Boras on the radio
Lckahuna
encouraging from either interview seems that brown wants
1) Lots of money
2)Competive team
3)His family close
Brown is the perfect Boras client Brown is impossible to read he has a great
poker face and refuses to give any hope to any of his suiters. He has 8 teams
bidding on him and he will just let them bid up the price. Whoever wins this
sweepstake will have overpaid in years and dollars. I would start looking at
plan B Clemons he is a bargain at 5 mil a year we might have to overpay in
talent and there will be a bidding war for him also but I would try
LC
There is only one hard and fast rule about the place to have a party: someone
else's place ................. P.J. O'Rourke
super...@my-dejanews.com
lcka...@aol.com (Lckahuna) wrote:
> Seems that Browns agent was on 690 and 760 am yesterday I heard nothing
> encouraging from either interview seems that brown wants
> 1) Lots of money
>
> 2)Competive team
>
> 3)His family close
>
> Brown is the perfect Boras client Brown is impossible to read he has a great
> poker face and refuses to give any hope to any of his suiters. He has 8 teams
> bidding on him and he will just let them bid up the price. Whoever wins this
> sweepstake will have overpaid in years and dollars. I would start looking at
> plan B Clemons he is a bargain at 5 mil a year we might have to overpay in
> talent and there will be a bidding war for him also but I would try
> LC
Re-signing KevinBrown, even if he is grossly overpaid, is far better than
trading our best prospects for Roger Clemens. Let's look at the two options
you bring up above:
Option A: Re-sign Kevin Brown
Pros:
1. We bring back one of the nastiest right-handers in the game. Marquee name
helpful for selling tickets with Caminiti and Finley both gone.
2. We keep Matt Clement, Ruben Rivera, Ben Davis, and other prospects
Cons:
Brown will be grossly overpaid considering his age. Possible long contract
could be a burden when age finally catches up with him in about 4 years.
Option B: Give up on Brown, acquire Roger Clemens from Blue Jays
Pros: We get Roger Clemens, the greatest pitcher currently in the AL
Cons:
1. We lose our top propects, which could include:
Matt Clement
Ruben Rivera
Ben Davis
etc.
2. Clemens is even older than Brown. Because of age, he's not a long-term
answer.
I say Option A wins by a mile. The Clemens option sounds like the proposed
Randy Johnson trade of last season. It would be suicidal for the Padres if
they went through with Option B - the devastation to their farm system would
take years to recover.
NO on Roger Clemens.
SF
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Brendan
super...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<749pge$20t$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Option C: Resign Brown AND make trade for Clemens.
Pros: Vault to the head of the class
Cons: Can you think of one? :)
Brendan
remove "*NO" to email me
Padres 98 NL Champs
super...@my-dejanews.com
Cons: Padres make a couple more trips to the World Series, then languish in
the cellar for the next 10 years because their farm is destroyed by Clemens
trade.
Brendan
super...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<74anij$q2g$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Word has it, that Stewart is interested in Hamilton and Micelli. I would
make that trade in a heart beat. Besides, isnt a couple more trips to the
series what its all about?
super...@my-dejanews.com
"Brendan" <paublo*N...@home.com> wrote:
>
> super...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
> <74anij$q2g$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >In article <9Y0a2.86$f97...@news.rdc1.sdca.home.com>,
> > "Brendan" <paublo*N...@home.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> super...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
> >> <749pge$20t$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >> >In article <19981204112300...@ng-cf1.aol.com>,
> >> > lcka...@aol.com (Lckahuna) wrote:
> >>
> >> Option C: Resign Brown AND make trade for Clemens.
> >>
> >> Pros: Vault to the head of the class
> >>
> >> Cons: Can you think of one? :)
> >
> >Cons: Padres make a couple more trips to the World Series, then languish
> in
> >the cellar for the next 10 years because their farm is destroyed by Clemens
> >trade.
> >
> >SF
>
> Word has it, that Stewart is interested in Hamilton and Micelli. I would
I hope, for all of our sakes, that is all Stewart wants. He might also want
Matt Clement and Ruben Rivera.
> make that trade in a heart beat. Besides, isnt a couple more trips to the
> series what its all about?
Not if we're pulling a "Marlins"...
JoDiego
<<Cons: Padres make a couple more trips to the World Series, then languish in
the cellar for the next 10 years because their farm is destroyed by Clemens
trade.>>
Maybe I just don't recall all the phenoms that have come out of the Padres
minor league system in the last 30 years, so maybe you can refresh my memory.
Just who in the hell could we possibly lose that would DESTROY our minor league
system for the next 10 years? World Championships are not won by teams that
are stocked with players from their minor league systems. They are won by
teams that spend BIG bucks on free agents......sorry, but that is reality.
robert curtis
farm system. The Braves and Indians have basically developed their superstars and
the Yankees have used their farm system to fill holes throughout the organization.
They have successfully traded away young players with talent for superstars, but
have continued the emphasis on developing from within. Teams like the Pirates and
Twins were able to compete for a while because of the way they developed players.
2) The reason that the Padres have languished in mediocrity is because of the lack
of emphasis on their farm system. During the Werner years, the Padres drafted
Todd Helton and Troy Glaus in successive years and failed to sign them. I wonder
what our team would be like today if we had two of the top 5 young players in
baseball on our infield corners rather than Wally Joyner and George Arias. Other
players on that list include Alan Benes and Geoff Jenkins who are bright young
players in the Cardinals and Brewers organizations respectively.
3) Matt Clement and Ruben Rivera are the best prospects that this organization has
had since Robbie Alomar. The reason everybody wants Matt is because he is
consider to be a pitcher in the league of Kerry Wood and Brett Tomko. Trading away
a 24 year old kid with the type of arm that he has would be moronic considering the
current state of the team. Ruben has as high a ceiling as any OF prospect in
baseball.
4) Why trade for Roger Clemens when you haven't invested in improving your team?
The Padres are obviously in rebuild mode, so why trade young talented prospects for
a pitcher that will be done before the team is any good. I've faced the fact that
they got rid of two aging players in order to give young players a shot. We will
struggle immensely because of it and will be lucky to be .500. It made sense to
trade for Kevin Brown last year, because they were a frontline starter away from a
championship team. With Clemens, our lineup is not strong enough to make a
championship run ... so which is the worse of two evils: playing young players and
having them develop or having an old, overpaid lineup with little chance to win it
all.
5) The only way the Padres contend in the future is if they get their stars through
the farm system and tweak their team through FA. For some reason, the belief is
that they will not be able to completely rebuild their team through FA. They are
reportedly on the verge of resigining Trevor Hoffman to a 4 year contract, which
would be nice.
6) My prediction on the young players
Ruben Rivera, .250 20 HR's, 70 RBIs, 15 SB ... he will start to show signs of
being the star player he is capable of being. The 20 HR's and 15 SB are a sign of
things to come. The.250 BA will be his major flaw, but that will come with age.
The pressure will be on him to hit with power, because there is nobody on this team
other than him and Gwynn capable of protecting Vaughn ... and Gwynn is too valuable
in the 2 or 3 hole.
Matt Clement, 9-10 4.40 ERA, 185 SO's ... he'll string together some dominant
outings with some really poor efforts. He will get a lot of K's and hit a lot of
batters, but he will continue to be the one player that everybody covets.
George Arias, .192 7 HR's, 25 RBIs ... it will become painfully obvious to the
Padres that he is universally disliked by scouts for a reason ... he doesn't have
the bat speed to be a regular. 3B is going to be a void for them. This almost
worse than starting Chris James at 3B. I personally hope they sign a decent 3B
insurance policy. I've heard Tim Naehring and Sean Berry as possibilities ... I'd
almost consider taking a flyer on Tony Phillips because he would bring some speed
to the top of the lineup and is versatile enough to play CF in a pinch (not a long
term solution).
JustTerrie
>Not if we're pulling a "Marlins"...
What the Padres have done this off-season is nowhere close to what the Marlins
did. The Padres let go an aging, ailing third baseman and a great CF who has
been in a severe hitting slump. That's all. The Marlins dismantled the entire
team. So far, The Padres have only lost two free agents.
super...@my-dejanews.com
jod...@aol.com (JoDiego) wrote:
> Superfan reflects on the outstanding minor league system of the Padres........
> <<Cons: Padres make a couple more trips to the World Series, then languish in
> the cellar for the next 10 years because their farm is destroyed by Clemens
> trade.>>
>
> Maybe I just don't recall all the phenoms that have come out of the Padres
> minor league system in the last 30 years, so maybe you can refresh my memory.
> Just who in the hell could we possibly lose that would DESTROY our minor
league
> system for the next 10 years? World Championships are not won by teams that
> are stocked with players from their minor league systems. They are won by
> teams that spend BIG bucks on free agents......sorry, but that is reality.
You mean, like the Florida Marlins?
super...@my-dejanews.com
robert curtis
year, but it is very close to what the Pirates did in the early 1990s. Last year,
the Padres were built on contact hitters with two power hitters in the middle of
the lineup. Now, they are a team without speed and power. That 3B was aging and
ailing, but he hit 29 HR's last year and came at a reasonable price.
Again ... I have no problem with Padres giving talented young prospects an
opportunity, but getting rid of Ken Caminiti and playing George Arias at 3B is a
joke. If you didn't want Ken, atleast get somebody in here who atleast has
talent. Merv Rettemund (who doesn't mince words) says George will need to
shorten his swing to be successful at the major league level. Scouts say George
is a player in between ML quality and AAA quality. His swing is long and his
defense is average ... and this is the guy that we have replacing that old guy who
hit 29 HR's. What's worse is that we don't have depth at 3B in the high minors to
replace George when (if) he fails. Unlike CF where we have Ruben Rivera at the ML
level and Gary Matthews Jr at AAA, we have nobody else to take over. Our best 3B
prospect, Sean Burroughs, will be at A ball next year.
The Padres will rue the day that they didn't resign Ken Caminiti or atleast
replace him amply when George hits .192.
Would you consider a trade that would send Randy Myers to the Colorado Rockies for
Mike Lansing? Mike has played 3B in the past and atleast brings some speed to the
top of the lineup. Randy Myers would give them a closer. Salary wise, it is a
wash.
Lev Polinsky
: Superfan reflects on the outstanding minor league system of the Padres........
: <<Cons: Padres make a couple more trips to the World Series, then languish in
: the cellar for the next 10 years because their farm is destroyed by Clemens
: trade.>>
: Maybe I just don't recall all the phenoms that have come out of the Padres
: minor league system in the last 30 years, so maybe you can refresh my memory.
: Just who in the hell could we possibly lose that would DESTROY our minor league
: system for the next 10 years? World Championships are not won by teams that
: are stocked with players from their minor league systems. They are won by
: teams that spend BIG bucks on free agents......sorry, but that is reality.
Braves: Chipper Jones, Andruw Jones, Javier Lopez, Tom Glavine, Kevin
Millwood, and Kerry Ligtenberg were all Braves minor-leaguers; John
Smoltz, Denny Neagle, and Michael Tucker were acquired by way of trade
(Smoltz was a minor-leaguer at the time); Galarraga, Weiss, and Maddux
were FAs.
Yankees: Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera,
Jorge Posada were all developed by the Yanks. They traded for Knoblauch
and (long time ago) O'Neill and Martinez. They signed Cone, Wells, and
Orlando Hernandez, as well as Scott Brosius, as FAs. The latter was not a
big-buck FA.
Indians: Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, Bartolo Colon, Jaret Wright, Brian
Giles and Richie Sexson were developed there. Sandy Alomar, David
Justice, and most of the bullpen was acquired through trade. Lofton was a
big-buck FA, but they developed him, too. They also signed Travis Fryman.
Astros: Biggio, Bagwell, almost whole pitching staff -- developed. Randy
Johnson, Derek Bell, Brad Ausmus, Sean Bergman -- trade. Free agents --
none I can think of.
The Orioles have spent a ton of money on FAs over the past years. Where
are they now? The Orioles are gonna suck next year, despite their
willingness to spend on FAs.
World Series are won by teams that get on base successfully and score
runs, and prevent the other team from doing the same. Whether they
achieve this goal by trading for players, developing them, or signing them
as FAs is of secondary importance, and most teams seem to be taking a
middle road of doing a little of each.
The statement about destroying your minor-league system for 10 years is a
bit excessive. It's really hard to do damage for more than about 5 years.
--
--Lev http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~polinsky poli...@fas.harvard.edu
Vinay Kumar
Thanks for posting the list. One correction, though:
> Yankees: Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera,
> Jorge Posada were all developed by the Yanks. They traded for Knoblauch
> and (long time ago) O'Neill and Martinez. They signed Cone, Wells, and
> Orlando Hernandez, as well as Scott Brosius, as FAs. The latter was not a
> big-buck FA.
Brosius was acquired in a trade, for Kenny Rogers.
And to add, even the '97 Marlins were built primarily through the farm
system and trades, not "bought". Even someone like Kevin Brown, who
was a FA was signed a long time ago and improved once he joined
Florida, which to me means that they did a little to develop him
there, rather than just signing him on as a hired gun. All the FA
money that got headlines went to second-tier players like Bonilla,
Eisenreich, etc.
--
/---------------------------------------------------------------\
| Vinay Kumar |
| vi...@baseball.org http://www.baseball.org/~vinay |
\---------------------------------------------------------------/
KeyHit
>Date: 12/7/98 10:34 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <qxfogpf...@johnfk.CS.Berkeley.EDU>
>
>Lev Polinsky <poli...@fas.harvard.edu> writes:
>
>Thanks for posting the list. One correction, though:
>
>> Yankees: Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera,
>> Jorge Posada were all developed by the Yanks. They traded for Knoblauch
>> and (long time ago) O'Neill and Martinez. They signed Cone, Wells, and
>> Orlando Hernandez, as well as Scott Brosius, as FAs. The latter was not a
>> big-buck FA.
>
>Brosius was acquired in a trade, for Kenny Rogers.
>
>And to add, even the '97 Marlins were built primarily through the farm
>system and trades, not "bought". Even someone like Kevin Brown, who
>was a FA was signed a long time ago and improved once he joined
>Florida, which to me means that they did a little to develop him
>there, rather than just signing him on as a hired gun.
He said as much himself. He gave Rothschild a lot of credit for teaching him
about the mental/emotional aspects of pitching.
>All the FA
>money that got headlines went to second-tier players like Bonilla,
>Eisenreich, etc.
Well, they also got Alou, Leiter and Fernandez via FA. Maybe others?
Billy
Nobby N. Coburn
>
>And to add, even the '97 Marlins were built primarily through the farm
>system and trades, not "bought". Even someone like Kevin Brown, who
>was a FA was signed a long time ago and improved once he joined
>Florida, which to me means that they did a little to develop him
>money that got headlines went to second-tier players like Bonilla,
>Eisenreich, etc.
Did they trade for Alou and Leiter?
Nobby
Vinay Kumar
I shouldn't have written "All the FA money"; "most of the FA money"
would have been more apt, I guess. Anyway, Alou is a good player, but
he wasn't a superstar; Leiter didn't have a particularly good season
in '97 (think Joey Hamilton, '98). Yes, they spent a fair amount of
money on free agents that off-season. My point is that they
intelligently built the core of that club over a number of years,
starting all the way back with the expansion draft and amateur draft
in 1992 (Charles Johnson).