Famer and world champion, best yards-per-attempt average
of any QB with more than 1,700 attempts.)
2. Brian Sipe (1,944 of 3,439, 154 TDs, 23,317 yards, holder of more
meaningful club passing records than any other Browns QB.)
3. Frank Ryan (whose TD production (149) far exceeded Kosar's in far
fewer starts AND attempts)
4. Milt Plum (1,306 of 2,419, 122 TDs, 17,536 yards)
5. Bernie Kosar (in 8 1/2 seasons, won a total of three playoff games,
with an overall record of 51-50-1 as a starter)
This is not a slam at Bernie. He is in select company. His toughness and
smarts were exemplary. He has the lowest attempts/interception ratio in
NFL history. He bleeds brown and orange, and would succeed in whatever
endeavor he chooses.
Go Browns,
Peter Sibley
psi...@azstarnet.com
Paul Rinzler
Peter Sibley wrote:
[a bunch of impresive statistics comparing past Brown quarterbacks
with Bernie Kosar - his post is at the end of this message]
But. . . but. . . sputter . . .
Your post started out great - finally, someone provides an
objective basis for considering Kosar's place as a Browns
quaterback (although, because Kosar does bleed brown and
orange, it actually doesn't matter, but anyway. . . .).
But then, you don't give the statistics for Kosar that you
gave for Otto, Sipe, Ryan, and Plum! You set it up so all
we can do is compare browns and oranges (i.e., apples and
oranges, get it? ?) after you tantalizingly offered the
hope of an actual objective comparison.
Please post Kosar (and Ryan's while you're at it) completions
and attempts and TDs like you did for the other quarterbacks
so we can *really* compare how Kosar did with the rest of
them - wasn't that the point (and the hope) of your post?
Thanks,
Paul Rinzler
RMisra
In article <4re60d$m...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
big...@ix.netcom.com(Val Salva) writes:
>Thirdly, I am INDEED a Browns Fan. But unlike you my spineless
>wonder, I am one of those TRUE tough growling fans, that the NFL
>announcers always like to talk about. I am the consumate
>description of what you think a Browns fan should be. That being
>the case, I am not a quitter, and I will not blame my woes on these
>"eveil vultures of Baltimore". nor will I ignore the truth and pass
>the Buck to Art Modell.
YOU AIN'T NO BROWNS FAN, MORON. THEY AIN'T NO
FANS OF THE 4 TIME SUPER BOWL CHAMPION
PITTSBURGH STEELERS, BUT THEY'RE SMARTER THAN
THAT. THE MORE YOU TALK, THE MORE YOU HUMILIATE
YOURSELF ON A NATIONAL LEVEL.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE FUNNY AT FIRST, BUT I
CHANGED MY MIND. YOU ARE A JOKE, AND AN
EMBARRASSMENT TO THE GOLFING PROFESSION.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BROKEN RECORD
AND SALVA. NOTHING!! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I WON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT THE 4 TIME SUPER BOWL
CHAMPION PITTSBURGH STEELERS. OR THE CLEVELAND
BROWNS. YOU ARE MORE FUN TO HUMILIATE.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!