Nice Going, Lakers...
Sports Fan
Still leaving people wide open for 3 Point shots.
And really don't understand that benching of Kobe, that early.
Terraholm
Phil left him and Gasol I think in early in the 4th when he usually
rests. I think he hoped that Kobe could close the gap against the suns
bench in a hurry.
Then he rested him and the game was past saving so he did not go back in.
$Bill
Lakers don't play quick, athletic teams well and esp. when they
can shoot the 3 and run a PNR like PHO. The Laker D intelligence
just seems very high schoolish to me - who the hell is coaching
these guys ?
Alson Wong
>
> Phil left him and Gasol I think in early in the 4th when he usually
> rests. I think he hoped that Kobe could close the gap against the suns
> bench in a hurry.
> Then he rested him and the game was past saving so he did not go back
> in.
Also, they are playing at Golden State tomorrow night.
Blazer Fan Dan
at least you guys were on the road...and not playing a team with 7
wins, at your home and playing like a bunch of freaking imbeciles.
Terraholm
On two days rest, Philly wins at the RG like the lakers lose there...mut
be the red unis...
Terraholm
Denver lost at Sac.
Sports Fan
"Alson Wong" <ra...@yahoo.com._b_l_o_c_k_> wrote:
It is Golden State @ Lakers, or at least that is what their schedule
shows.
Blazer Fan Dan
that makes it even more pathetic.
But at least denver was on the road.
VicXnews
@mid.individual.net:
c's lost at Golden State...
VicXnews
news:cj6jj59hk27govmeg...@4ax.com:
they won't need to fly tonight...Ronnie can just carry them =8-)
Alson Wong
>
> It is Golden State @ Lakers, or at least that is what their schedule
> shows.
Yes, you're right.
RzR
"VicXnews" <ne...@news.com> wrote in message
news:hhc6is$jkf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
quick...who are the coaches?
Silk_Wilkes
>
> c's lost at Golden State...
That's 12 losses in their last 13 trips to Oakland, 6 in a row
including tonight.
RMJon23
You called it a few weeks ago, really. Too lazy to find the thread,
but you doubted the Lakers cd win in PHO w/the way they were defending
the 3, IIRC.
paul...@yahoo.com
> Still leaving people wide open for 3 Point shots.
The disturbing part was phoenix leading points in the paint at the
half.
Lakers aren't attacking the basket like they did the first couple
weeks of the season.
Too much standing around...
Lakers are now .500 against teams with winning records...
Sports Fan
<da7aa091-c808-4845...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
RMJon23 <rmj...@aol.com> wrote:
Thanks dude, I remember that.
Added to the fact that it was also me being me, the never optimistic
person, I never liked the way the Lakers defending the perimeter this
season.
Gary Collard
They've been defending the 3 better than anybody else in the league all
year, fwiw.
--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard at yahoo dot com
http://twitter.com/LakerGMC
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/
"You can't even dignify this squalid racket as bribery: If I try
to buy a cop, I have to use my own money. But, when Harry Reid
buys a senator, he uses my money, too." -- Mark Steyn
Sports Fan
Gary Collard <garyc...@netscape.net> wrote:
>RMJon23 wrote:
>> On Dec 28, 8:24?pm, Sports Fan <spor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> No defense, no energy, no assists, no ball moving.
>>> Still leaving people wide open for 3 Point shots.
>>>
>>> And really don't understand that benching of Kobe, that early.
>>
>> You called it a few weeks ago, really. Too lazy to find the thread,
>> but you doubted the Lakers cd win in PHO w/the way they were defending
>> the 3, IIRC.
>
>They've been defending the 3 better than anybody else in the league all
>year, fwiw.
Once again, this is one of the misleading statistics.
One of the reasons they are losing those games or other teams getting
close is them leaving 3 point shooters wide open and getting burned.
Player 3PT FG Season Career
Nash 3-6 47.0 43.2
Dudley 3-4 37.5 41.7
Do you see the difference here?
Also the reason that you are unable to understand this is that you are
probably missing the fact that the Lakers are allowing 3PT FG attempts,
which means that they are not defending the 3PT shots better than
others.
They are allowing 18.6 3PT FG attempts per game, ranking 10 from the
bottom, while San Antonio allows only 14.3 3PT FG attempts and Chicago
allowed 21.5 3PT FG attempts.
If you have problems adding up all the above, let me know.
VicXnews
do you have the numbers on layups and dunks to compare and contrast?
Sports Fan
VicXnews <ne...@news.com> wrote:
Not at this point, but I am sure that 82games might compile something
like that.
VicXnews
> In article <hhe126$4cu$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
> VicXnews <ne...@news.com> wrote:
>
>>Sports Fan <spo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:1k0lj51mt2hr7rhtd...@4ax.com:
>>
>>
>>> If you have problems adding up all the above, let me know.
>>>
>>
>>do you have the numbers on layups and dunks to compare and contrast?
>
> Not at this point, but I am sure that 82games might compile something
> like that.
>
hard to tell how well you defend the 3 just by the number of attempts
allowed... without total shots allowed/taken at least
Sports Fan
VicXnews <ne...@news.com> wrote:
>Sports Fan <spo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:3aslj55963cn00nou...@4ax.com:
>
>> In article <hhe126$4cu$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
>> VicXnews <ne...@news.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Sports Fan <spo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>news:1k0lj51mt2hr7rhtd...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you have problems adding up all the above, let me know.
>>>>
>>>
>>>do you have the numbers on layups and dunks to compare and contrast?
>>
>> Not at this point, but I am sure that 82games might compile something
>> like that.
>>
>
>hard to tell how well you defend the 3 just by the number of attempts
>allowed... without total shots allowed/taken at least
Now I am confused here.
What has layups and dunks got to do with 3PT shot defense?
As for the numbers, they speak for themselves.
Opposing team 3PT statistics for the Lakers
3PT Made 3PT Attempted 3PT PCT
5.7 18.6 30.5
3PT Made 7th best
3PT Attempted 10th worst
PT PCT 1st, or best
As you see, they are not the real best there.
The point was, the Lakers are not defending the 3PT that well.
Gary claimed that they are the best based on the opponent 3PT FG %,
which I countered that this is misleading since they are among the last
third in the NBA allowing teams to take 3PT shots.
Teams are missing them, does not mean that the Lakers are defending them
better, as seen with several teams when they beat the Lakers or kept
games closer.
When opposing teams are missing wide open shots, which means that:
1. The Laker are leaving them wide open.
2. Lakers defense had nothing to do with the miss.
The above makes a case against the opponent 3PT FG % which I still
think is misleading.
This has came back to bite them in the backside when teams make those
open shots.
Terraholm
May not totally follow. They play percentages on D from scouting and
stat gurus and leave the right people open.
> The above makes a case against the opponent 3PT FG % which I still
> think is misleading.
>
> This has came back to bite them in the backside when teams make those
> open shots.
Better than going out on them and leaving a higher % shot open?
VicXnews
I don't see how the stat of allowing more 3 attempts makes you worse at
defending them...would you rather allow them to waltz to the basket? don't
you want the other team taking more 3's? they are jumpshots after all =8-/
VicXnews
@mid.individual.net:
my thoughts exactly....I don't get the value of that 3 point attempts
allowed stat...
Terraholm
If they re playing those percentages and leaving some open on some
nights it can backfire.
But by guarding the ones where it by percentage does not pay to
encourage that shot, or by preventing that pass to those players even if
it does not appear as being out on them...it does show up in that
percentage.
Sometimes stats are just weird. Last year by far the best free throw %
of opponents was against Portland. I figured they must foul all the
wrong people but a stat guru (who works for another team) said he ran it
and they fouled the right people who promptly turned into great FT
shooters.
My only other guess is the pace has something to do with it, that
Portland does not tire them out. Does not prevent themselves from
missing FTs from being tired at times, so I doubt that works either and
the "Just weird" thingy idea works best...
Sports Fan
VicXnews <ne...@news.com> wrote:
How can I explain this more?
That means that you are not closing in on shooters.
>would you rather allow them to waltz to the basket? don't
>you want the other team taking more 3's? they are jumpshots after all =8-/
Yeah, but when you have teams and shooters that live by the 3Point shot,
that is not a smart thing to do, and the statistics showed it well.
Sports Fan
Terraholm <terrahol...@gmail.com> wrote:
Huh?
So Steve Nash, Dudley, Jr Smith, ...etc are the right people to leave
open?
Give me a break.
You are talking about people who basically are weak shooters, something
like Beidrens, Ben Wallace, ...etc, and those will NOT take a 3 Point
shot.
>
>> The above makes a case against the opponent 3PT FG % which I still
>> think is misleading.
>>
>> This has came back to bite them in the backside when teams make those
>> open shots.
>
>Better than going out on them and leaving a higher % shot open?
>
No, it is called team defense.
VicXnews
>>I don't see how the stat of allowing more 3 attempts makes you worse at
>>defending them...
>
> How can I explain this more?
> That means that you are not closing in on shooters.
>
it could also mean they're giving up more layups and there is no need to
shoot 3s...
>>would you rather allow them to waltz to the basket? don't
>>you want the other team taking more 3's? they are jumpshots after all =8-/
>
> Yeah, but when you have teams and shooters that live by the 3Point shot,
> that is not a smart thing to do, and the statistics showed it well.
>
>
winning % is all that counts...jumpshots have a way of driving that
down..just my opinion
Sports Fan
VicXnews <ne...@news.com> wrote:
I don't disagree on this at all.
>jumpshots have a way of driving that down..just my opinion
OK, I am not saying that you can win championships by shooting 3s, but
it hurts sometimes.
I think everyone is still feeling the sting from that 3point shot from
Tim Thomas, and the melt down afterwards.
VicXnews
ok...now we are on the same page...you can win a game,have a good
record,advance in the playoffs with jumpshots but sooner or later it will
leave you out of defensive postion,hurt your rebounding,etc and you can't
win a championship like that
When it comes to those 3s at the end of games I agree we stink at covering
them most of the time(none so far this year =8-)~)...
Terraholm
> In article <7q0gf0...@mid.individual.net>
>>> When opposing teams are missing wide open shots, which means that:
>>> 1. The Laker are leaving them wide open.
>>> 2. Lakers defense had nothing to do with the miss.
>> May not totally follow. They play percentages on D from scouting and
>> stat gurus and leave the right people open.
>
> Huh?
> So Steve Nash, Dudley, Jr Smith, ...etc are the right people to leave
> open?
No.
I mean overall for the season producing the team's opponent percentage.
Silk_Wilkes
> In article <hhgekq$33...@news.eternal-september.org>
>
>
>
> VicXnews <n...@news.com> wrote:
> >Sports Fan <spor...@gmail.com> wrote in
Kwame did fly out at Thomas, forced him to double pump or re-cock.
Not getting a rebound after the initial Nash miss should sting more.
Defensive rebounding is the usual cause of misery for this franchise.
Sports Fan
<0f995a5f-3068-41f5...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Silk_Wilkes <infiniti_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
This supports the theory.
Why would he be left open, knowing that he is one dimensional 3 point
shooter on a team like Phoenix who lived and still does at the 3 point
line to have the wrong guy Kwame Brown to run at him?
He was wide open before that, Shawn Marion threw the ball right at him
after Lamar missed the defensive rebound.
>Defensive rebounding is the usual cause of misery for this franchise.
That too.
Silk_Wilkes
It's tough to defend after giving up an offensive rebound though.
That's when things get a bit chaotic, and you give up higher% shots.
The attention goes towards where the ball is, and then you lose sight
of your man. Even on the initial defense, it can be tough to stick on
your man. Look at how Boston lost the other night to the Clips. Ray
Allen left his man (Butler) in the corner for the tying three.
Similar to how it's our nature to protect our young from danger,
somehow basketball players would rather defend the basket than a guy
standing far away from it.
Gary Collard
Lakers are right at the top defending shots around the rim, they were
first by a good margin but haven't checked lately.
That they are great defending at the basket and at the 3 line shows you
why they are an elite defense.
--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard at yahoo dot com
http://twitter.com/LakerGMC
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/
"Rock always beats paper and scissors when you're a crackhead."
-- Gary Busey
Gary Collard
The notion that the Lakers have been leading the league in 3 defense by
allowing open shooters who just miss is just silly, unserious. Luck on
open misses or makes can account for small differences in percentage,
even this far into a season, but they can't make a team the best in the
league on that many attempts unless they are contesting the shots
extremely well.
Perhaps they are only the 5th best team in the L at contesting them
instead of the best, but no way in hell are they near or below average,
that's just covering your ears and doing the "nah nah nah nah I can't
hear you" thing.
--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard at yahoo dot com
http://twitter.com/LakerGMC
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/
"Rock always beats paper and scissors when you're a crackhead."
-- Gary Busey
Gary Collard
> Sports Fan <spo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:ssenj517qf06142j4...@4ax.com:
>
>>> I don't see how the stat of allowing more 3 attempts makes you worse at
>>> defending them...
>> How can I explain this more?
>> That means that you are not closing in on shooters.
>>
>
> it could also mean they're giving up more layups and there is no need to
> shoot 3s...
Allowing a lot of attemtps can also mean you tend to be ahead later in
games. It can also mean that you force teams to take shots late in shot
clocks. It can mean a whole lot of things, but what allowing about 30%
absolutely, positively cannot mean is that you defend the shot poorly.
Not possible.
--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard at yahoo dot com
http://twitter.com/LakerGMC
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/
"Rock always beats paper and scissors when you're a crackhead."
-- Gary Busey
Gary Collard
Yep, that one was all about the missed defensive rebound. The failure
to grab that ball does still sting, in a very minor way (nothing was on
the line those playoffs, we weren't any good).
--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard at yahoo dot com
http://twitter.com/LakerGMC
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/
"Rock always beats paper and scissors when you're a crackhead."
-- Gary Busey
Sports Fan
Gary Collard <garyc...@netscape.net> wrote:
>The notion that the Lakers have been leading the league in 3 defense by
>allowing open shooters who just miss is just silly, unserious
It has been established that you don't understand that there are things
that your carefully selected statistics are not showing.
That and your consistant efforts to come in late in threads that are
really old and post your responses taking what was said out of context
is not helping either.
Sports Fan
Gary Collard <garyc...@netscape.net> wrote:
You still don't understand what was said.
The rebound was missed, there was no question that it was a huge
mistake, Tim Thomas who is a one dimensional 3 PT shooter was left wide
open, and THAT was what tied the game and the collapse that happened
afterwards.
You can miss a rebound and get away with it with a tight defense
afterwards, and a 3PT shooter was left wide open and he made the shot,
and in the end it is the scoreboard what counts.
Kwame attempted to help, there was no argument about that, but why was
Kwame trying to run at a 3 point shooter, trying to change his shot?
Can you understand that?
Obviously not.
The answer is simple, the shooter was left wide open, and Shawn Marion
passed the ball to Tim.
End of the story.
Now try to make another excuse for this obvious flaw in the Lakers
defense.