Do you really pronouce Perez, "pair-ez"
No Such Luck
change from Perez to Perez?
Steven Rubio
>I've heard Jon Milller do it for years, and now this guy on KNBR. Does it
>change from Perez to Perez?
Absent an accent mark, "PARE-ez" is the proper Spanish pronunciation.
Most people in America pronounce Spanish names wrong. Jon Miller is
usually very accurate in this regard, though.
Steven
Gregg Pearlman
One reason, as he made clear this weekend regarding Ismail Valdez, is
that he bothers to ask the players how *they* pronounce their names.
Gregg
JVV4sm
Oh, like they'd know.......
Josh Burnett
> One reason, as he made clear this weekend regarding Ismail Valdez, is
> that he bothers to ask the players how *they* pronounce their names.
Speaking of which, I was watching tonight's game on TBS (I live in
Massachusetts, so it was the only broadcast I had access to), and the
Braves' announcers, aside from doing their usual crappy job, were
killing me by calling Felipe Alou "fuh-LEEP." Gah. The man's only been
in baseball for forty years - you'd think they could get his name
right.
j...@socrates.berkeley.edu
To answer the original question: no, you pronounce it "lu-NEER"
JHB
Gregg Pearlman
As inclined as I am to rip the TBS guys along with you, I'd have to cut
them some slack on this one, if only because no one even called the guy
"fay-LEE-pay" until he surfaced as a manager with the Expos. If even then.
Apparently Matty Alou always wanted to be called Mateo, too.
Gregg
Gregg Pearlman
>>One reason, as he made clear this weekend regarding Ismail Valdez, is
>>that he bothers to ask the players how *they* pronounce their names.
>
> Oh, like they'd know.......
Good point. "What an idiot. He doesn't even know how to pronounce his
own name."
Gregg
Steven Rubio
<EEEE...@EEEEEEgp.com> wrote:
>Apparently Matty Alou always wanted to be called Mateo, too.
Well, as long as we're getting down to the details, "Alou" ain't their
last name. And even if it was, I don't think it's pronounced "uh-LOO."
Steven
Gregg Pearlman
Well, their name is Alou Rojas (with one hint being that Mel Rojas is
their nephew), and I *think* Alou is their mom's name. Evidently Felipe
pronounces it "AH-lo." For a brief time last year, Jon Miller was going
with that pronunciation, but I'm guessing he was told to knock it off,
lest fans be disoriented.
I gather that it's fairly common for people in Spanish-speaking
countries to use their mother's last name rather than their father's. (I
don't know Moises' mom's last name.)
Also, Jesus Alou's name is Jesus Maria, and while I (again) gather that
names like that, or Jose Maria, are common, and that's how the bearers
of those names are usually addressed, I'm pretty sure that Felipe and
Matty call their brother Jesus, not Jesus Maria.
Gregg
Steven Rubio
<EEEE...@EEEEEEgp.com> wrote:
>Well, their name is Alou Rojas
It's one of those tricks where our standard way of listing a name
differs from some other cultures. Like Chow Yun-Fat ... his "last"
name is Chow. The family name is Rojas Alou, with "Rojas" being the
operative "last name" ... but since in our society, the last name is,
well, the last name, it's assumed that someone named "Felipe Rojas
Alou" should be called "Felipe Alou" when in fact it should be "Felipe
Rojas."
And Moises Alou was born "Moises Rojas." Well, he was probably born
"Moises Rojas MomMaidenName," but you know what I mean. A quick trip
to Google shows that they've apparently had this discussion before at
Baseball Primer.
And we shouldn't forget that other famous name change:
Immigration officer to young boy: "What's your name?"
Translator: "Vito Andolini from Corleone."
Immigration officer: "Vito Corleone. Next!"
Steven
Richard Booroojian
"Steven Rubio" <sru...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dd9t8059cogciegfa...@4ax.com...
> And we shouldn't forget that other famous name change:
>
> Immigration officer to young boy: "What's your name?"
>
> Translator: "Vito Andolini from Corleone."
>
> Immigration officer: "Vito Corleone. Next!"
Ahhhh. No matter how bad things are in Giantland, a Godfather reference will
always make things seem a little better.
rb
Gregg Pearlman
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:24:55 -0700, Gregg Pearlman
> <EEEE...@EEEEEEgp.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, their name is Alou Rojas
>
> It's one of those tricks where our standard way of listing a name
> differs from some other cultures. Like Chow Yun-Fat ... his "last"
> name is Chow. The family name is Rojas Alou, with "Rojas" being the
> operative "last name" ... but since in our society, the last name is,
> well, the last name, it's assumed that someone named "Felipe Rojas
> Alou" should be called "Felipe Alou" when in fact it should be "Felipe
> Rojas."
Huh. You sure it's Rojas Alou? I thought it always *had* been given that
way, till the Macmillan Encyclopedia listed them as "born XXX Alou Rojas."
> And Moises Alou was born "Moises Rojas." Well, he was probably born
> "Moises Rojas MomMaidenName,"
Sphinkle.
> but you know what I mean. A quick trip
> to Google shows that they've apparently had this discussion before at
> Baseball Primer.
>
> And we shouldn't forget that other famous name change:
>
> Immigration officer to young boy: "What's your name?"
>
> Translator: "Vito Andolini from Corleone."
>
> Immigration officer: "Vito Corleone. Next!"
I figure that happened a lot. Also, various spellings of people's names
have a lot to do with the whim of whatever officer you got at the time.
That's why there are so many Pearlmans who, unlike me, spell it wrong.
Gregg
Josh Burnett
> As inclined as I am to rip the TBS guys along with you, I'd have to cut
> them some slack on this one, if only because no one even called the guy
> "fay-LEE-pay" until he surfaced as a manager with the Expos. If even then.
Interesting. His playing days were before my time (I grew up in the
glorious Dan Gladden-Brad Wellman era), and I had always heard it
pronounced with three syllables.
But how about this one: the TBS announcers *twice* referred to Deivi
Cruz as Neifi Perez - first when he was thrown out at home plate, and
then at the end of the game when they were talking about the play. I
mean, they're similarly terrible hitters, but geez...
The worst butchering of a Spanish name by announcers, though, came
when I lived in New York a few years ago. I was watching the Mets play
the Rockies on tv, and neither of their announcers could get Vinny
Castilla's name right. One guy called him Castillo, and the other said
it "Cast-uh-lee-uh."
JVV4sm
Lefebvre comes to mind.........
JVV4sm
There was that battle at the start of last year when Felipe mentioned that he
pronounces his name in his native country "uh-low" -- so Miller (and maybe
Angel) began pronouncing it that way. However, everyone else in the bay area
media kept pronouncing it "uh-LOO" leading to angry letters and phone calls
("I'm so confused! One announcer calls his this, the other calls him that!")
until Miller agreed to stop.
Gregg Pearlman
Almost *anybody* with that name. I've only heard the two "baseball"
pronunciations, including one apiece by people who *weren't* in baseball.
Gregg
Gregg Pearlman
> Gregg Pearlman <EEEE...@EEEEEEgp.com> wrote in message news:<c6lu07$238$2...@news.Stanford.EDU>...
>
>>As inclined as I am to rip the TBS guys along with you, I'd have to cut
>>them some slack on this one, if only because no one even called the guy
>>"fay-LEE-pay" until he surfaced as a manager with the Expos. If even then.
>
> Interesting. His playing days were before my time (I grew up in the
> glorious Dan Gladden-Brad Wellman era), and I had always heard it
> pronounced with three syllables.
I guess there was some oddball desire to "Frenchify" his name. Then
again, they called his brother Mateo "Matty," as I mentioned, and they
pronounced Juan Marichal's name as "MAIR-uh-shell." Either it's the
standard willful ignorance that broadcasters seem to have in abundance,
or they had some sort of weird vibe about the Giants having so many
Latin-born players. Or something.
> But how about this one: the TBS announcers *twice* referred to Deivi
> Cruz as Neifi Perez - first when he was thrown out at home plate, and
> then at the end of the game when they were talking about the play. I
> mean, they're similarly terrible hitters, but geez...
Yeah, but given the abject failure, you can totally understand the
mistake. I mean, you notice that they didn't misidentify him after he
hit the double.
> The worst butchering of a Spanish name by announcers, though, came
> when I lived in New York a few years ago. I was watching the Mets play
> the Rockies on tv, and neither of their announcers could get Vinny
> Castilla's name right. One guy called him Castillo, and the other said
> it "Cast-uh-lee-uh."
That's pretty good.
Bob Waller, who used to do A's games on TV in the mid- to late '70s,
used to pronounce Miguel Dilone's first name as "MIG-well."
Gregg
Gregg Pearlman
>>On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:24:55 -0700, Gregg Pearlman
>><EEEE...@EEEEEEgp.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Apparently Matty Alou always wanted to be called Mateo, too.
>>
>>Well, as long as we're getting down to the details, "Alou" ain't their
>>last name. And even if it was, I don't think it's pronounced "uh-LOO."
>
> There was that battle at the start of last year when Felipe mentioned that he
> pronounces his name in his native country "uh-low" --
It was more like "AH-low." Which also doesn't follow the Classic Rules
Of Spanish Pronunciation But I Don't Care.
> so Miller (and maybe
> Angel) began pronouncing it that way. However, everyone else in the bay area
> media kept pronouncing it "uh-LOO" leading to angry letters and phone calls
> ("I'm so confused! One announcer calls his this, the other calls him that!")
> until Miller agreed to stop.
'S what I figured.
Gregg
dave yan
everything i needed to know in life, i learned from the first two
godfather movies.
-dy
---------
marking slogans:
nba: i love this game.
nfl: on any given sunday...
mlb: watch bonds get a 4-pitch, bases empty walk with his team down 8-0.
JVV4sm
Just in case I remembered wrong:
Giants' crew in a stew over 'A-loh' or 'A-lew'
Steve Kroner
Friday, May 16, 2003
URL:
sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/05/16/SP273209.DTL
Jon Miller said he didn't intend to cause any type of stir when he began
pronouncing Felipe Alou's last name "A-loh."
"I was just paying my own little personal tribute to him," Miller said
Thursday. "I was showing him respect."
On Monday, Miller reverted to the "A-lew" pronunciation. Though "A-loh" is the
proper Spanish way to say the Giants' manager's name, Miller said he realized
much of the audience was having trouble adjusting to it.
"For a lot of people, it sounded like someone hitting the wrong note in an old
song," said Miller, who began using the "A-loh" pronunciation during the
Giants' series in Pittsburgh last month. "That doesn't mean it was wrong.
"Still, if A-loh sounded wrong and was detracting from the fans' enjoyment of
the game, I figured I'd go back to A-lew."
Miller said the Giants' manager has grown accustomed to hearing his name
pronounced "A-lew" for nearly a half-century in the United States, so Alou is
comfortable with the "A-lew" pronunciation in the States and "A-loh" in his
native Dominican Republic.
As for the rest of the Giants' broadcast team, Joe Angel also had been using
the "A-loh" pronunciation, but Duane Kuiper and Mike Krukow stayed with
"A-lew."
Angel also has gone back to the "A-lew" pronunciation. "We're just trying to be
consistent," Angel said. "In one respect, it does make it a lot easier because
when I'd say 'A-loh,' I know some people out there were thinking, 'What an
idiot. He doesn't even know how to pronounce the manager's name.' "
The "A-loh/A-lew" saga does bring up a larger issue for broadcasters,
specifically, the responsibility to say someone's name the way that person
wants it pronounced.
Miller mentioned his pronunciation of Mets outfielder Timo Perez as "PARE- ez"
-- instead of the more-often-heard "Puh-REZ" -- as an example of him simply
saying the name as it's supposed to be said, even though it might sound
incorrect.
Some Spanish-speaking players, Miller said, have told him they appreciate his
effort to get their names pronounced right. Sometimes, it does take some
effort.
Miller mentioned the case of former Brewers pitcher Jaime Navarro. People
around Milwaukee had been calling him "Jamey." Miller asked Navarro if he
wanted to be called "Jamey." Navarro said that was fine.
Miller pressed him, asking what he really preferred, what his mother and
siblings called him. Finally, Navarro said, "High-may."
"There's a difference," Miller said, "between it's OK to say a name a certain
way and what truly is preferred."
THE CORRECT SETUP: Using the play-by-play calls of key moments in games
enhances radio and TV sportscasts, giving those sportscasts added dimensions of
drama and production value. Of course, there's a right way and a wrong way to
lead into those calls (Pet Peeve No. 271).
This is basic Broadcasting 101 stuff. If, for instance, John Doe hits a
game-winning, three-run homer off Bill Jones in the ninth inning, a possible
setup line for that call might be, Doe faced Jones with two men aboard in the
ninth . . .
All too often, broadcasters give away the drama by saying something to the
effect of Doe hit a game-winning, three-run homer off Jones in the ninth
inning. Here's that call . . .
This is akin to Pet Peeve No. 243, when announcers lead into sound bites by
saying the exact thing the interviewee says in the first part of his or her
answer. Sticking with the Doe HR example, let's say Doe's sound bite about his
HR begins, "I was looking for a fastball inside."
Sure enough, some announcers will lead into that bite by saying, Doe was
looking for a fastball inside. Doe, doh! A little creativity, folks, goes a
long way.
BRIEFLY: Jerry Seinfeld is a guest on HBO's "On the Record with Bob Costas" at
11:30 tonight. It's not known if the conversation will include an analysis of
George Costanza's career as an executive with the Yankees. . . . Fox begins its
regional Saturday baseball telecasts this weekend. At 1 p.m., KTVU (Channel 2)
has the Mets-Giants game, with Kenny Albert and Steve Lyons in the booth.
Giants first baseman J.T. Snow is scheduled to wear a microphone for "Sounds of
the Game" segments.
At 7 p.m. Saturday, Fox Sports Net will premiere its monthly magazine show,
"A's Baseball Country," hosted by Glen Kuiper. . . . KICU (Channel 36) has
another "inside the truck" A's telecast at 7 p.m. Tuesday. Using the SAP
function, the audience can hear director Mark Wolfson's instructions to the
crew during the Twins-A's game. . . . On Wednesday, ESPN will have longtime NBC
announcer Curt Gowdy join Chris Berman and Joe Morgan in the booth for the
Yankees-Red Sox telecast. Other prominent broadcasters who will appear on
Wednesday ESPN games throughout the season include Marty Brennaman, Ernie
Harwell, Keith Jackson and Harry Kalas.
E-mail Steve Kroner at skr...@sfchronicle.com.
Page C - 2
Gregg Pearlman
> Giants' crew in a stew over 'A-loh' or 'A-lew'
> Steve Kroner
> Friday, May 16, 2003
>
> "For a lot of people, it sounded like someone hitting the wrong note in an old
> song," said Miller, who began using the "A-loh" pronunciation during the
> Giants' series in Pittsburgh last month. "That doesn't mean it was wrong.
Good call.
> As for the rest of the Giants' broadcast team, Joe Angel also had been using
> the "A-loh" pronunciation, but Duane Kuiper and Mike Krukow stayed with
> "A-lew."
That would be "doo-AH-nay KWEE-per."
> Angel also has gone back to the "A-lew" pronunciation. "We're just trying to be
> consistent," Angel said. "In one respect, it does make it a lot easier because
> when I'd say 'A-loh,' I know some people out there were thinking, 'What an
> idiot. He doesn't even know how to pronounce the manager's name.' "
But in another, that's not necessarily why some people were thinking,
"What an idiot." Or was that mean?
> Miller mentioned his pronunciation of Mets outfielder Timo Perez as "PARE- ez"
> -- instead of the more-often-heard "Puh-REZ" -- as an example of him simply
> saying the name as it's supposed to be said, even though it might sound
> incorrect.
It's been explained to me -- by someone who's a native English speaker
but who also speaks Spanish fluently -- that Miller's pronunciation is
wrong, and that it really *is* "puh-REZ." They explained why, but I
don't remember the explanation. Hope that helps.
> Miller mentioned the case of former Brewers pitcher Jaime Navarro. People
> around Milwaukee had been calling him "Jamey." Miller asked Navarro if he
> wanted to be called "Jamey." Navarro said that was fine.
What about Julian "Dgulian Hoolian" Tavarez?
> Miller pressed him, asking what he really preferred, what his mother and
> siblings called him. Finally, Navarro said, "High-may."
>
> "There's a difference," Miller said, "between it's OK to say a name a certain
> way and what truly is preferred."
Another good call. What matters is what the player wants. Robby Thompson
used to be "Rob" until he finally allowed as how everyone, all his life,
has called him "Robby." However, I also remember that the Giants
basically refused, at around the same time, to let Dan Gladden be called
"Danny."
Gregg
JVV4sm
>Another good call. What matters is what the player wants. Robby Thompson
>used to be "Rob" until he finally allowed as how everyone, all his life,
>has called him "Robby." However, I also remember that the Giants
>basically refused, at around the same time, to let Dan Gladden be called
>"Danny."
>
Tell us the ballad of Jeff(rey) Leonard.........
Gregg Pearlman
He's Jeffreeeeee...
Big Jeffreeeeee!
He
Never hit to right 'less he was injuuuuured!
He's Jeffreeeeee...
Big Jeffreeeeee!
He's the man
They used to call
"Penitentiary Faaaaaaaaace"
Till someoooooone
Yes, someoooooone
Yes, someone said that it would be
Way more chic and more PC
To call
Jeffreeeeee...
Our Jeffreeeeee...
"Correctional Facility...
"Correctional Facility...
"Correctional Facility
"Faaaaaace!"
Gregg
A Jaunty One
"Gregg Pearlman" <EEEE...@EEEEEEgp.com> wrote in message
>
Thompson
> used to be "Rob" until he finally allowed as how everyone, all his
life,
> has called him "Robby." However, I also remember that the Giants
> basically refused, at around the same time, to let Dan Gladden be
called
> "Danny."
Don't you have friends that call you "Gggreggyyy"? Something like
that...
Gregg Pearlman
Not twice.
> Something like that...
I tend to pick people as friends who are wiser than that.
Gregg
MH
> JVV4sm wrote:
>
> > Tell us the ballad of Jeff(rey) Leonard.........
>
> He's Jeffreeeeee...
> Big Jeffreeeeee!
> He
> Never hit to right 'less he was injuuuuured!
> He's Jeffreeeeee...
> Big Jeffreeeeee!
> He's the man
> They used to call
> "Penitentiary Faaaaaaaaace"
> Till someoooooone
> Yes, someoooooone
> Yes, someone said that it would be
> Way more chic and more PC
> To call
> Jeffreeeeee...
> Our Jeffreeeeee...
> "Correctional Facility...
> "Correctional Facility...
> "Correctional Facility
> "Faaaaaace!"
>
> Gregg
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Martha
>
JVV4sm
Every time I hear that song I get a tear in my eye........
Gregg Pearlman
The *real* one, I hope.
Gregg
JVV4sm
Nah, the glass one......