Ravens say Pats win a conspiracy
Darren
Don't blame refs, but Ravens' claims deserve attention
Baltimore Sun
There might be a legitimate gripe to be made against the Patriots and
the NFL this morning, but it's not the one that's echoing all over
Baltimore, from the office water cooler to your friendly sports talk
radio station.
The woe-is-me chorus in last night's postgame locker room and today's
post-Patriots' Baltimore is an unfortunate one. Blaming the officiating
for 27-24 nail-biter loss -- especially one in which many of your
players acted like their employer might need to install an obedience
school near the training room -- has the very strong aroma of sour
grapes.
This Ravens' team talks so much, you'd think at some point one of them
would've come across the words "accountability" or "discipline." More on
that in the second.
I do want to see the referees' actions reviewed last night, but not
because they suddenly became flag-happy in the final minutes, when it
might conveniently help the Patriots maintain their perfect record.
Caught by television cameras in the Ravens' locker room and replayed
this morning on ESPN, chief among the raging Ravens complaints was an
assertion that one official -- head linesman Phil McKinnely --
repeatedly called Ravens cornerback Samari Rolle the word "boy."
At least five times, Rolle says.
"I simply asked him, 'Man, have you played before? You know what's at
stake here?' He called me a boy," Rolle said this morning on ESPN First
Take. "He was like, "Man, shut up, boy. Go back to playing.'"
"He knows he's a ref," Rolle said. "You can't do anything to him. It's
mind-blowing, though, that a ref would talk to a player like that."
In an e-mail this morning, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said, "We are
looking into it."
Before becoming an NFL official, McKinnely was an offensive lineman from
1976-82 with the Atlanta Falcons, Los Angeles Rams and Chicago Bears. He
began his NFL officiating career in 2002.
McKinnely is black, but an offensive term is an offensive term. And
clearly, Rolle was offended.
Rolle said the ref's language was the reason Bart Scott exploded like
Mt. Ravenus late in the game, amazingly accounting for 30 penalty yards
for his actions, which included the bullet pass of an official's yellow
flag.
"We got the ref in one of our players' faces and call him a 'boy,'"
Scott said. "What's that all about?"
I would never justify Scott's behavior, but if what the Ravens contend
has a hint of truth, at the least, I understand his behavior. There's no
place for such racially-charged language.
"Trust me, if the tables were turned, the NFL would definitely be
contacting one of us," Rolle told ESPN this morning.
As for the final results, don't count me among the conspiracy theorists.
I don't think the NFL conspires to make sure the Ravens lose any more
than I think officials get together to make sure the Patriots -- who are
known cheaters, by the way -- run the table this season. So I can live
with a ticky-tack holding penalty by Jamaine Winborne late in the game.
That call came on fourth down, gave the Patriots an automatic first and
set up the game-winning touchdown one play later.
And I can live with officials allowing that game-winning touchdown -- an
8-yard strike from Tom Brady to Jabar Gaffney with just 44 seconds left
in the game -- to stand, even though the replay most of us saw showed
that Gaffney may not have completely had possession of the ball before
going out of bounds. Then again, he may have. It was that close.
But the NFL undoubtedly needs to investigate the claims of Rolle and
Scott. It's a charge that should be easy to prove because the football
field was filled with witnesses. When it comes to using such a word, if
anyone on either team heard it tossed around, they'll provide locker
room testimony.
And any official who crossed that verbal line deserves a suspension and
fine equal to whatever Scott faces and whatever any other Ravens player
faces for their postgame remarks.
"You should have heard some of the verbal blasting we were taking from
the refs," said receiver Derrick Mason. "I mean, it was despicable."
As for the game itself, it's difficult to feel much sympathy for the
Ravens today. If they were truly robbed, you have to at least concede
that they opened the vault doors and drew a yellow line leading the
thieving Pats to the loot.
You don't give a team like the Patriots and a quarterback like Brady as
many chances as the Ravens did last night. You don't make so many silly
penalties and you don't call senseless timeouts.
D n BullDurham
Chaos_Not@Home
cultural and within his era?
I'm not black, so I certainly can't say - just a question.
As for what D. Mason was talking about - earlier this year Whitworth
said he had a ref telling him how lousy he was, etc. STFU Ref, do
your job.
T.J. Higgins
>The use of "boy" from an older black man - is that racist? Or is that
>cultural and within his era?
I'm guessing Rolle and his black friends call each other
"nigga" all the time. If so, then Rolle claiming to be
offended by "boy" is the height of hypocrisy.
From Alabama,
--
TJH
Chaos_Not@Home
wrote:
> In article <5d567e14-4e51-4eab-b1aa-113d55861...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Chaos_Not@Home wrote:
> >The use of "boy" from an older black man - is that racist? Or is that
> >cultural and within his era?
>
> I'm guessing Rolle and his black friends call each other
> "nigga" all the time. If so, then Rolle claiming to be
> offended by "boy" is the height of hypocrisy.
>
turk
news:13ldi6h...@corp.supernews.com...
> In article
> <5d567e14-4e51-4eab...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Chaos_Not@Home wrote:
>>The use of "boy" from an older black man - is that racist? Or is that
>>cultural and within his era?
>
> I'm guessing Rolle and his black friends call each other
> "nigga" all the time. If so, then Rolle claiming to be
> offended by "boy" is the height of hypocrisy.
Whether they do or not is irrelevant, and certainly not hypocritical. What
he does in his circle of friends has nothing to do with this. I'm sure you
wouldn't want your boss referring to you by any of the good natured insults
you use amongst your friends, and you shouldn't be expected to put up with
that. A referee in a position of authority calling a grown man "boy" in the
context claimed while he is on his job is disrespectful, not to mention
unprofessional. It crosses the line. I wouldn't call it particularly
egregious, but I can guarantee that if one of my bosses at work referred to
me as "boy", they'd at least get an earful back, if not a grievance for
hostile work environment pending an apology. Of course, this is all
predicated on the charges being true. But if it's made up, you'd think
Rolle would have come up with something harsher than "boy".
turk
--
It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for
the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.
-- Thomas Paine
RăvNsfăn Ž
Ravens say Pats win a conspiracy
Unlike most others I've read (this thread) you are correctly viewing and
targeting the alleged incident(s) for the serious ramifications that can
arise from a biased or pissed referee participating in such antics and
continuing to call a game. Don't know about anyone else but I don't want a
referee with an obvious attitude against my team's players, my team's
coach... etc, refereeing any of our games. No better way to screw a player
than flagging his team whenever possible... within the rules they chose to
enforce. And with the discretion that the league keeps granting them their
is no limit to the damage a referee can cause to any team.
As far as Rolle making up the accusation... when a referee and a player go
nose to nose those parabolic listening devices that the media and NFL Films
utilize on the sidelines are going to be pointed in that direction to pick
up every bit of those altercations.
Sorry to have sent this first to your email addy Turk... I hit the wrong
response/send button.
Drew
--
RävNsfän ®
"Talk is cheap..., lets go play"
(Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts)
Varl
> The use of "boy" from an older black man - is that racist? Or is that
> cultural and within his era?
>
> I'm not black, so I certainly can't say - just a question.
This is a whole lot of nothing imo because it was said by another
black man. Now if it had been said by a white ref, he'd be
eviscerated, given death threats, and worse. What he said wasn't
right, but the double standards in society today suck.
--
If you hear someone badmouthing AD&D's THAC0 for how
counterintuitive it is, ask them if they have ever checked the
leader board in golf.
Trials of Ascension- An MMOG made by gamers for gamers.
http://www.shadowpool.com
turk
news:4757550d$0$2745$b426...@news.qis.net...
I agree, but I'm not convinced there was an intentional bias. No offense,
but the Raven defense is known for talking. I don't think you can deny
that. Whether that influenced this incident or not, I can't say. But the
Refs are still expected to be the professionals and to put aside personal
biases. That said, it still does not excuse a referee from making the
comments he supposedly did. As I mentioned, that does cross the line, and
the effect may be that Rolle may have been "too careful" at times given what
he perceived to be some unfair attention from the referees. And given the
strict new rules placed on d-backs to promote offense, as well as the
tightness of the game, anyone who views that as nonconsequential is just
fooling themselves.
> As far as Rolle making up the accusation... when a referee and a player
> go
> nose to nose those parabolic listening devices that the media and NFL
> Films
> utilize on the sidelines are going to be pointed in that direction to pick
> up every bit of those altercations.
A DB and a ref? Not sure that's captured, at least on audio. But I'm sure
if it did happen, it was caught on video and plenty of people can read lips.
Hopefully, that will be enough to get to the bottom of this and prevent any
lying.
> Sorry to have sent this first to your email addy Turk... I hit the wrong
> response/send button.
Nah, no worries. It's a fake e-mail.
And as for my opinion on the game, if you care, I can't say for sure that
any of those calls against the Ravens were egregiously bad, but I can say
that it is starting to seem suspicious that all these "borderline" calls
that all seem to favor the Pats over the last couple weeks do seem to light
some alarm bells. The only call I really question is that "defensive
holding". Was their contact; yes, a little. But it being called in that
situation (4th down, game on the line, undefeated season in jeopardy) is a
bit, well, odd...especially given the way every single questionable "maybe"
call favors the Pats in critical situations over the last few weeks. It's
getting to be a bit much.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this is getting weird...
Sarge
flagrant. AND you nor anyone else can touch them and it will always be
covered up or slid under the rug.
turk
news:fJSdnWzvK6LA5Mra...@seanet.com...
> Chaos_Not@Home wrote:
>> The use of "boy" from an older black man - is that racist? Or is that
>> cultural and within his era?
>>
>> I'm not black, so I certainly can't say - just a question.
>
> This is a whole lot of nothing imo because it was said by another black
> man. Now if it had been said by a white ref, he'd be eviscerated, given
> death threats, and worse. What he said wasn't right, but the double
> standards in society today suck.
First of all: Bullshit. Second of all, next time you get called a "honkie"
by a black man, make a big deal out of it. Call the media. Make a
statement. Of course, it won't happen. The number of white men who have
been called "honkies" by black men you could probably count on one hand.
And even if they do, it's so rare, the white man is liable not to even
entertain the thought of being offended. On the other hand, the word
"nigger", which you are obviously grazing around without having the balls to
say the actual word, has it's routes in slavery. You cannot possibly
realize how offensive that word is when coming from a white man directed at
a black man. And neither can I. It's in a whole other league. So, stop
trying to compare the two, you ignorant fuck.
Let's see how the league deals with this and then react.
turk
news:fj7ujj$m7t$1...@news.datemas.de...
> NFL refs have been crooked for a very long time. These days it's just
> flagrant. AND you nor anyone else can touch them and it will always be
> covered up or slid under the rug.
Well there was that Bengal game earlier this year where their opponent
(forget the game) scored on the last play of the game with no time, and they
let them go for two. It broke the spread. That was seriously odd. Usually
a game ends on the last play if an extra point/2 point has no bearing on the
win or loss. That made me seriously consider if higher forces were at work.
Varl
> First of all: Bullshit. Second of all, next time you get called a "honkie"
> by a black man, make a big deal out of it. Call the media. Make a
> statement. Of course, it won't happen. The number of white men who have
> been called "honkies" by black men you could probably count on one hand.
> And even if they do, it's so rare, the white man is liable not to even
> entertain the thought of being offended. On the other hand, the word
> "nigger", which you are obviously grazing around without having the balls to
> say the actual word, has it's routes in slavery.
Go fuck yourself. I now way was I ever "grazing" for anything. If I
want to say nigger, I'll say it.
You cannot possibly
> realize how offensive that word is when coming from a white man directed at
> a black man. And neither can I. It's in a whole other league. So, stop
> trying to compare the two, you ignorant fuck.
Wow, turk. 4-8 is having an even worse effect on you than I thought.
You've lost it.
turk
> turk wrote:
>
>> First of all: Bullshit. Second of all, next time you get called a
>> "honkie" by a black man, make a big deal out of it. Call the media.
>> Make a statement. Of course, it won't happen. The number of white men
>> who have been called "honkies" by black men you could probably count on
>> one hand. And even if they do, it's so rare, the white man is liable not
>> to even entertain the thought of being offended. On the other hand, the
>> word "nigger", which you are obviously grazing around without having the
>> balls to say the actual word, has it's routes in slavery.
>
> Go fuck yourself. I now way was I ever "grazing" for anything. If I want
> to say nigger, I'll say it.
>
> You cannot possibly
>> realize how offensive that word is when coming from a white man directed
>> at a black man. And neither can I. It's in a whole other league. So,
>> stop
>> trying to compare the two, you ignorant fuck.
>
> Wow, turk. 4-8 is having an even worse effect on you than I thought.
> You've lost it.
This isn't about my team. And, in fact, it shouldn't even be a racial
issue. But as usual, someone has to go and start the whole "oh, if it were
a white man..." bullshit. You racists just never let an opportunity go by,
do you?
RăvNsfăn Ž
news:0oidnWSByejb4Mra...@comcast.com...
Well yes I certainly DO care for other opinions turk, ...your's included,
...or I wouldn't bother visiting other newsgroups. I apologize if I somehow
made you, ...or anyone doubt that - in that you would feel the necessity to
even ask.
Oddly and quietly enough the Ravens-Pats game set a record for cable viewing
audience ratings. As important as that is to the NFL I haven't heard a peep
from them about that and only became aware of it on a local B'more station
today. It is more obvious to me after that factoid that it is truly in the
financial interest of the NFL (and it's revenue sharing owners), that the
Patriots continue their undefeated bid (perhaps aided if necessary) for as
long as they can milk it this season.
Drew
--
RävNsfän Ž
"Talk is cheap..., lets go play"
(Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts)
> The only call I really question is that "defensive holding". Was their
John
> "turk" <tur...@noway.nohow> wrote in message
>
> news:0oidnWSByejb4Mra...@comcast.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >news:4757550d$0$2745$b426...@news.qis.net...
> >> "turk" <tur...@noway.nohow>
> >> Ravens say Pats win a conspiracy
>
> >>>news:13ldi6h...@corp.supernews.com...
> >>>> In article
> >>>> <5d567e14-4e51-4eab-b1aa-113d55861...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
It just makes this weeks game all the more suspenseful. Wanna bet the
Pats lose this week to the Steelers--one of the 70's dynasty's beating
the 00's dynasty? That will set up a showdown in the playoffs to
drive ratings through the roof. Could they script it this well?
Sounds like a Hollywood production.
John
>
> "Talk is cheap..., lets go play"
> (Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts)
>
>
>
> > The only call I really question is that "defensive holding". Was their
> > contact; yes, a little. But it being called in that situation (4th down,
> > game on the line, undefeated season in jeopardy) is a bit, well,
> > odd...especially given the way every single questionable "maybe" call
> > favors the Pats in critical situations over the last few weeks. It's
> > getting to be a bit much.
>
> > I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this is getting weird...
>
> > turk
> > --
> > It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for
> > the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.
> > -- Thomas Paine- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
RăvNsfăn Ž
news:952e9e99-711c-4938...@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 6, 6:58 pm, "RăvNsfăn (R)" <dustylomba...@ravens2000.org> wrote:
> "turk" <tur...@noway.nohow> wrote in message
>
> news:0oidnWSByejb4Mra...@comcast.com...
>
>
>
>
>
John
An excellent point John. Consider how interesting the comming weeks would
have been had the lowly 4-7 Ravens defeated the Patriots? What you so
brilliantly have observed and stated would not even be a consideration.
Additionally with the Patriots winning Monday Night to a ravenous (had to do
that) Ravens team the Ravens vs Colts game this Sunday night will likely
draw more viewers as well. The NFL wins all the way around.
BTW: I DO have that feeling that the Pats are going down this week.
Drew
--
RävNsfän Ž
Chaos_Not@Home
> BTW: I DO have that feeling that the Pats are going down this week.
>
going downfield for the score