Juwan Howard did not mean to do that
TxzSportsGuy
arms just right to send him spinning. I hope Anderson is okay, but Juwan did
not mean to do that and anyone who says he did did not see the slow motion
replay.
ni...@delete-nospam.negin.nu
it isn't a dirty player and he was obviously concerned. The refs didn't
really have much of a choice other than to eject him though.
I also hope Anderson is ok.
Regards
Nigel
--
TxzSportsGuy
>it isn't a dirty player and he was obviously concerned. The refs didn't
>really have much of a choice other than to eject him though.
I agree... even thoguht it was purely accidental, Juwan needed to be suspended
to show that accidents can't justify those.
Vaughn
"TxzSportsGuy" <txzspo...@cs.comPlano> wrote in message
news:20010505195918...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
I saw the slo-mo and I saw Anderson go down like a freaking bomb. Who cares
if it 'looked' like and accident, it was flagrant and way overboard. Ferry
should have knocked Juwan's ass down instead of just pushing him. Sure he
didn't mean to cripple Anderson but professionals know what they're doing
and know how to foul and how to take a guy out while making a slight effort
on the ball. He went for the flagrant and didn't think about what may
happen. It was NOT completely an accident.
>
Kazuya
<bvau...@qwest.REMOVE_TO_REPLY.net> wrote:
>I saw the slo-mo and I saw Anderson go down like a freaking bomb. Who cares
>if it 'looked' like and accident, it was flagrant and way overboard. Ferry
>should have knocked Juwan's ass down instead of just pushing him.
Please, Ferry is a fag. He's not knocking anything down but wide open
3's (not even those today).
> Sure he
>didn't mean to cripple Anderson but professionals know what they're doing
>and know how to foul and how to take a guy out while making a slight effort
>on the ball. He went for the flagrant and didn't think about what may
>happen. It was NOT completely an accident.
>
Don't be ridiculous, it was obviously an accident. But Howard has to
be responsible for his actions.
peace Kazuya
REJ
"TxzSportsGuy" <txzspo...@cs.comPlano> wrote in message
news:20010505195918...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
REJ
meat now.
Howard ought to be suspended for the rest of the playoffs and pay millions
in fines and pay all of Derek's expenses. Hell, I think he ought to be
arrested.
Screw Dallas. Let's take out Novitsky.
"TxzSportsGuy" <txzspo...@cs.comPlano> wrote in message
news:20010505195918...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
REJ
"TxzSportsGuy" <txzspo...@cs.comPlano> wrote in message
news:20010505195918...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
Vaughn
"Kazuya" <kazu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k269ftcp5d2rdihdn...@4ax.com...
REJ
Take out Novitsky!
Take out Novitsky!
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Take out Novitsky!
"TxzSportsGuy" <txzspo...@cs.comPlano> wrote in message
news:20010505195918...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
Venger
Juwan has a bit of a play angry in him - he flung Malone down, he nailed him
Derek. Did he mean to hurt him? No. Did he mean to deliver a hard foul? Yes.
He deserved the flagrant 2. You can't do that in the NBA.
Venger
"TxzSportsGuy" <txzspo...@cs.comPlano> wrote in message
news:20010505195918...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
Venger
"Vaughn" <bvau...@qwest.REMOVE_TO_REPLY.net> wrote in message
news:YB0J6.1539$5M2.3...@news.uswest.net...
>
> "TxzSportsGuy" <txzspo...@cs.comPlano> wrote in message
> news:20010505195918...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
> > That was just unfortunate. Juwan was going for all ball, but his arm hit
> Dereks
> > arms just right to send him spinning. I hope Anderson is okay, but Juwan
> did
> > not mean to do that and anyone who says he did did not see the slow
motion
> > replay.
>
> I saw the slo-mo and I saw Anderson go down like a freaking bomb. Who
cares
> if it 'looked' like and accident, it was flagrant and way overboard.
Agreed.
> Ferry should have knocked Juwan's ass down instead of just pushing him.
I'll take Juwan on 3 to 1 odds against Ferry's punk ass.
> Sure he
> didn't mean to cripple Anderson but professionals know what they're doing
> and know how to foul and how to take a guy out while making a slight
effort
> on the ball. He went for the flagrant and didn't think about what may
> happen. It was NOT completely an accident.
I have to concur, Howard knew it would be a hard foul. He certainly didn't
mean to hurt him. But he meant to give the hard foul...
Venger
Marcus Kwan
wrote:
YOu have to consider the circumstance. I don't think Howard meant to
do anything besides deny the easy basket, but when an offensive player
has that much of an open lane, and is going that fast, it is clearly
forseeable that Anderson would land badley. The flagrant 2 was
appropriate, but I do not see suspensions.
Venger
"Marcus Kwan" <mnospa...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:3af4c4f6...@209.84.17.10...
> On Sat, 5 May 2001 19:34:44 -0500, "Venger" <Ven...@augustmail.com>
> YOu have to consider the circumstance. I don't think Howard meant to
> do anything besides deny the easy basket, but when an offensive player
> has that much of an open lane, and is going that fast, it is clearly
> forseeable that Anderson would land badley. The flagrant 2 was
> appropriate, but I do not see suspensions.
Yep - you gotta defend your rim. No suspensions.
Venger
Marcus Kwan
wrote:
I'm oretty down about losing Anderson, though. It was a freak
accident, but Howard should not have made the play he did.
TxzSportsGuy
>From: mnospa...@gte.net (Marcus Kwan)
>Date: 5/5/01 6:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3af4c4f6...@209.84.17.10>
I agree. Though, no one expected him to land that way on his shoulder.
Marcus Kwan
wrote:
When you sweep the arms of the cutter in full leap, they rarely land
well. There have been a number of injuries that have resulted from
exactly this type of play, which is why I think the refs called it a
flagrant 2, even though the intent did not appear to be there. It's
just a dangerous, risky play.
Carver Lee
>
> When you sweep the arms of the cutter in full leap, they rarely land
> well. There have been a number of injuries that have resulted from
> exactly this type of play, which is why I think the refs called it a
> flagrant 2, even though the intent did not appear to be there. It's
> just a dangerous, risky play.
It's also a dangerous, risky play to attack the hoop the way Anderson did...
especially in the playoffs.
Not to try to defend what Howard did, but he did do exactly what you are
supposed to do in the playoffs. Don't give up the easy buckets at all cost.
Someone drives to the hoop, you make them think twice about it next time.
Howard comes from the East where that kind of physical play prevails in the
playoffs.
Anderson has been in the East's playoffs before. He should know the drill. I
think he mistook the Mavs for being the as soft as the Spurs. We used to be
but apparently not anymore with Mr. Howard.
Go Mavs
REJ
intentional and that Howard followed through in order to send a message to
Anderson. If Cuban is fined and punished by the NBA for his silly
antics....how is it that Howard deserves nothing more than a slap on the
wrist? Explain that to me? Dallas ought to be glad that the Spurs are a
class organization. If we had been the Lakers or the Blazers or the Rockets
and something like that had happened....there would have been blood all over
the floor.
Howard should be out for the rest of this series at least. Anything less is
a slap at DA and at pro basketball in general.
I think Karl Malone would feel right at home in Dallas. Why don't yall trade
for him and add another thug to your roster?
"Carver Lee" <carv...@go.com> wrote in message
news:xg5J6.70631$5r3.9...@news.easynews.com...
Venger
> news:3af4e1a5...@209.84.17.10...
> >
> > When you sweep the arms of the cutter in full leap, they rarely land
> > well. There have been a number of injuries that have resulted from
> > exactly this type of play, which is why I think the refs called it a
> > flagrant 2, even though the intent did not appear to be there. It's
> > just a dangerous, risky play.
>
> It's also a dangerous, risky play to attack the hoop the way Anderson
did...
> especially in the playoffs.
Come on. Reverse the situation and you'd be screaming bloody murder.
> Not to try to defend what Howard did, but he did do exactly what you are
> supposed to do in the playoffs. Don't give up the easy buckets at all
cost.
He did, gave the hard foul. The refs did what you are supposed to do in the
playoffs - flagrant 2.
> Someone drives to the hoop, you make them think twice about it next time.
> Howard comes from the East where that kind of physical play prevails in
the
> playoffs.
That can never justify fouling in a way predisposed to cause injury and that
doesn't involve playing the ball and the ball alone.
> Anderson has been in the East's playoffs before. He should know the drill.
I
> think he mistook the Mavs for being the as soft as the Spurs. We used to
be
> but apparently not anymore with Mr. Howard.
Jeez...
Venger
Carver Lee
Venger <Ven...@augustmail.com> wrote in message
news:w9dJ6.2256$oa2....@news6.giganews.com...
>
> > It's also a dangerous, risky play to attack the hoop the way Anderson
> did...especially in the playoffs.
>
> Come on. Reverse the situation and you'd be screaming bloody murder.
>
???? And your point is? Yes, I probably would but that's not my point at
all. The point is that it is dangerous to attack the hoop the way he did.
It's not like he was on a breakaway and Howard hit him from behind. There
were 4 Mavs around the basket. Did he think they were just going to stand
there and let him dunk it? Do you think he would have challenged the Knicks
defense like that? How about Portland's or Utah's?
> > Someone drives to the hoop, you make them think twice about it next
time.
> > Howard comes from the East where that kind of physical play prevails in
> the
> > playoffs.
>
> That can never justify fouling in a way predisposed to cause injury and
that
> doesn't involve playing the ball and the ball alone.
Look you turd.. If you want to debate my points, debate MY points. I'm not
trying to *justify* what Howard did. I'm merely stating the facts. Howard
could have let him have the dunk. Anderson could have pump faked instead of
attacking the basket with total disregard. At the least he could have braced
himself for some contact. That was the second time in a 10 minute span that
he attacked the rack like that. Dallas cannot let that happen and expect to
be competitive in this series.
> > Anderson has been in the East's playoffs before. He should know the
drill.
> I
> > think he mistook the Mavs for being the as soft as the Spurs. We used to
> be
> > but apparently not anymore with Mr. Howard.
>
> Jeez...
>
> Venger
It's a good thing you put your "NAME" at the bottom of your posts. We
wouldn't know who posted it otherwise.
Venger
> I'll type slower so maybe you can keep up this time.
Fucking please dude...
> Venger <Ven...@augustmail.com> wrote in message
> news:w9dJ6.2256$oa2....@news6.giganews.com...
> >
> > > It's also a dangerous, risky play to attack the hoop the way Anderson
> > did...especially in the playoffs.
> >
> > Come on. Reverse the situation and you'd be screaming bloody murder.
> >
> ???? And your point is?
That the rules of basketball don't change at playoff time. If Finley goes up
for a dunk, that doesn't mean Robinson can throw him to the floor because
it's a "risky play" to attack the hoop. Bullshit, it's not.
> Yes, I probably would but that's not my point at
> all. The point is that it is dangerous to attack the hoop the way he did.
He had a clear path to the basket! It was a fast break after a
turnover...why can't he dunk it?
> It's not like he was on a breakaway and Howard hit him from behind.
Uh, wasn't he? Go here:
http://www.espn.go.com/media/2001/q2/nba_010505sa1v.avi
Wasn't there a steal and a turnover? That's why Howard was rushing back. It
wasn't some half court defensive play.
> There were 4 Mavs around the basket.
Uh, no, there weren't, it was a fast break.
> Did he think they were just going to stand
> there and let him dunk it? Do you think he would have challenged the
Knicks
> defense like that? How about Portland's or Utah's?
Dude GO WATCH THE REPLAY. It's clear he went up to give the hard foul. The
Spurs were breaking and Nash hits the floor freeing the lane for Anderson to
the rim. Howard has to come from the free throw line back to the rim. It's
CLEAR.
> > > Someone drives to the hoop, you make them think twice about it next
> time.
> > > Howard comes from the East where that kind of physical play prevails
in
> > the
> > > playoffs.
> >
> > That can never justify fouling in a way predisposed to cause injury and
> that
> > doesn't involve playing the ball and the ball alone.
>
> Look you turd.. If you want to debate my points, debate MY points.
Look shitmuffin, I've dismantled your "points" one by one.
> I'm not
> trying to *justify* what Howard did. I'm merely stating the facts. Howard
> could have let him have the dunk.
He also could have played the ball more instead of the man.
> Anderson could have pump faked instead of attacking the basket with total
disregard.
What kind of pussyball do you want him to play? You like it when Finley
dunks in the lane? I sure do. And I think he does it with total disregard.
But that doesn't mean Malone can throw him to the ground. Reverse the
situation.
> At the least he could have braced himself for some contact.
What? Dude have you ever even PLAYED basketball?
> That was the second time in a 10 minute span that
> he attacked the rack like that. Dallas cannot let that happen and expect
to
> be competitive in this series.
Well Good God man, I can't argue with that...
But they need to play better defense, not commit more flagrant fouls...
> > Venger
>
> It's a good thing you put your "NAME" at the bottom of your posts. We
> wouldn't know who posted it otherwise.
Is that supposed to mean something?
Venger
Carver Lee
>
> "Carver Lee" <carv...@go.com> wrote in message
> news:U6fJ6.82107$5r3.1...@news.easynews.com...
> > I'll type slower so maybe you can keep up this time.
>
> Fucking please dude...
>
> > Venger <Ven...@augustmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:w9dJ6.2256$oa2....@news6.giganews.com...
> > >
> > > > It's also a dangerous, risky play to attack the hoop the way
Anderson
> > > did...especially in the playoffs.
> > >
> > > Come on. Reverse the situation and you'd be screaming bloody murder.
> > >
> > ???? And your point is?
>
> That the rules of basketball don't change at playoff time. If Finley goes
up
> for a dunk, that doesn't mean Robinson can throw him to the floor because
> it's a "risky play" to attack the hoop. Bullshit, it's not.
Correct. The RULES do not change but the nature of the game does. It becomes
much more physical and defensive minded during playoff time. If you argue
this fact than you are obviously know too little about the NBA for me to be
wasting my time on. Anytime, playoffs or not, you attack the oppositions
bucket the way Anderson did, you are putting yourself at risk.
And Howard did not "throw" him to the floor. He got ball first. Chances are
if he had gotten
all ball Anderson still would have landed like he did.
> > Yes, I probably would but that's not my point at
> > all. The point is that it is dangerous to attack the hoop the way he
did.
>
> He had a clear path to the basket! It was a fast break after a
> turnover...why can't he dunk it?
>
> > It's not like he was on a breakaway and Howard hit him from behind.
>
> Uh, wasn't he? Go here:
>
> http://www.espn.go.com/media/2001/q2/nba_010505sa1v.avi
>
> Wasn't there a steal and a turnover? That's why Howard was rushing back.
It
> wasn't some half court defensive play.
Clown, I don't need to "go here". I rolled tape on the game. I'm watching
the play right now as I type this. First of all, no, it wasn't a steal.
Finley took a jumper from the free throw line, Duncan rebounded and dished
out to Daniels. They came 4 on 4 the other way. All four Mavs were in or
around the paint while all 4 Spurs were out by the 3-point line. Nash went
down and Anderson attacked the basket. He did have a clear path to the
basket.. for a span of half a second. That path quickly closed.
>
> > There were 4 Mavs around the basket.
>
> Uh, no, there weren't, it was a fast break.
Apparently you need to watch the entire play again dimbulb.
> > Anderson could have pump faked instead of attacking the basket with
total
> disregard.
>
> What kind of pussyball do you want him to play? You like it when Finley
> dunks in the lane? I sure do. And I think he does it with total disregard.
> But that doesn't mean Malone can throw him to the ground. Reverse the
> situation.
>
> > At the least he could have braced himself for some contact.
>
> What? Dude have you ever even PLAYED basketball?
>
I think I should be asking you this question Mr. 24/7 usenet dweeb. I've
played organized ball since middle school. I been in the Hoop it Up twice a
year for about 8 years. Hard fouls are part of the game. Most of the time
hard fouls don't result in separated shoulders but this one did. Oh well.
Get the fuck over it.
Bottom line you pseudo-Mavs-fan: Howard had to commit that foul. If the
situation arises again, he needs to commit the foul again. The Mavs go
nowhere in the playoffs playing soft. It sucks that the foul resulted in a
serious injury but that's just how the cookie crumbles.
> > That was the second time in a 10 minute span that
> > he attacked the rack like that. Dallas cannot let that happen and expect
> to
> > be competitive in this series.
>
> Well Good God man, I can't argue with that...
>
> But they need to play better defense, not commit more flagrant fouls...
>
> > > Venger
> >
> > It's a good thing you put your "NAME" at the bottom of your posts. We
> > wouldn't know who posted it otherwise.
>
> Is that supposed to mean something?
>
> Venger
It's supposed to mean you're a dumbass. Now why don't you go play
reach-around with your new buddy REJ.
Venger
goes
> up
> > for a dunk, that doesn't mean Robinson can throw him to the floor
because
> > it's a "risky play" to attack the hoop. Bullshit, it's not.
>
> Correct. The RULES do not change but the nature of the game does. It
becomes
> much more physical and defensive minded during playoff time. If you argue
> this fact than you are obviously know too little about the NBA for me to
be
> wasting my time on. Anytime, playoffs or not, you attack the oppositions
> bucket the way Anderson did, you are putting yourself at risk.
Feel free not to waste any more time. Physical defense has nothing to do
with lighting into a player about to dunk. A hard foul is fine, which is
what he gave. And when your hard foul craters a player, you're gone. Which
is what happened.
> And Howard did not "throw" him to the floor. He got ball first. Chances
are
> if he had gotten
> all ball Anderson still would have landed like he did.
He got a little ball and alot of Derek.
> > Uh, wasn't he? Go here:
> >
> > http://www.espn.go.com/media/2001/q2/nba_010505sa1v.avi
> >
> > Wasn't there a steal and a turnover? That's why Howard was rushing back.
> It
> > wasn't some half court defensive play.
>
> Clown, I don't need to "go here". I rolled tape on the game. I'm watching
> the play right now as I type this. First of all, no, it wasn't a steal.
> Finley took a jumper from the free throw line, Duncan rebounded and dished
> out to Daniels. They came 4 on 4 the other way. All four Mavs were in or
> around the paint while all 4 Spurs were out by the 3-point line. Nash went
> down and Anderson attacked the basket. He did have a clear path to the
> basket.. for a span of half a second. That path quickly closed.
The path never closed, Juwan hit him from the free throw line coming down at
the rim. That's it. The fact that Juwan could only go for the hard foul and
not deny Derek on position shows just how out of place the Mav defense was.
> >
> > > There were 4 Mavs around the basket.
> >
> > Uh, no, there weren't, it was a fast break.
>
> Apparently you need to watch the entire play again dimbulb.
What is around the basket to you, on that side of halfcourt? Why didn't
someone meet him at the block in position? Cause no one was home.
> I think I should be asking you this question Mr. 24/7 usenet dweeb. I've
> played organized ball since middle school. I been in the Hoop it Up twice
a
> year for about 8 years. Hard fouls are part of the game. Most of the time
> hard fouls don't result in separated shoulders but this one did. Oh well.
> Get the fuck over it.
When Duncan retaliates and breaks Finleys wrist we can all just get the fuck
over it. Grow up. Howards contact was excessive, he was out of position to
make a defensive play, and taking the hard foul cost the Spurs a player for
the year. Rant away...
> Bottom line you pseudo-Mavs-fan: Howard had to commit that foul. If the
> situation arises again, he needs to commit the foul again. The Mavs go
> nowhere in the playoffs playing soft. It sucks that the foul resulted in a
> serious injury but that's just how the cookie crumbles.
The only thing that crumbled was Anderson. Howard apologized, why do you
continue to want to defend it?
> It's supposed to mean you're a dumbass. Now why don't you go play
> reach-around with your new buddy REJ.
Well you seem real chipper, you just pump the neighbors dog again?
Venger
Carver Lee
> The only thing that crumbled was Anderson. Howard apologized, why do you
> continue to want to defend it?
>
My original point (which I was making to Kwan, not you) is exactly this:
there was reckless play on both sides of the ball. Maybe Howard should have
thought about the consequnces before he fouled Anderson like that but
Anderson should have thought about the possible consequences of driving to
the rack like that. I bet he'll be thinking about it next year.. and he
would still be in the series if he thought about it this year.
Notice that nowhere am I DEFENDING Howard. Simply stating that it takes two
to tango.
Adrian Appleberry
To some degree this is true.... but, a basketball player of Howard's
longevity knows that a player can be taken out with contact like that, and
it could happen on almost every play under the hoop.
> It becomes much more physical and defensive minded during playoff
> time.
Absolutely.... however... On the Spurs championship run in 1999, it was ALL
ABOUT DEFENSE. Duncan and Robinson could clobber someone, but THEY NEVER
DID. They depended on their ability to legally defend a shot, and never
committed a hard foul just to avoid a dunk/lay-up at the end of a half.
Last year, Shaq and the Lakers played controlled defense, too... Someone of
Shaq's size could level players right and left if he hit someone like Howard
hit Anderson.
> And Howard did not "throw" him to the floor. He got ball first.
He did get the ball first, but that wasn't the problem.... If he'd not
followed through, or made an effort to grab Anderson to break his fall, it
wouldn't have been a flagrant 2. Or, if he'd just gone up and shacked his
arms/body and came back to the ground with him, it would have just been a
regular foul.
> Chances are if he had gotten
> all ball Anderson still would have landed like he did.
Doubt it.... It was Howard's right arm following through across Anderson's
neck that caused him to go horizontal, not the contact on the upper arms.
I've watched it countless times at different angels, and that's the point
where the damage was done...
Jin Park
anderson put himself in a very vulnerable situation. it's extremely
unfortunate what happened, but as don nelson said, injuries are a part of the
game. both players were running hard to the basket, one to dunk, the other to
defend. howard went for the ball, but his arms got tangled up with anderson.
da was going so fast that there was no way he could regain any balance to land
safely.
jin
Venger
> Venger <Ven...@augustmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ZFjJ6.3619$oa2....@news6.giganews.com...
> > The only thing that crumbled was Anderson. Howard apologized, why do you
> > continue to want to defend it?
> >
>
> My original point (which I was making to Kwan, not you) is exactly this:
> there was reckless play on both sides of the ball. Maybe Howard should
have
> thought about the consequnces before he fouled Anderson like that but
> Anderson should have thought about the possible consequences of driving to
> the rack like that. I bet he'll be thinking about it next year.. and he
> would still be in the series if he thought about it this year.
I just can't see how we can justify expecting an offensive player to stop
short and shoot a jumper because if not he'll get hammered.
> Notice that nowhere am I DEFENDING Howard. Simply stating that it takes
two
> to tango.
Just gotta disagree on this one...
Venger
Marcus Kwan
wrote:
>I'll type slower so maybe you can keep up this time.
>
>Venger <Ven...@augustmail.com> wrote in message
>news:w9dJ6.2256$oa2....@news6.giganews.com...
>>
>> > It's also a dangerous, risky play to attack the hoop the way Anderson
>> did...especially in the playoffs.
>>
>> Come on. Reverse the situation and you'd be screaming bloody murder.
>>
>???? And your point is? Yes, I probably would but that's not my point at
>all. The point is that it is dangerous to attack the hoop the way he did.
>It's not like he was on a breakaway and Howard hit him from behind. There
>were 4 Mavs around the basket. Did he think they were just going to stand
>there and let him dunk it? Do you think he would have challenged the Knicks
>defense like that? How about Portland's or Utah's?
Howard did attack him from behind. Look at the angles. Anderson had
a clear path, there was no chance for Howard to get to him. When they
made contact, Anderson was at least even with Howard, but was going
full throttle to the hoop, while Howard was going perpendicular to
him.
Look, I believe in the hard foul, nothing for free principle. If
Howard had been in front of Anderson, and had gone up and knocked him
down, that would be one thing. But to come from perpendicular and
just hit the upper body, that's flat out dangerous.
Marcus Kwan
wrote:
>Venger <Ven...@augustmail.com> wrote in message
Anderson had a clear path to the rim. Howard was a step slow and was
NOT in position to stop him. Are you saying that a player should not
drive a clear lane because in the playoffs, it is now acceptable to
foul them with abondon? Howard deserved the flagrant 2.
Bshaddo
over it. >>
Heh heh. I can just see Duncan chasing down Finley in a rage, screaming "I'm
a-fuck you up, bitch!"
Venger
"Bshaddo" <bsh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010512115420...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
He he, that's a pretty damn funny picture...
Venger
Solar...@webtv.net
team----I say AGAIN---we are NOT the Jazz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Solar...@webtv.net
motion??? Juwon was getting abused and he responded the only way he
knew how in a new situation!!! I only wished he would have tried to
save face in a more dignified manner---ie---tell the truth!!!